Anyways, AHEM. Hello everyone! I'm Leonardo, an OU player who last summer got into Ubers and started learning the meta. Over the course of an year I have managed to get pretty familiar with the ADV Ubers landscape and while I'm clearly still not that good ahah I have been able to get a few not-too-bad results. Thus I've decided I'm finally ready to share my opinions on the viability of the meta's various mons.
Now, I'm sure my opinions won't be stable forever and I'll no doubt change my mind on various placements but for now I'm decently sure about my choices (at least as far as the major mons are considered). All this is also my opinion and with me only having one year of Ubers under my belt it is likely people will disagree with some choices and that's very fair. I just like writing about this stuff so don't think about my opinions as gospel or anything like that.
All that said, let's get started.
============ TIER LIST ============
====== EXPLANATIONS ======
-The best
1.
Latios
Latios is an insane beast of offensive and defensive utility. Having him on your team already makes your life 100 times easier versus Groudon and especially Kyogre. With refresh he also easily beats defensive Lugia and Skarm. The power Latios brings to the table, ability to eat alive many teams and great speed are super useful for any team. Put all that together with Levitate and an incredible movepool that gives him many good options to play around with and Latios ends up easing teambuilding up a lot. He isn't perfect though since he can't really get through Blissey, has difficulties against Snorlax and is always at risk of dying while it tries to check the likes of Groudon since the stuff it beats often has ways to hit it in return. Groudon is the best example since it can easily be eved to live an icebeam and kill with a +2 hp ghost, making it into a very scary lure that can potentially open the way for a back Kyogre or other pokemon who don't love Latios. Nontheless, Latios is an incredible pokemon that is often very hard to live without and his great combo of offensive power, defensive utility and versatility make it the most important pokemon in the meta in my eyes.
2.
Groudon
My eyes have been opened to the positives of Rain, but Sun remains on top for me. Aside for the obvious weakening of thunder spam Sun offers and enpowering of many fire type move users (big one being Deo-A, who can much more easily beat pursuit Metagross when Sun powers up fire punch), Groudon itself is much harder to answer than Kyogre and a potent breaker with swords dance. Groudon requires you to have at least 2 pokemon in your team who can either threaten or wall him as he can beat just about every check it has with swords dance plus the right move combo. Hp ghost for Latios and Latis as mentioned before, Rock slide for Ho-Oh and overheat for Skarmory (heck even Twave alone is a good way to annoy most of its check) means you can never be too safe against him. At the same time Groudon offers an invaluable ability to check Metagross and Snorlax (the latter being the most notable thing Groudon checks, as fire blast Snorlax is a nightmare under Sun). Its only real issue is only okay speed, big time 4 moves slot syndrome and the fact it will often get chipped down by the stuff it checks (or even worse, body slam parad) making it harder and harder for it to do its job over the course of a match. All this aren't major issues tho and don't keep Groudon from commonly blowing holes in teams without too much effort.
3.
Kyogre
A wise man once said that "the weather always sticks together" and these words couldn't be more true here as Kyogre sits right after Groudon in the vr. Kyogre is a bit worse in my eyes than Groudon because it is way worse at beating the Latis making it easier to prep for in teambuilding than Mr Grudon(tm) and Rain enabling enemy thunder as much as your own can often turn the game sour. Despite this, the power of a +1 rain boosted surf cannot be understated. Kyogre has the most potential out of any pokemon in the meta to just run with the game, often putting you in a situation where one crit or freeze on your Lati can spell doom, and it also enables your own thunder spamming very well while also allowing the likes of Kabutops and Omastar to become actual threats. It even has Twave just because "why the hell not?", in the words of whoever coded its movepool. Not a pokemon to be underestimated, but not as hard as Groudon to prep for.
-AMAZING
4.
Deoxys-Attack
Nothing scarier than a late game Deo-A. There isn't much to say about it because this mon is insane for a very simple straight foward reason: perfect movepool and stats for the job it has. Deo-A's Extreme speed is an important tool to keep the opponent from running you over with salac users and is one of the 2 main reasons many clorophyll and swift swim mons aren't all that good. It has all the moves it needs, hits like a track, outspeeds every pokemon in the meta (aside for Deo-S but he isn't real) and if you are somehow faster it can just espeed you. The only downside to it is that you'll never tank any attacks aside for the weakest hits possible, which means getting it in isn't easy and pursuit can be a serious issue for it. Pursuit is the main reason I tend to not run choice band Deo-A, the power of that set is amazing but getting revenged easily is a big down side. Whatever the case, Deo-A in Ubers is an insane monster that you always have to be prepared for both in the builder and in-game. Don't waste health on your Metagross unless you know opponent doesn't have Deo-A, otherwise you'll be in for a rude awakening when your worn down team gets murdered by a last mon Deo-A.
5.
Blissey
The next two pokemon are constantly shifting spots in my mind, fighting between eachother for who gets to be numbers 5 and who ends up as number 6. So I'd say to consider them at the same level of viability. Now, as for Blissey, it kind of just does what you'd expect. Walls special attackers like there's no tomorrow while mostly favouring heal bell as the big utility move of choice as it is incredibly useful in a meta full of status spam. Blissey can sometimes struggle with passivity and it can either end up getting stalled out by the likes of refresh Latios or broken through by sub-cm users such as Kyogre and Mewtwo, but in the end it is still Blissey so it will always make your life better against special attackers. Now...for a couple potentially hot takes:
- On Rain Blissey should (almost) always be calm mind as its passivity sucks otherwise on these structures (which don't pull off slow paces very well) and it also makes it an actually good stop to any Latios set. This is very important since Latios clicking thunder is always scary for Rain.
- The classic light screen, toxic, heal bell, soft boiled set is very very bad. It is just so insanely passive that it ends up doing nothing but give steel types free turns, which is really bad when Forretress is common and ready to use you for free spikes and spins.
Overall, Blissey simply does her thing as usual and pays off very often.
6.
Snorlax
Sand is rare and so are ghost types. Do I need to say anything else? With great stats, lefty recovery most games, incredible movepool that becomes even better when you realize that options such as fire blast and thunder are strong in a weather meta, and immunity for nice utility vs toxic to boot Snorlax is a scary offensive special wall. It is rather rare to get a sweep with it since lots of common stuff scares it (Groudon, Deo-A, Metagross...) but it doesn't really need to do that to put in good work game in and game out. It isn't as perfect as a wall as Blissey tho since Latios' insane power can sometimes be enough to beat it and Kyogre is just so strong in Rain it always beats Snorlax (para haxx aside) but it still deals well with many important threats and turns them into opportunities to chip the opponent or curse up. Also, the huge utility of STAB Self destruct is always appreaciated. Lastly, everybody always mentions thunder when they try to prove the meta is bad but I have lost more games to Snorlax body slam than thunder lol.
7.
Mewtwo
This pokemon makes team building 100 times harder just by having the move Self destruct. In general Mewtwo is an incredible special threat who is slower than only Deo-A (Deo-S still isn't real), can notably really scare enemy Latios, gets tons of useful moves and can always boom if it isn't needed. The ability to beat special walls with boom is what makes Mewtwo an honestly annoying pokemon to fight against as you are never really favoured in the boom mind games and are going to have an awful time vs Latios if your special wall gets blown up. Sub CM sets are also really nice win cons using Mewtwo's solid bulk to set up 101 hp subs and break through Blissey, OU sub cm Jirachi style. Physical sets are kind of meh but they can work okay sometimes. Being good into Mewtwo without making other big compromises is hard.
8.
Latias
Latios but bulky and weaker. She's for sure a very nice option that can help tie together more slow paced teams but the damage output dropoff from her brother is huge and can make her feel like a downgrade at times. If you are mono dragon but not roar you can't beat Kyogre without a crit (while he can both crit you and freeze you) while if you have thunder no cm you just do no damage after Kyogre has cmed once. Without refresh you are fully reliant on Blissey's heal bell which is very exploitable. You also are worse vs Groudon. In the end tho Latias still has incredible stats and while she finds it way harder than Latios to fit all the moves she wants, her great bulk and speed together with an amazing ability and movepool still make her very powerful if played right. She's last in the "Amazing" tier mostly because I find it easier to fit everybody else as they don't have the problem of having another pokemon almost identical to them that is strictly better a lot of the times.
-GREAT
9.
Ho-Oh
Stupid stupid pokemon that I love using but hate fighting. Incredible bulk, good offensive stats, recover, good type and the evil move Sacred fire make Ho-Oh really hard to beat. No matter what you'll do you will always be weak to CB Ho-Oh or physdef Ho-Oh or have made yourself weaker into some other meta threat. The choice band sets are great at dealing big damage especially since no flying resist is eating a sacred fire for free, while defensive sets are really nice bulky blobs that beat non-rockslide Groudon, help against opposing offensive Ho-Oh and can turn switch ins to steel types into progress thanks to Sacred fire burning 50% of the times. Nothing is truly good into Ho-Oh aside for kind of Rest Kyogre which itself isn't super great in my experience. Easily the most annoying part of the meta. Thankfully its power output isn't stupid high thanks to it having a bad STAB on the physical side and a not too high 110 attacking stat on the special side. With good reads you can beat any CB Ho-Oh and the likes of Refresh Latias, Rest Kyogre and Blissey can deal with the defensive sets, it's just dealing with both in the builder that is the hard part.
10.
Metagross
A great way of helping the team against Deo-A, Metagross is the only real pursuit user that doesn't kind of suck at that job since he both does ohko Deo-A if it switches and doesn't get ohkoed by any of its moves. Being able to run hp fire on Sun teams is also very nice for Forretress and it's also still a good choice against a lot of Snorlax sets. Sadly fire blast Snorlax and fire punch Deo-A can make Metagross feel awkward to use at times but its good traits still shine through very often. Big mention also has to go to its access to explosion, its flying resistance and good phys def making it nice for CB Rayquaza and it's ability to really mess with Blissey. Choice band sets are also cool but I tend to prefer the bulky ones for the help they give in dealing with various threats. I've recently felt a bit more down than normal on it tho so one day it may fall, but only at worst by one or two positions.
11.
Forretress
The only truly good spinner in the meta and an amazing spiker to boot. Just an overall very solid pokemon that is so useful on both Balanced and Stall alike. Hp fire sets on Sun are really cool, stab hp bug is a fun option and also it has explosion which is never a bad thing. It can make pokemon such as defensive Lugia and light screen Blissey regret not having an attacking move and is an important way to make progress and stop your opponent from doing the same. I don't really like it on Rain tho because it matches rather poorly into opposing Forres if they are on Sun since the only way you can hit them is either countering their hp fire or zap cannon which is unreliable and probably won't have enough pp to kill anyways. It also hogs up space on Rain that is kind of needed for other stuff since Rain needs all the slots it can get to check all the stuff that scares it. On Sun though she's my shiny golden goat.
12.
Rayquaza
It is good at clicking Hp flying and Espeed. Thanks to access to Espeed and its weather nullifing ability (Air Lock) it's the second reason weather dependent speed boosting ability pokemon aren't often great and it also means it's a great way to punish enemy Deo-A. Dragon dance sets are pretty cool late game sweepers but CB is really where the good stuff is at. A well played CB Rayquaza can break past any team, even Skarmory ones if you are packing Overheat/Fire blast (you don't even care about Rain due to Air Lock!), and can pick off a chipped team with Espeed. It's also one of the best answers to Heracross which is a nice bonus. I've really come to appreciate this pokemon and feel any offensive team should always have either it or Deo-A on it.
13.
Lugia
I want to say right away that CB is a rather meh set on Lugia as while it has way more speed and bulk than Rayquaza it is way weaker and doesn't have the great Skarm destroing options that Rayquaza has. That said, the actual main way to use Lugia, the wall set, is good but flawed. Nothing will ohko a defensive Lugia without attack boosts or crits which means it can wall a lot of really important pokemon, especially physical attackers (Groudon, Deo-A, Snorlax etc.). The problem is that you need all of Toxic, Reflect, Whirlwind and Recover to function best, thus making you the most passive thing on Earth. Spikes are the only way this set can do anything to Toxic immunes, Blissey and refresh mons like the Latis and that's a pretty bad thing when you give a free spin turn to Forretress. Lugia excells at shutting down Offense's momentum but will be mostly useless against Balanced and Stall teams who can use it as spin opportunities for their Forretress. Though Pressure is always nice in those match ups of course, but it doesn't matter too much if there aren't spikes on the opponent's side because they can just keep switching between toxic immunes and refresh users not wasting any pp. It also has some haxx associated risks due to being so passive that I don't want to overlook, even if they aren't huge deal breakers. For all this the only thing Lugia is great on is Stall, which limits how often I can use it. Nothing can take away the fact it is at times near unkillable though.
-GOOD
14.
Wobbuffet
An annoying trapper who's hard to make work since it can only threaten you with Counter, Mirror coat and Destiny bond, with Encore to help. But that is still really useful and allows Wobb to trap and eliminate some important targets (main ones being Blissey and Snorlax for specially offensive teams), it just means you have to use your brain more and are limited in what you can trap. I feel Wobb is usually more specific than Dugtrio in OU as a trapper, especially with people often running enough speed on Blissey to outpace jolly Wobb, and it suffers from TF2 Spy syndrome of dying after getting one kill but that one ko can often be the deciding factor for its teams. It's an important trapper to keep in mind but it feels rigid in its playstyle and in the teams it can fit on.
15.
Mew
Jack of all traits, master of none. Any set that isn't Swords dance + Explosion has felt like a strictly worse Mewtwo most of the time but the trade heavy boom set is an awesome way to force a ko on an important pokemon. With ghosts being rare and Mew having just enough bulk and speed to get an sd off most of the time, you usually can mindlessly click boom after a sd and get a ko into most teams. Very specific for super fast paced teams and I don't see much of a use for it outside of that but it is good at that one thing, even if it is very mediocre at everything else it can do.
16.
Skarmory
Skarm maybe deserves to be above Mew but in my play time I usually prefer no spikes on offense and Forre everywhere else so I'm a bit down on it. Skarm is great for non-Overheat Groudon but it makes you way worse into opposing spikes. It also struggles to fit all the moves it wants (Hp fire so you can actually beat Hp fire Forre, Taunt, Toxic, Pursuit, all on top of the mandatory Roar and Spikes) and is way more scared of Latios than Forretress due to electric weakness. It is a great option for Rayquaza though and as I said it helps a lot vs Groudon, I just don't like how hard it is to win vs opposing spikes when you use it.
17.
Heracross
Inconsistent at its core, hates Espeed (to the point I honestly don't like Salac berry sets) but that huge Megahorn hits a lot of stuff in the meta for huge damage and with the right evs it is bulkier than you'd think. Can really mess up the right opponent but it struggles to not fall flat in some mus and it needs to hit Megahorn which is...a challenge sometimes.
18.
Jirachi
Jirachi surprised me lately with its useful set of qualities. It has Wish, Cm, Boltbeam coverage, Serene grace Thunder, a very good type and solid stats. I enjoyed using a Wish Calm mind set on a Rain team as some utiliy for the team and a nice way to annoy Blissy. It also isn't awful against Deo-A and even the Latis if Sun is up thanks to its type and stats. Sadly it isn't strong enough to help out a ton and I couldn't see myself using it in a lot of teams but it can tie together a squad really nicely sometimes. I would like to explore more bulky Wish Protect sets but they seem to have 4 moves slot syndrome for the last 2 slots, wanting all of Fire punch, Toxic, and Shadow ball, and the wrong 2 moves could screw you over depending on the mu.
19.
Omastar
The best Swift swimmer thanks to its type making it resist normal while its stats actually allow it to use Rain boosted water STAB unlike Kabutops. It also has Spikes and Thief which are hugely useful options and make Omastar useful even in the earlier stages of the game unlike other weather speed ability users who mostly act as late game sweepers. Its main problem is getting stonewalled by a lot of stuff, having only really thief to threaten Blissey and the Latis, and NEEDING Rain to be up to do anything. Still, a rather solid option for some offensive Rain teams. Don't use it to beat Rayquaza tho, you need max spatk and speed evs and that means CB Earthquake does like 116% MINIMUM to you and you are slower than Ray even in Rain due to Air lock.
20.
Gengar
Hard to use as its stats aren't enough to make up for no special STAB but the traits that make it good in OU are still here. It trashes Forre teams and will be hard to use in any other MU. It also commonly runs Shadow ball in Ubers because otherwise it thuds into the Latis and that is cool but it takes lots of evs away from its bulk and spatk to make its atk good and makes it a bit of a weirdo. Still, Levitate + Wisp + Spin immunity + STAB Shadow ball for Latis + 110 speed + Explosion is really nice to have.
-OKAY
21.
Deoxys-Defense
I hate playing against this guy so much but I find it so hard to fit on a team. It has that OU Hariyama thing where when you play against it you feel like it's the most impossible thing to beat ever but then when you use it you start seeing all the issues it has and end up having an hard time figuring out how to cover for them. Biggest issue is that if you have it as your spiker you want spin but can't really fit it that well and so you end up being a bit mu reliant. It also has an awful type. But like...huge bulk, fine speed, Knock off, Spikes, Fire punch for Forre, Recover, even cosmic power cause why not...it's so annoying to deal with if you are running something more on the Balanced side or Sun Stall.
22.
Salamence
Any offensive set is just Rayquaza at home but the phys def Wish set is an actually cool way to deal with a bunch of physical attackers. Very passive, usually hard to fit over other bulky flying types and kind of free food for Refresh Latios but it can work out nicely in stopping some physical attackers like non-Rockslide Groudon and Heracross.
23.
Tyranitar
Sand is cool but it also often hurts you just as much as the opponent and it can always be easily cleared by the number 2 and 3 pokemon. Ttar also struggles to deal with those two mons, who can threaten it a lot. It also wants many different moves to be effective but can't run them all. It does nontheless annoy Stall and Snorlax a ton and can help vs other stuff depending on the set, while also having many options in its movepool.
24.
Magneton
It does Mag stuff but teams that feature neither Forre nor Skarm are by no means uncommon and in those mus it is pretty much dead weight due to its stats. It can do some cool stuff, like Metal sound is very nice to really annoy any non Fire blast Snorlax (Earthquake kind of sucks on it so you don't have to worry about it usually) but it feels like a onetrick pony.
25.
Dusclops
It's useful on Stall and the fact it has pursuit for Deo-A is cool but it is hard to fit and passive. It also isn't as good vs Forre teams as Gengar because it's hit by spikes. It can work sometimes but is somewhat specific.
26.
Aerodactyl
I don't see much point to it since its damage output isn't that great and Groudon exists as an amazing rock resist for it, but its speed is great and a lot of teams don't have great options to deal with its rock slide outside of Groudon so it can help you clean up while not being as pursuitable as Deo-A.
-NICHE
27.
Armaldo
Beating curse Snorlax and having Knock off are amazing qualities but they are all Armaldo has. It doesn't come in on a ton of stuff and outside of Knock off it doesn't do much. It is very annoying to face due to Knock off being the worst but you won't see it often.
28.
Celebi
It just doesn't check anything man. Everything you think it could deal with can just set up once and 2hko it aside for Snorlax which is the only real positive mu it has. Leech seed is also dope and is helping out a lot in Celebi's placement but I can't put it any higher. Even this might be too much.
29.
Kabutops
Usually worse than Omastar due to not being able to use water STAB, getting somewhat walled by Groudon and needing more than anyone Rain up but it can function as a great wincon in the endgame and can turn the tides vs Stall thanks to its access to Rapid spin, so it is worth using from time to time.
30.
Shedinja
It is the perfect wall...in theory. You need to keep spikes off at all costs and Drypass is banned so you can't escape Pursuit...but it is the perfect wall in the right situation.
-Very niche
32.
Weezing
It kind of beats Deo-A and Snorlax while being very good into Groudon. I've personally tried it and found it to have passivity as its big issue together with awful spdef and no real recovery...but it can do something with Wisp, poison type and Levitate.
33.
Swampert
I want to play more with it as it is a really cool answer to the big question of "How do I not get overwhelmed by Mewtwo boom + Latios in the back?". Its specially bulky sets are really cool to wall the boltbeam attackers but they don't do anything outside of that and can have longevity problems.
34.
Regice
Just another way to not get overwhelmed by Mewtwo + special spam. It doesn't do much but it can spread para, boom and lure some attackers with counter. I have thought of something interesting with it and one day I'll give it a spin.
35.
Registeel
Again, another way to not get overwhelmed by Mewtwo + special spam but he can also be fine vs Snorlax thanks to curse. It's soooo passive though.
36.
Exeggutor
It is bad into the Espeed boys and only has thief and boom to threaten Latis and Bliss but Sleep powder, boom, thief all in one with speed boost under Sun is awesome. If Sun isn't up it is useless tho.
37.
Qwilfish
Swift swim + spikes + twave + boom + destiny bond is something but eeeeh not worth much.
38.
Ludicolo
At least it has Leech seed which is cool but doesn't do much outside of that.
39.
Kingdra
Yes I'd rather ran Qwilfish, at least then you can spike just like Omastar. Kingdra has Flail and I guess maybe it can do something vs Stall but bleh.
40.
Shiftry
Worse eggy...yikes.
41.
Victreebel
Worse eggy...yikes.
42.
Lanturn
You can trick yourself into believing it walls anything before you find out you have to run both Rest and Amnesia on it or you lose to calm mind. Just a do nothing pokemon...but it is yet another way to not get overwhelmed by Mewtwo + special spam (tm).
43.
Aggron
I'll trust MMII on this one.
44.
Deoxys-Speed
Harsh? Yes. Deserved? Yes, just run Deo-D. In a meta with no Stealth rock nor Giratina for easy spin blocking you want bulk to set up spikes not speed that doesn't even matter much.
-UNVIABLE
45.
Deoxys-Normal
Don't be cute, run Deo-A.
46.
Wynaut
Why don't you run Diglet in OU while you're at it?
============ CONCLUSIONS ============
I've been having fun with Ubers and will for sure play more in the future. Hope my VR breakdown was interesting to you and thanks for reading.
-Leo
