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M&M Mix and Mega

Been laddering a lot lately as I wait for my cancer treatment so here is an analysis of the meta and a list of effective abusers of each new stone in my experience.

(temp) ZA Stone Metagame Analysis:

The metagame as a whole hasn't changed drastically with the introduction of the ZA Stones in their current temporary ability form. Standouts are as predicted with the defensive immunity stones Chimechite, Heatranite, and Chandelurite which add another means to answer threats within the metagame. These stones are healthy additions that add layers to the metagame and teambuilding as a whole with Chimechite in particular opening up a lot of options for many different mons in its current state (I wish it remained with levitate). The only other immunity stone is Zaeraorite which sadly has an extreme skewed stat boost towards offenses with no defensive stats to speak of which heavily hurts the usability of the stone on stuff like Corviknight. One other immunity, Eeleektrossite gives levitate as well but has an offensive stat boost which benefits a variety of stuff.

Offensively there is Zygardite and Barbaracite with the latter acting as a sidegrade to Metagrossite that includes a type change. Zygardite is great for already fast mons and occasionally as a surprise factor on otherwise inoffensive mons.

Other stuffs include Glimmorite which has seen some usage but the inclusion of a poison type like Eternatus or Pecharunt on teams heavily inhibits the presence of Toxic Spikes but with time there is potential for it to see more. Scolipite also sees some use as a sidegrade to Sablenite with poison point punishing contact physical attackers and giving great stats for a more defensive orientated Pokemon.

I still think there is potential for stuff like Scraftinite but at the moment I haven't found it to work all that well at this point.

Edit: Nearly forgot Absolite Z, sadly the stone won't see a ton of usage due to a lack of ghost move coverage that isn't the crappy low BP shadow claw, best of the bunch is Basculin honestly, which is faster then basically everything but deo-s and eleki.

In the end, the metagame basically in a similar state to pre-ZA stone introduction, the kings of the metagame are still kings and old teams will work just as well in spite of the new stones. Instead you can view these new additions as just more options that don't overly sway the top tier choices.


Stone pairings I found effective:

Chimechite: Bellibolt, Pecharunt, Iron Moth, Milotic, (been meaning to try Palossand with Chimechite)

Heatranite / Chandelurite: Magearna, Corviknight, (basically any fire weak mon really)

Eelektrossite: Iron Moth, Raging Bolt

Zygardite: Dragapult, Deoxys-speed, Electrode-Hisui, (random mons)

Barbaracite: Iron Boulder, Barraskewda, Chien-Pao, (any mon with good fighting stab but are not fighting types that benefits from the stone)

Glimmorite: Great Tusk

Scolipite: Corviknight, Great Tusk
 
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To celebrate getting an oncologist appointment relatively fast and hitting the following milestone here is the process I went through to create my 90 GXE team!

5dbe1d8a373934b45509c58207261b72.png


The Team:


The team is a balance team centre'd around the core of Ho-Oh for most special threats and Eternatus for physical threats, obviously there are gaps with these two alone so I supplemented some of the weaknesses through Altarianite Great Tusk, Lunala, Pinsirite Regieleki, and Scolipite Kingambit. It is a team that handles most of the threats in the metagame with good playing.


Individual Team Member Analysis Below:
Thanksgiving (Ho-Oh) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Future Sight
- Whirlwind

Bog standard max spdef Ho-Oh handles a wide range of threats, differences from usual sets is the choices of having no recovery and relying completely on Regenerator, and the usage of Future Sight. Firstly, the lack of recovery honestly rarely matters as in the worst case scenario vs a setup sweeper of the special sort you can just whirlwind them out.

Now the interesting thing about the set is running Future Sight in tandem with Whirlwind which allows it to setup delayed attacks that warp how the opponent should play in addition to Whirlwind which lets you phase threats but also fish for Future Sight targets when an opposing spdef wall comes in (or dark type).

Icky (Eternatus) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Meteor Beam
- Recover

Once again, bog standard, speed evs are for creeping stuff that is creeping Hearthflame Tusks. I used to run standard Dragon Pulse (Dynamax Cannon is inferior on defensive Eterns :P) over Meteor Beam but I found the lack of means of hitting things like Heatranite/Chandelurite Steels to be frustrating and Meteor Beam allows it to apply more pressure then simply being forced out every time.

Big Horns (Great Tusk) @ Altarianite
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Body Slam
- Smack Down
- Rapid Spin

Altarianite Great Tusk is in general just really cool, and completely and utterly walls Raging Bolt as well as many fighting types such as Barbaroachite (I don't wanna look up how to spell it) Iron Boulder. Smack Down is your counter to levitate and flying types allowing you to pressure them and force switches, honestly, should be ran on most tusks that aren't Hearthflame.

Pew Pew (Lunala) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Moongeist Beam
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

The newest addition, Calm Mind Lunala is fat, and handy to have in the back pocket to cover stuff that has broken past both Eternatus and/or Ho-Oh. A very threatening pokemon that faces few walls due to the inherent mixed nature as a result of psyshock meaning special walls fear it. Leftovers are used over Heavy Duty Boots just because it negates burn. Moongeist Beam ignoring abilities is especially handy versus multiscale, purifying salt, and opposing lunala. Speed evs are same as Eternatus, creeping creeps of Hearthflame.

BZZZZZZ (Regieleki) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Volt Switch
- Extreme Speed
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion

I use the second best Regieleki in Pinsirite which shouldn't be underestimated for it brings unique characteristics such as immunity to ground types and resistances to fighting. Honestly, only downsides over Altarianite is not hitting Dragonite super effectively, hitting opposing Regielekis for resistance, and finally stealth rock weakness. Hitting fires for neutral is also useful meaning Hearthflame Great Tusks aren't a great answer to it.

Short Stuff (Kingambit) @ Scolipite
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick

Kingambit is criminally underused and often threatens many stuff in the metagame and brings useful resistances on top of this. I choose to use scolipite one of the newer stones entirely because it grants MASSIVE stats on top of good attack, however, Latiosite is an extremely viable alternative as is the two flash fire stones. Don't bother with speed investment with Kingambit, it is waste of its combination of good bulk and attack, emphasize those elements over trying to speed creep stuff.

I use no setup as I find I rarely have the opportunity to setup and abuse it and rather use Defiant to get boosts off of stuff like Pecharunt and Intimidate Pokemon / Mega stones.

The team plays predictably, abuse openings, play safe and smart.


zastra QT are allowed to use this as a sample, I got 90 GXE so I am taking a break until stones are either given actual abilities or I desire MnM laddering again.
 
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TIERING SURVEY

After 2 weeks of MnMPL gaming, Mix and Mega is now running a tiering survey to gather community feedback on the current metagame. With the introduction of new stones, the meta has seen different opinions on what--if anything--needs tiering action, so this is your chance to help shape the tiering direction moving forward. We will keep it open for about a week, so please respond ASAP! Shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes, would appreciate any responses. I'll be tagging a few players below as well (anybody can respond though!).

 
SURVEY RESULTS

No responses for a while so im releasing them a little early. 28 responses this time, 13 qualified.

Enjoyment
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy playing the current metagame? . Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 7.43/10
  • Qualified: 7.615/10
It seems our playerbase finds the current metagame fairly enjoyable, though there's still room for improvement.

Competitiveness and Balance
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame? . Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 6.57/10
  • Qualified: 6.77/10
Competitiveness and balance scores are not bad, but they definitely need improvement.

1770354345693.png

Zygardite
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Zygardite in the current tier?. Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 3.64/5
  • Qualified: 3.77/5
The playerbase has shown significant support for tiering action on Zygardite, with 17 people being on the 4 & 5 classes. The numbers are alarming.

:dragapult:
Dragapult
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Dragapult in the current tier?. Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 3.25/5
  • Qualified: 3.46/5
The respondents, especially the qualified ones, have shown significant support for action on Dragapult as well, which is the prime Zygardite abuser.

:Raging Bolt:
Raging Bolt
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Raging Bolt in the current tier?. Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 2.96/5
  • Qualified: 2.7/5
The playerbase has shown decent support for tiering action against Raging Bolt, but it's not significant enough to warrant immediate attention. We'll keep an eye on Raging Bolt.

:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-S
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Deoxys-S in the current tier?. Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 2.5/5
  • Qualified: 2.38/5
The playerbase has shown some support for tiering action against Deoxys-S, but it's not significant enough to warrant immediate attention.

:urshifu-rapid-strike:
Urshifu-R
Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Urshifu-Rapid in the current tier?. Number of responses: 28 responses.
  • General: 2.39/5
  • Qualified: 1.85/5
Most of the playerbase was against taking action on Urshifu-R, generally agreeing that it's healthy for the metagame.

:red orb:
Red Orb Retest
General Chart
Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Red Orb retest?. Number of responses: 28 responses.


Qualified Chart
Count of In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Red Orb retest_.png
Results are a bit all over the place, but most people wouldn't oppose a retest. Something to look at in the future.

Comments
  • Gholdengo - 4
  • Gengar
  • Regigigas
  • Zacian
  • Pidgeotite
  • Kyogre - 2
  • Ursaluna-BM
  • Last Respects
  • Lugia
  • Bikes
  • zastra
  • zastra's competence
  • add me on council
:gholdengo: Gholdengo received decent support last survey as well. Definitely something that could be revisited in the future.

To sum things up, these 2 elements are going to be the priority of the council:
  • Zygardite
    1770354345693.png
  • Dragapult :dragapult:
As a note, it's still not clear whether Zygardite is the issue or Dragapult is. Zygardite may have received the highest numbers, but Dragapult numbers are also fairly concerning. Majority of the respondents feel the other two main Zygardite users, Deoxys-S and Raging Bolt, are largely fine. Other users like Helectrode and Pecharunt weren't in this survey specifically, but they weren't brought up in comments. Stone bans are a delicate matter, so it's best to proceed with caution before hastily banning Zygardite. We've been engaging in internal discussion on how to proceed and would really appreciate it if people posted their thoughts, may it be here or OMCord. We're planning to do something this weekend, so now is the time to speak!
 
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Personally I dislike the zyg stone on a fundamental level, it is essentially a free choice specs that is splashable on rlly any fast mon, this gets turned up to 11 with the option to pivot. I think what makes the stone truly terrible to deal with from a building and playing perspective is that it has insane offensive synergy with the newly released immunity stones, which let one run pretty free hard counters to the most common revenge killers. This feels different from running things like psyterrain as the opportunity cost is much much lower, as vabs and flash fire cover a much wider range of mons and archetypes outside of espeed. Already great mons also benefit from the offensive synergy offensive synergy (ex. bolt, shifu/barra, dnite, harc, etc).

As of right now I think the bare minimum tiering action is to get rid of pult, the customization of 4th move slot + extremely free u-turns makes building extremely restricted in terms of the types of cores one can run for bulkier teams. Zyg mons will continue to reveal themselves, but might not be as ridiculous as pult currently is. I would hope that there is a qb on pult so the rest of mnmpl can be a bit more playable if the stone is such a delicate matter.
 
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Fundamentally I think the case for zygardite being as broken as claimed is very weak. We’re in MnMPL week 4 by now, and most Zygardite pokemon have terrible win rate and perhaps equally importantly a terrible performance in most games. A good Pokemon can have a poor winrate if the team it’s on is bad, but in that case you would expect it to heavily outperform its teammates; likewise a Pokemon can have unimpressive performance if heavily overprepped for, but one would typically expect this means the team still wins because there’s no room to prep for its teammates. The biggest exception to this situation is if it’s a playstyle dependant pokemon and the playstyles it eats alive get entirely forced out of the metagame, but I think even more so this has not materialized and it’d be something you want to specifically establish.

If none of these hold - if a pokemon has sufficient checks to not go the distance in most battles, and these checks are generally good enough or splashable enough or reliable enough that it is neither winning a lot of games or enabling its teammates to win games - that’s some serious limitations on how broken it can actually be. There’s no denying Zygardite is powerful, that Pokemon who use it can do serious damage, but it’s not actually a bad thing for a format for it to have frail breakers that can punish overly passive teams. On the contrary, if getting through a defensive core is so difficult even breakers can’t manage it with free turns and proper positioning, that’s in many ways the bigger problem, and I think it’s a good thing Mix and Mega doesn’t have it.

Now with that said, I do personally dislike Zygardite Dragapult. I don’t really respect uturn that much - it’s too difficult to get dragapult in safely in a good position for me to want to immediately have it switch itself out before accomplishing anything - but the spd drop on shadow ball is actually super obnoxious when it triggers and you suddenly have to decide between awkward lines instead of a safe one like you’d planned. Likewise I lowkey hate hydro pump as a move for how unreliable it is, both to use and play against, but there’s just no real replacement so you have to live with it. I don’t think I can justify voting to ban it on this, but I wouldn’t be very sorry to see it go.
 
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