Pokémon Champions - releasing April 8, 2026

[tentaghost]

So ive been hearing this a bit and i need to ask:

Im of the mind that IVs getting removed was bound to happen at some point but, were IVs really that important in competitive, i mean were there any popular stratiges that reliled on IVs specifically to function?
(like them being at a specific number not just 0-31)

 

[R_N]

So ive been hearing this a bit and i need to ask:

Im of the mind that IVs getting removed was bound to happen at some point but, were IVs really that important in competitive, i mean were there any popular stratiges that reliled on IVs specifically to function?
(like them being at a specific number not just 0-31)

It's been a while but I think there were a handful of strategies that did go out of their way to tweak some IVs beyond "always lowest/always highest" but they were comparatively niche. And I might just be thinking of people putting together trick room teams and going "whatever, this is fine enough"

 

[RoyalDispenser]

So ive been hearing this a bit and i need to ask:

Im of the mind that IVs getting removed was bound to happen at some point but, were IVs really that important in competitive, i mean were there any popular stratiges that reliled on IVs specifically to function?
(like them being at a specific number not just 0-31)

Trick room is an obvious one because pokemon in the 50s/60s you'd want to be slower than 30-60 thresholds otherwise you run into more speed ties in trick room (cresselia in non-trick room teams typically won't run 0 speed IVs 4fun meaning your trick room cresselia moves first always.)

Beast Boost/Protosynethsis/Quark Drive/Download all have some tinkering with IVs to manipulate what kind of boost they give sometimes.

Slither Wing has a 11 attack IV set so that protosynthesis boost speed instead of attack for example. There used to be valid reason to run an IV or two lower in defense/special defense for the sake of not giving genesect certain boost (normally you'd do 4 EVs on same-stat to raise on of them higher but occasionally you need to dip a little more and its more worth to just lower one via IVs instead of lowering your offense or speed etc.)

Foul play and confusion strats heavily rely on attack stats being higher so overall special attackers got nerfed into those since they can't do 0 IV attack.

 

[Cuddly]

So ive been hearing this a bit and i need to ask:

Im of the mind that IVs getting removed was bound to happen at some point but, were IVs really that important in competitive, i mean were there any popular stratiges that reliled on IVs specifically to function?
(like them being at a specific number not just 0-31)

The only really relevant changes are with some Ultra Beasts (namely Stakataka) and also Ursaluna.
Stakataka can’t boost its Atk with Beast Boost anymore and neither can Kartana with its Speed.
Ursaluna can no longer underspeed base 30s at all, which honestly sounds like a bigger deal until you realize you can just not click Trick Room like an NPC, or the fact that you still underspeed the vast majority of the game anyways with a minus speed nature.

 

[TastieGaming]

Trick room is an obvious one because pokemon in the 50s/60s you'd want to be slower than 30-60 thresholds otherwise you run into more speed ties in trick room (cresselia in non-trick room teams typically won't run 0 speed IVs 4fun meaning your trick room cresselia moves first always.)

Beast Boost/Protosynethsis/Quark Drive/Download all have some tinkering with IVs to manipulate what kind of boost they give sometimes.

Slither Wing has a 11 attack IV set so that protosynthesis boost speed instead of attack for example. There used to be valid reason to run an IV or two lower in defense/special defense for the sake of not giving genesect certain boost (normally you'd do 4 EVs on same-stat to raise on of them higher but occasionally you need to dip a little more and its more worth to just lower one via IVs instead of lowering your offense or speed etc.)

Foul play and confusion strats heavily rely on attack stats being higher so overall special attackers got nerfed into those since they can't do 0 IV attack.

That's why I'm worried about the removal. Quoting Wolfe Glick, IVs were an expression of skill, but imo they really mattered for Paradox/Ultra Beasts. Kartana now can't get a speed boosting Beast Boost, and underspeeding Pokemon for Flip Turn will be in the hands of RNG now.

 

[R_N]

That's why I'm worried about the removal. Quoting Wolfe Glick, IVs were an expression of skill, but imo they really mattered for Paradox/Ultra Beasts. Kartana now can't get a speed boosting Beast Boost, and underspeeding Pokemon for Flip Turn will be in the hands of RNG now.

Sounds to me like now EVs (& natures) will be the primary expression of stat skill

I think the adaptation will go smoother than people think, though.

 

[Worldie]

The thing is that those were *extremely* minor adjustments, that you'd often just do to avoid 50/50s. Even at your loss (es he mentioned making his Incineroar have imperfect IVs to underspeed under TR, but at same time that put it at disadvantage againts other ones outside of it).

I am quite confident there isn't a single VGC player who will be sad about IVs being gone. It's simply less grinding, less boring repetitive tasks to perform in game, and less reason to pkhex your pokemon to perfect stats.

 

[Esserise]

I was gonna make a joke that while I personally don’t really mind IVs being removed, it does feel a bit funny to get rid of them so soon after adding Bottle Caps to completely trivialize the issue for most players outside of such edge cases as above.

Then I remembered that Bottle Caps were added a decade ago…

 

[Cuddly]

Actually, there is also Brute Bonnet that would have hypothetically been affected.
With Champions going from EVs to SPs, Brute Bonnet could in theory made its Atk lower than its Speed and let it get a Speed Boost.

 

[tentaghost]

That's why I'm worried about the removal. Quoting Wolfe Glick, IVs were an expression of skill, but imo they really mattered for Paradox/Ultra Beasts. Kartana now can't get a speed boosting Beast Boost, and underspeeding Pokemon for Flip Turn will be in the hands of RNG now.

Actually, whats stopping them from making beast boost and proto, depend on evs instead? Is it a calculation/compatability thing or what?

 

[Cuddly]

Actually, whats stopping them from making beast boost and proto, depend on evs instead? Is it a calculation/compatability thing or what?

My guess is they wouldn’t do that for the Paradox Pokemon because of Brute Bonnet. They gave Brute Bonnet its stats specifically to prevent it from having a +1 Speed Spore. Its max Spe at lvl 50 is 117 while its min Atk is 118.

 

[Eclairius]

Actually, whats stopping them from making beast boost and proto, depend on evs instead? Is it a calculation/compatability thing or what?

Beast boost/protosynthesis/quark drive are based on the biggest final stat; removing IVs means taking away the ability to even further reduce a stat to allow another to be boosted. (Edit: Being based on the final stat means there can be big opportunity costs to running certain boosts, which wouldn't happen with something purely based on EVs)
Aside from those, there's the case of Gyro Ball where you want to be as slow as possible to maximize damage.

 

[R_N]

Actually, there is also Brute Bonnet that would have hypothetically been affected.
With Champions going from EVs to SPs, Brute Bonnet could in theory made its Atk lower than its Speed and let it get a Speed Boost.

SP are just EV though, unless I'm misreading what you're saying I'm not seeing how you'd do that in this system compared to not being able to do it before

This meganium has maxed ou special attack SP (shown later in the trailer to explicitly cap out at 32), which equates exactly to a level 50, neutral-SpAtk nature Meganium with Max EVs

 

[Worldie]

Also small sarcasm, but the fact that IVs are gone at least will allow casters in official VGC streams to not have to pretend that EV/IVs don't exist and will be able to mention "Stat Points".

 

[Sulfurian]

That's why I'm worried about the removal. Quoting Wolfe Glick, IVs were an expression of skill, but imo they really mattered for Paradox/Ultra Beasts. Kartana now can't get a speed boosting Beast Boost, and underspeeding Pokemon for Flip Turn will be in the hands of RNG now.

The problem with Wolfe, VGC players, and most people who play cart is that specific iv numbers was almost impossible to get. Even with a hacked ditto its tough, and good luck with legendaries. Yes, it is to take advantage of the mindset of 0 or 31 being the norm, however the process of even obtaining it is not realistic, the person who soft reset LEGITIMATE 0 attack 0 speed blood moon ursaluna probably damaged his vision more than the guy who showcased how much "skill" they have.

 

[Cuddly]

SP are just EV though, unless I'm misreading what you're saying I'm not seeing how you'd do that in this system compared to not being able to do it before

This meganium has maxed ou special attack SP (shown later in the trailer to explicitly cap out at 32), which equates exactly to a level 50, neutral-SpAtk nature Meganium with Max EVs

That could very much be the case, but it’d be kind of weird to convert EV to SP.
252/32 is 7.875 while just 4 more EVs would make SPs exactly 1/8th of EVs.
Maybe how Champions calculates stats steals some SP, where Meganium with 31 SP would have the same SpA as 32 SP. Stats do round down, meaning that the stat could have been 135.9999~
We won’t know for sure until the game is datamined.

 

[TastieGaming]

Actually, whats stopping them from making beast boost and proto, depend on evs instead? Is it a calculation/compatability thing or what?

The way it's calculated is by the actual stat, after all of the EVs and such are calculated. Making it based on the amount you invested could probably work though, it would allow you to run things like SpDef Assault Vest Buzzwole, which would be cool.

 

[R_N]

That could very much be the case, but it’d be kind of weird to convert EV to SP.
252/32 is 7.875 while just 4 more EVs would make SPs exactly 1/8th of EVs.
Maybe how Champions calculates stats steals some SP, where Meganium with 31 SP would have the same SpA as 32 SP. Stats do round down, meaning that the stat could have been 135.9999~
We won’t know for sure until the game is datamined.

later in the trailer it steps through Dragonite applying its SP to max out ATtack

0 - 169 (Atk nature)
1 - 170
2 - 171
3 - 172
4 - 173
5 - 174 (it faded in so i had to frame by frame this, didnt seem to be 175)
[faded]
25 - 196 (equivalent to 196 or 200 EVs)
26 - 198 (you can recreate this 2 point jump by going from 200 to 204)
27 - 199
28 - 200
29 - 201
30 - 202
31 - 203
32 - 204 (equivalent to modern 31 IV, 252 EV +Atk Dragonite)

I dunno seems like it is just EVs usual system of stat application, just simplified to 32 points.

 

[Cuddly]

The way it's calculated is by the actual stat, after all of the EVs and such are calculated. Making it based on the amount you invested could probably work though, it would allow you to run things like SpDef Assault Vest Buzzwole, which would be cool.

Brute Bonnet and Blacephalon would really break that system.
Brute Bonnet can now easily boost its own speed without Drought + Booster Energy shenanigans. And that is also while keep its high Atk intact with 31 SPs as oppose to min Atk.
Blacephalon while is able to boost Speed, it can only do so with Jolly nature and thus makes its damage output much lower. Getting speed boost on a Pokemon with 151 SpA that isn’t compromised would be a bit OP.

 

[TastieGaming]

The problem with Wolfe, VGC players, and most people who play cart is that specific iv numbers was almost impossible to get. Even with a hacked ditto its tough, and good luck with legendaries. Yes, it is to take advantage of the mindset of 0 or 31 being the norm, however the process of even obtaining it is not realistic, the person who soft reset LEGITIMATE 0 attack 0 speed blood moon ursaluna probably damaged his vision more than the guy who showcased how much "skill" they have.

I wish they just had a way for players to edit them manually... yes, it's hard to explain how IVs work, but they could just change the meaning of them or something. Then again, I struggled to grasp them myself...

 

[ant4456]

Trick room is an obvious one because pokemon in the 50s/60s you'd want to be slower than 30-60 thresholds otherwise you run into more speed ties in trick room (cresselia in non-trick room teams typically won't run 0 speed IVs 4fun meaning your trick room cresselia moves first always.)

Beast Boost/Protosynethsis/Quark Drive/Download all have some tinkering with IVs to manipulate what kind of boost they give sometimes.

Slither Wing has a 11 attack IV set so that protosynthesis boost speed instead of attack for example. There used to be valid reason to run an IV or two lower in defense/special defense for the sake of not giving genesect certain boost (normally you'd do 4 EVs on same-stat to raise on of them higher but occasionally you need to dip a little more and its more worth to just lower one via IVs instead of lowering your offense or speed etc.)

Foul play and confusion strats heavily rely on attack stats being higher so overall special attackers got nerfed into those since they can't do 0 IV attack.

i think its definitely fair to say that ivs add skill expression in the builder however i'm gonna say that skill expression is lame and adds too much barrier to entry so i dont care

not even on the grinding front but a know the meta to the billionth degree to figure out your IV matchup for the trick room mirror isn't an interesting way to win or lose imo

sometimes skill expression isn't good for the game imo

i say this as a chinese ev spread extraordinaire min maxxing speed tiers because erm ackshually this is more optimal nerd emoji point finger up, this is the kind of thing that the average player will probably not even realize or maybe think they just won/lost a speed tie

i simply dont think iv wars make for interesting or accessible gameplay, in the trick room mirror #position better

 

[TastieGaming]

i think its definitely fair to say that ivs add skill expression in the builder however i'm gonna say that skill expression is lame and adds too much barrier to entry so i dont care

not even on the grinding front but a know the meta to the billionth degree to figure out your IV matchup for the trick room mirror isn't an interesting way to win or lose imo

sometimes skill expression isn't good for the game imo

i say this as a chinese ev spread extraordinaire min maxxing speed tiers because erm ackshually this is more optimal nerd emoji point finger up, this is the kind of thing that the average player will probably not even realize or maybe think they just won/lost a speed tie

i simply dont think iv wars make for interesting or accessible gameplay, in the trick room mirror #position better

I'd honestly rather run 0 Speed Mola and know I'm going to always or usually win the mirror match then let it off to luck. Pokemon is all about skill expression, and being smart enough to run a set that beats others is part of that. I just really hate the idea of speed ties being way more common, there's enough things left to RNG as is in Pokemon.

 

[Karxrida]

I wish they just had a way for players to edit them manually... yes, it's hard to explain how IVs work, but they could just change the meaning of them or something. Then again, I struggled to grasp them myself...

The problem with allowing players to directly edit IVs is that it would require Game Freak to acknowledge they exist. iirc a stream commentator at an official competitive event once got reprimanded for bringing up Absol's base Attack value because GF doesn't want to be transparent about how the inner systems of the games work.

It's really stupid how bullheaded they are about this stuff while simultaneously trying to support the existence of VGC.

 

[Worldie]

The problem with allowing players to directly edit IVs is that it would require Game Freak to acknowledge they exist. iirc a stream commentator at an official competitive event once got reprimanded for bringing up Absol's base Attack value because GF doesn't want to be transparent about how the inner systems of the games work.

It's really stupid how bullheaded they are about this stuff while simultaneously trying to support the existence of VGC.

Yeah, that's what I was implying at earlier

Also small sarcasm, but the fact that IVs are gone at least will allow casters in official VGC streams to not have to pretend that EV/IVs don't exist and will be able to mention "Stat Points".

For whatever reason GF has pretty much refused to aknowledge IVs even exist as a feature, probably cause they're never explicitly explained even though you can see their "estimated value" via the IV Judge in game.

Considering how obscure they are, how they've been the n1 reason to hack pokemon, and how they've been made progressively more obsolete with the years, I'm honestly not surprised they're getting rid of them for good.

 

[Cuddly]

The only case of IVs being “skill expression” is really Amoongus running enough Spe IVs to underspeed a min Spe Ursaluna by 1 point, which almost everyone does anyways without even realizing it.
Running Max IVs and 0 IV Atk/Spe is even automatically set for you on Showdown. And you only set 0 IVs to those values as a “I want to do minimum of this stat”.
Next level is using Stakataka or Kartana with lower IVs to make sure 1 stat is lower than the other. That’s just noticing how Beast Boost works, which tbf is a bit more skillful than automatically setting min Atk and min Spe. And similarly Great Tusk using lower HP IVs to minimize Life Orb recoil.
What makes Amoongus with 27 Spe IVs skillful is how it recognizes team archetypes and different scenarios that can happen. You still want to underspeed Ursaluna since you can do that easily, but you still want to use paralysis and tailwind to your advantage when Trick Room isn’t up.
That’s pretty much it. The actual skill expression is with EVs since you can finely tune them more than and there is an actual budget.