Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

[DEG]

+No reason for it to be banned ngl, it's not "proven" broken
+can shift the metagame to another environment without tipping the scale by much
+cheesable weakness, you're not forced to bend your ways to beat it, and since no zard x then you're not afraid of counter or anything else
+linear ev and moves wise

-Air Slash still does air slash thing but so does mega gyara w/ waterfall
-meta is balanced no need to add another element
-disgusting steel megas+zard y cores however adaptable since it was like that

honestly i can get both opinions but i'm more open to free zard y because it was never broken before (only got banned due to x) and we haven't tested it without x.

anw only way to fix ORAS top heavy is to make a mega clause (only one mega per team), otherwise it'll always be top heavy no matter what you're trying to do.

 

[neomon]

Back with the BW Survey results

10 people voted (9 qualified voters (QV)) (same amount of voters as post OGPL)

• On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame?

Average: 7,7 (QV: 7,9)
slight decrease from last time (8) but in general the metagames seems to be enjoyable for the playerbase.

• On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?

Average: 6,8 (QV: 7,0)
Almost identical to Post OGPL

• On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about _?

The results will be shown in the table

	Genesect	Meloetta	Haxorus	Tornadus
Average	2,9	2,9	2,9	2,1
QV	2,9	3	3,1	2,0

With no pokemon exceeding 3,0 nothing seems to be a big issue for the metagame as it stands. Haxorus has emerged as something that divides opinions, specifically on council. The metagame will be monitored over the duration of WCOP and afterwards, as usual.

• Tiering action

This time, we added a question if people support or dont support tiering actions for each of the mons mentioned by name in the survey.

Tornadus: 9 no action / 1 action
Genesect: 6 no action / 4 action
Haxorus: 4 no action / 6 action
Meloetta: 6 no action / 4 action

While Haxorus reached a majority on this question, due to the results above, for now, no tiering action will be initiated.

• Other mentions

Other mentions mentioned Snorlax as a potentially unhealthy pokemon, which was left of the survey. One comment was concerning the depth of the sets comp, which is going to be worked on in the near future.

 

[Elo Bandit]

TAKE THE SM 1v1 SURVEY
Give us your thoughts on the current state of the metagame!

The SM 1v1 Survey Results are out!

Qualified Responses

2/3 of responses come from qualified SM tour players.

Metagame Health

The SM Metagame is regarded as very healthy, with an average score of 4.3̅. The average score between qualified tour players was 4.25.

Metagame Enjoyability

SM 1v1 is considered very enjoyable by players, with an average score of 4.25, and by qualified tour players with an average score of 4.0.

Resource Quality

SM 1v1 has good but dated resources, with an average score of 3.2727, or 3.1429 among qualified tour players. The usum-resources 1v1 discord community has been working on an updated EV explanation document in a push to modernize resources for the generation.

Metagame Direction

The SM 1v1 metagame itself is in a good place, we just need to update and maintain our resources and set comps more frequently.

Suspect Testing

None (3), Dragonite (3), Metagross-Mega (1), Venusaur-Mega / Sleep (1)
No suspect test is planned for the near future, though we will continue to keep an eye on Dragonite and any other tournament breakout sets.

Thank you for participating in the SM 1v1 Survey!

 

[Felucia]

I learned my lesson from the survey post and will not write a long essay on ZardY and will keep it short instead. Like radu said, we shouldn't come at this from a perspective of "should ZardY have been banned" and instead need to treat it like any unban. With that in mind, I think ZardY is incredibly strong and potentially could completely snap the meta in half, it has an incredibly forgiving speed tier and EVs to spare to bulk practically anything faster than it without losing out on the damage to ohko a significant portion of the meta. Its rock weakness doesn't create many would-be checks or counters, because going down the VR I'd argue Greninja, Sylveon, and maybe Magnezone are close to the only mons that can viably fit HP Rock on their sets without significant opportunity cost. It's true that something like Metagross can tech zardy, but it requires 2 moveslots and high speed investment to do so.

All in all I think ZardY will unnecessarily constrain the ORAS meta if unbanned, hindering meta diversity by pigeonholing mons that currently have set diversity into running much more limited sets with good ZardY matchups, and overall being too centralising.

Edit: And yeah ZardY can also air slash any bad matchups but honestly I don't care about that too much

 

[LittEleven]

Undecided overall going to VR zardy / soft predict its impact on the tier if unbanned. zardy usually gets 1 move extra to tech stuff with 3 slots being blast burn / air slash / solar beam, meaning mirror is usually just determined by speed, zardy doesnt need flame charge as much as it does in sm i think? but can use it
Gardevoir-Mega - facepalm, edgy mu, air slash into blast beats most gardes and they fail to kill you with hp rock but they might click trick room and encore you -> 2x hp rock ?_? but then they lose to flinch turn 1 while trying to tech you lmao. idk not in garde favour to tech pretty much
Manaphy - y can bulk specs ancient power and endure on custap pretty unviable ; stall sets get a lot worse
Mawile-Mega - lol this mon needs its time back in jail more than ever
Metagross-Mega - tech war (sub/attack turn 1 from zardy vs protect/attack turn 1 from meta)
Victini - zardy should lose efficiently unless it's counter (loses a lot of its mus doing this)
Greninja - endure mindgames, flame charge can finesse sub
Heatran - rock move
Lopunny-Mega - endure
Slowbro-Mega - zardy should win with good evs unless you get thunder wave rain danced on
Genesect - i guess hp rock?? rolls but sect is definitely not as favored
Gengar-Mega - flame charge :( though specs can kill
Gyarados-Mega - stone edge gyara YAY I LOVE INACCURATE ROCK MOVES
Kyurem-Black - should be consistent with scarf or like some super spdef sets esp cause you can click fusion bolt without needing to setguess
Porygon-Z - endure mindgames
Sableye-Mega - bad rolls for sab and is critbait
Altaria-Mega - I LOVE AIR SLASH FLINCH
Chansey - seems pretty unlikely to get teched
Darkrai - can find multiple consistent ways to win
Dragonite - favored usually (scarf cant get easily countered on with rock move / mandates max investment to make it a 20% roll)
Meloetta - unfort you have to click beam to kill with specs so you can get endured/subbed on
Togekiss - i missed you before i even knew you
Volcarona - funnily i think volc can reliably kill with qd hp rock while running max speed so speed tie and tech decides this kind of?


anyway there are a lot more important mons in oras but zards matchups feel shaky and dependent on set for itself, in a way that promotes player agency imo; i dont think its going to be overly constraining to build around while also being a good mon to build fresh teams with. also zardy is nice anti cheese which oras needs imo (as a sufferer of pokemon lactose intolerance) so i support this, yes it probably sucks to get flinched but i dont think zardy is even starting in s tier if it gets unbanned and blast burn is 90% accurate so there will be a good distribution of karma for those who believe

pro unban even for wc but if it doesnt by then would really like ogpl4 to test it as a part of the tier

 

[Elo Bandit]

fast sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
Seismic Toss vs. 16 HP Charizard-Mega-Y: 100-100 (33.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


def sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 120 Def / 180 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 16 HP / 120 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 258-306 (85.7 - 101.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


spdef sub (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 240 HP / 4 SpA / 80 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Substitute
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 240 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 306-360 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 240 HP / 80 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 282-332 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The combination of Substitute and Air Slash allow Charizard Y to bypass its most direct counters a majority of the time. Stone Edge and Head Smash have 80% accuracy. Slow choice band rock types need to land five attacks (one for each sub, plus one for the last 1 hp) and avoid the Air Slash flinch on turn 5.
.8 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.22937 = 22.94%
Sub Air Slash Charizard Y beats slow choiced Stone Edge users 77.06% of the time. If the opponent isn't choiced and doesn't need to land the fifth rock attack, their odds increase to .8 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.28672 = 28.67%.
Let's look at some higher accuracy rock attacks. Rock Slide is a viable option to hit Sub Charizard more reliably, in theory.
.9 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.41334 = 41.33%
Charizard Y is still winning an uncomfortable 58.67% of the time. Let's check again without a choice item (4 attacks vs subs): .9 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.45927 = 45.93%. Still losing for the rock type.
Let's go out of our way and run Rock Tomb with 95% accuracy.
.95 ^ 5 * .7 = 0.54165
The Rock Tomb user is finally winning a slim majority of the time. Let's add a perfect accuracy move to turn 5: .95 ^ 4 * .7 = 0.57015 = 57.02%
Even with every stop pulled out, slow rocks struggle to get barely better than coinflip odds vs Charizard Y. I will point out that fast rock attackers (Terrakion, Archeops, Mega Diancie, Mega Aerodactyl, Scarf Stone Edge Kyurem-B, DD Stone Edge Mega Gyarados) do beat Charizard Y 80% of the time, which is what most players are used to.
I'm kind of ignoring a lot of other things Charizard Y does and focusing on the fact that with minimal opportunity cost, Charizard Y is beating its most direct counters a majority of the time. Charizard Y is an unhealthy and uncomfortably RNG-based element in the metagame.

...many Stone Edge & Rock Slide users outspeed Charizard (some with scarf). The calculations don't tell the whole story, but they are a step less abstract than a rock png. I was mostly hoping to demonstrate the zard y problem being deeper than "run a rock type lol."

Charizard Y flinches through its checks, meaning the worse player can get bailed and win.
Charizard Y also misses its imperfect accuracy STABs, meaning that once again the worse player can get bailed and win.
The goal is 'to create a metagame that is conducive to the more "skilled" player winning over the less "skilled" player a majority of the time...' Charizard Y does not fit with this philosophy.

My stance on excluding Charizard Y from ORAS hasn't changed much since both Charizard forms were banned. Mega Charizard Y warps the metagame around itself to an unhealthy degree and requires use of a handful of niche counters to avoid an otherwise uncomfortable level of RNG. Rock-type attacks are just not consistent enough to keep Charizard Y in check.

 

[crow crumbs]

Done with this tier for good

My patron saints of 1v1: Tapu Fini, gdarm icicle crash flinch, crucify

builder https://pokepast.es/39d902198bd60e4f

Only major actual metagame shifts to note from the past year~ is darm dropping and spect rising.

• Spectrier is more flexible than ever and lorb being the new mainset has invalidated a lot of historic counterplay (scale chomp, weak av mons).
• Band darm has just not aged that well with the tier. Zen can be strong but no one actually wants to run it and it usually sticks out like a sore thumb on preview. The mon just isnt flexible like it used to be. Guessing gdarm set has also become more comfortable as the meta has developed more and the holes created by each indivdual darm set get wider and wider.

Revaluations/other thoughts I've had:

• I grossly misunderstood kyurem for a while. I've always seen reliability as the best trait in ss and, while true that individual kyurem sets beats like 5 mons, kyurems effort input to tech stuff is incredibly low. Compare the effort it takes to make a kyurem beat tapu fini or zeraora vs a tyranitar teching those same mons. Kyurem's value is being able to run flagrant 3-0 fishes without having a complete brick preview.
• Garchomp definitely fell off to some degree but its still the most splashable ground, landot just looks better in comparison. Don't think there will ever be a point of 0 ground types in the very top tiers because zera is just so unbeatable without them. Would be like how banning the top 3 fairies would instantly propel azu to A+
• People tend to see Naganadel/Haxorus as mons that "ebb and flow" in viability and strictly perform based on how prepped for they are. I think these mons are Just Good since their counterplay is pretty limited to the archetype of statbomb tanks (or custap users for naga) like chople ursh, av landot, steela etc. that usually get run with stacked weaknesses to stall/encore abuser stuff (entei prim aroma koko etc).

Thank you to the fairy type and all the great people I've met.

 

[zo]

Done with this tier for good

My patron saints of 1v1: Tapu Fini, gdarm icicle crash flinch, crucify

builder https://pokepast.es/39d902198bd60e4f

View attachment 770104
Only major actual metagame shifts to note from the past year~ is darm dropping and spect rising.

• Spectrier is more flexible than ever and lorb being the new mainset has invalidated a lot of historic counterplay (scale chomp, weak av mons).
• Band darm has just not aged that well with the tier. Zen can be strong but no one actually wants to run it and it usually sticks out like a sore thumb on preview. The mon just isnt flexible like it used to be. Guessing gdarm set has also become more comfortable as the meta has developed more and the holes created by each indivdual darm set get wider and wider.

Revaluations/other thoughts I've had:

• I grossly misunderstood kyurem for a while. I've always seen reliability as the best trait in ss and, while true that individual kyurem sets beats like 5 mons, kyurems effort input to tech stuff is incredibly low. Compare the effort it takes to make a kyurem beat tapu fini or zeraora vs a tyranitar teching those same mons. Kyurem's value is being able to run flagrant 3-0 fishes without having a complete brick preview.
• Garchomp definitely fell off to some degree but its still the most splashable ground, landot just looks better in comparison. Don't think there will ever be a point of 0 ground types in the very top tiers because zera is just so unbeatable without them. Would be like how banning the top 3 fairies would instantly propel azu to A+
• People tend to see Naganadel/Haxorus as mons that "ebb and flow" in viability and strictly perform based on how prepped for they are. I think these mons are Just Good since their counterplay is pretty limited to the archetype of statbomb tanks (or custap users for naga) like chople ursh, av landot, steela etc. that usually get run with stacked weaknesses to stall/encore abuser stuff (entei prim aroma koko etc).

Thank you to the fairy type and all the great people I've met.

Good post. Agree with most of it, my top 3 is the exact same. See ya around

 

[LRXC]

Holy cow an ADV 1v1 VR Update! Yahoo!

also Marshmelto is on council now yay
Rises:

A to A+
A to A+
B+ to A-
B to B+
UR to C-
UR to C-
UR to C-

Drops

S- to A
A+ to A
A to A-
A to A-
A to A-
A to A-
A to A-
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B
B to B-
B to B-
B to B-
B- to C
B- to C+
B- to C+
B- to C
B- to C
B- to C+
C+ to C-
C+ to C
C+ to C-
C to C-
C- to UR
C- to UR
C- to UR
C- to UR

 

[SEROO]

Quite a late post but I've finally found time to give my thoughts on the Zardy-Y unban.

Honestly reading through post above aren't changing my thoughts on this and a few are just reinforcing them.

Zardy-Y is a mon that can threaten quite a bit in the tier which can be scary but it can also be beaten by quite a lot of the tier being custap for blast burn, random hp rock/rock move or just endure strats. I think it'll be a good mon to force players to play around but not to the point where it's unhealthy as it realistically can only run a single set cough until me and part get our hands on it cough.

Finally ima just mention the whole "air slash" scenario. Just be good enough to not get flinched 5head that's mons i can just run a scarf togekiss and do the same shit.

Unban this mon, while it will most likely become top tier , I don't think that's a reason to be afraid of it as it has more checks than Zard-X.

 

[torterraxx]

Hello, I am here to go over recent ORAS resource updates! Firstly, we have heavily revamped the sets compendium, you can find the new compendium here: https://pokepast.es/d52571d3b29ecb61 , the explanations document can be found at the top of the compendium! I have listed the change log below. We are still actively working on the comp, but wanted to release a version of it before World Cup started. I would like to specifically shoutout pqs and Felucia for their immense help in this revamp, this wouldn't have been possible without you both! Thank you to everyone who helped and made comments about changes needed, we encourage everyone to give their opinions on the comp and ways we can make it better.

Changelog

Additions
--------------------------------------------------------
Bulky Ice Wind Gardevoir-Mega - credit to torterra
Defensive Custap Manaphy- credit to pqs
Bulky Offensive Mawile-Mega - credit to Felucia
Bulky Offensive Metagross-Mega - credit to Felucia
Fast Protect Metagross-Mega - credit to Felucia
Rocky Helmet Heatran - credit to torterra
Bulky Lopunny-Mega - credit to Felucia
Fast Choice Specs Genesect - credit to pqs
Bulky Gyarados-Mega - credit to pqs
Thunder Wave Gyarados-Mega - credit to pqs
Fast Choice Specs Kyurem-Black - credit to torterra
Defensive Cotton Guard Altaria-Mega - credit to pqs
Defensive Dragon Dance Altaria-Mega - credit to pqs
Endure Special Attacker Altaria-Mega - credit to pqs
Bulky Special Attacker Altaria-Mega - credit to pqs
Bulky Choice Specs Darkrai - credit to Felucia
Analytic Life Orb Magnezone - credit to Felucia
Assault Vest Magnezone - credit to Felucia
Offensive Semi-Stall Venusaur-Mega - credit to Felucia
Bulky Offensive Venusaur-Mega - credit to Felucia
Air Balloon Volcanion - credit to torterra
Life Orb Entei - credit to torterra
Bulky Offensive Blastoise-Mega - credit to torterra
Fast Offensive Blastoise-Mega - credit to torterra
Lum Berry Donphan - credit to torterra
Kee Berry Zapdos - credit to torterra
Curse Swampert-Mega - credit to torterra
Offensive Swampert-Mega - credit to torterra
Encore Semi-Stall Clefable- credit to pqs
Stall Porygon2 - credit to pqs
Choice Scarf Porygon2 - credit to pqs
Life Orb Keldeo - credit to torterra
Choice Scarf Keldeo - credit to torterra
Choice Scarf Cresselia - credit to torterra
Bulk Up Darmanitan - credit to torterra
Choice Scarf Darmanitan - credit to torterra
Bulky Medicham-Mega - credit to torterra
Bulky Offensive Camerupt-Mega - credit to Felucia
Specially Defensive Camerupt-Mega - credit to Felucia
Bulky Offensive Heracross-Mega- credit to RADU/torterra

Removals (mostly merged into other sets / remade completely)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Modest Icy Wind Gardevoir
Fast Wisp Gardevoir
Trick Room Gardevoir
Punishment Mawile
Anti-Band Chomp Burst Mawile
Standard Metagross
Fast Metagross
Bulky WP Victini
Bulky Choice Specs Kyurem-Black
HP Gyarados
Stall Altaria
Dragon Dance Altaria
Hyper Voice Altaria
Facade Altaria
Modest Specs Darkrai
SD Landorus-Therian
Standard Venusaur
Offensive Venusaur
Standard Blastoise
CounterCoat Swampert
Specially Defensive Heracross-Mega

Tweaks
---------------------------------------------------------------
Renamed Fast CM Gardevoir to Fast Bulky, added slashes.
Renamed Encore Disable Gardevoir to Protect Disable, modified moves
Custap Berry Manaphy EVs
Fast Stall Manaphy EVs
Renamed Spdf Taunt Mawile to Specially Defensive, added slashes
Weakness Policy Victini EVs
Combined Timid and Modest Specs Greninja, modified moves
Custap Berry Heatran EVs
Fast Mega Gyarados EVs and moves
Custap Berry Porygon-Z EVs
Choice Band Dragonite EVs
Choice Specs Dragonite EVs
Sub Petaya Volcarona EVs
Weakness Policy Aegislash EVs
Choice Band Garchomp moves and EVs
Fast Band Landorus-Therian EVs
Bulky Choice Band Landorus-Therian EVs
Custap Magnezone EVs
Physically Defensive Registeel EVs
SubSeed Serperior EVs
Choice Specs Sylveon EVs
Curse Venusaur EVs
Bulky Choice Specs Volcanion Moves and EVs
Custap Berry Sylveon EVs
Pressure Stall Entei EVs
Life Orb Landorus-I moves and EVs
Icy Wind Latias moves
Dragon Dance Tyranitar moves and EVs
Counter Tyranitar moves and EVs
Choice Specs Zapdos moves and EVs
Pressure Stall Zapdos moves and EVs
Custap Berry Zapdos moves and EVs
Offensive Manectric moves
Pressure Stall Raikou moves and EVs
Bulky Scizor EVs
Specially Defensive Mega Heracross EVs
Physically Defensive Mega Heracross EVs

We have also updated the VR, you can see the shifts below!

VR Shifts

Rises
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
C- -> C
D -> C-

Drops
S -> S-
A+ -> A
B -> B-
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C -> C-
C- -> D
C- -> D
D -> UR
D -> UR

Lastly, we are actively voting on new sample teams, so new samples will be coming soon. Thank you everyone for playing our tier, see you in World Cup!

 

[Hypnotoad]

Mega Gyarados is now banned from LGPE 1v1! ​

Mega Gyarados was considered a healthy part of the metagame for a while. Its great Attack and bulk allowed it to naturally match up well into some of the best Pokemon in the tier, like Mega Aerodactyl with Waterfall and Mew with Crunch. Despite this, Mega Gyarados was one of the slowest viable Pokemon in the tier, only outspeeding Mega Venusaur and Alolan Muk for the high and mid tiers, and its weaknesses were quite exploitable because of this. Pokemon like Megahorn + Thunderbolt Mew and Rock Slide + Superpower Mega Pinsir, and even some low tiers like Thunder Punch Machamp could hit it super-effectively both pre- and post-mega while either outspeeding Mega Gyarados or taking its hits. Mega Venusaur and Zapdos also used their natural typings and great bulk and Special Attack to match up very well into it. However, the introduction of Thunder Wave into Mega Gyarados sets, while originally to help with Reflect Mega Pidgeot, proved to be an unhealthy force in the metagame, allowing Gyarados to outspeed and paraflinch most things in the metagame with Waterfall. Without the existence of EVs, Pokemon are frail enough to go down to two or three neutral Waterfalls from a Pokemon as strong as Mega Gyarados, meaning that the odds of Gyarados winning a matchup with Thunder Wave were much higher than you might think. Zapdos's immunity to Thunder Wave meant it was really the only reliable answer to Mega Gyarados, though Mega Venusaur's Waterfall resistance and high bulk gives it an honorable mention. The last moveslot was usually dedicated to moves like Taunt or Earthquake to help with Pokemon trying to boost their Defense like Defense Curl Snorlax and Acid Armor Alolan Muk, but some players even began to experiment with Headbutt for better paraflinch odds against Pokemon like Mega Venusaur and opposing Mega Gyarados. Ultimately, Mega Gyarados' ability to flinch its way out of almost any bad matchup proved to be too much for the tier, and we have elected to ban it.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Mega Aerodactyl is now banned from LGPE 1v1! ​

Mega Aerodactyl has quickly proven to be an oppressive force with Mega Gyarados banned from the metagame. Mega Aerodactyl's base 150 Speed means it outspeeds every single other Pokemon with a Jolly nature, and it outspeeds everything besides Mega Beedrill, who isn't considered very good, with a neutral Speed nature. With this and its naturally solid Attack, it can outspeed and beat down most Pokemon before they can beat it down. Many sets just run Rock Slide, which hits most Pokemon in the metagame at least neutrally, and has the 30% flinch chance to save it in a pinch, especially since Aerodactyl is usually using Rock Slide at least twice. Rock Slide naturally handles Pokemon like Mega Pinsir, Mega Gengar, and Mega Pidgeot. This allows Aerodactyl to run the combination of Taunt, Toxic, and Roost to beat down many Pokemon that try to wall it, like Mew and Defense Curl Snorlax. Mega Aerodactyl can also choose to run a more offensive set, with Wing Attack for Mega Venusaur and the rare Fighting-types like Machamp and Poliwrath, Earthquake for better Mega Gengar and Alolan Muk odds, and even Fire Blast to OHKO the rare Alolan Sandslash. Very few Pokemon could somewhat reliably beat Mega Aerodactyl. Physically bulky Water-type Pokemon, like Mega Blastoise, Mega Slowbro, and Kingler, can tank Mega Aerodactyl's moves and retaliate with strong STAB super-effective Water-type moves, Mega Kangaskhan can use its high bulk and Attack to beat Aerodactyl down with Thunder Punch or Ice Punch, and Rhydon can use its Rock-type resistance and high HP and Defense stats to hit Mega Aerodactyl hard with Rock Slide. Unfortunately, these answers aren't the best Pokemon outside of the Mega Aerodactyl matchup, and can often all be handled by partners like Mew or Mega Venusaur. Aerodactyl could also break through the non Rhydon answers with Rock Slide flinches. For all these reasons, we elected to ban Mega Aerodactyl.

I also wanted to include my personal thoughts for the future of LGPE 1v1. With Aerodactyl gone, I think the next Pokemon to look at would most likely be Mega Gengar. It would become the new fastest viable Pokemon, and can run both offensive sets with strong coverage, or Disable sets to take advantage of normal counterplay. Other than that, Mew could be problematic. Only two Pokemon really are reliable into it, being Mega Gengar (who theoretically could be banned in the future), and Mega Pinsir. However, Mew has to spread itself out a lot more than other Pokemon to cover its matchups, which might make up for its versatility. Only time can tell.

 

[Itchy]

https://pokepast.es/3f2884f944d7698d - from RADU
https://pokepast.es/11069a1de7433979 - from RADU
https://pokepast.es/fd26ad2916897a02 - from DEG
https://pokepast.es/d9d4c6360d6dc844 - from Urfgurgle
https://pokepast.es/7690c5a9dc83de8e - from Itchy

we (council) voted in new BW samples post-PL and re-evaluated old ones, this is the new set

 

[DEG]

changes that should be on the bw vr

S
Genesect

Techs everything without much opportunity loss. X-scissor on occa sets destroys hp fire mons that bulks bug buzz. It can run physical too. Choiced items are also good. You have to extra prep and have dedicated check(s) for it. Even volcarona need to fit specific moves/follow a sequence for it

S-
Haxorus

yea I mean betw choiced, and multiple dragon gem sets with a rainbow of moves and evs its really annoying to check. Does have more checks than gene + checks are from diff types/playstyles. But u also have to b xtra prepared for it and its harder to tech than A+ mons

Latias

Same as haxorus but combining two op typing in bw. Team Asia Sunday bw gaming=load latias. Choice items + dragon gem are xtremely broken. It doesnt need to tech anything it just either trick choice or cm on you and win by typing/bulk. Does have tech potential but that isnt what makes it S-. Lit has amazing MUs vs half the meta even steels lol

A+
Manaphy

Honeymoon is over. The offensive Acid Armor sets I made 2 pls ago have become a bit old and have lost their magic. People now know the manaphy MUs. Its still v good and get insane MUs but its checks are linear. It cant tech its grass/elec checks, latias and melo also have v good MUs into it. Meta lowkey more hostile vs it and its checks are a must on every team

Snorlax

On paper its brokey but like all its tech sets are bad lol. Band and bdrum are just too good that stuff like chople are have a real.opp loss. Its actually easier to tech lax than lax teching the foe. Still a good mon and blanket checks lot of stuff but its not really an s- mon.


BW still best gen if people act give it a chance and dont dismiss it for fun. Fair gimmick+not too chaotic+not too setguessey. Perfect balance.

 

[stravench]

The council voted and added new sample teams for DPP 1v1

https://pokepast.es/c6cea7b45d0fc159 by Euphonos
https://pokepast.es/ce447a9392bcff69 by Lialiabeast
https://pokepast.es/aed254b06a5c8aac by Delemon
https://pokepast.es/96130ec2201f06f8 by Elo Bandit
https://pokepast.es/4017e6ef52c7dbf8 by Stravench

 

[Mishlef]

Thank you to everyone who filled out the first edition of the unofficial SS Sets Survey. I am really happy with the number of results received! With 10/14 responses from players who played at least one series of SS in this WC, this is a pretty representative sample. I could if I had more time add the number of sets missing (based on usage stats), but I am too busy for now. Without further ado here are the results:

Cresselia

Primarina

Celesteela

Dragapult

Garchomp

Metagross

Spectrier

Tapu Fini

Darmanitan-Galar

Entei

Ferrothorn

Landorus-Therian

Porygon-Z

Urshifu-Single-Strike

Volcarona

Zeraora

Aromatisse

Azumarill

Crustle

Sylveon

Tapu Bulu

Tapu Koko

Togekiss

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike

Volcanion

Zarude

Zapdos

Kyurem

Tyranitar

Moltres-Galar

Regieleki

Venusaur

Landorus-Incarnate

Naganadel

Aggron

Rillaboom

Regidrago

Analysis and other commentary will be edited in tomorrow

 

[Mishlef]

Double post hype! Mishlef personally apologizes for the delay.
SS 1v1 Post WC Survey is now open. We encourage as many people to submit and let us hear your thoughts!

https://forms.gle/qdXxcoT8YNPxdXPw7

The form will close no sooner than 12/22 11:59PM GMT-5

 

[LittEleven]

The BW post WC Survey is now open, made by neomon . We encourage all interested players to voice their opinions on the metagame through filling it out.

https://forms.gle/k6yuDxG9eztJM4zH6

This form will close on 22nd December, at 11:59 PM GMT. Please submit before then.

 

[stravench]

DPP Recent VR voting have change the ranking of the following pokemon

Risers
A to A+
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
B to B+
B- to B
C+ to B-
C to C+
UR to C-
UR to D
UR to D
UR to D
UR to C

Fallers
A to A-
A- to B+
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B
B- to C+
C to C-
C to C-
C- to D

 

[Mishlef]

1. Playerbase

Thank you to the 17 responses to the survey, this is a decrease from the last WC survey by 6 responses and the last PL survey by 13. Notably there is a big decrease in the number of responses from WC players but this is expected with only 1 SS slot compared to the 2 in PL as well as the fewer subs that come from a pools style. This is most reflected with people who did not play WC but played competitively in the past few months having a bigger part of the people who filled out the survey. To remain consistent we will continue to classify "competitive" players as solely the blue and red sections as we did in the past surveys but the smaller sample size is worth being aware of. Novelty of the survey may be why the survey have been getting less filled so work must be done to avoid sampling an echo chamber of responses.

2. Enjoyability
We continue to use the same 1-7 system used in previous surveys so direct comparisons are more apt.

The average enjoyability of the entire survey came out to 5.82/7 with a median of 6, which means that most people lie between slightly enjoying the tier and regularly enjoying the tier with a slight lean away from only slightly enjoying. Compared to the post PL survey which had an average enjoyability of 5.14/7 which is a significant improvement. The average enjoyability for the competitive players was a 6.43/7 with a median of 7, which means that competitive players generally find the tier significantly more enjoyable although do note the smaller sample size of the competitive playerbase as compared to past PL surveys. This will be the last time the sample size will be mentioned. Similarly this is an increase from PL where the average was 5.32/7. This is a huge shift and is almost as perfect of a response as one can realistically hope for. An important thing to keep in mind is to not let competitive playerbase solely dictate the direction of a tier, however as shown with the average enjoyability for the entire survey, attitudes towards SS's enjoyment remain positive.

3. Competitiveness

The average for the entire survey for competitiveness of the tier was 6.18/7 with a median of 6, which means most people find the tier competitive and balanced. Comparing this to PL where the average was 5.80/7 this seems to be a decent uptick in the view of the tier's balance which alleviates some of the worry from previous surveys. The average competitiveness of the tier for competitive players was a 6.43/7 with a median of 7 which means both competitive and casual players tend to agree on how balanced SS as a tier is. This is an incredibly positive sign for the metagame and is essentially as good as we can expect.

4. Sleep Moves

Sleep remains the most controversial aspect of the SS metagame. While a majority want no action, there is a growing number of responses who are interested in a ban, increasing by 1.2% from last survey. However, of the competitive players there are 71.43% who are in favor of no change and the rest evenly divided between ban and unban. With this being the case, the council has decided that the best course of action is no suspect of any kind, but to continue keeping a vigilant eye on Sleep Moves in SS. We encourage posts on forums if your opinion has changed one way or the other regarding sleep but we are aware most people are relatively set on their opinion on sleep.

5. SS Bo7
SS7 in WC seemed to have been an overwhelming success. The vast majority of people that played in WC thought that Bo7 was superior to Bo5. Additionally, SS7 remains the overwhelming choice for CL for mainers and non-mainers alike. Therefore SS will be bo7 in the upcoming 1v1 CL.

6. Miscellaneous
6a. Bans
Nothing had more than a singular vote for a ban so nothing will be considered at this time.
6b. Unbans
Sableye alone was mentioned 2 times and everything else was mentioned no more than 1 time so nothing will be considered at this time.
7. Resources
Very few responses were given regarding resources, however, we will try to continue to work on keeping the set compendium updated alongside analyses.
8. Unofficial Sets Survey
This received generally positive praise and the plans are to make it official and a survey after every survey. There are some improvements that can be made, especially to the inputting of data that will be worked out before the release of the next survey.

9. Closing Thoughts
We are incredibly happy with the results of the survey with this survey being the best results we have received. We will be doing a survey after every major tour (PL, CL, and WC). We will continue to be working on improving resources and ensuring resources are up to date. Any questions or additional comments are appreciated please feel free to reach out to the SS council. Once again thank you for all the responses!

 

[crucify]

After winning in USA vs World in ORAS 1v1 Bo7, I am once again an ORAS authority and am allowed to make a post like this! These are my thoughts on what ORAS resources should look like pre-1v1 CL, including sample submissions and a viability rankings update. This is my first ORAS related post after Charizardite-X was unjustly banned, so I will give brief comments on each mon.

S
- a huge winner of the zardx ban. has essentially swapped places with metagross due to the way teams are structured now, for example more darks due to them beating vict. taunt burst, 4 attacks (fire fang, iron head, payback are all moves), hyper cutter if you are into that. note that non-sd sets lose to sableye-mega with foul play and wisp lol
- best mon in the tier overall post-zard, shocker. band (various EVs, fast, bulky, spdef even), scarf, custap, specs (various moves / EVs), shuca

S-
- another big winner of the zardx ban and a meta defining mon right now. just beats a lot of the meta and is strong vs common archetypes right now. standard wisp disable, specs, counter.
- nothing really changed for this mon besides the mu vs the predominant steel being worse now. still 2-1s a lot of teams and makes for uncomfortable preview for opp. stall (sitrus or chesto), specs, custap (still a good set)

A+
- has fallen off post zardx with the rise of mawile and gengar, and mawiles have been running iron head more. still one of the best stallbreakers and special attackers in the tier. non-trick room bulky sets are preferred now I'd say, icy wind encore type stuff. trick room is still technically usable though
- has essentially swapped places with maw. still a good no-nonsense mon and the second-best steel in the tier. should focus on running more spdef now since gyara has fallen off a bit, but physdef is still okay.

A
- my first time discussing blaziken. seems underrated, like it loses to vict and stuff but it is a meta warper for sure and the best fire alternative to victini., also the best fighting. standard should be wisp with some bulk for scarf kyub. can run anti gyara, can run special with hp ice, can run anti-mana solar beam. all the sets retain it's core steels mus while beating at least one mon that is commonly ran with steels, so it 2-1s a decent amount. most gardes should be bulked for it.
- just a good mon whose set diversity is surprisingly good at the moment. i think scarf should run mixed with iron head so it beats garde and toge. specs is kinda bleh rn, but bulky sets with metal sound to beat mana are pretty good.
- still gyarados, though it has fallen off a bit. less comfortable vs gengar than it would like, though its vict mu is better than before with less wp running around. better than expected vs maw these days, can run some eq set (eq is also goodfor zone). can get strapped for evs though since being reliable vs kyub can be annoying.
- still heatran. rightfully less common now since no zard, but still does well with its old sets. specs, scarf, helmet, primarily.
- kyub finds itself in a weird place right now with a lot of unclear matchups. when i was looking into it, the teams kyub finds itself on are typically poor vs vict and opposing kyub. can still punish non-steel teams. band, scarf, specs, reflect WP (anti steel), haban imprison
- unga bunga fake out giga impact. encore is best
- unga bunga hyper beam. timid specs or scarf. custap is kind of a thing.
- slowbro is slowbro. one of the top two most teched for mons in the tier, but its core matchups are good, and if you are Slowbro User it is very strong. scald and demon are both okay.
- sleep is banned no!!!!! a mon that is very difficult to build around, but you can kind of just bring the standard charm set (petal dance is good for mana and bro) or fast leech and get a good mu.

A-
- there's some cool things it can do. very physdef cotton guard can do things (beat maw). dd is the main set, mana mu being good is nice.
- blob
- darkrai did exist the last time i played! bulky sets are cool, with rocky helmet or custap. standard specs is decent. beating vict + mana is big
- a substantially worse mon nowadays searching for an identity. specs is worse darkrai, though it can do stuff with hp ground or fire or steel. idk it's gren, it can technically beat most mons on the vr but can rarely beat a large number at a time.
- in a meta where vict, gar, and mana are running amok, hoopa is cool. the issue is deciding which set to bring because it can easily lose to what you want it to beat. specs, band, scarf, custap.
- surprisingly nice right now. analytic sets are quite nice to build with. classic sturdy specs is also okay.
- weird right now, mainly because of how it interacts with vict and kyub. i think innovation and re-eving of the old standard sets could make this mon great. specs, cm with some item can be good for gar, maybe custap
- a winner of the zardx ban. can feast on vict maw teams kind of but it's set dependent. confide wisp taunt / foul play wisp taunt / foul play wisp cm. anti bro cm shadow ball is kind of a thing.
- kind of a loser of the zardx ban, but i think anti steel sets are quite nice. good mana and garde mu. scarf isn't good.
- the anti mana set is quite nice, as is less wp vict running around for the sub petaya set (though it does have to watch out for custap).

B+
- surprisingly good but suffers from 4mss. can run sets other than taunt burst to beat more things, but taunt burst is obviously very good. other moves the consider include eq, curse, superpower, avalanche.
- idk what happened to this mons usage and ranking. im still a believer though. maybe we'll see in CL. stall (similar to mew), pp stall, specs
- zard is banned but it still beats vict! unless it's running specs hp steel. a solid B+ rank pokemon. skill swap > magnet rise.
- better now for similar reasons as chomp. just run band unless you wanna run lum for some niche mus. note you get trolled by gengar levitate
- i've always been a fan of this mon because specs is nice and can beat steels. dd wp for maw is good. scarf is kinda ugly but worth using for the set diversity!
- band chomp is a good fish right now, iron tail is good for garde trying to bulk pjab. you can honestly run adamant and beat maw no negotions (unless its running pdef ice punch). scarf is usable, also with ada
- like a sidegrade to therian. does stuff with specs and scarf
- good for similar reasons as chomp. scarf, band specs, lum, some anti gyara set.
- specs pow! 100% beats vict mana! and other stuff
- Stall. kinda sucks that it loses to stall mana and demonbro.
- i mean it's serperior. chilan and occa are both pretty reasonable.
- an alternative fairy to garde. specs and custap are the sets, prefer custap though.
- slightly worse now because gengar being common sucks for it. but it still beats steels and fires. specs or scarf woohoo

B
- Choice Band!
- another alternative fairy to garde. the adv set (twave encore), specs (various moves), counter
- i mean it's a regular aggron level mon
- beat vict yahoo! iron tail is nice. band, scarf, sd
- i mean it beats waters! the A and below ranks hate to see this mon. jolly or super bulky
- THIS MON IS NOT CURRENTLY RANKED ON THE VR!!!!! specs is good
- THIS MON IS ALSO NOT CURRENTLY RANKED ON THE VR!!!!! helmet or specs
- unga bunga giga impact or occasionally some other coverage move. helmet counter can troll. otherwise just run band
- beats mons slower than it with spore imprison transform. mental herb and sub makes it more reliable
- beats vict yahoo! can troll steels with counter sets.

B-
- Stall
- good vs opposing fires and steels! loses to everything else and i mean everything
- custap and specs both do things
- av does things. pp stall can kind of do things
- beats waters! i prefer normie leech but you can run some helmet set or band
- this is mega latias. cm reflect type is kind of a thing
- a lot worse with no zardx. at least it can beat mana and garde kind of
- does p2 things. worse with no zardx and meta being worse, but still has decent matchups.
- sub tect with bulk for scarf vict is p good.
- custap i guess
- taunt helmet does things. gale wings is good in this gen!
- specs is good. you unfortunately cannot reasonably bulk scarf vict

C+
- idk why run this these days NGL. i guess kings shield mind games can be good
- stall is surprisingly effective and its best set. electric move cg eerie rest
- unga bunga head smash. worse now because custap vict exists. head smash is still 80% accurate...
- kind of does things but worse with no zard. aura sphere, dark pulse are good moves.
- ngl there's not many reasons to use this over mega. you can run specs kind of and shuca kind of. the original reason was running wp trick room for gyara which is kind of a thing but only kind of
- encore disable does things, but its less good with no zardx to scare
- ngl there's not many reasons to use this these days with no zardx. sd chomp with stats instead of an item slot i guess
- this is latios mega. there is not really a reason to run this over specs latios.
- can psych your opponent out when they think about sequencing vs it!
- specs pow! beats mana! ngl i didnt think about this mon much but i think it might be better than washtom
- helmet or sub tect. does things
- curse coat i think is best. custap regular pert is also kind of a thing
- the bw set with toxic can be annoying. specs is worse than specs thundt but can be unexpected
- the problem with zapdos is it being not great at actually beating what you want it to beat, e.g. mana and maw. stall or custap sets i think are better than trying to run specs

C
- encore disable is kind of a thing. no real reason to run offensive
- unga bunga fake out giga impact. worse with no zardx, still can do things though.
- struggles to find a good set. stall sap sipper was my preferred when zard was legal. i guess you would still use that now, or some defensive weakness policy thing to try and beat vict + kyub?
- can beat mana + maw with some mystery sets
- we beat vict and stuff! the set i brought in USA vs World was spell tag with wisp + taunt so you dont get trolled by maw sucker punch. spell tag secures vict
- a C rank fighting type. randomly annoying for some structures
- wishes it could beat more at once like you would want to beat opposing steels + fires with occa but you kind of don't. still kinda usable
- beats vict and steels and stuff!
- beats mana woo! stalls stuff but can struggle vs vict. the set i brought in USA vs World was maranga berry acid armor stall with taunt.
- let's flinch things down!
- trash but kind of beats things
- unga bunga sturdy C rank fighting type, can sometimes fish
- kind of beats things with like counter sd. generally worse than gene though
- unga bunga stone edge or close combat. not very real post zardx but it can be C rank
- wtf berry do you even run on this? i guess occas. i think cotton guard might be good

rest of the mons can be UR but notable mons: riolu, aron, durant, emboar, darmanitan, avalugg, golem, blissey, shedinja

Here are some random teams i built in 5 mins that can function as sample submissions (one i used in usa vs world). prob lose to random stuff but shrug ORAS has 2 samples rn: