Codraroll
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  • Just read that you’re on TFP staff - well deserved! You’ve got some good shit to put toward it, so I’m excited to see what’s in store.
    I hope you got a laugh out of the fake leak I didn't mean to make anyone angry if it did I'm sorry posting this to everyone that looked at it
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    OI isn't really the place for such posts, hence why we had to lock it. Gave me a chuckle, though.
    What the hell is up with the current games obsession with limiting enemy movesets? Some trainers have mons with only two or three moves...
    Would love to see a pokemon on switch / future article from you :)
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    Would love to write one, but until December 1st I'm kind of swamped with work as it is! Turns out that "office hours" and "weekends" aren't necessarily things for PhD students. I think it'll get considerably better from then on, though, so I'll let the idea stew in the back of my head in the meantime!
    Seeing your recent post on the usage thread, I see you share my disillusionment with competitive battling. There's a reason why I don't use Legenderies and Mega's, despite the obvious limits it puts on me.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    My main reason not to is because of the absolute tedium of getting anything worth using (SRing for natures. Hidden Power and, until recently, IVs), and the fact that you can only catch them once (so you only get one shot). Megas are fine enough, though, but I mostly play in-game where Game Freak suddenly decided to abolish Megas altogether.
    I heard that's it's illegal to provide money for ESports in Japan. Might that be part of the reason why Gamefreak currently gives such poor support to the competitive scene?
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    Nah, I think it's just that Nintendo doesn't have a culture for professional esports yet. Besides, it's not like such a law would prevent the developers from tuning their games for competitive play. I just think they don't consider it important enough to spend such a large amount of money on balance.
    I wonder if anyone's realised PU's intent was being the "bottom-tier" for Pokémon, because it looks like everyone's forgotten that. Smogon really needs to actually keep its power creep in check.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    Eh, I've never played competitively, so it's not a big issue for me.
    Gamefreak has to pull a Breath of the Wild and properly adapt Pokémon to the modern industry. Without, the franchise is on a one-way-trip into a brick wall.
    I find it amazing that Gamefreak is so lax with VGC to the point of basically not giving a shit about balance, while Yu-Gi-Oh has an official ban list enforced in official tournaments. Smogon is more professional than Gamefreak TBH.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    Indeed. It seems like some thought is given to balance, but not much rigor. Stuff like Mega Kangaskhan was approved and implemented seemingly without any analysis of its powers. Smogon continually implements data from experience in its ruleset, although even with all the work done here, it still takes months or even years for a metagame to settle. So it seems like proper analysis would cost Game Freak too much to perform rigorously.
    Rain Spectre
    Really? Because Yu-Gi-Oh updates its official banlist every few months. And it introduces new cards and playsets quite frequently, verses Pokémon which only releases new mechanics, balance shifts and mons every three years on average. There's not really an excuse. Gamefreak designing the games as games first and meta second doesn't work either IMO when there are real tournaments that give winners real money.

    The problem with Smogon is more the broken and highly exploitable suspect test system that, in an attempt to involve the community, basically sabotages any fair play and results in giant flame wars. If the council just did quickbans, things would be much happier. (Though, with the way YGO bans work, Landorous-T would've been banned long ago under such a system)
    Rain Spectre
    Lemme put it like this, the reason why Smogon takes so long isn't some mystical "complexity", it's that it's a fan community founded and run by fans. And yet it has to basically do the job any other competitive community gets from the people running official parts of said meta.
    I've lately been wondering if the reliance on Legendries, Pokémon who aren't "balanced" in the same way as normal mons, is the root problem of competitive play (both Smogon and VGC). Thoughts?
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    I've been thinking about the same myself. Getting a competitive-grade specimen of a "regular" Pokémon species is a manner of some breeding, hatching and EV training, which can be repeated as many times as necessary in one game. It's even possible to train IVs nowadays, so really the only worry is Nature and Hidden Power.

    But legendaries require you to seek out one-off Pokémon (which are often game exclusive) and roll the dice over and over again until the stats match up with what you want, and when you have accepted an outcome you won't get any more chances. So if a Jolly nature is all the rage one year, you have to start the game over if suddenly Adamant turns out to be a better option. Or woe is the one who tries to get into competitive battling after already catching the one-off Pokémon.

    This, combined with the fact that legendaries are usually so strong that they're practically required for success in high-level play (Landorus, Heatran, Cresselia, Tapu Koko...) really raises the treshold for competitive cartridge play. You can raise regular Pokémon with some reliability at almost any time in the post-game (barring unfortunate incidents such as trading away your Destiny Knot or something like that), but you have one and only one shot at the legendaries - often not even that, if you don't own the games they come in. And don't even get me started on Event Pokémon...
    Rain Spectre
    It's not just that. I saw False Swipe Gaming's video on Arcanine, and something that stuck out to me is the point that it was knocked down in tier because of Heatran doing it's job better. I'm like, why should that matter? Why should it's use be diminished because of something that is not even supposed to be balanced?

    The problem I see ties to fighting games IMO. Fighting games are notorious for extremely powerful bosses, but they're either tournament banned or severely nerfed from the boss versions. Pokémon don't have bosses like that, because bosses (bar Battle Facilities) don't have legendries. No battle that isn't Pokémon catching expects you to properly "fight" a Legendery, with proper AI and tactics.

    It make it blunt, Legendries feel like a fighting game where every character played is a boss character. Maybe it's because the Pokémon tournament scene is way more undeveloped (VGC has nothing on EVO), but it feels like a weird and pretty careless idea to judge everything based on something that relies on a completely different spectrum.

    Also, I am really sick of seeing Landorus in battles.
    Made a rather nasty revelation. Factoring perfect IV's, best nature and the preferred ability (with the numeric of Pokémon having two abilities on average), the chance of getting a "competitive" Pokémon ingame is 0.39%, even without factoring in EV training. And people question why Smogon is vastly more popular to VGC and why Showdown is so widely used.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    What is the scenario? Breeding two perfect parents, wild capture, or just the total chance to find a good 'mon given X number of encounters while playing?
    Rain Spectre
    The last one, for simplicities sake.
    Have to say, I really don't get people who claim Gen V is the worst in Mons. Honestly, a huge amount of my faves come from Gen V, both in design and battle ability.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    Thing is, Gen V is almost 50/50 fantastic and terrible. For starters, the starters are awful. Bland designs, mediocre battlers. Then almost all the early-game Pokémon are parallel to previous-gen Pokémon: Rock type that evolves at level 25 and then again by trading. Three-stage humanoid mono-Fighting with the same evolutionary pattern. Blue, three-stage Water-type that evolves from a tadpole. Two-stage bat living in caves. Ground-type bipedal mole. Two-stage elemental equine. A pair of humanoid Fighting-types that wear clothing and focus on different martial arts. Even something as specific as a Psychic-type tapir with a design focused on dreams was copied wholesale. It was as if the encounter tables for each area were written based on previous-gen Pokémon, and then new Pokémon were created to match their roles.

    But after Nimbasa City or so, Unova starts presenting entirely new and unique designs. In the dex, you can see mostly "unoriginal" designs up to Crustle or so, but from Scrafty onward it seems like the designers let their creativity loose. As if they filled their obligations and were then allowed to be original. I think whether or not you like Gen V's Pokémon is a question if you think the amazing latter half weighs up for the mediocre first one.
    Rain Spectre
    I get the point that a number of mons are based on Gen I, but I don't think that make them all bad. Excadrill is one of my fave Ground types, and I and many others vastly prefer it to Dugtrio.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    Actually, I was comparing it more to Sandslash, but I guess it takes elements from Dugtrio as well. Either way, the fact that it executes the concept better than those two doesn't mean the concept is not unoriginal.
    Which Gens mons would you say still need the most buffs?
    Rain Spectre
    Which Gen VII mons fit the "decidedly" average category? From where I'm standing, a fair amount are perfectly fine IMO.
    Codraroll
    Codraroll
    I'd say there's little reason to jump for joy over, say, Lurantis or Shiinotic. Bewear is a big cartoony gimmick, Silvally might as well have been an alternate form of Type: Null, and both Salazzle and Toxapex are held back by availability (well, for now at least). And there aren't that many other two-stage families in Alola, the dex seems dominated by single-stage 'mons nobody seem to bother with, since they're too hard to find in-game compared to the utility they provide in battle. The designers kind of dropped the ball this generation.
    Rain Spectre
    Yeah, I get your there regarding mons like Lurantis. It's pretty much the embodiment of being outshinned, considering the same gen introduced a Mono-Grass in Tsareena that's far more memorable and useful in battle.

    Bewear's a pretty solid Fighting type IMO. Don't see how it's a "gimmick".

    I don't see how there are any less efficient mons that, say, Gen VI. And Rhibombee, Mudsdale, Lycanroc, Aquarid and Golisiopod are plenty effective as well. Or does this go back to the "Aslowla" accusations? Because I blame that on the competitive communities warped view of speed in general.
    BTW, what Gen VII Mons you think will benefit from Move Tutors? I'm thinking Drain Punch for Bewear and Knock Off for Mimikyu would be deadly.
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