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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

I’m not making a new observation in saying this, but with XY, they basically took their usual approach to the box mascots and decided to apply it all to the ultimate weapon instead. Even as someone who really likes the story of AZ and the weapon, I will say that I’ve always wondered why they chose to do it that way. Pokémon isn’t exactly the type of series that you’d ever expect to concentrate on the lore about a magical WMD when it could (and always had) conveyed that type of storytelling through an important Pokémon instead.

Like, I suppose I could see it being kind of tricky if they specifically wanted the plot about Team Flare trying to eradicate all other life, and having to make that work with the two-versions format when only one of the two Legendaries has the power to take life, but even if that were the case, the ultimate weapon is still a slightly awkward way to circumvent the issue — from what we can tell, it doesn’t matter which Legendary you use to power it because whether it’s used as a resurrection machine or a weapon is simply decided by who’s using it, but it feels like it should matter… the intiuitive sense would be that if you stick the Life Pokémon in it you get eternal life, while if you stick the Death Pokémon in it you get mass death. But no, it just needs a Pokémon with a lot of life energy, period.
I've felt for a while that if XY was made today they would've either A) Given Xerneas and Yveltal alternate forms for boss purposes where they are forcibly merged with the Ultimate Weapon or B) made the Ultimate Weapon itself a Pokemon. Legends Z-A's climax basically proves they would've done A
 
You'd think AZ getting the box legends to power his machine would have come up more than like one line of dialog in the post game (I will assume that surely there is at least one more line and it's jsut not as easily searchable, perhaps its in the flare base files)

The only thing that the files in the lab have to say about them is literally just a rephrased bit of Mable’s dialogue from XY :tymp:

“Kalos is said to have two Legendary Pokémon. Xerneas—which represents life and rebirth. And Yveltal—representing destruction and death. The power to grant life and the power to steal life. These are mysterious abilities that even science has not been able to decode. What would happen to the world if we were to use such power to activate the ultimate weapon?”

I suppose if you read very, very deep between the lines and cross this with Mable saying during the Project M side mission that Team Flare considered using Mewtwo to power the weapon, but decided not to since they couldn’t get it to do anything but stand around Mega Evolve, and the fact that Mega Evolution itself is derived from the power of Xerneas/Yveltal, that maybe Xerneas and Yveltal’s stores of life energy are somehow unique in a way that enables the machine to function in the way that we’re familiar with… but it’s also never been clear if AZ needed (both or only one of?) the Legendaries in order to facilitate the life energy transfer to Floette, or if he just used them as batteries for the giant laser blast. Ange doesn’t seem to require them at all since Lysandre deemed it useless without Eternal Floette despite having control of Xerneas and Yveltal, but I guess it’s possible that if they were indeed used to enable the resurrection process, then Floette may have derived some key trace of energy from them herself.

And in any case, “the device very specifically requires them in order to function because of their unique life/death powers” wouldn’t be much of a solution to the larger issue you identified. It’d just be saying that you can’t wilfully manipulate their energies without a very specific and convoluted kind of mechanical interface, like the Blue/Red Orbs or the Red Chain x50. I think to do anything significantly more satisfying with them would probably require some extremely substantial rewrites to the story. Rewrites to a degree of substance that I doubt even the planned Z games would have pursued.

On top of that lack of distinction, AZ didn't even get eternal life from the life giving version of the weapon, he got it from the killing version

Which is yet another thing I could easily see coming from a different sort of series or narrative style — “the thing I used to bring untold death and destruction cursed me with eternal life” — but is not something I’d have really ever put my chips on Pokémon doing. It’s very poetic and ironic, like a Greek tragedy almost. Personally, I love that Pokémon went for something like that, but it’s operating on a notion of narrative karma that’s a lot more complex than “Bad guy seizes power and gets more than he bargained for, and his plans are foiled.”

Even disregarding what Z-A brought to the table, I think a concept like the ultimate weapon is just so much more semiotically dense than an ancient superpowered creature. Groudon, Dialga, and Zekrom are all just natural facets of the world that Pokémon takes place in. They’re the fantasy of “What if we could own cats that shoot lightning?” taken to its most logical extreme — “What if we could own cats could shoot so much lightning that they could fry the whole world?”

But the ultimate weapon has a material context and analogy that we can map directly onto the real world. The horrors of human warfare produce horrifying weapons made by human hands, often by perverting the miracle of science toward the aim of cruelty and harm, and later generations will inevitably inherit the legacy of those weapons and thus must bear the burden of figuring out how to navigate such a great responsibility.

You could certainly make it so that Team Flare just want to capture Yveltal and force it to suck out the life force of everyone outside their group. After all, the outline of their plan is essentially no different from what Cyrus purported Team Galactic’s plan to be; they want to create a world just for themselves, just without all the multidimensional trappings. But that would ultimately just be another story about a man trying and failing to control a force of nature and being humbled by it. Whereas XY as it is, is about a man who has lost faith in the world choosing to perpetuate a terrible genocide that was carried out once before by using a weapon his ancestor created to achieve a Pyrrhic victory.

Again, I do enjoy this for what it is, but how the hell did Pokémon get here? Was Masuda just on some high pretention shit in 2013?

To your point about it feeling like you could excise Xerneas and Yveltal from the script altogether and nothing would change, it almost makes me wonder if they exist mostly for the sake of adhering to some tradition, and perhaps that’s why their lore is so shallow.

“We’re doing two versions, so we need two diametrically opposed mascots.” = “Well, life and death are a theme of the story, so maybe life and death Pokémon.”

“We always have the Legendary show up to be caught during the climax” = “Maybe in order to justify having Xerneas / Yveltal there, we say they’re needed to power the weapon.”

Not to connect too many dots, but I also recall Sugimori saying that he had difficulty coming up with a design concept for them.

I wonder if in hindsight they wished they’d thought of taking a Nebby-type swing one generation earlier. Just have the weapon be its own inanimate menace and have Shauna carry around a Zygarde Core like Bonnie in the anime. Don’t even have Xerneas/Yveltal exist (I wouldn’t actually want that; I love their designs, but for the sake of the hypothetical), just give Zygarde two forms or evolutions or whatever and have “life” and “death” be abstract, unpersonified forces that Zygarde keeps in balance.
 
I wonder if in hindsight they wished they’d thought of taking a Nebby-type swing one generation earlier. Just have the weapon be its own inanimate menace and have Shauna carry around a Zygarde Core like Bonnie in the anime. Don’t even have Xerneas/Yveltal exist (I wouldn’t actually want that; I love their designs, but for the sake of the hypothetical), just give Zygarde two forms or evolutions or whatever and have “life” and “death” be abstract, unpersonified forces that Zygarde keeps in balance.
Which reminds me, I didn't count in the anime for this discussion since it's all over the place in how it depicts the plots, much less the Pokemon within them

but

It is pretty funny that they just do not matter at all to the plot of XYZ and only show up in a post-series special that we miraculously got as the end of season episode in the dub. Like Rayquaza & Giratina & so on don't get to be that relevant either but it's a bit of a reversal this time





Also, not to put too much importance on Z Version like the fandom likes to do buuuuut we do know from design notes that the original idea was that Zygarde would have two ultimate forms, one to counter Xerneas (a wolf that hunts stags) and one to counter Yveltal (an anti-aircraft carrier. obviously.), which would necessitate Xerneas & Yveltal to do SOMETHING more relevant in order to get Zygarde going to counter them. Even just something as simple as Lysandre gets to use his weird unexplained beetles to harness them beyond just the weapon at the climax would probably help.
 
On top of that lack of distinction, AZ didn't even get eternal life from the life giving version of the weapon, he got it from the killing version
the way the ultimate weapon works, at least in my mind, is that it treats life force as a conserved quantity and moves it from one entity or group of entities to another. the life-giving and killing "versions" of the weapon are the exact same thing. when az brought back floette, the weapon extracted the life force from a bunch of pokemon and transferred it into floette. when he wiped out both sides of the war, the weapon extracted their life force in a similar way, but that life force had to go somewhere, so it went into az. when lysandre used it, zygarde showed up and poured all of its power into the life-extracting beam to prevent it from targeting anything else. that life force was than transferred to the nearest other living thing—lysandre—thus rendering him immortal in a similar way to az and his floette. now, all of this takes a tremendous amount of energy to catalyze, hence the need for xerneas/yveltal/pokemon bioenergy/lumiose's entire power grid. that energy also needs to end up somewhere, and is radiated out in the form of mega power, which infuses certain kinds of stones upon each firing of the ultimate weapon and turns them into mega stones and key stones. i think this probably conflicts with some tidbit of lore or other, but it works way better than whatever bullshit they made up so i'm going with it
 
Honestly the complaints about the modern games have gotten really... And I mean REALLY nitpicky in recent times. I mean shit like "I can't enter buildings" or even the PNG Windows from Z-A.

I've heard someone compare criticizing that to jumping into a pool of fire and then complaing about being on fire, but I think a better comparison would be eating a Big Mac from McDonalds, and then having a Karen-level meltdown over the lettuce not being good enough.

Like, do the graphics and the unenterable buildings effect the experience? Yes, but it's such a small part of the game to where it really shouldn't matter as much as people are saying. I can understand wanting Lumiose City to have more depth to it, but I feel like that would take away resources from parts of the game that would benefit from it.

I'm also gonna note that I first found the "I can't enter buildings" complaint from a video essay glazing Black and White so uhh...
 
Honestly the complaints about the modern games have gotten really... And I mean REALLY nitpicky in recent times. I mean shit like "I can't enter buildings" or even the PNG Windows from Z-A.

I've heard someone compare criticizing that to jumping into a pool of fire and then complaing about being on fire, but I think a better comparison would be eating a Big Mac from McDonalds, and then having a Karen-level meltdown over the lettuce not being good enough.

Like, do the graphics and the unenterable buildings effect the experience? Yes, but it's such a small part of the game to where it really shouldn't matter as much as people are saying. I can understand wanting Lumiose City to have more depth to it, but I feel like that would take away resources from parts of the game that would benefit from it.

I'm also gonna note that I first found the "I can't enter buildings" complaint from a video essay glazing Black and White so uhh...
I saw a post noting that the ZA protagonist does not show a reflection in a mirror. This suggests that the reason the player is unable to enter most buildings is that the player character is a vampire.
 
Honestly the complaints about the modern games have gotten really... And I mean REALLY nitpicky in recent times. I mean shit like "I can't enter buildings"

It’s kind of funny, because it’s almost a neat little Pavlovian study of sorts.

Pokémon home interiors have never exactly been all that remarkable — aside from obviously important buildings and the very occasional random outlier, they’re all extremely basic, one-room pockets of reality, and usually resort to a lot of copy-and-pasting.

When looking for a picture of the interior of a house in SwSh to illustrate my point, I came across a reddit post highlighting how all of the houses in Hulbury are the exact same:

IMG_2660.jpeg


And rather predictably, much of the comments section is people ragging on GF for being lazy or the same old regurgitated “smol indy company” facetiousness.

But none of the average houses in the previous games actually put this to any particular kind of shame. “Oh but the furniture is moved around a little more.” “Oh but there was at least a little more variance.” Yeah, exactly — a little. The bar was already near the floor. This isn’t some sudden, grievous cratering of quality. It’s ever so slightly under the very low par that’s been set for the course.

Fast-forward to Scarlet & Violet — which, look, they got plenty of genuine issues, but I ain’t here to relitigate those right now — with its decision to excise the interiors of most buildings. And this comes as a shock to the system of people who, I guess, considered this to be an example of lush detailing and atmosphere:

IMG_2661.png


And it’s like, I sort of get it — you train people on being able to enter buildings for 30 years, they’re gonna get accustomed to it. Take that away all of a sudden, and it feels noteworthy.

But it doesn’t even necessarily have to have been a “laziness” thing (an argument which I have very close to absolutely no time for when it comes to game development). It’s not actually all that uncommon for games to have their storefronts be literal fronts with menus. One could reason that if the interiors of buildings were already very basic and repetitive, then getting rid of them for a more efficient menu pop-up is just a pragmatic trimming of the fat. Not everyone’s going to like it, because again, 30 years of conditioning, but you ultimately lose very little in the exchange other than a filler interior and a loading screen. Personally, I can’t say I feel too strongly about it one way or the other.

This also reminds me of some comments I saw early on in Z-A’s prerelease period, when they showed a player using a Holovator to go up a building. Some people took that as yet another opportunity to hammer GF for “laziness,” because they were apparently “too lazy to make a climbing animation.” Spoken as if watching your player climbing up a ladder is just the most riveting thing to do in a game… and then it turns out that the game does have regular fucking ladders for all the ladder-climbing animation lovers that I guess are out there, and that the Holovators simply exist alongside them as quicker alternatives / progression gates / a bit of worldbuilding to show how Quasartico is renovating the city.
 
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I do think it is genuinely a bummer that there's all these buildings you just never get to enter. Even if they're relatively unitneresting, it does a lot to make the world feel nice. And personally I did like going into the homes and buildings and chatting with NPCs there. I also think that it's relatively fine to have an expectation that certain things like interiors would perhaps over time become more elaborate; people are more forgiving of copy/paste interors in 2D games but it does stick out in SWSH a little more since there's More" to it. It seems like a valid thing to complain about even though I do agree that sometimes complaints start veering into "bitch eating crackers" territory (and not just Pokemon...feels like people just search for stuff to get mad at with all kinds of games lately).

Also in the case of Z-A in particular it just...feels really weird that there's these notable building landmarks that feel like you SHOULD be able to go into them and you just don't. Like the bank, or city hall, or the academy.
e: Somewhat Ironically I feel like it sticks out more because of the very pragmatic "you only enter this because we made a game where you have to". The Richisme lobby, the museum, the empty apartment. But I mean you can easily envision having the City Hall incident taking place in the lobby there, or having some sidequests in the bank or the academy, etc.
 
I do think it is genuinely a bummer that there's all these buildings you just never get to enter. Even if they're relatively unitneresting, it does a lot to make the world feel nice. And personally I did like going into the homes and buildings and chatting with NPCs there. I also think that it's relatively fine to have an expectation that certain things like interiors would perhaps over time become more elaborate; people are more forgiving of copy/paste interors in 2D games but it does stick out in SWSH a little more since there's More" to it. It seems like a valid thing to complain about even though I do agree that sometimes complaints start veering into "bitch eating crackers" territory (and not just Pokemon...feels like people just search for stuff to get mad at with all kinds of games lately).

Also in the case of Z-A in particular it just...feels really weird that there's these notable building landmarks that feel like you SHOULD be able to go into them and you just don't. Like the bank, or city hall, or the academy.
e: Somewhat Ironically I feel like it sticks out more because of the very pragmatic "you only enter this because we made a game where you have to". The Richisme lobby, the museum, the empty apartment. But I mean you can easily envision having the City Hall incident taking place in the lobby there, or having some sidequests in the bank or the academy, etc.

Personally I’m the type of player who thoroughly exhausts every single building and talks to every single NPC too, so I’m not fully excluding myself from the experience either. It is something I feel the absence of, and would prefer to still have if the choice were up to me. There definitely was a small twinge of disappointment in me when I couldn’t go into Z-A’s bank building or city hall.

It’s just that I also don’t find it to be such a big deal in the grand scheme of things that I feel an urge lambast Game Freak for their “laziness” on an aspect of the game that was never exactly the height of artistic accomplishment to begin with, and I’m generally, unless it concerns something that is morally offensive, inclined to assume good faith when it comes to the choices that game developers make. Obviously time constraints can be (and with Pokémon, almost certainly are) a major source of pressure, but I also think there can be benign, reasonable motives for these kinds of things. In another thread just now, I mentioned how absurd the implementation of B2W2’s difficulty modes was, and I do think everything about that was ludicrous, but I don’t assume it was borne of incompentence. I know what their reasoning for it was; I just think that their reasoning missed the mark.

Ultimately I just think people get too overzealous about this stuff sometimes. Like you said, the “bitch eating crackers” mentality comes out.
 
I do think it is genuinely a bummer that there's all these buildings you just never get to enter. Even if they're relatively unitneresting, it does a lot to make the world feel nice. And personally I did like going into the homes and buildings and chatting with NPCs there. I also think that it's relatively fine to have an expectation that certain things like interiors would perhaps over time become more elaborate; people are more forgiving of copy/paste interors in 2D games but it does stick out in SWSH a little more since there's More" to it. It seems like a valid thing to complain about even though I do agree that sometimes complaints start veering into "bitch eating crackers" territory (and not just Pokemon...feels like people just search for stuff to get mad at with all kinds of games lately).

Also in the case of Z-A in particular it just...feels really weird that there's these notable building landmarks that feel like you SHOULD be able to go into them and you just don't. Like the bank, or city hall, or the academy.
e: Somewhat Ironically I feel like it sticks out more because of the very pragmatic "you only enter this because we made a game where you have to". The Richisme lobby, the museum, the empty apartment. But I mean you can easily envision having the City Hall incident taking place in the lobby there, or having some sidequests in the bank or the academy, etc.
it's especially a shame because of the buildings in xy's lumiose that are inaccessible now. i really wanted to see whether or not the fighting dojo guys were successful
 
it's especially a shame because of the buildings in xy's lumiose that are inaccessible now. i really wanted to see whether or not the fighting dojo guys were successful

You don't need to enter the building to find that out, it's pretty much a running joke that he (and pretty much every other Black Belt in the games) are perpetual butt monkeys who never get to enjoy success
 
A lot Pokemon originally in Kalos aren't in Z-A. List below if you need it.

:Zigzagoon: :Linoone: Zigzagoon line.
:Bidoof: :Bibarel: Bidoof line.
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce.
:Azurill: :Marill: :Azumarill: Azurill line.
:Burmy: :Wormadam: :Mothim: Burmy line.
:Surskit: :Masquerain: Surskit line.
:Corphish: :Crawdaunt: Corphish line.
:Goldeen: :Seaking: Goldeen line.
:Psyduck: :Golduck: (GASP) Psyduck line.
:Ledyba: :Ledian: Ledyba line.
:Combee: :Vespiquen: Combee line.
:Skitty: :Delcatty: Skitty line.
:Doduo: :Dodrio: Doduo line.
:Plusle: Plusle
:Minun: Minun
:Oddish: :Gloom: :Vileplume: :Bellossom: Oddish line.
:Sentret: :Furret: Sentret line.
:Nincada: :Ninjask: :Shedinja: Nincada line.
:Smeargle: Smeargle.
:Ducklett: :Swanna: Ducklett line.
:Volbeat: Volbeat.
:Illumise: Illumise.
:Hoppip: :Skiploom: :Jumpluff: Hoppip line.
:Munchlax: :Snorlax: Munchlax line.
:Whismur: :Loudred: :Exploud: Whismur line.
:Axew: :Fraxure: :Haxorus: Axew line.
:Drifloon: :Drifblim: Drifloon line.
:Mienfoo: :Mienshao: Mienfoo line.
:Lunatone: Lunatone
:Solrock: Solrock.
:Wingull: :Pelipper: Wingull line.
:Dwebble: :Crustle: Dwebble line.
:Tentacool: :Tentacruel: Tentacool line.
:Wailmer: :Wailord: Wailmer line.
:Luvdisc: Luvdisc.
:Shellder: :Cloyster: Shellder line.
:Horsea: :Seadra: :Kingdra: Horsea line.
:Relicanth: Relicanth.
:Rhyhorn: :Rhydon: :Rhyperior: Rhyhorn line.
:Woobat: :Swoobat: Woobat line.
:Ferroseed: :Ferrothorn: Ferroseed line.
:Snubbull: :Granbull: Snubbull line.
:Yanma: :Yanmega: Yanma line.
:Sigilyph: Sigilyph.
:Nosepass: :Probopass: Nosepass line.
:Makuhita: :Hariyama: Makuhita line.
:Stunky: :Skuntank: Stunky line.
:Nidoran-F: :Nidorina: :Nidoqueen: Nidoran-F line.
:Nidoran-M: :Nidorino: :Nidoking: Nidoran-M line.
:Solosis: :Duosion: :Reuniclus: Solosis line.
:Wynaut: :Wobbuffet: Wynaut line.
:Roggenrola: :Boldore: :Gigalith: Roggenrola line.
:Tauros: Tauros.
:Miltank: Miltank.
:Pachirisu: Pachirisu.
:Chatot: Chatot.
:Mantyke: :Mantine: Mantyke line.
:Clamperl: :Huntail: :Gorebyss: Clamperl line.
:Remoraid: :Octillery: Remoraid line.
:Corsola: Corsola
:Chinchou: :Lanturn: Chinchou line.
:Alomomola: Alomomola.
:Lapras: Lapras.
:Articuno: Articuno.
:Zapdos: Zapdos.
:Moltres: Moltres.
:Diglett: :Dugtrio: Diglett line.
:Trapinch: :Vibrava: :Flygon: Trapinch line.
:Geodude: :Graveler: :Golem: Geodude line.
:Slugma: :Magcargo: Slugma line.
:Shuckle: Shuckle.
:Skorupi: :Drapion: Skorupi line.
:Wooper: :Quagsire: Wooper line.
:Karrablast: :Escavalier: Karrablast line.
:Shelmet: :Accelgor: Shelmet line.
:Carnivine: Carnivine.
:Poliwag: :Poliwhirl: :Poliwrath: :Politoed: Poliwag line.
:Barboach: :Whiscash: Sadly, Barboach line.
:Poochyena: :Mightyena: Poochyena line.
:Pawniard: :Bisharp: Pawniard line.
:Murkrow: :Honchkrow: Murkrow line.
:Lotad: :Lombre: :Ludicolo: Lotad line.
:Buizel: :Floatzel: Buizel line.
:Basculin: Basculin.
:Magnemite: :Magneton: :Magnezone: Magnemite line.
:Voltorb: :Electrode: Voltorb line.
:Swinub: :Piloswine: :Mamoswine: Swinub line.
:Cubchoo: :Beartic: Cubchoo line.
:Smoochum: :Jynx: Smoochum line.
:Sneasel: :Weavile: Sneasel line.
:Timburr: :Gurdurr: :Conkeldurr: Timburr line.
:Torkoal: Torkoal.
:Sandshrew: :Sandslash: Sandshrew line.
:Heatmor: Heatmor.
:Durant: Durant.
:Spearow: :Fearow: Spearow line.
:Gligar: :Gliscor: Gligar line.
:Hoothoot: :Noctowl: Hoothoot line.
:Zorua: :Zoroark: Zorua line.
:Gothita: :Gothorita: :Gothitelle: Gothita line.
:Bonsly: :Sudowoodo: Bonsly line.
:Spinda: Spinda.
:Teddiursa: :Ursaring: Teddiursa line.
:Lickitung: :Lickilicky: Lickitung line.
:Ditto: Ditto.
:Druddigon: Druddigon.
:Deino: :Zweilous: :Hydreigon: Deino line.
This is just weird. Like, one reason could be the fact the ultimate weapon fired 5 years ago, but HOW DID BUNNELBY SURVIVE? (Overabundance, maybe, which makes sense but like, PINSIR? HOW DID PINSIR SURVIVE?)
It's also sad. Like, they decided to exclude my boy Deino, but not stuff like Delibird? (Heck, they could've added it in the DLC! Yet CRYOGONAL got added and Deino didn't!)
 
A lot Pokemon originally in Kalos aren't in Z-A. List below if you need it.

:Zigzagoon: :Linoone: Zigzagoon line.
:Bidoof: :Bibarel: Bidoof line.
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce.
:Azurill: :Marill: :Azumarill: Azurill line.
:Burmy: :Wormadam: :Mothim: Burmy line.
:Surskit: :Masquerain: Surskit line.
:Corphish: :Crawdaunt: Corphish line.
:Goldeen: :Seaking: Goldeen line.
:Psyduck: :Golduck: (GASP) Psyduck line.
:Ledyba: :Ledian: Ledyba line.
:Combee: :Vespiquen: Combee line.
:Skitty: :Delcatty: Skitty line.
:Doduo: :Dodrio: Doduo line.
:Plusle: Plusle
:Minun: Minun
:Oddish: :Gloom: :Vileplume: :Bellossom: Oddish line.
:Sentret: :Furret: Sentret line.
:Nincada: :Ninjask: :Shedinja: Nincada line.
:Smeargle: Smeargle.
:Ducklett: :Swanna: Ducklett line.
:Volbeat: Volbeat.
:Illumise: Illumise.
:Hoppip: :Skiploom: :Jumpluff: Hoppip line.
:Munchlax: :Snorlax: Munchlax line.
:Whismur: :Loudred: :Exploud: Whismur line.
:Axew: :Fraxure: :Haxorus: Axew line.
:Drifloon: :Drifblim: Drifloon line.
:Mienfoo: :Mienshao: Mienfoo line.
:Lunatone: Lunatone
:Solrock: Solrock.
:Wingull: :Pelipper: Wingull line.
:Dwebble: :Crustle: Dwebble line.
:Tentacool: :Tentacruel: Tentacool line.
:Wailmer: :Wailord: Wailmer line.
:Luvdisc: Luvdisc.
:Shellder: :Cloyster: Shellder line.
:Horsea: :Seadra: :Kingdra: Horsea line.
:Relicanth: Relicanth.
:Rhyhorn: :Rhydon: :Rhyperior: Rhyhorn line.
:Woobat: :Swoobat: Woobat line.
:Ferroseed: :Ferrothorn: Ferroseed line.
:Snubbull: :Granbull: Snubbull line.
:Yanma: :Yanmega: Yanma line.
:Sigilyph: Sigilyph.
:Nosepass: :Probopass: Nosepass line.
:Makuhita: :Hariyama: Makuhita line.
:Stunky: :Skuntank: Stunky line.
:Nidoran-F: :Nidorina: :Nidoqueen: Nidoran-F line.
:Nidoran-M: :Nidorino: :Nidoking: Nidoran-M line.
:Solosis: :Duosion: :Reuniclus: Solosis line.
:Wynaut: :Wobbuffet: Wynaut line.
:Roggenrola: :Boldore: :Gigalith: Roggenrola line.
:Tauros: Tauros.
:Miltank: Miltank.
:Pachirisu: Pachirisu.
:Chatot: Chatot.
:Mantyke: :Mantine: Mantyke line.
:Clamperl: :Huntail: :Gorebyss: Clamperl line.
:Remoraid: :Octillery: Remoraid line.
:Corsola: Corsola
:Chinchou: :Lanturn: Chinchou line.
:Alomomola: Alomomola.
:Lapras: Lapras.
:Articuno: Articuno.
:Zapdos: Zapdos.
:Moltres: Moltres.
:Diglett: :Dugtrio: Diglett line.
:Trapinch: :Vibrava: :Flygon: Trapinch line.
:Geodude: :Graveler: :Golem: Geodude line.
:Slugma: :Magcargo: Slugma line.
:Shuckle: Shuckle.
:Skorupi: :Drapion: Skorupi line.
:Wooper: :Quagsire: Wooper line.
:Karrablast: :Escavalier: Karrablast line.
:Shelmet: :Accelgor: Shelmet line.
:Carnivine: Carnivine.
:Poliwag: :Poliwhirl: :Poliwrath: :Politoed: Poliwag line.
:Barboach: :Whiscash: Sadly, Barboach line.
:Poochyena: :Mightyena: Poochyena line.
:Pawniard: :Bisharp: Pawniard line.
:Murkrow: :Honchkrow: Murkrow line.
:Lotad: :Lombre: :Ludicolo: Lotad line.
:Buizel: :Floatzel: Buizel line.
:Basculin: Basculin.
:Magnemite: :Magneton: :Magnezone: Magnemite line.
:Voltorb: :Electrode: Voltorb line.
:Swinub: :Piloswine: :Mamoswine: Swinub line.
:Cubchoo: :Beartic: Cubchoo line.
:Smoochum: :Jynx: Smoochum line.
:Sneasel: :Weavile: Sneasel line.
:Timburr: :Gurdurr: :Conkeldurr: Timburr line.
:Torkoal: Torkoal.
:Sandshrew: :Sandslash: Sandshrew line.
:Heatmor: Heatmor.
:Durant: Durant.
:Spearow: :Fearow: Spearow line.
:Gligar: :Gliscor: Gligar line.
:Hoothoot: :Noctowl: Hoothoot line.
:Zorua: :Zoroark: Zorua line.
:Gothita: :Gothorita: :Gothitelle: Gothita line.
:Bonsly: :Sudowoodo: Bonsly line.
:Spinda: Spinda.
:Teddiursa: :Ursaring: Teddiursa line.
:Lickitung: :Lickilicky: Lickitung line.
:Ditto: Ditto.
:Druddigon: Druddigon.
:Deino: :Zweilous: :Hydreigon: Deino line.
This is just weird. Like, one reason could be the fact the ultimate weapon fired 5 years ago, but HOW DID BUNNELBY SURVIVE? (Overabundance, maybe, which makes sense but like, PINSIR? HOW DID PINSIR SURVIVE?)
It's also sad. Like, they decided to exclude my boy Deino, but not stuff like Delibird? (Heck, they could've added it in the DLC! Yet CRYOGONAL got added and Deino didn't!)

Do we know those Pokemon aren't in the wider Kalos region outside of Lumiose though?
 
A lot Pokemon originally in Kalos aren't in Z-A. List below if you need it.

:Zigzagoon: :Linoone: Zigzagoon line.
:Bidoof: :Bibarel: Bidoof line.
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce.
:Azurill: :Marill: :Azumarill: Azurill line.
:Burmy: :Wormadam: :Mothim: Burmy line.
:Surskit: :Masquerain: Surskit line.
:Corphish: :Crawdaunt: Corphish line.
:Goldeen: :Seaking: Goldeen line.
:Psyduck: :Golduck: (GASP) Psyduck line.
:Ledyba: :Ledian: Ledyba line.
:Combee: :Vespiquen: Combee line.
:Skitty: :Delcatty: Skitty line.
:Doduo: :Dodrio: Doduo line.
:Plusle: Plusle
:Minun: Minun
:Oddish: :Gloom: :Vileplume: :Bellossom: Oddish line.
:Sentret: :Furret: Sentret line.
:Nincada: :Ninjask: :Shedinja: Nincada line.
:Smeargle: Smeargle.
:Ducklett: :Swanna: Ducklett line.
:Volbeat: Volbeat.
:Illumise: Illumise.
:Hoppip: :Skiploom: :Jumpluff: Hoppip line.
:Munchlax: :Snorlax: Munchlax line.
:Whismur: :Loudred: :Exploud: Whismur line.
:Axew: :Fraxure: :Haxorus: Axew line.
:Drifloon: :Drifblim: Drifloon line.
:Mienfoo: :Mienshao: Mienfoo line.
:Lunatone: Lunatone
:Solrock: Solrock.
:Wingull: :Pelipper: Wingull line.
:Dwebble: :Crustle: Dwebble line.
:Tentacool: :Tentacruel: Tentacool line.
:Wailmer: :Wailord: Wailmer line.
:Luvdisc: Luvdisc.
:Shellder: :Cloyster: Shellder line.
:Horsea: :Seadra: :Kingdra: Horsea line.
:Relicanth: Relicanth.
:Rhyhorn: :Rhydon: :Rhyperior: Rhyhorn line.
:Woobat: :Swoobat: Woobat line.
:Ferroseed: :Ferrothorn: Ferroseed line.
:Snubbull: :Granbull: Snubbull line.
:Yanma: :Yanmega: Yanma line.
:Sigilyph: Sigilyph.
:Nosepass: :Probopass: Nosepass line.
:Makuhita: :Hariyama: Makuhita line.
:Stunky: :Skuntank: Stunky line.
:Nidoran-F: :Nidorina: :Nidoqueen: Nidoran-F line.
:Nidoran-M: :Nidorino: :Nidoking: Nidoran-M line.
:Solosis: :Duosion: :Reuniclus: Solosis line.
:Wynaut: :Wobbuffet: Wynaut line.
:Roggenrola: :Boldore: :Gigalith: Roggenrola line.
:Tauros: Tauros.
:Miltank: Miltank.
:Pachirisu: Pachirisu.
:Chatot: Chatot.
:Mantyke: :Mantine: Mantyke line.
:Clamperl: :Huntail: :Gorebyss: Clamperl line.
:Remoraid: :Octillery: Remoraid line.
:Corsola: Corsola
:Chinchou: :Lanturn: Chinchou line.
:Alomomola: Alomomola.
:Lapras: Lapras.
:Articuno: Articuno.
:Zapdos: Zapdos.
:Moltres: Moltres.
:Diglett: :Dugtrio: Diglett line.
:Trapinch: :Vibrava: :Flygon: Trapinch line.
:Geodude: :Graveler: :Golem: Geodude line.
:Slugma: :Magcargo: Slugma line.
:Shuckle: Shuckle.
:Skorupi: :Drapion: Skorupi line.
:Wooper: :Quagsire: Wooper line.
:Karrablast: :Escavalier: Karrablast line.
:Shelmet: :Accelgor: Shelmet line.
:Carnivine: Carnivine.
:Poliwag: :Poliwhirl: :Poliwrath: :Politoed: Poliwag line.
:Barboach: :Whiscash: Sadly, Barboach line.
:Poochyena: :Mightyena: Poochyena line.
:Pawniard: :Bisharp: Pawniard line.
:Murkrow: :Honchkrow: Murkrow line.
:Lotad: :Lombre: :Ludicolo: Lotad line.
:Buizel: :Floatzel: Buizel line.
:Basculin: Basculin.
:Magnemite: :Magneton: :Magnezone: Magnemite line.
:Voltorb: :Electrode: Voltorb line.
:Swinub: :Piloswine: :Mamoswine: Swinub line.
:Cubchoo: :Beartic: Cubchoo line.
:Smoochum: :Jynx: Smoochum line.
:Sneasel: :Weavile: Sneasel line.
:Timburr: :Gurdurr: :Conkeldurr: Timburr line.
:Torkoal: Torkoal.
:Sandshrew: :Sandslash: Sandshrew line.
:Heatmor: Heatmor.
:Durant: Durant.
:Spearow: :Fearow: Spearow line.
:Gligar: :Gliscor: Gligar line.
:Hoothoot: :Noctowl: Hoothoot line.
:Zorua: :Zoroark: Zorua line.
:Gothita: :Gothorita: :Gothitelle: Gothita line.
:Bonsly: :Sudowoodo: Bonsly line.
:Spinda: Spinda.
:Teddiursa: :Ursaring: Teddiursa line.
:Lickitung: :Lickilicky: Lickitung line.
:Ditto: Ditto.
:Druddigon: Druddigon.
:Deino: :Zweilous: :Hydreigon: Deino line.
This is just weird. Like, one reason could be the fact the ultimate weapon fired 5 years ago, but HOW DID BUNNELBY SURVIVE? (Overabundance, maybe, which makes sense but like, PINSIR? HOW DID PINSIR SURVIVE?)
It's also sad. Like, they decided to exclude my boy Deino, but not stuff like Delibird? (Heck, they could've added it in the DLC! Yet CRYOGONAL got added and Deino didn't!)

Oh wow that's really weird. I used to like cryogonal just a bit but...it's a fast frail regice. Regice has never really been good enough, sad to say, so not much point to put that in. It also makes me wonder why they mysteriously made ogonal one of the early pogo max mons, and put it there, but it has like no special use.
 
A lot Pokemon originally in Kalos aren't in Z-A. List below if you need it.

:Zigzagoon: :Linoone: Zigzagoon line.
:Bidoof: :Bibarel: Bidoof line.
:Dunsparce: Dunsparce.
:Azurill: :Marill: :Azumarill: Azurill line.
:Burmy: :Wormadam: :Mothim: Burmy line.
:Surskit: :Masquerain: Surskit line.
:Corphish: :Crawdaunt: Corphish line.
:Goldeen: :Seaking: Goldeen line.
:Psyduck: :Golduck: (GASP) Psyduck line.
:Ledyba: :Ledian: Ledyba line.
:Combee: :Vespiquen: Combee line.
:Skitty: :Delcatty: Skitty line.
:Doduo: :Dodrio: Doduo line.
:Plusle: Plusle
:Minun: Minun
:Oddish: :Gloom: :Vileplume: :Bellossom: Oddish line.
:Sentret: :Furret: Sentret line.
:Nincada: :Ninjask: :Shedinja: Nincada line.
:Smeargle: Smeargle.
:Ducklett: :Swanna: Ducklett line.
:Volbeat: Volbeat.
:Illumise: Illumise.
:Hoppip: :Skiploom: :Jumpluff: Hoppip line.
:Munchlax: :Snorlax: Munchlax line.
:Whismur: :Loudred: :Exploud: Whismur line.
:Axew: :Fraxure: :Haxorus: Axew line.
:Drifloon: :Drifblim: Drifloon line.
:Mienfoo: :Mienshao: Mienfoo line.
:Lunatone: Lunatone
:Solrock: Solrock.
:Wingull: :Pelipper: Wingull line.
:Dwebble: :Crustle: Dwebble line.
:Tentacool: :Tentacruel: Tentacool line.
:Wailmer: :Wailord: Wailmer line.
:Luvdisc: Luvdisc.
:Shellder: :Cloyster: Shellder line.
:Horsea: :Seadra: :Kingdra: Horsea line.
:Relicanth: Relicanth.
:Rhyhorn: :Rhydon: :Rhyperior: Rhyhorn line.
:Woobat: :Swoobat: Woobat line.
:Ferroseed: :Ferrothorn: Ferroseed line.
:Snubbull: :Granbull: Snubbull line.
:Yanma: :Yanmega: Yanma line.
:Sigilyph: Sigilyph.
:Nosepass: :Probopass: Nosepass line.
:Makuhita: :Hariyama: Makuhita line.
:Stunky: :Skuntank: Stunky line.
:Nidoran-F: :Nidorina: :Nidoqueen: Nidoran-F line.
:Nidoran-M: :Nidorino: :Nidoking: Nidoran-M line.
:Solosis: :Duosion: :Reuniclus: Solosis line.
:Wynaut: :Wobbuffet: Wynaut line.
:Roggenrola: :Boldore: :Gigalith: Roggenrola line.
:Tauros: Tauros.
:Miltank: Miltank.
:Pachirisu: Pachirisu.
:Chatot: Chatot.
:Mantyke: :Mantine: Mantyke line.
:Clamperl: :Huntail: :Gorebyss: Clamperl line.
:Remoraid: :Octillery: Remoraid line.
:Corsola: Corsola
:Chinchou: :Lanturn: Chinchou line.
:Alomomola: Alomomola.
:Lapras: Lapras.
:Articuno: Articuno.
:Zapdos: Zapdos.
:Moltres: Moltres.
:Diglett: :Dugtrio: Diglett line.
:Trapinch: :Vibrava: :Flygon: Trapinch line.
:Geodude: :Graveler: :Golem: Geodude line.
:Slugma: :Magcargo: Slugma line.
:Shuckle: Shuckle.
:Skorupi: :Drapion: Skorupi line.
:Wooper: :Quagsire: Wooper line.
:Karrablast: :Escavalier: Karrablast line.
:Shelmet: :Accelgor: Shelmet line.
:Carnivine: Carnivine.
:Poliwag: :Poliwhirl: :Poliwrath: :Politoed: Poliwag line.
:Barboach: :Whiscash: Sadly, Barboach line.
:Poochyena: :Mightyena: Poochyena line.
:Pawniard: :Bisharp: Pawniard line.
:Murkrow: :Honchkrow: Murkrow line.
:Lotad: :Lombre: :Ludicolo: Lotad line.
:Buizel: :Floatzel: Buizel line.
:Basculin: Basculin.
:Magnemite: :Magneton: :Magnezone: Magnemite line.
:Voltorb: :Electrode: Voltorb line.
:Swinub: :Piloswine: :Mamoswine: Swinub line.
:Cubchoo: :Beartic: Cubchoo line.
:Smoochum: :Jynx: Smoochum line.
:Sneasel: :Weavile: Sneasel line.
:Timburr: :Gurdurr: :Conkeldurr: Timburr line.
:Torkoal: Torkoal.
:Sandshrew: :Sandslash: Sandshrew line.
:Heatmor: Heatmor.
:Durant: Durant.
:Spearow: :Fearow: Spearow line.
:Gligar: :Gliscor: Gligar line.
:Hoothoot: :Noctowl: Hoothoot line.
:Zorua: :Zoroark: Zorua line.
:Gothita: :Gothorita: :Gothitelle: Gothita line.
:Bonsly: :Sudowoodo: Bonsly line.
:Spinda: Spinda.
:Teddiursa: :Ursaring: Teddiursa line.
:Lickitung: :Lickilicky: Lickitung line.
:Ditto: Ditto.
:Druddigon: Druddigon.
:Deino: :Zweilous: :Hydreigon: Deino line.
This is just weird. Like, one reason could be the fact the ultimate weapon fired 5 years ago, but HOW DID BUNNELBY SURVIVE? (Overabundance, maybe, which makes sense but like, PINSIR? HOW DID PINSIR SURVIVE?)
It's also sad. Like, they decided to exclude my boy Deino, but not stuff like Delibird? (Heck, they could've added it in the DLC! Yet CRYOGONAL got added and Deino didn't!)
Well yeah, because the game only takes place in Lumiose. Most of the Kalos pokemon didn't actually live in the city. Of course, a bunch were imported in for the wild zones, or were attracted to the city for whatever reasons, hence all the Gen 6 mons being in, but it makes sense a lot aren't there.

Although that does make me wonder if there's any pokemon that spawn in or around lumiose in XY that aren't in this game.
 
Although that does make me wonder if there's any pokemon that spawn in or around lumiose in XY that aren't in this game.

Lumiose in XY doesn’t have any wild spawns of its own, but assuming we mean “around Lumiose” in this case to mean “the five routes directly connected to Lumiose,” then we get these families:

- Ledyba
- Skitty
- Combee
- Doduo
- Plusle and Minun
- Buizel
- Skorupi
- Murkrow
- Lotad
- Poliwag
- Basculin
- Diglett
- Slugma
- Trapinch
- Geodude
- Carnivine
- Wooper
- Karrablast
- Shelmet
- Barboach

There’s also Gulpin and Foongus, who appear on Lumiose-adjacent routes in XY and do appear in Z-A, but only via Hyperspace.

Honestly I think it just comes down to it's a smaller scope game, so it gets a smaller scope pokedex. The "main" game of a generation will likely continue getting ~400+ dexes, but not much reason to spring for that otherwise here even if Kalos was the originator of it.

That being said, with the DLC factored in, Z-A is certainly no slouch in the Pokédex department. 364 species!
 
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Well yeah, because the game only takes place in Lumiose. Most of the Kalos pokemon didn't actually live in the city. Of course, a bunch were imported in for the wild zones, or were attracted to the city for whatever reasons, hence all the Gen 6 mons being in, but it makes sense a lot aren't there.

Although that does make me wonder if there's any pokemon that spawn in or around lumiose in XY that aren't in this game.
Lessee, I like, um, Marill an'... um, Azumarill...an'...an' Marill!

In addition to the above I want to point out that XY Lumiose City had an overworld Marill NPC already living free with people out in the open, and I was looking forward to seeing it again in prerelease all the way until the Z-A dex leaked, which managed to doubly disappoint when the scrubbed DLC dex leaked too. To say nothing of the fact that this is also following up Marill's cut from PLA despite being in DP's original Sinnoh dex roster.
 
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