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Pokémon Legends: Z-A General Discussion

I had a hard time with Kyogre, but Rayquaza was actually really fun for me because at that point I decided there was never gonna be a better opportunity to let Mega Zygarde stretch its legs, and proceeded to blast off huge chunks of Ray’s HP bar with the giant fucking laser cannon :totodiLUL:

Yeah Zygarde was definitely the fun way to go.
My first special scan was a battle zone. The only up shot was it basically recoups half the cost of the scan and you can get some fun items like beast balls if there's a collector around.

I feel like the first scan, at least, should be a guaranteed mythic of legend even if it'd be random from within that pool.

I honestly assumed it would be since my first was a legend
 
Finished up all the sidequests. #200 is a nice capstone to everything, I think.
Do feel like it would hit a little different if the original plan for the game being last year and the DLC being this year would have happened, rather than a few weeks later, but some point down the line everyone will play it back to back anyway.
Yeah Zygarde was definitely the fun way to go.
You know who was fun to use against Zeraora? Zygarde. Did have to reset the fight due to a combination of mucking up Zygarde (the charge attacks still hurt like hell) and getting caught off guard by the zig zagging, but seeing the health bar shred down from Earth Powers, Scorching Sands and Nihil Light (though, not as much tbh...lack of type advantage and all) was so good.


Zeraora's fight was really fun and frantic. Good showing for the guy, and getting to see more of its animations really endears me. I like the random bit of lore Emma shares, feels like it was a reference to the movie. And it was cool to have Emma actually help out for real.

I honestly assumed it would be since my first was a legend
Ugh, jealous.

At least the second run, while not a legend, was the Frigibax area. I even had an item donut and got...1 Dubious Disc, 3 Prism Scales & 3 Black Augurites.
 
Finished up all the sidequests. #200 is a nice capstone to everything, I think.
Do feel like it would hit a little different if the original plan for the game being last year and the DLC being this year would have happened, rather than a few weeks later, but some point down the line everyone will play it back to back anyway.

You know who was fun to use against Zeraora? Zygarde. Did have to reset the fight due to a combination of mucking up Zygarde (the charge attacks still hurt like hell) and getting caught off guard by the zig zagging, but seeing the health bar shred down from Earth Powers, Scorching Sands and Nihil Light (though, not as much tbh...lack of type advantage and all) was so good.


Zeraora's fight was really fun and frantic. Good showing for the guy, and getting to see more of its animations really endears me. I like the random bit of lore Emma shares, feels like it was a reference to the movie. And it was cool to have Emma actually help out for real.

Ugh, jealous.

At least the second run, while not a legend, was the Frigibax area. I even had an item donut and got...1 Dubious Disc, 3 Prism Scales & 3 Black Augurites.

They should come fairly easy, I was using item donuts generally for 5* wild zones. I’d be clearing those as part of the next special scan for that reason alone.

Also um wtf I thought there was no mission 200? Turns out I haven’t done 136?

What bs. Apparently one of those people with a “Berries are mysterious” bubbles. If you didn’t already talk to them prior, the side mission won’t show up. Yuck.
 
They should come fairly easy, I was using item donuts generally for 5* wild zones. I’d be clearing those as part of the next special scan for that reason alone.
That was my plan too, the problem was getting the right item flavor. Made a bunch of sour stuff and just kept getting stuff like berries, candies or coins. Thankfully on Scan #4 (Rotom) I got a level 3 special item power and was rolling in everything. Wonderful to not worry about it anymore

Scan #3 was a Latias zone. So 1/7th down. It was weird that there were no missions for that one, so if you roll a legend you start from 0 on the next scan.

After I do my trades the only pokemon left are the special scans, another gimmighoul for the living dex and...sirfetch'd..somehow. I can probably just trade for one but part of me is curious to see just how long it will take to find a farfetch'd-g zone at this point.
 
Took me 2 hours of resets just to find a G-Fetch Zone, then another hour to get the Shalpha. It’s one of the few gripes I have with the DLC - finding specific mons can be so grindy. Wish you could do something like talk to Philippe and having him special scan a mon for X amount of points.
 
Took me 2 hours of resets just to find a G-Fetch Zone, then another hour to get the Shalpha. It’s one of the few gripes I have with the DLC - finding specific mons can be so grindy. Wish you could do something like talk to Philippe and having him special scan a mon for X amount of points.
Doing that right now. The grind is real. D:
 
You know, I feel like the hyperspace zones should have stuff based on the Lysandre Labs. It'd add more visual variety. I think that if you removed the teleporters and some of the debris, the different chunks of the lab would make decent Small or Medium zones like the sewers do.

Having some zones take place in Darkrai's domain also would have been neat. I liked that the Genesect quest took place in a chunk of it (or a modified version of it).
 
Getting into the latter half of the Hyperspace missions, I dislike the large amount of variance the new DLC brings into its gameplay. Probably the thing I have the biggest issue with is the randomized selection of Pokemon for the Hyperspace Wild Zones, which makes finding newly re-introduced Pokemon like Galarian Farfetch'd feel harder than it should be. I'm biased on this because I want to dabble in Season 4 ranked matches but had to start the DLC late, so I'm more pressured to find the new Pokemon that are defining this season's metagame before it ends next month. I also dislike how SV's sandwich powers are implemented via the donut system; I prefer SV's implementation over forcing players to save scum for increased shiny odds (for a specific type too) or more chances to get more Berries, just to repetitively game some kid's baking services.

I also really don't like the Hyperspace Battle Zones. Although making competitive items like Bottle Caps and Seeds of Mastery as well as Hyperspace Berries easier to get is much appreciated, my biggest problem is that, unlike the base game's nighttime system, the calorie timer still counts down even while you're in a battle with an opponent. That makes fighting any non-reward Trainer a waste of time after you achieve your tasks during your venture, and trying to find the golden Bonus Ball puts more annoying pressure onto you when you're running away from NPCs that not only are free to take potshots at your Pokemon but also freeze you in your tracks for a few valuable seconds.
 
I don’t know what it is about Urbain/Taunie that I find so remarkably annoying; it’s a very unusual response for me to have toward a character who isn’t designed to be that way, but nevertheless I do appreciate the last side mission of the DLC letting me get to tell them to their face how much cooler Lida is.

Getting into the latter half of the Hyperspace missions, I dislike the large amount of variance the new DLC brings into its gameplay. Probably the thing I have the biggest issue with is the randomized selection of Pokemon for the Hyperspace Wild Zones, which makes finding newly re-introduced Pokemon like Galarian Farfetch'd feel harder than it should be. I'm biased on this because I want to dabble in Season 4 ranked matches but had to start the DLC late, so I'm more pressured to find the new Pokemon that are defining this season's metagame before it ends next month.

On the one hand, my brain sees it and is like, “Okay, I suppose at its core it’s no different from wandering into a grass patch over and over for a specific Pokémon,” but then on the other hand, I remember that wandering into grass patches over and over sucked, and at least didn’t require you to sit through the day/night cutscene in between every reroll.

What’s great about overworld encounters is that they remove a lot of that pointless, tedious filler, but the way that Hyperspace Zones are generated just finds a new way to bring all of that back into overworld encounters. :psysad:

I also dislike how SV's sandwich powers are implemented via the donut system; I prefer SV's implementation over forcing players to save scum for increased shiny odds (for a specific type too) or more chances to get more Berries, just to repetitively game some kid's baking services.

This is something I’m also sorta of two minds about. On paper, I like the idea of having desirable benefits balanced out by some degree of obscurity and randomness in order to nullify the player’s ability to game the system. But the fact that you can abuse backup saves to sort of game the system anyway makes me think they might as well have just made the values fully controllable outright. There is a school of thought that if you give people access to what they want in a way that’s fun, then they won’t feel the need to save scum (because that in itself is really tedious and boring), and in theory, that should make things more engaging for everyone.

I also really don't like the Hyperspace Battle Zones. Although making competitive items like Bottle Caps and Seeds of Mastery as well as Hyperspace Berries easier to get is much appreciated, my biggest problem is that, unlike the base game's nighttime system, the calorie timer still counts down even while you're in a battle with an opponent. That makes fighting any non-reward Trainer a waste of time after you achieve your tasks during your venture, and trying to find the golden Bonus Ball puts more annoying pressure onto you when you're running away from NPCs that not only are free to take potshots at your Pokemon but also freeze you in your tracks for a few valuable seconds.

Personally, I’ve actually come to really enjoy the sense of urgency that comes with these situations.

That said, I think having battles not freeze the timer is a mixed bag. Once again, this is a thing where I like what they’re going for on paper, but in practice it runs up against some disappointing realities.

Ideally, you’d want the player to have to actually think about the most efficient way of dispatching opponents, so as to more smartly navigate the timer, similar to how the Z-A Royale rewards players for having a diverse team that can answer all kinds of type-based challenges from Bonus Cards. This is likely why hyperspace battle zones never have more diverse tasks than “defeat Trainers” or “KO by surprise,” because although the Z-A Royale is also on a timer, it’s not as stressful as the one for hyperspace battle zones, where the goal is simply to take out as many opponents as you can.

However, a problem here is that the opponents in hyperspace never use more than two Pokémon (or three Alphas if they’re a hologram Trainer), so the hard emphasis on efficiency means that battles almost never consist of more than you delivering two trivial OHKOs and then moving on, assuming you came in prepared for the type of the zone*.

I can see some of the logic in that design choice — having Trainers wandering around with teams of four, five, or six Pokémon would cause those battles to feel like even bigger time-wasters if you happen to get dragged into battle with them. Those battles, if they were to be included, would probably need to offer much bigger reward payouts in order to feel worth one’s time. (I also think it’s a little odd that batte zones still culminate in a Bonus Ball and not, like, a dedicated boss Trainer. Just spitballing, but perhaps that could have been a fun way to mirror the Z-A Royale, but having the boss Trainer be one of the Royale opponents with a significantly different team.)

What I think would greatly benefit all of this is having an array of tools that the player can use to change up their style and give themselves strategic benefits. Something that I feel is missing in this game compared to Arceus, is thinks like the Smoke Bomb**, Sticky Glob, berries that you can throw to distract Pokémon, and so on. Imagine if you could make like, a bag of Gimmighoul Coins to throw and distract Trainers in hyperspace, lol. Maybe also include some kind of consumable tool that can be used as a “panic button” to pause the timer for a short while. This kind of stuff would also widen the pool of rewards that hyperspace excursions could pull from.

* There are battle zones that have multiple types on the opponents’ teams, which are not quite as monotonously easy (though they still aren’t really difficult, per se), but generally I feel like, and here’s the reward problem again, there’s not a significantly increased benefit for these zones to match the increased challenge factor and need for a more diverse team with good coverage. If anything, I think it just makes you end up having to swap Pokémon more often.

** I know you can use the move Smokescreen to similar effect, but that takes up a move slot, is only available on certain Pokémon, and frankly never seems to work as well as the Smoke Bombs in Arceus did.
 
I don’t know what it is about Urbain/Taunie that I find so remarkably annoying; it’s a very unusual response for me to have toward a character who isn’t designed to be that way, but nevertheless I do appreciate the last side mission of the DLC letting me get to tell them to their face how much cooler Lida is.
I don't find her quite as annoying (though their behavior around Floette really bugged me) but I do find it funny how often the DLC either actively trolls her (Korrina's early snubbing, Zeraora mission) or lets you do it yourself.

Favorite moment of the game is when Korrina asks you which of you is the better trainer. If you say yourself, Taunie immediately just turns to face you without saying anything while you just keep staring ahead at Korrina for a full beat before Korrina goes "haha yeah!!" Just perfect comedic timing.
 
I don’t know what it is about Urbain/Taunie that I find so remarkably annoying; it’s a very unusual response for me to have toward a character who isn’t designed to be that way, but nevertheless I do appreciate the last side mission of the DLC letting me get to tell them to their face how much cooler Lida is.
i think it's just because they come off as extremely selfish and untrusting and kind of a control freak, and not at all self-aware about it. like, they borrow 100k from the mob rather than asking their friends, including the protagonist who probably has that much on them at the moment just by merit of royale grinding and casually picking up sparklies, and they don't even tell anyone until they get in trouble over it. who the fuck does that? how little do they trust their friends that they'd rather turn to a loan shark for money to finance an ad that brings exactly zero patrons to the hotel? az doesn't even want guests or advertisements, and they don't even consult him. and then the floette thing is even worse. they say "this battle is to determine who gets the floette", they lose the battle, and then they yoink the floette anyway and immediately proceed to fuck everything up and gravely endanger the entire city. they keep insisting they're the leader of team mz even though the player is the one doing basically all the work, is stronger than everyone else on the team combined, and is very obviously the face of the team. they waste both your royale wish and their own on something that would've happened anyway. at every possible junction they refuse to let anyone else have any input over what's going on and then make some horrible mistake that could've easily been avoided if they'd given someone else a say for once in their life. the combination of "insists on making every decision" and "incompetent enough to fuck up every decision" is extremely frustrating and also incredibly realistic
 
i think it's just because they come off as extremely selfish and untrusting and kind of a control freak, and not at all self-aware about it. like, they borrow 100k from the mob rather than asking their friends, including the protagonist who probably has that much on them at the moment just by merit of royale grinding and casually picking up sparklies, and they don't even tell anyone until they get in trouble over it. who the fuck does that how little do they trust their friends that they'd rather turn to a loan shark for money to finance an ad that brings exactly zero patrons to the hotel? az doesn't even want guests or advertisements, and they don't even consult him.
OK so like, everything else is whatever but it is insane to me to see this storyline as lack of trust.

Like they're dumb about it, but they also didn't want to get them into her own mess. And then as these storylines go, they get brought into it anyway because you have to learn you can't do everything on your own. Because it's a common type of story. It's a common event in real life!
I mean less the mob, but broadly speaking. I've been in those situations, even as an adult I find myself wanting to fix my own mistakes, digging my own hole, instead of just going "oh this sucks I need help" and resolving the situation faster.

immediately proceed to fuck everything up and gravely endanger the entire city.
And to this part specifically (I otherwise agree that them going "ok but let me do it anyway" is the worst way to have handled it), this isn't even their fault, it's just how the system was too far gone. If we would have gone up there the same thing would have happened (except Taunie/Urbaine wouldn't have been able to activate Zygarde's pebble transformation, I presume).
 
i think it's just because they come off as extremely selfish and untrusting and kind of a control freak, and not at all self-aware about it. like, they borrow 100k from the mob rather than asking their friends, including the protagonist who probably has that much on them at the moment just by merit of royale grinding and casually picking up sparklies, and they don't even tell anyone until they get in trouble over it. who the fuck does that? how little do they trust their friends that they'd rather turn to a loan shark for money to finance an ad that brings exactly zero patrons to the hotel? az doesn't even want guests or advertisements, and they don't even consult him. and then the floette thing is even worse. they say "this battle is to determine who gets the floette", they lose the battle, and then they yoink the floette anyway and immediately proceed to fuck everything up and gravely endanger the entire city. they keep insisting they're the leader of team mz even though the player is the one doing basically all the work, is stronger than everyone else on the team combined, and is very obviously the face of the team. they waste both your royale wish and their own on something that would've happened anyway. at every possible junction they refuse to let anyone else have any input over what's going on and then make some horrible mistake that could've easily been avoided if they'd given someone else a say for once in their life. the combination of "insists on making every decision" and "incompetent enough to fuck up every decision" is extremely frustrating and also incredibly realistic

See it’s funny, ‘cause my issues with them don’t really relate to any of this. “Selfish” is just about the last word I’d use to describe them, given how they constantly bang on about the importance of helping others, and take time out of their day to do exactly that. If anything, that’s what I’m put off by — not because I’m in opposition to helping people, of course, but because the way they sort of brag about how helpful they are and how they feel compelled to do it feels kind of sanctimonious to me.

Wrt the loan, I’d have to double-check, but I got the impression that they took it out before the story of the game even started. So they wouldn’t have met us yet, and they wouldn’t have been very high in the Z-A ranks yet, either. And the game does mention how they, Lida, and Naveen are all pretty strapped for cash. All Urbain/Taunie really did was:

1) Naively trust Philippe’s offer for financial assistance. But they’re a teenager, so it’s not improbable that they’d make a dumb decision; plus, Philippe says that they had just helped out a member of the Rust Syndicate, so Urbain/Taunie probably felt there was some level of rapport between them. And that’s the thing about predatory loans — they prey on peoples’ trust and vulnerability. And…

2) Make the classic mistake of trying to keep their problems a secret from their friends so as to not worry them. It’s not a matter of not trusting them per se, but rather a miscalculated attempt to not add your problems to their plates. This is something that people do all the time, and while it does speak to a lack of trust on some level, in that you feel the other person wouldn’t be willing to help with your problems, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t trust the person in a broader sense.

I don’t really care about them taking up the leader mantle; if anything I’d nominate Lida as a better fit for that since she runs the strategy meetings. God knows I’m not a leader. I’m perfectly happy just being the unbelievably cool muscle of the group.

Them insisting on being the one to team up with Floette to deal with Ange is clearly motivated by their pathological need to be a helper rearing its head again, but in fairness, I’m not sure they’re really the reason why Ange went rogue. The device was already at its limit by that point, and I feel like there’s every chance that it still would have gone rogue even if we’d gone up there with Floette instead.

Lastly, I don’t really blame them for wasting my wish, because that’s just the fundamental limitations of the plot railroading me into agreeing with them. There’s no reason why they couldn’t have wished for the Z-A Royale to continue while I wished for free housing and food for all, but the story decided at that point to not take my actual wishes into account and instead impose an opinion on me. That’s not Urbain/Taunie’s fault; that one’s on the writers.
 
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While we're on this subject I'll say again that, like, narratively* there is a really easy way to make the Floette choice work way better

Just have Floette make the choice after the battle is done.

Because of course Floette would choose Taunie/Urbain. They were found by AZ first and have bonded with the hotel the most. Floette has seen first hand how much they love Lumiose, how much they care about the hotel, the friends, AZ. Floette might like you, Naveen or Lida just as much by the end but if the game had Floette come over to them after you beat them I wouldn't have blinked twice. She's the one who has to mega evolve and slam full force head into the tower anyway. Can even make a joke about not asking the most important character for this whole ordeal.

btw could you imagine the situation where Taunie lost to the rando off screen A Rank combatant and we had to fight them and then lost? Floette just going to hitch her wagon to this nobody??


*Structurally obviously they'd get Floette. Floette & Zygarde are the 2 important ones and we've spent the entire game working on Zygarde's gambit. When it's climax time it was just a question of how Floette winds up in their hands.
 
urbain/taunie are annoying to me because to me they come off with an extreme amount of more or less toxic positivity and no one calls them on their bs the whole game. this hits extremely close to home and it makes me wince

that being said i kind of like that team mz is a bit dysfunctional. it makes the scenes where they pull through at a given thing hit a little differently and it's refreshing
 
While we're on this subject I'll say again that, like, narratively* there is a really easy way to make the Floette choice work way better

Just have Floette make the choice after the battle is done.

Because of course Floette would choose Taunie/Urbain. They were found by AZ first and have bonded with the hotel the most. Floette has seen first hand how much they love Lumiose, how much they care about the hotel, the friends, AZ. Floette might like you, Naveen or Lida just as much by the end but if the game had Floette come over to them after you beat them I wouldn't have blinked twice. She's the one who has to mega evolve and slam full force head into the tower anyway. Can even make a joke about not asking the most important character for this whole ordeal.

btw could you imagine the situation where Taunie lost to the rando off screen A Rank combatant and we had to fight them and then lost? Floette just going to hitch her wagon to this nobody??


*Structurally obviously they'd get Floette. Floette & Zygarde are the 2 important ones and we've spent the entire game working on Zygarde's gambit. When it's climax time it was just a question of how Floette winds up in their hands.

For the most part, I agree with all of this, because I definitely think it’d make an abundance of sense for Floette to choose them of her own volition. Mega Evolution is supposed to be all about bonds, so even though we might be the stronger Trainer and have stronger bonds with our own Pokémon, that doesn’t necessarily mean we have the stronger bond with Floette. Of course that would be Urbain/Taunie.

… but at the same time, I can’t help but wonder if we maybe sort of lose a bit of edge to Urbain/Taunie’s character by not having them make this request despite losing the battle. Like I said in my post above, “selfish” is not at all the word I’d use to describe them… except in this one particular moment, where they very desperately want to be the one to fulfill this role in order to satisfy their savior complex. It’s kind of an interesting dualism to me, they want to do a very selfless act for selfish reasons. Perhaps if the story took more of a scalpel to that dissonance and examined it more, the moment would feel more justified.
 
They could have had the MC/team recognize in a post-game conversation that Floette would probably have chosen Taunie anyway (and that maybe you should have asked for its opinion, but that'd be too much self-awareness from the devs).
 
I never got "selfishness" from Urbain/Taunie, but I did feel they had a bit of "insecurity".

During the whole Rust Syndicate arc it was odd that they were rather aloof with how they gotten the team and hotel mixed up into a debt trap. While the player (and to an extent Lida) were working to pay off the built-up interest, when they weren't dealing with Rogue Mega Pokemon they were out-and-about helping whoever they came across. Now knowing the full story, maybe that was meant to be the first clue that they were starting to get in over their head. They came to Lumiose City to find their grandmother to learn a bit more about their mother, they were given help and a place to stay by AZ and so felt indebted to him thus started Team MZ. Going back to trying to find their grandmother, they enlisted the help of Emma whose devotion in helping the people of Lumiose City further made them feel that they too should also be going around helping, on top of finding their grandmother... on top of helping the hotel... on top of dealing with Mega Rogue Pokemon... on top of getting to Rank A in the Battle Royale. They kept putting more and more responsibilities onto their shoulder that it was only a matter of time they would have a problem balancing them, and then along came the player.

The player, whose reason for coming to Lumiose City is never really established, and wasn't even a Pokemon Trainer until coming to Lumiose, suddenly and seemingly effortlessly proves to be a strong trainer and takes on the responsibilities of battling Mega Rogue Pokemon, getting to Rank A, and helping the people of Lumiose City; even within Team MZ the player becomes their "secret weapon" and just as likely candidate to become the Master Mega User alongside Urbain/Taunie.

While for the most part they tried to show this didn't bother them, if I recall when the whole Master Mega User thing is brought up they do need to keep including themselves as candidates as Lida and Naveen more start to think the player as the one who'll achieve it. But it all comes to a head when it's time for them to battle the player for who'll partner with Floette. And despite losing, they insist they still do it. Because, in their mind, what else are they there for? Finding their grandmother has taken a backseat as progress on it is slow, they've gotten the hotel they promised to help in trouble (twice if you want to count Jacinthe surrounding it in a Battle Zone cause they told her they didn't want to compete in her tournament), and despite being Team MZ's leader its the player who has taken on most of the heavy work. All she has left is "helping the people of Lumiose City", it seems to be the one thing that takes up most of her time and where she maybe has made any self progress.

Now, they did correctly reason that, if the Prism Tower control room fails to stop Ange, the player would be the best one to form and initiate a Plan B. The battle between them and the player wasn't a required thing to do, it was just something done because they were both Rank A meaning they were both Master Mega User; Floette knew what it had to do so as long as it was partnered with a capable trainer it trust it didn't mind who. Still, them insisting on being the one who went up to the control room with Floette felt more like them trying to find a role for themselves to fill (or maybe even seeing it as finishing at least one they started).
 
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Looking at the full list of hyperspace wild zones I'm starting to see why Farfetch'd G is such a sticking point.
Fighting 3* pulls from a set of 10 and Farfetch'd G is only in one of them. It's not the only Pokemon exclusively in one wild zone, but depending on how it decides to spawn Star rankings it's probably just in a terrible position. A lot of other (new) one-off Pokemon are either in 1 star, like Feebas, or pull from a smaller pool, like how there's only 1 Yamask-G but only 3 3* Ghost zones total.

I feel like Sirfetch'd, at least, should have been thrown into the Legendary zones. You have 4 Fighting types, I think you could have found room for the line.
 
I feel like Sirfetch'd, at least, should have been thrown into the Legendary zones. You have 4 Fighting types, I think you could have found room for the line.
Replace the Binacle/Barabaracle or Pancham/Pangoro in Terrakion's with them. They're also found in Keldeo's and are the only duplicate between the Musketeers' zones aside from Machoke/Machamp who are in all but Virizion's.
 
Now my memory is very hazy on the story so correct me if im wrong here but, is the rival ever.. shown helping others? like not just in text or implied but just helping people out on screen or hell even just other people mentioning how helpful they are?

The only time I can remember seeing much to that effect is during Corbeau's section of the game, when you fight alongside him against the random Lumiose Safety Group guy while the rival gets Jett away from there. Might be more I haven't seen but that's the only time it's shown during the story to my knowledge
 
Now my memory is very hazy on the story so correct me if im wrong here but, is the rival ever.. shown helping others? like not just in text or implied but just helping people out on screen or hell even just other people mentioning how helpful they are?
i don't remember any instance of the rival helping people outside of i guess team mz (ferrying a ceo to safety during a non-violent protest while your friend beats up the protesters at the behest of the mob does not count as helping people). come to think of it, i don't even remember an instance of anyone outside of team mz mentioning that the rival helped them in any capacity, or the rival providing any specific details about what kind of help they even do
 
i don't remember any instance of the rival helping people outside of i guess team mz (ferrying a ceo to safety during a non-violent protest while your friend beats up the protesters at the behest of the mob does not count as helping people). come to think of it, i don't even remember an instance of anyone outside of team mz mentioning that the rival helped them in any capacity, or the rival providing any specific details about what kind of help they even do
they're really just a very underbaked character the more I think about them. And like, that goes for a lot of them -- its pokemon -- but Urbain/Taunie are almost uniquely so given that they're the rival character and given a lot of screentime that most others barring like, Corbeau, lack. Their relation to Jett is not delved into at all outside of an optional postgame bit that most people will never see and the postgame kinda just assumes you have done lol, and their main bit is also the bit of two other characters and its not really elaborated on or done through anything but telling you.
 
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