Finals Smogon Premier League XVII - Finals

Shoutout blunder for his intellectual and substantial predicts

Cryonicles (7) vs (5) Team Raiders

SV OU: bhkg vs zS - Honestly just pretty impossible to bold against zS right now. He has been extremely consistent for a couple years now, high floor but also very high ceiling. Consistently building new bullshit and piloting it well while being familiar with high stakes games, which makes for an overall very hard to beat combo. bhkg has momentum swings (the highs of WCoP and the lows of SCL) but is overall a solid SV gamer too. A hard worker / grinder who can win this game but it just doesn't feel very likely vs this opponent.

SV OU: clean vs tier - Clean is consistent and has been buffed when not costing 31k. I remember very few details from tier games this season but they have been winning a lot. I usually associate clean with a no-nonsense style consistenting of like hellom/bute hatterene zama balances and not really using full ho or stall often. People have said tier is an offense spammer? 6-1 is sheist but I think clean wins, probably with something a little unexpected in terms of teams or sets this time.

SV OU: watashi vs JJ09LIE - Watashi going for his 4th spl victory is a nice plot device, jj no slouch but favoring the veteran

SV OU: kDCA vs Ash KetchumGamer - Ash is definitely solid at SV (and shoutout the 3/3 finals stat) but kDCA's tiebreak win was definitely a standout game. I for sure thought he stood no shot after losing the g12 in the regular week and just looking kinda unsharp there. However, he kept his composure and prepped a smart team that he executed well in a do or die game and I expect that momentum to carry over here.

SS OU: Corazan vs Fc - Gotta give props to cora's mental fortitude of having a major loss streak into some big wins including the very memorable semis zapdos sweep. He's got more of a flair in the gen and it gives the vibes of the France winning roster in 2022. Fc has been consistent and solid for a while now, especially with that very dominant SCL but not really sticking out this tour. Definitely wouldn't be surprised if he won either but atm cora inspires more hype and confidence.

SM OU: c0mp vs Eternal Spirit - Gama has honestly been reminiscent of some og gama moments and it's extremely fair to bold him here BUT I don't think comp goes 0-3 in playoffs. He was also a big part of previous tigers runs with some dramatic wins too, so I think he'll turn it around for this one. Definitely could've beat tace in tiebreak and messed up a bit but I think that served as a wake up call and he'll step up here as he did in the past.

ORAS OU: MGdos16 vs Ruffles - I think Ruffles has done like average this tour? He's won his fair share and usually has a good knack for creativity and trendsetting. Definitely the more experienced of the 2 players and he's not facing Santu here so he should be fine. Mgdos has been solid and overall stepped up for his team, nothing really bad to say but also nothing I particularly remember TBH.

BW OU: GaryTheGengar vs Star - 2 friends 2 goats. Gary has obviously had the better tour of the 2 but I do think Star gets his win here. It probably won't be a clean game though I'm kind of foreseeing some scenario where like Star dodges 2 focus blasts with an excadrill and says he deserved it after the full season of getting lucked. Side note I do really hope the Raiders as a whole / managers have the courage to place Star in tiebreak even if he's 2-9 or something at that point it'd be very epic.

DPP OU: Gilbert arenas vs Skyrio - Super close and hype game, probably the highlight of the week which i'll be giving to Skyrio for now. His games have just been super impressive, clean, and dominant, most in form DPP'er if you look at the whole season. Marcop won a dramatic b2b games in semis but still not winning as clean as Skyrio has. I do, however, think cop would win in TB if it comes to that.

ADV OU: robjr vs Endill - Endill's games have felt ok, not great not shit. rob has had some very clutch games in previous SPLs but he felt more "in form" during those seasons too. This tour he even sat out for a good chunk of it and it almost feels too simple/easy to slot him back in for finals and expect an immediate win here? These guys are pretty close in skill overall but Endill is prob the more current of the two. Another game where neither outcome would be very surprising.

GSC OU: Zokuru vs Underlying - Both won in semis but admittedly I don't remember a ton of their games from this tour, so I'll give the edge to a more experienced Zokuru. That said, modern GSC is very unorthodox so I'm hoping to see some cool shit from both sides here regardless of who wins.

RBY OU: Sceptross vs BeeOrSomething - Solid modern rby'ers, hard to pick and kind of a tossup but the vibes say Scept

Hope both teams have fun and play some exciting pokemon, GL
 
Okay, good predictions, but I think c0mp deserves a defense (tbh he dont after this fucking game) over the attack regarding team choices, so starting with

blunder said:
" however i find the team choice to be extremely lacking, being 50% sample teams and 50% in house creations that are legit bad"
Click to expand...

That's just a lie. None of the teams brought by c0mp, except for the standard rain team, are actually a sample.More than that, c0mp is the player who brought the BEST SMOU teams this SPL. He also brought innovations thats not a fucking nonsense fish, such as his WOW Zard Y used in W8, which caught Piyu by surprise. In addition, all the other teams are solid and strong in the current SMOU meta. It's a bit unfair that out of all the teams brought in this SPL, you chose the player who brought the most solid ones to judge. It really just seems like a lack of knowledge of the SMOU generation; we're not in 2017 anymore.


"Every game comes down to plays, and yesterday's tiebreaker was no different, but ultimately you need to increase your chances by avoiding building a self-sabotaging team."

While I don't think gameplay should be the main focus here, it's worth noting that c0mp had a solid victory until turn 35; after that, he still had excellent chances of winning with a few plays.I didn't build the team, but I actively participated in the TB prep, so I'd like to bring up some points and explain a bit about it.
The initial idea of the team is to actively pressure the opponent with as many hazards as possible to achieve slow progress with our Clefable LO, in addition to pressuring with possible status effects from LavaPlume/Scald/Thunder/Twave, that making more balanced and fat structures to suffer in the long term.

About Weavile, it's about actively pressuring more offensive Pokémon such as Kartana/Mega-Medicham with the Foul Play set, allowing for really higher odds of OHKO. It's also fast enough to outspeed Pokémon like Serperior, which was also a problem for this team, and of course, knock-off/pursuit is indeed necessary. In fact, Weavile, in addition to everything else, is an enabler, a possible RK for potential momentum resets, and is a crucial piece for this team. Weavile was also quite useful in this match btw, as it managed to secure 3 kills.

Another point is the choice of weaknesses. When the team was choosing, the main concern was against TSpikes and Rocks, so initially Latias with Defog was an idea. However, choosing Latias with Defog only leaves you far behind on several occasions losing momentum and you really want to keep the spikes and rocks on the opponent's side, in addition to being vulnerable against Reuniclus without roar (that got bring) which was also a concern, turning each turn into a mindplay, and we didn't want that. Saying team it's bad just because of the lack of a removal + Weavile seems, again, like a lack of knowledge about current meta.

Hopefully soon we gonna see a Proftreez post about this team more indepth

"So this is a message to the cryonicles to heed my warning and stop building literal dogshit."

Okay, this is the most intriguing part of the whole post: your player brought terrible teams throughout the tournament with equally terrible gimmicks such as Scarf Hoopa, Work Up Greninja, Defog Chary with double 2x rocks weak Pokémon also even the weakness he had throughout the entire season against any decent Sun in this world.
Not to mention the teams themselves, like Frosslass H.O. the fucking SUN without Water resist, or even the Empo sand, but without the FUCKING SAND LOL.
Didn't anyone warn him?...

But sure, maybe we do a post later when SPL ends talking a bit about the teams, thats it.
 
Brandonlee1 said:
Okay, good predictions, but I think c0mp deserves a defense (tbh he dont after this fucking game) over the attack regarding team choices, so starting with



That's just a lie. None of the teams brought by c0mp, except for the standard rain team, are actually a sample.More than that, c0mp is the player who brought the BEST SMOU teams this SPL. He also brought innovations thats not a fucking nonsense fish, such as his WOW Zard Y used in W8, which caught Piyu by surprise. In addition, all the other teams are solid and strong in the current SMOU meta. It's a bit unfair that out of all the teams brought in this SPL, you chose the player who brought the most solid ones to judge. It really just seems like a lack of knowledge of the SMOU generation; we're not in 2017 anymore.


"Every game comes down to plays, and yesterday's tiebreaker was no different, but ultimately you need to increase your chances by avoiding building a self-sabotaging team."

While I don't think gameplay should be the main focus here, it's worth noting that c0mp had a solid victory until turn 35; after that, he still had excellent chances of winning with a few plays.I didn't build the team, but I actively participated in the TB prep, so I'd like to bring up some points and explain a bit about it.
The initial idea of the team is to actively pressure the opponent with as many hazards as possible to achieve slow progress with our Clefable LO, in addition to pressuring with possible status effects from LavaPlume/Scald/Thunder/Twave, that making more balanced and fat structures to suffer in the long term.

About Weavile, it's about actively pressuring more offensive Pokémon such as Kartana/Mega-Medicham with the Foul Play set, allowing for really higher odds of OHKO. It's also fast enough to outspeed Pokémon like Serperior, which was also a problem for this team, and of course, knock-off/pursuit is indeed necessary. In fact, Weavile, in addition to everything else, is an enabler, a possible RK for potential momentum resets, and is a crucial piece for this team. Weavile was also quite useful in this match btw, as it managed to secure 3 kills.

Another point is the choice of weaknesses. When the team was choosing, the main concern was against TSpikes and Rocks, so initially Latias with Defog was an idea. However, choosing Latias with Defog only leaves you far behind on several occasions losing momentum and you really want to keep the spikes and rocks on the opponent's side, in addition to being vulnerable against Reuniclus without roar (that got bring) which was also a concern, turning each turn into a mindplay, and we didn't want that. Saying team it's bad just because of the lack of a removal + Weavile seems, again, like a lack of knowledge about current meta.

Hopefully soon we gonna see a Proftreez post about this team more indepth

"So this is a message to the cryonicles to heed my warning and stop building literal dogshit."

Okay, this is the most intriguing part of the whole post: your player brought terrible teams throughout the tournament with equally terrible gimmicks such as Scarf Hoopa, Work Up Greninja, Defog Chary with double 2x rocks weak Pokémon also even the weakness he had throughout the entire season against any decent Sun in this world.
Not to mention the teams themselves, like Frosslass H.O. the fucking SUN without Water resist, or even the Empo sand, but without the FUCKING SAND LOL.
Didn't anyone warn him?...

But sure, maybe we do a post later when SPL ends talking a bit about the teams, thats it.
Click to expand...
lb-trauma-triggers-2020-words-1.jpg
 
Brandonlee1 said:
Okay, good predictions, but I think c0mp deserves a defense (tbh he dont after this fucking game) over the attack regarding team choices, so starting with



That's just a lie. None of the teams brought by c0mp, except for the standard rain team, are actually a sample.More than that, c0mp is the player who brought the BEST SMOU teams this SPL. He also brought innovations thats not a fucking nonsense fish, such as his WOW Zard Y used in W8, which caught Piyu by surprise. In addition, all the other teams are solid and strong in the current SMOU meta. It's a bit unfair that out of all the teams brought in this SPL, you chose the player who brought the most solid ones to judge. It really just seems like a lack of knowledge of the SMOU generation; we're not in 2017 anymore.


"Every game comes down to plays, and yesterday's tiebreaker was no different, but ultimately you need to increase your chances by avoiding building a self-sabotaging team."

While I don't think gameplay should be the main focus here, it's worth noting that c0mp had a solid victory until turn 35; after that, he still had excellent chances of winning with a few plays.I didn't build the team, but I actively participated in the TB prep, so I'd like to bring up some points and explain a bit about it.
The initial idea of the team is to actively pressure the opponent with as many hazards as possible to achieve slow progress with our Clefable LO, in addition to pressuring with possible status effects from LavaPlume/Scald/Thunder/Twave, that making more balanced and fat structures to suffer in the long term.

About Weavile, it's about actively pressuring more offensive Pokémon such as Kartana/Mega-Medicham with the Foul Play set, allowing for really higher odds of OHKO. It's also fast enough to outspeed Pokémon like Serperior, which was also a problem for this team, and of course, knock-off/pursuit is indeed necessary. In fact, Weavile, in addition to everything else, is an enabler, a possible RK for potential momentum resets, and is a crucial piece for this team. Weavile was also quite useful in this match btw, as it managed to secure 3 kills.

Another point is the choice of weaknesses. When the team was choosing, the main concern was against TSpikes and Rocks, so initially Latias with Defog was an idea. However, choosing Latias with Defog only leaves you far behind on several occasions losing momentum and you really want to keep the spikes and rocks on the opponent's side, in addition to being vulnerable against Reuniclus without roar (that got bring) which was also a concern, turning each turn into a mindplay, and we didn't want that. Saying team it's bad just because of the lack of a removal + Weavile seems, again, like a lack of knowledge about current meta.

Hopefully soon we gonna see a Proftreez post about this team more indepth

"So this is a message to the cryonicles to heed my warning and stop building literal dogshit."

Okay, this is the most intriguing part of the whole post: your player brought terrible teams throughout the tournament with equally terrible gimmicks such as Scarf Hoopa, Work Up Greninja, Defog Chary with double 2x rocks weak Pokémon also even the weakness he had throughout the entire season against any decent Sun in this world.
Not to mention the teams themselves, like Frosslass H.O. the fucking SUN without Water resist, or even the Empo sand, but without the FUCKING SAND LOL.
Didn't anyone warn him?...

But sure, maybe we do a post later when SPL ends talking a bit about the teams, thats it.
Click to expand...
I’m not here to start dogpiling so I’m making the boss call that my response will be the ONLY response to your post from now on.

I actually respect how much you’re defending your bro and, obviously more important to you, your part in the prep.

That being said, anyone can confirm that CB Weavile on a bulky team with absolutely zero hazard control is just Bad. Especially when the team is so dependent on it to stop Psychic types. You can disagree with that and of course have your own opinion, but there is no reason to get this upset over a prediction and basic understanding of SM and its lack of Heavy Duty Booties.

What you should concentrate your energy towards is supporting your bro in winning Finals then talking all the shit you want (or letting him cuz he’s the player that makes the final call lol).

Also, Vert is an innovator and his teams were a breath of fresh air that obviously worked very well too. Very unnecessary addition to an already extremely salty post.

Anyways, just wanted to add c0mp vs Gama is a pretty cool matchup cuz Gama is often known to bring stuff people hate or think is fishy, so you can see a clear clash of ideology between c0mp’s bros and Gama’s desire to flex and bring sheist mons.

GL to both teams and hopefully it’s a clean one (hahahahhaha clean)
 
gonna be sidestepping the boss call bc i do have a few things i wanna say too:

i have to concur that i think the team was not a great one. if you think "cb weav got 3 kills!!!" is a meaningful statement in support of this team being good, i urge you to rewatch that replay and reconsider your stance. it doesnt make sense to me to endorse creative teambuilding that takes risks in the builder while also doing the most surface-level commentary without really understanding the game state. i dont want to dogpile so ill stop here but im happy to talk about it more privately

more importantly, i strongly strongly disagree with the criticism of vert's brings and this kind of points to a fundamental misunderstanding of bo1 and the prep involved. you state in your post that there needs to be risks taken in the builder - choice of weakness as you put it, and obviously the degree of risk that a player is willing to take varies from player to player. thats why we see players bringing insane stuff that would never work beyond a bo1 setting, it keeps the tier fresh and exciting otherwise every sm game would just be sand and sun and whatever style is flavor of the month. i think thats a disservice to the beauty and variety present in the sm metagame and im not sure why we are simultaneously pushing for creativity and metagame development while criticizing creativity and metagame development. im also a big believer in "if it works, it works" and thats exactly what we saw in those games! the froslass got a turn 1 ko, greninja did some stuff too, and clearly the zardy lele team was selected knowing some sort of stall is coming (with lucha to fix up the speed issue which was p cool imo). even the team in question, the one that comp brought had some cool ideas and probably wouldve won had the plays gone a bit differently or the intended match up was landed. to summarize, i understand why ppl bring seemingly suboptimal teams in bo1 and i think the degree to which you're willing to risk match up vs other common threats really depend on how comfortable you are taking that risk; i dont think it says anything about an understanding of the sm metagame. of course there is room to criticize but it should be done within context, and i think a lot of context is missing in your post.

all that being said, im hoping for some exciting games and cool brings :heart:. go cryos and GL comp
 
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