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Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

Hi.
Hydrametr0nice said:
I just tested this with Slow Start and Intimidate, and both abilities activated when Ability Shield was obtained under Neutralizing Gas. Maybe this was patched? Feel free to retest it to make sure.

Video proof: https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/pull/11583

Edit: Intimidate still doesn't activate if Ability Shield is acquired after Gastro Acid has been used.
Edit2: If two Pokémon with Ability Shield swap items under Neutralizing Gas, their abilities won't re-activate.
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Yep, seems patched. Good catch. They changed several interactions with NGas after I made that post presumably because it wasn't regularly obtainable in the game at the time I ran those old tests. Repeating the same sequence with the same Pokemon in the same trainer battle yields different results in the new footage than what I showed in part 3 of the old video.

Simsalagrimm said:
Thanks!

I have also a question regarding the interaction between multi-hit moves and Tinted Lens, Technician, and Adaptability. If the user loses their Ability after the first hit (due to Mummy, Wandering Spirit, or Lingering Aroma), do the subsequent hits still receive the damage boost? (I expect the answer to be "No", but I could not find any evidence online).
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Tested with Lingering Aroma in this footage. All of Tinted Lens, Technician, and Adaptability seemed to apply on the first hit and ceased applying on subsequent hits of the contact multi-hit attack. PS! itself appears to implement this correctly in all three cases, though interestingly it looks like the damage calculator incorrectly assumes that specifically Adaptability applies for all hits of the move even though it doesn't in-game.

Hope this helps.
 
DarkFE said:
Yep, seems patched. Good catch. They changed several interactions with NGas after I made that post presumably because it wasn't regularly obtainable in the game at the time I ran those old tests. Repeating the same sequence with the same Pokemon in the same trainer battle yields different results in the new footage than what I showed in part 3 of the old video.
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Expanding on this, it would be nice to test what happens if a Pokémon loses Ability Shield while Neutralizing Gas is active. Unfortunately, I think most abilities (if not all) with clear "visual" End events are absent in SV. I've seen that you've done tests with Desolate Land, so if Desolate Land still shuts off under Neutralizing Gas, maybe it could be used to test this.
 
Hydrametr0nice said:
Expanding on this, it would be nice to test what happens if a Pokémon loses Ability Shield while Neutralizing Gas is active. Unfortunately, I think most abilities (if not all) with clear "visual" End events are absent in SV. I've seen that you've done tests with Desolate Land, so if Desolate Land still shuts off under Neutralizing Gas, maybe it could be used to test this.
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Hi again. Using Corrosive Gas or Trick with Neutralizing Gas Weezing-Galar onto an Ability Shield Desolate Land target in order to remove the Ability Shield results in the Extremely Harsh Sunlight remaining on the field. Neutralizing Gas does disable Desolate Land under non-Ability Shield circumstances, showcased in the same footage. Trick was tested here to make sure nothing funny was happening with Corrosive Gas specifically. Hope this helps.
 
I think this may not be quite the right place to ask but I'm not sure where else would be relevant - is it possible to load a pokemon into a battle without any moves?
 
You can't legally have a Pokemon with no moves, but if you have an Assault Vest and nothing but status moves, or if your only move is Belch or Stuff Cheeks, none of the moves are selectable so you get to use Struggle right away.

I actually have a Pokemon that puts this to good use in a specific situation: a level 1 Neutralizing Gas Koffing with only Belch, which I exclusively bring to Ditto raids where the host doesn't know how Ditto raids work and brings something strong. Normally, all Ditto raids are Imposter and will transform into the host immediately, but Neutralizing Gas prevents that--instead, it will transform into whichever Pokemon makes the first move. By using Struggle right away, I can guarantee Koffing wins that race, because it only takes 1 A press on the fight menu to lock in Struggle in this situation, whereas everyone else needs 3: once to select Fight, once to select a move, and once to select a target.
 
SadisticMystic said:
You can't legally have a Pokemon with no moves, but if you have an Assault Vest and nothing but status moves, or if your only move is Belch or Stuff Cheeks, none of the moves are selectable so you get to use Struggle right away.

I actually have a Pokemon that puts this to good use in a specific situation: a level 1 Neutralizing Gas Koffing with only Belch, which I exclusively bring to Ditto raids where the host doesn't know how Ditto raids work and brings something strong. Normally, all Ditto raids are Imposter and will transform into the host immediately, but Neutralizing Gas prevents that--instead, it will transform into whichever Pokemon makes the first move. By using Struggle right away, I can guarantee Koffing wins that race, because it only takes 1 A press on the fight menu to lock in Struggle in this situation, whereas everyone else needs 3: once to select Fight, once to select a move, and once to select a target.
Click to expand...

I am pleasantly surprised to see that instant struggle has a worthwhile niche somewhere! my question doesn't have to do with legality though (I am fully aware that the game won't let you try to forget a pokemon's only move), I am more asking if there is anything stopping you from hacking in a pokemon that has an empty moveset and taking it into a wifi battle. if there is something that stops you, what is it? (does the game have a failsafe that gives you a move when you try to take the mon out of the box? is the pokemon data considered unreadable? in the worst case scenario, does something horrible happen to the save file?) I would try myself, but I don't have access to any of the tools necessary for testing this kind of thing.
 
timeflow said:
my question doesn't have to do with legality though (I am fully aware that the game won't let you try to forget a pokemon's only move), I am more asking if there is anything stopping you from hacking in a pokemon that has an empty moveset and taking it into a wifi battle. if there is something that stops you, what is it? (does the game have a failsafe that gives you a move when you try to take the mon out of the box? is the pokemon data considered unreadable? in the worst case scenario, does something horrible happen to the save file?) I would try myself, but I don't have access to any of the tools necessary for testing this kind of thing.
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Nothing in SV stops you from grabbing a Pokémon out of the box with all of its moves deleted and starting a battle with a wild Pokémon or a local Link Battle. If you click "Battle", it will say it has no moves and use Struggle.

 
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Hi, are you still taking requests for Starmobile tests? I have a few questions regarding their mechanics:
  • Choice Items: Do Choice items apply both the stat multiplier and the move-lock effect to Starmobiles? (This may apply to all mechanics that involve move restrictions)
  • Weather: How is Sandstorm damage calculated for them? Is it the standard 1/16th?
  • Copycat: Can Copycat (and similar moves) successfully copy Starmobile moves? I know that Torque moves cannot be copied, but what about the other move they possess?
  • Pain Split: Does Pain Split work on them? If so, does it calculate HP based on their visible health bar or an internal value?
  • Leech Seed: Does Leech Seed work on them? If so, how does it work? (This may apply to all mechanics that involve HPs)
Thanks in advance.
 
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When a Pokemon uses a multi-target move and there's only one other Pokemon, the damage isn't reduced, right? What if there are only 2 other Pokemon and one of them avoids the move with telepathy?
 
sumwun said:
When a Pokemon uses a multi-target move and there's only one other Pokemon, the damage isn't reduced, right? What if there are only 2 other Pokemon and one of them avoids the move with telepathy?
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Telepathy is implemented as a regular immunity, like Water Absorb or Soundproof. I'm assuming it behaves the same way and that the damage is still spread. The number of targets is accounted for earlier, right before all kinds of immunities are checked.
 
Tea Guzzler said:
interesting discovery in regards to ogerpon - if it has an ability that can't be removed via skill swap (such as protosynthesis or power construct), then after terastallizing, it keeps that ability until it switches out (after then, it becomes embody aspect as normal). when this happens, embody aspect doesn't activate. when testing with proto, it kept its boost until it switched out, after which it longer applied thanks to no longer having proto.
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Hey, there was a recently reported bug that might have some code implications related to this mechanic. I'd like to know for which abilities (with different flags) this occurs—for which initial abilities Embody Aspect does not activate until the Pokémon switches out and back in.

Abilities that can be tested:
  • Gulp Missile: can be Traced, but can't be suppressed and doesn't activate on Transform
  • Hunger Switch: can be suppressed, but can't be Traced and doesn't activate on Transform
  • Comatose: activates when Transformed, but can't be suppressed or Traced
These should cover all cases. I intentionally left out Protosynthesis, since that ability was patched at some point along the way.
 
According to this breakdown, modifiers (attack, speed, whatever) happen in an order based on what is causing the modifier, bei it an attack, ability or whatever: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sword-shield-battle-mechanics-research.3655528/page-59#post-8685465

I'm wondering specifically about this part: >For moves, it seems to be based on the move's priority (e.g. Helping Hand is +5 priority), then on the user's Speed, similar to how regular turn order works.

Is it based on the move's priority when the move was executed, or the base priority for the move? Let's say I have an electric mon who used Charge on the previous turn. I am using an electric move this turn. An ally is using Helping Hand. Both of us are Quashed, meaning we are forced to act last. Which modifier happens first, the Helping Hand, or Charge?

Also, speaking of raw Speed, while I know volatiles like Tailwind and stat changes are ignored, what about Transform? Does raw speed use the pre-Transform speed value?

And while I'm making a post anyway, someone might find this knowledge useful: Scarlet/Violet does not account for Mimic when considering new move learns, meaning you can end up with 2 copies of the same move by Mimicking a move that you later learn by a level up. I suspect that this glitch might exist in every single generation. I don't know if this info is of any use in a competitive environment when Pokémon cannot learn new moves by level up, although I suspect Sketch causes similar move duplication troubles. Note that in order to avoid any bugs on the official game side, Sketch needs to consider *both* your current moves, and the moves within your party summary screen:

* If Sketch only looks at your current moveset, you can learn duplicate Mimic (permanently)
* If Sketch only looks at the moveset within your summary screen, you can learn a duplicate move of anything that Mimic copies (until you switch out)
 
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Anubis said:
The Immortal asked me to confirm that hacking in a Ghost Type Silvally without RKS or a memory made it behave as a ghost-type, and it does -- which is apparently different from Gen 7. I also was asked if it's possible to start games with hacked forms like Darmanitan-Galar-Zen or Zacian-Crowned without the item. All of these appeared to revert to the original form in-game.
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In SwSh, Silvally-Ghost without RKS or a Memory would behave as a Ghost-type.
  1. Does Arceus behave the same way in SV?
  2. If the Pokémon has the ability (Multitype or RKS), but not the item (Plate or Memory), does its type reset back to Normal?
 
According to Bulbapedia, the Special Attack and Attack drops from Vessel of Ruin and Tablets of Ruin should be ignored by Mold Breaker and similar abilities, but this doesn't seem to be the case on Pokemon Showdown! from this replay. Is Bulbapedia wrong in this case or it's implemented incorrectly in PS?
 
Swas said:
According to Bulbapedia, the Special Attack and Attack drops from Vessel of Ruin and Tablets of Ruin should be ignored by Mold Breaker and similar abilities, but this doesn't seem to be the case on Pokemon Showdown! from this replay. Is Bulbapedia wrong in this case or it's implemented incorrectly in PS?
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Ruin Abilities are field effects and Mold Breaker does not directly ignore them. However, if a Pokémon with a Ruin Ability is dragged in by a Pokémon with Mold Breaker, the Ruin effect will not activate (the field effect will not start).
I submitted a fix for this, but it is pending review https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/pull/11371
 
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I forgot to ask earlier, but does this interaction work only with the ruin abilities? Other entry abilities like intimidate or drizzle will still activate if a mold breaker Pokemon uses whirlwind to force them in, right?
 
sumwun said:
I forgot to ask earlier, but does this interaction work only with the ruin abilities? Other entry abilities like intimidate or drizzle will still activate if a mold breaker Pokemon uses whirlwind to force them in, right?
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It works with all abilities that have the breakable flag and events that trigger when switching in. Those are:
  • Ruin abilities
  • Ice Face
  • Wind Rider
  • Aura abilities in Gens 6 and 7
  • Flower Gift
  • Pastel Veil
 
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