Resource Scarlet and Violet RU Indigo Disk Viability Rankings

[TheTraininator]

This demonstrates the reason why Yanmega is very unlikely to ever get a VR above A-. It can almost exclusively be used on HO, meaning it is only splashable on HO. The only reason why Yanmega is now rising in VR and actually acquiring the A- is because of how well HO (and Yanmega on HO structures) performs in the current meta.

This logic is significantly more understandable, and I wanted to thank you for the transparency on the matter. However, while this may come down to a matter of tiering philosophy, if HO itself is the best playstyle in the tier or at least one of to the point where most people are in agreement multiple suspects will be required to adequately nerf it, does being exclusive to that playstyle really warrant being as low as A- if it is a staple on that aforementioned playstyle? As it stands, if HO is as good right now as the RU playerbase and council has been describing it as, I personally think a mid A rank at the very least is potentially warranted for Yanmega in this current stage of the meta, even if A+ and S would almost certainly be out of the question due to its lack of splashability.

 

[Juanardo23]

I would like to address the concerns raised about the placement of Yanmega in the VR.
The VR council voted as follows for Yanmega: 3 B+, 2 A-, 2 A, 1 B. However, the B was by mistake and was actually meant to be B+. This will be corrected soon and bumps up Yanmega to A-.

Reading some of the comments above gives me the impression that not everyone fully understands what VR stands for. VR is based on two main points:
1. How easy is it to build with a pokemon (aka how splashable is it). The easier a mon is to fit into a team the higher its VR. The more support a pokemon needs the lower its VR.
2. How well the pokemon (and thus also the teamstyles) performs. The better the pokemon performs, the higher its VR should be.

The first point seems to be forgotten by some people.

Whether a pokemon is broken does not have to mean it has high VR (as a side note the council almost
unanimously thinks yanmega does not deserve a suspect, but that is besides the point). A broken mon usually performs well, but even that doesn't have to be the case. This is thus only touching on half of the second part of VR.

I think the comparison with maushold is an excellent example to demonstrate VR consisting of two parts (eventhough they are in the same tier now). Again, firstly a pokemon having "less push for a suspect" (I don't think that's true, but not relevant in this case) is completely unrelated to VR. Secondly, Yanmega and Maushold are both mostly seen on HO. However, Maushold can work outside of HO easier than Yanmega, as it provides more utility to BOs in a ghost immune and hazard control. For that reason, you see Maushold more often on BO structures than Yanmega. Personally, I have put Maushold on BOs multiple times, whereas I have never done that with Yanmega.

This demonstrates the reason why Yanmega is very unlikely to ever get a VR above A-. It can almost exclusively be used on HO, meaning it is only splashable on HO. The only reason why Yanmega is now rising in VR and actually acquiring the A- is because of how well HO (and Yanmega on HO structures) performs in the current meta.

Absolutely non sense, you can splash Yanmega in every team and open with him and you loose a pokemon 100% if you dont run Goodra / Empoleon / Chansey / Rotom Heat.

And imagine that logic has sense (which it does not) why is same tier as Flygon? What are flygon traits?

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 132-156 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 77.7% chance to 3HKO

 

[Heatranator]

Absolutely non sense, you can splash Yanmega in every team and open with him and you loose a pokemon 100% if you dont run Goodra / Empoleon / Chansey / Rotom Heat.

While I do think Yanmega should be ranked higher and is broken, this is simply untrue. Leading yanmega is not going to force a mon to faint as yanmega is more of a cleaner, it can certainly weaken an enemy team for its teammates to sweep, but it isn't going to be picking up ko's from full health. Something like t-wave thundy is either going to be able to t-wave then volt switch on it, or if it tera's, g-knot it. As even 2 bug buzzes are not going to be able to kill it from full. So if even a not particularly bulky mon can take it on 1v1, then idk what yanmega will be doing to any 'bulky' mon that is at full health. Another example is horoark, as it can take one bug buzz (make its illusion something that doesn't like bug buzz, and you can still take one air slash if you don't get flinched) and ko back with hyper voice. So these two frail offensive mons can take on yanmega, and still live either one or two hits. And multiple mons that it COULD beat (think fezandipiti and such), it has to tera against, which isn't a good thing to do early on.
And also, yanmega is not splashable on every team. It's basically only on HO teams and potentially some BO and balance teams, though it is very rare and hard to fit on those due to its quad rocks weakness and reliance on tera to fully destroy a team. So calling it 'splashable' is a huge exaggeration, if not a false statement.

And imagine that logic has sense (which it does not) why is same tier as Flygon? What are flygon traits?

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 132-156 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 77.7% chance to 3HKO

Honestly, that ain't half bad damage. You can do 30% with a single attack to one of the most physically bulky mons in the tier, which means it has to keep itself pretty healthy (and wtf is hippowdon doing back to flygon. Ice fang is a meme move that nobody is using on it). And flygon can simply just u-turn as hippo switches in, doing decent chip damage and getting in a teammate to threaten hippowdon out.
Flygon is deserving of its B+ rank, it can use any of dd, band, scarf, offensive rocker and some people even are trying out special flygon (though I personally think its mediocre as a special attacker). It has a wide variety of useful moves in rocks, u-turn, first impression and psychic noise (good luck healing off flygon's damage). It does have walls, and those walls are common, but they are not insurmountable tasks to acheive, these mons have to wall many different mons.

 

[Juanardo23]

While I do think Yanmega should be ranked higher and is broken, this is simply untrue. Leading yanmega is not going to force a mon to faint as yanmega is more of a cleaner, it can certainly weaken an enemy team for its teammates to sweep, but it isn't going to be picking up ko's from full health. Something like t-wave thundy is either going to be able to t-wave then volt switch on it, or if it tera's, g-knot it. As even 2 bug buzzes are not going to be able to kill it from full. So if even a not particularly bulky mon can take it on 1v1, then idk what yanmega will be doing to any 'bulky' mon that is at full health. Another example is horoark, as it can take one bug buzz (make its illusion something that doesn't like bug buzz, and you can still take one air slash if you don't get flinched) and ko back with hyper voice. So these two frail offensive mons can take on yanmega, and still live either one or two hits. And multiple mons that it COULD beat (think fezandipiti and such), it has to tera against, which isn't a good thing to do early on.
And also, yanmega is not splashable on every team. It's basically only on HO teams and potentially some BO and balance teams, though it is very rare and hard to fit on those due to its quad rocks weakness and reliance on tera to fully destroy a team. So calling it 'splashable' is a huge exaggeration, if not a false statement.

Honestly, that ain't half bad damage. You can do 30% with a single attack to one of the most physically bulky mons in the tier, which means it has to keep itself pretty healthy (and wtf is hippowdon doing back to flygon. Ice fang is a meme move that nobody is using on it). And flygon can simply just u-turn as hippo switches in, doing decent chip damage and getting in a teammate to threaten hippowdon out.
Flygon is deserving of its B+ rank, it can use any of dd, band, scarf, offensive rocker and some people even are trying out special flygon (though I personally think its mediocre as a special attacker). It has a wide variety of useful moves in rocks, u-turn, first impression and psychic noise (good luck healing off flygon's damage). It does have walls, and those walls are common, but they are not insurmountable tasks to acheive, these mons have to wall many different mons.

Get rocks, slack off all the damage and proceed to go to your ground inmunity. U-turn damages you more with helmet than what you do lol

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 62-73 (14.7 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO




Its you who rated flygon B+ tier or what? Like all the guys in C tier are equal if not better than that shit.

For the Yanmega stuff I will not answer non sense comments, within offensive pokemons there is no such splasheable term or no, thats why actually HO works, offensive cores does not exist, only defensive. They may exist if there are so many defensive alternatives, but Yanmega, in this tier, only looses vs Empoleon (not if tera), Rotom heat (nobody uses it) and AV Goodra (Normal one looses one vs one)

 

[LBN]

EDIT: People in 1200 ELO and people that copy my teams for ladder and even RU Circuit reacting to my message.
Before reacting please tell me where I am wrong while I see how you get destroyed by Yanmega and Flygon does nothing in every match he is in.

yknow what, i'll bite. Ik people (myself included) have haha'd the fck outta you specifically for awhile now for having takes of... questionable quality, and that shit is frankly not actually helpful. So I'll try and explain flygon and yanmega here, aswell as a couple others. Mainly Flygon, as I've been using it quite a bit, and understand quite well how you'd use it.

Firstly, the hippowdon argument is a bit overblown. Sure, Flygon does not beat hippowdon on a blank slate, but that's only the case in isolation. I will mainly be talking about CB Flygon and Offensive SR Flygon, as I think those are the 2 best sets, with DD trailing by a bit. With minor support, whether through spikes, rocks, tspikes, status or just anything that applies a teensy bit of pressure on Hippo, Flygon can break past it. And even beyond that, hippo will be burning 1-2 slacks each time it tries to scout, which is not something it can keep doing for that long, and if the flygon user u-turns into a partner breaker like Specs Infernape, Armarouge, Specs H-Goodra, LO Reuniclus, basically anything that pressures the combination of Hippo/G-Weezing fits the bill. Flygon lets nutty breakers get infront of their favorite prey quite often, while also providing utility like First Impression, Stealth rocks, and a ground/volt immunity of your own, which is quite valuable role-compression. This multi-faceted game plan is why it's ranked B+.

But what if you don't run into Hippowdon/G-Weezing/Slowbro/Chesnaught or w/e, and instead run into say, Empoleon teams that use pokemon like Wo-chien to check grounds instead? Well, this is just flygon food, and you will appreciate it blasting the team open quite nicely. Also you'd actually be surprised how many teams either dont have a ground immunity, rely on hippowdon as their sole way to check grounds, or lose their flying type early whether by using the funny type change mechanic, or by getting it killed off early. These scenarios are all ones where Flygon feasts upon, and it's almost always a game-to-game performer when I've used it. Don't try to think of it as a solo artist, treat it like an enabler for your nukes, then you'll see the appeal. It's just underexplored right now, but a lot of lower tiered mons are seeing more common tour success from things like Grand slam (like registeel, umbreon, wo-chien etc)

As for Yanmega, I think A- is acceptable and the reasoning franklin gave is sound. If you wish to showcase to the people examples of Yanmega doing its shit on non-HO teams, be my guest, it pushes my narrative all the same. But the other A rank HO goons (blastoise, revavroom, armarouge), have seen use on squads outside of the HO archetype, unlike Yanmega. That's not to say it can't work, I'm sure it can but as of right now it has yet to be seen. If you want to push for A rank based on it's performance within HO you're well within your reason to, but the difference between A and A- isn't that big all things considered. A lot of time I post on VR threads because I've had multiple times where an outdated VR has almost / has bitten me in the ass when I find out the ADV UU VR has 2 vrs and one of them has current C+ ranker Hypno at A+ on the old one, and it pushes my agenda for making NU lose as many pokemon as physically possible = DDDD

That being said, just so this isn't a major yapfest, lemme ammends one of my noms from earlier.

UR -> C-
YOU ARE GARBAGE.

 

[Miyami~~~]

C+ > B- / B
It's not gonna be Blastoise anytime soon (or probably ever unless someone goes back in time to give it bullet seed), but toise leaving means there's suddenly a huge vacuum for shell smash mons that cloyster is the most adequate at fulfilling. Here's the set:

The Clam God

bivalverely (Cloyster) @ White Herb / Focus Sash / Chople Berry?
Ability: Skill Link
Tera Type: Rock / Electric / Grass / Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Drill Run
- Rock Blast / Tera Blast / Hydro Pump

Cloyster is actually fairly customizable for a C+ rank pokemon, but there are some tradeoffs involved. I think you can probably get away with White Herb since Cloyster's physical bulk is massive, but if your team is really really good at keeping hazards off I also understand sash. Chople at least lets Gapdos and FO Conk not revenge you if you're above 60 or so, so it can be another option worth considering since that and Accelerock are the only priority a cloyster above half health is really afraid of. There is unfortunately a tradeoff between adamant and jolly. Cloyster isn't that much weaker than Blastoise on paper but the physical bulk of the tier is generally a fair bit higher than the special bulk and it can't be knocked into Torrent range, but without Jolly you are outsped by scarf 100s like Jirachi and the above mentioned Gapdos. Cloyster at least inherited one of Blastoise's best traits of being able to get away without Tera Blast, which naturally makes it a very good partner for Yanmega since they both invite in steel types but Cloyster doesn't need to tera to heavily dent them. Drill Run is mandatory in this meta, but you have a decent amount of options for your 4th move. I like Tera Rock Rock Blast the most if you can't get away with Tera Blast. Tera Rock grants the most amount of resistances to priority that Cloyster does not already have and +2 STAB Rock Blast is a pretty decent option to chunk the bulky waters aiming to switch in on you. You cap out at 76 vs Slowbro and 91 vs Vaporeon/Suicune, all of which are about as likely to not run boots as they are to have them, and icicle spear > tera rock rock blast is a clean KO on them both. If you don't have another Tera Blast, adamant Cloyster has a positive roll to OHKO Vaporeon, Suicune, and Milotic and does upwards of 90 to Slowbro with TBlast Electric/Grass, letting it beat its checks that way. Tera Grass is mostly just here to beat unaware Quagsire but is otherwise a little worse than Tera Electric since you're now weak to first impression. Hydro Pump is also an option to beat down like, tera steel geezing or the car with an air balloon up or something but I'm not sure I'd really recommend it in this exact meta. If you are going to use it you can even use a Naive nature since your SpD sucks anyways and not being -SpA lets you garauntee an OHKO on the car after rocks. Lastly, it's worth noting that without Tera Ground, Drill Run only does about 75 to all the major non-zone/car steels of the tier, which does really suck and just kind of gives you more incentive to use it as a midgame breaker for Yanmega since their major checks overlap pretty significantly.

Cloyster slots very well on ye olde Yanmega/Car/Mimikkyu teams since they all largely prey on the same few things being removed and Cloy's native access to drill run lets it work as your mid-game sweeper, using its excellent physical bulk to take setup opportunities that even Blastoise couldn't (although it goes without saying Blastoise usually got more opportunities) and and take kills/chip down bulky waters or steels for Yanmega in the back or something similar. Here's some replays:

Spoiler

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2182182786 - Cloyster takes <50 from Necrozma photon geyser, sets up, and sweeps vs a pretty slow team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2182210900-icvthp8gkwyyv6b5qoijb6sk9kik05tpw - Cloyster and Mimikkyu bail me out of a badly played early game. Notably, Cloyster cleans up half my opponent's team even while burned and takes about 30 from a Sacred Fire after tera. If I didn't lose the coin flip it would've been even more over...

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2182290673 - I win the Knock Off/Dragon Tail 50/50 and Cloyster sweeps 5 mons. The Tera Rock Rock Blast comes in handy and lets it very comfortably take Entei's (CB?) Tera Normal Espeed even at -1.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2182392322 - Cloyster takes advantage of a passive Noivern set to tera and boost, kills Jirachi on the switch, then forces a tera and a sac on noivern so my opponent didn't get full swept by it with 3 spikes up. Cloyster doesn't actually sweep but it prevents my opponent from being able to respond to Yanmega at all so it does effectively end the game on its own.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2184087227-r1yme10kd120bejxp33i71wiqey67bmpw - got greedy on a passive slowbro set and it paid off. Even at -1 def, Cloyster lives a super effective Iron Head from spd Rachi into a Tera Normal Espeed from Entei.

That's my only real "big" nom for this batch but here's a bunch of other small ones

B+ > B
Rain's just kind of been trending downward for a bit (someone please tell ladder this...) it's kind of just a collateral of every team packing a bunch of priority and/or hippo right now for one reason or another, all of which give you very favourable rain mus too

B > B-
This mon is either a slower Gyarados with worse coverage that is stronger at exactly +1, or a faster Crawdaunt with worse coverage and a much weaker Aqua Jet, neither of which really put it in the same rank as those two imo.

B > lower
I don't really have words for this one psychic terrain really just isn't it even with Armarouge in the tier, I'm kind of surprised it was ranked this high at all.

B > A-
I'm kind of surprised it wasn't already there Chesnaught has been that guy for like a month now. Please fix before UU steals it thanks

B > B-/C+
Use Terrakion. It sucks being the HO lead that loses to all other HO leads except maybe Mew if you choose to X-Scissor it turn 1.

C > C+
With Blastoise gone, HO is likely to coalesce around Yanmega or Armarouge as a breaker, both of which have a much more difficult time breaking Chansey than mixed Toise did without getting obscenely lucky (Yanmega) or taking a paralysis and losing all your value (Armarouge). This might make Chansey more worthwhile? (Although I kind of thought it was underranked anyways)

C > UR
The second post in this thread is me nomming Floatzel up from C and now here I am nomming it off. I'm sorry Floatzel, you're still the #1 Swift Swimmer in my heart...

C > UR
I don't have much to say about any of these they just all kind of suck or have niches so minor it's not enough to justify their ranking compared to things that just do their job better.

EDIT: UR > C
This is also a better HO lead than Kleavor!

and then some other noms I agree with but don't wanna write about:

Spoiler

B- > B/B+
UR > C
C > Higher
B > B+
UR > C
C+ > B-

 

[fluff!!]

from B to B+/A-

Gligar keeps climbing in popularity thanks to its incredible role compression for BO teams. Ground immunity, Electric immunity, Fighting resistance, Okidogi switch-in, Rocks or Spikes setter, Toxic, U-turn for momentum and to not let Taunt/Sub mons sit on you, and all around incredible physical bulk is simply a brilliant combination of traits. It can even replace Hippowdon in balance squads should you carry a Wish passer like Umbreon or Vaporeon. It should at the very least be at the same rank as Flygon.


from B to C+/C

who let bro in here?


from B to B-

This mon is so flawed it's not even funny. It straight up requires Tera to hope to do anything to Fairies, but then if it's Choice it still has to 50/50 every click even after Tera, and it can't enter the field by itself ever because of its shaky defensive profile. It can leave the Fairies to its teammates, but then you have to build your entire team around abusing Geezing, Gardevoir and Fezan every way possible to kill it so Regidrago can finally click buttons, making Regidrago one of the least splashable mons in the tier, and, simply put, makes your team weaker against everything else. Oh and it probably doesn't work if there is one (1) Tera Fairy mon in the opponent's team. Steels also force 50/50s between clicking a Dragon move or Earth Power. Scale Shot sets have an even harder time against Weezing, and if I HAVE to Tera to do anything, I'm sorry but I'll just play another setup sweeper. I don't want to drop it too low, because yes, it can have its moments of glory, but they're so rare and it takes so much support and is so matchup fishy that I have to advocate for a drop.


from B to B-

Outclassed by Flygon and Gligar by a mile and a half. No ground or fighting resistance is sad, it has no utility outside of rocks, and it's not even that bulky when all of our breakers just hit way too hard for Swampert. I don't think it fits in the B rank.

 

[Heatranator]

With blastoise banned, the meta will likely shift quite a bit, so I've got a few noms

UR -> C
Lycanroc is probably the ultimate HO lead, as its able to take on and taunt every other HO lead, which is massive. It does the usual lead things, gets up rocks, taunts things and dies, but its good. Rock blast can beat froslass and kleavor leads (sometimes) and cc can decimate terrakion leads and surprise ko cyclizar that thinks it can spin. Good mon, should be ranked.

Keep C+
Below my reasoning on why cloyster should stay C+ rank (its long)

Cloyster rant

I know this is def going to be a hot take, but cloyster doesn't need to rise, its good where it is. In the blastoise meta, cloyster was honestly an UR mon, it was truely horrible. Now, its got a niche as a shell smasher where the options are mid. However, I still think this thing is bad. It has a horrible special defense, which means any strong special hit is decimating it (specially defensive empoleon's surf does 40% to it minimum, which is not a strong hit.... This also means cloyster can't set up on empoleon, so good luck with that). Seriously, just look at any decently strong special attacker, and they can either OHKO it or do 80% min. This requires it to have focus sash in order to get a smash off reliably, which means it NEEDS to have hazards off to function. Not even rocks, it also needs spikes to be off, which is going to be tough. Yanmega can get by with rocks up, so a mon that is even more intensive in order to keep hazards off at all times is going to be rough on maus and the HO lead. But it doesn't end there. Cloyster is slow, even after a smash. If it goes adamant, which it needs to utilise its one good trait which is its power, then is slower then so much. 100 speed scarfers, like scarf gapdos, will outspeed it, which is not a high benchmark to be outsped by, meaning unless they are using a very slow scarfer, its going to be revenge killed. Oh, also its good physical defense is not nearly as good due to its defensive typing being mid, as fighting moves, which are common in this meta, mean its prob going to be OHKO'ing it. Finally, it doesn't even have the best coverage. It needs to use tera electric blast in order to hit the bulky water types that can take a hit and respond back (volcanion can take one drill run from full, and even with tera blast electric, slowbro can take one hit from full and ohko it back) and this is really restrictive.
Now yes, cloyster can do well in some matchups. If you do the herculean task of always keeping rocks off and the opponent somehow doesn't have priority or a moderately fast scarfer, then yes, cloyster can sweep teams. However, it simply has too many flaws and needs too much to go right for it to sweep, so I can't say its better then other niche HO sweepers like oricorio pom pom or toxtricity.

A -> UR
(thank god this thing was banned)

B -> C+/C
Come on, psychic terrain is ass, everybody knows it. Only armarouge and maushold are real threats on psy terrain, and they work better on other teams. I remember LBN said "half the battle with psychic terrain is beating armarouge" and that is hella true. Hitmonlee is sweeping 1/10th of a blue moon, and that's being generous. I know there are people out there who will defend its viability to the moon and back, but come on, its not good. It's fringe, and honestly if g-terrain is going to be unranked, then this style should realistically be too. But that's prob too much for people to handle, so C+ or C is where it should go.

A- -> A
Potentially a hot take, but I think gapdos should rise. It is THE premier scarfer in the meta, scarf okidogi and jirachi are good, but prefer other sets a lot as well, while gapdos only really has band and a few niche sets. Gardevoir, gengar and mienshao are good also, but honestly are nowhere compared to gapdos. And with this scarf, gapdos is devestating. Sometimes the only way that people can defend against it is to hope it can ko itself with recoil, which isn't very good as you commonly have to sack at least one mon to it, leaving huge gaps in the defensive backbones of teams that its teammates can exploit. It can reliably use knock off into its counters such as hippo and slowbro, giving itself progress that not a whole lot of scarfers are able to do without either dying with healing wish or tricking away there scarf (I believe only okidogi and mienshao can do that as well). It can also use u-turn in order to pivot on its switchins to get its teammates into positions they can fire off a powerful attack (only mienshao can do both of these things). It doesn't flounder into geezing that other physical scarfers do by just using its stab move, as geezing is going to be ko'd by two brave bird's if its below 80% which is hardly a large deal (okidogi has to lock into either gunk shot, which geezing can pain split or wisp against, or psychic fangs, which is exploitable and not a great move overall in terms of spammability).

C -> C+/B-
I know that rotom mow got ranked C because it just got ranked, but let's rise it up. Rotom mow is a great alternative to rotom heat, with a few better traits. Firstly, it is MUCH better against ground types due to leaf storm ohko'ing most of them and dealing with the water/ground types, which is something that stonewalls rotom heat. Secondly, it doesn't fear knock off that its counterpart does, as its neutral to rocks, meaning other items like scarf are much more suited to it as it doesn't require too much hazard control. These are honestly good traits for something that can either cripple the enemy with trick, wisp or t-wave, have good longevity with pain split, or go offensive with nasty plot. A good mon that should rise.

Also to respond to some noms I disagree with (though nothing against the people who nommed them ofc)

Nom disagreements

Toxtricity's main niche is that of a shift gear user, and it honestly has a good place on HO as a stallbreaker. With drain punch, it can beat the specially defensive mons such as chansey while dealing big damage with overdrive and boomburst to physically defensive mon. 'Technically' Cloyster can do this, but as stated before, it needs all the coverage it needs, so hydro will hurt it in every other matchup. Using drain punch doesn't hurt toxtricity outside of the palo matchup and it helps it against hoodra, as it will do some good damage to it before dying. Even outside of this, it can usually trade 1v1 in other matchups, or sweep if it gets lucky. Not a bad mon, though it prob should drop to C rank as its a bit too niche for C+.

Honestly, hippowdon is still pretty amazing. Yes, it does struggle with flying types and geezing and usually lets them in for free, but those are dealable. Flying types fold to stone edge, which if you put rocks on something else (which isn't hard, we have lots of non ground stealth rockers that are good) is prob the second option and geezing can be exploited by fire types to hell and back (even entei, which is a physical attacker, something geezing is meant to help against). You can even tech heavy slam if you really want, which does a good chunk to geezing. These honestly are not overwhelming hurdles to overcome, and if you do this, you have a mon that is amazing. Hippo can take on so much of the meta, as basically any physical attacker is going to not do a whole lot to it, and can even in a pinch take on some special attackers (especially with tera) and be offensively threatening with even just e-quake. Deserves A rank, as while it can be exploited, it gives back tenfold if those drawbacks are taken care of (and these are not hard to overcome).

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

Rises

A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A+
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
UR -> B-
UR -> C+

drops

A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C -> UR

We won't be doing reasonings this time but in case you have any questions, we would gladly answer them in here or #vr-discussion on RU server!

 

[N_Mareanie]

why did h-goodra rise to A+?

 

[fluff!!]

why did h-goodra rise to A+?

If I had to guess, comes in on the 30 mons it has a free in against because 150 base spdef + steel, clicks specs Draco Meteor, something dies. Fairies aren't an answer because flash Cannon, steels get fire blasted. Pairing super well with our wish passers is the icing on the cake.

 

[Ampha]

why did h-goodra rise to A+?

Being honest here, Goodra should already have been higher when it first dropped, its a pretty splashable mon on every sense, Specs is very tough to switch because of STABs alone but Flamethrower/tbolt make it even more destructive, while it can also opt for bulkier sets because typing is just so good, it has great utility tools in Dragon tail, Knock off and even Assault vest in some cases, while it also matches very well into the meta overall

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

What's the main advantage "Masculegion" has over its female counterpart? I'm assuming its main use case is on rain but beyond that what's the advantage it has over the other options for physical Water sweepers that you'd forgo female Basculegion on certain rain builds?

 

[GoldCat]

What's the main advantage "Masculegion" has over its female counterpart? I'm assuming its main use case is on rain but beyond that what's the advantage it has over the other options for physical Water sweepers that you'd forgo female Basculegion on certain rain builds?

Its actual use is outside of rain and has popped up with some tour players using it. I think AV and Scarf? are the sets used but I could be wrong

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-786446?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-783692?p2

But the main things are a strong Flip Turn and Aqua Jet.

 

[Miyami~~~]

woo new shifts wooo

New > B / C+ > UR / UR > UR

Ribombee is pretty much just a strict upgrade to webs teams since it has the speed and coverage to actually scare out bike and geezing both. It's unfortunately screwed over a bit by the rise of Talonflame, who can even EV to outspeed it with minimal change to its current set. I think Webs/QD/Moonblast/Psychic(noise) will probably be the best set, since it makes you a decent offensive threat and if they go steels you just get webs up and die so you've done your job anyways. QD and specs probably also have some real potential despite bee's very severe 4mss, that speed tier is way too good to not at least experiment with.

dear ladder: it's not your fault. You couldn't do anything to save galv or araq in the accident. It's time to let go.

New > B- / C > B- / C > UR

Let's get this out of the way: without light clay or hypnosis screens offense is pretty much dead in the water. If you're using this it's to prop up Cetitan with 8 turns of hail + 4 turns of screens for whatever the rest of your team wants to do. "hail" at this point is probably just normal hazard stack HO with a super-cetitan on it, it works fine enough. Tales probably also has some minor use on webs or other offenses with NP + 3 Attacks, since it has perfect coverage with tblast ground + FD + moonblast, or maybe even LO 3 attacks + veil/encore, but as a sweeper its held back by having zero way to enter the field on its own and just not being quite fast enough in such an offense heavy meta without webs support. At least it improves your weather MU just by existing?

Rest in peace, Aboma. You won't be missed. I'm grateful to have a setter that can actually set veil up now.

replay of tales enabling cetitan:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2213795747-ycfsvxn383jgdilbdpvgs8vl8bog630pw

the miracle matchup where NP tales actually swept:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2217368240

UR > C / C+ > C / C+ > UR / UR > C?

Poor Torkoal, it's really not your fault. I guess this might be a little low since this playstyle is just begging to be optimized, but the problem is that unlike rain, we don't have any independantly good chlorophyll abusers. Even Hilligant is actively made worse by using it over hustle. This kinda gimps sun before it could even get started, as Venu and Scovillain both have very glaring flaws (Venu needs 4 attacking moves to hit everything but also needs growth, and scovillain just folds to any sturdy fire resist) that probably severely handicap the playstyle before it could even really start. At least Torkoal's an upgrade over tales...

speaking of, while Tales is equally ranked to Torkoal in OU, this is pretty much entirely due to the existence of great tusk compressing the same roles as Torkoal does while also actually being a good mon by OU standards. Since we don't have anything that can do that down here, Tales is probably done.

UR > C+

Are you an offense player? Are you sick of having to remove your own hazards just to remove your opponent's? Never fear, Bramble is here to be perfectly adequate on offense. Bramble's main niche over the bike is that it isn't passive, even without max investment 120 and 110 power STAB moves sting a lot, and that it also condenses your spinblocker into the same slot to free up your other teamslots/teras. It can even slot in spikes depending on your team needs, since its only mandatory moves are spin/sap/one of your big stab buttons, although personally I went with dual stabs to give it a bit more breaking potential. I don't think it'll ever get higher because Bisharp completely owns it, but if you need hazards removed on offense and don't want Maushold, this is kind of it.

I didn't bother to save replays of bramble spinning because we all know what a spinner does, but here's some proof of it not being passive in the way that bike or forre might be and cleaning teams:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2217295454
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2217335615-rpiumjltdeoal8qx0zcf96siqw9phkipw

edit: tourgame replay
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2219463867


and now for some old mons:

A- > B+ / C > UR

while tidy up not cleaning up your own screens is cute, the fact that screens isn't the dominant HO style means this is outweighed by the main problem with maushold HO: you almost never want to clean up your own hazards, and you can't remove yours without doing so. Maushold is a pretty bad fit for "dual setter" HO, in which you attempt to set up rocks + spikes/webs with 2 mons (or 1 mew) and win the game as fast as possible. Maushold undoing a third of your team's progress when you probably sacced them to get there just sucks, especially because between every HO team having mimikkyu and every other team having helmet it's never gonna sweep. Even Yanmega doesn't need it that much, the difference between a 100% and 51% Yanmega is pretty minimal. at least hail needs it..?

Cinccino's minor niches like access to knock and turn, a higher speed tier, and only being 2HKOed by rocky helmet don't make up for the noticeable power loss and severe 4mss. I don't think anyone seriously runs this, sadly.

B- > B/B+
While it didn't keep up the momentum past round 1 (which was quite literally the only round we'd finished when I started this post...), Vaporeon went an incredible 9-0 in RUWC qualifiers and is a lot closer to Umbreon in viability than a whole rank apart. Vaporeon offers some more flexibility to the wish hoodra balances that make up a lot of high tier teams, sacrificing a bit of Umbreon's defensive profile for a slightly different range of checks and the slow pivoting, as we all know. I don't really know how to nom this super well I always thought it was underranked and seeing it pop off in the RUWC round with the biggest sample size makes me kinda just wanna point at that

and a lightning round:
A- > A: This might be premature, but with the massive spike in variance HO took from this shift, regular and webs HO probably really can't go without it at this point.

C > B-: I wrote a whole post on it last time and I stand by it, but tales and bee dropping both help it. It's stupidly bulky under veil (scarf gapdos 3hkos it with both up, completely removing the opportunity for its most common RKer to kill it until veil dies) and takes setup opportunities you'd never think of, and if you run it on webs it fixes one of its biggest problems. Use it more!

B > C+: Actually fraudulent mon. Even with Armarouge being one of the better mons in the tier and one of HO's best anchors second to Yanmega, you still never see HO opt to run this to make Armarouge stronger because it just doesn't do anything on its own while also not benefiting the team enough to be worth including.

C+ > B-: More and more varied HO = ditto only gets better. Especially now that we have a bunch of weather and webs teams invading, and ditto lets you skip having specialized counterplay to them in favour of just having one mon that can win the matchup for you.

C > B-: I am going to keep nomming this every post I can but it also just gets better when webs does since it's one of the better abusers of it. Priority Espeed is also only getting better. This isn't even counting its actual set variety since physical sets maul offense and it's a really good stallbreaker with NP.

 

[fluff!!]

UR -> B/B-
Our best webs setter, and webs is trending because of Ribombee's arrival. Despite webs doing decent rn, it is more than likely that ppl will start teching against it and it will be another fringe MU fishy option lurking around that can destroy you if you're not prepared. Quiver Dance sets are not super bad but it needs a TON of support and still needs Tera to do anything.

UR -> B+/B
A decent Nasty Plot user with Moonblast/Tera Blast Ground/Encore. Absolutely requires Tera to do anything if it doesnt want any steel to just sit on it. It can be quite danregous though if it does Tera, thanks to its decent Speed and Fairy+Ground coverage being broken, it's also quite consistent at finding opportunities to setup thanks to Snow's defense boost and the threat of Encore.

UR -> C/still UR lol
Worse Ninetales for Sun support, a TR cheese mon outside of this. Unfortunate.

A -> A-/B+
Empoleon is not good like that, ok... we have a bevy of great Steels and Waters, and being a Water that don't necessarily enjoy switching into Fire types is very meh when Volcanion and Armarouge are already huge threats. We aren't short in Stealth Rock setters either...

B- -> B
I am a Gallade believer. It's not super popular yet, but it still kills anything and everything, and is reasonably bulky for a mon that strong.

B- -> B
Come on, it's better than Milotic and Swampert.

C+ -> B-
Ditto is always stealth good, but the popularity of webs and the general slight shift to a more aggressive tier are things Ditto loves.

C+ -> C/UR
Maybe, if you squint hard enough, Araquanid fits better than Ribombee in some webs comps. Perhaps.

C -> UR
Completely outclassed by Ninetales-A in a niche that's already near useless.

C -> UR
Worse Maushold. There is 0 reason to use Cinccino over the mice.

C -> UR
I'm guessing Diancie's ranking is more of a placeholder for Trick Room's ranking as a whole, which you could say is just viable enough to deserve a mention here, but if it's not that, then... yeah, Diancie ain't doing much in Steel-types the tier.

edit because I forgot about it:
B -> C/UR
yeah.

 

[Heatranator]

Post drops VR noms

-> UR
These mons don't really have a place on the VR anymore, since they are outclassed by our newest drops. (rip galvantula fans, didn't even get onto the VR LMAO)

C+ -> C
I think that araquanid should still stay on the VR, as it does have valuable traits ribombee doesn't have. Firstly, water bubble liquidation (or surf if you want to get spicy) is insanely strong, and threatens the one hazard remover bee can't threaten in talonflame, with brave bird not even being an OHKO to it. It also can threaten cyclizar for big damage, as all of the bikes moves don't do a lot to it, while liquidation does a solid chunk. Geezing also doesn't do a lot, as water bubble prevents it from getting burned, and liquidation does 43% minimum. Now, despite these good traits, araquanid is mostly outclassed by bee, so its still getting demoted. However, I still think its good enough to be ranked.

UR -> B-
Ribombee is a massive boon to web teams, while not being dead weight as a standalone mon. Ribombee can do pretty well into cyclizar and geezing, but struggles into talonflame, who has been rising as of late. Specs sets have been underwhelming, while qd is only alright. I think B- rank is fine for now, as while it def is better then our options before, webs as a whole I think will struggle in a tier where our removal options while limited, are great individual pokemon.

UR -> C+
Sadly, torkoal couldn't rise sun any higher, as sun simply has too many issues to compete with. However, torkoal is def better then ninetales. Some might say this is because of spin+rocks allowing it to role compress for the team, but I think body press is the main reason. Rocks is def nice, but torkoal is unreliable at spinning, so sun teams still struggle with hazards. However, body press means that unlike ninetales, torkoal can threaten cyclizar immensly, as max defense body press has a good chance to OHKO bike, meaning it can't knock off tork's heat rock reliably. It still is a momentum sink, so I can't rank it any higher then tales was.

UR -> C
Scovillain is a decent choice on sun teams, with specs sets basically having zero switchins (tera fire flamethrower in sun can 2hit ko AV bike, while fire blast always 2hit kos) and growth sets having insane power after a single boost. It definetely has issues, as it provides basically zero defensive utility to sun teams, but its nuclear power does let it have a niche on sun teams.

C+ -> C
Ninetales honestly is outclassed by torkoal due to spin, rocks and body press being better, however, it does have a few neat things. Firstly, is healing wish, which can be amazing if its pulled off can be lights out as two rounds of venu or friends can be too much for teams. Secondly, encore can give setup turns to teammates that can otherwise be hard to pull off. Finally, its speed stat means it can be suprisingly threatening to an unsuspecting team. It is worse then torkoal, no questions asked, but I think it still should be ranked.

UR -> B-/B
A-tales has proven itself to be a great mon on HO, and a great addition to hail teams. NP+Stabs+Tera blast ground is great at threatening a wide variety of teams, while NP+A stab+Tera Blast Ground+Encore/Aurora Veil allows it to play a more supportive role in a team. It has a decent speed stat and good bulk with snow. It also is leagues better then abomasnow, and makes cetitan a genuine threat if it can get up aurora veil.

C+ -> B-
With the influx of HO styles that appreciate hazards not being on their side, espeon has been included more and more to help alleviate this issue. However, I think as a standalone attacker, espeon is a lot better then people give it credit for. Calm mind with draining kiss can be a great wincon, with either weather ball on sun teams to evicirate steel types or just end game once steel types are taken care of not having the greatest answers. Air balloon can let it setup on hippowdon lacking any coverage move, and tera fairy lets it beat the dark types that might revenge kill it. Magic bounce means t-wave or toxic can't affect it, limiting the answers defensive teams can use. Good mon that I think is better then the other C+ rank stuff.

B -> C/UR
What has this thing even done recently? Some people hyped this up so much when it dropped, and its fallen insanely flat. Armarouge is a devestating mon on psyterrain, but its also a great mon on every other HO style lmao. The unburden users we have are pretty underwhelming, and while priority is definetely important in the tier, you can usually get around it just fine in order to not have to use this bad mon. I don't think I've seen a psyterrain team in the last month, and it should either go to the bottom of the VR, or off it.

B- -> B/B+
I'll say that I absolutely called this mon being good in RU. Vaporeon is an alternative to umbreon as a wishpasser that compresses some valuable roles (anti setup sweeper, suicune check and rain check) that has a lot of versatility in its last moveslot. Haze is the standard last moveslot, but flip turn can be useful for pivoting, roar can be used as a temporary anti setup move that racks up hazard damage and calm mind is an option I've been using lately that can help against other calm mind mons while also making it a devestating win con late game. Genuinelly great mon that deserves to rise.

B -> B+
How chesnaught hasn't risen yet, I won't understand. By far our best spiker in the tier (klefki is the next best, but has its issues), is a great defensive presence in the tier and can be offensive with belly drum sets, which while gimmicky, can decimate an unprepared team. It also can be quite versatile in its moveset, with all of wood hammer, leech seed, spiky shield, roar, iron defense and even cc seeing use on occasions.

 

[TJE Spectre]

UR > C+

Are you an offense player? Are you sick of having to remove your own hazards just to remove your opponent's? Never fear, Bramble is here to be perfectly adequate on offense. Bramble's main niche over the bike is that it isn't passive, even without max investment 120 and 110 power STAB moves sting a lot, and that it also condenses your spinblocker into the same slot to free up your other teamslots/teras. It can even slot in spikes depending on your team needs, since its only mandatory moves are spin/sap/one of your big stab buttons, although personally I went with dual stabs to give it a bit more breaking potential. I don't think it'll ever get higher because Bisharp completely owns it, but if you need hazards removed on offense and don't want Maushold, this is kind of it.

I didn't bother to save replays of bramble spinning because we all know what a spinner does, but here's some proof of it not being passive in the way that bike or forre might be and cleaning teams:

“99% of all Bramblers quit before they win big.”
I really like the recognition of Brambleghast here, it has so much utility that it does to an adequate level. I agree with everything Miyami has said, except I may even push for it to be at a B- level.
I would like to mention that it completely breaks Whirlwind Hippowdown in two. (Thank you Wind Rider) It also stops Chesnaught from setting up Spikes, and if defensively EV’d correctly, just sits on Cyclizar and Strength Saps. I feel like it would pair very well on a ID Magnezone Magnet Pull with the utility of being a Spike setter, Spin Blocker, and walling Hippowdown.
If you want to really be cool and innovative, run Curse and watch it punish set up Pokémon and tanks alike, while potentially giving you momentum and pressure for your own set up Pokémon. Curse Can even act like a Psuedo-Toxic with Strength Sap restoring HP. The only problem is that you get completely shut down by Taunt.

Though it cannot Knock Off + U-Turn, it has so much utility that it offers. Brambleghast is a perfect Pokémon for people that just need all that compression.

 

[LBN]

New VR takes come get your post drops VR takes

NEW -> B-
Fraud. I hope NU is excited because atleast they'll be getting the hazard removal they were begging come new years
jokes aside, this mon isn't saving sun anytime soon. The issues that sun suffered from are still there and the role compression of torkoal does alleviate pressure but honestly sun is still mostly mediocore, but you can definitely win with it easier. C+ is realistically as high as I'll go, though I admit i've fucked around with Torkoal the least of the new drops beyond getting my shit pushed in by lime loading specs torkoal trick room on ladder. (Ironically I think that's its best job cuz wow TR is actually really annoying)

NEW -> B
Anybody callin ribombee broken it out of their damn minds. Sure, fairy ground coverage is very good on a quiver dance bot but unfortunately the defensive backbone of a fucking squishmallow does not lend itself to winning games. Just use yanmega unless you want webs and a sweeper at the same time on offensive teams. Speaking of offense, Webs HO is also not as good as some people feared. Bisharp existing is already a gargantuan middle finger to the notion of webs and empoleon is also pretty threatening at +2 when it uses sets that don't suck. More than that, I don't think the tier has a ton of pokemon that abuse sticky webs particularly religiously beyond threats like Gallade for HO, I think general offense is where this thing shines the most.

NEW -> B+/A-
I think NP Alolatales is a bit more useful than QD Ribombee is for a couple reasons. Firstly, it's more immediately threatening overall and its slightly less tera reliant thanks to superior bulk and Ice/Fairy being solid STABs to work off, regardless of the sp att stat. You have options like Encore as a flex slot if you intend to remove steels in other ways, or drop one of the stabs and get Ice/Ground or Fairy/Ground coverage w Encore to boot. As for HO, I think Veil is the best of the new HO boosts for 2 main reasons. 1: Bisharp. Making arguably the most broken mon in the tier get a free boost by doing nothing is an easy way to lose urself the game. 2: I think alot of mons can make veil extremely helpful even with the 4-5 turns duration. Pokemon like Lum Gyarados, SR Necrozma, Revavroom and others all benefit from the extra bulk for even a single turn and as long as they get that turn, they have good odds to take the follow up priority that'd usually be enough if veil didnt back them up. Alolatales with boots and the def boost from snow can usually take 1 hit from alot of things, even a boosted Yanmega. This defensive utility, paired with the ease of fitting boots, gives it B+, or even A- to me.

Snow is another topic altogether, and I think it needs further testing. Realistically I think Cetitan sucks. You pretty much never get that belly drum off to justify the hassle of getting it on the field unharmed AND get the setup off to win the game. On regular veil HO though, thats where i think the snow aspect might have merit. Alolaslash Veil HO sounds pretty decent and gives a secondary steel option to Revavroom, which I think isn't a concept doomed from the start.

C -> UR
I aint explaining these.

C+ -> C
Also self-explanatory but these pokemon still have hope left in them yet.

UR -> C/C+
Fantastic offensive rocker. Honestly this has always been on the cusp of being ranked but after using it a couple times both in tour games and ladder I can confidently say this things fucks. It can use a variety of berries, Colbur Passho Rindo Custap but colbur is by far the best one. Being a rocker that self-blocks cyclizar is a game that Palossand has employed well for bulky teams, but Golurk does this for offensive teams while smashing the defoggers personally with No Guard Stone Edges. Ground/Ghost/Rock is mostly unresisted beyond things like Wo-Chien and Chesnaught. Offensive Terrakion check, Kleavor for the 5 people who think that mon doesnt suck, and its speed stat can be tweaked to do things like living Thundurus Gknot from 100 or outspeeding standard Specs H-Goodras. Personally I'd go so far as to say that I think Golurk is better than Palossand right now, but that's a pitch that'll take some time for ppl to see the light. Ik theres the replay rule, so here. Not the flashiest replay but it is a tour replay vs a real player so... I also have this replay for R3 of penta where I also used golurk.

B -> C
Ask yourselves when the last time this pokemon saw serious use was. I'm sorry palossand I like you but the cyclizar = only removal in the tier era is long past and half the reason you'd use this thing was for that reason. Okidogi left too so like what's the point now. I still think it's a viable pick for fat teams that want to hazard stack but spikes + punishing removal with things like Bisharp, Zap-Galar or Basculegion is far more favored. Sure it's not bad but like Hippo/Gligar/Golurk/Krook are right there just use them in most if not all cases.

->UR
FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU HAHAHAHAHA DIE DIE DIE

A- -> B+/B
Life orb Mimikyu is not an A- pokemon and Red card mimikyu is not even a B rank pokemon so frankly this pokemon should be grateful this paragraph isn't going to be turned into a glorified hit piece.

B -> B+
Gyarados has seen a bit of a boost with Alolan Ninetales dropping, being arguably the best pokemon on Veil teams. It was always a bit of a tera hog but I think Okidogi's departure helped it out since Slowbro will be less damn near mandatory and Okidogi was a fighting type it struggled to set up on. Tera Flying is still deadly as ever we know what it does. Infernape nothing has changed just nom it B+ this mon has always belonged there please just use my sample and see the light. Duskroc got better with Okidogi's departure and Accelrock always remains a valuable utility. H-Lilligant thrives with these shifts as it adores Okidogi leaving as well as both A-Tales and Torkoal dropping. A-Tales gives it boosts on veil teams, doubly so if you run tera ice, while Torkoal breathes life into its sun niche. I think it's well deserving of going back up to B+ now.

B -> B-
I don't care if Okidogi dropped these 2 mons still aren't good enough for B rank.

A- -> A
This will be the last one but I think this Pokémon has been pushing A rank quality for awhile. With okidogi leaving though, well the floodgates are open. Fantastic wall, knock ruination is exceptionally hard to kill paired w leech and protect. With stun spore for added flavor, you have an incredible pokemon that can tera and pmuch 1v1 almost anything it wants to. Helps vs Bisharp, Thundy and so much more there's rarely a game Wo-Chien ever does nothing. A premier dark type saddled with the curse of not being a ladder hero mon, because this is RU material right here.

 

[fluff!!]

C+ -> B+

Kilowattrel has been picking up in usage due to being one of Thundurus's best switch ins, and it has shown promise even outside of the Thundurus matchup it originally popped up for. Its incredible 125 base Speed allows it to run circles around every team that's not HO forever, outspeeding even super fast Pokemon like Cyclizar, Noivern, and Azelf. It is not threatened by Defog Talonflame sets not running Flare Blitz either. Its Ground and Electric immunities coupled with access to Roost gives it surprising resilience, allowing it to consistently switch into mons such as Jirachi, Registeel, and Hippowdon lacking Rock-type coverage. It lacks offensive coverage however, being limited to Electric/Flying, and Hurricane has consistency issues. However, I do believe it is a vastly under utilized Pokemon that has great potential, even without considering Thundurus.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

Fez from A to A-
I feel like it's kinda fallen off, like teams usually are packing enough poisons / steels and decent enough hazard control to be able to switch into it. It's ability to proc toxic chain is nice, but like it's not consistent enough for me. It's still solid, don't get me wrong, it's just very specific on it's use cases and only really works for some specific styles of teams.

Suicune to A+
If you don't have an answer or MU experience you will lose. Suicune is simply the ultimate feast or famine mon, and 9 times outta 10 it's eating good, a very viable mon.

Toxicroak, Cetitan, Sandslash from -C to B- or C+
These guys are honestly all pretty solid, and at least in terms of viability the snow goons are better than the sun team gamers, and are better. Toxicroak is also just solid and is pretty good as a psudo "okidogi" who can throw off strong Close Combats and Gunk Shots while packing Knock off and even priority in Sucker Punch

Mimikyu to B+
Honestly? Isn't the glue for HO teams that she used to be. Like, it's gotta to the point where you don't need a red card mimikyu, and while prio is nice, you can usually play around mimikyu, so I think she's just less viable nowadays for those reasons.

Flygon to B
stealth rocks i guess are fine, but it really doesn't do much to make me feel like it's good enough to be commonly considered for teams. More niche than anything, so B tier seems right to me.

Infernape to B-
potential man

 

[AveragePKMN]

for the viability rankings could we please remove thundurus as he is now in RUBL

 

[Denial]

NGL vr feels super outdated and with some very optimistic and exaggerated takes so i decided to make a Tier List Maker cause i dont have the tryharder energy in me anymore to explain everything.

As this is not really the classic metric every VR uses, ill explain how i went ahead and ranked them, figured that'd be faster than trying to explain every change.

S Rank: Best Pokemon in the tier. Almost every team would benefit from running it. I dont think this stand true for any pokemon this tier has rn, which is why i have nothing in S.

A Ranks: Great and consistent Pokemon that have both great defensive profiles and unique attributes, would it be offensively or with supporting roles and compression.

B Ranks: Great Pokemon but lack the consistency that some of the Pokemon in A have. Those Pokemon while flawed do still fill unique roles and can have great matchups.

C Ranks: Pokemon who are not consistent but do have some aspects that would make me consider running them in the first place.

 

[Metallica126]

 

[Ampha]

VR Update time!

New additions

-> B+
-> C
-> B

Rises

A -> A+
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B+
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C

Drops

A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C -> UR
C -> D(UR but RU by usage, check main post)