w9 reviews
M Dragon vs Kollin:
It was speculated by triangles that the last was Gengar for M Dragon. I think that's probably the best guess. There's no reason to have Spin on such an airbound team with grounded recovery under Sand (Volt Absorb, Leftovers on Tar), and the ability of Gengar to lure Blissey in and to trade with Claydol and/or Spin block, which really helps Flygon, Jolteon, and Zapdos out here. Alternatively, I could imagine a (Mix?) Metagross or a (Sub?, CM) Jirachi here, which additionally offer backbone and a means of pressuring or beating Blissey (teams) and a means of trading out opposing Metagross, since this team does not switch into Meteor Mash especially well -- and sells out by dropping Roar from Skarmory. It's not bad against Metagross with a well-supported Zapdos, but that is a soft point, particularly as Zapdos has to handle Swampert for this style of team -- if the last isn't a bulky Giga Drain Gengar. Anyway, I've been wondering what possibility there is for finding new life for Jolteon in the tier, and this team is certainly an interesting try. It feels like there's been a scourge of Dol and Bliss or Steel in recent years that have stifled Jolt. I'm not convinced that Tox+Tect Zapdos is enough for the wave of Aroma+TW Bliss (+Dol with Wish or Rest?) that Johnald has made his bread and butter in this strong run of his, but it should be good enough for near everything else. Ref Dol is out of favor, so the coverage is pretty good here. Plus, the Zap lead is well supported. My main points of concern are probably the lack of phasing and the softness against Swampert, though. While the Tar could almost comfortably be HP Grass, dropping Crunch (for Dol) is risky and dropping fire coverage for Meta/Skarm would also be concerning. Even with a Giga Drain Gengar, this team finds it hard to switch into offensive Swampert -- especially the Refresh 3 set that the Zoomers have been loving. It's not perfect, but it's still a good take with nice techs, and I think maybe M Dragon had a read on Kollin that lead him to bring this, and it definitely paid off.
Kollin brought the most standard AeroDug comp with a Mix Tar. I tend to think you want a bulkier Tar on these teams to switch into Zapdos (and thereby Jolteon or Raikou) better, since Zap can overtasked with handling opposing Zapdos. I don't think it would have made a huge difference in this game, to be honest, though, because Jolteon outsped Dugtrio and what likely was Adamant Aero. It probably had HP Grass for Swampert. And while it does have to avoid eating Gengar's Explosion or, less concerning, a Toxic from Zapdos, it does have a positive matchup against those two as well. With Flygon and Zapdos to duel Kollin's own Zap and to stifle Pert and Tar, it's just difficult to trade up into a favorable position against Jolt Spikes. If the last really was Gengar, then there was another special attacker to overload Zap+Tar and to chip Gar into range for Jolt to clean up. Not a bad build from Kollin, but this was the worst combination of factors that made the game difficult for him.
Blaise vs Johnald:
Blaise loaded the evil triple trap Milo Dol Rest Lax team -- but without Rest Talk Lax. It would have helped here, I think. Against Johnald's usual fare with Bold Cune, maybe this team would have struggled. It could be that Lax has Self-destruct last to solve this exact problem? Or maybe it could be recommended. In any case, it's been a while since we've seen Rest Lax or any of the other old cheese, and it's funny to see that it would take a throwback like Johnald to bring it out of his opponents.
Johnald brought a take on the new standard SkarmMag comp with Zap instead of Celebi. Zapdos is one of my favorite mons to pair with Magneton, so I love this team. The team cheats a bit against a well-supported Snorlax, as we saw in the game, relying on Leech Seed and Roar to keep Lax down. With three special checks, the team is pretty comfortable against non-CM special and mixed attackers. Each of the individual pieces become more expendible and therefore offensively potent for the inclusion of the others. As such, the Zapdos is quite offensive and runs a highly invested Modest Thunder, which helped it to break through. I think I prefer Zap phasing and using Rest regardless -- which should free Pert to run Curse or Toxic -- but with Wish, Aroma, and no need to depend on Zap defensively, Zap can be used selectively to maximize its offensive output. I think the Mence (and Aero) versions of this comp fare better against Snorlax, but this is a good team either way. You've got two of the three secondary walls that people usually forget about in Zap and Bold Celebi, which makes loading Cune against it a nightmare. It's also maybe the first high-level Bliss+Pert comp that we've seen since the Skarph 6. I think it's an awkward moment for the duo, since Dol, Star, and Gon tend to be desired with Bliss for the Spikes control elements, and it's generally easier to fit Starmie with Bliss+Pert than Claydol. I think there are a couple of decent Bliss+Star teams that could be used, but there is understandable skepticism towards Starmie in general. In any case, my complements to the chef for the smart cook.
triangles vs Fruhdazi:
Regirock CM Pass. Tyros gang would be proud. This team seems to play a fake game against Zapdos defensively. We're looking at a team where the only switch in to Zap is a Celebi that can't hit it. If the Starmie isn't using Recover, it is selling out against bulkier Spikes comps, too, aiming to Spin once or maybe twice in a game and focus on its offensive potential. If it is using Recover, you're choosing between STAB and Tbolt which should help against Suicune. I think we're looking at a Recoverless Starmie. Snorlax also looks to be a pain in the ass, since the Zard (probably?!) isn't Focus Punch, the Celebi has pillow hands, and the other special attackers look to be wet noodles to Lax with backup. This team should farm SkarmBliss with its eyes closed, between Beat Up Zard, Spin, CM(?) Jira, BP, and the grounded offensive heavy hitters, but I'm skeptical of this team against Milo with phasers or offense. That being said, this team looks really physically sturdy, and we didn't get to see the Jira set. It didn't reveal Protect, so I'm confident it's not a dedicated defensive set, but it's possible the theory is to distribute responsibilities for checking Zap and Cune with the Jira. It's an interesting comp, and I think it's a high-upside build, too, but I feel like slotting a Zapdos somewhere should help solve some of the problems here.
Fruh also brought an alternate of the most popular Mag Spikes comp of the last few years, with the old standard Mence over Aero and Cloy over Skarm. I don't really get the appeal Cloy here, since I feel like it doesn't have the longevity or utility of Skarm in most match-ups, but I can appreciate that it isn't trapped by Mag, and maybe Heal Bell Celebi allows it to run Rest and genuinely stuff some weaker water types to get three up while bullying Claydol. This can't be a 'bad' team per se, but the Spikes game feels worse than if it were just Skarm.
JabbaTheGriffin vs robjr:
I think this was a Kollin team that Jabba brought? Or maybe someone else's? Unsure. Zap+Cele is the only justification for Cune without Spin in my mind, so I think this team is theoretically correct. With a fighter and a CM BP Celebi to lure Skarm down and tools to overload Zapdos whose phasing and Tbolt STAB are annoying for the teams multiple win paths, the synergies are pretty clear. I'm not sure what the Cune set is, but I can guess that it's Rest with the SpD investment we saw. I think this team is good enough at blowing up phasers (even literally, with Metagross) that it can rely on Sub (and not Roar) to beat non-CM Bliss counters, and the lack of Spin makes me want something faster than Rest. I don't know if I'm convinced by Protect on Zapdos, though. I think there are other tools, like Toxic or Roar, for example, that help play around phasing or Blissey, even if you dislike Sub Pass eating away at Zapdos' health here. I like Mix Meta here, too, because it appreciates CMs being passed to it while offering pressure into its usual checks and counters. However, the Aero Spikes match-up looks a bit scary without Agility Meta and there are multiple Skarm lures. Do we belive in Mix Agility Meta? I'm not convinced that Zard is consistently landing into Pert, though, so I'm concerned about the match-up against waters, and obviously DD Tar setting up on the wrong mon is a problem, but I think this team is more playable with more SpA investment on Cune? I don't really like off Cune without Spin or Lax (or maybe Registeel), so I've never loved this kind of team, but this team is believable at this level for sure. In any case, this team is smart, if a bit of a throwback in terms of approach.
robjr brought EC. If you don't know what this does, you need to tap tf in. When I was using this team a few years back, I strongly advocated for lead Zap to trade with opposing lead Zap comps. Of course, this presupposes an opponent against whom you expect to see non-Tar lead or no back Zap a fair amount of the time. One of the upsides is that you can preserve a healthy back DD Tar to deploy it judiciously. I am still high on this concept, and I think it should be exported elsewhere. I think it's improved by Hydro Pump on Swampert, but I can appreciate the desire for Mono Pert here, too. It's a coverage choice that is a necessary evil. On this team, you do probably have to trade Tar in service of Aero more often than inverting the offense. Another tricky factor is that Tar is difficult to support while remaining solid, since it gives secondary defensive utility back to a team (as in, it doesn't counter the most dangerous breakers) and many of the mons that tend to overlap are similarly defensively lackluster. In any case, I'm looking into back DD Tar concepts, since I think they should be especially good into the current meta. It's only unfortunate that you have to play without Sand against stall in the first place.
Endill vs mielke:
Endill loaded a Sandless Spikes offense. I feel like the upside of these teams is that you can slot better compression against the Sand match-ups while throwing a curveball against the Sandless comps. I wonder if this was Sub or Refresh Mence, to that point, which should better help choke out Milo and Toxic Jirachi. This team looks like it could have given mielke real sweats had Overheat landed on Celebi, especially since Jolteon had a strong match-up here, depending on sets. I'm not sure what the Metagross set was here, but I think maybe a mixed set would have been welcome to stick it to Skarm and Pert, although hit and run against Swampert doesn't seem to be an option here. HP Grass on Meta could allow Meta to spread the chip effectively and even boom Claydol for Jolt. I like the idea of Jolteon as a heavy lifter on this kind of comp. It's worse than Blissey at handling special defensive responsibilities -- and obviously it doesn't give back against Mence. But as the sole special defensive mon, it's decent at handling non-TW Zap and non-Pert special attackers alright. Molt gives back against opposing Molt and Mix Mence. Obviously, the offense is overlapping on waters in service of Molt and DD Mence. Cool team.
Mielke brought this:
He shared this and gave me the go ahead to post this, but I won't be posting the paste here, in case he changes his mind and wants to keep his spreads and sets under wraps for now. It looks like he was inspired by Fruhdazi's experimentation with Suitless Forre and his previous Celebi+Aerodactyl phase. The Celebi doesn't have recovery, though, and the Tyranitar is without Leftovers, so I suspect this team is a bit shaky on the specially defensive side. The team does play quickly against Skarmory, so I can see why he would choose to use Forre without Suit here, and it probably just aims to take advantage of Skarm without Spin or in the 1v1 to claim some advantage over Skarm on this comp. With a back up steel type, it makes some sense. I'm not sure I trust the longevity of Celebi here. In fact, I don't really care for even defensive Celebi as a primary special check more generally, so the risk factor concerns me. I don't think Super Celebi is worth it without +2 Speed being passed to it anymore, but I can see how CM Celebi fits the tempo of this team and trades effectively with the grounded bulky mons that Aero wants chipped -- or even Mence, who can annoy this kind of team. I won't comment further, because that would reveal the techs, and I again feel that it is up to mielke to ultimately decide that.
I'll post the week's teams later, but I felt like doing this now. Happy building, folks.
M Dragon vs Kollin:
It was speculated by triangles that the last was Gengar for M Dragon. I think that's probably the best guess. There's no reason to have Spin on such an airbound team with grounded recovery under Sand (Volt Absorb, Leftovers on Tar), and the ability of Gengar to lure Blissey in and to trade with Claydol and/or Spin block, which really helps Flygon, Jolteon, and Zapdos out here. Alternatively, I could imagine a (Mix?) Metagross or a (Sub?, CM) Jirachi here, which additionally offer backbone and a means of pressuring or beating Blissey (teams) and a means of trading out opposing Metagross, since this team does not switch into Meteor Mash especially well -- and sells out by dropping Roar from Skarmory. It's not bad against Metagross with a well-supported Zapdos, but that is a soft point, particularly as Zapdos has to handle Swampert for this style of team -- if the last isn't a bulky Giga Drain Gengar. Anyway, I've been wondering what possibility there is for finding new life for Jolteon in the tier, and this team is certainly an interesting try. It feels like there's been a scourge of Dol and Bliss or Steel in recent years that have stifled Jolt. I'm not convinced that Tox+Tect Zapdos is enough for the wave of Aroma+TW Bliss (+Dol with Wish or Rest?) that Johnald has made his bread and butter in this strong run of his, but it should be good enough for near everything else. Ref Dol is out of favor, so the coverage is pretty good here. Plus, the Zap lead is well supported. My main points of concern are probably the lack of phasing and the softness against Swampert, though. While the Tar could almost comfortably be HP Grass, dropping Crunch (for Dol) is risky and dropping fire coverage for Meta/Skarm would also be concerning. Even with a Giga Drain Gengar, this team finds it hard to switch into offensive Swampert -- especially the Refresh 3 set that the Zoomers have been loving. It's not perfect, but it's still a good take with nice techs, and I think maybe M Dragon had a read on Kollin that lead him to bring this, and it definitely paid off.
Kollin brought the most standard AeroDug comp with a Mix Tar. I tend to think you want a bulkier Tar on these teams to switch into Zapdos (and thereby Jolteon or Raikou) better, since Zap can overtasked with handling opposing Zapdos. I don't think it would have made a huge difference in this game, to be honest, though, because Jolteon outsped Dugtrio and what likely was Adamant Aero. It probably had HP Grass for Swampert. And while it does have to avoid eating Gengar's Explosion or, less concerning, a Toxic from Zapdos, it does have a positive matchup against those two as well. With Flygon and Zapdos to duel Kollin's own Zap and to stifle Pert and Tar, it's just difficult to trade up into a favorable position against Jolt Spikes. If the last really was Gengar, then there was another special attacker to overload Zap+Tar and to chip Gar into range for Jolt to clean up. Not a bad build from Kollin, but this was the worst combination of factors that made the game difficult for him.
Blaise vs Johnald:
Blaise loaded the evil triple trap Milo Dol Rest Lax team -- but without Rest Talk Lax. It would have helped here, I think. Against Johnald's usual fare with Bold Cune, maybe this team would have struggled. It could be that Lax has Self-destruct last to solve this exact problem? Or maybe it could be recommended. In any case, it's been a while since we've seen Rest Lax or any of the other old cheese, and it's funny to see that it would take a throwback like Johnald to bring it out of his opponents.
Johnald brought a take on the new standard SkarmMag comp with Zap instead of Celebi. Zapdos is one of my favorite mons to pair with Magneton, so I love this team. The team cheats a bit against a well-supported Snorlax, as we saw in the game, relying on Leech Seed and Roar to keep Lax down. With three special checks, the team is pretty comfortable against non-CM special and mixed attackers. Each of the individual pieces become more expendible and therefore offensively potent for the inclusion of the others. As such, the Zapdos is quite offensive and runs a highly invested Modest Thunder, which helped it to break through. I think I prefer Zap phasing and using Rest regardless -- which should free Pert to run Curse or Toxic -- but with Wish, Aroma, and no need to depend on Zap defensively, Zap can be used selectively to maximize its offensive output. I think the Mence (and Aero) versions of this comp fare better against Snorlax, but this is a good team either way. You've got two of the three secondary walls that people usually forget about in Zap and Bold Celebi, which makes loading Cune against it a nightmare. It's also maybe the first high-level Bliss+Pert comp that we've seen since the Skarph 6. I think it's an awkward moment for the duo, since Dol, Star, and Gon tend to be desired with Bliss for the Spikes control elements, and it's generally easier to fit Starmie with Bliss+Pert than Claydol. I think there are a couple of decent Bliss+Star teams that could be used, but there is understandable skepticism towards Starmie in general. In any case, my complements to the chef for the smart cook.
triangles vs Fruhdazi:
Regirock CM Pass. Tyros gang would be proud. This team seems to play a fake game against Zapdos defensively. We're looking at a team where the only switch in to Zap is a Celebi that can't hit it. If the Starmie isn't using Recover, it is selling out against bulkier Spikes comps, too, aiming to Spin once or maybe twice in a game and focus on its offensive potential. If it is using Recover, you're choosing between STAB and Tbolt which should help against Suicune. I think we're looking at a Recoverless Starmie. Snorlax also looks to be a pain in the ass, since the Zard (probably?!) isn't Focus Punch, the Celebi has pillow hands, and the other special attackers look to be wet noodles to Lax with backup. This team should farm SkarmBliss with its eyes closed, between Beat Up Zard, Spin, CM(?) Jira, BP, and the grounded offensive heavy hitters, but I'm skeptical of this team against Milo with phasers or offense. That being said, this team looks really physically sturdy, and we didn't get to see the Jira set. It didn't reveal Protect, so I'm confident it's not a dedicated defensive set, but it's possible the theory is to distribute responsibilities for checking Zap and Cune with the Jira. It's an interesting comp, and I think it's a high-upside build, too, but I feel like slotting a Zapdos somewhere should help solve some of the problems here.
Fruh also brought an alternate of the most popular Mag Spikes comp of the last few years, with the old standard Mence over Aero and Cloy over Skarm. I don't really get the appeal Cloy here, since I feel like it doesn't have the longevity or utility of Skarm in most match-ups, but I can appreciate that it isn't trapped by Mag, and maybe Heal Bell Celebi allows it to run Rest and genuinely stuff some weaker water types to get three up while bullying Claydol. This can't be a 'bad' team per se, but the Spikes game feels worse than if it were just Skarm.
JabbaTheGriffin vs robjr:
I think this was a Kollin team that Jabba brought? Or maybe someone else's? Unsure. Zap+Cele is the only justification for Cune without Spin in my mind, so I think this team is theoretically correct. With a fighter and a CM BP Celebi to lure Skarm down and tools to overload Zapdos whose phasing and Tbolt STAB are annoying for the teams multiple win paths, the synergies are pretty clear. I'm not sure what the Cune set is, but I can guess that it's Rest with the SpD investment we saw. I think this team is good enough at blowing up phasers (even literally, with Metagross) that it can rely on Sub (and not Roar) to beat non-CM Bliss counters, and the lack of Spin makes me want something faster than Rest. I don't know if I'm convinced by Protect on Zapdos, though. I think there are other tools, like Toxic or Roar, for example, that help play around phasing or Blissey, even if you dislike Sub Pass eating away at Zapdos' health here. I like Mix Meta here, too, because it appreciates CMs being passed to it while offering pressure into its usual checks and counters. However, the Aero Spikes match-up looks a bit scary without Agility Meta and there are multiple Skarm lures. Do we belive in Mix Agility Meta? I'm not convinced that Zard is consistently landing into Pert, though, so I'm concerned about the match-up against waters, and obviously DD Tar setting up on the wrong mon is a problem, but I think this team is more playable with more SpA investment on Cune? I don't really like off Cune without Spin or Lax (or maybe Registeel), so I've never loved this kind of team, but this team is believable at this level for sure. In any case, this team is smart, if a bit of a throwback in terms of approach.
robjr brought EC. If you don't know what this does, you need to tap tf in. When I was using this team a few years back, I strongly advocated for lead Zap to trade with opposing lead Zap comps. Of course, this presupposes an opponent against whom you expect to see non-Tar lead or no back Zap a fair amount of the time. One of the upsides is that you can preserve a healthy back DD Tar to deploy it judiciously. I am still high on this concept, and I think it should be exported elsewhere. I think it's improved by Hydro Pump on Swampert, but I can appreciate the desire for Mono Pert here, too. It's a coverage choice that is a necessary evil. On this team, you do probably have to trade Tar in service of Aero more often than inverting the offense. Another tricky factor is that Tar is difficult to support while remaining solid, since it gives secondary defensive utility back to a team (as in, it doesn't counter the most dangerous breakers) and many of the mons that tend to overlap are similarly defensively lackluster. In any case, I'm looking into back DD Tar concepts, since I think they should be especially good into the current meta. It's only unfortunate that you have to play without Sand against stall in the first place.
Endill vs mielke:
Endill loaded a Sandless Spikes offense. I feel like the upside of these teams is that you can slot better compression against the Sand match-ups while throwing a curveball against the Sandless comps. I wonder if this was Sub or Refresh Mence, to that point, which should better help choke out Milo and Toxic Jirachi. This team looks like it could have given mielke real sweats had Overheat landed on Celebi, especially since Jolteon had a strong match-up here, depending on sets. I'm not sure what the Metagross set was here, but I think maybe a mixed set would have been welcome to stick it to Skarm and Pert, although hit and run against Swampert doesn't seem to be an option here. HP Grass on Meta could allow Meta to spread the chip effectively and even boom Claydol for Jolt. I like the idea of Jolteon as a heavy lifter on this kind of comp. It's worse than Blissey at handling special defensive responsibilities -- and obviously it doesn't give back against Mence. But as the sole special defensive mon, it's decent at handling non-TW Zap and non-Pert special attackers alright. Molt gives back against opposing Molt and Mix Mence. Obviously, the offense is overlapping on waters in service of Molt and DD Mence. Cool team.
Mielke brought this:
He shared this and gave me the go ahead to post this, but I won't be posting the paste here, in case he changes his mind and wants to keep his spreads and sets under wraps for now. It looks like he was inspired by Fruhdazi's experimentation with Suitless Forre and his previous Celebi+Aerodactyl phase. The Celebi doesn't have recovery, though, and the Tyranitar is without Leftovers, so I suspect this team is a bit shaky on the specially defensive side. The team does play quickly against Skarmory, so I can see why he would choose to use Forre without Suit here, and it probably just aims to take advantage of Skarm without Spin or in the 1v1 to claim some advantage over Skarm on this comp. With a back up steel type, it makes some sense. I'm not sure I trust the longevity of Celebi here. In fact, I don't really care for even defensive Celebi as a primary special check more generally, so the risk factor concerns me. I don't think Super Celebi is worth it without +2 Speed being passed to it anymore, but I can see how CM Celebi fits the tempo of this team and trades effectively with the grounded bulky mons that Aero wants chipped -- or even Mence, who can annoy this kind of team. I won't comment further, because that would reveal the techs, and I again feel that it is up to mielke to ultimately decide that.
I'll post the week's teams later, but I felt like doing this now. Happy building, folks.
