disagree, but marginally. Still gen 8 levels of horrible atm. God bless gen 5
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Metagame Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Hacker
- Start date
A bit late but I needed time to write this. With this post I want to share my scl experience, teams + thoughts about lc meta.
Thoughts before scl started
First of all before starting preparing for my oppos in the break week I tried to understand the meta testing everything. I used to build solid teams but passive last year and generally for other tours so I had to change this. This is what I did firstly, ranking all mons:
There are 3 types of good teams imo:
Foo, vulla, foong, mudbray is the best core atm in lc. Last two mons should be fast mons and you can see all combinations that could be good.
Mareanie teams are the second best teams in lc. I’ll prob build more here but for now these are probably fine. Just wondering if stunky grow-h is fine. And for the chespin one nplot vulla is annoying and maybe shrew but overall it seems solid.
Different teams. They are fishy but still good imo. The hail one is really solid. You need to pay attention vs mudbray and vullaby but overall seems solid.
Larvesta one is interesting. It seems passive so I’m not convinced if it’s really good or not, just pay attention vs dig-a.
Shrew dig-a is really offensive as a team. Testing it, it was fine more or less but I’m not convinced overall. Shrew could be annoying.
Sun team I’m not convinced of sun, but that shroodle set is interesting to explore.
Thoughts after scl
That’s what I thought before starting scl, I deleted some cores which were bad imo.
Now I still think the best core is foongus mud vulla foo + 2 fast mons, but mareanie teams improved a lot during and after scl. There are versions with pinch > vulla or wingull + vulla on ttm that could work. About the chespin team I think it’s worse cuz nplot vulla usage increased a lot and that team sucks vs it. As for foongus teams I’d just add versions with shrew + vulla foong foo mudbray + glimm / elekid / dig-a. For crazy teams I’d delete sun and change Larvesta one with gothita larvesta team that is becoming popular lately, and I’d add screens with bpress numel.
Overall I like the meta rn. I really think our lc council managed really well since the start. I might get in trouble saying this but I think we should have banned tera. Banning tera blast (the move) doesn’t fix the problem imo. Suspecting shellder could be ok, banning it could be possible. Rest I think it’s fine.
Take a look on nplot tground vulla, it’s becoming really strong atm.
SCL preparing + replays + teams analysis
Having said this, lemme pass my scl teams / experience.
I did 6-4 and last scl I played lc I did 7-2 which means I did well. I’m still not satisfied about both my scores. Who knows me knows that I hate losing and I’m a perfectionist, so for me losing just one game means I still have to improve.
Week 1 vs starsama (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-869851
https://pokepast.es/a5db90f2c69ef5d8
I built this team because starsama’s teams were just foongus vulla foo mudbray so shrew goes crazy vs this core, especially under hail.
Mudbray is a bit annoying, you need to play well vs it, ebutton koffing to trap shrew checks, slow foo to trap better with gothita. Tera blast fire gothita was for steels.
I think I had a nice mu and I think I played well and deserved to win. I was unlucky with triple axel, there is one questionable play which is on turn 30. Psychic had 50% of killing ebutton koffing, that’s why I didn’t put it but I had to risk that at that point.
W2 vs envy (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-871706
https://pokepast.es/0bd8c614a2d87fde
I built this because envy’s scout was full of elekid / dig-a and ttm that’s why I thought double electrics with orb tgrass elekid would have been good vs him. Spunch chou is just for a priority.
I still think I had a good mu here but this was the game were I played worse, I started well but at some point I needed to tera foo and on turn 41 I had to put Chou and click spunch he would have stayed in.
Week 3 vs enigma (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-874738
https://pokepast.es/dc66cae36bb43c3d
Enigma scout sucked vs hazards so ttm + spin blocker was amazing vs him. Scarf zorua-h for speed with trick and hbeam. Speed tinka for vulla / baloon for dig-a and shrew, tgrass on mare for dig-a + electrics, dragon on vulla for electrics and fire, no ghost because I had zorua-h. Uturn vulla for getting zorua-h in. Water toed is for shellder.
I think I had another good mu as predicted. I played well and deserved to win even if I dropped spdef I still think I had it with recover mareanie. One questionable play was not saving vulla for shellos endgame since I had tera dragon instead of sacking zorua-h but my plan was to not reveal scarf on zorua-h so I could use this team again vs another scl player.
Week 4 vs edgy (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-877712
https://pokepast.es/766520cb97d88bf5
Edgy’s scout was bad vs grow-h and I think grow-h works only on ttm so that’s why I brought again ttm but with grow-h > zorua-h.
Team became pretty popular after that game and it’s still used and still solid.
Again here I had a nice mu and I played really well, spikes carried and dragon vulla closed it.
W5 vs Loki (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-879455
https://pokepast.es/0de3d22c0711ee02
Loki’s scout was bad vs hazards , nplot vulla and scarf shrew so I decided to build it and I absolutely wanted to use foongus.
Another good mu, at this point I knew I had a strong solid vision of the meta, I was really happy about how I was building. Nothing else to say I played really well. Fishing non scarf shrew worked hard.
W6 vs Jake (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-880798
https://pokepast.es/360c87c492e5f708
This team is crazy and I was. I brought this vs Jake because I thought Jake doesn’t know all sets, he might struggle vs this finding out sets (I had a version with chingling before). Grassy terrain + acro shroodle, cmind floon, hazards glimm, sd trail foo and the beast cmind rest salac berry gothita.
I think mu was fine I fished for foongus team. In game Jake played well with mudbray. I also played well except one questionable move. I should have sacked floon vs his foong and sweeped with gothita I was scared he had tera ghost foongus but I don’t think so I prob had to do it and it was insta win. Game ended with a speed tie so I can’t complain about how I played and how the game went, not my fault.
W7 vs eternal spirit (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-883036
https://pokepast.es/722243a7036f7e1e
I just wanted to bring foongus and solid 5 mons + his scout was bad vs hazards so I built around hazards + mixed vulla since shrew could have been annoying + dig-a sweeping + sucker priority. Electric vulla was for electrics and flying mons (especially wingull).
Mu was fine imo and I played really well.
W8 vs tazz (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-884931
https://pokepast.es/722243a7036f7e1e
I didn’t know what to bring honestly it was w8 so it’s normal. I just thought ok let’s reuse last week team and play solid.
This was the first week where I think my mu wasn’t good, we both played well and game probably ended with a 50/50 in the end I still had better odds and not teraing glimmet vs scarf foo was a huge play.
W9 vs Wail Wailord (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-886818
https://pokepast.es/298437fb4edfa2ea
I brought this because nplot tground vulla was good vs him + chou for wingull + elekid usages.
It’s just standard you spin with shrew so you can play with endure vulla and sweep in lategame.
Mu was good imo and we both played well. Fishing scarf shrew worked. This game was important because I let my team going to poffs.
Semifinals vs enigma (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-888137
https://pokepast.es/efaf7299b47fbfe4
For semis I thought I could bring again ttm against him but honestly his scout was hard to understand, I should have brought foongus.
Mu wasn’t good + I should have played better vs mareanie, putting grow-h was a mistake and I had to check t ghost foo since putting it vs my foo instead of mare was sus.
Overall im pretty happy with how I played and how I built. I should have probably had a better result than 6-4 since I wasn’t lucky in some loses but I still think I could have played better especially vs envy.
Last teams I built
These are last teams I built that are updated and I consider solid.
https://pokepast.es/c2bbdfc8f7341f71
First paste is different, it has stalk for grow-h and tspike mare, dgleam toed for vulla. Plan is easy, you click tspikes vs poison mons (better if you catch foongus), if you catch foongus you just send grow-h to sleep and click stalk next turn. If you are lucky you eliminate vulla and then it’s easy setting up and winning with grow-h. If you play vs mareanie, it’s still fine you can catch a vulla switch on mud shot (it depends on the situation).
I don’t have the paste ready for the second team but you could guess sets easily.
https://pokepast.es/6ab3f90933ec95be
Third team plan is easy: spam hazards, click smash, let your oppo click tera vs it, sack it, then nplot vulla should win. Ice shard is for endure nplot vulla, tera rock is for tera water mons. A special set could also work with tera electric (always to catch tera water mons), hpump and ibeam. Roar mud was just a fish, you can change it if you prefer cc (lowering toed’s life).
Enjoy.
Thoughts before scl started
First of all before starting preparing for my oppos in the break week I tried to understand the meta testing everything. I used to build solid teams but passive last year and generally for other tours so I had to change this. This is what I did firstly, ranking all mons:
There are 3 types of good teams imo:
Foo, vulla, foong, mudbray is the best core atm in lc. Last two mons should be fast mons and you can see all combinations that could be good.
Mareanie teams are the second best teams in lc. I’ll prob build more here but for now these are probably fine. Just wondering if stunky grow-h is fine. And for the chespin one nplot vulla is annoying and maybe shrew but overall it seems solid.
Different teams. They are fishy but still good imo. The hail one is really solid. You need to pay attention vs mudbray and vullaby but overall seems solid.
Larvesta one is interesting. It seems passive so I’m not convinced if it’s really good or not, just pay attention vs dig-a.
Shrew dig-a is really offensive as a team. Testing it, it was fine more or less but I’m not convinced overall. Shrew could be annoying.
Sun team I’m not convinced of sun, but that shroodle set is interesting to explore.
Thoughts after scl
That’s what I thought before starting scl, I deleted some cores which were bad imo.
Now I still think the best core is foongus mud vulla foo + 2 fast mons, but mareanie teams improved a lot during and after scl. There are versions with pinch > vulla or wingull + vulla on ttm that could work. About the chespin team I think it’s worse cuz nplot vulla usage increased a lot and that team sucks vs it. As for foongus teams I’d just add versions with shrew + vulla foong foo mudbray + glimm / elekid / dig-a. For crazy teams I’d delete sun and change Larvesta one with gothita larvesta team that is becoming popular lately, and I’d add screens with bpress numel.
Overall I like the meta rn. I really think our lc council managed really well since the start. I might get in trouble saying this but I think we should have banned tera. Banning tera blast (the move) doesn’t fix the problem imo. Suspecting shellder could be ok, banning it could be possible. Rest I think it’s fine.
Take a look on nplot tground vulla, it’s becoming really strong atm.
SCL preparing + replays + teams analysis
Having said this, lemme pass my scl teams / experience.
I did 6-4 and last scl I played lc I did 7-2 which means I did well. I’m still not satisfied about both my scores. Who knows me knows that I hate losing and I’m a perfectionist, so for me losing just one game means I still have to improve.
Week 1 vs starsama (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-869851
https://pokepast.es/a5db90f2c69ef5d8
I built this team because starsama’s teams were just foongus vulla foo mudbray so shrew goes crazy vs this core, especially under hail.
Mudbray is a bit annoying, you need to play well vs it, ebutton koffing to trap shrew checks, slow foo to trap better with gothita. Tera blast fire gothita was for steels.
I think I had a nice mu and I think I played well and deserved to win. I was unlucky with triple axel, there is one questionable play which is on turn 30. Psychic had 50% of killing ebutton koffing, that’s why I didn’t put it but I had to risk that at that point.
W2 vs envy (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-871706
https://pokepast.es/0bd8c614a2d87fde
I built this because envy’s scout was full of elekid / dig-a and ttm that’s why I thought double electrics with orb tgrass elekid would have been good vs him. Spunch chou is just for a priority.
I still think I had a good mu here but this was the game were I played worse, I started well but at some point I needed to tera foo and on turn 41 I had to put Chou and click spunch he would have stayed in.
Week 3 vs enigma (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-874738
https://pokepast.es/dc66cae36bb43c3d
Enigma scout sucked vs hazards so ttm + spin blocker was amazing vs him. Scarf zorua-h for speed with trick and hbeam. Speed tinka for vulla / baloon for dig-a and shrew, tgrass on mare for dig-a + electrics, dragon on vulla for electrics and fire, no ghost because I had zorua-h. Uturn vulla for getting zorua-h in. Water toed is for shellder.
I think I had another good mu as predicted. I played well and deserved to win even if I dropped spdef I still think I had it with recover mareanie. One questionable play was not saving vulla for shellos endgame since I had tera dragon instead of sacking zorua-h but my plan was to not reveal scarf on zorua-h so I could use this team again vs another scl player.
Week 4 vs edgy (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-877712
https://pokepast.es/766520cb97d88bf5
Edgy’s scout was bad vs grow-h and I think grow-h works only on ttm so that’s why I brought again ttm but with grow-h > zorua-h.
Team became pretty popular after that game and it’s still used and still solid.
Again here I had a nice mu and I played really well, spikes carried and dragon vulla closed it.
W5 vs Loki (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-879455
https://pokepast.es/0de3d22c0711ee02
Loki’s scout was bad vs hazards , nplot vulla and scarf shrew so I decided to build it and I absolutely wanted to use foongus.
Another good mu, at this point I knew I had a strong solid vision of the meta, I was really happy about how I was building. Nothing else to say I played really well. Fishing non scarf shrew worked hard.
W6 vs Jake (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-880798
https://pokepast.es/360c87c492e5f708
This team is crazy and I was. I brought this vs Jake because I thought Jake doesn’t know all sets, he might struggle vs this finding out sets (I had a version with chingling before). Grassy terrain + acro shroodle, cmind floon, hazards glimm, sd trail foo and the beast cmind rest salac berry gothita.
I think mu was fine I fished for foongus team. In game Jake played well with mudbray. I also played well except one questionable move. I should have sacked floon vs his foong and sweeped with gothita I was scared he had tera ghost foongus but I don’t think so I prob had to do it and it was insta win. Game ended with a speed tie so I can’t complain about how I played and how the game went, not my fault.
W7 vs eternal spirit (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-883036
https://pokepast.es/722243a7036f7e1e
I just wanted to bring foongus and solid 5 mons + his scout was bad vs hazards so I built around hazards + mixed vulla since shrew could have been annoying + dig-a sweeping + sucker priority. Electric vulla was for electrics and flying mons (especially wingull).
Mu was fine imo and I played really well.
W8 vs tazz (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-884931
https://pokepast.es/722243a7036f7e1e
I didn’t know what to bring honestly it was w8 so it’s normal. I just thought ok let’s reuse last week team and play solid.
This was the first week where I think my mu wasn’t good, we both played well and game probably ended with a 50/50 in the end I still had better odds and not teraing glimmet vs scarf foo was a huge play.
W9 vs Wail Wailord (W)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-886818
https://pokepast.es/298437fb4edfa2ea
I brought this because nplot tground vulla was good vs him + chou for wingull + elekid usages.
It’s just standard you spin with shrew so you can play with endure vulla and sweep in lategame.
Mu was good imo and we both played well. Fishing scarf shrew worked. This game was important because I let my team going to poffs.
Semifinals vs enigma (L)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9lc-888137
https://pokepast.es/efaf7299b47fbfe4
For semis I thought I could bring again ttm against him but honestly his scout was hard to understand, I should have brought foongus.
Mu wasn’t good + I should have played better vs mareanie, putting grow-h was a mistake and I had to check t ghost foo since putting it vs my foo instead of mare was sus.
Overall im pretty happy with how I played and how I built. I should have probably had a better result than 6-4 since I wasn’t lucky in some loses but I still think I could have played better especially vs envy.
Last teams I built
These are last teams I built that are updated and I consider solid.
https://pokepast.es/c2bbdfc8f7341f71
First paste is different, it has stalk for grow-h and tspike mare, dgleam toed for vulla. Plan is easy, you click tspikes vs poison mons (better if you catch foongus), if you catch foongus you just send grow-h to sleep and click stalk next turn. If you are lucky you eliminate vulla and then it’s easy setting up and winning with grow-h. If you play vs mareanie, it’s still fine you can catch a vulla switch on mud shot (it depends on the situation).
I don’t have the paste ready for the second team but you could guess sets easily.
https://pokepast.es/6ab3f90933ec95be
Third team plan is easy: spam hazards, click smash, let your oppo click tera vs it, sack it, then nplot vulla should win. Ice shard is for endure nplot vulla, tera rock is for tera water mons. A special set could also work with tera electric (always to catch tera water mons), hpump and ibeam. Roar mud was just a fish, you can change it if you prefer cc (lowering toed’s life).
Enjoy.
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Last edited:
About Terastallization:
The LC council and leadership have discussed the possibility of banning or suspecting it, but doing so would go against the Smogon SV tiering policy (see: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/terastallization-tiering-update.3760202/)
While some of us do not believe that Terastallization is a problem in the metagame at the moment, banning it would put LC’s official tier status at risk (including its inclusion in SCL and Slam). Therefore, despite tko's post we do not think it is worth pursuing.
The possibility of a ban or suspect test was discussed for when SV is no longer the current generation. We are open to revisiting Terastallization at that point, as it would allow for a more flexible approach without the constraints imposed by SV tiering policies.
We're posting a survey to gather broader community feedback. This survey includes questions regarding the potential banning of Shellder, Tera Blast, Gothita and Sleep, as well as the possible unbanning of other Pokémon.
Survey link: https://www.smogon.com/forums/lc-tiering-survey/
The LC council and leadership have discussed the possibility of banning or suspecting it, but doing so would go against the Smogon SV tiering policy (see: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/terastallization-tiering-update.3760202/)
While some of us do not believe that Terastallization is a problem in the metagame at the moment, banning it would put LC’s official tier status at risk (including its inclusion in SCL and Slam). Therefore, despite tko's post we do not think it is worth pursuing.
The possibility of a ban or suspect test was discussed for when SV is no longer the current generation. We are open to revisiting Terastallization at that point, as it would allow for a more flexible approach without the constraints imposed by SV tiering policies.
We're posting a survey to gather broader community feedback. This survey includes questions regarding the potential banning of Shellder, Tera Blast, Gothita and Sleep, as well as the possible unbanning of other Pokémon.
Survey link: https://www.smogon.com/forums/lc-tiering-survey/
For too long, the culture of Smogon has been one of no; one where tiering decisions is about justifying why we can’t do something. We should transform it into a culture of how; one where we say we can make change. Just remember that.... those who continue to contribute to this tier in the future. That person ain't gonna be me tho. Heysup's wise words remind me why it's easier to just keep your head down and play the game.