sure just pick a move to delete entirely from lefties
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Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter A Cake Wearing A Hat
- Start date
i can't tell if this is sarcastic but i genuinely believe getting rid of sneak would be an improvement for the average set
we'll do that then unless objections are brought up later, thanks for the suggestion
there was enough support in the team to have a council vote to get it banned, its just that the council minutes havent been updated to show it yet
have a similar set yet it's already super fast.
Booster Energy would increase Iron Leaves' attack, not speed.Hello there, just a quick suggestion:seems to be either CB or LO, but why not Booster Energy + SD? I feel like this mon has a shitty typing and may deserve having the extra speed boost. I'm pretty sure :iron boulders: have a similar set yet it's already super fast.
I kind of hesitate to even suggest this, given that I'm sure y'all have already spent an insane amount of time looking at Luvdisc's movepool trying to make this utter shitmon some kind of usable, and thus probably already dismissed this, but is Soak a viable option on Luvdisc to replace Whirlpool? As other people have mentioned, getting to 1 hp via substitute is very uncommon already, much less actually claiming a kill with Whirlpool afterwards. I think soak could allow it to survive some of those hits that would normally KO it on 20-30%, then endeavor, and I can think of many situations where an enemy on 20% that's also without STAB is better than an enemy on 1 hp. The hypothetical set would be substitute/endeavor/soak/surf.
We thought about this. We might try Flip Turn over Whirlpool sometimes if we decide it's worthwhile, but otherwise we'll be sticking with Whirlpool for its broader/more consistent/less prediction reliant use case than Soak. Gave us a good brainstorming session though. Thanks!
Life Orb + Thick Fat Mamoswine with Trailblaze feels quite underwhelming. Seems like it's a new thing, as I just had the set for the first time. I don't really know what trailblaze adds to the mon. Mamoswine's not really strong enough for the +1 speed to net you much, and IMO it's a mon that doesn't tend to want to stay in and blast its way through multiple matchups. The grass coverage is pretty negligible as it barely even hits a 4x mon like Quagsire much harder than its STAB EQ.
I feel like Stone Edge would at least provide some additional coverage for bug types and flying+fire. Or just revert it to whatever sets you had before, as I felt like Mamoswine was fine.
I feel like Stone Edge would at least provide some additional coverage for bug types and flying+fire. Or just revert it to whatever sets you had before, as I felt like Mamoswine was fine.
Thank you for your input! We'll take it into account alongside winrate statistics at the end of the month.
Edit: We are reverting the change.
Last edited:
Hello, I'm here to request/suggest a handful of changes to Kanto Weezing.
Weezing
Level: 88 Bulky Attacker
Tera Type: Steel
Moves: Fire Blast, Gunk Shot, Pain Split, Sludge Bomb, Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Levitate
Above is the current weezing set, it is in practice a weaker form of Galarian-Weezing's current set:
Galarian-Weezing
Level: 86 Bulky Support
Tera Type: Steel
Moves: Defog, Fire Blast, Gunk Shot, Pain Split, Strange Steam, Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Levitate
The lack of access to Defog makes Fire Blast and Gunk Shot unreliable, and best case scenario Weezing ends up with Sludge Bomb, Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic Spikes. I'd argue that there are many other better TS setters out there so perhaps Fire blast is better depending on the rest of your team. Even in such case it often feels unwieldy & what's left is essentially a pokemon that is sacked after performing some Split/Wisp antics.
I'm here to suggest the following set instead: (or some variation thereof)
Weezing
Level: 88 Bulky Attacker
Tera Type: Fire/Dark
Moves: Flamethrower, Pain Split, Sludge Bomb, Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
I will go from bottom to top in my explanation.
1. Ability.
a. Through its mono-poison typing Kanto Weezing has 2 weaknesses, same as Galarian-Weezing does with levitate. I do not feel the removal of ground weakness makes up for what is lost by not picking Neutralizing Gas. Additionally, the contact with the ground may open Weezing to damage from spikes, but it also allows for the removal of toxic spikes on the player's side of the field.
b. The role of a bulky attacker in my eyes is not just to deal damage slowly, but to shut down/mitigate options from the opponent. This shutdown then incentivizes said opponent to switch mons which allows the bulky attacker to deal solid damage on switch. I will use my favorite pokemon, Arcanine, as an example of this point. On switch in, Intimidate lowers the opponent's Atk stat by 1 stage, from there Arcanine pressures a potential flare blitz, will-o-wisp, or extreme speed. This allows Arcanine the option to recover any damage taken from the switch via morning sun. The point here is the opponent's options are reduced whilst the player's options are increased.
Neutralizing Gas is one of the most powerful abilities in perfoming this task. In the same way that a haze, recover, scald toxapex shuts down several very specific enemy pokemon sets, Neutralizing Gas shuts down a plethora of invaluable abilities. Contrary mons are punished, Guts mons are evicerated, Natural cure mons don't recover. Weather mons (both setting and speed boosting) are shut down, and status resistant mons (gholdengo, komala) become statused. No guard mons become unreliable and Hustle & Huge power mons lose their attack boosts.
The only two reasons I see Neutralizing Gas being avoided previously are the idea that it is too gimmicky, which in this format specifically I don't think it is, or that it is too "unfun" in which case we should ban chansey and blissey entirely. If one's complaint on the otherhand is that it is too dependant upon the other player's team, then I would say that that is a fundamental component of the format even without the introduction of Neutralizing Gas.
2. Moves.
a. Increased accuracy equals increased chances of status procs. Sludge bomb's 30% chance to poison is quite noteworthy, and Flamethrower's increased 2.5% chance to burn over Fire Blast is impactful as well. (This is pokemon, 2.5% occurances happen all the time).
b. Sludge Bomb is the primary attacking option, and Flamethrower is for Steel/Bug/Ghost types. If a Steel or Ghost type is anticipated to switch in, then a confirmed chip hit on it is much better than a 15% chance to miss, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Our goal with this build is not to ko enemy pokemon with attacks, but to chip and wear them down for our team.
c. Wisp performs its usual anti-wallbreaker/physical-sweeper/band-user duties, and TS allows for a more passive damage whilst switching style. There may be a place to remove TS from the set or add Dark Pulse, but I personally feel a Dark Pulse set would be too one-note and wouldn't synergize with the rest of the build. (Mons should do 1 thing well, not several things poorly imo)
3. Tera
a. Tera Dark is the main one, gaining you an immunity to psychic, resistance to ghost, and removing the weakness to ground. Fighting and fairy types shouldn't be attacking you as a poison type, and bug types are weak to fire.
b. Briefly considered tera flying for the ground immunity, but as a physically bulky wisp user the weakness to ice and electric doesn't seem worth it. (earth power isn't that common)
c. Tera Fire is a toss up, would need some calcs/practice, intent is to raise the power of flamethrower, but remaning weak to ground may not be worth it.
This is my first post on smogon, so I apologize if I broke any rules or didn't follow appropriate form. I hope you'll strongly consider this suggestion.
Weezing
Level: 88 Bulky Attacker
Tera Type: Steel
Moves: Fire Blast, Gunk Shot, Pain Split, Sludge Bomb, Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Levitate
Above is the current weezing set, it is in practice a weaker form of Galarian-Weezing's current set:
Galarian-Weezing
Level: 86 Bulky Support
Tera Type: Steel
Moves: Defog, Fire Blast, Gunk Shot, Pain Split, Strange Steam, Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Levitate
The lack of access to Defog makes Fire Blast and Gunk Shot unreliable, and best case scenario Weezing ends up with Sludge Bomb, Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic Spikes. I'd argue that there are many other better TS setters out there so perhaps Fire blast is better depending on the rest of your team. Even in such case it often feels unwieldy & what's left is essentially a pokemon that is sacked after performing some Split/Wisp antics.
I'm here to suggest the following set instead: (or some variation thereof)
Weezing
Level: 88 Bulky Attacker
Tera Type: Fire/Dark
Moves: Flamethrower, Pain Split, Sludge Bomb, Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
I will go from bottom to top in my explanation.
1. Ability.
a. Through its mono-poison typing Kanto Weezing has 2 weaknesses, same as Galarian-Weezing does with levitate. I do not feel the removal of ground weakness makes up for what is lost by not picking Neutralizing Gas. Additionally, the contact with the ground may open Weezing to damage from spikes, but it also allows for the removal of toxic spikes on the player's side of the field.
b. The role of a bulky attacker in my eyes is not just to deal damage slowly, but to shut down/mitigate options from the opponent. This shutdown then incentivizes said opponent to switch mons which allows the bulky attacker to deal solid damage on switch. I will use my favorite pokemon, Arcanine, as an example of this point. On switch in, Intimidate lowers the opponent's Atk stat by 1 stage, from there Arcanine pressures a potential flare blitz, will-o-wisp, or extreme speed. This allows Arcanine the option to recover any damage taken from the switch via morning sun. The point here is the opponent's options are reduced whilst the player's options are increased.
Neutralizing Gas is one of the most powerful abilities in perfoming this task. In the same way that a haze, recover, scald toxapex shuts down several very specific enemy pokemon sets, Neutralizing Gas shuts down a plethora of invaluable abilities. Contrary mons are punished, Guts mons are evicerated, Natural cure mons don't recover. Weather mons (both setting and speed boosting) are shut down, and status resistant mons (gholdengo, komala) become statused. No guard mons become unreliable and Hustle & Huge power mons lose their attack boosts.
The only two reasons I see Neutralizing Gas being avoided previously are the idea that it is too gimmicky, which in this format specifically I don't think it is, or that it is too "unfun" in which case we should ban chansey and blissey entirely. If one's complaint on the otherhand is that it is too dependant upon the other player's team, then I would say that that is a fundamental component of the format even without the introduction of Neutralizing Gas.
2. Moves.
a. Increased accuracy equals increased chances of status procs. Sludge bomb's 30% chance to poison is quite noteworthy, and Flamethrower's increased 2.5% chance to burn over Fire Blast is impactful as well. (This is pokemon, 2.5% occurances happen all the time).
b. Sludge Bomb is the primary attacking option, and Flamethrower is for Steel/Bug/Ghost types. If a Steel or Ghost type is anticipated to switch in, then a confirmed chip hit on it is much better than a 15% chance to miss, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Our goal with this build is not to ko enemy pokemon with attacks, but to chip and wear them down for our team.
c. Wisp performs its usual anti-wallbreaker/physical-sweeper/band-user duties, and TS allows for a more passive damage whilst switching style. There may be a place to remove TS from the set or add Dark Pulse, but I personally feel a Dark Pulse set would be too one-note and wouldn't synergize with the rest of the build. (Mons should do 1 thing well, not several things poorly imo)
3. Tera
a. Tera Dark is the main one, gaining you an immunity to psychic, resistance to ghost, and removing the weakness to ground. Fighting and fairy types shouldn't be attacking you as a poison type, and bug types are weak to fire.
b. Briefly considered tera flying for the ground immunity, but as a physically bulky wisp user the weakness to ice and electric doesn't seem worth it. (earth power isn't that common)
c. Tera Fire is a toss up, would need some calcs/practice, intent is to raise the power of flamethrower, but remaning weak to ground may not be worth it.
This is my first post on smogon, so I apologize if I broke any rules or didn't follow appropriate form. I hope you'll strongly consider this suggestion.
Hi guys, can we please get a nerf on Garganacl? If it gets iron press or even just iron defence this mon is a huge matchup fish against physical attackers or teams without ghost types. I get that there will always be bad matchups, but even against a lot of special attackers it just feels so bulky especially with it abusing tera every game.
In general I feel like this things moves (stealth rock, salt cure, recover etc.) are good enough at getting consistent value that it doesn't need to be so obnoxiously bulky. The amount Garg sticks around and the hits it can tank really aren't consistent with the power of the moves it gets and the value it brings just by sitting around. Honestly feel like just a slight level decrease or something would do the job I like the mon, but I feel like its just slightly overtuned.
In general I feel like this things moves (stealth rock, salt cure, recover etc.) are good enough at getting consistent value that it doesn't need to be so obnoxiously bulky. The amount Garg sticks around and the hits it can tank really aren't consistent with the power of the moves it gets and the value it brings just by sitting around. Honestly feel like just a slight level decrease or something would do the job I like the mon, but I feel like its just slightly overtuned.
The team's discussed this, and we don't want to do any of these changes at this time. Levitate Poison is an extremely consistent defensive typing, and we value the power of Gunk Shot and Fire Blast.
We discussed this and we ended up wanting to try Flip Turn as an alternative to Whirlpool sometimes. It's not soak, but this change was still directly inspired by your post. Thanks!
I think Leavanny should have triple axel on both of it's sets, can replace knock or sd on the fast support set?
We've discussed this but ultimately we do value the existence of one set that's guaranteed both Knock Off and Lunge, for support purposes. Also, Taxel is less good without the dice to match.
Have you guys considered adding gale wings as an ability on Talonflame? I feel like it would be pretty useful on the sweeper set since flame body generally doesn't activate too much without roost anyway.