Resource Scarlet and Violet RU Indigo Disk Viability Rankings

[#1 Talonflame Enjoyer]

Ditto

Edit: My friend Cold07 also pointed out Zoroark-H is disguised as , wth?

 

[LBN]

New shifts new VR rankings baby! We only gained Mew and lost nobody, so most of this is previous meta discussions. Let's stop johning I got some placings to flame because we have been FAR too generous to alot of things in general.

-> B+ / A-
Genuinely a fraud and I cant believe it. RUPL winrate is dismal, somehow manages to lose to its checks every time, and its main benefit of thrashing defense barely matters when just about anything besides Offense borders on unviable right now. ESPECIALLY after Mew dropped and I'll get to that shit soon. It's too slow, too frail and alot of them is just a letdown. Not bad and can do stuff, but A+ is a genuine meme with its current numbers.

-> A
Mew is not a return I wanted to see. With this thing, playing a balance is straight up a builder throw and I'm unsure if I can be convinced otherwise. NP is dumb, spikes is a solid setter and soft gapdos check in the short term and suicide lead mew is.. ok I guess. Just another pokemon that is a pain in the ass to prep for in a tier where we have like 5 of those. Yaay...

-> B
I've defended them both in the past but its impossible to deny these aren't A- material anymore. CB Flygon was fun as hell but this was before G-Weezing stocks rose through the moon, and competition got stiffer with Rhyperior and Mamoswine competing as non-passive grounds. SR sets are mid, shit is just mid as hell. Usable, decent, but unspectacular in every singular role. Hard B. Reuniclus is just facing stiff competition for the psychic slot with a ton of mons. Cresselia has fast speed, twave utility and lunar dance tricks while checking Mamoswine, Slowbro does the same mamo shtick while being better in gapdos and a ton of grounds. Jirachi is a steel with pivoting, encore utility and a litany of other benefits. Its still solid, but again the stiff competition in a meta where you cannot yield a smidgen of ground or you get run over by broken mons we shoulda done away with ages ago means picking it feels harder than you wish it was.

-> A
Nobody can deny the numbers this thing has been putting in. Checks some of the dumbest mons in the tier all at once while being a defogger is a prize all its own and its usage reflects that. Tspikes sets are surprisingly annoying if you dont pack a poison which some offenses forgo, and its a glue that holds a ton back. Some people will hate on it because it doesn't feel it lasts long enough, and thats because its being tasked with too much stuff on top of Zoroark mindgames and volcanion being broken as shit being spammed as partners to what it checks.

-> B-
Another case of generous rankings to an onerous no-shower. Nobody uses this anywhere near enough to justify B+ and it sure as hell is not good enough to get exempt from this. Necrozma suffers the same stuff as Reuniclus but worse, more awkward and less likely to pull magic off. Not bad, but hard to justify.

-> B
Just use gapdos.

-> B+
Both of these are putting in all-star RUPL showings and running the show almost every time they are brought. SubCM Raikou has been great even with tera blast over scald, and H-Lilli is a strong setup sweeper faster than gapdos at +1, huge value. Not a huge amount to say honestly, good mons.

-> C
B- ditto is this a fucking charity? Knock this shit down from there LMFAO

-> B
If yall can have stuff like Alolan Ninetales and klefki in B rank Gallade can be there too. Absurdly good balance breaker and its offense mu is good too! (with agility). Generally unwallable unless there's a scream tail and its entry points are good enough to where you can get it in to do work. Not much to say but please stop underselling this thing and lumping it in with stuff like overqwil and regidrago. Drop those too btw they are not good like that.

 

[Rarelyme]

Alright we should get a VR update soonish so it's time to throw some thoughts out I can't let LBN alone in here.

I'll start by briefly repeating some noms LBN made above that I find accurate and want to show my support to.
A- to A
Gweezing is a top tier Pokemon, it checks so many key threats (Mamoswine, Krookodile, Salamence and so on) while having good utility and being very easy to build with. I also think it deserves a raise.

A- to B+
This Pokemon suffers immensely from the above mon being very good and while it can be played a gazillion ways it still has too much competition as a Dragon- and as a Ground-type.
As an aside, I don't think Reuniclus has a comparable place in the tier since it does bring some things to the table that other Psychic-types can't aka pressure thanks to a good coverage and status absorption. I would keep it in A-.

to A
Mew is extremely versatile by nature and will always find a good spot in this tier. While it wasn't that popular back when it was here before, it still got traction in tournament setting and did great thanks to several players. Now that we are done overlooking it, Mew will probably become a standard balance killer because draining kiss is absolutely broken while also be viable in very offensive builds.

Now for the more interesting takes:
A- to B+
It's been a while since these two actually did something in this tier because while on paper they can be great, the results are definitely not here. Maushold serves as hazard control in offensive builds and that's usually it since it requires too much support to reliably function outside of these builds so I don't think it belongs in A- alongside tier staples like Mimikyu or Gardevoir. Terrakion is trickier because I feel like it's not being used to its full potential yet. Nonetheless like every other Fighting-type, it suffers from Gapdos being the best Pokemon of the tier and it struggles to beat most of our physical walls such as Slowbro or Hippowdon which makes it quite difficult to justify in a lot of structures. I also don't think Terrakion is a good Choice Scarf user since it doesn't have a spammable move like all of our other top tier scarfer, which means you're stuck using a SD wallbreaker able to kill one mon and then die or a suicide lead. The Choice Band set might be the best way to use it but it's still quite prediction (and luck) reliant to actually do something. I might be a bit harsh here but I think Terrakion could just be better off as a A tiers gatekeeper.

B+ to A-
This Pokemon is bordeline broken, it has Quiver Dance and the type of Zapdos come on now this can't stay below A tiers.

B to A-
I would like to see a big jump for Entei and Gastrodon in this VR. People understood how to use Entei, meaning we stop using Choice Band and let it change moves to actually beat its checks while not being cooked by hazard thank youuu. It is an amazing progress maker against bulky archetypes and has a very valuable priority move against offensive teams + enough bulk to trade (at worst) against some threats like Bisharp and Armarouge. Same for Gastrodon, Spikes support is extremely good especially since Cyclizar has a very hard time using Rapid Spin against it; it also brings so much to any team thanks to its typing AND can actually be a pain to switch into because Ground/Ice coverage is amazing. I think Rocky Helmet Sticky Hold is very good to punish the hell out of top tiers like Krookodile or Gapdos but Water Absorb is also great since it means you check (or wall) other key threats like Volcanion and Basculegion for instance. Get these mons in A tiers please.

Less interesting changes I'd like to see that don't require much explanation:
B+ to B/B-
B to B-
B- to B/B+
B- to B/B+
B- to C+

 

[hedera__helix]

Agree with most of what has been said (rises for Geezing, Ori, Entei, Gastro and drops for Flygon and Mamo).

I'd also like to make the following nominations:

A -> A+
The only mon (other than Gastro) keeping Volc from singlehandedly demolishing the tier, I find myself slapping it onto almost every BO team I build. It has insane versatility, you can choose to run Defog for hazard control, Super Fang + Taunt/Psychic Noise to stall break or annoy Umbreon (with Taunt also improving your matchup into HO and preventing mons from using you as setup fodder after a Draco), U-Turn for pivoting, or even a Specs set with Tera Normal Boomburst and Switcheroo being great tools. I definitely think this mon is more worthy of A+ than Slither Wing and even Jirachi, which leads me to my next nomination...

A+ -> A
In a tier where the two most common mons are Geezing and Gapdos, Slither Wing finds its STABs increasingly less useful. Having awful matchups into the two aforementioned mons + Talon, Fez, Vern, etc. is not ideal and all the Rocky Helmets and Flame Body/Will-O-Wisps all over this meta make its life even harder. While it still has lots of upsides like the most powerful priority in the tier, it's not an A+ mon.

UR -> B
I don't know how this thing is unranked despite having better tour showings than some RU proper mons. Two 120 BP STABs is insane and you can get around Double Shock being only one use per switch with Tera Electric. Its STABs match up amazingly into the tier. A physical attacker being able to 2HKO Geezing and Slowbro is great and the best thing is its not even scared of burns thanks to Natural Cure. Mach Punch is nice priority and it has a very customizable 4th move slot with Seed Bomb to murk unsuspecting Gastros and Quags or the absolutely underexplored Revival Blessing. Here's a replay of it getting all 6 KOs against someone with over 1500 ELO. Rank this mon!

B+ -> A-/A
Probably the most annoying mon to fight in the tier, can singlehandedly win games. How is this in the same rank as Necrozma and Gligar?

 

[Bice]

prospective drops:
A+ --> A/A-
the meta is quite inhospitable to slither wing rn; when the best mon in the tier both checks and competes with you for a team slot, it's rough. it also hates the rise of fire-types like volcanion and entei, flying-types like noivern and salamence, and fire- and flying-types like talonflame. galarian weezing being everywhere also hurts everyone's favorite moth, often forcing it to choose between recovery/utility and heavy slam. like hedera said, it still has its place by virtue of having funny first impression, but its glory days have since passed.
A+ --> A
another ru staple going through a tough time, krookodile's issues mirror that of slither wing's; counters like g-zapdos and g-weezing are better than ever, and the meta is trending more towards fatter structures that krook struggles to break, not helped by the rise of gastrodon and suicune. it's still solid; being a stealth rock setter that's harder to exploit is pretty valuable, but definitely not a+ material.
B+ --> B-
as much fun as i had with a cm necrozma team pre-horoark ban, it was already trending downwards due to both the tier's glut of psychic-types and its tendency to be pressured, especially given its iffy speed, but still had a niche as a bulky, somewhat unpredictable jack-of-all-trades. mew's re-addition to the tier was a massive blow to its viability, as it's another jack-of-all-trades psychic-type that's faster and harder to exploit. necrozma does have a few advantages over mew; namely, a better ability in prism armor and access to reliable recovery, but mew's wider coverage and the fact that it can set up faster makes necrozma much harder to justify.
B+ --> B/B-
webs as a playstyle just isn't very good right now. bisharp and g-zapdos running around everywhere already makes webs a tough sell, but throw in the horoark ban and the rise of dragon dance gyarados/salamence, and you've got an archetype that's really only good for cheesing low ladder. doesn't help that running webs makes it harder for you to use maushold, one of the best HO mons.

prospective rises:
B --> B+
gastrodon loves the rise of volcanion and suicune thanks to storm drain, and in a tier with very few spikes setters as well as scant removal, it shines even brighter. its typing is phenomenal, especially given the tier's lack of (offensive) grass-types, and it can also serve as a blanket check to annoyances like krookodile and magnezone. i largely agree with what rarelyme has to say about gastrodon, but i think it's a wee bit too passive to be a- material. still a pretty good mon, and a lot better than most of the b-ranked shitters
B+ --> A-
oricorio is essentially the second coming of yanmega, trading a bit of offensive prowess for unpredictability and longevity. as seen in rupl, there is a good amount of room for experimentation with tera types due to revelation dance's wacky (read: bs) interactions with terastallization. it can fit pretty well on other offense types that aren't hyper offensive either, so it's not a pure HO cheese mon. rich evans sums it up best
A- --> A
i don't have much to add about g-weezing that others haven't already said. great physical blanket check and a decent role compressor with will-o-wisp and defog. similar to gastrodon it's a bit too passive for A+, but still a very good mon

 

[LBN]

I hear slate starts in a week so I guess I'll do a couple final noms so the VR can be relevant till it gets its next update in fucking June so enjoy

-> C
I know I've dogged on this thing, but after messing around with it, it's quite nice. Cell Slam + Ice punch is quality coverage on its own and with protect you can scout gapdos's click to revenge or scout your tera; and you can respond in kind. Resisting pompom stabs is nice and its not like this thing is particularly frail. Being a BB resist is also nice for HO teams, and with spikes being free as hell with lead mew / lass, this thing can get alot of easy kills. It's nice, and you can't tell me this isn't more useful than like, over half of C rank so.

-> C
Ninetales is not a whole rank higher than Torkoal and Venusaur isn't going to be sitting higher than their setter so down to C they go.

-> UR
Nicheless. "Oh tera blast electric is fire though" yeah why sink tera on a mon who is fighting for a spot on HO with a fuckton of other actually GOOD water types when I can use Feraligatr, Gyarados or even Drednaw instead. Gyara needs no introductions, SD Gatr absolutely mauls Quagsires for HO to take advantage of and Drednaw is literally this but without the tera reliance so why are we using this.

-> C
See above.

-> B
People realized this RUPL that Pert is actually quite nice on some offensive teams and used it nicely. 10 uses and 50% winrate isn't groundbreaking, but I think its quite clear now that Swampert has some gas left in the tank to make it worth jumping above the B- crop. (Of those who should actually be B- to begin with, if ya'll dont raise gallade this slate I'm gonna need that justified)

-> Agreement with above
Self explanitory. All of the noms here have my exact support.. except pawmot B is a crazy overshoot you can B- or C+ though. Shits good but not that good.

-> C+
Rarelyme posted above about Terrakion to B+ and I gotta admit... That was so LENIENT on this guy. Genuinely borders on worthless into HO, its suicide lead shtick is pretty usurped by Mew in value and as a breaker... bro this shit is garbage. "Oh but you haven't peeped SD Tera Grass Blast shit is fire bro" yeah its fire all right. But why would I sink my Tera into something that when I can load one of the other myriad of fighting types who dont have insane tera reliance like yknow, all of them bar Lucario? As an offensive Rock Type, I'd rather use Duskroc at this stage because of Accelrock providing it with Armarouge insurance and having a way better HO and Gapdos MU, plus speed-tieing with stuff like Gengar is valuable. Also hits like a truck so like, where does this leave Terrakion? Outclassed and mediocore on its best days. I know C+ is a colossal drop but this VR is colossally fucking outdated and hasn't seen an update in 2 months so I think this type of nom is acceptable.

-> B-
See above.

-> A
Has Wo-Chien soloing a metric ton of games with the resttalk set finally let people see this is A rank material yet? Who cares if its a tera captain because you can legit tera this turn 1 in some games and legit go unpunished for it because Wo-Chien brings that much to the table as a wall. It's not like its useless without tera either. Legion, Slowbro, and other threats get walled to eternity by this thing. Like what more evidence do we need? As for Gengar, H-Zoro is gone and its free real estate for it. It's movepool is pretty much unending and while it doesn't have the cheese factor its got even better power and has a ton of utility like Encore, Dbond and Twave. Might be a lil premature but I think it'll be A material in like 1-2 weeks of people giving it a shot, lord knows this VR won't get updated till right before shifts in July so hey.

-> A-
SD Gatr seperates itself from competing with Gyara as a water nuke that absolutely mauls anything without a chester or Wo-Chien. The choice between Crunch and Ice punch is up to preference really, though Crunch is better in most cases. Tera Water liquidations just fucking melt anything even without an SD and this type of immediate power is invaluable for HO and offensive structures.

-> A-
Rhyperior I love you but the G-Weez train has knocked you out of A ranks quite convincingly, not much else to really say. Hippowdon I've been quite hard on and have called it B / B+. I'll settle for A- right now because I'm not hugely convinced its down to B+ in quality but it being A rank still is just a joke lmao

 

[Heatranator]

I'll also make the following nominations.

B- -> B/B+
Okay, so others have talked about gastrodon, but the other water grounds deserve a raise (quagsire more then swampert I think, but swampert ain't no slouch). Quagsire is the other water/ground you use if you want to stonewall sweepers easily, which is really nice in the tier where setup sweepers are really popular rn. Its access to toxic also makes it a lot more threatening to switch into, as something like umbreon which can switch into gastrodon no problem has to be cautious around quagsire. It also can diversify its moveset a decent amount if you drop spikes (klefki or chesnaught are good partners), with whirpool, counter and toxic spikes among other options. Swampert meanwhile, is one of offense's best defensive pokemon (as weird as that sounds). Its ability to softcheck mamoswine is amazing as otherwise the playstyle can struggle at times to switch into its moves. Swampert can keep up momentum for its team via flip turn while making good progress with stealth rocks and knock off or roar.

A+ -> A
When I said this opinion in RUcord, I thought that I would be met with heavy backlash. But people said while they disagree with the take, they can at least see it. So I'm here to make an official nomination. Bisharp is still great, but not A+ tier great. It struggles now more then ever with pokemon such as quagsire, chesnaught and umbreon in the tier to at the very least stonewall it. But the other issue is, that its just not consistent at sweeping. Encore jirachi is better then ever and stops a bisharp sweep in its tracks if it ever clicks SD or sucker punch, while sub krookodile has been seeing usage which stuffs the hell out of a sucker punch sweep. Most teams now have multiple answers to it, meaning a surprise tera flying on a ground is a lot less impactful when you probably have a wisp geezing in the back to stop it. I think this deserves a drop.

B- -> C+
Get this fraud ass HO lead outta here. This is not better then lead duskrock at all, and I refuse to believe it. Beating cyclizar is cool, but it is just inferior to other leads such as lycandusk and terrakion, who have either greater power, endeavour or priority.

C -> UR

(I will do these memes until vileplume is actually UR)

 

[FlamPoke]

Wasn't planning on writing this but insomnia is real or something idk. Going to just talk about stuff that belongs in B or better for now.

Drops:

A+ -> A
Krookodile is still a great Scarfer and has upside with both its Taunt sets and more offensive stuff in CB or BU... but it's not a top eight mon and seems to hang out better with the A's. Likewise, Mamoswine is something you should account for in the builder, but it lost its best teammate in Horo and is not putting up performances worthy of its high ranking. Slither Wing is still one of my favorite mons in the tier and can put in work, but it's difficult to justify an A+ at the moment.

A -> A-
Offensive Empoleon is barely an A- threat, but it's a fine ranking for me - I don't rate the defensive sets as high but it works. Rhyperior is an effective rocker and trader, capable of usually going 1:1+ in most matchups, but isn't putting up the type of games worthy of an A mon to me.

A- -> B / B+
What is Flygon doing so high still? It's an okay option at best but generally outclassed by too many Ground- and Dragon-types to warrant this rating (or usage!), so it belongs in B. Gengar benefits from Horo leaving but the current A- is quite high, so B+ is a fine drop for a mon I've used a lot to some success.

B+ -> B/B-
Gligar is a fine B rank mon, still a nice defensive pivot that can fit either hazard and help soft check a lot of stuff, but it's not doing enough to warrant B+. Likewise, I am indifferent to Vaporeon dropping to either of B or B-, but it doesn't belong in B+ when it struggles to check the Water-types it should be checking and can't really Wish pass well.

Rises:

A+ -> S
This thing is still so damn obnoxious to check consistently and is inarguably a top two mon to me. It consistently shreds balance and bulky offense cores, disrupts fat stuff, and trades very well with offense because of how bulky it is.

A -> A+
I mentioned before that Feliburn had convinced me that Specs Noivern was legit - in this meta it still works fine, but Super Fang + Psychic Noise is absurdly powerful and warrants the bump to A+.

A- -> A
Reuniclus has four major sets to me (OTR, LO Recover + 3atk, CM, bulky knock + twave) and they're all so good. This is a top status absorber and is super splashable overall, totally warrants a bump. Likewise, Wo-Chien has seen a ton of great usage lately, with Ghost RestTalk being so obnoxiously effective at being impossible to kill.

B -> A
Okay, maybe a bit generous here, but both Entei and Gastrodon are way too low. Tera Blast Grass Entei is insanely busted at breaking up the good balance and bulky offense cores while offering tremendous upside as a priority cleaner and trader given its bulk. Gastrodon is such a great Spike setter and really effective given it can run either physical or special bulk depending on what you pair it with; both are solid options and this flexibility warrants the grade to me.

B- -> B/B+
These two fat bastards deserve a fat raise for what they do. Chansey fits on a lot of teams well since it can afford to run Healing Wish so gracefully for a plethora of teammates while also checking basically every special attacker. Quagsire, meanwhile, is just anti-bullshit and punishes most setup spam, although it is susceptible to stuff like RestoChesto Gyarados and Salamence and Taunt mons like Fezandipiti and PomPom. Still a great mon though and blanks enough stuff with ease to get a bump.

UR -> B
I don't get how my previous nomination didn't get this to at least be ranked, but surely we've seen this little fella farm enough games to know it's legit. Insane STAB coverage in CC, Double Shock, and Mach Punch to go alongside a ton of options like Knock Off, Revival Blessing, Volt Switch, etc. I unironically think this could go as high as B+ but will settle for a more realistic B if needed.

Other brief mentions:
Porygon-Z, Swampert, and sometimes Rotom-H feel like B mons, but I can't be assed to explain it in detail. Gallade and Chesnaught could go B+ but they both require some care to build and play with. Breloom to B has my support, same for Bellibolt and Infernape. SubLurk might be B+ if you're feeling spicy. Barraskewda and Cresselia could go A-, Feraligatr too but that I'm less passionate about. Galarian Weezing could go A and I wouldn't be opposed, same for Registeel.

 

[Flabeauf]

Hi guys, I wanted to write this post in order to talk about a pokemon that is a bit underrated right now and that I discovered recently.

->C+/B- Nobody is talking about Tsareena at the moment but I think it has a decent niche as an offensive spinner that doesn't really care about spinblock thanks to its great attack and its access to Knock Off. It can be pretty hard to check it if it runs Triple Axel without Weezing Galar, Tera Poison Slowbro or Bisharp. Queenly Majesty paired with High Jump Kick can help Tsareena become a great Bisharp revenge killer or just punish them if they want to set up on you. But its strongest attribute is that in the RarelyUsed metagame there are a lot of Ground-types that let him come in easely without drowback and let it do its thing such as Hippowdon, Gastrodon or Quagsire which can be really good in some teams who need solid hazard control without losing against ghost pokemons or being really passive. However this pokemon is pretty slow and is a mono grass type which can be a bit hard to justify in a team.

 

[Bice]

with the bird banned, let's take an opportunity to look at some other noms:

UR --> C+/B-
the former princess of RU has found new life in the tier; not as a wall, but rather an offensive threat. as Canard's RMT demonstrates, diancie is a rising star on hyper offense, being arguably the archetype's best answer to gapdos. fairy is a busted offensive typing and its excellent coverage combined with the ability to neuter and eliminate faster threats that HO otherwise struggles with (the aforementioned gapdos, dd mence/gyarados, etc.) makes it a surprisingly solid choice. its awkward defensive typing and bad HP combined with the existence of Hoodra prevents it from being a staple, but it's a lot better than a good chunk of the shitters on the VR. speaking of...

B- --> C/UR

yeah this guy is an absolute master of none; even with a strong offensive typing and colorful movepool, its lacking offenses and awkward speed tier means that it'll do tickle damage at best before dying to an unresisted move above 60 power. doesn't help that there's tough competition among fighting types, with mienshao and The Roadrunner making infernape an even tougher sell. i guess special sets could have a tiny niche with the tier's lack of special walls (esp with vacuum wave), but again infernape just doesn't have the muscle to get past big boys like hoodra

B --> B+
a much better fire type with priority, entei hits hard, spreads burn, and picks off cheapo guys like armarouge. i think it was ranked b when people were mainly using banded sets, which eat shit and die upon entering the field if rocks/spikes are up. with the rising popularity of hdb sets entei can actually come in on stuff thanks to its surprisingly solid bulk and force guys like jirachi and registeel out, letting teammates take advantage of the switchin opportunities it creates as well as sacred fire's stupid 50% burn rate. if gastrodon and quagsire weren't rising in popularity, it'd be a solid a-, but the prevalence of said mons (+guys like slowbro and suicune) prevents it from going any higher

A --> A-
the horoark ban really shined a big light on cyclizar's issues; it's passive as all hell and ripe for exploitation by common mons such as bisharp, hoodra, gardevoir, fezandipiti, and just about any tera fairy setup sweeper (mew, armarouge, non-choiced gengar, reuniclus, etc). with cyc's middling natural bulk, it's basically mandated to run assault vest to not get one shot by special attackers like magnezone, which in turn leaves it vulnerable to spikes stack teams. this is in stark contrast to noivern (forces progress with super fang and/or taunt) and geezing (has actual natural bulk), both of whom are also immune to spikes. with hazard removal being absolutely dire this generation (+being a ghost resist that can actually take on gengar and hersculegion), it def has its place in the meta, but not any higher than a-

A --> A-
pretty much what LBN said about it, the only thing i have to add is that oricorio-pompom's ban was a massive boon to it, as it no longer has to worry about taunt variants using it as free setup. as such, i think b+ or lower is too harsh; a- is perfectly fine for it

 

[LBN]

Alright! This time, i bear different news. VR Update time ladies and gentlemen! Proxy posting this time, here are our new updates!

Drops and Bans

-> RUBL

-> A

Drops

A+ -> A

A -> A-

A- -> B-

A- -> B+

A- -> B

B+ -> B

B+ -> C+

B- -> C+

B- -> C

C+ -> C

C -> UR

Rises

A -> A+

(Galar) A- -> A+

A- -> A

B+ -> A-

B -> A

B ->A-

B -> B+

B- -> B

C+ -> B

UR -> B-

UR -> C

Unchanged

 

[Heatranator]

There were some good changes in the last slate, but there is still more to be done.

B- -> C+/C
Lets have the uncomfortable milotic chat. Look, I love milotic, but this mon is dogass. Now, it may not look bad at a first glance, but when you start looking at the rest of the tier, you realise that milotic doesn't really offer anything unique really. The only two things it offers is mirror coat (which any competent player should be playing around when they see it in team preview) and one turn recovery without a dark weakness (which like, slowbro already takes knock offs easily, so this isn't really worth it). Realistically, you are going to choose every other water type before this. Slowbro has regen and more utility options, gastrodon has a ground typing along with hazards, empoleon has a steel typing, knock off and decent coverage if you go offensive, quagsire has toxic, hazards and unaware, vaporeon has wish. Yeah, just every other water outclasses it. I'm leaning more C+ because on its own its fine, but honestly would not care if it is ranked C.

C+ -> B-/B
Idk why this mon is so low, it is not that bad lmfao. I'm going to put my own biases aside (if you don't know, I think this mon is amazing) and explain the qualities it brings to the table (its at least better then dogass milo). Vaporeon is one of the single best checks to suicune in the tier, which for balance teams, can otherwise be an immense struggle since with pressure and CM, it can shut down a lot of counterplay. Vaporeon can haze away the boosts (or roar if you use it on a spikes structure) and pivot to teammates such as cyclizar that can take a scald and then precede to pp stall suicune back. The only suicune set it really fears is tera blast electric variants, but those are a lot less common as of now. It also can wishpass to teammates to keep them healthy, which pokemon such as hoodra and registeel really appreciate, as they can take hits for much longer. Haze in general means that vaporeon can stuff a lot of setup sweepers alongside scald, making it a great catch all anti bullshit mon. Now, it does struggle with volcanion immensly (though just pair it with something like noivern for that tbh, and thats fine), so I'm putting it B-/B as of now, but come on, this is not C+ material. Its not as bad as Deo-D and palossand.

B- -> B/B+
Okay, so flygon at A- was a bit too high ranking, but B- is a criminal under-ranking I think. Flygon can utilise a decent amount of sets, from Dragon Dance, to Choice Scarf, to even Choice Band. However, the main set I will be talking about is the offensive rocker set. With this moveset, Flygon carves out a solid niche in the tier. It can keep up momentum for offensive teams via U-turn, while dealing decent damage with STAB earthquake. It can then choose between either scale shot with loaded dice to act as an cleaner/speed control if needed, while psychic noise can heavily bully walls such as Geezing that it might otherwise struggle with. This can be very nice for more offensively leaning teams as getting any guarenteed damage on geezing is massive for them, specially fighting type breakers such as Gapdos or setup sweepers such as Gyarados. Its not always going to be a standout mon, but it is one that will put in work game to game.

C -> C+
After trying out snow (which cetitan is mandatory on), this is so much better then the C tier crap. The main issue with snow and cetitan in general is that you have to build around two rock weak ice types, but if you make the herculean task of doing this (which tbh is just using espeon and having one or two general good tanks that work on offense, stuff like krook and cyclizar work well for this), then you will get a massive reward. A +6 cetitan is one of the scariest things in the world to face, as simply put not a lot of teams have answers to it. With tera fire, you can set up on both talonflame and geezing, and with ice shard you can keep the sweep going after snow has gone. Its really, really good if you setup, and I think it warrants a small rise.

C -> UR
Look, I'm one of the people who think sun is decent. But scovillain is not it. Yes, it has some of the most powerful attacks under the sun (get it?), but realistically its a rocks weak pokemon if it uses a boosting item (whether that be specs or LO, and the powerful attacks are why you use it in the first place, so if its not OHKO'ing things then its not worthwhile), with defenses that would make paper look tough (this shitter is 2hit ko'd by gastro eq, that is seriously pathetic). But realistically, venusaur or hilligant are better chlorophyll sweepers, and fitting scovillain alongside them is not possible and still creating a functioning team. After setter, chlorophyll sweeper, slither, hazard control, you only have two slots to fit any defensive pokemon or any other sun abuser, which will probably provide more defensive utility. Sure, it does damage, but that is not what sun needs, it needs stability, of which scovillain provides none.
(ignore that it recently won an RUGL game, tbh venu would have done the exact same shit and I stand by that claim)

UR -> C+
Fuck you Canard I ain't nomming it any higher then C+. Cool HO pokemon that helps against gapdos along with good damage output, but has awkward synergies due to TR and a bit of a tera hog due to its typing. Defensive sets... exist ig, but aren't really used since there is a lot of competition.

UR -> C
It is criminal that this mon still isn't ranked. Sableye mainly finds its niche on stall teams, though balance teams can also use it. There, it can utilise priority wisp, encore and recover to be an insanely annoying pokemon for offensive teams to deal with, with bulkier playstyles not enjoying knock off. Its also been featured on a few sample stall teams, which shows that its effectiveness is very much not a recent thing. Just a good all around mon.

 

[Miyami~~~]

B- > D
Yeah.

Also please rank Sableye thanks

 

[Heatranator]

New shifts, new noms.

UR -> B
Blissey is basically chansey, but without the absolute crippling hazard weakness, which to say wasn't a good thing for chansey. A rank above where chansey is ranked rn I think is a fair start, its less bulky on the physical side, but everything else (actual special attack, ability to hold boots, much less weak to knock off) is an upgrade.

A -> A+
Yeah, geezing leaving helped this so much, as you don't have to auto include gunk shot to deal with it. To give you an idea of how much geezing impacted krook, in the krookodile analysis geezing was mentioned 18 times. Thats almost as much as the three rising combined had in other analyses'. So yeah, it was very impactful. Now that last slot can be used for anything else, gunk is still good to slam grasses and spread poison ofc, but other options such as taunt, stone edge, counter, scale shot, bulk up are now a lot more viable.

B+ -> A- / B- -> B
Now, these definetely get better with the three mons that rose, but I think for now, they only go up a subrank. Hilligant could kinda setup on geezing with tera fire, but they do improve with mons that resisted their stab combo going. But honestly, there are still a large amount of issues with these two. Hilligant has to play the lottery every time it attacks and breloom has the defenses of wet paper, along with both being weird defensively, since resisting krook's stab combo is really good, but they also are grasses that do not want to switch directly into the best water in the tier, slowbro, due to fearing a scald burn (toxic heal breloom less so, but cb and stuff are def going to rise) and not wanting to take a psynoise. I would wait a bit before we rise these higher.

B -> B+/A-
Speaking of resisting krook's stab combo, I'm honestly baffled that chesnaught has not risen up at some point. Its one of the better spike setters in the tier, it does amazingly into a lot of annoying stuff like crawdaunt and bisharp, and is a staple on stall teams at this point due to how much it opens up quagsire as it can drop spikes for something like whirlpool, counter or toxic spikes. Yeah, in general, ches is not on the level of other B rankers, its much better then that and the three rises also make it a lot better.

A- -> A
Now that geezing has left, people can stop coping that hippo wasn't good (lets be fr here, hippo was walled by geezing but so many things could setup on geezing that I question why it was A+ tier in the first place). Stop using mono-quake hippo, thats a good set, but needs support. Start running coverage. Stone edge is standard, but I've tried ice fang and even thought about thunder fang to rip through gyara (tera ofc is required). Its just such a good blanket wall, which is heavily appreciated in the tier.

B+ -> B
I need one drop nom, so here it is. Look, I've always been a cresselia hater, but can we be fr that its not B+ tier material at all. This mon is sooooo passive, and before somebody states "but t-wave doesn't make it passive" half the sweepers in the meta do not care about para. Gyarados in general laughs at para attempts, dd facade mence is still very good and with tera it can use cress as setup, cm slowbro just does not care, Iron Defense Registeel does not care etc. Now, how do you get around said passiveness? Well, two ways, trick scarf or cm. Trick scarf I do think is cress's best set, but its mostly an offense only mon as it cannot fit moonlight into its moveset, while cm is just ultimately outclassed by slowbro and reun as cm psychics, with there damage output being so much higher (seriously, the damage output is incredibly pathetic even at +2. Moonblast doesn't even have good odds to OHKO krook, which isn't exactly known for its special hit-taking abilities. Meanwhile specially defensive gastro isn't 2HKO'd by either psyshock or stored power). Now, I will give cress credit, it is extremely good at hit-taking and is the only reliable mamo counter, but even as the biggest mamo hater, I struggle to use this at all. The passiveness is just so detrimental and I think it deserves a drop.

 

[LBN]

New meta shifts are here, and with us finally crystalizing a bit without any suspects currently planned, let's talk VR. There's alot changed with G-Weezing rising, so let's start with some obligatory stuff and move on from there.

New! -> B-

B- -> D
Think this is mostly self-explanatory really. Truthfully I pitched to VR council about a nice slate with literally just these two on it, and an interesting question was brought up. Does chansey do LITERALLY anything that Blissey does not. And actually, the answer is yes! Your armarouge mu is much better with chansey. That being said, that ain't enough not to go to D rank though. While it may be a niche, its such a microscopic niche that is outweighed by all the benefits Blissey having boots and a better speed stat brings you.

A- -> A
Both of these are prime beneficiaries of Weezing rising, especially mence. Lum DD mence being fully untethered is huge for it being a threat, and while they are adaptations (foul play slowbro for instance), this pokemon is absurdly threatening. As for hippo, its benefitting from Mence making a comeback, since its a p decent check to it and some other mons on the come-up I'll get to in other noms but yea, this thing is back.

A -> A+
This thing had like, all of its sets unlocked again with G-Weezing gone man. Scale shot memes, CB memes, Scarf memes, etc. It's one of the biggest winners of the shifts, and sending it back to A+ feels very appropriate. Not even much to say idt many people are gonna disagree w me on this.

B- -> B+
Another mon with like, all its gas back with G-Weez gone, Flygon can properly use its good clicks as a choiced attacker, and doesn't need fuckass psynoise to get stuff done. DD sets are back, CB Sets are back, scarf sets are back. B- was already a bit harsh, so sending this to B+ feels appropriate.

C -> B-
After RULT was entering it's stall era, I was searching for a Solution. A mon able to make the matchup a glorified 100-0 with my brain attached, and yknow what? I found it. Taunt Torn fucking devours fat teams so easily, especially with partnered spikes. Gastrodon spikestack is a style rising in prominence, and not only is taunt torn good on it, it's amazing at bashing those teams too. Getting free knocks and positioning on Steels/Bike is very nice team utility for things like Legion who love seeing a knocked Hoodra among others. Fantastic team player mon and I think this thing is comfortably on the same playing field as the other quality B- crop like Pawmot and Swampert.

UR -> C
I Agree w these.

C -> UR

Let's be real here

B- -> C+
You know sometimes I remember I have to be careful with some of my noms because there are a group of people who will come for my throat at the slander of them. I say this, fully knowing the cult of lunatics on Team Bellibolt will have me taken out back behind a denny's for this affront but it's time we face facts. This shit is not B- material, and these shifts improving the value of just about every ground in the tier most certainly makes that point even more clear. Gapdos fishing is less reliable than simply using Slowbro or hippo or cress, getting a Cyclizar paralyzed isn't the hardest thing in the world with other means, and while it is quite fat and cute fat and cute does not make you get into B- otherwise snorlax is getting on this VR at mach 4. Milotic has sucked for ages it should be grateful I'm not chucking that fraud into C.

B -> B+
Shift made this age like fine wine, I don't think this one is particularly contented.

 

[eifo]

New meta, old favorites:

A+ -> S
Slowbro is and has always been the best mon in the tier. Defensively, its bulk, typing, and ability lets it check a plethora of important threats time and time again. Offensively, it can spread status with scald and thunder wave, function as a win condition with calm mind, or force progress by setting up future sight for its partners. Furthermore, thanks to regen recovery it is not as easily forced to recover as other mons, which has the dual benefit of enabling its user to play it more proactively than other defensive mons while also not being anywhere near as prone to getting PP stalled out of recover PP in longer games. Due to these qualities, Slowbro is the most splashable mon in the tier. You could fit it on almost any given team, and at almost any given point in the building process, with the exception of HO. Moreover, it performs consistently in any given match up. There just isn't such a thing as a bad match up with Slowbro. It is always useful. I can't fathom what more anyone would want out of an S-rank mon.

A -> A+
I love using Mamo. It has two immensely valuable properties. First, it can break anything with the combination of eq/crash/knock (doing so is especially easy in conjunction with future sight Bro). Second, its priority is a lifesaver into set-up mons. I can't count the amount of times where it has saved me versus a weakened Bish, Arma, Gyara, Hilligant, Maus, Mimi, Entei, Lycan, or what have you. It also helps that it provides a volt immune, and that it has a decent speed tier and alright natural bulk, as this grants it many more opportunities to break than, say, a Crawdaunt, but this is more of an added benefit than a primary reason for using it imo.

A -> A+
Another personal fav of mine. Its bulk enables it to trade and check all sorts of stuff, while it makes progress offensively by clicking Draco and Knocking all the good Draco resists (Rachi, Regi, Empo). I'm especially fond of draco/knock/protect - again this has wonderful synergy with future sight Bro - since protect grants it the option of scouting out choiced moves and gaining lefties recovery. Take your pick regarding fourth move - tbolt (empo/cune/bro), eq (empo/zone), heavy slam (umb, garde, mimi, bee), and acid spray (draco kos practically all non-resists at -2) are all good on their own terms - but just draco and knock alone is oftentimes sufficient.

A+ -> A
I don't like Noivern as much as the A+ mons. Specs is good but prediction reliant and weak to sr. Defog loses to most rockers 1v1 and needs to be wary of clicking it into Gap/Empo (granted, it's risky to hard Gap on Vern and you could build your team such that it has answers for +2 Empo). Offensive pivot sets feel alright to me but not amazing. It is certainly valuable to be faster than all non-scarfers, and having STAB Draco and U-turn will always be valuable, but I don't value it as highly as a Volc, Bish, Mamo, or Goodra.

A -> A+
I agree, Geezing leaving makes all its offensive sets better. No point in regurgitating the same arguments outlined above, but I would add that it's a great partner for future sigth Bro.

A- -> A
I don't think this mon should have dropped to A- to begin with. I've always been fond off Hippo balance. But I don't agree that Geezing rising makes any difference for it. Mons like Flygon, Pads Gap, Azelf, Noivern are more annoying for it than Geezing imo since they wall mono quake hippo and threaten to make progress, whereas Geezing just sat there. You could always hard from your Hippo to Bro or whatever and be fine versus Geezing. Moreover, if you have a future sight set by Bro, Hippo can actually force progress either with edgequake or by phazing the opponent out as they hard into, say, their own Bro to absorb future sight + eq. Finally, Geezing was a neat partner to have alongside Hippo, so I don't think it leaving affects Hippo all too much.

B- -> B+/A-
Speaking of Flygon, this mon has always been underrated imo - special and mixed sets were underexplored and good in the Geezing meta - but now it should be obvious that the rank it has is too low. With Geezing and Mence leaving, DD Flygon got a major upgrade, in that it no longer needs to run DD Tera Blast Steel for Geezing and that it lost a major source of competition in DD Mence. I would expect DD Scale Shot sets, in particular, to see more usage.

B -> B+
Benefits from both Geezing and Mence leaving. Cute option.

B -> B+
Muk is great. You just sit there and spam knock rest talk haze, walling all sorts of stuff while removing items and spreading items. I've seen some mentions of protect Muk on discord but I have not found myself in a position where I have had the luxury of using it since it generally needs rest to absorb scalds and sit on mons like Bro and Cune. Anyway, it's a defensive mon which can check a bunch of special attackers, function as a status absorber, and make progress by brainlessly clicking poison touch knock. Would highly recommend using it together with future sight Bro, in particular (notice how everything synergizes with future sight bro btw).

C -> B
Let's raise this mon in the VR. Dumping it into UR doesn't make sense. Offensively, it's decent at making progress with gunk, cc, and sd, whereas sucker is valuable to revenge set up stuff or to clean after an sd (provided things have been sufficiently weakened). Defensively, its ability enables it to function as a vincune counter and beam cune check, and it fully walls CM Bro if tera dark. I've found myself building lots of HO and BO teams with this mon, usually with balloon as the item. Try it, it's cool!

-> C
I would only consider using either of these on stall and I don't consider stall to be particularly good (although it is viable). Accordingly, I see no reason for either of these to be in the B ranks. I think it's reasonable to prefer Blissey over Chansey given that HDB is a useful tool for preventing chip but I also think the additional bulk on Chansey is sufficient to give it a niche. Staving off Armarouge is quite important imo and it can trade 1v1 vs a surprising amount of physical attackers, especially post-tera, if need be. The difference in bulk is noticable into mons like Gapdos, Mamo, Lycan, Crawdaunt, Gatr, Azelf/Mew (psyshock), and DD Necrozma, to name a few. You obviously don't want to use Chansey to trade versus these mons unless you're forced to, nor do you want to use the tera unless it's absolutely necessary, but I think it's useful to have the opportunitity to do so.

UR -> C
Diancie is cool, especially into HO. Offensive trick room with meteor beam is a pretty cool mon both for making progress and for cleaning in the end game. It's difficult to build around but in battle it tends to perform decently. Worthy of being ranked.

I don't have any thoughts on anything else atm. Obviously, what I care the most about is the high ranked mons, hence why I mentioned them first.

 

[LBN]

yay eifo posted so im not double posting cuz i got more takes I haven't made yet!

-> UR
Get all of these waters off the VR bro. I said to send milotic to C+ and yknow what? I WAS SO LENIENT. Shit doesn't do ass, its a mediocore do-nothing blob that will maybe check a volcanion once and leave you with not impression but questions why you arent using Gastrodon instead the moment you see a magnezone. Shit sucks im sorry. Kingdra and cloyster haven't made tour appearances in eons and Vaporeon is in the same camp. I don't know why we've let milotic in particular stink up the joint in B- of all tiers for this long but can we please be serious and get these off they arent good and havent been good for awhile if ever.

-> A-/B+
This thing isn't like, bad but it just lacks the usage for A rank right now. Gastrodon and Volcanion pmuch entirely destroy any chances of crocune seeing good use, and its slower gameplay is hard to make work in a tier thats so brutally punishing to defense but sucky into offense. Not bad, but this isn't the meta for it. (BAN VOLCANION)

-> B-
Both of these two have been meh in both usage and performance for awhile. I actually like both, and I think more teams should try them out. But at the same time, neither of their best showings can be called B caliber to me. Their use as support options for HO is a joke so offensive sets are your only gig and im sorry these two are not on the same level as Gallade and shit.

-> C
Rain hasn't been good for a long time and I don't think anybody is arguing otherwise. Until Volcanion is good and Gastrodon stops being borderline forced on teams at times Rain will still be ass. When its gone I'll check back in on Rain and give it its dues but until then yea no they stink.

-> B+
Thought i said this one in my previous post but honestly G-Weezing ban made Gligar feel 20x better to use. Shits nice for offense, full vouch. Soft checks a ton and gives the day its best 7/10 and tells you to stfu if you ask for anything more.