Metagame Camomons (Porygon-Z remains unbanned!)

[KamenAlliterator]

I haven't played Camo since the last time it was live, what is the meta atm?

Give me some ideas otherwise I am gonna default to my old favourite Scald / Belch [insert berry] Slowking!

Gargancl, Dragapult, Latios, Ting-Lu, Alomomola, Iron Valiant, Kingambit, and Hydreigon. Lots of typing for them that I can dive into if you’d like.

 

[EchoGaia]

Ive peaked top 1 recently and wanted to share my team if you'd like to try it:

Zamazenta @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 168 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Iron Head
- Imprison

IronPress Zama adding the steel typing to its already good fighting typing. That allows it to use STAB Iron Head to deal with Fairy and Ghost types. Imprison is a nice tool that allows it to win the mirror matches with other ironpress users like Garganacl thanks to Covert Cloak blocking the effect of Salt Cure. You can run Leftovers if you want but i really like Covert Cloak's ability to really turn the tables on Garganacl. If you run Leftovers, Substitute is an option over Imprison but then Garg might still overwhelm you if it has a typing that resist Body Press. The 80 speed investment + Jolly Nature allows Zamazenta to outspeed everything up to non booster energy Iron Valiant, and the entire unboosted metagame with Sticky Web up, including Scarf Iron Moth and Iron Valiant. 84 Atk allows it to 2HKO Fairy/Ghost Latios with Iron Head at worst, rest is poured into HP and Defense to maximize both physical bulk and Body Press damage output.

Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Ceaseless Edge
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch

H Samurott lead. Fighting/Dark is a very good offensive typing and it can still pressure Fairies thanks to Swords Dance. STAB on Sacred Sword hits like a truck and beats most ironpress users provided they arent a Ghost type. and Ceaseless is Ceasless. Sucker Punch is there to revenge kill faster threats if need be, or to finish opposing leads.




Porygon-Z @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Agility

Oh god how broken Porygon Z is in this. Depending on what you are facing, either go for Nasty Plot or Agility. It doesnt need to setup but if you manage to do so, it becomes unstoppable. Electric/Ice typing with Adaptability gives Porygon Z excellent wallbreaking tools to even dismantle the sturdiest cores and gives it an immunity to Thunder Wave. Heavy Duty Boots is the item of choice as it gives Porygon Z an edge over opposing Sticky Web teams, as they usually lack counters to this monster while giving it more longevity as it avoids entry hazard damage.





Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Sticky Web
- Quiver Dance

This is the second lead of the team. Usually i start with it, but sometimes samu is a better one. Water/Ghost typing Masquerain gives it the ability to get up Sticky Web while blocking Rapid Spin, it's i think the only one that can do that while still being decent. It also packs Quiver Dance to pose a legitimate threat to the opposing team after Sticky Web have been setup. Shadow Ball nails the phletora of Ghost types in the tier while Hydro Pump is Masquerain strongest STAB move at its disposal. Trust me this thing is a real threat. Water/Ghost also gives it an edge in a one on one situation with one of the most popular rapid spinners in Great Tusk. With Intimidate, it can prevent some physical threats from taking advantage of the turn it setup webs, and its Hydro is strong enough to OHKO Great Tusk unboosted if it kept its Ground typing, and 2HKO it if it didnt.

Ceruledge @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brick Break
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- Bitter Blade

Many people underestimate Ceruledge on Sticky Web teams with Flash Fire. Ghost/Fighting is self explanatory, and Bitter Blade is there to hit Normal/Ghost Pokemon with a decent attack when boosted. Flash Fire gives an additional immunity to Ceruledge being Fire, but most importantly, an immunity to Will-o-wisp. Brick Break is prefered over Close Combat for its ability to break screens, which sticky web teams kind of struggle against, while also keeping Ceruledge defenses.

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

The real demon of the team. Trust me, Fairy Electric Latias may have competition with Cresselia, but the more immediate power and Speed and access to Draining Kiss for recovery letting it not needing the use of Recover gives it an edge. This thing can end most games alone and is one of the most deadliest bulky sweepers ive ever seen. The new typing gives it key resistances to Fighting, Dragon, Bug and a neutrality to Steel, making Scizor unable to revenge kill it, and use Zamazenta as fodder. Electric also gives it a Thunder Wave immunity, which is always appreciated, and STAB on Thunderbolt, which has good type coverage alongside Draining Kiss. The Spread maximises physical bulk while also avoiding a 2HKO from Latios's Surf after Calm Mind. It also makes so that Cresselia's Moonblast never breaks the Substitute at equal boosts.

Most notable threats to the team:

Cinderace: While by itself Cinderace can be handled by some team members, its ability to use Court Change can be troublesome especially if it runs Heavy Duty Boots. Gunk Shot variants can beat Latias and Pyro Ball variants can beat Zama if played recklessly, so be careful. The most effective way is to pressure it with the leads and put it in a position where it cant beat Zama one on one.

Rain sweepers: While Rain isnt that common in the current metagame and can be handled by good plays and predictions, it is still a playstyle that poses a threat to Sticky Web teams, especially given the lack of Water resistances in this team. Latias no longer resists Water and while she can take some of the rain sweepers hits, she can be sometimes overwhelmed due to its lack of Water resistance. Most of the time, my advice is to quickly use Porygon Z to threaten them after you got webs up, as with them it can outspeed even rain sweepers after an Agility, and most of the rain teams cant handle its assaults. Then you use Samurott or Ceruledge to finish them with priority moves. It is also wise to keep Masquerain in the back if you managed to keep some health on it, as intimidate can slow down physical rain threats a bit.

Mirror Setup with Latias or Cresselia: While you can defintely beat them with good pressure, most of the time against those you will end up in a mirror setup situation using Latias. While she can beat them, she might ran out of pp after that and be useless, so be careful not to resort to her too early to deal with those Pokemon.

My thoughts on the metagame:

Pokemon that cause problems: Currently, there's no real Pokemon that is overpowered but maybe i'll say that Latias or Zamazenta can be troublesome. With a good typing those can get out of hand quickly, and kind of force checks into many teams to handle them.

Weather stones: Weather is always good in Camomons and with extanded weather stones available, it's even better to the point of some being broken. Torkoal can use Fighting to alleviate its weakness to Stealth Rock while giving it STAB on Body Press while Pelipper learns Ground type moves to turn its quadruple weakness to Electric into an immunity. Not to mention a lot of Pokemon can now benefit from the weathers like Goodra running Water, or stuff like Latios running Water as well, but also stuff like Venusaur can run Sunny Day to give them a fire type and thus STAB on Weather Ball. They might be too good to keep, who knows.

 

[Dorsia]

Hello there! I wanna talk about which is one of my top mon at the moment, it's just super good to pressure defensive cores from my experience.

The Monster

Hydreigon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast / Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Nasty Plot

I'm using Nasty Plot + 3 attacks, either Dragon/Fire or Dragon/Steel, including Earth Power to hit effectively most of variants (Dark/Poison, Water/Poison...) and other stuff without losing SpA with Draco Meteor. Even Water/Fairy can't switch in safely if you set up, unless there are AV.

The main issue this mon has is its speed tier: it's more than fine against slower things but there are faster mons that can come in and pressure you as well. So I was thinking using some Sticky Web to prevent that, but there might be this (bad) set as well :

Give Belch a chance

Hydreigon (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Belch
- Earth Power / Endure
- Nasty Plot

Here you have a cheap version of . Have fun using it but don't expect too much, at least Hydreigon learns Endure to make it work somehow.

 

[KamenAlliterator]

Hello there! I wanna talk about which is one of my top mon at the moment, it's just super good to pressure defensive cores from my experience.

The Monster

Hydreigon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast / Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Nasty Plot

I'm using Nasty Plot + 3 attacks, either Dragon/Fire or Dragon/Steel, including Earth Power to hit effectively most of variants (Dark/Poison, Water/Poison...) and other stuff without losing SpA with Draco Meteor. Even Water/Fairy can't switch in safely if you set up, unless there are AV.

The main issue this mon has is its speed tier: it's more than fine against slower things but there are faster mons that can come in and pressure you as well. So I was thinking using some Sticky Web to prevent that, but there might be this (bad) set as well :

Give Belch a chance

Hydreigon (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Belch
- Earth Power / Endure
- Nasty Plot

Here you have a cheap version of . Have fun using it but don't expect too much, at least Hydreigon learns Endure to make it work somehow.

You can always scarf the Hydreigon to outpace some of the threats in this tier, sure it leaves it choice locked, but the STAB makes up for it and can break a lot of things resist or not. Either way, these sets are REALLY good.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

The few games I've been playing have all featured me setting up Shell Smash Dark-Tera Strong Jaw Drednaw and sort of just clicking Crunch? Poison Jab kills the Fairies that resist Dark, and you have a fourth move slot that certainly exists. Superpower hits opposing Darks and EQ hits Steel/Fighting mons.

you should definitely not listen to 2022 PG and unban drednaw thank you

To be more on point, is a very, very funny mon.

Flying/Electric

Regieleki @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 156 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt / Thunder Cage
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

Flying/Electric, No Item

Regieleki
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 160 Atk / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt / Thunder Cage
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

Eleki's got so much speed it can afford to drop a significant amount of speed in favor of HP (or Atk if you're running no item), Acrobatics is an alright neutral hit into a lot of mons but it's mainly to give entry on random Ground type moves to either click spin or Acrobatics via ground immunity. I personally like Thunder Cage, because getting free chip on an incoming Glowking that inevitably is coming in is nice. Speed is to beat Deo-S by 2 points (any lower and you'd speed tie) and HP on the Sitrus set to have a multiple of 4, so you pop Sitrus after 2 rounds of stealth rock.

I've seen a handful of Electric/Normal Regielekis with STAB on Espeed and Explosion, and I've seen one running Electric/Rock with Ancient Power, but Flying feels pretty good. Shame you die to Chlorophyll/Sand Rush/Swift Swim mons, but hey, can't win them all.

Good? No. Fun? Yes.

 

[KamenAlliterator]

Mew’s colorful movepool helps it GREATLY in this format, also, in tandem with its decent stats, it can safely play defensively or offensively depending on the typing it chooses to use, or the team it’s put on, and it can fit on QUITE a few.

is a good way to scare off the Poison-type users of the OM, such as Garchomp, Iron Boulder, and Galarian Slowking. This typing also threatens Fighting-type users such as Gargancl and Body Press Archaludon too since this typing of Mew would normally carry Fire coverage to combat Steel-type users like Hydreigon also. Pure

makes Mew a phenomenal spin blocker that can punish the Rapid Spin user with its coverage to have the opponent constantly switching in answers at the cost of getting chipped, which works great with Magic Bouncd Hatterene if played correctly and carefully.

On the physically offensive side,

and

, in tandem with Swords Dance, are great typings to counter bulky Pokemon like Ting-Lu, Alomomola, and Water-typed variants of Kantonian Slowking, as well as STAB spamming wallbreakers like Fairy-typed Latias and all meta Typings of Iron Valiant too.

is a good check and bait for Fairy-typed Great Tusk variants, as Mew can withstand STAB Play Rough, and can check Tusk back with Iron Head after a Swords Dance.

Currently testing more valid typings for it to have

 

[Dorsia]

View attachment 785301

Mew’s colorful movepool helps it GREATLY in this format, also, in tandem with its decent stats, it can safely play defensively or offensively depending on the typing it chooses to use, or the team it’s put on, and it can fit on QUITE a few.

View attachment 785302View attachment 785303 is a good way to scare off the Poison-type users of the OM, such as Garchomp, Iron Boulder, and Galarian Slowking. This typing also threatens Fighting-type users such as Gargancl and Body Press Archaludon too since this typing of Mew would normally carry Fire coverage to combat Steel-type users like Hydreigon also. Pure View attachment 785360 makes Mew a phenomenal spin blocker that can punish the Rapid Spin user with its coverage to have the opponent constantly switching in answers at the cost of getting chipped, which works great with Magic Bouncd Hatterene if played correctly and carefully.

On the physically offensive side, View attachment 785356View attachment 785357 and View attachment 785358View attachment 785359, in tandem with Swords Dance, are great typings to counter bulky Pokemon like Ting-Lu, Alomomola, and Water-typed variants of Kantonian Slowking, as well as STAB spamming wallbreakers like Fairy-typed Latias and all meta Typings of Iron Valiant too. View attachment 785363View attachment 785364 is a good check and bait for Fairy-typed Great Tusk variants, as Mew can withstand STAB Play Rough, and can check Tusk back with Iron Head after a Swords Dance.

Currently testing more valid typings for it to have

Psychic/Fairy is fine to me.
I'm not sure if pure Ghost typing is that good, but since Mew have access to several Fairy moves, why not Ghost/Fairy?

If I were to go for a Steel/Flying SD user, I'd run with Bullet Punch and Dual Wingbeat. This typing is also very good when you have access to Defog - something that Mew cannot do this gen for some reason - especially in a meta where hazard stacking is easy when you have good spin blockers (Normal/Ghost or ).
Sure, Mew is faster and bulkier with a more complete movepool, but Technician can really make a good difference so give it a try as well.

Fighting/Electric is unfortunately blocked by Ground/Fairy Great Tusk, one of the most popular thing here...

Dragon/Fire is one of my favourite dual typing this gen, even if Water/Fairy is quite common, you just need a third move to cover that.

I haven't played Mew that much this gen, but here the set:

Mew under rain

Mew @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Volt Switch
- Nasty Plot

 

[KamenAlliterator]

Psychic/Fairy is fine to me.
I'm not sure if pure Ghost typing is that good, but since Mew have access to several Fairy moves, why not Ghost/Fairy?

If I were to go for a Steel/Flying SD user, I'd run with Bullet Punch and Dual Wingbeat. This typing is also very good when you have access to Defog - something that Mew cannot do this gen for some reason - especially in a meta where hazard stacking is easy when you have good spin blockers (Normal/Ghost or ).
Sure, Mew is faster and bulkier with a more complete movepool, but Technician can really make a good difference so give it a try as well.

Fighting/Electric is unfortunately blocked by Ground/Fairy Great Tusk, one of the most popular thing here...

Dragon/Fire is one of my favourite dual typing this gen, even if Water/Fairy is quite common, you just need a third move to cover that.

I haven't played Mew that much this gen, but here the set:

Mew under rain

Mew @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Volt Switch
- Nasty Plot

this is set looks really good, but you have to be wary of Tusk too. Also to clarify again, i’m testing typings, as most of them require good teammates, but other than that, Dragon/Fire was honestly the most successful of the typings so far, so i’ve expanding on that a little.

 

[Najeiw]

Hi, I topped ladder today so I wanted to share the team I used:

Team

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Dual Wingbeat
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Great Tusk @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 Spe
Impish Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Play Rough
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

Slowking-Galar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Chilly Reception
- Slack Off

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Iron Crown @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Tachyon Cutter
- Volt Switch
- Future Sight
- Psychic Noise

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Shadow Ball
- Scald
- Wish

I'm posting for the first time and on mobile so sorry if there are formatting issues.

The team is a pretty self-explanatory volt-turn balance. The two regen mons make pivoting pretty easy, but I think a big strength is that even the less bulky mons have a lot of defensive utility, especially latios.

These are the reasons for speed evs:
- Scizor: base 50s (bullet punch goes before kingambit's sucker punch and it lets you click wingbeat in front of ursaluna)
- Great tusk: outspeeds meowscarada at +1 (I haven't encountered many of them so it could maybe be lowered to cinderace's speed)
- Iron crown: faster than max speed great tusk

Speaking of iron crown, this thing can check and threaten a lot of mons, seriously. Steel electric is a surprisingly good defensive type combination. I'm baffled I haven't seen almost anyone else using it in ladder. Maybe people do use it and I just haven't encountered it but pretty underrated mon from my experience.

Moves:
The team has just tusk to hit steel super effectively so I've considered using close combat with scizor and focus blast with crown (replacing u-turn and future sight since I haven't clicked those a lot). But even without fighting coverage I have never faced a steel type that I had no way of dealing with. Some were tough but feasible.

Shadow ball in mola is useless but I think it really benefits from ghost typing.

Main threats:
Latias with thunderbolt, draining kiss, calm mind and substitute.
Some ogerpon versions are tough and I needed to risk some latios speed ties.
Specs walking wake in sun is tough to switch into (same as most teams probably) so the priority is going to slowking on torkoal and getting the chilly.
Garganacl can't be immediately pressured offensively, most times I had to take the chip on scizor to knock, then reenter again to bullet punch or wingbeat depending on typing.

So that's all. This metagame was extremely fun, I didn't feel like there was anything super broken unlike other monthly featured formats. Thanks for reading.

 

[Smallsmallrose]

The November Camomons Survey has come to a close! thank you all for your contributions to the meta! We had a lot of responses this time around, and a lot of data to work with!

Player info

Most of you appear to have come from the ladder and some are even just starting Camo, which was a welcome surprise, and I definitely saw more than just the same few Camo Discord lurkers that have been following the Camo tournament scene. New players are always welcome!

Is the metagame competitive/enjoyable?

While most of you actually believe Camo to be an enjoyable, competitive metagame, I've gotten surprisingly mixed responses on how diverse it's considered to be, I'd love to hear more thoughts from players with differing views on this. And whether there's anything we can do to keep the metagame fresh or if it even needs to be diversified more than it is.

Council Action

None of you feel particularly strongly on the balance of the elements the council mentioned on the survey, most of you being indecisive on their place in the meta, the only unifying sentiment being that players didn't seem too crazy about a retest for the banned elements, so we moved on to a deeper council discussion on whether the existing elements should be suspected at all and/or who we should go for first. We eventually decided on suspecting Porygon-Z, of which the suspect test is currently live!

Why suspect Porygon-Z?
There is a few reasons for this. The simplest one is that of the elements currently existing, it had the most calls for council action and the least players saying it's completely balanced. However, Its not by a crazy amount, or is it? You see, a lot of responses came in late, and while most of the pokemon stayed at the same ratio of council action vs no action, Porygon-Z skewed the most. It was consistently staying between 30-40% call for council action for most of the survey, easily blowing the other pokemon out of the water and only fell in line near the end of the survey's lifespan. It also got the most mentions in text responses. It definitely felt like the pokemon with the biggest target on it's back by the playerbase, and thus we decided it was the choice for a suspect.

Previous Porygon-Z results

These were the results we had in front of us when we were deciding on a suspect, and it seemed like the prominent front runner for council action. That said, a lot more people came in seeming unsure if this was the case, so we encourage you to play with Porygon-Z and make your own decisions in the suspect test.

Final Notes:
Between the tabs about how enjoyable/competitive the meta is, as well as almost doubling the turnout of the April Camomons Survey, we're very happy with the increasing development of the meta! We love the amount of people getting involved with Camomons, and we at the council are going to try our best to keep Camomons in the player's minds. We hope you have fun with the suspect test and enjoy the rest of the Camomons ladder in general!

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Sharing a trio of goobers I've been using to reasonably good results, and apologies to all of the ladder players who've had to put up with this.


These 3 solve most problems. (I run SpDef and , with phys def .) All 3 form a really irritating pair of passive damage, healing, and the ability to not care about anything your opponent is running outside of with STAB EQ. Terapagos in general is an incredible utility mon that I rarely ever click Rapid Spin with because of how great HDB are in a meta of Sticky Web and Spikes. Garg was the only Pokemon on the poll I 100% voted to ban for just how difficult it is to stop it from making progress, even if you know what it's going to do after you see its type, you've still got problems. Alo is infuriating to deal with, and I got so fed up with trying to counter + players that I decided to become an Alomomola user and begin to stall them out.

I've tried a few fourth team members.
Initially, for a way to spread Toxic even better, but Glimmora resulted in the team getting 6-0'd repeatedly by Steel/Flying .
Standard works as a better answer, but +2 Wingbeat still hurts like hell, Will-o never put in as much work as I hoped it would, and there's a LOT of mons that try to kill Volcanion. I went with max Speed max HP for a bit, just to get the jump on fast Scizors when running HDB, clicking Flamethrower or Will-o... Well, I mostly used Volcanion before switching to Alomomola, but even when running Alo+Volc it was just fine.
I've settled on Electric/Flying for Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and a very solid matchup against Scizors while providing an out against SD/NP and Ironpress mons via Thunder Wave and Air Slash flinches, which also benefits immensely from Wish support. Max Def Cobalion also takes the heat off Alomomola, because both of my other tanks run SpDef investment.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician (Steel/Flying) Scizor Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Electric/Flying) Cobalion: 168-200 (43.5 - 51.8%) -- 1.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 259-306 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Electric/Flying) Cobalion: 90-106 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 71.1% chance to 4HKO

It's not perfect, as stated Haxorus sort of shreds all 3 of these guys apart with a good typing, Knock Off makes hazards a huge problem, and Substitute mons also can prove a problem if Terapagos can't break their subs with EP or Pulse, but a Roar backline support can remedy the latter issue, and Haxorus doesn't like eating multiple residual damages and hates getting burned by Scald, and Spin on Terapagos is there solely for when my entire team's Knocked and HDB aren't live.


...Also, shoutout to Water/Poison for solving so many problems like IDBP or slow Webs teams where it can SD turn 1.

I'd actually revise my enjoyment rating on the poll-- I rated Camo a 5 or 6, if memory serves, but it just seems like I didn't figure out what would be fun this time around.

Some replays, I guess, none particularly serious

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9camomons-2484435382
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9camomons-2484563029
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9camomons-2484690975
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9camomons-2484602722-rsikmunq67ohrsyb9rn15mjrokcvu5fpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9camomons-2485279430-3gcabkp43mo5eqkhbr5e1hm4uoern25pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9camomons-2485292435-cfd1jvjfoiot7f5cdykxwh3ctar48hxpw

unban drednaw you cowards

 

[EchoGaia]

Urshifu defintely cant sd vs Masquerain, as it gets only +1 Attack first which isnt enough to OHKO it with Surging Strikes and gets 2HKoed by Shadow Ball in return. You lost one of your breakers in exchange for webs to not go up i guess, but looking at your team webs arent even good against you in the first place, and the masquerain user will gladly 2HKO your main breaker instead of getting them up. Ribombee outspeeds it and OHKOes with STAB Psychic, which it usually runs, or can cripple it for good with Stun Spore. Galvantula can OHKO it with Thunder before Urshifu even has a chance to attack as well. So tell me what web setter it can setup on???

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Urshifu defintely cant sd vs Masquerain, as it gets only +1 Attack first which isnt enough to OHKO it with Surging Strikes and gets 2HKoed by Shadow Ball in return. You lost one of your breakers in exchange for webs to not go up i guess, but looking at your team webs arent even good against you in the first place, and the masquerain user will gladly 2HKO your main breaker instead of getting them up. Ribombee outspeeds it and OHKOes with STAB Psychic, which it usually runs, or can cripple it for good with Stun Spore. Galvantula can OHKO it with Thunder before Urshifu even has a chance to attack as well. So tell me what web setter it can setup on???

I've pretty consistently gotten a SD off on Araq, and while I don't SD on Ribombee, its usual Psychic Noise isn't a guaranteed OHKO. (albeit I've since swapped off using Urshifu-R at all, because when it isn't Araquanid Urshifu can't, and it wasn't doing enough vs sun.)

 

[Dorsia]

Hello everyone, just some sets I was thinking of:

H-Decidueye

(M) @ Spell Tag
Ability: Scrappy
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Triple Arrows
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

Ghost/Fighting with Scrappy means you have the perfect coverage; Triple Arrows is a stupid move, yet I wish this mon had Poltergeist though. Anyway this set will allow you to hit any Ghost/Normal things such as .

G-Weezing

@ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Defog
- Protect
Poison/Steel + Levitate is really fine, especially when you have access to Defog, leaving you with a single weakness to Fire and plenty of resistances. The main issue is that you must run Gyro Ball for that, with a minimum speed of 112, but anyway the point is to chip down the opponent with Toxic/Protect.

Cinccino

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Bullet Seed
- Tidy Up
- U-turn / Knock Off
In a metagame where you can stack your hazards quite easily, Rapid Spin can be limited. So what about using Tidy Up? Defensively, Ice/Grass typing is awful, but somehow viable offensively, hitting most of bulky Water types, and notably the famous Ground/Fairy + Water/Fairy core (but beware of Rocky Helmet ofc). Once the field is cleaned, you can just pivot and come back later if needed.

Have fun while the ladder is still up! See you around!

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Well, with the Camo suspect about to end and my (failed) path to reqs, figured I'd properly share the team I've been using.




Team's built around spreading passive damage and Thunder Wave, slowly chipping the opposing team until 's in a good position to clean up, or getting in against something that the team can't handle and reverse sweeping.

is the primary win condition, hinging on the rest of the team's ability to spread status and passive damage to get the opponent in KO range, or to limit counterplay. Fight/Steel is the only Zama I'd rely on, as Dark means you accept dying to Fairy . HDB is an acceptable alternative for Webs and very Spikes-heavy teams, but I've found it to be not as important as passive recovery. Covert Cloak is also a very good option solely for the Garg and Water/Fairy Alo matchups, but primary is effective if you know the opponent either lacks a Ghost or their Ghost is frail, such as Normal/Ghost forms of or .

and as I said a few days ago is a very evil core of constantly spreading passive damage with Alomomola patching up for Garg's limited Recover uses and Terapagos's lack of innate recovery. Rapid Spin is useful on this team, as with the addition of , hazards now can actually chip some of the important members of the team.

Speaking of which, solves this team's problem of weather teams and powerful setup. Mostly. Sun , , and , as well as boosted REALLY don't want to eat their own attacks, especially for the former and latter if they have accrued boosts and have already taken chip damage, or are needed to check Zamazenta late-game.

Lastly, is a Swiss army knife of utility for the team: Stealth Rock to free a moveslot for Protect on Garganacl to stall weather turns, accrue Salt Cure chip, and passively heal with Leftovers; Thunder Wave to make opposing Scarfers lose to Ditto and opposing Zamazenta to lose to this team's; a pretty fine check to Scizor; and a flying type to deal with a pretty frequent problem for this team in Ground/Fighting . This slot's pretty malleable, though; can spread Toxic Spikes, serves as another Regenerator and can reset weather with Chilly Reception, can turn off setup attempts, and more.




This team isn't foolproof, all it takes is one mon that I don't expect and the team falls apart; Water/Ground Nasty Plot is the biggest issue, but others like Covert Cloak... anything can turn this team's win condition into a forfeit, can turn of Alo's Regenerator, and while the Sun matchup is winnable, options like Banded or Venusaur if Ditto is dead will automatically win the game. It's still a fun team to pilot, and Ditto+Alo can win most Regen wars if you play it right.

Good laddering folks, as this month comes to an end!

 

[Giagantic]

Porygon-Z will remain unbanned in Camomons!

Suspect Post in thread 'SV Camomons Suspect Test: Porygon-Z'

Dec 3, 2025

Suspect Voting is Over!

• Porygon-Z - Ban (3/10 = 30.00%)
• Porygon-Z - Do Not Ban (7/10 = 70.00%)

Thus Porygon-Z will remain unbanned!

• Giagantic

• 
• 
• 

 

[Smallsmallrose]

Twas the night of Christmas, everyone's mind was in a scatter. Smallsmallrose was still thinking about the November Camo Ladder. While everyone was opening presents and spreading holiday cheer, Rosey was staring firmly at the Camo usage stats right here. Rosey debated how far down the stats to dive, and decided she wanted to talk about the Camo ladder's top 35.

Great Tusk retaining its spot at number 1 usage was an easy concept to understand. Its incredible type combinations, it's flexibility, and utility all made it the most splashable pokemon in Camo land.

The blue boy of the Latis stands proudly tall as Camo's number 2. It's resistances, speed, offense, coverage, set variety and spikes immunity had us all saying "Dragapult who?"

Gen 9 did so much to make this more than just a simple stalling fish. Flip turn and it's varied type options give it the tools to sustain all kinds of teams with a massive wish.

Scizor at number 4 was the most shocking surprise. Though I suppose many players like a steel that flies. With it's technician bullet punch and a wingbeat that matches the power of Brave Bird, still having THIS much attention before now was completely absurd.

A well known staple as Gking only at number 5 seems completely silly. This is before you remember that it's Johto cousin also pivots with chilly. If the two kings shared a usage slot, any pokemon above it would begin to fear it's top spot.

The ladder and it's own suspect impressively displayed the threat of Porygon-Z. Despite blasting through everything, it avoided the ban because it had a flaw or 3. Despite these flaws it still stood near the top of the usage tower, then again its hard to dispute such raw power.

Hydra still makes top 10 despite the Latis checking and competing with many of it's sets. Though with it's rocks, nasty plot, and high power moves, it's still one of your best bets.

Garganacl went from lowkey in Camo's early lifespan to one of the most notorious in the tier. As a iron presser with it's ability and salt cure to make the ghosts that check iron press run in fear. The

sets are impressive as well. The only pokemon able to put it's own body press counterpart and many spinners through absolute hell.

I'm still of the belief that this is one of the best offensive mons Camo has to offer. It's high speed, endless type combinations and many utility or boosting moves give it a deceptive amount of options in it's coffer.

Once a king of Camo, now sitting at the end of the table most elite. Though not levitating over spikes and a weaker, more telegraphed boots set make this no surprising feat.

Ladder loves spamming immunity abilities, so this thing's usage was always going to be overly flattering. Though it's ability to set up swords dance and be immune to will-o-wisp makes this one actually good at sending teams scattering.

A blindingly fast Ironpress set is what Zamazenta has to it's name. Though it can only crunch ghosts, it's tough to answer and still won many a game.

Latias is a fine addition to many teams. Being a fast yet bulky

wincon, its even better than it's 13 on usage seems. It has stolen many games from under the player's noses, with all the questions about how to handle bulky setup it poses.

The anchor of any offense, there's nothing scarier than a Kingambit endgame. A few varied types and it's item choice means the check is not always the same.

The most interesting pokemon is Deoxys-Speed. Nasty Plot, eject pack, specs, hazard lead. This is one of the most versatile pokemon we've freed.

One of the last genuinely good immunity ability abusers finally rears it's head. Hard to remove a

immune to water, that also uses it's 130 spatk to fill many switches with dread.

Glimmora remains among Camo's upper crust. More than just a gimmicky HO lead here, it can shed it's base type for a defensive one you can trust.

Hatterene recently has really come into it's own. many teams now use it to bounce hazards freely, it's better than previous usage stats and VR rankings have shown.

Still within the top 20 is the dependable breaker Haxorus. With powerful moves and mold breaker, any teams looking to check it with unaware or immunity abilities start to look sus.

The other gen 8 Camo lynchpin barely makes the top 20 or so. Though not as dominant as it used to be, it's always something you have to have an answer for in tow.

Not the terror it was prior to booster ban. Iron Moth still has a lot going for it with it's power and type variety, I myself am a fan.

through the gouging fire ban, sun remains an absurdly dominant style. It makes me wonder if the council will have to look at it again in a while.

Gholdengo sits there and watches as Garganacl does all the spinblocking. The fact that this is simply ok is kind of a little shocking. I suppose the spinners are good at making it stay in it's lane. It also doesn't help that

mons can wall it if it drops Make it Rain.

The other mon that made regular tier spikes so controversial is now up to bat. Despite it's inability to abuse it's famous base typing, it's remained in use because it's still really fat.

Webs on the ladder was a pretty common plan of action. Despite many good users, Ribombee was the most used by a surprising fraction.

Hey Almost Any Ability, come get your man. While still quite a good pokemon,

makes abusing stab boomburst a difficult plan.

ANOTHER hard sun mon makes it into the top 30?! At this point, Camo is doing the other weathers quite dirty! Being able to shed it's rock weakness is quite a useful tool, and when its not weak to water either it can really turn rain and its banders into the fool.

I can only remember this pokemon as Siamato's baby, but making it into top 30 usage is actually quite good, maybe. Even a nerfed libero still has a lot of impact, and Court Change still gives it some solid utility in fact.

Seeing a pokemon as fantastic as Ting-Lu so far from it's VR neighbors is a little jarring. But it still makes it into the top 30 with all the special attackers and setup sweepers it's barring.

Capping off the top 30 is the mighty Hoopa-Unbound. Normally just a powerful breaker, assault vest has seen use and is a neat little trick it found.

Early in gen 9 camo, this was an undisputed top 2 of a meta most stable. Now after 2 DLCs of powercreep, it simply remains a decent option on the table.

Abusing sharpness in camo gives this a couple new tricks, while still using the same ceaseless edge to give the opponent many pricks. Its not a pick with a whole lot of new uniqueness or flash, is my guess why this has only made a moderate splash.

No matter how many flash fire Heatrans I bonk with mold breaker, it still made it into the top camo usage like a big faker. To people's credit I saw less of the steel/bug that I consider quite buns, but rather an interesting steel/grass with solar beam to completely stop walking wake and start blasting in a mirror between suns.

Hard to deduce it's role at first, the stellar turtle has now become a common face. Many good defensive types, toxic, and rapid spin, it's now truly found it's place.

Who better to end off the list of Camo ladder top 35, than Latias' partner in making us wonder if Calm Mind should stay alive. Bulky setup in camo is a tale as old as time. We can only hope that unlike gen 8, Cresselia stays in line.

Rosey looked over the top 35 Camo mons, happy with the ladder and how it went. It took her so long to make this post because she was so spent. Still, she loved this meta and all the people who played. And she loved always seeing the new sets and teams that were displayed. Camo was fun, and November promised a future quite bright. So Merry Camo Christmas to you all, and to all a good night.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Teamdump from OMCL (although just teams I think were genuinely good)+some VR noms and metagame discussion.

Finals (Vs Siamato)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9camomons-896866
Rather standard Grassy Terrain offense, but with Swords Dance Cinderace which is a cook I'm pretty happy with. I was trying this set out on BO/Balance on the side as well with Boots instead of Life Orb, but didn't feel particularly strongly about it. LO itself is super nice as it can confirm ranges on stuff you definitely would expect to survive.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 372-438 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
SD Cinderace also has some versatility in its move choices. I think Fire/Fighting and Fire/Poison are both good types, but Fire/Fighting probably wants Gunk Shot cause being Alomomola fodder is not great. Fire/Poison is free to choose between Sucker Punch for Ghosts (Particularly Dragapult) and utility and Zen Headbutt to hit Water/Poison types which are somewhat common. Anyway it's a particularly dangerous breaker imo, especially if your opponent has some bulky Grass or Steel types that you can setup on (it's particularly good into Weezing-G with its Burn immunity), but even if you can't get an SD, you can also just click attacking moves and make progress. Despite running into Water/Poison Garchomp and having few setup opportunities in the game, it did quite well, although I couldn't manage to get the rest of my team to do much so it didn't quite work out. The rest of this team is mostly standard GTerrain, although I'm fairly disappointed with Iron Crown. I was aware it'd be somewhat poor if I ran into a bulky Dark, but I just couldn't find anything else that felt consistent enough over it, HO options are kinda limited and inconsistent I find which is what stopped me from running it outside of this one game.

Semi-Finals TB (Vs jb291)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9camomons-895382
Pretty standard BO featuring my favorite Camomons Pokémon, Hatterene. The concept was to bait in Fairies or Poisons, often stuff like Alomomola and Glowking, with Mienshao to enable PZ to break, although since Shao just died in that game I didn't get to show that off too well lol. The rest of the team is fairly defensively-oriented although none of the mons are passive and Latias serves as a win condition. I also like how Taunt Landorus worked out, that move's good.

Semi-Finals (Vs jb291)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9camomons-894486
Not too much to say about this team, it's another standard BO. Has some amount of hazard stacking with minor spinblocking, has some status spreading with Hex, but mostly I just brought mons like Volcanion and Zapdos that can be particularly annoying to deal with.

Week 6 (Vs eeriespell)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9camomons-892380
This team is cute, Dark/Fighting Shifu threatens basically everything but Fairy-types which gets covered by Jirachi's Doom Desire. AV Rachi can be a bit awkward and I'm not a fan of having to keep AV mons alive through Wish, but it does work to an extent on this team. Fire/Poison Cinderace is there to threaten Fairy-types if Doom Desire isn't up, Shifu can just U-Turn into the incoming Hatterene or something and Cinderace can deal with it, I also really like it as a Fairy Latias answer since that mon can be a major issue. I close it out with Scizor for item removal and a semi-win condition with SD+BP and Glimmora for hazard control and some backup answer to Grounds and Waters.

Week 4 (Vs ExguardiaN)

(Updated)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9camomons-889516
I'm pretty disappointed with how this team performed since I do think it was a good build, but I figured out Cinderace would be a good slot very late in the week and didn't have time to test it out before my game. Once I did, I figured out I didn't need Hydreigon and slotted in a Ghost for some important duties like helping with Garganacl and Noivern. This is a fairly defensive team that uses CM Necrozma and NP Hydrapple to apply a lot of pressure and over a long time, with Cinderace as a backup offensive mon and a check to things like Latias. Necrozma's pretty absurd, it tanks moves like Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel without breaking a sweat and just kills Fairy variants, similar case for Tusk (although Headlong Rush hurts). I've also seen it 1v1 mons like Water/Electric Latios just by outlasting it despite not being able to deal much damage. I will say this team has a pretty rough time coming back from rough matchups since you don't have hazard stacking or anything else to pressure everything, so if they have something to wall Apple, some way to deal with Necrozma and a good Cinderace switch-in, there may not be too much you can do bar para fishing with Nuzzle.

Week 2 (Vs avarice)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9camomons-886004
The concept here was Garganacl with hazard support from Garchomp and Hatterene to spinblock and deter hazards from your side. Since Garg forces a lot of switch and racks up chip damage with Salt Cure, it obviously pairs well with hazard stack. The final product ended up being a bit Fire-weak, stuff like Cinderace and especially Volcanion can just walk all over it, but it's pretty fun to play with and what I did most of my laddering with in November.


Now for... I guess I'll just do VR noms to talk about interesting mons.

B+ --> A+
Yes, this is a huge jump. Either I'm delusional or this mon is like top 5 or close to it. Mostly talking about bulky Grass-type sets here, but I will bring up other sets if they come up.
Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 76 SpA / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball
- Nuzzle
- Pain Split
Bulky Grass-types are super super nice to answer Great Tusk who's definitely top 2 as well as to deal with miscellaneous Water and Electric types, stuff like Latios and Dragapult come to mind, but those are just the more relevant ones. Grass/Ghost can spinblock as well as stalemate Garganacl by keeping up its health with Pain Split while Grass/Fairy can answer Dragons a bit easier and deal with basically all Rillaboom sets. There are a couple other decent mons that can run Grass/Fairy or Grass/Ghost properly, but Hatt sets itself apart with its utility moves and, most importantly, Magic Bounce. Nuzzle is super annoying for anything switching in, even something like Poison/Dark Hoopa-U is just worse after taking a Paralysis and there's not really much most mons can do. Meanwhile, Pain Split, especially paired with Giga Drain, is a surprisingly consistent way to keep up your health and you can also take a chunk of HP off mons like Ting-Lu in the process which is nice. Finally, Magic Bounce is super useful since it can bounce back hazards which allows Hatterene to act as a semi-reliable hazard control, you just make a laughing stock out of the otherwise super annoying Normal/Ghost Rocks Garg, it also blocks stuff like Toxic, Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave and forces their users to be careful throwing them out and it helps in a bunch of other niches situations. In any case, both Grass/Fairy and Grass/Ghost are hugely useful for a number of teams and the main competition for those defensively are like... Glimmora for Grass/Fairy who is decent, but lacks in longevity (and also has a decently different role) and mayyybe Reuniclus for Grass/Ghost? It should spinblock well and dunk on Garg which are both nice traits. In any case, Hatterene is the most splashable bulky Grass-type. More minor, but still relevant, Hatterene is also pretty useful on offensive teams by running either Eject Button for momentum while denying hazards or by running a type that works well for Calm Mind, I've often seen Fire/Grass or Fire/Fairy for example.

A- --> A
A- --> A
Grouping these two together since the reason is the same: Fire-types are good, especially when they're not slowed down much by Water-type Glowking and Alomomola. I think these two make Fire work better than something like Hydreigon does, each in their own way. Volcanion, thanks to Water Absorb, is super annoying to force off the field and can just straight up 1v1 most Water-types and Cinderace has a ton of Speed, Gunk Shot to threaten Alomomola (and deal with Fairy Latias in the process which I value highly) and a fast and strong U-Turn to make dealing with walls somewhat painless. Ace even has some extra utility like Wisp and Court Change if it wants to use those. Volcanion is more capable of breaking down teams by itself, Cinderace is more of a team player, but at the end of the day, these two both take advantage of the fact that most teams usually don't have that many good Fire answer, with like 1 Water-type that they can usually manage quite well and maybe an offensive Dragon-type that might act as a speed bump. As a whole, I think they're pretty valuable for a good few teams.

A+ --> A-
I don't like this mon much, it just feels like a kinda meh offensive threat. Physical sets feel a bit too reliant on Close Combat as its other options are particularly weak so if you run into a Fighting-resist that takes your other coverage moves (something like Zapdos for example), it's probably losing that 1v1. Special sets have to deal with optimized types like Poison/Dark that they just struggle with as a whole. Iron Valiant is also pretty reasonable to revenge kill, most teams are gonna have something faster than it since, if you're not carrying Deo-S/Dragapult/Zamazenta/Cinderace, you need a Scarfer, but at least it tends to resist Sucker Punch ig. I don't think it's awful, but A+ feels very high for how much it can flop imo.

S- --> A+
This is kinda just a case of interpretation, but imo S tier should be reserved for meta defining mons and I think Great Tusk and Glowking fit that role; they are mons you should always be thinking about as you will face them and use them again and again. S- mons should also be on the cusp of that idea, but idt Dragapult, Garganacl or Ting-Lu quite make it. They're perfectly good, I just consider them less than I would an S- tier mon. Latios is relevant enough to stay there imo, but you could argue for it dropping and another of the 3 staying tbh, they're pretty interchangeable.


Oh hey I'm out of discussion topics. Well besides one thing.
I hate this fish.
Anyway cya next post, if that happens.