Resource ORAS OU Viability Rankings

[mixnite]

it's been a few months since my last post (sorry!), but I'd still like to wrap up and finish writing my thoughts on the Physically Defensive Pokemon in OU continuing on with the Ground-types in the tier. my original views have changed quite a bit especially after the recent ladder tournament, my two ORASPL games and now my work on the Checks and Counters thread but the crux remains the same.
​

A-
29. Landorus-Therian​

I think Landorus-T is rated wayyy too low on the viability rankings. Landorus-T should be rated at least A tier alongside Rotom-W and Chansey. it is such an incredible pivot in how it slows down otherwise massively dangerous threats such as the almighty Mega Metagross. it's also easily a top 3 Stealth Rock user rivaling Garchomp and Mew (stop using Stealth Rock Excadrill).


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe OR 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Imprison / Rock Tomb

my personal favourite set is the fast Imprison set since it lets Landorus-T get up hazards while preventing opposing Stealth Rock vs. literally everything barring Mew and Jolly Garchomp.
​

while I personally prefer Imprison Landorus-T, I have to admit that it's no contest; nothing gets up Stealth Rock quite like Mew.​

as you all know I am a sucker for offense/ hyper offense builds so having consistent Stealth Rock users like Landorus-T and Mew is absolutely massive. however this isn't all that Landorus-T can do...

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe OR 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Toxic

God forbid you face this with Mega Lopunny or Excadrill without Toxic or any contact attacker really. this Landorus-T set rivals Garchomp in its ability to get up the hazards and additionally, keep them up. none of the removal options in the tier really want to switch in to any of Landorus-T's moves. Excadrill gets smashed by Earthquake, Defog Zapdos takes an uncomfortably large chunk from Stone Edge while the Lati twins hate having to take a U-Turn into a potential Pursuit user.

all in all, Landorus-T is a great Physically Defensive piece with immense utility from Stealth Rock, Intimidate and U-Turn in addition to its powerful EdgeQuake combo letting it keep the hazards and thus pressure on the opposing team.
​

42. Hippowdon​

if you peruse through the Checks and Counters thread you will notice that Hippowdon is listed as a check to a great many physical attackers. the only real physical attackers that truly threaten the hippo are Weavile with its super-effective Icicle Crash and Mega Gyarados with its super-effective Waterfall. that's it. everything else gets answered by the beast.

​

Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD OR 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind / Toxic / Rock Slide
- Slack Off

Landorus-T with recovery. one of the biggest benefits of running Hippowdon is how it not only deals with the physical attackers in the tier, but also special attacking threats like Volcarona. there really isn't much more to say about this guy. get up Stealth Rock and click the other three moves accordingly.
​

B
57. Seismitoad​

this is one of those weirdo Pokemon that actually has a real niche thanks to one or two incredible interactions that make up for its otherwise mediocre showing. in this case, it's that Seismitoad completely absolutely ruins Rotom-W. there is absolutely nothing Rotom-W can do to make progress against a team that has a healthy Seismitoad. and that makes for a pretty good niche for an otherwise RU Pokemon.


Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake / Toxic
- Refresh / Knock Off / Toxic

a third Stealth Rock user. the main draw here is the combination of Water Absorb and Refresh. Water Absorb makes Seismitoad completely immune and actually heal from Rotom-W's Hydro Pump while Refresh allows it to block potential progress from Will-O-Wisp. however this isn't all there is to Seismitoad's game. Knock Off makes for really good utility and progress making preventing Seismitoad from being a completely passive blob.
​

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while this is a little late, I do think that both Landorus-T and Hippowdon should be moved up just a bit. I believe Hippowdon should be ranked alongside Tyranitar since they're both staple pieces of arguably the strongest style in the tier. I also think Landorus should be ranked alongside Rotom-W as opposed to being lower than never used never seen Ferrothorn...​

 

[Kokona Aoba]

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe OR 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Toxic

None of the removal options in the tier really want to switch in to any of Landorus-T's moves.​

Cats still don't rate Defog m-sciz...

 

[Ithi]

it's been a few months since my last post (sorry!), but I'd still like to wrap up and finish writing my thoughts on the Physically Defensive Pokemon in OU continuing on with the Ground-types in the tier. my original views have changed quite a bit especially after the recent ladder tournament, my two ORASPL games and now my work on the Checks and Counters thread but the crux remains the same.


I think Landorus-T is rated wayyy too low on the viability rankings. Landorus-T should be rated at least A tier alongside Rotom-W and Chansey. it is such an incredible pivot in how it slows down otherwise massively dangerous threats such as the almighty Mega Metagross. it's also easily a top 3 Stealth Rock user rivaling Garchomp and Mew (stop using Stealth Rock Excadrill).


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe OR 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Imprison / Rock Tomb

my personal favourite set is the fast Imprison set since it lets Landorus-T get up hazards while preventing opposing Stealth Rock vs. literally everything barring Mew and Jolly Garchomp.



as you all know I am a sucker for offense/ hyper offense builds so having consistent Stealth Rock users like Landorus-T and Mew is absolutely massive. however this isn't all that Landorus-T can do...

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe OR 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Toxic

God forbid you face this with Mega Lopunny or Excadrill without Toxic or any contact attacker really. this Landorus-T set rivals Garchomp in its ability to get up the hazards and additionally, keep them up. none of the removal options in the tier really want to switch in to any of Landorus-T's moves. Excadrill gets smashed by Earthquake, Defog Zapdos takes an uncomfortably large chunk from Stone Edge while the Lati twins hate having to take a U-Turn into a potential Pursuit user.

all in all, Landorus-T is a great Physically Defensive piece with immense utility from Stealth Rock, Intimidate and U-Turn in addition to its powerful EdgeQuake combo letting it keep the hazards and thus pressure on the opposing team.


if you peruse through the Checks and Counters thread you will notice that Hippowdon is listed as a check to a great many physical attackers. the only real physical attackers that truly threaten the hippo are Weavile with its super-effective Icicle Crash and Mega Gyarados with its super-effective Waterfall. that's it. everything else gets answered by the beast.

​

Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD OR 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind / Toxic / Rock Slide
- Slack Off

Landorus-T with recovery. one of the biggest benefits of running Hippowdon is how it not only deals with the physical attackers in the tier, but also special attacking threats like Volcarona. there really isn't much more to say about this guy. get up Stealth Rock and click the other three moves accordingly.
​

this is one of those weirdo Pokemon that actually has a real niche thanks to one or two incredible interactions that make up for its otherwise mediocre showing. in this case, it's that Seismitoad completely absolutely ruins Rotom-W. there is absolutely nothing Rotom-W can do to make progress against a team that has a healthy Seismitoad. and that makes for a pretty good niche for an otherwise RU Pokemon.


Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake / Toxic
- Refresh / Knock Off / Toxic

a third Stealth Rock user. the main draw here is the combination of Water Absorb and Refresh. Water Absorb makes Seismitoad completely immune and actually heal from Rotom-W's Hydro Pump while Refresh allows it to block potential progress from Will-O-Wisp. however this isn't all there is to Seismitoad's game. Knock Off makes for really good utility and progress making preventing Seismitoad from being a completely passive blob.
​

---
​

while this is a little late, I do think that both Landorus-T and Hippowdon should be moved up just a bit. I believe Hippowdon should be ranked alongside Tyranitar since they're both staple pieces of arguably the strongest style in the tier. I also think Landorus should be ranked alongside Rotom-W as opposed to being lower than never used never seen Ferrothorn...​

I must respectfully disagree with this hippowdon assessment, I believe its ranking is fine. The problem with hippowdon has moreso to do with its passivity which is funny because it has a very good physical attack stat. The problem lies in the fact hippowdon is a grounded mon, whereas lando-t can just float above hazards. On paper, hippowdon makes you wonder why more people aren't using this team on all sorts of teams as a catch-all glue. While you make excellent points on it only truly fearing the likes of weavile, hippowdon can find itself struggling in the hazard war.

IMHO, hippo's rank reflects its niche as this fat sturdy mon balance structures and certain sand sixes appreciate, its lack of consistent splashability holds it back, and its through no fault of its own.

Everything else you said is cooking, type shi.

I'd also like to vouch for my boy dnite to move up on the rankings, cb nite is a hell of a drug and we need to stop pretending it isn't an immediate threat in most if not all games you see it in.

 

[im_m0rtal.]

I must respectfully disagree with this hippowdon assessment, I believe its ranking is fine. The problem with hippowdon has moreso to do with its passivity which is funny because it has a very good physical attack stat. The problem lies in the fact hippowdon is a grounded mon, whereas lando-t can just float above hazards. On paper, hippowdon makes you wonder why more people aren't using this team on all sorts of teams as a catch-all glue. While you make excellent points on it only truly fearing the likes of weavile, hippowdon can find itself struggling in the hazard war.

IMHO, hippo's rank reflects its niche as this fat sturdy mon balance structures and certain sand sixes appreciate, its lack of consistent splashability holds it back, and its through no fault of its own.

Everything else you said is cooking, type shi.

I'd also like to vouch for my boy dnite to move up on the rankings, cb nite is a hell of a drug and we need to stop pretending it isn't an immediate threat in most if not all games you see it in.

I agree with the CBNite assessment, however I am surprised its Ithi pointing it out and not mixnite.
The LANDORUS and Seismitoad points mentioned by mixnite are valid, and i fully agree with his hippowdon take. Hippo is commonly used alongside excadrill so hazards shouldn't be that bad?
Also, another thing with hippowdon is guessing its moves. Sometimes, the difference between whirlwind/toxic/rock slide can make all the difference.
An issue i find with hippowdon however is the fact that tyranitar is just simply very good, even on its own as a breaker / mega.

 

[Ruffles]

New Changes

Rises (rises usually to the bottom of the next tier)
A- (#30) -> A (#25)
B+ (#42) -> A- (#35)
B (#48) -> B+ (#47)
C- (#74) -> top of B- (#62)

Drops (drops usually to the top of the next tier)
A- (#33) -> B+ (#34)
B- (#64) -> bottom of B- (#72)

The VR has been updated to reflect the above

With SPL starting up again, wanted to revive this thread. mixnite maybe also drops a yt video too

---------------------

For the next discussion topic, feel free to talk about anything really I'll keep it open since its been months. Feel free to talk about the new changes or changes you want to see / current metagame

For me, quick / interesting things:
- Probably would put Mega metagross at S instead of S+
- Maybe drop Bisharp from A as Weavile has gotten so good that i feel like you usually just go Weavile
- Maybe put Ferrothorn A from A-
- Maybe drop cloyster a rank, it doesn't feel nearly as good with so much keldeo around
- Maybe drop Mega Gardevoir as it feels lackluster
- Would consider raising Gengar & Mola
- Probably drop Aero a rank its so useless compared to Mew as a lead

 

[im_m0rtal.]

These changes are great.
Mega Metagross to S is a good change. The meta is at a fine state right now and metagross isn't a threat worthy of S+ for now. Currently, there have been a lot of different megas used instead of metagross, which doesn't help its case.
Dropping cloyster makes sense. There has been an influx of water type pokemon which hasn't been great for cloyster. Also, the ban of king's rock makes it worse too.
The other pokemon are fine I feel, if anything I'd say that aero being dropped a rank might make sense the most out of all of them.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

I like these changes a lot, I don't think Mega Metagross deserves S+ anymore, I think the value it brings isn't a whole tier above anything else. Mega diversity is very high. I also think Gengar deserves to rise, I think the set options and the ability to blast through teams make it deserve higher than 73 (though I dont know how much higher), also think that with how common Keldeo is, Id support cloyster dropping. I don't think Bisharp dropping makes a ton of sense though, just because it not being so hazard weak is a great advantage over Weavile.

 

[JackRG]

- Maybe drop Mega Gardevoir as it feels lackluster

I disagree I think its quite an underrated threat rn. I've been experimenting with it, here is a cool set you guys should try

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 100 HP / 168 Def / 56 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Basically still kills everything it needs to and still outruns lando while no longer being deathly afraid of physical attacks, as one go to example:

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash (85 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 280-330 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash (85 BP) vs. 100 HP / 168 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 223-264 (73.8 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[BluBirD]

Hello oras community, time for yet another quick metagame analysis.
First thing i'm gonna touch on quickly is how funny the progress in this tier is, some years ago we had a very modern looking tier with techs popping around from every corner(and understandably so) starting with something like the impact of mons like volcanion going from the original set of just modest specs 2hko'ing rotom-wash etc to it being shifted to a more defensive role on the cofagrigus teams that were the teams to beat at the time due to its niche defensive profile and surprisingly decent longevity for a mon with no recovery other than protect and leftovers while also being weak to all hazards known to mankind and then people realized that scarf is actually an incredibly good glue mon for a lot of teams and now there seems to be a slight decline to that to make way for assault vests incredible utility vs offense and bulkier teams alike which makes me think that volcanion is once again used to do upfront damage and trade 1v1 with mons much like specs did! At the same time a lot of people were also trying to use more garchomp and clef as their rockers, leaving poor Landorus-T feeling lonely on the side, but now lando genuinely feels like the most splashable and versatile rocker on the offensive metagame taking roles similar to its "peak" days in the tier with rh and just max/max on its HP and defense but the script can now change because(credit to ruffles here) landorus is also an incredible spdef pivot if you don't really need the contact punish of rocky helmet.
Rotoms went faster and faster and now people are terrified to run anything less than 200 defense with max hp given how easy it is for weavile to spam the funny ice move, latios is once again becoming better and better and clefable is running it back to its twave days despite excadrill being everywhere.
Make no mistake tho, this is NOT a rant but a mere appreciation note.
I've been a "hater" of old looking teams seeing use in big tournaments because i used to think that it was a sign of lazy building(which in some if not most cases at the time was in fact true) but i find myself happy again to see that the tier can still go back to its roots and feel fresh and innovative at the same time(credit to our builders of course)

This whole segment feels like a nice pass to the first mon i really wanted to talk about for this current meta which is keldeo, a mon that has notoriously dominated the tier to unfathomable levels in current gen oras ou with its specs set, it really feels like it's gunning back to that same idea which is oversimplified to "click strong moves, KO strong mons". Specs imo is currently by far its best set adding some extra sauce with the potential of focus blast becoming more and more "needed" and people(myself included) pushing it over the edge with modest > timid to achieve absurd feats like ko'ing serperior, metagross, rotom etc with just 1 click which feels especially strong vs the sand teams that are everywhere because they're so easy to use and build.

And then we have my current personal favorite mon to use right now which is zapdos to any shape, size or form.
Everyone knows how zapdos functions as a physdef pivot/wall at times with punishing coverage and 2 great abilities that punish teams in different ways but i really wanna touch quickly on how lethal spdef zapdos is right now, practically shutting down serperior and draining the leaf storms is often good enough to even lose your zapdos over for a lot of teams, taking on stuff like rotom/heatran/zam and even volcanion and keldeo if the proper conditions are met is just brilliant especially on pressure sets, i'm gonna leave a blank statement saying that it's a mon that still has a lot of room to experiment with its sets which i hope can be shown this season in spl, lastly one big shout to offensive zap which feels like it can be unstoppable vs BO and leaves no room for mistakes if you're willing to give up some bulk for the ability to 2hko most pivots not named chansey, calm clefable, hippowdon or mega-venusaur.

Closing with saying that i have a LOT of cool sets and ideas in my mind that i can't wait to talk about but all in due time.

Good luck to all players in spl and all oras tours that are on the way now and just a genuine reminder for everyone reading this that it costs nothing to not be a dick and we can all make a good step forward into helping people that are in need of help even tho there might not be a very visible reward to it.

I love oras ou and i put my heart out to it every chance that i get and i hope more people will keep following along, stay safe everyone!