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I've been meaning to post some thoughts of the metagame after I won XY cup a few months ago but wanted to wait til after DPL to sum up everything. It's been nice revisiting the format that got me into pokemon all those years ago, even though it's a completely different metagame from 2015 lmao. Although I mostly used the same teams from my run last year, there's been a couple changes in how I view the meta since then.
First, I think HO structures are the strongest teams right now. Gengar HO and Diancie / Talonflame / Bisharp teams have felt really good to use and eat up the balance squads that was everywhere last year. I joke about it a lot but real talk one of my biggest issues with these LTV balance teams is the damage output. A lot of their damage is tied to either Kangaskhan or super-effective hits. Another major drawback is the way they get that damage is oftentimes relying on bulky mons like Volcanion, Conkeldurr, Landorus-T, etc to switch in, tank a hit, and force the opponent's mons out. That becomes way more difficult to do when these HO teams shits out damage making even neutral hits a tough switch in. Zee talked about it a lot in their metagame post last DPL, but XY moreso than other doubles tiers is all about winning trades, and HO teams does so much damage that you're almost always trading favorably. HO mirrors can be a little volatile but imo they're very skillful with it oftentimes rewarding the player who understands who to save for endgame when you're trading KOs early on.
Quick thoughts on Thundurus, I pretty much agree with what eragon and zee talked about above. Every time I use it, what I found good about it isn't necessarily Prankster Thunder Wave (although that's still a really amazing part of its toolkit), but its speed and coverage. It's a fast and strong Electric-type in a tier with minimal Electric resists. And two of the commonly used Electric immunes gets dunked on by HP Ice anyways. You'll have those games where Thundurus clicks T wave and gets a billion full para's but like eragon said, it's just so high variance that I don't think that's a consistent way to win games. Plus I think you're diminishing Thund's value a lot if you turn it into a T wave bot. Good and annoying pokemon, but not banworthy.
Rapid VR noms: -> 2
3rd, arguably 2nd, best mega in the tier. It has intimidate for balance teams that want better damage output with Lando-I, excellent typing, blob of stats, strong spread move, nuke option in double edge, and matches up really well into the rest of the metagame. People that think mence isn't that good probably use flamethrower as its third move smh. Use roost and your whole world changes trust
-> 2
I use this for Intimidate and then clicks U-turn so I can switch in to an actually good pokemon. Real talk though, lando-t is such an important backbone for balance teams with how splashable it is and its by far the best pivot in the tier. It does that job really well but I find it lacking in everything else. I don't like using SR on it because a lot of its value comes from switch in -> intimidate -> u turn for positioning so I don't want it to stay on the field as much. Its damage output leaves a lot to be desired since you're investing in its bulk a lot for said pivoting. EQ is great but the rest of its coverage moves aren't the best.
-> 2
Maybe another hot take? It's strong and has good coverage. Sash is decent and scarf is a really good set that makes Landorus great at pinning stuff like mega diancie and gengar.
-> 3
Outruns Genesect and Landorus-T, excellent utility in Fake Out, SR, wisp, taunt, tailwind, nice access to snarl, etc. Great mon on balance teams that compresses a lot of roles into one, which allows for a ton of flexibility.
Tier 4 cleanse -> UR
Kinda neat if you get off a BD, 5v6 if you can't -> UR
On paper, CM doesn't sound bad but it's so much harder to get it set up nowadays -> UR
Gonna go as far as to say it should be unranked. We tested a couple p2 squads during DPL and honestly they haven't felt great. If you're not clicking Ice Beam into Landorus/Thund, it basically sits there and does nothing.
Shoutouts that qsns mega mence squad for carrying me for the past year and a half.
It's been a long run of Xy gaming from cup into ORAS Underground into DPL into the upcoming ORASPL and I have a lot to say on how the tier has developed. This will be a DPL post first and foremost so let's jump into the teams I loaded up for DPL
I've been using these 6 since the start of the year as I find it to be one of the most solid comps for mega diancie, which looked like a great bring into kylecole's old scout. Diancie is able to click into basically the entire format and has exceptional type synergy with amoonguss, sharing no weaknesses while also being an elite pokemon in its own right. Conk helps this team's thundurus matchup as theoretically max speed goggles flash thund farms the core here (I'll take fake sets for 300) and acts as a decent general switch for twave and the two choice guys provide great general coverage to bounce off the core with. I ended rebuilding this exact team on accident into single thunder with minor set changes so It's definitely been a fixation of mine into players with diancie-weak scouts. The team is a little weak to talonflame mega mence and scarf landorus-therian thanks to no intimidate but I think with future versions of the team it will be scrafty over conkeldurr since I've grown to really dislike that pokemon recently and the team would appreciate an intimidator. You may notice that i didn't list Choice band genesect as a weakness for this team and that is because the team is EVed such that genesect can literally never get a download boost against it (download doesn't include assault vest in it's calculation, just raw stat) which has made CBG significantly easier to play against and ended up being a major sticking point for me when building this season.
Ned is a very strong player who'd been hanging around in the Kitchen for a bit and I knew I wanted to bring something very strong into him while throwing off his lines with some unusual choices. Salamence sand was an archetype that's been heavily disrespected in XY Dou for a bit and I wanted to try a sturdier approach playing off the chip and really strong centerpieces that could wear the opposing team down in aegislash and ferrothorn. This team struggled a bit with landorus-therian earthquake so I opted to be wide-guard landorus instead of sub and centered my play around opening avenues for mence and landorus to clean games. The low pace of the team made kang and amoonguss very difficult to deal with when I was starting out with the original idea of building out roost mence with tyranitar and I ended up using ferrothorn as a solotuion to that problem, being able to eat spores and punish kang a bit while giving me a sandstorm immune chipperthat could be incredibly difficult for some teams to remove. I ended up losing the game due to some poor decision making on my end and losing my salamence early but the team felt pretty great overall and I like it a lot as a juxtapositon to more standard bulky teams by having another layer to winning trades than just good button clicking
Despite the loss I felt confident in my ability to load more unorthodox teams after the week versus ned. I knew qsns and eragon would be scouting hard so I decided to load something that was completely out of my scout: rain. Inspiration from SS led me to building AV genesect with Thunder, somethign that while fun, was in hindsight probably not the best bring. I ended up overloading a few slots like my swampert with this one and paid the price for not prepping/practicing harder in game when I played admittedly pretty poorly. One positive thing though is that the genesect itself felt very good in testing at taking trades, and the Life orb ice beam kingdra also felt particularly excellent and securing games, ideas to maybe revisit in the future.
After losing to arctic in Underground in a very funny get where we both disconnected simultaneously and I threw very bad, I was resolved to bring something very solid into Arctic's scout. The thing I noticed immediately in said scout was a ridiculous amount of thundurus usage, and a general overtendency towards LTV. Spoilers for later in this post but I find Tyranitar to be an excellent LTV punisher with ice beam to punish landorus, STAB rock moves to blow up thundurus and volcanion and Sand chip to scout goggles on thund/volc. It trades very well into that core and hard punishes a few other things in the metagame like deoxys and can seriosuly dent aegislash. To avoid just getting twaved shroom talon and diancie are here to absorb reasonably well and diancie lives a flash cannon in sand from thund. Talonflame and latios both provide ground immunities and punch through landorus forms and fighting types for the rock types, with both carryign a fire move to outspeed and OHKO CBG. Amoonguss and aegislash provide a fantastic backbone into kang/act as general switches with the entire team eating fire moves for them. This is one of the teams I'm most proud of in this tier and I think it's capable of doing serious damage into most players' scouts, even if it lost the game due to a combination of bad luck and bad tilt play on my part.
A long time ago when I was first starting the tier I notice how good Hydreigon's typing was into so much of the metagame; I marveled at how well it performed into LTV and how effective dark pulse was at putting Aegislash down. Then I saw it's speed stat: disgusting. Darkrai freed me of that horrible speed tier and gave access to ice beam, albeit at the cost of some of hydreigon's defensive merits. That was okay though, because Mega Salamence has almost the exact same defensive profile as Hydreigon but can click actual good moves with tempo wow! I've held onto this idea for awhile and Laptop's scout with high mew fake out balance usage seemed like the perfect target. With Darkrai being able to dispatch aegislash for Salamence, I opted to run full physical with stone edge for thundurus and paried it with scarf lando-t for funny earthquake spam and superpower to cover kang. To build on darkrai and have a kang switchin, amoonguss joined the team as a fairy/fighting resist, greatly appreciating darkrai's ability to dispatch Deoxys and landorus forms that threaten it with psychic damage and having funny synergy with Bad dreams + spore. Volc and aegi joined the team for ice resist/deoxys sitters and just being generally good. The week was already decided so laptops decided to load a funny but this team rocks.
With the team already in playoffs srvoltmike begged me to let him play XY, and I relented. Bagel/Voltix scout was filled to the brim with mega diancie and very little rain respect so we decided to commit to goth rain to put the punish on that. Goth rain is nowhere near as oppressive in XY as in bw, without perma weather and significantly more things to check ferrothorn, but swampert and talonflame provide some nice tools and let this team keep the pressure up. Mike didn't really like curse on ferro since ferro is a bit of a shitmon so we went with leech to give the team some more recovery and play around getting positional advantages more. This team tested quite well aside from thundurus which took some tinkering until finally the goat sir jelloton gave us his disgusting bulky specs thund spread that lives mega diancie diamond storm. This singular spread was a bit formative for me, as a couple months ago I played jello in a test game using this spread and lost because the thundurus is so physically invested my genesect got a special boost and couldn't use Extreme speed to close the game out. The realization that you can just disrespect CBG espeed with smart ev investment really opened my eyes for this tour and has shaped a number of building decisions seen here, so if you see wierd defensive EV spreads know that it's jello's fault.
0-2 against arctic had me in a rough spot in builder; both of my last two brings into him recently rolled favorable matchups but bad luck into tilt gameplay had netted me a lot of frustration. I wanted to load something that felt solid and stick to that while playing test games to get super comfy and keep my mental in check. Initially I played with a variant of big-six but after multiple teammates told me it looked bad I ended up building this team with eragon . Conkeldurr-rotom-landorus were insurance into Arctic's tendency to load paralysis spammers and mence just kind of ended up being my comfort mega this tour despite vibing with a lot of other megas way harder in underground and cup. Eragon suggested entei to spam burns into aegislash and between that double intim and rotom this team ended up being extremely good at shutting down any and all physical attackers. i ended up memorizing lines into deokang and mega diancie and found most matchups to be extremely playable, with lando-i being a minor pain point. However the more I tested this team the worse guts conkeldurr felt, simply not doing enough damage and sort of just being a generic late game guy that barely contributed to progress making so I ended up making it iron fist to get some more trading power out of it. In the end I played my lines versus arctic as safe as possible and ended up losing the game to a burn after opting to use my rotom's hp early versus the deokang instead of entei's, a frustrating way to end the tour but at least I finally played a game versus arctic where I wasn't furious with my own gameplay.
I didn't get the record I wanted out of DPL and ended up struggling with my own vibes a bit, for that I apologize to my team. LogIcesrvoltmike Thanks to you guys in particular for always being such a positive force in teamtours and keeping me in check a bit, I had a bit of a rough one between IRL and my tour results, sorry we couldn't bring it home. Chris32156TerekusaiKnull You guys did outstanding this year and I'm so glad I got to be your teammate and watch those games on your side. To the rest of my dpl teammates, it was a good run and I'm glad to be on a non-west team where nothing silly happens for once and everyone just had good vibes. On an XY note I feel really in-tune with the state of the XY metagame and know exactly where I can improve my gameplay and mental in the future, so everyone better watch out for my return next year, but for now let's delve into my VR
Note: this entire tier list is ordered, except megas. Megas are ordered with themselves
T1
No surprise on lando-t but yes surprise on Lando-I. I may be early on this but I agree with eragon 's post from last year where he said one of Lando-i and Lando-t belong on almost every team in the format (I'd say about 80%), and to me that makes them both T1 as I rate them equally. Landorus-therian is the avatar of item choices in this tier, being able to confidently run Av scarf band rocky helmet and goggles with no issues and check a large swath of the metagame, it's been tier 1 forever and that's really not changing even as lando-I continues to grow and eat some of its usage. Lando-I, on the other hand is more strictly scarf or Lorb (I have one team i ran goggles on it but for the life of me I can't find it :P) and represents a much larger trend of offensive teams growing in usage in the tier. LTV has been dismantled a lot recently as teams lean into more offensive pieces like lando-i mega-diancie hoopa-unbound and play to trade through raw damage output rather than through playing off bulk/type chart. Lando-i excels at this, being very difficult for lando-t to do anything to while being able to hit it hard, outspeeding kang and CBG and threatening 70% and 95% of their hp with earth power and OHKOing any non-av volcanion or rocks-chipped AV volcanion. Further Lando-i can break down defensive cornerstones like aegislash and amoonguss by taking updwards of 90% of their hp and allowing any partner to clean up. Landorus's solid bulk also make sure anything that isn't supereffective or blatantly stupid like mence DEdge isn't OHKoing it. Lando-i is a defining pokemon in this trend to dismantle balance teams reliant on slower trades with brute force and easily the biggest contributor to recent metagame shifts in my eyes aside from maybe Mega-Diancie. Lando-t is still slightly stronger in my eyes but it has to sacrifice something with all of its sets and earthquake is of course a harder move to use than earth power, and it really doesn't appreciate how annoying wide guard makes aegislash's matchup for it compared to lando-I.
In a vacuum, AV Volcanion probably the best pokemon in the metagame. However as the metagame gets more offensive, the mian things volcanion can prey upon have become less prevalent, and stuff that can trade 80% of its hp in a single turn like lando-i, mega-salamence or mega-diancie. Furthermore certain pokemon like mega-salamence blastoise keldeo and washtom that can sit on volcanion and gradually remove it are quite solid and can make positioning volcanion a challenge. That said fire is a critical type to have in this metagame and volcanion is still indisputably the best, but it's indomitable position as a threat you can slap onto anything has definitely been challenged in my eyes as teams become more and more resilient to it.
Maybe personal bias but this is easily amoonguss' best DOU gen bar what a sleep clause-less BW would look like. Spore is extremely pressuring in builder and forces you to respect it, severely punishing any team that doesn't sacrifice at least one item slot to the shroom gods, but amoonguss is incredible even beyond this. Redirection for megas like gardevoir Diancie and DD mence is extremely powerful, being able to freely run a rocky helmet with so much HP to screw over kangaskhan is a miracle and having STAB grass moves for rain matchups is an extremely rare tool in this metagame. Foul play to ruin aegislash is a funny innovation as well but amoonguss' base kit is just so incredible into so many of the top threats in the tier that it almost makes me want to rank it tier 1
As good as thund is, it can't quite do everything. This pokemon to me has always felt like it wants another 252 evs and 2 move slots and it constantly has to make a sacrifice into some matchup for whatever team its on. Flash cannon that ouspeeds mega diancie is great but can you really afford to outspeed it and still try to do utility things? Utility TWave is stupid as all hell but can get absolutely mauled by Mega diancie CBG conk and makes stealth rocks a bit annoying to position around. Defiant is cool but it can't actually hit landorus very effectively and is very fragile.
I definitely don't like using this pokemon very often and part of that is just hatred but another part is that sometimes it feels like I can find better ways to solve my builder problems than just slapping on twave bot that clicks hp ice for 30 into av landorus. Still a very good pokemon and thunder wave remains a piece of the metagame I wish I could play without, but not the end-all of XY.
Want an offense team? Here slap the bird that does 80 to everything on and play off rocks chip! In my opinion priority is extremely valuable in Xy right now for consistency into so many varied scarfers and fast threats like mence deoxys and swift swimmers. Talonflame is extremely splashable and really enjoys playing the game at a faster pace into or with lando-i structures as a non-volcanion fire type. With lando-i in particular, teams are less concerned about aegislash and genesect so having a much more offensive fire that doesn't focus on checking those two is a lot easier to justify. Conversely, talon really enjoys playing into landorus, havign a very strong chance to OHKO it after rocks chip and coming in on hp ice and earth power very freely. Slotting this pokemon on offensive teams right now feels very free to me, and it's still stellar as ever on older structure like rain that always had it.
One of the most destructive pokemon in the metagame, and it hasn't tapped into the limit of its potential. Life orb ice beam off deoxys-speed effectively murders all landorus forms and items with almost no gameplay cost and it causes some very degenerate gameplay in my eyes. As the metagame gets more offensive it has become clear to me that deoxys-speed can do whatever it wants while it's on the field, freely setting rocks, blowing up targets with psycho boost and diving into a bottomless pool of coverage moves. Playing against this pokemon feels like scouting a draft team sometimes, I can never be sure if that last attack is energy ball flash cannon hp fire or even if it's decided to dip into some wierd shit like dropping rocks or running superpower. I realize this may not be a common experience in the tier as it's only really run with kang with minimal exploration done elsewhere but i do not look forward to the possibility of it being used with other megas and as it stands is the primary thing that makes a lot of kang teams seem strong at all to me. Playing around coverage that OHKOes half the format's most important backbone pieces at a speed tier that no reasonable scarfer can contest, doesn't get choice locked, lives most priority with relative comfort and has a fantastic click to punish passive play is just too good for me to rate lower than tier 2.
I think these three are all extremely close in viability right now and they all share in having a manageable volcanion matchup. if you went based off my usage stats you could easily argue that I think Mence is number 1 and diancie number 2 but truthfully I use those two more as targetted but safe counters to scouts and believe kang is still the most well-rounded mega. That said I don't think kang is significantly stronger than the other two (or even mega gengar, which barely didn't cut tier 2 for me) and it on its own doesn't cause me too much stress in builder these days (in part due to the next two guys on this vr).
Do not fall for Grandmas Cookin 's propaganda anymore, this pokemon is very good. Fake out is obviously an incredible tool to have and intimidate off of lando-t give scrafty a permanent niche, though how it capitalized on said niche wasn't clear to me until recently. This pokemon is a perfect partner for landorus-incarnate. Lando-I is able to capitalize on the space scrafty makes in game and greatly appreciates having a low-cost intimidate partner that is particularly good at dealing with one of its biggest predators, deoxys-speed.
252+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 296-350 (97.3 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
A good enough roll for me, and most deoxys can't afford to run that much HP, lest they miss ice beam calcs on lando-t or speed benchmarks on certain scarfers/pert. Scrafty has an open item slot and an open 4th move slot with ice punch dragon tail protect quick guard and super fang all as options, but drain punch/hi jump kick into kang and knock off into deoxys/aegislash and for item removal is incredible compression in this format. being solid into both components of deokang is fantastic on its own but scrafty's ability to remove items in a format where so many pokemon are reliant upon them is too good for me to ignore A team from Oras underground that has felt quite good built around lando-scraft
A good typing and good enough moves with a solid speed tier and good bulk, keldeo is a great and consistent Kang check when I need one. Being able to outspeed lando-i and kang and OHKO them is great, quick guard is a useful tool in a format littered with priority moves, secret sword does good damage into most of the format and notable lets keldeo outtrade AV volcanion, which cannot hit it and suffers a softer physical defense stat, keldeo is a good compression filler mon on a some of my pastes. Taunt for amoonguss/diancie and icy wind have also been useful clicks in the right situation, I think keldeo is a solid respectable guy with useful good matchups off its typing. Use scald if you hate hydro pump it still kills lando-i with lorb.
I mentioned it in my teampost, I think this pokemon is excellent into LTV and a great way to punish players who neglect the rock type in their scouts. Able to punish the most common rock resist in the tier and set rocks with ease, Tyranitar has become a small fixture of mine in Underground/DPL, being another great punish to deo-kang and having tools into most things int he metagame. Please run ice beam to hit landorus-therian i promise its fine. The scrafty-gengar team linked above under srafty has the following tyranitar set to beat deo-kang:
Tyranitar @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 124 Def / 108 SpD
Brave Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
That team felt pretty consistent and tyranitar did a great job on it dispelling one of Gengar's worst matchups, and I think leveraging ttar's access to ice beam to steady the landorus matchup lets it be a very consistent piece on a lot of teams. The Ttar mega-diancie team linked in the dpl dump has scarf mixtar, which I also think is good and gets the jump on a lot of pokemon in the metagame. I think the tier's Fighting types are very easy to cover for and the upsides of tyranitar into much of the metagame are understated by a lot of the playerbase. Just a greatly underexplored pokemon.
Had a pretty successful DPL all things considered. Heatran has benefitted from the slight fall-off of volcanion of late and distinguished itself as a fire type that doesn't implode upon ingesting stealth rocks. Singlethunder and Idyll have been exploring fast scarfed sets but I also like sub/utility heatran a bit on some teams, I used it twice in Oras Underground. In particular I think heatran pairs particularly well with genesect for both flash-fire induced reasons but also because genesect is excellent at finding openings for it to enter the field and trade well. Heatran's speed tier being above volc and bisharp is useful for cleaning with full offensive investment, getting over most midrange pokemon and letting it click buttons. - - - - - - - - - -
I think this second team in particular is one of the best teams I've built all year, incredibly fun to pilot and feels very distinct with the pieces playing off each other so well. Double dragon double steel is insanely fun and scrafty/lando-i formed a great 2-mon stabilization core to end it off.
Idyll water types that sit on volcanion and whittle it away while clicking useful buttons, also applies to rain. Blastoise has been a standout annoyance lately, subverting stealth rock metagaming and showcasing the unholy power of follow me as it gets 3hkoed by lando-i earth power. Rotom typing is cool and useful and good and I probably ranked it too high but I don't feel like editting the screenshot again because half the mons got deleted when i refreshed the page. Rotom does sit forever on some teams though and is one of the best pokemon at switching in on just about anything and bringing in a new guy safely.
There is a large gap between these guys and gar is definitely closer to t2 than any other pokemon in t3. Gengar and Garde have both recently been explored with more optimized comps and proven themselves to be solid parts of the metagame, and I expect gengar in particular to benefit from the recent upturn in offensive stuffs. I know others don't feel the same but i personally don't think I would build rain without pert, the ground STAB into volcanion and rock resist for the fliers rain likes feel too important to me.
The more I try to use this thing the more I dislike it right now. Conk has to invest all of its evs into bulk just to take good trades and the only reward is maybe doing enough with drain punch over time to be annoying. I find keldeo and scrafty to provide much more actively beneficial utility to my teams and provide actual switchins off resistances rather than taking 230 from every stray hit and doing nothing back because it has to click pathetically weak damaging moves with no evs invested. I much prefer volcanion as a generic bulky fat guy to throw on teams and other fighting types to to fighting type things since conk doesn't actually beat deokang if they double up like scrafty does and it feels like it just takes too much switching around stuff and baiting lando-t entries with drain punch. Mach punch is useful and iron fist/guts are cool and its definitely not unviable but I just prefer my pokemon to be a little sharper and actively dislike using conk.
Sort of fishy, but unique for its innate ability to switch in on both spore and kang hits for decent return. Not too great outside of that though and definitely not a guy I'd go out of my way to look at.
What if Hydreigon had ice beam and a real speed stat? Basically this guy, has felt really good with tyranitar as a matchup patch, taking down Landorus fightings and hitting CBG with fast hp fire. Used it on just enough good teams to make my list here, similar to darkrai which I discussed in the dpl teamdump.
Fake out disruption has become more useful lately and these guys are all ok at this. Hitmontop also bundles in rapid spin for a few niche archetypes like zard sun. Raichu is really annoying with nuzzle and saw some especially annoying use with Gengar recently.
Stupid matchup fish, not consistent at all and incredibly easy to account for.
Speed good, coverage good, both abilities good. This is a fine and honest pokemon to run when you want and it can definitely win.
I wanted to make a more in depth post after my XY cup run but I had a trip the literal next day. And then I wanted to record a video on my XY cup run after that one, but I was having PC trouble, and by the time I fixed that I had another trip to go on. But now that DPL's over I think I can finally talk a bit more about the tier.
VR Noms
rises: 2 -> 1
I'm sorry for ever disrespecting your game. I think Thundurus holds a lot together. It's got the best Salamence matchup in the tier, chunks the Landos, can snipe Diancie with Flash Cannon, and Twaves all the cheese (and everything else if you have no honor...). It's just really hard to find no value out of Thundurus in a well played game.
3 -> 2
Aegislash has completely warped how I build teams, because if you can't kill that guy, you're gonna learn the hard way. Forget Ferrothorn or Jellicent, this is a wall mon that's actually good. It just sits on so much of the tier and can be customized with Sub/Wide Guard/Sneak to fit whatever pace or support your team needs. I will give turboslash a shoutout too.
4 -> 3
Probably no reason to sound the alarm yet but I think for a while I thought Gothitelle was borderline unviable in this tier until recently where I've really pushed myself to build with it and my opinion has 180'd. So good at forcing perfect pins and has some decent field presence of its own with Helping Hand support and whatever 4th move out of many you opt into.
drops:
1 -> 2
Volcanion is the goat at winning trades but unfortunately the metagame has gotten way more hostile towards it, and it's no longer just being traded with, but instead doubled into and removed before it can take an action. It's still such a strong and oftentimes necessary offensive and defensive tool, but I think its era of being the best mon in the tier has passed.
1 -> 2
Once people adapted to Kang Deo-S I think this was only a matter of time. Yeah it's still Kangaskhan, but she's gotta contend with several faster megas, Aegislash, helmets, Conkeldurr, etc. Super good mon but right now it just feels tier 2 good and not tier 1 good to me.
3 -> 4
this thing sucks
Also gonna drop two rain squads I built for Arctic during DPL, I think they're both super solid so try em out.
(Arctic edit: this team is busted and you should use it)
Gonna be redoing the resources soon so get your VR noms and team dumps posted in the next few days if you haven't already
UR-> 4
gonna preface this by talking about Conkeldurr: this mon is KINDA shite now! Conkeldurr was thanos for a time, but with the present day meta having an influx of Aegislash, MDia, and whathaveyou, it's getting really hard to get value out of an attacker with strongest attack: Iron Fist Drain Punch. However, the bulky Fighting-type still does have an interesting place in the metagame, in particular for pwning Mega Kangaskhan. Hariyama is an interesting alternative as it's basically Conkeldurr, but it drops Mach (actually kind of important) for Fake Out, which has its uses in certain comps. Hariyama is basically an HO version of Conkeldurr that wants to take advantage of CC, Fake Out, and other funny tools like Feint / Bullet Punch for MDia to provide some useful board control. I really like Hariyama in certain MGar comps because giving MGar a Fake Out is Pretty Fire, tbh.
UR -> 4
Idyll Water-type #1. It's a Follow Me mon; those are never bad. It's a Rapid Spin mon. It sits on Volcanion. hell yeah
UR -> 4
Idyll Water-type #2. It's just a generally good body to send into random things. Max SpD can be really handy for Thundurus and Landorus-I. Pain Split lets it be max annoying; it's a Flying resist that can actually Never Die in certain situations. Sits on Volcanion!\
2 -> 3
This guy kinda sucks to use now lol. Metagame is too fast for Mr. Strongest Attack Iron Fist Drain Punch to be good. Runs into Amoong and is instantly finished. Dies to Talon, MDia is super annoying. It's good and would be upper T3 mon but this guy is no T2 mon.
3 -> 4
Tier 3 mons don't see only 4 uses in DPL lol. Bad into CBG, bad into SR, bad into MDia, kinda bad into Aegi. Biggest fraud of all time.
The VR vote has concluded. This vote was ran with myself, ned04817, Arcticblast, SingleThunder, laptops, SMB, and Idyll. Thank you all for your participation! These are the results:
Rises 2 -> 1 3 -> 2 3 -> 2 4 -> 3 UR -> 4 UR -> 4 UR -> 4
This is just zee's rain team two posts above, except I replaced Ludicolo with a Choice Scarf Hoopa-Unbound. I felt that Ludicolo was replaceable in this comp despite having a valuable Fake Out, and I thought having access to Hoopa-Unbound so I can hard pressure Aegislash and Mew was kinda cool. I also changed the Thundurus from Therian to Incarnate, because I felt that being able to outrun Mega Diancie was way more important, and even if I wanted to steal the team with Ludicolo retained, I'd still value the additional Speed more on Thundurus and keep this change.
A particular idea of mine that's seen a good amount of push this DPL is Choice Scarf Heatran, an attacker that I feel is really good thanks to its good natural bulk, resistances to Brave Bird and Extreme Speed, and the metagame's relative lack of Fire resists outside of Mega Salamence and Volcanion. In the first runs of this idea we've seen Heatran paired with Mega Charizard Y to specifically focus on the idea of just punching a hole through teams by finding ways to chip / isolate their Fire resists and razing what remains.
This team, however, pushes the idea to another extreme by employing... Ninetales?! As much as zee portrayed Zard Y as the star of the archetype in their XY guide, that team's thesis was very much about Heatran; this team gives the idea a different spin by pairing Heatran with a Mega that by itself can isolate Mega Salamence, Mega Diancie, and miscallaenous Water-types (Gastrodon). The so-called MemoGar (Eball + HP Ice) makes for a great partner; while MGar has been seeing less use, I remained as one of its steadfast believers, and I genuinely believe its best use right now is as a ballsy offensive piece specifically tailored to snipe key threats in the meta unlike more defensive versions in previous metas. Without Mega Charizard Y, Ninetales is instead on the team to facilitate the Heat Wave spam that we want out of Heatran.
Genesect is just a good Pokemon in general to pair with Mega Gengar, but it being a physical attacker also makes it a great Heatran partner for destroying non-Volcanion AV users like KB, Conk, and Hariyama. Picking off Thundurus is really nice too to deny TWave. Ninetales has Specs for the damage, and it's 3x Fire-type attacks with STalk so I can send it into Amoonguss; because of how bad its Special Attack is, Ninetales is never supposed to be using non-Fire-type attacks anyway. Rotom-W and Landorus-T are pivots that can break Volcanion and position around with MGar, pretty much; both are also faster than Bisharp, with Landorus-T being faster than one point specifically so I can EQ next to Rotom-W before Volt Switch. Having Up is pretty nice for a lot of my guys, too. This team is kinda bad into Bisharp and I brought it despite this fact as a matter of ego; if you're thinking of using this team, then beware.
This is a team that I made specifically because I noticed my first and second team had zero overlapping Pokemon lol. Granted, I did use rain, but even still, I also ended up using a bunch of Pokemon that only I really use for the 2nd team, so I did still have a healthy amount of "usable" guys available to me, the most notable being Volcanion. However, despite this fact, I ended up using some Idyll-coded guys in AV Azu and CB Arcanine.
In truth, this team is pretty poopoo, made in a way that caters to how I play the game and what I feel would be good into Schister. It also helps that this is the first and hopefully only instance of the team being used; the information element really does matter in a Bo1. Considering all that, do not use this in any other game, as it's essentially a team built for my style against a specific opponent that also takes advantage of Fog of War; with opponents now having advanced UAV on this team, its flaws become easily punishable.
The one actual learning point you can take from this team is the AV Kyurem-B usage. Behind the scenes, AV KB was showing up a bit at the time in pools stage, thanks to just generally being a hard to kill guy. This KB set has felt like a generally good lead paired with something good into stuff like CBG, because it trades favorably into most comps. This KB set in particular outruns +nature 70s and OHKOes Bisharp with EP, and it also runs Draco Meteor so I can piss off Schister in the event of a mirror.
Another maybe actual learning point is that Choice Scarf Landorus-I is faster than Adamant Mega Swampert in the rain, so you can hit it with a GK. Fun little piece of trivia.
As for the weird sets / feature mons: AV Azu is essentially just AV Conk (real), but make it a Water-type and a bit stronger in exchange for losing Drain Punch recovery. The haters will keep hating, but for now we can always just say Schister lost to AV Azu in XY. CB Arcanine is honestly some nonsense, but I do have good experience with it in BW; theoretically it's a strong attacker that's good into CBG and takes advantage of lacking Fire resists (and also has ESpeed lol), but it's still relatively ass all around. Spooky Plate Aegislash is a lmao set; I wanted Aegislash's defensive profile but also wanted it to have offensive presence. I am Shadow Sneak Aegi's biggest hater, but I ran it on this team because, well, it fits, but also because Schister might discount the possibility specifically because it's me. Do not do what I did on this dumbass Aegislash spread lol, there is no one in this world running 8 Speed EVs 31 IVs Quiet Aegislash, but I made this in a rush so I didn't think much of it.
shoutouts to one player who egod me in a test game by bringing a 2015 team into telling me to delete my team; if you're gonna do this, maybe try not to end up 0-3 in pools stage into getting subbed out lmfao pce
Figured I'd take a few minutes drop my oldgens builder from the last year after winning classic and finishing 2nd in oldgens invites and I'm starting with xy, expect sm and ss posts (hopefully) within the next week, and maybe I'll post adv and dpp after derby if I build those tiers some more for that. I had a very up and down 2025 in XY, where I pretty much ran just about anything you could think of at some point. I built some concepts early in the year for DPL but ended up SVing for that so a lot of what I built never really got the chance to be used (although qsns and I did throw a bunch of stuff in the builder in the first half of that tour). I then proceeded to have a pretty unfortunate ORASPL, where I was a) not very motivated b) did not play or build very well c)got haxed a bunch (mons). Following that, I decided on a whim I wanted to play more XY/SM, which led me to in as sub for classic and then go on to win that tour mostly off the back of XY and SM (somehow I avoided playing SS like almost every round somehow?). But yea all of the above and more will be included below, followed by a VR and then maybe some general metagame thoughts. If you just want some teams, here's my full builder (no quality filtering tho.)
Ordered somewhat chronologically but grouped by archetype:
Salamence Balance
Early last year I spent some time trying to build some better Diancie teams in this format, mostly with a structure similar to what I'd used in Natdex before (Mence/Lando/Diancie/Fire type). These were both fine albeit kind of mid, but may have potentially served as a framework for the Mence sample (I don't really remember but my name is credited there fsr so it might've been a fork of this). However, Diancie was kind of a bust, as evidenced by the fact that the one mon difference with the sample is the fact that the sample dropped it for aegislash, a mon with similar defensive properties but one that is much better into Kang. The structure here is solid but I think semiroom in general can be difficult to figure out in this format, games tend to flow pretty quick so it's hard to get value from both slower mons and faster mons in the same game. Last team is essentially the same as the sample, but has Zen Headbutt Genesect (?) and turbo Aegi instead of the more normal sets on the sample.
Similar idea, but replacing Diancie as the Fairy type with Sylveon. Top team looks a little bit better but Aerodactyl is a funny pokemon, I learned it had Fire Fang so it had to make its way onto at least one team. Somewhat interesting pairing for Sylveon thanks to Sky drop. Bottom team I built at some point in Classic and I was a big fan of it, it won a game against VOAT in like winner's finals or something. Triple substitute is a bit troll but I was just really feeling that move that week.
Alternate Trick Room build with Cress and funny Weavile, whose speed tier is pretty funny in this format. Schister was using Weavile long before I was but it just was the right fit with this team.
Shoutout to broken Virizion. Did a deep dive into some of the old VGC 2015 teams and was really intrigued by some of the teams from like 2015 Australian Nationals so that's where this one came from. Virizion is kind of just? the perfect mon for this archetype, hitting Kang super hard + grass type + stone edge is pretty nice.
Fun cheese with contrary skill swap Spinda + Victini, who just so happensto have the perfect moveset for cheesing with Contrary.
Sejun team with some more broken Pokemon. Gyarados has an excellent Volcanion matchup and can click Waterfull with impunity thanks to Mold Breaker, so it's a pretty interesting mon. Supporting it is kind of hard so I ended up with Pachirisu anyways. Maybe it could be Amoonguss or Raichu or something but I had to commit to the bit a little.
Sunny Day Klefki + Houndoom. Would be slightly more interesting if not for the Mega Evolution speed change mechanic
This team just looks aesthetic despite having very few other redeeming qualities. Click Diet Thousand Arrows (Lands Wrath) is extremely funny though.
This one almost doesn't seem fair to include down here, it had some solid wins in test games (including a memorable one in DPL against one of the Idyll sun teams) but it's Abomasnow. The main focal point was the scarf Blizzard Genesect, which gave the team a lot of flexibility, especially with Talonflame. Jellicent is another weird choice but the typing felt kind of required with this, and the toolkit is still half-decent.
Alternate TR team with P2 Camerupt. Probably not that bad tbh. Hariyama might need a different set but otherwise seems interesting, someone could definitely make something out of this.
Sun
You might look at the above 6 and think it's the strangest team you've ever seen. You might wonder why the Hitmontop isn't a Scrafty, why there's a Cresselia with no slow pokemon, and odds are you probably haven't seen a Heliolisk since Route 9 in Pokemon X on the 3ds in 2014. I actually consider this to be maybe the most important team I've ever built in this tier, and it directly influenced the way I thought about Charizard in both XY and SM ever since. I built this team really early last year, probably even before derby started and certainly long before DPL. I threw together a bunch of ideas I had with Charizard onto one team, which is something I tend to do if I don't want to go through the full process of optimizing everything individually. Usually this results in maybe one of the ideas actually hitting- what made this team unusual was that almost all of the ideas I put on here ending up having some merit. The most circumspect parts are definitely the Venusaur and the Heliolisk. Venusaur I don't really feel I need to justify that much, the typing is just kind of nice and sleep powder is cringe and uncompetitive, but always ends up a bit underused across gens 6-8. All sun teams should be considering running this pokemon, it's very helpful into the rain matchup with any support at all. Heliolisk is obviously a much more fringe choice, but the explosive power coupled with a solid speed tier give it a half decent niche with Yard. Yard really struggles to deal with Volcanion, so all Yard teams (imo) should be prioritizing removing AV Volc to give more space for heat wave. This is easier said than done. Even Sheer Force Landorus doesn't get the kill on AV Volc. You know what does though? (most of the time:)
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 204 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion in Sun: 344-408 (94.7 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
If this pokemon was just 3 points faster, it would genuinely be a must include on sun. Unfortunately, being slower than Diancie and Thund and all that does really suck, especially when we're talking about a pokemon with such low bulk. I still think it's a solid enough mon for the archetype, which is more of a testament to how difficult it can be to actually deal with Volcanion than it is to Heliolisk's strength as a Pokemon.
However, without a doubt the most important component of this team was the Cress. For me, CM Cress is almost what makes the archetype for me. The bulk Cresselia has in XY and SM is really just phenomenal, but obviously it's mostly passive and is vulnerable to both being worn down over time and not outputting enough pressure to actually be relevant. Thankfully, Zard serves as the perfect partner for it. The first, and most obvious, synergy between the two is Cress's moonlight. The ability to recover 75% of your health on a pokemon with 120/120/130 bulk is profoundly broken, especially when you're stacking Calm Minds. Psyshock when boosted is a great move in this format thanks to the variety of AV mons that you hit decently with it (especially for Volcanion), and Ice coverage is very nice just in general. Kang is still a nuisance, but compared to most other setup options in this tier Cress gets by pretty reasonably thanks to it's high HP stat letting it avoide the 2hko from Stoss. Besides weird anti-setup counterplay that is mostly hard to justify in the tier, the biggest counters to Cress are going to be the steels, predominantly Genesect, Aegislash, and Bisharp. Thankfully, Charizard greatly helps with that as well. Under the wrong conditions, Heatran or Bisharp can still be annoying but generally it's not that big of a deal, especially when combined with other options you should be including on these teams (such as Lando-T, a great partner who appreciates having two teammates it can actually click Earthquake next to). The last point I'd like to make on the excellent synergy is just the general dilemma opponents face when staring down a Charizard, who often poses an immediate threat, paired with a Cresselia, which can become extremely difficult to handle in many games if it gets a CM up for free.
That's mostly what I have to say about Cress. I strongly consider Zard/Cress to be a formidable archetype in this format, and one that brings out the best of both pokemon in ways that are mostly irreplicable without the other. It's also an excellent pairing in SM, for slightly different reasons that I'll talk about in that post. Emilio got me to consider Icy Wind on the set and ever since then I've been running that as the Ice stab, although Ice beam is fine as well. I used Cress/Zard to great effect last year, albeit in not the largest sample size but when I brought it it never disappointed. Here's some of the more refined teams:
This is the definitive version of the archetype for me, fitting Diancie and Heatran with it is really nice and it kind of just has all the pieces. This was the inspiration for the team Ned brought against zee in DWCOP semis, which we worked on together and serves as a plenty-viable alternative: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6doublesou-889325
This is a great replay at understanding the archetype, hax aside.
I would be remiss to avoid mentioning the other Sun teams that saw development this year, mostly courtesy of Idyll and Singlethunder, who spammed it in DPL with scarf Heatran. This version kind of combines the two variations and uses a blastoise to better support the Cress.
Rain
Rain is really one of the most dangerous archetypes in the tier, and many of my teams are quite weak to it. It saw a fair amount of development last year, with the Bisharp Rain team by zee being one of the most dominant teams in the tier in 2025. I used that team a fair amount myself, but also played around with some rain builds.
Top one is a Perish rain team with double shadow tag. A bit gimmicky but has plenty of tools, while the bottom one is a more offensive variation of Gengar rain. Probably could've optimized the bottom one but never really got around to it since it was fine enough as is, but never really had occassion to use it.
Two spiritually similar teams with Fighting Mega + Defiant + Rain + Amoonguss + Talonflame. Neither Medicham nor Lucario are particularly excellent, but Lucario definitely could be worse since it has a nice speed tier, follow me, and whacks Mega Diancie and Kangaskhan. Medicham hits Amoonguss and Thund better which is nice, both of these are bringable I think. Generally I think all the fast fighting Megas are all kind of fine and usable if you really put your mind to it, rain is a nice synergy for these two in particular.
PUP Kang Rain. I'm looking at this in the builder and wondering why I never brought it. This just looks broken LOL. Probably should make the Kang Stoss I suppose. Loosely modelled after the BW rain team that got Goth banned since the fundamentals of that team were just really excellent.
Fairy Megas
People are generally really high on these two (especially Diancie) while I'm really not (we'll get to that later), although they are undeniably solid mons. I'd just probably call them tier 3 and 4, while others would probably call them tier 2 and 3. Regardless, I think building them for me kind of tends to flow similarly so I'm including them together, even though they obviously play very differently.
These are all various shades of offensive with some interesting pokemon choices. I discovered Lapras at some point and it kind of just? 6-0s every rain team? A little bit more to it than just bringing your lapras obviously but it has such an excellent matchup into rain that I built a couple of teams with it. I also think Diancie loves Goth as a partner, since it lets you actually capitalize on your nice matchups as a Rock type attacker and pushes you over the edge on some calcs with Helping Hand (this makes Lapras an even more tempting partner thanks to TR and perish). Braviary is a hilarious Defiant mon that basically ohkos anything it hits (not joking) but happens to be kind of terrible at doing anything else. It does have tailwind though!
Gen 8-coded Whims offense team with Landorus and Mega Diancie. Decently solid team but Mienshao obviously could be replaced.
Full credits to Yoda for this one, as the top one is a mon-for-mon recreate of what she used to beat me in XY in classic (I'd been spamming the same zee Rain team and got pretty punished by this six). Not sure how accurate this is, but I threw together the recreate to cover for hugo bringing rain in XY in oldgens invites. I think it's a really interesting six but I'm assuming I have some of the sets wrong. I also thought the team looked interesting with Gardevoir instead so I made that a version as well. The speed of Diancie probably makes the original six a bit better I think but both are reasonable.
Sub kyurem team I built with schister (or he built? idr tbh). Not sure why the kyurem isn't Kyub but the six is pretty solid
TR Gardevoir team with Scarf Lando that I brought in ORASPL before getting kind of owned by rain against bagel. This might need a mon change or two and I might come back to this build at some point but I think the core of it is pretty nice.
Mega Manectric
Ned and I spent a fair amount of time trying to optimize this pokemon out of sheer boredom. It's a fun pokemon but unfortunately largely doesn't cut it, although the speed tier and role compression are enough to give it a reasonable niche. I think it has potential for a really solid pairing with Volcarona, an underused mon that is probably at least reasonably decent in this tier, but I didn't really test it too extensively.
Did you know Gastrodon learns string shot?
Probably the best Volcarona version I built, a lot of the stuff here fits together really nice. Life orb on Volcarona helps it get a few nice knock outs, like Lando I at +1. Calm Mind Lando is a backup win condition that can easily take over games as well.
A couple nice Gothitelle variations as well. I brought the Lax team against Dad1 in oldgens but it didn't really get to show off its full potential. I probably should've brought one of the versions with 5 viable pokemon + Manectric but it was funny so no regrets.
Mega Metagross +
This is a really interesting mon with some nice properties that is kind of just a victim of circumstance. There's some fun things you can do with it though and I think it's a rewarding pokemon to try building.
Goodstuffs team that aims to replicate the SM Metagross/Kyub teams that are generally pretty solid there. I had the thought to try to invest fully in Metagross' bulk, since the speed doesn't do it a whole bunch of favors without dynamic speed, and putting the responsibility onto the Talonflame to carry the speed game.
Fork of the above that I tried to make a bit better into Kang by putting Hammer Arm on Metagross and adding Keldeo. I think the Kyurem is probably better but this is probably pretty similar.
Metagross LTV. By this point I'd done some more research and found some VGC 15 teams with Sub metagross, which can somewhat dampen the lack of dynamic speed on the turn it mega evolves, saving you from an easy intimidate the following turn. Not the easiest to pull off in practice but I think it's pretty fine. The main problem with the set is being somewhat walled by steels, so that was kind of the focus of both teams. I found Incinerate Thund and I think it kind of completes the idea, helping to compensate for both Lando-T and Genesect at the same time by being able to run HP Ice and diet HP Fire at the same time. I think Metagross-Thund is definitely somewhat real but I kind of haven't fully figured it out- curious what others might be able to make of it. Both of these are probably fine, although I wish I had something better than Terrakion for the first team (maybe it's just the right mon though).
Telekinesis Sleep
This was an archetype that Ned and I found a few months back that probably needs to just be banned for being uncompetitive (it essentially violates the essence of Gravsleep but with different moves). Deoxys is already an excellent pairing with Kang, and it's very easy to slot Telekinesis on Deoxys and Sing on the Kang. Darkrai is kind of the poster child for the archetype, as it comes with the added benefit of owning Aegislash for the Kang/Deo S compositions.
Normal looking team that's only really given away by the Darkrai. This was the first one we made and maybe the most straightforward, generating free turns for the Kang and getting extra chip from Bad Dreams. Not completely consistent but gets value in most games, and if you can't get the gimmick off it functions like a normal Kang/Deo S team.
I've got a lot of other miscellaneous Kang teams that I'll just kind of post rapid fire here. Kang is a pretty straightforwardly broken mon that really prevents this tier from being a) More competitive b) More Fun c) Worth playing over SM. Seismic toss on this pokemon is pretty obviously not ok and really gatekeeps most of the format from being viable. I think almost no teams have actually good Kangaskhan matchups but the problem is kind of masked by people looking for any possible reason to use other megas or overdosing on Rocky Helmets. I'll start here with what I consider to be the most broken Kang teams I have and then post some of the whackier ones that are still decent, but only because Kang is broken.
Standard CHALK team but with Eruption Heatran. I do have PUP Kang on this but it could pretty easily be Seismic Toss, but PUP is nice with Amoonguss. I also put Nasty Plot on Thund as a surprise wincondition that starts outputting serious damage after a plot, especially into mons like Lando-T and Volcanion.
I was interested in Kang/Mew for similar reasons as to Deo-S, but Mew is particularly annoying since it can spam wisp and snarl to make the Kang live forever and click Wish. This team might be a bit overkill (could have a more normal Kang set) but it can probably be really oppressive into the right teams.
Degenerate Kang Beat Up Terrakion team, with some added spice of Bite Kang to cheese Paralyzed Aegislash and other weird targets. Also put disable on the Kang for fun, occassionally really nice for shutting down choiced mons.
My take on some of the Kang/Deo S stuff, with Wish Kang for some added annoyance for opponents. Wish is really strong if you can get it off in advance of taking damage, occassionally can win a game by itself. I've also considered Sub over Wish but Wish is funnier.
Giga Impact Kang has solid rolls to OHKO Volcanion. Also has Top Moth for fun.
Now for the fun PUP kang teams:
Kang + Magic Room Gardevoir to turn off rocky helmets
All in on PUP Kang with Double Redirection and Heal Pulse Latias. Entei is an interesting mon actually, sub with Pressure can do some funny things and Sacred Fire is a fun move. Having Stone Edge kind of saves its matchup into some things (like Volc).
Mega Kang + Suicune, another interesting mon that can't really function by itself but is fine as an alternate win condition next to PUP Kang (since you can often force people to focus down the Kang first.
Scarf Volcanion team with support Darkrai. Somewhat of a precursor to the sleep teams but here I'm just clicking blind Hypnosis, which you honestly can get away with since again Kang generates at least a free turn or two for the partner.
Cool Blaziken Bisharp team that I forgot to put earlier in the post so it's going here. Some cool ideas here, like I said earlier any of the fast Fightings are somewhat viable in the right context.
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VR:
Some of the more important thoughts:
Rain is broken. Swampert is a big part of it but Politoed Kingdra can be paired with basically any mega and get value, something I didn't really appreciate before seeing the Mence Rain team Zee built in DPL last year. Super splashable two mon core + also has the more dedicated rain teams.
Excellent Pokemon with plenty of good matchups, super preys upon Aegislash and generally gets enough value even despite lackluster bulk. I think the peak of the Bisharp stuff has maybe passed but it's still comfortable tier 2 for me, forming a particularly scary pairing with Kang/Deo S but being perfectly splashable on other archetypes.
Broken, clearly the best mega in the tier and it's not really close for me. Kang/Deo S kind of just runs the tier. Even if it's not necessarily the most spammed anymore every team's biggest test is whether it can actually beat the common Kang teams, and a frustratingly high amount of the time the answer is no.
The other broken mon, matches up really well into the tier especially right now since the tier has opened up a little, giving it more stuff to kind of prey upon. Can completely tech for most of its bad matchups, which it already doesn't have a whole lot of just off of its typing and ability. Twave is obviously so silly but what's really changed for me is its ability to be an offensive piece that matches up pretty well into a lot of the tier while also being able to click Twave. Flash Cannon/HP Ice/Sky Drop/Fire Move are all incredible options to add to already decent Tbolt, letting Thund get a large value of the unseen move factor in this tier. Flash cannon is the big one, making it an actual Mega Diancie check. Just an excellent mon that sits cleanly at the top of the tier for me. Side note: really like expert belt on this guy, picking up easier kills with flash cannon and HP Ice is pretty nice.
/
I was super close to dropping Lando T to tier two and leaving Lando-I by itself in tier 1 but Lando T is just hanging on to enough usage to stay up there. I do think Lando I is just a better pokemon, especially once people start investing in it's bulk. Lando T gets less value out of the typing offensively which is a big thing for me, but the support options are kind of limited in this tier so it scrapes enough value out of that to still be an incredible mon. People also need to try this cm Lando joint, it sounds like im crazy but it's actually broken trust...
Talked about this above enough but to me this an archetype that could be really dangerous in this tier going forward. Tier 3ish for me.
Gothitelle is sleeper broken, fits on plenty of teams and shouldn't be legal. Long term I just can't imagine this pokemon stays legal, it's particularly crazy with Genesect but can be used with anything and enhances how broken whatever is paired with it is. Tier 3 for now but should definitely be more optimized. Banning Shadow Tag would also take away Mega Gengar, which isn't particularly great in the format right now but is still pretty annoying to queue into and generally uncompetitive, so I'm completely fine with nuking shadow tag from this tier and think it's pretty much a no brainer.
Really not as high on this as everyone else is, I feel that it has to work a lot harder for it's good matchups than the mons above. Completely fine mega and win condition but requires really precise play that I think makes it tier 3 for me, as opposed to something like Kang that click Stoss with impunity, or something like Rain that can just click attacks every turn and generally be fine. Also losing to flash cannon thund and deo-s makes this pokemon really depressing and kind of volatile to load to me :(
Metagame stuff
Fun tier but 100% could be better. My mantra for the last year has been that it's really remarkable that the tier is even playable as is, there's like 3 or 4 completely broken things that would definitely be long banned if the format had been current gen in a more modern environment. As it stands the tier is fine but I have a hard time imagining myself coming back to it for a long while unless there's major change. If I could change anything about this tier, it'd be 3 things:
(0. Ban telekinesis or add it to sleep clause. Changes nothing, tier gets better)
1. Ban Thund. Cringe, uncompetitive, and quite strong even if you take away TWave. The way it can adept to its checks is pretty textbook broken to me and I think the tier is clearly better without it
2. Get rid of shadow tag. This should really just be the standard and I'm sure it'll happen some day, who knows if it will in my lifetime though
3. Probably ban Kang. Trades too well and seismic toss is comically broken. Tier becomes much more interesting to build and play without it imo
I'd be beyond happy if any of these happened but it is what is, tier is playable at the moment and plenty of people love it. I'd feel stronger about it if SM didn't exist as SM is everything I like about XY but better, without almost all of the problems I have with XY (except Goth being legal) which sounds harsh but isn't really anything against XY, SM is just that good, which I'll hopefully be writing about soon. Thanks for reading!
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Sun 
Mega Metagross 
Skymin Grass Whistle Version
Mega Sceptile Grass Whistle Version
