Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

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Art by AmirAlexander
1v1 Old gens have become an integral part of the 1v1 tournament circuit in the past and will continue to be so in the future. We have three tournaments that include old gens, with BW and ORAS being the most popular. This thread will be used to develop these old metagames from ORAS to the first generations if we decide to go that much back. You can discuss the meta, resources, new techs and post sample teams here.

Table of Content:

ORAS
BW
DPP
ADV
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ADV 1v1

Bans: Slaking, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Mew, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Snorlax, Suicune, Wobbuffet, Wynaut, Flash, Ingrain, Kinesis, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Octazooka, Perish Song, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Destiny Bond, Explosion, Self Destruct

S Rank

A+ Rank
:metagross:Metagross
:tyranitar:Tyranitar
:zapdos:Zapdos

A Rank
:blissey:Blissey
:celebi:Celebi
:heracross:Heracross
:swampert:Swampert

A- Rank
:jirachi:Jirachi
:raikou:Raikou
:salamence:Salamence

B+ Rank
:gyarados:Gyarados
:milotic:Milotic
:regice:Regice
:starmie:Starmie

B Rank
:breloom:Breloom
:flygon:Flygon
:porygon2:Porygon2
:moltres:Moltres
:umbreon:Umbreon

B- Rank
:aerodactyl:Aerodactyl
:blaziken:Blaziken
:gengar:Gengar
:marowak:Marowak
:medicham:Medicham
:registeel:Registeel
:vaporeon:Vaporeon

C+
:entei:Entei
:miltank:Miltank
:hariyama:Hariyama
:houndoom:Houndoom
:meganium:Meganium
:scizor:Scizor

C
:alakazam:Alakazam
:arcanine:Arcanine
:clefable:Clefable
:cradily:Cradily
:jynx:Jynx
:venusaur:Venusaur


Key Mechanics:
- There is no physical special split. All moves are either physical or special dependent on their type. Including hidden power, which can be physical or special. Link: https://pokemondb.net/pokebase/40995/what-types-in-gen-iii-are-physical-and-which-are-special

 
Last edited by a moderator:
DPP 1v1

Ruleset - [Gen 4] OU, Team Preview

Bans - Latias, Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys-All, Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Latios, Lugia, Manaphy, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, Porygon-Z, Rayquaza, Salamence, Shaymin-Sky, Focus Sash, Soul Dew, Dark Void, Grass Whistle, Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Perish Song, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Yawn, Flash, Kinesis, Mirror Shot, Mud Bomb, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Octazooka, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Explosion, Self Destruct, Destiny Bond

Notable Bans: Sleep, Latias, Latios, Porygon-Z

Unbans - Wobbuffet, Wynaut, Sand Veil

Managed by: Synonimous
VR Council: Synonimous [leader], Kaif, Cabbbages, Dj Breloominati♬
Resources:
S Rank
:zapdos:Zapdos

S- Rank
:infernape:Infernape

A+ Rank
:cresselia:Cresselia
:rotom:Rotom-A
:suicune:Suicune
:tyranitar:Tyranitar

A Rank
:heatran:Heatran
:jirachi:Jirachi
:metagross:Metagross
:raikou:Raikou
:rhyperior:Rhyperior

A- Rank

:blissey:Blissey
:bronzong:Bronzong
:celebi:Celebi
:dragonite:Dragonite
:gengar:Gengar
:gyarados:Gyarados
:heracross:Heracross
:machamp:Machamp
:shaymin:Shaymin
:snorlax:Snorlax
:swampert:Swampert

B+ Rank
:clefable:Clefable
:cradily:Cradily
:hippowdon:Hippowdon
:kingdra:Kingdra
:moltres:Moltres
:starmie:Starmie

B Rank
:empoleon:Empoleon
:entei:Entei
:gallade:Gallade
:gastrodon:Gastrodon
:hariyama:Hariyama
:tangrowth:Tangrowth
:umbreon:Umbreon

B- Rank
:azelf:Azelf
:dusknoir:Dusknoir
:registeel:Registeel
:scizor:Scizor
:slaking:Slaking
:slowbro:Slowbro
:togekiss:Togekiss

C+ Rank
:abomasnow:Abomasnow
:aerodactyl:Aerodactyl
:alakazam:Alakazam
:arcanine:Arcanine
:azumarill:Azumarill
:gliscor:Gliscor
:lanturn:Lanturn
:mamoswine:Mamoswine
:porygon2:Porygon2
:regirock:Regirock
:venusaur:Venusaur

C Rank
:articuno:Articuno
:blaziken:Blaziken
:cacturne:Cacturne
:hitmontop:Hitmontop
:kangaskhan:Kangaskhan
:lucario:Lucario
:mesprit:Mesprit
:regice:Regice
:spiritomb:Spiritomb
:weavile:Weavile

C- Rank
:flygon:Flygon
:gardevoir:Gardevoir
:vaporeon:Vaporeon
:wobbuffet:Wobbuffet

:hippowdon::infernape::zapdos:
Hippowdon Balance by TonyFlygon
:tyranitar::slowbro::rotom-heat:
Slowbro Balance by dom
:shaymin::camerupt::rotom-wash:
Camerupt Offense by Synonimous and dom (ft. Boat)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BW 1v1

Banlist: OU Banlist + Sash, Perish Song, Whimsicott

Unbanlist: Genesect, Landorus-Incarnate, Thundurus-Incarnate, Tornadus-Therian, Manaphy, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Sand Rush

VR Council: Kaif, Wanonymous1616, ryyjyywyy
Resources:

S
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black

A+
:cresselia: Cresselia
:jirachi: Jirachi
:keldeo: Keldeo
:Porygon-Z: Porygon-Z
:Rhyperior: Rhyperior
:sawk: Sawk

A
:Dragonite: Dragonite
:Genesect: Genesect
:heatran: Heatran
:latios: Latios
:tyranitar: Tyranitar

A-
:chansey: Chansey
:jumpluff: Jumpluff
:meloetta: Meloetta
:manaphy: Manaphy
:snorlax: Snorlax
:slaking: Slaking
:scrafty: Scrafty

B+
:archeops: Archeops
:alakazam: Alakazam
:crustle: Crustle
:conkeldurr: Conkeldurr
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:gyarados: Gyarados
:garchomp: Garchomp
:infernape: Infernape
:mew: Mew
:suicune: Suicune
:terrakion: Terrakion
:victini: Victini
:volcarona: Volcarona

B
:blissey: Blissey
:Chandelure: Chandelure
:empoleon: Empoleon
:excadrill: Excadrill
:haxorus: Haxorus
:heracross: Heracross
:hydreigon: Hydreigon
:latias: Latias
:metagross: Metagross
:registeel: Registeel
:reuniclus: Reuniclus
:raikou: Raikou
:scizor: Scizor
:starmie: Starmie

B-
:azumarill: Azumarill
:celebi: Celebi
:cinccino: Cinccino
:durant: Durant
:gengar: Gengar
:jellicent: Jellicent
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian
:magnezone: Magnezone
:porygon2: Porygon2
:sableye: Sableye
:staraptor: Staraptor
:umbreon: Umbreon
:zapdos: Zapdos

C+
:breloom: Breloom
:bronzong: Bronzong
:carracosta: Carracosta
:cofagrigus: Cofagrigus
:darmanitan: Darmanitan
:golem: Golem
:galvantula: Galvantula
:hippowdon: Hippowdon
:landorus: Landorus
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash
:riolu: Riolu
:Togekiss: Togekiss
:tornadus-therian: Tornadus-Therian
:virizion: Virizion

C
:Dusclops: Dusclops
:gallade: Gallade
:moltres: Moltres
:rotom-heat: Rotom-Heat
:salamence: Salamence
:smeargle: Smeargle
:thundurus: Thundurus
:quagsire: Quagsire
:venusaur: Venusaur

C-
:aron: Aron
:clefable: Clefable
:escavalier: Escavalier
:gastrodon: Gastrodon
:murkrow: Murkrow
:politoed: Politoed
:weavile: Weavile
- super duper fuckin slow -
Forretress 116 / Forretress / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Gastrodon 114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Gastrodon 102 / Gastrodon / 39 / -Spe / 0 / 0
Reuniclus Amoonguss Slowking Slowbro 96 / Reuniclus, Amoonguss, Slowking, Slowbro / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Quagsire 95 / Quagsire / 35 / -Spe / 0 / 0
Forretress 76 / Forretress / 40 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
Bronzong 65 / Bronzong / 33 / -Spe / 0 (2 IVs) / 0
Reuniclus Slowking Slowbro 58 / Reuniclus, Slowking, Slowbro / 30 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
Ferrothorn 57 / Ferrothorn / 20 / -Spe / 0 (19 IVs) / 0
Ferrothorn 40 / Ferrothorn / 20 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
- slow -
Tier 5 (Max Base 45 Speed to Min Base 77 Speed)
Jellicent 182 / Jellicent / 60 / Neutral / 104 / 0
Skarmory Breloom 182 / Skarmory, Breloom / 70 / Neutral / 24 / 0
Wobbuffet 181 / Wobbuffet / 33 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Tyranitar 177 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 76 / 0
Skarmory Breloom Politoed 176 / Skarmory, Breloom, Politoed / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Scizor Vaporeon 166 / Scizor, Vaporeon / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Tyranitar 158 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Jellicent Abomasnow 156 / Jellicent, Abomasnow / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Blissey 146 / Blissey / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Tyranitar 142 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Spe / 0 / 0
Sableye Chansey Azumarill Tangrowth Donphan 136 / Sableye, Chansey, Azumarill, Tangrowth, Donphan / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Hippowdon 130 / Hippowdon / 47 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Conkeldurr 126 / Conkeldurr / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
- medium -
Landorus-T 281 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Gliscor 280 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 216 / 0
Lucario Moltres 279 / Lucario, Moltres / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Heatran 278 / Heatran / 77 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Excadrill 275 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Landorus-T 270 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 208 / 0
Thundurus-T 270 / Thundurus-T / 101 / Neutral / 128 / 0
Toxicroak Kingdra Heracross 269 / Toxicroak, Kingdra, Heracross / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Landorus-T 264 / Landorus-T / 91 / +Spe / 88 / 0
Gyarados 264 / Gyarados / 81 / + Spe / 168 / 0
Volcarona 264 / Volcarona / 100 / Neutral / 112 / 0
Mew Ninetales 263 / Mew, Ninetales / 100 / Neutral / 108 / 0
Breloom Skarmory Metagross Cloyster 262 / Breloom, Skarmory, Metagross, Cloyster / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Gyarados 261 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Dragonite Mamoswine 259 / Dragonite, Mamoswine / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Heatran 253 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Scizor Gothitelle 251 / Scizor, Gothitelle / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Dragonite 249 / Dragonite / 80 / +Spe / 124 / 0
Tyranitar 243 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Jirachi Celebi Tentacruel Zapdos 240 / Jirachi, Celebi, Tentacruel, Zapdos / 100 / Neutral / 16 / 0
Breloom Politoed 239 / Breloom, Politoed / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Scizor Gothitelle 229 / Scizor, Gothitelle / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Xatu 226 / Xatu / 95 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Landorus-T 218 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Roserade 216 / Roserade / 90 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Feraligatr 210 / Feraligatr / 78 / Neutral / 72 / 0
Magnezone 210 / Magnezone / 60 / Neutral / 220 / 0
Rotom-W 208 / Rotom-W / 86 / Neutral / 0 / 0
Gorebyss 203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Landorus-T 196 / Landorus-T / 91 / -Spe / 0 / 0
Heatran 190 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 0 / 0
- fast -
Mienshao 339 / Mienshao / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Garchomp 333 / Garchomp / 102 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Thundurus-T 331 / Thundurus-T / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Jirachi Volcarona Salamence Celebi Victini Mew Shaymin 328 / Jirachi, Volcarona, Salamence, Celebi, Victini, Mew, Shaymin / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Hydreigon 324 / Hydreigon / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Haxorus 322 / Haxorus / 97 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Kyurem-B Kyurem Darmanitan 317 / Kyurem-B, Kyurem, Darmanitan / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Landorus-T 309 / Landorus-T / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Moltres 306 / Moltres / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Garchomp 303 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Excadrill 302 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Thundurus-T 301 / Thundurus-T / 101 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Jirachi Volcarona Salamence Celebi Victini Mew Shaymin 299 / Jirachi, Volcarona, Salamence, Celebi, Victini, Mew, Shaymin / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Rotom-W 298 / Rotom-W / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Hydreigon 295 / Hydreigon / 98 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Kyurem-B Kyurem Sharpedo Gliscor 289 / Kyurem-B, Kyurem, Sharpedo, Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Mamoswine Chandelure 284 / Mamoswine, Chandelure / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
- nascar -
Politoed 393 / Politoed / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Magneton 391 / Magneton / 70 / +Spe / 252 (30 IVs) / +1
Gyarados 391 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / +1
Dragonite 388 / Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
Weavile 383 / Weavile / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Scizor Gothitelle 376 / Scizor, Gothitelle / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Gyarados 373 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 204 / +1
Dragonite 373 / Dragonite / 80 / +Spe / 124 / +1
Heatran 373 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 236 / +1
Alakazam Dugtrio 372 / Alakazam, Dugtrio / 120 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Tyranitar 364 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Starmie Azelf Raikou 361 / Starmie, Azelf, Raikou / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Magnezone 358 / Magnezone / 60 / +Spe / 252 (30 IVs) / +1
Tornadus 353 / Tornadus / 111 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Latios Gengar Latias Froslass Espeon 350 / Latios, Gengar, Latias, Froslass, Espeon / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Keldeo Terrakion Virizion Cobalion Infernape346 / Keldeo, Terrakion, Virizion, Cobalion, Infernape / 108 / +Spe / 252 / 0
- super nascar -
Hydreigon 486 / Hydreigon / 98 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Haxorus 483 / Haxorus / 97 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Kyurem-B Kyurem Darmanitan 475 / Kyurem-B, Kyurem, Darmanitan / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Landorus-T463 / Landorus-T / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Excadrill 453 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Jirachi Volcarona Salamence Victini 449 / Jirachi, Volcarona, Salamence, Victini / 100 / Neutral / 252 / +1
Rotom-W 447 / Rotom-W / 86 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Heracross 442 / Heracross / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Sharpedo 433 / Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +1
Gorebyss 406 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +2
Heatran 396 / Heatran / 77 / +Spe / 200 / +1
Gyarados 396 / Gyarados / 81 / + Spe / 168 / +1
Volcarona 396 / Volcarona / 100 / Neutral / 112 / +1
Aerodactyl Jolteon 394 / Aerodactyl, Jolteon / 130 / +Spe / 252 / 0
- super duper ultra extreme nascar-
Terrakion 692 / Terrakion / 108 / +Spe / 252 / +2
Thundurus-T 602 / Thundurus-T / 101 / Neutral / 252 / +2
Sharpedo Gliscor 578 / Sharpedo, Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +2
Moltres 558 / Moltres / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +2
Landorus-T 540 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 208 / +2
Thundurus-T 540 / Thundurus-T / 101 / Neutral / 128 / +2
Latios Gengar 525 / Latios, Gengar / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Metagross cloyster 524 / Metagross, Cloyster / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
Keldeo terrakion 519 / Keldeo, Terrakion / 108 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Garchomp 499 / Garchomp / 102 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Thundurus-T 496 / Thundurus-T / 101 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Jirachi Volcarona Salamence Victini 492 / Jirachi, Volcarona, Salamence, Victini / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +1
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Quote

Smogon's Resident Robot
is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
LC Co-Leader
ORAS 1v1

Ruleset: Pokemon, Nickname Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Swagger Clause, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Team Preview

Bans: Illegal, Unreleased, Arceus, Blaziken, Darkrai, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Dialga, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom, Perish Song, Focus Sash, Kangaskhanite, Salamencite, Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss, Flash, Kinesis, Leaf Tornado, Mirror Shot, Mud Bomb, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Night Daze, Octazooka, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Soul Dew

Unbans: Aegislash, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Gengar-Mega, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus-I, Lucario-Mega, Sableye-Mega

VR Council: DEG, ryyjyywyy, and Whaleeeee

Resources:
VR:
S

:charizard-mega-x:Charizard-Mega-X
:charizard-mega-y:Charizard-Mega-Y
:gyarados-mega:Gyarados-Mega

S-

:kyurem-black:Kyurem-Black
:mawile-mega:Mawile-Mega
:porygon-z:Porygon-Z


A rank
A+

:greninja:Greninja
:meloetta:Meloetta
:metagross-mega: Metagross-Mega
Sableye-Mega

A
:dragonite:Dragonite
:garchomp:Garchomp
:rhyperior:Rhyperior
Slowbro-Mega
:venusaur-mega:Venusaur-Mega
:whimsicott:Whimsicott



A-
Altaria-Mega
:azumarill:Azumarill
:chansey:Chansey
:gardevoir-mega:Gardevoir-Mega
:heatran:Heatran
:manaphy:Manaphy
:mew:Mew
:pinsir-mega:Pinsir-Mega


B rank
B+
:aegislash:Aegislash
:aggron-mega:Aggron-Mega
:ampharos-mega:Ampharos-Mega
:crustle:Crustle
:genesect:Genesect
:jirachi:Jirachi
:jumpluff:Jumpluff
:magnezone:Magnezone
:sawk:Sawk
:sylveon:Sylveon
:togekiss:Togekiss
:tyranitar-mega:Tyranitar-Mega
:volcanion:Volcanion


B
:archeops:Archeops
:blastoise-mega:Blastoise-Mega
:diancie:Diancie
:empoleon:Empoleon
:ferrothorn:Ferrothorn
:golem:Golem
:heracross-mega:Heracross-Mega
:hoopa-unbound:Hoopa-Unbound
:porygon2:Porygon2
:swampert-mega:Swampert-Mega
:victini:Victini

B-

:diancie-mega:
:donphan:Donphan
:keldeo:Keldeo
:landorus:Landorus
:latios:Latios
:medicham-mega:Medicham-Mega
:murkrow:Murkrow
:snorlax:Snorlax
:talonflame:Talonflame
:terrakion:Terrakion


C rank:
C+

:banette-mega:Banette-Mega
:clefable:Clefable
:entei:Entei
:gallade-mega: Gallade-Mega
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian
:latias-mega:Latias-Mega
:swampert:Swampert

C
:camerupt-mega: Camerupt-Mega
:conkeldurr:Conkeldurr
:durant:Durant
:excadrill:Excadrill
:hitmonlee:Hitmonlee
:lucario-mega:Lucario-Mega
:registeel:Registeel
:riolu:Riolu
:serperior:Serperior
:scizor-mega:Scizor-Mega
:skarmory:Skarmory
:steelix-mega:Steelix-Mega
:thundurus-therian:Thundurus-T
:umbreon:Umbreon
:volcarona: Volcarona
C-

:alakazam-mega:Alakazam-Mega
:aurorus:Aurorus
:avalugg:Avalugg
:blissey:Blissey
:deoxys-speed:Deoxys-Speed
:dusclops:Dusclops
:gengar-mega:Gengar-Mega
:haxorus:Haxorus
:relicanth:Relicanth
:scolipede:Scolipede
:slaking:Slaking
:smeargle:Smeargle
:stunfisk:Stunfisk
:suicune:Suicune
:vivillon:Vivillon


D

:abomasnow-mega:Abomasnow-Mega
:aron:Aron
:darmanitan:Darmanitan
:infernape:Infernape
:jellicent:Jellicent
:mandibuzz:Mandibuzz
:pidgeot-mega:Pidgeot-Mega
:salamence:]Salamence
:staraptor: Staraptor


Do not use
:ditto:Ditto
:magnemite:Magnemite


Do not use
:ditto:Ditto
:magnemite:Magnemite
- slow-
40: Bulky Ferrothorn
76: Bulky Sableye-Mega
86: Bulky Slowbro-Mega
94: Bulky Aggron-Mega
96: Bulky Slowbro-Mega
126: Bulky Golem
136: Bulky Aggron-Mega
136: Bulky Azumarill
136: Bulky Chansey
136: Bulky Mawile-Mega
136: Bulky Pre-Mega Diancie
136: Bulky Pre-Mega Sableye
140: Bulky Aegislash
146: Bulky Machamp
156: Bulky Aegislash
166: Bulky Magnezone
166: Bulky Sylveon
166: Bulky Pre-Mega Scizor
176: Bulky Volcanion
176: Bulky Pre-Mega Metagross
186: Bulky Heracross-Mega
186: Bulky Scizor-Mega
186: Fast Golem
- medium -
190: Bulky Blastoise-Mega
190: Bulky Heatran
196: Bulky Dragonite
196: Bulky Togekiss
196: Bulky Venusaur-Mega
198: Bulky Magnezone
206: Bulky Pre-Mega Heracross
216: Bulky Deoxys-Defense
216: Bulky Meloetta
218: Fast Pre-Mega Diancie
220: Bulky Gyarados-Mega
237: Bulky Manaphy
244: Bulky Gliscor
256: Bulky Diancie-Mega
256: Bulky Metagross-Mega
259: Fast Dragonite
259: Fast Togekiss
259: Fast Gardevoir
261: Fast Gyarados-Mega
262: Fast Breloom
262: Fast Metagross
268: Bulky Whimsicott
269: Fast Sawk
273: Fast Smeargle
278: Fast Heatran
- fast -
279: Fast Porygon-Z
281: Fast Landorus-T
284: Fast Togekiss
284: Fast Pre-Mega Gallade
284: Fast Pre-Mega Gardevoir
284: Fast Pre-Mega Medicham
289: Bulky Talonflame
289: Fast Kyurem-Black
295: Fast Pre-Mega Pinsir
297: Fast Genesect
299: Fast Charizard-Mega-X
299: Fast Gardevoir-Mega
306: Fast Deoxys-Defense
306: Fast Meloetta
306: Fast Porygon-Z
306: Fast Pre-Mega Lucario
317: Fast Kyurem-Black
326: Fast Genesect
328: Fast Charizard-Mega-X
328: Fast Charizard-Mega-Y
328: Fast Gardevoir-Mega
328: Fast Jirachi
328: Fast Medicham-Mega
328: Fast Victini
333: Fast Garchomp
339: Fast Pinsir-Mega
339: Fast Pre-Mega Lopunny
343: Fast Greninja
350: Fast Diancie-Mega
350: Fast Gallade-Mega
350: Fast Metagross-Mega
350: Fast Pre-Mega Gengar
351: Fast Talonflame
355: Fast Lucario-Mega
377: Fast Greninja
383: Fast Pre-Mega Alakazam
386: Fast Talonflame
- nascar -
388: +1 Dragon Dance Dragonite
388: Scarf Togekiss
391: +1 Dragon Dance Gyarados-Mega
394: Fast Gengar-Mega
403: Scarf Sawk
405: Fast Lopunny-Mega
417: Scarf Heatran
418: Scarf Porygon-Z
426: Scarf Togekiss
433: Scarf Kyurem-Black
438: Fast Alakazam-Mega
445: Scarf Genesect
448: +1 Dragon Dance Charizard-Mega-X
459: Scarf Deoxys-Defense
459: Scarf Porygon-Z
475: Scarf Kyurem-Black
489: Scarf Genesect
492: +1 Dragon Dance Charizard-Mega-X
492: Scarf Jirachi
492: Scarf Victini
499: Scarf Garchomp
514: Scarf Greninja
565: Scarf Greninja

Sets Compendium: https://pokepast.es/7ef488c4378a8c2b
Sample Teams:
:whimsicott: :meloetta: :diancie:
Double Fairy + Meloetta by dom
:gyarados-mega: :heatran: :greninja:
Double Water by dom
:lopunny-mega: :charizard-mega-y: :sylveon:
Sylveon + Megas by ggopw
:tyranitar-mega: :talonflame: :whimsicott:
Last Minute [rmt] by Uselesscrab
 
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Alakazam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_a1hPwXiWw
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
USUM 1v1
Ruleset - Obtainable, Species Clause, Nickname Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Accuracy Moves Clause, Swagger Clause, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Team Preview
Bans - Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Dialga, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kangaskhan-Mega, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Mewtwo, Mimikyu, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Salamence-Mega, Shaymin-Sky, Snorlax, Solgaleo, Tapu Koko, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom, Focus Sash, Perish Song, Detect + Fightinium Z

VR Council: Osra, Alakazam, I'm actually Cash, Elo Bandit, MaceMaster, Freddy Kyogre, lost heros

Resources:
General Resources: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-general-information-resources-ask-questions-here.3646761/
VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-viability-rankings.3646758/#post-8029321
Sets VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-sets-viability-rankings.3646825/
Sets Compendium: https://pokepast.es/f83a6a502d0141ca
Sample Teams: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-sample-teams.3646826/#post-7094792
Speed Tiers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-speed-tiers.3646928/
 
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suggest ban for kyu b in bw 1v1 ... This shit is litterally broken especially that fairy didnt exist in gen 5 ... so it breaks all the meta. I must take scarf haxorus to beat it ( and again it can tank if it is ev'd in def).
In fact Kyurem can destroy all the meta, it depends if it is scarf or band, or weakness policy...

Sorry but a 700 bs mon with mold breaker and a devastating attack base (which can be mixed with spe atck) is literally insane.
I ask for a ban.
 
suggest ban for kyu b in bw 1v1 ... This shit is litterally broken especially that fairy didnt exist in gen 5 ... so it breaks all the meta. I must take scarf haxorus to beat it ( and again it can tank if it is ev'd in def).
In fact Kyurem can destroy all the meta, it depends if it is scarf or band, or weakness policy...

Sorry but a 700 bs mon with mold breaker and a devastating attack base (which can be mixed with spe atck) is literally insane.
I ask for a ban.
On paper its pretty annoying but theres no lack of steels or whatever to beat this mon, and Jirachi being the best mon in the tier does it no favors. It has not shown itself to be broken in bw 1v1 in classic (loses to other shit like cress too, band or whatever has so much opportunity cost) and additionally absolutely nobody that had i think wco1v1 bw success wanted to ban it. I dont want a ban off the table but i really think this is you (who hasnt played bw 1v1 in tour at all) speculating. Much more broken mon on paper than in practice.

Again not opposed to a suspect later on but unless 3000 new sets emerge I don't think we should focus on it right now.
 
yeah i agree that jirachi is broken too... but don't forget that weakness policy kyurem earth power beat jirachi, and the problem is that only a minority beats Kyurem.
The thing i don't understand is : why kyurem is banned in gen 7 with all fairys, and is not banned in gen 5 whereas it is more broken in gen 5 than gen 7 cause fairy didnt exist...

Why you said i didnt play bw 1v1? i always play 1v1 bw in official, and i can affirm that three quarters of my loss are due to kyurem.
 
I'll have to agree with the call for Kyurem-B ban in gen5... Gen7 has shown how bulky KyuB can get, and past generations doesn't do anything less to play it down. Not only is its Choice Scarf that good, though it is, but its other sets are way better at handling its threat, with specially defensive Specs taking care of PZ, Genesect, Heatran, and other such Scarf-countering Special attackers, and physically defensive CBand countering Scarf-countering physical attackers like Scarf Chomp, Cresselia amongst others.. And there's the ever-present Scarf for the Speed factor. (Of course specially defensive Band, and physically defensive Band sets are also good, but that would make this post too much work; I'll drop some calculations just to show its tanking capabilities...)

The problem with Kyurem-B is that there is little to no opportunity cost to forgo speed for defense, or bulk for speed, which gives Kyurem-B an edge over the near entirety of the meta.

+1 252+ SpA Genesect Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 52+ SpD Kyurem-Black: 384-452 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Kyurem-Black: 385-455 (84.8 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


You might say that you can't run both defensive on the same team, but that is just a matter of what role KyuB needs you to do for the team; its extreme versatility makes for great presence for any sort of offense required for a team, and as a result of which, every team is required to run very specific checks like Band Terrakion, Kee Mew, or Cresselia, to name a few...
 
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yeah i agree that jirachi is broken too... but don't forget that weakness policy kyurem earth power beat jirachi, and the problem is that only a minority beats Kyurem.
The thing i don't understand is : why kyurem is banned in gen 7 with all fairys, and is not banned in gen 5 whereas it is more broken in gen 5 than gen 7 cause fairy didnt exist...

Why you said i didnt play bw 1v1? i always play 1v1 bw in official, and i can affirm that three quarters of my loss are due to kyurem.
Weakness policy does not exist in gen 5, lol. I'm saying you haven't played in stuff like BW cup but either way roomtours suck. WP literally doesn't exist in BW and this kinda proves my point about you not playing enough.

Not only is its Choice Scarf that good, though it is
Honestly, it's not a super good set.
but its other sets are way better at handling its threat, with specially defensive Specs taking care of PZ, Genesect, Heatran, and other such Scarf-countering Special attackers
This is a complete non-existant set. Have not seen it in classic at all. Not to mention it's not reliable to beat something like tran who can dodge a Focus Miss.
and physically defensive CBand countering Scarf-countering physical attackers like Scarf Chomp, Cresselia amongst others.. And there's the ever-present Scarf for the Speed factor. (Of course specially defensive Band, and physically defensive Band sets are also good, but that would make this post too much work; I'll drop some calculations just to show its tanking capabilities...)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 390-462 (99.7 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Absolutely NOBODY is gonna slap a scarf chomp on their team (ever, that mon sucks) and be like, "yeah i countered kyub". cress can easily reflect on kyub and beat it unless its running some toxic bs. We should ban a mon that abuses being versatile, not one that can.

This Kyub discussion from players who haven't played BW in a tour (yes i know about that young dramps thing that died) is pretty silly. You guys are talking about sets that don't or literally can't exist. It's a versatile mon that doesn't actually use any of the sets you guys say it does. Not saying you guys shouldn't have a voice you're both just not basing your arguments off reality.
 
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yeah i believed it was introduiced in gen 5, my bad.
But anyway it is insane, a 700 bs mon which can tank outrages, which can ohko nearly all meta and which have mold breaker... it's too much.

List of mons potentially beating kyurem :
scarf haxorus , jirachi, scarf latios, maybe scizor and ferro if he doesnt have hp fire...

You just have to put a heatran like mate and you cover all meta.

=> not broken
 

Osra

1v1 and I
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Submitting a potential sample team for Gen 6 1v1:
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Bulldoze / Rock Tomb / Substitute
- Iron Head / Meteor Mash

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Poison Jab

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb / Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Iron Head / Counter / Rock move if you're using DD
Pokepaste for convenience https://pokepast.es/dbbc044e05d6377f
Metagross and Ttar bulk most of the metagame while Medi handles some of the particular threats like Venusaur, Whimsicott, Volcanion, and Rhyperior. At first glance you might think the team gets bodied by Bandchomp, but Metagross actually bulks an Earthquake plus Rough Skin dmg and KOs with Ice Punch.
Metagross is basically just all coverage, each move beating particular mons like Tpunch for Gyara, Ice Punch for Chomp/Dnite, Bulldoze/Tomb for Greninja, Substitute for Mawile, etc.
Medicham is a go-to breaker for most bulky Pokemon, since Fake Out + HJK rips things in half, also having two coverage slots that it can do whatever it wants with.
Tyranitar is your answer to some of the stallier mons like Slowbro, Mew, and Jumpluff, thanks to Taunt. It's also bulked to barely live a Gren specs Cannon and outspeed it after a tomb or dd

Main threats to the team are:
  • Mawile, which you need Sub on megagross for in order to dodge sucker
  • Other Megagross, which Counter on Ttar kinda covers
  • A few other mons with really heavily on cteam-ish sets
 

CrashinBoomBang

MEIN BIZEPS BRENNT PERMANENT amk
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
High off my win this week, and (in my opinion) having a pretty good grasp on DPP 1v1 after following it, building for it, and playing it for a few months now, I figured I'd give some input.

First of all, some placements. I think Rhyperior and especially Cressellia are extremely overrated. Yeah, they're both still very good, and definitely require some very intricate counterplay, but the issue I have with them is that they are extremely easy to beat in the teambuilder with very little extra effort required. I think we can an all agree that both have one definite best set: SD Endure Custap for Rhyperior and Reflect CM for Cresselia. They're both good and beat a good deal of Pokemon. But again, they are extremely predictable and easy to tech for, and their other sets are about five times worse. Sure, you will catch something offguard with CB Rhyperior or TrickSpecs/Scarf once in a while, but that is hardly reliable, especially not with how common Mail is becoming. Compare that to the (in my opinion) best Pokemon in the tier, Suicune. Very good "main set", and even stuff that beats it "in the builder" is very prone to losing to techs, with SpDef and Wacan + Mirror Coat Suicune seeing use to beat Electrics. I think Suicune is the objective best because it can tailor itself to support the rest of your team instead of being stuck in one role a la Cress/Rhyp, and it can be tailor made to beat/lure pretty much anything.

Apart from that, there are some curious omissions: Torterra (probably the single best TTar/Rhyp check in the tier with some other obvious applications, such as beating CB DNite), Feraligatr (Literally beats the entirety of S and A+ minus Rotom and some strange TTar/Rachi sets, but they have to be quite specific), Raikou (How the fuck is Ampharos on there but not the mon that beats anything fat by itself and the one Electric that can halfway reliably beat ALL cune sets? Surely dumbass counter can't be that good). I also think Heracross and Hariyama should be a LOT higher given Machamps placement. I know that people love relying on luck a lot which I will get to in my next point, but Hariyama and Machamp are functionally very similar. One can luck slower mons and beats Gyarados, one beats CB Dragonite and Heatran. Heracross is a fighter with an extremely easy time against Suicune and Cresselia, and that also beats Grass types reliably, but loses to Rotom bar CB Night Slash vs Non Specs Overheat. There's definitely not this many subranks between these.

Lastly, the (to me) elephant in the room. Jirachi. This thing SUCKS. Now, I don't know if people just figure it's good here because it got banned in SM, but wow, this thing is fucking awful. First of all, the competition it has with Bronzong. There's exactly 2 things Scarf Rachi beats reliably that CB Zong doesn't (note the term reliably): Dragonite and Gyarados, and you need a fuckload of bulk to eat CB Gyaras EQ because TPunch definitely doesn't OHKO. That's pretty much the end of the list, but it's two relatively minor Pokemon given that they both have 1.5 sets and a readily abusable 4x weakness each. Why did I use the term reliably? Because, against half the tier, yes, technically you can win, but it requires a TON of flinches in most cases. Let's take a look at the upper ranks:<br />
<br />
Cresselia: If it gets up Reflect you're up shit creek without a paddle. This is actually one of Jirachi's easier matchups just because Cresselia can't hurt you, meaning you probably get the full 24 PP. If you run out and Cresselia is alive, you lose. Trick can work, but Mail is getting quite common.

Rhyperior: Loss unless you use the bulkiest Jirachi in the world and flinch twice. You can tech GK, but given the fact that Rhyperior loses little from using Endure T1, that's a poor solution.

Heatran: Loss.

Infernape: Bulky Scarf ZH beats all non bulky Infernape reliably, but ZH is hard to fit on. Very likely loss without Zen.

Jirachi: -

Rotom: Extremely likely to lose to the best Rotom set (Bulky Specs Rotom-H). Needs too many flinches and Overheat cooks you. Other formes 2HKO with TBolt. Actually favored against Scarfed because TBolt doesnt 2hko and Scarf is really frail, but Scarf Rotom is also really bad.

Suicune: Trick beats non Mail, otherwise you need a crit with TPunch before you run out of PP, which isn't in your favor with Pressure. Mail is one of the only two items Suicune should carry, and dropping TP is an instant loss bar ZH luck.

Tyranitar: Actually not as much in Jirachi's favor as you'd think. 60% to flinch, and should you not, CB EQ OHKOs you. Beats non CB EQ/Counter TTar reliably.

Blissey: Counter OHKOs you and, again, Trick is a big gamble with the prevalence of Mail. Needs at least 2, if not 3 flinches (36 and 20% respectively.)

Celebi: Very reliant on the Celebi set. If you run Bulky Scarf, Scarf Celebi will probably outspeed you, but Scarf EP is quite rare. Needs 2 out of 3 flinches against bulky Specs which is certainly in Jirachis favor but hardly reliable.

Dragonite: Jirachi should win this every time.

Gengar: Jirachi should win this every time bar Scarf Gengar getting extremely lucky.

Metagross: Very unlikely for Jirachi to win, Gross is way too strong and bulky. EQ 2HKOs and CB can OHKO. Legitimately needs like 6 flinches.

Snorlax: Trick is risky because CB Lax is gonna smash you, and if you don't flinch Curse then it'll give you a hard time as well. I wanna say Jirachi is favored, but it definitely isn't a lot.

Zapdos: Bulky Specs is going to send you to hell with Heat Wave. IHead needs way too many flinches. If you can somehow EV for Heat Wave while 2HKOing with Ice Punch then you are approaching "safe" territory. Still sounds like a bad investment.

And keep in mind that this was only the top 3 ranks and Jirachi still barely has any good matchups that don't involve massive luck. Further down we get stuff like Swampert (resists IH with no good weakness to hit and has STAB EQ), Slaking (252+ needs 3 flinches every time and CB EQ OHKOs regardless of bulk), Torterra (lives IP and OHKOs with CB EQ), and a ton more. It just makes no sense to me. Of course, this only talks about ScarfRachi, but that is by far its most common set. You can run some weird lure sets, but why? Bronzong is a lot better at this unless you really need the speed because it can choose its matchups with two amazing abilities compared to (in a lure context) bad Serene Grace. Please move this trash down.

That's all for now! If you have any questions about anything I said, please let me know! DPP OU may be godawful, but I think DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun!
 
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High off my win this week, and (in my opinion) having a pretty good grasp on DPP 1v1 after following it, building for it, and playing it for a few months now, I figured I'd give some input.

First of all, some placements. I think Rhyperior and especially Cressellia are extremely overrated. Yeah, they're both still very good, and definitely require some very intricate counterplay, but the issue I have with them is that they are extremely easy to beat in the teambuilder with very little extra effort required. I think we can an all agree that both have one definite best set: SD Endure Custap for Rhyperior and Reflect CM for Cresselia. They're both good and beat a good deal of Pokemon. But again, they are extremely predictable and easy to tech for, and their other sets are about five times worse. Sure, you will catch something offguard with CB Rhyperior or TrickSpecs/Scarf once in a while, but that is hardly reliable, especially not with how common Mail is becoming. Compare that to the (in my opinion) best Pokemon in the tier, Suicune. Very good "main set", and even stuff that beats it "in the builder" is very prone to losing to techs, with SpDef and Wacan + Mirror Coat Suicune seeing use to beat Electrics. I think Suicune is the objective best because it can tailor itself to support the rest of your team instead of being stuck in one role a la Cress/Rhyp, and it can be tailor made to beat/lure pretty much anything.

Apart from that, there are some curious omissions: Torterra (probably the single best TTar/Rhyp check in the tier with some other obvious applications, such as beating CB DNite), Feraligatr (Literally beats the entirety of S and A+ minus Rotom and some strange TTar/Rachi sets, but they have to be quite specific), Raikou (How the fuck is Ampharos on there but not the mon that beats anything fat by itself and the one Electric that can halfway reliably beat ALL cune sets? Surely dumbass counter can't be that good). I also think Heracross and Hariyama should be a LOT higher given Machamps placement. I know that people love relying on luck a lot which I will get to in my next point, but Hariyama and Machamp are functionally very similar. One can luck slower mons and beats Gyarados, one beats CB Dragonite and Heatran. Heracross is a fighter with an extremely easy time against Suicune and Cresselia, and that also beats Grass types reliably, but loses to Rotom bar CB Night Slash vs Non Specs Overheat. There's definitely not this many subranks between these.

Lastly, the (to me) elephant in the room. Jirachi. This thing SUCKS. Now, I don't know if people just figure it's good here because it got banned in SM, but wow, this thing is fucking awful. First of all, the competition it has with Bronzong. There's exactly 2 things Scarf Rachi beats reliably that CB Zong doesn't (note the term reliably): Dragonite and Gyarados, and you need a fuckload of bulk to eat CB Gyaras EQ because TPunch definitely doesn't OHKO. That's pretty much the end of the list, but it's two relatively minor Pokemon given that they both have 1.5 sets and a readily abusable 4x weakness each. Why did I use the term reliably? Because, against half the tier, yes, technically you can win, but it requires a TON of flinches in most cases. Let's take a look at the upper ranks:<br />
<br />
Cresselia: If it gets up Reflect you're up shit creek without a paddle. This is actually one of Jirachi's easier matchups just because Cresselia can't hurt you, meaning you probably get the full 24 PP. If you run out and Cresselia is alive, you lose. Trick can work, but Mail is getting quite common.

Rhyperior: Loss unless you use the bulkiest Jirachi in the world and flinch twice. You can tech GK, but given the fact that Rhyperior loses little from using Endure T1, that's a poor solution.

Heatran: Loss.

Infernape: Bulky Scarf ZH beats all non bulky Infernape reliably, but ZH is hard to fit on. Very likely loss without Zen.

Jirachi: -

Rotom: Extremely likely to lose to the best Rotom set (Bulky Specs Rotom-H). Needs too many flinches and Overheat cooks you. Other formes 2HKO with TBolt. Actually favored against Scarfed because TBolt doesnt 2hko and Scarf is really frail, but Scarf Rotom is also really bad.

Suicune: Trick beats non Mail, otherwise you need a crit with TPunch before you run out of PP, which isn't in your favor with Pressure. Mail is one of the only two items Suicune should carry, and dropping TP is an instant loss bar ZH luck.

Tyranitar: Actually not as much in Jirachi's favor as you'd think. 60% to flinch, and should you not, CB EQ OHKOs you. Beats non CB EQ/Counter TTar reliably.

Blissey: Counter OHKOs you and, again, Trick is a big gamble with the prevalence of Mail. Needs at least 2, if not 3 flinches (36 and 20% respectively.)

Celebi: Very reliant on the Celebi set. If you run Bulky Scarf, Scarf Celebi will probably outspeed you, but Scarf EP is quite rare. Needs 2 out of 3 flinches against bulky Specs which is certainly in Jirachis favor but hardly reliable.

Dragonite: Jirachi should win this every time.

Gengar: Jirachi should win this every time bar Scarf Gengar getting extremely lucky.

Metagross: Very unlikely for Jirachi to win, Gross is way too strong and bulky. EQ 2HKOs and CB can OHKO. Legitimately needs like 6 flinches.

Snorlax: Trick is risky because CB Lax is gonna smash you, and if you don't flinch Curse then it'll give you a hard time as well. I wanna say Jirachi is favored, but it definitely isn't a lot.

Zapdos: Bulky Specs is going to send you to hell with Heat Wave. IHead needs way too many flinches. If you can somehow EV for Heat Wave while 2HKOing with Ice Punch then you are approaching "safe" territory. Still sounds like a bad investment.

And keep in mind that this was only the top 3 ranks and Jirachi still barely has any good matchups that don't involve massive luck. Further down we get stuff like Swampert (resists IH with no good weakness to hit and has STAB EQ), Slaking (252+ needs 3 flinches every time and CB EQ OHKOs regardless of bulk), Torterra (lives IP and OHKOs with CB EQ), and a ton more. It just makes no sense to me. Of course, this only talks about ScarfRachi, but that is by far its most common set. You can run some weird lure sets, but why? Bronzong is a lot better at this unless you really need the speed because it can choose its matchups with two amazing abilities compared to (in a lure context) bad Serene Grace. Please move this trash down.

That's all for now! If you have any questions about anything I said, please let me know! DPP OU may be godawful, but I think DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun!
Well first off I agree DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun. I also fully agree torterra is really good. As for raikou, Dom nommed it to a- a while ago and we never objected so ig dom forgot to put it in. Torterra was nommed for c but tbh I feel like it's better than c. I'll bring it up to the VR team. I also agree Suicune is so good. I think it could be an s rank mon. I'll bring it up also. I'll also bring up ranking Feraligatr. However, I disagree about cress and rhyperior not being worthy of s rank. Cress is insanely bulky and there aren't very many viable mons (mainly bug/dark/ghost/swords dance/metal sound) that can beat it. Rhyperior has a super high attack stat + 150 bp attack + swords dance + solid rock. It's pretty def bulky and can just endure vs special atttacks. It beats a lot of the meta and is really good. Keep in mind that just because a mon has one set that doesn't mean it's bad. Lastly, I see your point about jirachi, but I'd like to say that special attacker jirachi is also viable, as well as cosmic power wish/rest. Now even with that said, I still agree with moving it down from a+. Thank you for taking the time to discuss the VR. :)
 
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CrashinBoomBang

MEIN BIZEPS BRENNT PERMANENT amk
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Well first off I agree DPP 1v1 is a lot of fun. I also fully agree torterra is really good. As for raikou, Dom nommed it to a- a while ago and we never objected so ig dom forgot to put it in. Torterra was nommed for c but tbh I feel like it's better than c. I'll bring it up to the VR team. I also agree Suicune is so good. I think it could be an s rank mon. I'll bring it up also. I'll also bring up ranking Feraligatr. However, I disagree about cress and rhyperior not being worthy of s rank. Cress is insanely bulky and there aren't very many viable mons (mainly bug/dark/ghost/swords dance/metal sound) that can beat it. Rhyperior has a super high attack stat + 150 bp attack + swords dance + solid rock. It's pretty def bulky and can just endure vs special atttacks. It beats a lot of the meta and is really good. Keep in mind that just because a mon has one set that doesn't mean it's bad. Lastly, I see your point about jirachi, but I'd like to say that special attacker jirachi is also viable, as well as cosmic power wish/rest. Now even with that said, I still agree with moving it down from a+. Thank you for taking the time to discuss the VR. :)
I'm fine with Cresselia and Rhyperior in S. I do think they're super good and super usable, but I also think being predictable is usually something you want to avoid. That's less of a thing against those two and more of a thing in Suicune's favor, though, so if we can move Cune up with them I'm a-ok with this!

Good to see that Tort/Raikou weren't forgotten about completely. I think they're pretty good (especially Raikou, which has odds to beat Cresselia because Pressure means it has 8 PP and even if you never crit you will far outlast the standard CM/Moonlight/Reflect set, and just straight up beats Cune/Bliss really), and Feraligatr is pretty good too. Hard to find something that's good vs Cress/Cune/Bliss while not getting blown up by Rhyp/DNite.

Special/Lure Jirachi seems _ok_ but I have never seen it and I honestly think even then Bronzong gives it some massive competition unless you really need Thunderbolt + Speed because Levitate is SO GOOD. You lose a few SAtk points and gain a little bit of bulk, but those are still pretty similar. As for a stally kinda set, I think Bronzong completely outclasses Jirachi for that with CM/ID/Flash Cannon/Rest. Boosts defense faster against stuff like Dragonite and, again, I don't think giving up Levitate is like ever worth it. As you said yourself, Rhyperior is pretty damn good, and Bronzong is one of its best checks with the right set!

Thanks for the reply! Seems like we can agree on most stuff at least.
 

Alakazam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_a1hPwXiWw
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
BW Whimsicott A --> A+/S
BW Jumpluff A --> A-

Whimsicott is nasty. Basically the best seedstaller in the game. Access to prankster taunt, before pranskter was nerfed. Trick isn't a real counterplay option, as Whimsicott can protect and sub common choice scarf users, a luxury Jumpluff does not share. Mega Evolutions and z moves aren't a thing, meaning that power creep is low enough to allow whimsicott to be able live at least one attack. Fairy type also isn't a thing, meaning that that Poison isn't as bad of a problem, allowing it to bop garchomp. The lack of Z moves in particular have nerfed flying types, and unless you have been rewarded with the coveted brave bird, the moves youll have to rely on are Hurricane and fly. ech. Also has access to Grasswhistle and can beat Pokemon it really shouldn’t like Choice Band Kyub,Choice Band Metagross, and Choiced Victini by fishing for confusion, fishing for misses, or getting a double protect and pp stalling 8 PP moves. In conclusion, its not beaten by Taunt, Substitute, Trick, opposing recover moves, most super effective moves, Dark-types, or sound based moves. Got both rank 1 and 2 with one whimsicott centric team

Meanwhile, we have Jumpluff. The only advantage it has is high speed sleep. Which, in this metagame not centered around bulky offense, instead around stall or hyper offense, really isn't an advantage to a mon like Whimsicott, that can already beat stall and live moves from hyper offense. Jumpluff also does not have access to either Taunt or Prankster, with a nerfed/unbuffed Infiltrator ability making it now beaten by not only taunt users but also sub users. Jumpluff also maintains the 4x weakness it currently has in the current meta, making it susceptible to both Scarf Kyub and Jirachi, which Whimsicott beats both. It also will be beaten by Trick Choice Scarf users, which Whimsicott doesn't need to care about. Looking down VR, i see no mon that Jumpluff would be better for than whimsicott, besides some very hard hitter like Choice Band Kyub and Choice Band Metagross.

Final thoughts:
Jumpluff is like the gen 7 Golem to Whimsicott's Donphan.
 
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After 1v1PL, I feel like I have a great grasp on the current BW 1v1 metagame and feel like I could drop my 2 cents in on how I feel about the current including some VR nominations.
In my opinion, Whimsicott is the best pokemon in BW 1v1 with the ability to leech seed just about any Pokemon barring Grass types and Magic Bounce Users. Some of Whimsicott's best "counters" can be stopped with a certain weakness berry like Occa and Yache. Honestly could see this thing going to S rank since its such a nuisance to many of my builds and many others as well. Other top pokemon like Kyurem Black and Porygon-Z are still great in the meta and have enough viable checks/counters to be not be broken or anything of the sort. Victini is criminally underrated with Banded V-create and Fusion Bolt being such a great combination. Also, Conkeldurr isnt ranked at all lol but it is the bulkiest Fighting type in the tier and with its monstrous 140 attack it can viably run sets like Fighting Gem or Choice Band with little to no precautions. I feel Pokemon like Reuniclus and Jellicent should be used much more to have such a high ranking on VR even if they are great Pokemon in the meta imo. I also feel like Landorus-Therian and Alakazam could drop a rank or two since these pokemon arent the greatest in the current meta with pokemon like Kyurem Black, Meloetta, and Genesect all running around right now. Suicune could also use a rise with sets like Sub+Protect or Sub+Calm Mind giving slower teams alot of trouble if they don't prepare for it. I can also say the same thing for Meloetta, the Pokemon is so bulky and can live about any hit (even Super Effective attacks from Powerful Pokemon like Specs Volcarona) and return a powerful attack like Specs Hyper Beam or Psychic. In my opinion, this entire VR needs to be renovated because its out of touch with the current meta which, i wouldnt mind doing.
 
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ORAS 1v1 VR Council:
DEG
dom
ggopw
ryyjyywyy
Whaleeeee
BW 1v1 VR Council
dom
SolarflareRo
Wanonymous1616
toadandhishaxx
Temp, probably:
ima

After 1v1PL, I feel like I have a great grasp on the current BW 1v1 metagame and feel like I could drop my 2 cents in on how I feel about the current including some VR nominations.
In my opinion, Whimsicott is the best pokemon in BW 1v1 with the ability to leech seed just about any Pokemon barring Grass types and Magic Bounce Users. Some of Whimsicott's best "counters" can be stopped with a certain weakness berry like Occa and Yache. Honestly could see this thing going to S rank since its such a nuisance to many of my builds and many others as well. Other top pokemon like Kyurem Black and Porygon-Z are still great in the meta and have enough viable checks/counters to be not be broken or anything of the sort. Victini is criminally underrated with Banded V-create and Fusion Bolt being such a great combination. Also, Conkeldurr isnt ranked at all lol but it is the bulkiest Fighting type in the tier and with its monstrous 140 attack it can viably run sets like Fighting Gem or Choice Band with little to no precautions. I feel Pokemon like Reuniclus and Jellicent should be used much more to have such a high ranking on VR even if they are great Pokemon in the meta imo. I also feel like Landorus-Therian and Alakazam could drop a rank or two since these pokemon arent the greatest in the current meta with pokemon like Kyurem Black, Meloetta, and Genesect all running around right now. Suicune could also use a rise with sets like Sub+Protect or Sub+Calm Mind giving slower teams alot of trouble if they don't prepare for it. I can also say the same thing for Meloetta, the Pokemon is so bulky and can live about any hit (even Super Effective attacks from Powerful Pokemon like Specs Volcarona) and return a powerful attack like Specs Hyper Beam or Psychic. In my opinion, this entire VR needs to be renovated because its out of touch with the current meta which, i wouldnt mind doing.
can you like, actually make a definitive claim or statement of any sort? you ramble a ton about possible changes of the vr but if you want the vr to change you should nominate pokemon to move. that's how VRs work. nominate a pokemon to a rank and explain why, specifically.
BW Whimsicott A --> A+/S
BW Jumpluff A --> A-

Whimsicott is nasty. Basically the best seedstaller in the game. Access to prankster taunt, before pranskter was nerfed. Trick isn't a real counterplay option, as Whimsicott can protect and sub common choice scarf users, a luxury Jumpluff does not share. Mega Evolutions and z moves aren't a thing, meaning that power creep is low enough to allow whimsicott to be able live at least one attack. Fairy type also isn't a thing, meaning that that Poison isn't as bad of a problem, allowing it to bop garchomp. The lack of Z moves in particular have nerfed flying types, and unless you have been rewarded with the coveted brave bird, the moves youll have to rely on are Hurricane and fly. ech. Also has access to Grasswhistle and can beat Pokemon it really shouldn’t like Choice Band Kyub,Choice Band Metagross, and Choiced Victini by fishing for confusion, fishing for misses, or getting a double protect and pp stalling 8 PP moves. In conclusion, its not beaten by Taunt, Substitute, Trick, opposing recover moves, most super effective moves, Dark-types, or sound based moves. Got both rank 1 and 2 with one whimsicott centric team

Meanwhile, we have Jumpluff. The only advantage it has is high speed sleep. Which, in this metagame not centered around bulky offense, instead around stall or hyper offense, really isn't an advantage to a mon like Whimsicott, that can already beat stall and live moves from hyper offense. Jumpluff also does not have access to either Taunt or Prankster, with a nerfed/unbuffed Infiltrator ability making it now beaten by not only taunt users but also sub users. Jumpluff also maintains the 4x weakness it currently has in the current meta, making it susceptible to both Scarf Kyub and Jirachi, which Whimsicott beats both. It also will be beaten by Trick Choice Scarf users, which Whimsicott doesn't need to care about. Looking down VR, i see no mon that Jumpluff would be better for than whimsicott, besides some very hard hitter like Choice Band Kyub and Choice Band Metagross.

Final thoughts:
Jumpluff is like the gen 7 Golem to Whimsicott's Donphan.
pluff is fine for now, whims is a+.


if you guys think whims is suspect worthy in bw, post about it here. best time is now with the ladder, can have a ladder suspect

also will get adv 1v1 vr on the way. oras 1v1 vr changes too.
 
Aight no one else did it yet so I'm gonna call for a suspect on Whimsicott in BW. \

Let's just look at the VR:
Out of every mon on there from S to B-, the only mons that can consistently beat whimsi through a yache or occa berry are:
Genesect
Gengar
Volcarona
Ferrothorn
Breloom
Celebi
Victini*
Durant
Landorus-I
Scizor
Shaymin
Venusaur
Virizion

That's out of 65 mons. In addition to this, with other berries whimsi can manage to beat the mons that use poison and bug type attacks on this list. That leaves the only real counter as grass types (for the most part). This leads to an overcentralization of the metagame. In addition to this, whimsi even has moves that hit grass types and sleep in the form of grasswhistle. This thing is busted and really should be suspected.
 

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Out of every mon on there from S to B-, the only mons that can consistently beat whimsi through a yache or occa berry are:
Genesect
Gengar
Volcarona
Ferrothorn
Breloom
Celebi
Victini*
Durant
Landorus-I
Scizor
Shaymin
Venusaur
Virizion
victini depends on whether or not you protect twice. Don't forget banded Rock Blast Rhyperior, Crustle, and Icicle Spear Mamo/Cloyster which can do break sub then do direct damage. But, also don't forget grasswhistle exists to essentially turn every non grass type mu into a 55/45
You can also sub repeatedly on durant until x scissor misses, meaning whimsi wins 66% of the time, anyway. My personal list of real counters would be:
Ferrothorn
Breloom
Celebi
Shaymin
Venusaur
Virizion

Yeah I also think Whimsicott is busted and deserves a suspect test. A lot of the time, the best whimsicott answer on a team is going to be your own whimsicott, just sped crept up a bit so it can taunt first. That is not healthy at all.
 
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