Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [ survey results -- see post 21,221 ]

MC Squared said:
What I really want to see are unban suspect tests of some D Rank Ubers Pokémon, like Solgaleo and Shaymin-Sky. I don't think Shaymin with 60% flinch Air Slashes are an issue anymore in 2026 when other flinch spammers like Jirachi are in RU. We should consider looking into it. Also the Solgaleo side ladder proved that it's not broken in OU. It has a lot of sets but none have been overbearing for the tier.
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Nevermind that the tier is already packed to the brim with high profile and versatile threats that stretch building a lot (and thus, the last thing we need are more of them), that's not why unbans happen. We don't unban stuff because they're unviable in Ubers.

There is a universe of difference between Jirachi and Shaymin-Sky when it comes to flinch abuse btw. It's far more toxic and degenerate, and unbalanced and will never ever be healthy or balanced for any OU tier.
 
Skymin isn't banned cause of flinch.

Its banned because of sub seed that makes it very difficult to break past before it breaks past you with -3 special defense serene grace seed flares.

There's literally nothing stall can do against that since even unaware is aware -3 spdef is rough and flinch or not its difficult tanking air slashes after 1 drop (which the move has a 40% drop chance without serene grace)

I'mma be real if skymin was just another air slash flincher no one would care since its very easy to revenge kill... but the fact it drops -3s so consistently and can just hide behind a sub until it gets it is what makes it borderline impossible to switch in on and take out without heavy causalities, you'd have to come up with a special wall that can survive skymin even at -6 and one just doesn't really exist on stall since status effects behind a sub isn't an option.
 
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Cuddly said:
Since it is the dawn of the final day before Pokemon Champions, will SV OU be the main OU, or will Champions take over while SV becomes an old gen OU?
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We don't yet know if 6v6 is possible. If it's not any 6v6 created with champions features is sadly officially fanfic and will not be popular if supported by smogon at all. In which case I assume SV will remain most popular and the official current meta.

I'm hoping we get 6v6 but if not hopefully this tera blast suspect ive been whining about for years finally comes

High stakes week for me
 
CodeFour said:
We don't yet know if 6v6 is possible. If it's not any 6v6 created with champions features is sadly officially fanfic and will not be popular if supported by smogon at all. In which case I assume SV will remain most popular and the official current meta.

I'm hoping we get 6v6 but if not hopefully this tera blast suspect ive been whining about for years finally comes

High stakes week for me
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SS OU is also not playable on (unmodded) cart due to the in game timer (SM and SV also have timers, though they are 1 hour instead of 20 minutes). All Smogon tiers are "officially fanfic", the only official tiers are VGC and BSS. We selectively choose to enforce cart accuracy where it suits us, and there is no reason why the same shouldn't be done with Champions, even if it doesn't initially feature a 6v6 mode.

Regardless of what happens with Champions, there is still plenty of time for tiering action. SV OU is in an okay spot, but that doesn't mean we should avoid trying to improve it. I would prefer retests before a tera blast ban, but the order isn't particularly important.
 
RoyalDispenser said:
Skymin isn't banned cause of flinch.

Its banned because of sub seed that makes it very difficult to break past before it breaks past you with -3 special defense serene grace seed flares.

There's literally nothing stall can do against that since even unaware is aware -3 spdef is rough and flinch or not its difficult tanking air slashes after 1 drop (which the move has a 40% drop chance without serene grace)

I'mma be real if skymin was just another air slash flincher no one would care since its very easy to revenge kill... but the fact it drops -3s so consistently and can just hide behind a sub until it gets it is what makes it borderline impossible to switch in on and take out without heavy causalities, you'd have to come up with a special wall that can survive skymin even at -6 and one just doesn't really exist on stall since status effects behind a sub isn't an option.
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Seed Flare is -2, not -3, but yeah this is pretty much why it should stay banned. Between Seed Flare and Air Slash it's able to muscle past basically anything, and it has coverage for stuff like Heatran on top of that.
 
MC Squared said:
I've been unable to post in the Policy Review thread about the SV OU tier discussion (Smogon please give us non-badge accounts the ability to post in those threads) so I'll post it here:

I noticed that all the people clamouring for a Tera Blast ban are tournament players and few ladder players. Clearly there's a divide between the playerbase on what needs to be done with the move. Every single survey that's happened where everyone can voice their opinion, Tera Blast always failed to reach 3/5 which would make the council consider suspect testing it. It shows that ladder players don't see it as broken while tournament players do.

So now we have to ask this question, what should we prioritize, the tournaments that only happen sporadically, or ladders that are consistently happening?

What I really want to see are unban suspect tests of some D Rank Ubers Pokémon, like Solgaleo and Shaymin-Sky. I don't think Shaymin with 60% flinch Air Slashes are an issue anymore in 2026 when other flinch spammers like Jirachi are in RU. We should consider looking into it. Also the Solgaleo side ladder proved that it's not broken in OU. It has a lot of sets but none have been overbearing for the tier.
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The playerbase is genuinely divided on this topic. Yous see for tournament players its at the most a BO3 so there's at least a 95% guarantee that they will not play the same team with the same mons with tera blast and the same tera. Hence, it becomes harder for them to predict which mons are gonna use tera blast and what teras they have. So it becomes harder for them to play. However, in the ladders players cases they can play the same team a multiple number of times and so they will know about the tera and which pokemon has tera blast. This makes it significantly easier for them to play compared to the tours players. In ladder games people most often use popular teams to which everybody has access to and hence they dont find tera blast annoying to deal with.

Now will they ban tera blast? IDk. But one thing for sure is that up until now in all generations of mons whatever mon, item, moves, and mechanic have had the case where they have been banned only when majority of the people voting for their ban had been the ladders players(if im incorrect pls correct me). So i dont think that the higher ups will start a suspect test for tblast ban any time soon though.



Coming to the point of unbanning D rank Ubers, I completely agree with that fact. These D rank Ubers like Skymin and Solgaleo are not genuinely a threat in my opinon. Solgaleo is only a threat once it starts to set up and that can be prevented by either phasing it out with popular phasers like Ting Lu and Moltres. Moreover Solgaleo can be affected by taunt as well so it can be shut down in a pinch and its not too fast as well. Coming to Skymin, at the beginning of the unban people might struggle to adapt to it but eventually it can be shut down too. Skymin at max speed hits 388 speed which is still slower than popular threats like Zamazenta and Dragapult. Theres also a lot of pokemons like gholdengo which run scarf often along with the speed booster paradoz pokemons like iron valiant and iron moth that threaten Skymin a lot. Yes, it can run a Choice Scarf set to boost its speed to 582 but that means it becomes Stealth Rocks weak and from there prioroty moves like sucker punch and thunder clap from Raging Bolt and Kingambit can get easy pickings and for a pokemon like dragonite 2 extreme speeds get an easy KO anyways. So im definitely in the favor of unbanning the D rank Ubers pokemons as well
 
Karxrida said:
Seed Flare is -2, not -3, but yeah this is pretty much why it should stay banned. Between Seed Flare and Air Slash it's able to muscle past basically anything, and it has coverage for stuff like Heatran on top of that.
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As someone who has spammed land forme shaymin in low tiers I assure you seed flare is an incredibly unreliable move. It's a fake wallbreaking move because it misses so often, yet you want to spam it so Shaymin can take out enemy cores via inducing -2 special defense drops, but between its 8PP and 85% accuracy, you can't rely on it as your main breaker and I have had to use stuff like Arcanine/Tauros formes and Clawitzer for the main job. So when Shaymin-S uses Seed Flare, the number to look at for the drop is about two thirds, not 80%.

Also, Shaymin can't always fit Earth Power given that it needs a healing move and really wants coverage between stuff like Dazzling Gleam, Tera Blast, and Air Slash.

Do what you want with Shaymin-S and I'm not endorsing any unbans here but I had to give my input on Seed Flare.
 
I kind of figured there'd be a decision already on whether SV OU continues or we move to champions OU. considering they do have BSS there is a precedent for single battles in champions meta.
 
tommytt22 said:
I kind of figured there'd be a decision already on whether SV OU continues or we move to champions OU. considering they do have BSS there is a precedent for single battles in champions meta.
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Considering there's now a new, separate forum for Champions, and we're still here, I assume this means Champions will be a separate format.
 
tommytt22 said:
I kind of figured there'd be a decision already on whether SV OU continues or we move to champions OU. considering they do have BSS there is a precedent for single battles in champions meta.
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Adding onto what Faya said, you cannot actually do 6v6 battles in Champions, so the decision was kinda made for us. 3v3 is a pretty radical change to how normal smogon tiers work so that would be a no go.
 
Heatranator said:
Adding onto what Faya said, you cannot actually do 6v6 battles in Champions, so the decision was kinda made for us. 3v3 is a pretty radical change to how normal smogon tiers work so that would be a no go.
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You can't ban sleep from working on cart either but that never stopped us. I just think it's a shame we won't have new megas in 6v6 since gen 10 will likely have no megas and use a new mechanic
 
MC Squared said:
I've been unable to post in the Policy Review thread about the SV OU tier discussion (Smogon please give us non-badge accounts the ability to post in those threads) so I'll post it here:

I noticed that all the people clamouring for a Tera Blast ban are tournament players and few ladder players. Clearly there's a divide between the playerbase on what needs to be done with the move. Every single survey that's happened where everyone can voice their opinion, Tera Blast always failed to reach 3/5 which would make the council consider suspect testing it. It shows that ladder players don't see it as broken while tournament players do.

So now we have to ask this question, what should we prioritize, the tournaments that only happen sporadically, or ladders that are consistently happening?

What I really want to see are unban suspect tests of some D Rank Ubers Pokémon, like Solgaleo and Shaymin-Sky. I don't think Shaymin with 60% flinch Air Slashes are an issue anymore in 2026 when other flinch spammers like Jirachi are in RU. We should consider looking into it. Also the Solgaleo side ladder proved that it's not broken in OU. It has a lot of sets but none have been overbearing for the tier.
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Mod note: enough about skymin

And on Tera blast, that’s exactly the problem we are trying to tackle down, the indecisiveness in decision making on what’s best for the tier. If prominent tournament players and council members voice their opinions more we can actually have support for Tera blast action. It’s also far beyond if it’s broken or not. The main problem with Tera blast is that it’s hindering skill expression and making the tier less competitive, so why not just take action if we want to bring change to SV OU.
 
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Hey it's me again

Raging Bolt @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderclap
- Tera Blast
- Zap Cannon
- Rising Voltage

Words cannot express how much fun I've had using this thing. Blunder Policy makes using Zap Cannon a win-win scenario, as you'll either double your speed or severely cripple your opponent. Tera Blast Ice deletes Ground types, but you could opt for Tera Fairy and boost your defenses while still hitting Great Tusk and Ting Lu. The only downside is that it's super reliant on electric terrain, so keeping your Pincurchin alive is a top priority. (credit to ouelite for the set)

Vaporeon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 176 HP / 80 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Ice Beam
- Alluring Voice

A fun little special wall that can take on offensive Heatran, Walking Wake, Kyurem, etc with relative ease. It doesn't need to Tera since Water is already good defensively, but Tera Steel could work due to its resistances and the ability to bait in Fire and Fighting types. A mere 60 Defense means that it's scared out by most of the tier's physical attackers, so a physical wall is required to Vaporeon to perform well.

Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Scorching Sands
- Focus Blast

A glass cannon Moltres that hits extremely hard in the sun. Solar Power + Choice Specs effectively doubles its damage output, and it boasts the coverage to hit a whopping 13 types for super effective damage. Tera Fire further amplifies Flamethrower's damage, but it could run Tera Ground since it has the coverage to handle its weaknesses. Using Choice Specs comes at the cost of not using Heavy Duty Boots, so if you can't get rocks out of the way you're basically dead.
 
arca9. said:
Hey it's me again

Raging Bolt @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderclap
- Tera Blast
- Zap Cannon
- Rising Voltage

Words cannot express how much fun I've had using this thing. Blunder Policy makes using Zap Cannon a win-win scenario, as you'll either double your speed or severely cripple your opponent. Tera Blast Ice deletes Ground types, but you could opt for Tera Fairy and boost your defenses while still hitting Great Tusk and Ting Lu. The only downside is that it's super reliant on electric terrain, so keeping your Pincurchin alive is a top priority. (credit to ouelite for the set)

Vaporeon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 176 HP / 80 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Ice Beam
- Alluring Voice

A fun little special wall that can take on offensive Heatran, Walking Wake, Kyurem, etc with relative ease. It doesn't need to Tera since Water is already good defensively, but Tera Steel could work due to its resistances and the ability to bait in Fire and Fighting types. A mere 60 Defense means that it's scared out by most of the tier's physical attackers, so a physical wall is required to Vaporeon to perform well.

Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Scorching Sands
- Focus Blast

A glass cannon Moltres that hits extremely hard in the sun. Solar Power + Choice Specs effectively doubles its damage output, and it boasts the coverage to hit a whopping 13 types for super effective damage. Tera Fire further amplifies Flamethrower's damage, but it could run Tera Ground since it has the coverage to handle its weaknesses. Using Choice Specs comes at the cost of not using Heavy Duty Boots, so if you can't get rocks out of the way you're basically dead.
Click to expand...
I ran blunder policy zap cannon raging bolt as a meme in last years olt. I had a replay on clipping someone with it but unfortunately they pussied and hid the replay.

But it’s kinda ass ngl because the one time you want to miss zap cannon on a tusk switch in is when you actually hit zap cannon.
 
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