HazardStack is gonna be beyond broken here thanks to Gholdenjoe, no boots, and nothing getting Spin or Defog anymore. Glory to big Spike Stack
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Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
Goldengo is not in the list of available pokemon
Oh wait, yea. I guess the meta will be very Gen 6-esque then.
If no boots exist, then thank goodness for this.
I think mega chesnaught might be one of the strongest defensive presences we have in this tier
It should be able to keep monsters like mega excadrill as well as a lot of other demons in line and be a great answer for mons like gambit who may struggle to break through it
Also I think it's possible 6v6 gets added for private battles later since lots of features like items and pokemon aren't in yet in champions natively
It should be able to keep monsters like mega excadrill as well as a lot of other demons in line and be a great answer for mons like gambit who may struggle to break through it
Also I think it's possible 6v6 gets added for private battles later since lots of features like items and pokemon aren't in yet in champions natively
agreed
Y'all, do you think Mega Scovillain has a role on Stall or bulk teams? Despite having to use Rest for recovery and having ass bulk, its ability is beyond broken for punishing physical attackers. Physical wallbreakers could be made irrelevant just by touching M-Scovillain
I don't think many will be interested in playing this if it's just BSS with a ban list. That would leave no reason to not just download Champions and play it as it is, since teambuilding isn't even a hurdle anymore like it was for mainline. I'm all for a Pick Six Mod. We have had mods for all gens up until now, from freeze and sleep mods, to the timer, to sandstorm damage applying to the faster mon and different deoxys forms in a single cartridge in gen 3. Gen 1 OU is pretty much a fantasy meta with all the differences from cartridge it arbitrarily has.
I think cartridge accuracy should be followed as a baseline but not dogma. Sure, let's try Item Clause and maybe even the timer adjustment (even though it won't be 1:1 due to animation length), but let's do it because it's a different meta and there's no reason to port rules from previous metagames. Otherwise, there's little room for anything that's not BSS with bans and usage tiers and at this point most players will simply stick with BSS because the official meta will trend towards being the most competitive.
And as said, even with the simulator having its own rules, it's definitely possible private battles get updated later to have 6v6 and the option to disable item clause since champs is lacking features from previous games anyway at the moment
But yeah showdown has always had its own sort of rules while staying as cartridge accurate as it can but making it fun, since that is the ultimate goal here. We wanna have fun playing singles
the way i am reading this whole thing is mass fomo bc the new thing dropped and it looks like OU might suck for a bit bc its a live service game, and wanting to make the rash decision of basically turning this into a petmod, and in that case natdex does the job but better
in general this whole situation feels like everybody got caught with their pants down + desperacy to make this into a replacement for SV OU which people are tired of (even if they like it), and no decision like removing a mechanic of the game should be made this early on, at all, before a ladder even exists
this is the new hub for competitive pokemon and will probably be dripfeeding new stuff for a long ass time, if people are expecting a normal OU that just has the new content then this just isn't gonna be that at least for a while
when you play the game you really recognize that they have balanced the first season around making it easy for newcomers to get into the game
i still think 6v6 should be done even if that technically is petmod material, but i see that as the bare minimum like how we ignored timer, but we still kept tiering with mechanics that suck like freeze/sleep and didn't just mod shit out
and ftr i dont even think this necessarily will be as bad as people seem to think, really all you are losing is running multiple lefties because there really aren't many items worth running on several pokemon
Mind you if Gholdengo was legal it would be extremely broken not only because of no hdb but also because it wasn't significantly nerfed (besides the loss of tera but that applies to everything). It can still run choice scarf just like normal and shuca berry is not that much worse than air balloon (which was also removed).
As long as it's 6v6 this will be already be a pet mod. If you don't like that, go play BSS
I think accepting a few of the usual smogon OU changes like 6v6 and multiple items could be fine, just call the format a petmod like za (which isnt an insult, some people seem to think calling a format a petmod is an insult when is just another section of the site like any other). Just dont do any changes that arent part of the usual OU, later we can have mashups for stuff like nd as we already do for other formats.
No one gets hurt if we let BSS and the petmod version exists at the same time, and future gens may be played in Champions with the direction gamefreak is taking and this could be the only way to keep the old playstyle alive.
And just saying 6v6 is fine but no other changes is already worsing a bad precedent, better to just standardize classic OU rules as a petmod, just picking a rule and then saying no to other with no real justification that cant be applied to anything else is just wrong.
No one gets hurt if we let BSS and the petmod version exists at the same time, and future gens may be played in Champions with the direction gamefreak is taking and this could be the only way to keep the old playstyle alive.
And just saying 6v6 is fine but no other changes is already worsing a bad precedent, better to just standardize classic OU rules as a petmod, just picking a rule and then saying no to other with no real justification that cant be applied to anything else is just wrong.
I can respect admitting that the ruleset is going to be essentially petmod but again there is no true stop to what you can mod into the game/sim. I guarantee after "remove item clause" its going to be "add in new items" (we already saw this asked for multiple times). Council / other powers that run this tier really need to nip this discussion in the bud quick and establish some identity/policy structure.
I think people are a bit over concerned about hazard control. There are 3 viable magic bouncers, Scizor has regained Roost alongside Defog, Conk also has Defog. Corviknight is still a premiere option. Excadrill is still a great base form spinner even if his mega won’t see action. Quaq and Starmie (base or mega) are other viable spinners. There’s also both forms of Glimmora that are generally fine to slot Mortal Spin. Niche options like M Altaria, Decidueye, and Hawlucha are there too.
Overall there are enough viable hazard control options. I think the lack of boots makes people nervous but there’s enough variety for control options to make something fit with almost any team build.
Slippery slope justification does not apply here when item clause is something that has NEVER been true of 6v6 singles formats before, while item variety has varied from game to game, and arguing to add new items that aren't in Champions would therefore be a significantly different logical leap
Personally I think item clause is worth a try.
There's no real difference in drawing the line at "only 6v6" and "only 6v6 with item clause" depending on what the community/council want. Either way you're still technically not being totally accurate. Personally I think we should keep item clause, since it seems like a big feature of the original game and I don't think it would be all that negative to do so, as well as its rather early to rule it out completely as an option.
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First off all of the magic bounce mons are beaten by Excadrill. They will still have a niche I am sure but Excadrill being this good (in theory) will limit how well they can do their jobs.
Second off, SCIZOR GOT ROOST BACK!!!!!!!!!!! RARE CHAMPIONS W
Third off Conkeldurr is not going to be a viable defogger imo.
Other than that, you make a good point. There are a lot of hazard control options. No boots does make a lot of mons lives harder though.
Feels like a lot of people desperate about HDB missing haven't played anything before gen 8 hahahaha. Gen 6 OU has less hazard control options and it's a fine metagame. Talonflame, Charizard, and Volcarona are all staples there.
People have asked and will ask for stuff regardless, for any game, ever. I don't point this out as a good thing but, a lot of competitive gaming culture is asking for buffs and nerfs and reworks in the next patch/iteration of a given game. We even have Smogon metagames with some complex bans and even they will not introduce new complex bans that people have been asking for more than a decade.
If we use this logic then aspects such as Freeze Clause Mod, Sleep Clause Mod, Switch Priority Clause Mod, etc are fair game surely. Not that its inherently bad to implement but just making sure what options are open to be modded in.
I don't see an issue with those aspects for sure, there would have to be a more dedicated discussion to it than what I can give right now but as long as there aren't new modifications being made to compensate in any way for champions that have not been standard through most official smogon iterations I don't see the problem
Please stop condemning Item Close in 6v6 without even trying it.
Let's let practice speak for itself, instead of theory. Let's at least give Item Close a chance, despite the limited number of items available.
Let's let practice speak for itself, instead of theory. Let's at least give Item Close a chance, despite the limited number of items available.
It really comes down to where we as a community want to draw the line. We decided to have a 6v6 mod to have the ou we know and love, but that's where modding precedent begins. Imo we should just draw the line there, and maybe try out the item clause thing. Not only does it have a justification with champions only having one of each item, it'll most likely become much less of a problem later down the line as more get added in.
And tbh breaking without choice items sounds tedious af I kinda like the idea of fat teams not having multiple lefties.
And tbh breaking without choice items sounds tedious af I kinda like the idea of fat teams not having multiple lefties.