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LC ADV Little Cup
- Thread starter rineko
- Start date
ADV LC Tournament: Lead Me Baby, signups now live!
Yo wagwan, in order to further prepare the metagame for future individual and team tournaments, our fellow council member, Shing, is hosting a single-elimination ADV LC tournament with what's currently a $50 dollar prize pool for the top 2 finishing players. If you been marved for some ADV LC as of late, be sure to sign up. Signups close on 15th February, at 23:59 EST (04:59 UTC).
Yo wagwan, in order to further prepare the metagame for future individual and team tournaments, our fellow council member, Shing, is hosting a single-elimination ADV LC tournament with what's currently a $50 dollar prize pool for the top 2 finishing players. If you been marved for some ADV LC as of late, be sure to sign up. Signups close on 15th February, at 23:59 EST (04:59 UTC).
Just wanted to collect some of my impressions on the current meta after ADV LC Open II and the current greedy invitational, since I've been actively investing time and developing the meta by visualizing it in my head, playing, and helping other people in the tournament(you can argue most teams rn is me and evaki since we post it public or help others) since people ask me and I don't really say no. Before I tell you my meta takes on the general meta, I'll share my "principles" that I always try to live by, which may hurt me. Still, I think they can be helpful for any inexperienced players who struggle to understand how to design a well-made team, or don't have the intuition of the tier.
"Mandatory" for nearly all solid teams
Two physical defensive mons that can tank hits from CB Doduo, GUARANTEED or 6.3% at worst - Having this on your team makes you have strong management vs Doduo, and other physical attackers. This is extremely relevant for teams that bring slow mons like Cacnea, or any 16-17 Speed tier mons such as Chinchou and Houndour. Not respecting this puts you at a heavy disadvantage vs Doduo itself, especially if you have 17 speed mons behind the preview.
Along with that, always have at least two to three Pokémon within the 18-20 speed tier - For me, this has proven to be the most consistent way to include in any solid teams. Last time I broke that rule was vs Reggg at ADVPL 2025, and it created so many problems for me that running only one 18-20 mon will put you at a disadvantage in very unfavourable positions.
Trapping is almost mandatory, and
These two key rules I've implemented are still relevant to this day. There's an argument on "two physdef mons" that it can be challenged upon, as I lost to only one Doduo check vs Jake at the Greedy tournament. But for me, you're most likely forced to bring fast leads(preferably faster than 18) or a physical lead that threatens Doduo in t1. Otherwise, for most players, just stick to two physdef mons to get a good team. As for 18-20 speed mons mandatory, you can try to break it, but speed is still the best and most consistent way to keep things in check offensively and defensively. Trying to ignore this rule will be noticeable in the game, especially in mid-game and endgame positions. Not worth your time for most playstyles, maybe for these straightforward structures like screen support into setup mons, like what Heysup has done...?
"What was 'near mandatory' in Diglett meta, or what it used to be
"SpDef Wailmer is mandatory or should always be used" - Diglett removed the fast water mons, making it extremely difficult to switch in against Water Spout, and therefore SpDef Wailmer became the norm of any teams. With Diglett gone, this nerfed Wailmer, and I'd argue Wailmer is not necessary to use for any teams, but still a solid Pokémon due to its insane bulk and vast tools to approach the tier. What's kinda feels necessary is to include a water type with some spdef investment to avoid dying to hp grass right after, although I've done my fair share of bringing non-water teams, but you will have a struggle vs teams that tears aparts Lileep and randomly face rain and get cooked by Horsea lol.
"Always use a trapper" - Trapping was just so good in dig meta. Either Diglett will be the frail Pokémon, or Trapinch will remove Diglett to enable mons that would auto lose vs Diglett. Nowadays, Trapinch has its awkward use in the meta. It's still a must to take into account, but using it on every team isn't necessary for the mon, making trapping not mandatory. Should be prepared for teams that bring two mons that's trappable to Trapinch, but structured in a way that Trapinch can only take one of them.
Then what do I think is mandatory out of this? The only thing I can think of right now in any position is to prepare vs Abra at any point in the game. To make it short, Abra doesn't have a singular counter(if you ignore unranked Poochyena), and generally, vs Abra, you want to have two to even three mons to keep any eye on it. Abra is a Pokémon that can respond to all of its checks in theory. Barrier for physical attackers, Hidden Power Water for Houndour, Tpunch for Carvanha, Fire Punch for Exeggcute and Magnemite, HP Dark vs Duskull and opposing Abra, etc. The underlying problem is that Abra can't fit all of them at once, and Abra's best strategy is to have a team that's built to remove the weakness of their set. The stress part is that it's extremely hard to pinpoint what Abra can be, especially in a new meta like this. The most common sets are now CM / Barrier / Psychic / Thief and CM / Psychic / Thief / Hidden Power Water, but Abra has a lot of untapped sets it can use to mess up its targets, like having all attack with spikes to cover against the less common mons or smth like CM / Barrier / Psychic / Hidden Power Water for teams that has Houndour and Snubbull together. This does make Abra become a more expressive Pokémon to create progress since it creates immediate conditions whenever it appears in the field. The debate is whether Abra's coverage is too much or not, and for me, it's just in a very gray area. Either way, this should be prepared for any teams, especially in later games, because that's where it can reverse any teams if unprepared, and IMO bringing two cores is the best way to respond against Abra.
This post is getting pretty long, so I'll make a new post tomorrow to not mess with the topics. It will be at a similar time since I'm at a Smash tournament outside of my region this weekend. The next post will consist of my impressions and thoughts on the early, mid, and late game, so be looking forward to it.
"Mandatory" for nearly all solid teams
Two physical defensive mons that can tank hits from CB Doduo, GUARANTEED or 6.3% at worst - Having this on your team makes you have strong management vs Doduo, and other physical attackers. This is extremely relevant for teams that bring slow mons like Cacnea, or any 16-17 Speed tier mons such as Chinchou and Houndour. Not respecting this puts you at a heavy disadvantage vs Doduo itself, especially if you have 17 speed mons behind the preview.
Along with that, always have at least two to three Pokémon within the 18-20 speed tier - For me, this has proven to be the most consistent way to include in any solid teams. Last time I broke that rule was vs Reggg at ADVPL 2025, and it created so many problems for me that running only one 18-20 mon will put you at a disadvantage in very unfavourable positions.
Trapping is almost mandatory, and
These two key rules I've implemented are still relevant to this day. There's an argument on "two physdef mons" that it can be challenged upon, as I lost to only one Doduo check vs Jake at the Greedy tournament. But for me, you're most likely forced to bring fast leads(preferably faster than 18) or a physical lead that threatens Doduo in t1. Otherwise, for most players, just stick to two physdef mons to get a good team. As for 18-20 speed mons mandatory, you can try to break it, but speed is still the best and most consistent way to keep things in check offensively and defensively. Trying to ignore this rule will be noticeable in the game, especially in mid-game and endgame positions. Not worth your time for most playstyles, maybe for these straightforward structures like screen support into setup mons, like what Heysup has done...?
"What was 'near mandatory' in Diglett meta, or what it used to be
"SpDef Wailmer is mandatory or should always be used" - Diglett removed the fast water mons, making it extremely difficult to switch in against Water Spout, and therefore SpDef Wailmer became the norm of any teams. With Diglett gone, this nerfed Wailmer, and I'd argue Wailmer is not necessary to use for any teams, but still a solid Pokémon due to its insane bulk and vast tools to approach the tier. What's kinda feels necessary is to include a water type with some spdef investment to avoid dying to hp grass right after, although I've done my fair share of bringing non-water teams, but you will have a struggle vs teams that tears aparts Lileep and randomly face rain and get cooked by Horsea lol.
"Always use a trapper" - Trapping was just so good in dig meta. Either Diglett will be the frail Pokémon, or Trapinch will remove Diglett to enable mons that would auto lose vs Diglett. Nowadays, Trapinch has its awkward use in the meta. It's still a must to take into account, but using it on every team isn't necessary for the mon, making trapping not mandatory. Should be prepared for teams that bring two mons that's trappable to Trapinch, but structured in a way that Trapinch can only take one of them.
Then what do I think is mandatory out of this? The only thing I can think of right now in any position is to prepare vs Abra at any point in the game. To make it short, Abra doesn't have a singular counter(if you ignore unranked Poochyena), and generally, vs Abra, you want to have two to even three mons to keep any eye on it. Abra is a Pokémon that can respond to all of its checks in theory. Barrier for physical attackers, Hidden Power Water for Houndour, Tpunch for Carvanha, Fire Punch for Exeggcute and Magnemite, HP Dark vs Duskull and opposing Abra, etc. The underlying problem is that Abra can't fit all of them at once, and Abra's best strategy is to have a team that's built to remove the weakness of their set. The stress part is that it's extremely hard to pinpoint what Abra can be, especially in a new meta like this. The most common sets are now CM / Barrier / Psychic / Thief and CM / Psychic / Thief / Hidden Power Water, but Abra has a lot of untapped sets it can use to mess up its targets, like having all attack with spikes to cover against the less common mons or smth like CM / Barrier / Psychic / Hidden Power Water for teams that has Houndour and Snubbull together. This does make Abra become a more expressive Pokémon to create progress since it creates immediate conditions whenever it appears in the field. The debate is whether Abra's coverage is too much or not, and for me, it's just in a very gray area. Either way, this should be prepared for any teams, especially in later games, because that's where it can reverse any teams if unprepared, and IMO bringing two cores is the best way to respond against Abra.
This post is getting pretty long, so I'll make a new post tomorrow to not mess with the topics. It will be at a similar time since I'm at a Smash tournament outside of my region this weekend. The next post will consist of my impressions and thoughts on the early, mid, and late game, so be looking forward to it.
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Lead game / Early game impressions
Leads have always been one of the biggest positions that are always rapidly developing because it's the position that has the most amount of different Pokémon with a viable or at least justified purpose to bring. At this moment, that creativity has been reduced with the optimization of Anorith lead after the Diglett ban. The answer is simple, but let's do a quick recap of how the lead was defined back in Dig Meta.
Wailmer and Snubbull were defining leads that any team has to take into account. While neither of them didn't have the strongest usage on the lead, you'll have to always look at Leads as objectively, where you wanna cover as much as possible, and a lot of the mindset was to take hits while having meaningful sequences/progress where you end up winning. Unlike its counterpart, DPP, the lead can be preserved to be used, or you're able to switch out on t1 lead without feeling like you've lost a heavy amount of momentum. Wailmer and Snubbull were some of the most defining mons due to their centralizing bulk against the whole tier, while having the perfect tools to create progress. When you think about covering the "Offense Leads" the benchmark you'll have in mind is Choice Band Doduo for the physical aspect, and then the Special is Wailmer's Water Spout at full health. Wailmer's bulk made it extremely hard to find the right OHKO move, because even the Electric's Thunderbolt is unable to OHKO Spdef Wailmer guaranteed, or it could tank in CB Doduo, then there's Snubbull, who neutralizes a lot of physical leads, and gatekeeps a lot of fast Special Attackers since he has enough power or tools to threaten and maneuver around them. I personally loved this because it led to players being able to map out their fast leads in turns ahead, or you could bring niche mons that can win interactions vs both those two and other leads, such as mon like Lileep, all according to your structure. I think when it comes to ADV LC leads, you should treat that lead as 6 vs 6 mons like you do in normal tiers with no previews, complementing my knowledge since I play a lot of Gen 4 OU, haha. A more detailed discussion on the lead aspect can be read here, where I think a lot of the concepts there are still very applicable today, or something to have in mind.
However, there's a Pokémon I've yet to mention there, and it's a Pokémon that has been slowly optimized and developed as the staple lead, and the Pokémon is Anorith. The Pokémon has always been noticeable and, to some degree, had to be prepared, but it was often widely unpopular among most ADV LC players, including myself, for a good while, since it tends to lose to Wailmer and Bulk Up Snubbull lead. However, Reggg's introduction on Knock Off Anorith, and especially adding more bulk to Anorith, drastically shook up the whole lead metagame. With Evaki and other players optimized, lead Anorith even further beyond, it became something you'd have to prepare eventually on the lead. It had always an underlying problem, though, and it was very vulnerable to being trapped by CB Diglett, and had an awkward synergy with Trapinch. With Diglett, I've personally pushed this Pokémon to be abused as a lead and even in a lot of teams behind in preview due to its insanely clutch bulk and always forcing progress regardless of whether you like it or not.
Now, why is Anorith so good at its job? There are three major reasons for it.
The first reason is Knock Off. Those who played in Gen 6-8(and some degree Gen 5) need to understand that Knock Off in Gen 3(and 4) acts differently, not necessarily worse than how y'all know it. In Gen 3 / 4, Knock Off only removes the item's effect, not the whole item itself. The item cannot be tricked or stolen as well; you're holding an equivalent of a mail item. Doing that on Sitrus Berry meta itself is insanely valuable in any position, just like imagine every/if not most sitrus mons are like current LC Mienfoo had one-time fully healing move, and you destroy that shit without being able to take the opponent's sitrus ever again. Maybe that would have helped to not get Porygon banned kek.
The second one is that it's a filter mon that destroys many niche and less commonly used Pokémon due to its high base atk and coverage of nearly everything in the tier. Along with Knock Off, this Pokémon responds well to a lot of niches/techs in the tier. It also nerfed the top-tier dog, Snubbull, and that alone shakes the lead meta to a uninmagineable level that took me a lot of time to proceed when developing post-diglett ban.
Third may be less applied, but still important to say, and that it just has that perfect bulk aspect to take hits against the majority of the tier. Bug/Rock is not a bad defensive typing, as it gives you unique resistance with mons and covering the type vs it is difficult bc physical side has to commit to Rock or Steel, and it's only weak to Water type from the Special side. This means you customize your bulk extremely proficiently to your liking. Fortunately for me, Anorith can't have all max speed and perfect bulk at once, but it's very capable of being flexible, and therefore the sets are never defined as long as the meta is developing; the lead set will always change depending on how the meta trends change or the prep if your opponent feels like using Special non-water leads.
Tips for anyone who wants the benchmark: Physical Max Speed Anorith(take into account HP Bug with 2 iv drops) tends to have 156 HP/116 Def with Jolly Nature to tank CB Doduo (without HP Steel), Spdef Invested can have 156 HP / 36 SpDef to survive vs HP Water Abra, or bit more on SpDef to survive vs 156 SpAtk Overheat Ponyta, or you can make yourself 156 HP/ 116 Def / 40 SpDef, but being forced to be 16-17 in speed puts you vulnerable to be speed crept/forced to speed tie by many 16-17 mons, most noticeably Chinchou, Houndour, Onix, Carvanha, etc.
What are the consequences of this?
The lead meta right now is extremely simplified. Anorith for me feels like a staple mon, and perhaps replaced Snubbull as the defining lead, and since Water leads are already staplized because of Wailmer, the meta is essentially defined by Water + Anorith(CB is also a crazy mixup as a lead mind u), as shown in the Greedy tournament, and either you bring a Water lead for potential Anorith lead, or you bring Anorith leads if you think your opponent is trying to be creative. Personally, I've a mixed feelings about this since it hinders the creativity that I liked in the past, but it forces progress and keeps a check on a lot of sub spam shit as well. Ngl, I blame David Watts for making me develop more on Anorith since he's been bringing mad spikes slop vs me, and that shit be disrespectful as shit no cap. Besides, this isn't solved, though, and there are more unique ways I've been thinking of to challenge this aspect, but for now, this is easily the best way to understand the lead metagame at the moment.
Also, there's been a high amount of Abra leads, but that shit is ASS if I wanna be real. It's very easy to prepare as a lead for any of its sets, and I think people should simply stop using Abra leads unless you wanna catch the opponent lacking or the prep gives you a meaningful reason to use it. Any experienced ADV LC players should have their Abra lead covered in check, because it's not that hard even if you have the wrong lead MU like using Koffing and Gastly(Abuse Thief / Roar Snubbull, SpDef Wailmer, HP Ghost Elekid, Houndour if no HP Water, etc)
Mid Game positions, and sequences / aka behind the preview mons
There are too many variables to point out since Diglett ban shook up a lot of dynamics, so what I've said here may not age well or not be as accurate. So I'll just point out the most noticeable thing that I hope everyone should be aware of.
- Anorith is also good at this position as well, making Snubbull have to adjust its strategies to it, or else it's losing in usage.
- Snubbull is nerfed since it loved the Diglett centralization, and a rise in Anorith makes it harder for Snubbull's simplified gameplan. Maybe an argument for not being in S tier anymore?
(!!) - Giving Snubbull conflicting problems also could indirectly buff setuppers that get invalidated by Snubbull, most noticeable DD mons ;)
- Wailmer is NOT MANDATORY in the team anymore, compared to near 100% usage. We don't even know if it's the best water type, as Chinchou got massively buffed from the Diglett ban. A strong Pokémon, but it'll have to make major adaptations in the tier. Maybe an argument for not being in S tier anymore?
- Chinchou is massively buffed, responds well to Electric type, especially hard on Elekid if they don't have HP Grass/Ground. Puts Wailmer in the contest of being the best water type in the metagame, and is just a very good all-around pokemon that is tricky to switch in against bc of its coverage.
- Electrics are obviously buffed as their role isn't only to clean up, but they also have an active role to keep a check against the special attackers in the tier, particularly vs Abra. Elekid specifically loves Diglett ban, but dislikes that it has to be a huge commitment on Hidden Power since you cannot cover Abra and Chinchou at the same time, a very noticeable conflict for any builders.
There are tons of wallbreakers, such as Houndour(check Overheat vs Trapinch dmg), Carvanha, Onix, and many things that were gatekept by Diglett, can have more purposeful use, especially those that don't lose or mind Trapinch's trapping. I'll also mention there may be something that will disrupt Lileep + Snubbull's defensive cores that could be created/reshown from past metagame, such as fighting types, so the "potential" could be massive even if you have to take into account Anorith.
- Abra has to be taken into account in this position as well. But as those who use Abra, it doesn't necessarily need to be CM. It can be all-atk if you have a spikes team, screens setupper, encore to get forceful sequences for your endgame sweeper due to its restriction and easy conditioning, and to some degree can have many niche uses, such as weather and such. My point is that Abra has many unique tools that can give you the sequence you want to have due to its nature in the tier, which makes it a very strong tool overall to be used as preparation vs your team, instead of building around your team support Abra itself.
There's a lot to go through here, but my overall point is that there are a lot of changes to be made. The biggest one I like that I didn't mention isn't a mon thing, but a bit fundamentally one where, with Diglett in the field, you can build your teams with more intent on using switching in and out, which the Diglett heavily restricted and made the game feel very much cover so many interactions as you want. So being able to use that aspect is very lovely, especially when there are a lot of scenarios you wanna preserve these mons, or you're in a very intenseful situations where you have to think ahead. This most likely hurts me as someone who has been adapted to build the tier and cover as many things as possible, but I'm pretty happy to readjust myself to adapt this aspect again. I think this is where things should be developed way more, as mid-game will have a greater influence on the games than feeling so "automatic". Also, I still think Water types are kinda nearly mandatory, mainly because of Anorith, and Rain makes you want to add in at least one Water type to keep those in check.
Late game / End game
- Abra needs to be taken into account. In theory, most,if not every core, Abra has some way to respond, and how it covers is extremely gray as it's extremely dependent on their builds. The most well-known sets that are shown these days are Calm Mind/Psychic/Hidden Power Water/Thief and Calm Mind/Barrier/Psychic/Thief. But Abra can always adjust and respond differently, so that they could bring Barrier + Hidden Power Water to cover Houndour + Snubbull, or Thunder Punch/Fire Punch for Carvanha, Exeggcute, and Magnemite, etc. I do think Abra is extremely manageable, but you're forced to have two Pokémon to secure most Abra sets. Fortunately for me, the core doesn't always feel too specific for Abra as they work naturally vs everything else, so it's not that restricting imo. Abra can be invalidated and be a waste on the team, and therefore see Abra as "potentially can sweep", but if you keep your mons healthy or are able to revenge kill it, then it's not going to progress. Abra can sweep or be hella invalidated with healthy enough strategies IMO.
My favourite ones are Elekid HP Ghost + Snubbull / Houndour, etc. There's also Houndour + Sun Exeggcute if Abra will have a massive dilemma fthat it has the perfect coverage for both of them, Toxic on mons that Abra would set up into Sub 20 mons, Light Screeners vs Abra as well, SpDef Icy Wind + Water Spout vs non-sub Abra or HP Ghost Wailmer, etc. My point is that Abra may not freely sweep, and that the mon + the team has to do work in order to sweep. I was paranoid at first, but eventually I realized there are many different ways to respond to endgame Abra. It's still the biggest thing you have to prepare for, but it's not impossible to stop, and I hope the overall ADV LC community finds their unique ways to cover or not let Abra get opportunities to set up. An argument I had in mind is if it's the best Pokémon, but after doing some self-reflecting, I am not really sure, to be honest. It's probably the best for me because it's the only mon I am confident is in S, even if it goes a bit against what I said a sentence ago.
- Bulk Up Snubbull is still good IMO, but it's not a menace where you can abuse Thief + Bulk anymore because of Anorith's. Mind you tho, Snubbull can respond to Anorith with Hidden Power Steel, which also covers MUs like Lileep and Larvitar, but this does nerf endgame Snubbull and can buff mons like Abra and Bagon, for better or worse eh?
- Potential "setup" Salac Endure, or Agility + berry boosters into sub may actually work????? Anorith's Rock Blast, Roar moves, and Priority can be annoying af, but there's definitely a strong possibility to see it exist here. As a note, Agility mons should have 15 or 14 at worst to avoid a lot of annoying speed ties on the slower side to get guaranteed bulk, but having the ability to outspeed 19 Speed Salacs is usually more preferable though.
- DD mons could also be good again?? I think this is very meta-dependent if I wanna be real. Bagon indirectly gets buffed by Anorith for Snubbull and somewhat Gastly MU, or if Waters doesn't run Ice Beam, and has moves to cover vs Abra like Toxic Chinchou. This is just an observation and something I theorized in the future meta, once we get to that aspect.
- Weather archetype is still extremely good, sun > rain tho. Rain does appreciate the lack of Diglett trapping to some degree, but the rise of Water types, more importance on Lileep, and Electric types makes it awkwardly tricky for Rain to find the right sequences. But accept that weathers typcially takes more time to develop, as they're good as long as the meta allows them to do so. That's why Sun was weak in the Porygon meta because Chloro Mons were getting trolled by Porygon, and insanely strong in Diglett meta since Diglett removed a lot of Oddish's checks, and Oddish just teared apart so many teams that relied on that one mon.
Overall, the general fast Pokémon cleaning against each other is what you'll most commonly see, but there are a lot of "what ifs" that could happen in-game. Just take it with a grain of salt, experiment and test your theories, and IMO enjoy the new, fresh meta that was heavily restrained by Diglett :)
Best of luck to everyone for LCCL, and the upcoming ADV LC tournaments. We are on our way to see a new era of development, so let's make sure we do our best to make the tier as sick as possible, and improve as a player for this year <3
Leads have always been one of the biggest positions that are always rapidly developing because it's the position that has the most amount of different Pokémon with a viable or at least justified purpose to bring. At this moment, that creativity has been reduced with the optimization of Anorith lead after the Diglett ban. The answer is simple, but let's do a quick recap of how the lead was defined back in Dig Meta.
Wailmer and Snubbull were defining leads that any team has to take into account. While neither of them didn't have the strongest usage on the lead, you'll have to always look at Leads as objectively, where you wanna cover as much as possible, and a lot of the mindset was to take hits while having meaningful sequences/progress where you end up winning. Unlike its counterpart, DPP, the lead can be preserved to be used, or you're able to switch out on t1 lead without feeling like you've lost a heavy amount of momentum. Wailmer and Snubbull were some of the most defining mons due to their centralizing bulk against the whole tier, while having the perfect tools to create progress. When you think about covering the "Offense Leads" the benchmark you'll have in mind is Choice Band Doduo for the physical aspect, and then the Special is Wailmer's Water Spout at full health. Wailmer's bulk made it extremely hard to find the right OHKO move, because even the Electric's Thunderbolt is unable to OHKO Spdef Wailmer guaranteed, or it could tank in CB Doduo, then there's Snubbull, who neutralizes a lot of physical leads, and gatekeeps a lot of fast Special Attackers since he has enough power or tools to threaten and maneuver around them. I personally loved this because it led to players being able to map out their fast leads in turns ahead, or you could bring niche mons that can win interactions vs both those two and other leads, such as mon like Lileep, all according to your structure. I think when it comes to ADV LC leads, you should treat that lead as 6 vs 6 mons like you do in normal tiers with no previews, complementing my knowledge since I play a lot of Gen 4 OU, haha. A more detailed discussion on the lead aspect can be read here, where I think a lot of the concepts there are still very applicable today, or something to have in mind.
However, there's a Pokémon I've yet to mention there, and it's a Pokémon that has been slowly optimized and developed as the staple lead, and the Pokémon is Anorith. The Pokémon has always been noticeable and, to some degree, had to be prepared, but it was often widely unpopular among most ADV LC players, including myself, for a good while, since it tends to lose to Wailmer and Bulk Up Snubbull lead. However, Reggg's introduction on Knock Off Anorith, and especially adding more bulk to Anorith, drastically shook up the whole lead metagame. With Evaki and other players optimized, lead Anorith even further beyond, it became something you'd have to prepare eventually on the lead. It had always an underlying problem, though, and it was very vulnerable to being trapped by CB Diglett, and had an awkward synergy with Trapinch. With Diglett, I've personally pushed this Pokémon to be abused as a lead and even in a lot of teams behind in preview due to its insanely clutch bulk and always forcing progress regardless of whether you like it or not.
Now, why is Anorith so good at its job? There are three major reasons for it.
The first reason is Knock Off. Those who played in Gen 6-8(and some degree Gen 5) need to understand that Knock Off in Gen 3(and 4) acts differently, not necessarily worse than how y'all know it. In Gen 3 / 4, Knock Off only removes the item's effect, not the whole item itself. The item cannot be tricked or stolen as well; you're holding an equivalent of a mail item. Doing that on Sitrus Berry meta itself is insanely valuable in any position, just like imagine every/if not most sitrus mons are like current LC Mienfoo had one-time fully healing move, and you destroy that shit without being able to take the opponent's sitrus ever again. Maybe that would have helped to not get Porygon banned kek.
The second one is that it's a filter mon that destroys many niche and less commonly used Pokémon due to its high base atk and coverage of nearly everything in the tier. Along with Knock Off, this Pokémon responds well to a lot of niches/techs in the tier. It also nerfed the top-tier dog, Snubbull, and that alone shakes the lead meta to a uninmagineable level that took me a lot of time to proceed when developing post-diglett ban.
Third may be less applied, but still important to say, and that it just has that perfect bulk aspect to take hits against the majority of the tier. Bug/Rock is not a bad defensive typing, as it gives you unique resistance with mons and covering the type vs it is difficult bc physical side has to commit to Rock or Steel, and it's only weak to Water type from the Special side. This means you customize your bulk extremely proficiently to your liking. Fortunately for me, Anorith can't have all max speed and perfect bulk at once, but it's very capable of being flexible, and therefore the sets are never defined as long as the meta is developing; the lead set will always change depending on how the meta trends change or the prep if your opponent feels like using Special non-water leads.
Tips for anyone who wants the benchmark: Physical Max Speed Anorith(take into account HP Bug with 2 iv drops) tends to have 156 HP/116 Def with Jolly Nature to tank CB Doduo (without HP Steel), Spdef Invested can have 156 HP / 36 SpDef to survive vs HP Water Abra, or bit more on SpDef to survive vs 156 SpAtk Overheat Ponyta, or you can make yourself 156 HP/ 116 Def / 40 SpDef, but being forced to be 16-17 in speed puts you vulnerable to be speed crept/forced to speed tie by many 16-17 mons, most noticeably Chinchou, Houndour, Onix, Carvanha, etc.
What are the consequences of this?
The lead meta right now is extremely simplified. Anorith for me feels like a staple mon, and perhaps replaced Snubbull as the defining lead, and since Water leads are already staplized because of Wailmer, the meta is essentially defined by Water + Anorith(CB is also a crazy mixup as a lead mind u), as shown in the Greedy tournament, and either you bring a Water lead for potential Anorith lead, or you bring Anorith leads if you think your opponent is trying to be creative. Personally, I've a mixed feelings about this since it hinders the creativity that I liked in the past, but it forces progress and keeps a check on a lot of sub spam shit as well. Ngl, I blame David Watts for making me develop more on Anorith since he's been bringing mad spikes slop vs me, and that shit be disrespectful as shit no cap. Besides, this isn't solved, though, and there are more unique ways I've been thinking of to challenge this aspect, but for now, this is easily the best way to understand the lead metagame at the moment.
Also, there's been a high amount of Abra leads, but that shit is ASS if I wanna be real. It's very easy to prepare as a lead for any of its sets, and I think people should simply stop using Abra leads unless you wanna catch the opponent lacking or the prep gives you a meaningful reason to use it. Any experienced ADV LC players should have their Abra lead covered in check, because it's not that hard even if you have the wrong lead MU like using Koffing and Gastly(Abuse Thief / Roar Snubbull, SpDef Wailmer, HP Ghost Elekid, Houndour if no HP Water, etc)
Mid Game positions, and sequences / aka behind the preview mons
There are too many variables to point out since Diglett ban shook up a lot of dynamics, so what I've said here may not age well or not be as accurate. So I'll just point out the most noticeable thing that I hope everyone should be aware of.
- Anorith is also good at this position as well, making Snubbull have to adjust its strategies to it, or else it's losing in usage.
- Snubbull is nerfed since it loved the Diglett centralization, and a rise in Anorith makes it harder for Snubbull's simplified gameplan. Maybe an argument for not being in S tier anymore?
(!!) - Giving Snubbull conflicting problems also could indirectly buff setuppers that get invalidated by Snubbull, most noticeable DD mons ;)
- Wailmer is NOT MANDATORY in the team anymore, compared to near 100% usage. We don't even know if it's the best water type, as Chinchou got massively buffed from the Diglett ban. A strong Pokémon, but it'll have to make major adaptations in the tier. Maybe an argument for not being in S tier anymore?
- Chinchou is massively buffed, responds well to Electric type, especially hard on Elekid if they don't have HP Grass/Ground. Puts Wailmer in the contest of being the best water type in the metagame, and is just a very good all-around pokemon that is tricky to switch in against bc of its coverage.
- Electrics are obviously buffed as their role isn't only to clean up, but they also have an active role to keep a check against the special attackers in the tier, particularly vs Abra. Elekid specifically loves Diglett ban, but dislikes that it has to be a huge commitment on Hidden Power since you cannot cover Abra and Chinchou at the same time, a very noticeable conflict for any builders.
There are tons of wallbreakers, such as Houndour(check Overheat vs Trapinch dmg), Carvanha, Onix, and many things that were gatekept by Diglett, can have more purposeful use, especially those that don't lose or mind Trapinch's trapping. I'll also mention there may be something that will disrupt Lileep + Snubbull's defensive cores that could be created/reshown from past metagame, such as fighting types, so the "potential" could be massive even if you have to take into account Anorith.
- Abra has to be taken into account in this position as well. But as those who use Abra, it doesn't necessarily need to be CM. It can be all-atk if you have a spikes team, screens setupper, encore to get forceful sequences for your endgame sweeper due to its restriction and easy conditioning, and to some degree can have many niche uses, such as weather and such. My point is that Abra has many unique tools that can give you the sequence you want to have due to its nature in the tier, which makes it a very strong tool overall to be used as preparation vs your team, instead of building around your team support Abra itself.
There's a lot to go through here, but my overall point is that there are a lot of changes to be made. The biggest one I like that I didn't mention isn't a mon thing, but a bit fundamentally one where, with Diglett in the field, you can build your teams with more intent on using switching in and out, which the Diglett heavily restricted and made the game feel very much cover so many interactions as you want. So being able to use that aspect is very lovely, especially when there are a lot of scenarios you wanna preserve these mons, or you're in a very intenseful situations where you have to think ahead. This most likely hurts me as someone who has been adapted to build the tier and cover as many things as possible, but I'm pretty happy to readjust myself to adapt this aspect again. I think this is where things should be developed way more, as mid-game will have a greater influence on the games than feeling so "automatic". Also, I still think Water types are kinda nearly mandatory, mainly because of Anorith, and Rain makes you want to add in at least one Water type to keep those in check.
Late game / End game
- Abra needs to be taken into account. In theory, most,
My favourite ones are Elekid HP Ghost + Snubbull / Houndour, etc. There's also Houndour + Sun Exeggcute if Abra will have a massive dilemma fthat it has the perfect coverage for both of them, Toxic on mons that Abra would set up into Sub 20 mons, Light Screeners vs Abra as well, SpDef Icy Wind + Water Spout vs non-sub Abra or HP Ghost Wailmer, etc. My point is that Abra may not freely sweep, and that the mon + the team has to do work in order to sweep. I was paranoid at first, but eventually I realized there are many different ways to respond to endgame Abra. It's still the biggest thing you have to prepare for, but it's not impossible to stop, and I hope the overall ADV LC community finds their unique ways to cover or not let Abra get opportunities to set up. An argument I had in mind is if it's the best Pokémon, but after doing some self-reflecting, I am not really sure, to be honest. It's probably the best for me because it's the only mon I am confident is in S, even if it goes a bit against what I said a sentence ago.
- Bulk Up Snubbull is still good IMO, but it's not a menace where you can abuse Thief + Bulk anymore because of Anorith's. Mind you tho, Snubbull can respond to Anorith with Hidden Power Steel, which also covers MUs like Lileep and Larvitar, but this does nerf endgame Snubbull and can buff mons like Abra and Bagon, for better or worse eh?
- Potential "setup" Salac Endure, or Agility + berry boosters into sub may actually work????? Anorith's Rock Blast, Roar moves, and Priority can be annoying af, but there's definitely a strong possibility to see it exist here. As a note, Agility mons should have 15 or 14 at worst to avoid a lot of annoying speed ties on the slower side to get guaranteed bulk, but having the ability to outspeed 19 Speed Salacs is usually more preferable though.
- DD mons could also be good again?? I think this is very meta-dependent if I wanna be real. Bagon indirectly gets buffed by Anorith for Snubbull and somewhat Gastly MU, or if Waters doesn't run Ice Beam, and has moves to cover vs Abra like Toxic Chinchou. This is just an observation and something I theorized in the future meta, once we get to that aspect.
- Weather archetype is still extremely good, sun > rain tho. Rain does appreciate the lack of Diglett trapping to some degree, but the rise of Water types, more importance on Lileep, and Electric types makes it awkwardly tricky for Rain to find the right sequences. But accept that weathers typcially takes more time to develop, as they're good as long as the meta allows them to do so. That's why Sun was weak in the Porygon meta because Chloro Mons were getting trolled by Porygon, and insanely strong in Diglett meta since Diglett removed a lot of Oddish's checks, and Oddish just teared apart so many teams that relied on that one mon.
Overall, the general fast Pokémon cleaning against each other is what you'll most commonly see, but there are a lot of "what ifs" that could happen in-game. Just take it with a grain of salt, experiment and test your theories, and IMO enjoy the new, fresh meta that was heavily restrained by Diglett :)
Best of luck to everyone for LCCL, and the upcoming ADV LC tournaments. We are on our way to see a new era of development, so let's make sure we do our best to make the tier as sick as possible, and improve as a player for this year <3
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APRIL 2026 ADV LC METAGAME SURVEY
It's been a little over half a year since the last metagame survey. Since the metagame has had time to settle since Diglett was banned and LCCL is coming to a close, we have decided to release a survey gauging interest on tiering action on Abra, Sitrus Berry, and anything else you may feel is uncompetitive. Please fill out the survey here! The survey closes on 16 April 2026 at 21:00 (16th of April 8pm GMT+0), so make sure to fill out the form before then if you want your voice to be heard.
It's been a little over half a year since the last metagame survey. Since the metagame has had time to settle since Diglett was banned and LCCL is coming to a close, we have decided to release a survey gauging interest on tiering action on Abra, Sitrus Berry, and anything else you may feel is uncompetitive. Please fill out the survey here! The survey closes on 16 April 2026 at 21:00 (16th of April 8pm GMT+0), so make sure to fill out the form before then if you want your voice to be heard.
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April 2026 Metagame Survey Results
The metagame survey has now concluded! Thank you to everyone who responded, and here are the results:
Metagame enjoyment remains quite positive but is very slightly lower than last survey's score.
Metagame competitiveness is considered lower than we would like, despite being very slightly higher than the last survey's score.
There is incredibly strong support for tiering action against Abra, and as a result it has been quickbanned by a unanimous council vote. (More information below!)
The support for tiering action against Sitrus Berry is mixed but largely positive, and many people expressed in the additional comments section their particular support for tiering action against Sitrus Berry, however the support for action against Abra was considerably stronger and uncontroversial so no action will be taken against Sitrus Berry for the time being but the council will continue to pay attention to opinions on Sitrus Berry.
Abra
The metagame has shifted considerably after the Diglett ban last year, and Abra quickly emerged as one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Diglett ban, perhaps unsurprisingly so as Diglett's 20 Speed and Arena Trap meant it could consistently respond to and eliminate Abra. Abra could run a multitude of sets with differing EV spreads and move options ranging from Thunder Punch to Hidden Power Water/Hidden Power Dark or perhaps most infamously, Barrier. It is extremely difficult for the opposing player to react to each of Abra's sets since the sets can be easily adapted to handle all its checks while maintaining itself as a threatening sweeper. Abra's Speed gives it many opportunities to hit the field and start setting up due to its innate threat potential. Calm Mind's SpDef boost works in tandem with Thief, which makes Abra harder to KO from the special side and allows Abra to easily keep itself healthy by stealing Sitrus and uphold its threat level. Put simply, Abra became a metagame warping threat that warranted at least 2-3 different Pokemon with often specific sets just to handle Abra confidently, with this dynamic being so unhealthy for the metagame that we, the council, have unanimously decided to quickban Abra. (Thank you rineko for the analysis!)
tagging dhelmise for implementation
The metagame survey has now concluded! Thank you to everyone who responded, and here are the results:
Metagame enjoyment remains quite positive but is very slightly lower than last survey's score.
Metagame competitiveness is considered lower than we would like, despite being very slightly higher than the last survey's score.
There is incredibly strong support for tiering action against Abra, and as a result it has been quickbanned by a unanimous council vote. (More information below!)
The support for tiering action against Sitrus Berry is mixed but largely positive, and many people expressed in the additional comments section their particular support for tiering action against Sitrus Berry, however the support for action against Abra was considerably stronger and uncontroversial so no action will be taken against Sitrus Berry for the time being but the council will continue to pay attention to opinions on Sitrus Berry.
Abra
The metagame has shifted considerably after the Diglett ban last year, and Abra quickly emerged as one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Diglett ban, perhaps unsurprisingly so as Diglett's 20 Speed and Arena Trap meant it could consistently respond to and eliminate Abra. Abra could run a multitude of sets with differing EV spreads and move options ranging from Thunder Punch to Hidden Power Water/Hidden Power Dark or perhaps most infamously, Barrier. It is extremely difficult for the opposing player to react to each of Abra's sets since the sets can be easily adapted to handle all its checks while maintaining itself as a threatening sweeper. Abra's Speed gives it many opportunities to hit the field and start setting up due to its innate threat potential. Calm Mind's SpDef boost works in tandem with Thief, which makes Abra harder to KO from the special side and allows Abra to easily keep itself healthy by stealing Sitrus and uphold its threat level. Put simply, Abra became a metagame warping threat that warranted at least 2-3 different Pokemon with often specific sets just to handle Abra confidently, with this dynamic being so unhealthy for the metagame that we, the council, have unanimously decided to quickban Abra. (Thank you rineko for the analysis!)
| Votes | evakiyama! | naere | Quinn | rineko | Shing |
| Decision | Quickban | Quickban | Quickban | Quickban | Quickban |
tagging dhelmise for implementation
probably working on this post over the next few days but will post my thoughts on adv lc before and after the abra ban after having played thru advpl, slotting in most of the weeks that tour. im aware that lcpl literally just started as well so theres more adv to develop but rn heres my thoughts.
notes:
-abra centralised teambuilding to an unhealthy degree to where it felt like only a few viable team structures rly existed since u otherwise get mogged by one of the sets.
-mixed elekid p much felt mandatory on most teams for having 20 spe + hp ghost/bug to ko abra, but this is tbh an unoptimal set that isnt even fully consistent as abra can invest in bulk or just use barrier. voltorb can light screen and threaten boom but you have to blow up ur own torb meanwhile abra user can just go to pinch and remove u.
-dark types to wall abra but abra can opt for random coverage like tpunch or hp water to merc houndour and carvanha. 2 calm minds abra can survive crunch and ko houndour with thief+tpunch even. only real counter is poochyena which is the easiest thing to switch in on lol.
-anything below like b isnt rly ordered, at some point esp in c and d ranks i just started slapping random things i believe are potential mon lmfao or that ive seen work in the past.
while banning abra during the middle of many individual and team tours seems kinda wild, i do think it was absolutely the right call as i feel its removal has vastly improved the meta. the meta feels a lot more engaging both in the teambuilder and in the actual battles p much and im rly looking forward to how the meta goes in the future. perhaps making a full vr so soon after the ban may not be reflective of how fast the meta will progress (which i guarantee it will), but i will offer some of my general thoughts on how i feel the meta has shifted since the ban.
post abra ban notes:
:elekid:
can finally run more optimal sets with max spa / max spe. petaya berry sets in particular feel really good in this meta and imo is a really good late-game cleaner since theres not much priority going on and the other 20 spe mons r both trapinch weak. tbh it even fits on teams without pinch but make sure u can remove the electrics and chip mons like snubbull and chinchou in range (which is not the hardest thing to do)
:chinchou:
feels even better with abra banned since it was one of the main entry points for abra to come in and do its abra bullshit. now it doesnt have to worry about that and its definitely a contender for best water in the tier. so many games have a chou mirror interaction rofl similar to the wail mirrors in the dig meta. imo the best sets run good amount of spd evs just to better handle opposing waters and electrics.
:wailmer:
that said, wailmer is still wailmer this mon is still great even after the bans of dig and abra. its ev spread is rly customizable, its one of the sturdiest responses to lot of threats in the meta such as anorith, cubone, cb doduo, opposing wailmer. combination of icy wind + water spout still threatens so many switchins, and boom is always great to have. you can never rly go wrong with a wailmer on ur team and it might honestly still be the best mon in the meta if not top 3 at least.
:anorith:
appreciates having one less faster threat towards it with abra gone. its still doing the same stuff as it did before with knock off and rock blast making it one of the best progress makers in the meta, as well as being extremely customizable with evs that allow it to survive stuff like cb doduo drill peck with def investment or ponyta overheat with spd investment. its typing is interesting as it doesnt have lot of weaknesses, tbh anorith is kinda the reason hp steel is as common as it is. theres also sd sets with potential salac shenanigans which r rly scary esp since it resists normal. it rly wishes rock blast wasnt 80% in this gen and 2hits wasnt a high 37.5%, but it lives and dies by the rng.
:snubbull:
still doing the same stuff as ever, one of the best responses to physical attackers in the tier and extremely threatening with bulk up + thief, with abra gone it no longer doesnt feel required to invest as much into spd and can instead spec into atk and be even more threatening. it kinda has to choose what it gets checked harder by more since no shadow ball or hp steel means gastly walls u, no eq means u have to rely on normal stab to dispatch electrics (and risk static potentially), no hp steel means anorith and lileep esp annoy u, but depending on how u build ur team u can more than cover for these. non bu variants r still good, roar is rly cool tech, even smth absurd like cb lead is good.
:voltorb:
voltorb feels better to use with abra gone but thats mainly due to my insistence on using mixed elekid to more adequately respond to abra. its got great traits in boom, thief, 20 spe tier, better bulk, it can at least trade with pinch with boom whereas elekid has to fish for a freeze. it works rly nicely in the mid game to respond to threats like wailmer, doduo, staryu, it can be ev'd to survive eggy/oddish solarbeam. still great as ever tbh
:gastly:
abra ban has definitely made gastly a lot easier to use on a team as it no longer has to worry about giving abra free switches and getting forced out by it. its rly nice at pivoting in on random coverage moves and stealing sitrus, then trying to go 2-1 with boom after. just a great midgame threat in general imo tho only thing is it kinda has to worry about what coverage it uses since it has so many options, tbolt giga psychic hp ice/water, even physical options potentially. thing is sometimes it feels its unthreatening unless it booms since its special moves arent stab and oftne low bp.
:lileep:
i feel like lileep has fallen off a bit in the meta rn as with abra gone its bulk isnt as needed to respond to it as much anymore and it feels too passive at times. lot of the waters run ice beam more often which leads to surf + ice beam often koing lileep, hp steel is more common too, machop comes in for free. that said, it can honestly stonewall unprepared teams and grass/rock is pretty nice offensive type combo in this tier, maybe it picks up in the future.
:ponyta:
ponyta is a good mon still, people have been experimenting with mixed sets using overheat+hp ground to answer chinchou, or even sunnybeam sets paired with eggy/oddish. its one of the best answers to sun and opposing fire types and has a great 19 speed tier, letting it respond to gastly anorith doduo and the like.
:machop:
with abra ban i think machop stonks have gone up considerably. its bulky enough to live wailmer water spout, it has tools like thief encore bulk up, its one of the few things that can ohko snubbull and lileep and is just rly hard to switch in on. the only mon that would really wanna switch in on machop is like koffing, other mons like gastly or exeggcute can be easily mogged by coverage, duskull is similar and doesnt rly do much back to machop besides maybe set up memento. this mon is just rly good rly hard to switch into, focus punch is also an option worth exploring.
:doduo:
potentially one of the most threatening mons in the meta, but rn every team preps for it so its not as powerful as it may seem. snubbull, lileep, koffing, physdef wailmer, bulky anorith, duskull can all generally switch in on it. random protects and subs help scout the band sets. that said though liechi+agility sets r pretty potent esp with spd investment to survive random shit like hp ice oddish.
:trapinch:
great at removing 20spe mons to enable ur own electrics or anything in the 19spe range. also great at removing anorith since that mon is good at invalidating pinch berry strats. ev spreads r rly customizable u can go 9 speed to get the jump on lileep, cb is also a more aggressive option as well.
:staryu:
this mon feels like budget wailmer in how lot of people try use it, so honestly take advantage of the things that set it apart. the main thing is screens, staryu is great at getting them up and helping out any of its mates esp dd/agility mons. its also lot faster and can be a potent offensive threat on its own esp vs 18 spe mons here.
:koffing:
feels like an alternative to gastly more apt at taking physical attackers in this meta esp with its only weakness being psychic. it has thief and boom as well, can threaten burns, great coverage options both physical and special, with abra gone this mon def should see more usage, def the best response to machop and cubone tbh.
:houndour:
houndour is great on teams that want gastly gone and response to sun threats. pursuit is just great tool to have in general tho it can also utilise salac sets well. tbh it might even be better in this meta now since gastly is going to be more used now and houndour either forces gast to boom or drop from pursuit.
:exeggcute:
abra gone means one less response to eggy. it can rly mow over lot of the common structures in this meta as they often have 2 water types, but honestly it rly needs mons in ko ranges otherwise the opponent can just switch to burn sun turns or they invest in spd randomly and survive ur solarbeam. eggy solarbeam doesnt ohko elekid for example. in other words it finds itself often needing to boom to make progress esp if theres a fire mon on the opposing side.
:oddish:
alternative to eggy that trades boom and psychic for better spa and option to run hp ice for bagon/doduo. more restricted to lategame cleaning than eggy since it doesnt have boom imo so therefore needs stuff like pony and houndour removed, but still a nice mon.
:cubone:
this mon is extremely threatening as a lead, p much only water type leads have a good mu vs it unless ur running an offensive cacnea or something. with a good lead mu the opponent is prob scrambling to find a good switch in if they dont have a koffing or duskull or something, even physdef wailmer takes so much from cubone.
:cacnea:
still the best spikes user in the meta tho tbh i dont rly think spikes r that amazing in adv lc, it doesnt rly get that many opportunities to hit the field since even water types are more often running ice beam so it doesnt even wanna eat a surf lest it be in ice beam range. that said it still has great tools in encore and dbond it has things it can do besides just spikes.
:magnemite:
one of the only steels in this meta and it helps respond vs lot of metagame threats like exeggcute, gastly, and the like. the only thing is it has to be careful of hp ground since even mons like elekid and voltorb will run it since it helps vs chinchou.
the rest of the mons havent rly changed much so there isnt rly that much to speak about on them. what i will say is i think we will start to see more experimentation on random mons that were difficult to justify pre abra ban, stuff like grimer, tentacool, mankey, poliwag, smoochum, natu whatever have you, i can all see being tried out more in the future here. its pretty exciting tbh i rly like where this meta is now and i hope people have a fun time building and playing for lcpl and anything in the future
-abra centralised teambuilding to an unhealthy degree to where it felt like only a few viable team structures rly existed since u otherwise get mogged by one of the sets.
-mixed elekid p much felt mandatory on most teams for having 20 spe + hp ghost/bug to ko abra, but this is tbh an unoptimal set that isnt even fully consistent as abra can invest in bulk or just use barrier. voltorb can light screen and threaten boom but you have to blow up ur own torb meanwhile abra user can just go to pinch and remove u.
-dark types to wall abra but abra can opt for random coverage like tpunch or hp water to merc houndour and carvanha. 2 calm minds abra can survive crunch and ko houndour with thief+tpunch even. only real counter is poochyena which is the easiest thing to switch in on lol.
-anything below like b isnt rly ordered, at some point esp in c and d ranks i just started slapping random things i believe are potential mon lmfao or that ive seen work in the past.
while banning abra during the middle of many individual and team tours seems kinda wild, i do think it was absolutely the right call as i feel its removal has vastly improved the meta. the meta feels a lot more engaging both in the teambuilder and in the actual battles p much and im rly looking forward to how the meta goes in the future. perhaps making a full vr so soon after the ban may not be reflective of how fast the meta will progress (which i guarantee it will), but i will offer some of my general thoughts on how i feel the meta has shifted since the ban.
post abra ban notes:
:elekid:
can finally run more optimal sets with max spa / max spe. petaya berry sets in particular feel really good in this meta and imo is a really good late-game cleaner since theres not much priority going on and the other 20 spe mons r both trapinch weak. tbh it even fits on teams without pinch but make sure u can remove the electrics and chip mons like snubbull and chinchou in range (which is not the hardest thing to do)
:chinchou:
feels even better with abra banned since it was one of the main entry points for abra to come in and do its abra bullshit. now it doesnt have to worry about that and its definitely a contender for best water in the tier. so many games have a chou mirror interaction rofl similar to the wail mirrors in the dig meta. imo the best sets run good amount of spd evs just to better handle opposing waters and electrics.
:wailmer:
that said, wailmer is still wailmer this mon is still great even after the bans of dig and abra. its ev spread is rly customizable, its one of the sturdiest responses to lot of threats in the meta such as anorith, cubone, cb doduo, opposing wailmer. combination of icy wind + water spout still threatens so many switchins, and boom is always great to have. you can never rly go wrong with a wailmer on ur team and it might honestly still be the best mon in the meta if not top 3 at least.
:anorith:
appreciates having one less faster threat towards it with abra gone. its still doing the same stuff as it did before with knock off and rock blast making it one of the best progress makers in the meta, as well as being extremely customizable with evs that allow it to survive stuff like cb doduo drill peck with def investment or ponyta overheat with spd investment. its typing is interesting as it doesnt have lot of weaknesses, tbh anorith is kinda the reason hp steel is as common as it is. theres also sd sets with potential salac shenanigans which r rly scary esp since it resists normal. it rly wishes rock blast wasnt 80% in this gen and 2hits wasnt a high 37.5%, but it lives and dies by the rng.
:snubbull:
still doing the same stuff as ever, one of the best responses to physical attackers in the tier and extremely threatening with bulk up + thief, with abra gone it no longer doesnt feel required to invest as much into spd and can instead spec into atk and be even more threatening. it kinda has to choose what it gets checked harder by more since no shadow ball or hp steel means gastly walls u, no eq means u have to rely on normal stab to dispatch electrics (and risk static potentially), no hp steel means anorith and lileep esp annoy u, but depending on how u build ur team u can more than cover for these. non bu variants r still good, roar is rly cool tech, even smth absurd like cb lead is good.
:voltorb:
voltorb feels better to use with abra gone but thats mainly due to my insistence on using mixed elekid to more adequately respond to abra. its got great traits in boom, thief, 20 spe tier, better bulk, it can at least trade with pinch with boom whereas elekid has to fish for a freeze. it works rly nicely in the mid game to respond to threats like wailmer, doduo, staryu, it can be ev'd to survive eggy/oddish solarbeam. still great as ever tbh
:gastly:
abra ban has definitely made gastly a lot easier to use on a team as it no longer has to worry about giving abra free switches and getting forced out by it. its rly nice at pivoting in on random coverage moves and stealing sitrus, then trying to go 2-1 with boom after. just a great midgame threat in general imo tho only thing is it kinda has to worry about what coverage it uses since it has so many options, tbolt giga psychic hp ice/water, even physical options potentially. thing is sometimes it feels its unthreatening unless it booms since its special moves arent stab and oftne low bp.
:lileep:
i feel like lileep has fallen off a bit in the meta rn as with abra gone its bulk isnt as needed to respond to it as much anymore and it feels too passive at times. lot of the waters run ice beam more often which leads to surf + ice beam often koing lileep, hp steel is more common too, machop comes in for free. that said, it can honestly stonewall unprepared teams and grass/rock is pretty nice offensive type combo in this tier, maybe it picks up in the future.
:ponyta:
ponyta is a good mon still, people have been experimenting with mixed sets using overheat+hp ground to answer chinchou, or even sunnybeam sets paired with eggy/oddish. its one of the best answers to sun and opposing fire types and has a great 19 speed tier, letting it respond to gastly anorith doduo and the like.
:machop:
with abra ban i think machop stonks have gone up considerably. its bulky enough to live wailmer water spout, it has tools like thief encore bulk up, its one of the few things that can ohko snubbull and lileep and is just rly hard to switch in on. the only mon that would really wanna switch in on machop is like koffing, other mons like gastly or exeggcute can be easily mogged by coverage, duskull is similar and doesnt rly do much back to machop besides maybe set up memento. this mon is just rly good rly hard to switch into, focus punch is also an option worth exploring.
:doduo:
potentially one of the most threatening mons in the meta, but rn every team preps for it so its not as powerful as it may seem. snubbull, lileep, koffing, physdef wailmer, bulky anorith, duskull can all generally switch in on it. random protects and subs help scout the band sets. that said though liechi+agility sets r pretty potent esp with spd investment to survive random shit like hp ice oddish.
:trapinch:
great at removing 20spe mons to enable ur own electrics or anything in the 19spe range. also great at removing anorith since that mon is good at invalidating pinch berry strats. ev spreads r rly customizable u can go 9 speed to get the jump on lileep, cb is also a more aggressive option as well.
:staryu:
this mon feels like budget wailmer in how lot of people try use it, so honestly take advantage of the things that set it apart. the main thing is screens, staryu is great at getting them up and helping out any of its mates esp dd/agility mons. its also lot faster and can be a potent offensive threat on its own esp vs 18 spe mons here.
:koffing:
feels like an alternative to gastly more apt at taking physical attackers in this meta esp with its only weakness being psychic. it has thief and boom as well, can threaten burns, great coverage options both physical and special, with abra gone this mon def should see more usage, def the best response to machop and cubone tbh.
:houndour:
houndour is great on teams that want gastly gone and response to sun threats. pursuit is just great tool to have in general tho it can also utilise salac sets well. tbh it might even be better in this meta now since gastly is going to be more used now and houndour either forces gast to boom or drop from pursuit.
:exeggcute:
abra gone means one less response to eggy. it can rly mow over lot of the common structures in this meta as they often have 2 water types, but honestly it rly needs mons in ko ranges otherwise the opponent can just switch to burn sun turns or they invest in spd randomly and survive ur solarbeam. eggy solarbeam doesnt ohko elekid for example. in other words it finds itself often needing to boom to make progress esp if theres a fire mon on the opposing side.
:oddish:
alternative to eggy that trades boom and psychic for better spa and option to run hp ice for bagon/doduo. more restricted to lategame cleaning than eggy since it doesnt have boom imo so therefore needs stuff like pony and houndour removed, but still a nice mon.
:cubone:
this mon is extremely threatening as a lead, p much only water type leads have a good mu vs it unless ur running an offensive cacnea or something. with a good lead mu the opponent is prob scrambling to find a good switch in if they dont have a koffing or duskull or something, even physdef wailmer takes so much from cubone.
:cacnea:
still the best spikes user in the meta tho tbh i dont rly think spikes r that amazing in adv lc, it doesnt rly get that many opportunities to hit the field since even water types are more often running ice beam so it doesnt even wanna eat a surf lest it be in ice beam range. that said it still has great tools in encore and dbond it has things it can do besides just spikes.
:magnemite:
one of the only steels in this meta and it helps respond vs lot of metagame threats like exeggcute, gastly, and the like. the only thing is it has to be careful of hp ground since even mons like elekid and voltorb will run it since it helps vs chinchou.
the rest of the mons havent rly changed much so there isnt rly that much to speak about on them. what i will say is i think we will start to see more experimentation on random mons that were difficult to justify pre abra ban, stuff like grimer, tentacool, mankey, poliwag, smoochum, natu whatever have you, i can all see being tried out more in the future here. its pretty exciting tbh i rly like where this meta is now and i hope people have a fun time building and playing for lcpl and anything in the future
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yo wagwan so its been announced that adv lc is playable on the showdown ladder for this months (august 2026) roa spotlight, and the ladder has just went live. adv players are currently working on updating sample teams and various other resources but while we work on that i figure id dump some of my teams i made in advpl. yea i suppose i shouldve done this much earlier as part of my earlier post after advpl but uhh lol i guess we jumped straight into lcpl so it skipped my mind. anyways i encourage other players to also dump their teams, its rly useful for everyone whether they play this meta mad or more importantly, are playing this meta for the first time on ladder or wherever.
as for my personal viability rankings, its mostly the same as the image above i posted reflecting abra meta but, wailmer 1 chinchou 2, both in s, anorith 3 snubbull 4, elekid/voltorb 5/6, gastly 7, all in a+, koffing to a, lileep a-, swap ponyta and houndour, mankey to a- (same tier as machop imo), the rest no opinion yet
abra got banned after week 4, but uh we forgor to implement the ban until like week 6 or (I DIDNT SAY IT :wilted_rose:) so i was having to play vs this bullshi mon when i was building without it in mind
:doduo: :chinchou: :anorith: :voltorb: :wailmer: :bagon: week 5 vs gawain
lead doduo is prob the most straightforward lead mon to use cause u either just click the funny doubleedge button or switch out depending on mu, lowkey call it doduo slop lol. main thing with doduo tho is its rly good at forcing physical checks to switch in early game like snubbull koffing or physdef wailmer, this combined with knock off anorith, and two waters helps weaken or eliminate the mons thatd stifle a bagon sweep. light screen voltorb also helps to further ensure bagon can set up vs special mons like chinchou or elekid, perhaps itd make more sense to run sitrus as usual rather than liechi but theres def cases where u cant get a second dd off, honestly on that front larvitar is prob better at making liechi work but bagon has better defensive typing to set up in the first place.
but yeah these are just my thoughts pls dont hack me!!!! ty clark rainbow for inventing dolls online
:chinchou: :machop: :voltorb: :wailmer: :gastly: :anorith: week 6 vs alder
chinchou is just a good lead vs most things as i said before, but tbh youd prob wanna try preserve it for other chou here looking back on it, id at least put hp ground on voltorb here. but yeah main thing is machop this mon is rly him, bulk up and thief?? fighting stab here is so nice u threaten snubbull and lileep out, hp ghost mogs gastly too, tbh it plays like a more offensively inclined snubbull. but yea besides machop the rest of the team is just standard good mons that work rly nicely and are rly flexible.
also despite what the halozy names imply ive never got into osu, i just rly like hotaru songs in particular, like genryuu kaiko ofc
:teddiursa: :snubbull: :wailmer: :gastly: :magnemite: :elekid: week 7 vs celdanami
might be one of my craziest cooks, in fact i barely got home in time to play this weeks match and i didnt even end up having names on my mons for that week :sob:. teddiursa is pretty much a second snubbull, they have nearly identical stats, but it trades intimidate (so defensive utility) for sd and being 1 speed tier higher. so with that in mind obv i sought to build with it, i think teddi fits easiest as a lead since it can just live strong hits like wailmer water spout and anorith brick break while letting u have snubbull in the back for defensive utility, but i def see it with some midgame utility just due to thief and sd. magnemite is interesting i just needed an electric check that switches into doduo gastly and exeggcute tbh and in turn can at least toxic stuff, put chinchou and trapinch in range of hp grass. besides that its just standard mons tbh, putting the season on the line with teddiursa was kinda crazy tho ngl
song names are from alices emotion tailwinds album, all song vocals by nomida ayumi, just listen to last remote here.
:anorith: :wailmer: :chinchou: :trapinch: :charmander: :elekid:semis vs shing
for the record, our team already won the week by the time i got around to playing so this was purely for fun, thats why u see a charmander tho if im being real i shouldve used snorunt but it didnt strike to me. i personally think charmander is a good mon just due to blaze + petaya + dd makes flamethrower absurdly strong, only things that rly survive charmander after petaya are flash fire mons (so try trap with pinch or remove with ur other mons p much, and wailmer can trade with opposing wailmer at worst), but obv u want stuff like doduo and opposing pinch gone too. if im being real though, replace charmander with ponyta and make the elekid petaya to have a more easy to pilot team, or honestly make the elekid petaya anyways cause its just good mon imo.
the song names are just an assortment of shibayan songs, not rly a particular vocalist or album like i usually do, i kinda decided them on last minute cause got pinged to play, but yea shibayan is goated like just listen to desert years yanaginagi my goat fr on god on kamisama.
:ponyta: :wailmer: :chinchou: :gastly: :snubbull: :elekid: finals vs celdanami
before i get into it, this version of the team is more standard, my original version that i loaded in finals had salac on gastly with endure instead of thief, mainly as an anti bullshit response to other salac mons that can go 2 for 1 with boom (ty violet river for idea). ultimately though i just built with smth i feel comfortable piloting, i rly like having two water checks due to prevelance of wailmer and chinchou, gastly also can respond to chinchou well as theyd fear giga drain and thief, but it just has good defensive utility in general with normal immunity. having chinchou means i can make my wailmer more physically defensive along with snubbull which is rly nice vs things like anorith and doduo. then to finish it we have petaya elekid, get some chip on mons like chinchou and snubbull and this mon is scary af, doduo and trapinch are issue but u can play around them.
names are all alstroemeria songs with mican*, lotus road and scarlet fogbound might actually be top 10 alstroemeria songs for me tbh (for reference bad apple might not even be top 20 thats how good they are esp in 2006-2011 or so).
i played in a few adv lc teamtour games since advpl, including one today with a baltoy of all things, but the teams i used were built primarily by my teammates with me just adjusting one or two things to my comfort so i dont think its my place to post them. i know few of our players posted teams in the discord but as i said earlier i do encourage them to post here on the forums for more visibility if they so wish. but yea regardless i hope these posts and this teamdump is useful to people in some way, hope everyone enjoys getting some adv lc laddering this month, ik i maybe spent more words talking about songs than needed but idc people gotta tap innnnnn anyways stay bless
as for my personal viability rankings, its mostly the same as the image above i posted reflecting abra meta but, wailmer 1 chinchou 2, both in s, anorith 3 snubbull 4, elekid/voltorb 5/6, gastly 7, all in a+, koffing to a, lileep a-, swap ponyta and houndour, mankey to a- (same tier as machop imo), the rest no opinion yet
for completeness sake im also team dropping week 1 and 4 here, tack my goat played week 2 and 3. i wont rly go in depth here since its been months and i lowkey kinda forgor some shi already, highkey i might go more in on the mons names i need mandem to tap in on them styll :joy:
:chinchou: :abra: :elekid: :snubbull: :wailmer: :houndour: week 1 vs hacker
chinchou lead is just nice vs lot of things, tbh this team could prob still work if u replace the abra with smth like exeggcute, gastly, or even anorith then make the elekid set normal or even petaya. also i love my computer 4562x more than anything <3 ty ninajirachi for inventing edm
:machop: :abra: :elekid: :houndour: :lileep: :wailmer:
tied the week 1 game so went into my builder, saw machop and was like yea sure. if u wanna update this team to modern meta id make elekid set normal here ofc or replace with voltorb tbh then make abra a gastly or anorith and houndour can be a ponyta instead.
:chinchou: :abra: :elekid: :snubbull: :staryu: :anorith: week 4 vs shing
pretty similar to the week 1 team, i have staryu instead of wailmer simply for light screen which helps vs abra in particular and works nicely with salac anorith. light screen can still be nice in current meta esp when paired with setup sweepers like bagon or larvitar, but yeah replace abra with like gastly or some shit if u rly wanna use it, also jane remover the goat
:chinchou: :abra: :elekid: :snubbull: :wailmer: :houndour: week 1 vs hacker
chinchou lead is just nice vs lot of things, tbh this team could prob still work if u replace the abra with smth like exeggcute, gastly, or even anorith then make the elekid set normal or even petaya. also i love my computer 4562x more than anything <3 ty ninajirachi for inventing edm
:machop: :abra: :elekid: :houndour: :lileep: :wailmer:
tied the week 1 game so went into my builder, saw machop and was like yea sure. if u wanna update this team to modern meta id make elekid set normal here ofc or replace with voltorb tbh then make abra a gastly or anorith and houndour can be a ponyta instead.
:chinchou: :abra: :elekid: :snubbull: :staryu: :anorith: week 4 vs shing
pretty similar to the week 1 team, i have staryu instead of wailmer simply for light screen which helps vs abra in particular and works nicely with salac anorith. light screen can still be nice in current meta esp when paired with setup sweepers like bagon or larvitar, but yeah replace abra with like gastly or some shit if u rly wanna use it, also jane remover the goat
abra got banned after week 4, but uh we forgor to implement the ban until like week 6 or (I DIDNT SAY IT :wilted_rose:) so i was having to play vs this bullshi mon when i was building without it in mind
:doduo: :chinchou: :anorith: :voltorb: :wailmer: :bagon: week 5 vs gawain
lead doduo is prob the most straightforward lead mon to use cause u either just click the funny doubleedge button or switch out depending on mu, lowkey call it doduo slop lol. main thing with doduo tho is its rly good at forcing physical checks to switch in early game like snubbull koffing or physdef wailmer, this combined with knock off anorith, and two waters helps weaken or eliminate the mons thatd stifle a bagon sweep. light screen voltorb also helps to further ensure bagon can set up vs special mons like chinchou or elekid, perhaps itd make more sense to run sitrus as usual rather than liechi but theres def cases where u cant get a second dd off, honestly on that front larvitar is prob better at making liechi work but bagon has better defensive typing to set up in the first place.
but yeah these are just my thoughts pls dont hack me!!!! ty clark rainbow for inventing dolls online
:chinchou: :machop: :voltorb: :wailmer: :gastly: :anorith: week 6 vs alder
chinchou is just a good lead vs most things as i said before, but tbh youd prob wanna try preserve it for other chou here looking back on it, id at least put hp ground on voltorb here. but yeah main thing is machop this mon is rly him, bulk up and thief?? fighting stab here is so nice u threaten snubbull and lileep out, hp ghost mogs gastly too, tbh it plays like a more offensively inclined snubbull. but yea besides machop the rest of the team is just standard good mons that work rly nicely and are rly flexible.
also despite what the halozy names imply ive never got into osu, i just rly like hotaru songs in particular, like genryuu kaiko ofc
:teddiursa: :snubbull: :wailmer: :gastly: :magnemite: :elekid: week 7 vs celdanami
might be one of my craziest cooks, in fact i barely got home in time to play this weeks match and i didnt even end up having names on my mons for that week :sob:. teddiursa is pretty much a second snubbull, they have nearly identical stats, but it trades intimidate (so defensive utility) for sd and being 1 speed tier higher. so with that in mind obv i sought to build with it, i think teddi fits easiest as a lead since it can just live strong hits like wailmer water spout and anorith brick break while letting u have snubbull in the back for defensive utility, but i def see it with some midgame utility just due to thief and sd. magnemite is interesting i just needed an electric check that switches into doduo gastly and exeggcute tbh and in turn can at least toxic stuff, put chinchou and trapinch in range of hp grass. besides that its just standard mons tbh, putting the season on the line with teddiursa was kinda crazy tho ngl
song names are from alices emotion tailwinds album, all song vocals by nomida ayumi, just listen to last remote here.
:anorith: :wailmer: :chinchou: :trapinch: :charmander: :elekid:semis vs shing
for the record, our team already won the week by the time i got around to playing so this was purely for fun, thats why u see a charmander tho if im being real i shouldve used snorunt but it didnt strike to me. i personally think charmander is a good mon just due to blaze + petaya + dd makes flamethrower absurdly strong, only things that rly survive charmander after petaya are flash fire mons (so try trap with pinch or remove with ur other mons p much, and wailmer can trade with opposing wailmer at worst), but obv u want stuff like doduo and opposing pinch gone too. if im being real though, replace charmander with ponyta and make the elekid petaya to have a more easy to pilot team, or honestly make the elekid petaya anyways cause its just good mon imo.
the song names are just an assortment of shibayan songs, not rly a particular vocalist or album like i usually do, i kinda decided them on last minute cause got pinged to play, but yea shibayan is goated like just listen to desert years yanaginagi my goat fr on god on kamisama.
:ponyta: :wailmer: :chinchou: :gastly: :snubbull: :elekid: finals vs celdanami
before i get into it, this version of the team is more standard, my original version that i loaded in finals had salac on gastly with endure instead of thief, mainly as an anti bullshit response to other salac mons that can go 2 for 1 with boom (ty violet river for idea). ultimately though i just built with smth i feel comfortable piloting, i rly like having two water checks due to prevelance of wailmer and chinchou, gastly also can respond to chinchou well as theyd fear giga drain and thief, but it just has good defensive utility in general with normal immunity. having chinchou means i can make my wailmer more physically defensive along with snubbull which is rly nice vs things like anorith and doduo. then to finish it we have petaya elekid, get some chip on mons like chinchou and snubbull and this mon is scary af, doduo and trapinch are issue but u can play around them.
names are all alstroemeria songs with mican*, lotus road and scarlet fogbound might actually be top 10 alstroemeria songs for me tbh (for reference bad apple might not even be top 20 thats how good they are esp in 2006-2011 or so).
i played in a few adv lc teamtour games since advpl, including one today with a baltoy of all things, but the teams i used were built primarily by my teammates with me just adjusting one or two things to my comfort so i dont think its my place to post them. i know few of our players posted teams in the discord but as i said earlier i do encourage them to post here on the forums for more visibility if they so wish. but yea regardless i hope these posts and this teamdump is useful to people in some way, hope everyone enjoys getting some adv lc laddering this month, ik i maybe spent more words talking about songs than needed but idc people gotta tap innnnnn anyways stay bless
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Hello. In light of adv lc being playable once again on ladder, I've been inspired to do a little team dump + LCPL review. Is this the best timing for this considering I'm playing ADVLTL right now? Probably not, but it is what it is.
Aaaaaaaaaaand, that's all. That's all the games I played in LCPL. Yep, that's it.
Enjoy using these teams, I know I had a lot of fun making them. Do note that some of these are very non-standard but they're great teams all the same. LCPL was a very fun experience even though it didn't quite pan out the way I thought it would. Shoutout rineko and xonks for helping with quite a few of these, I think I really expanded my ADV LC skillset working on these with you. Also Shing for being the most goated council member I've met, he's amazing to be around and play/talk ADV LC with. Thank you for everything you've done for this metagame dawg <3
I'm looking forward to all the new shit that gets discovered with the increased activity!
:chinchou::houndour::trapinch::larvitar::wailmer::voltorb: vs Alder ST (W)
Very cool team. I think lead chou is pretty good just because of the amount of things it can hit for a ton of damage. You'll notice that we have Blizzard on this which is to hit lead Cacnea. If you're a true gambler, you can run Thunder to get rid of max spdef Wailmer lmao. Endure Salac Houndour is great for living an Explosion against Gastly or trapping it better since you can outspeed. Band Trapinch is something I've grown very fond of since it's able to outspeed and kill standard Snubb, which opens up the star of the show, Larvitar. Larvitar is a very straightforward mon. Get one DD up, sweep pretty much everything in the entire tier. Phys def Wailmer is there to not lose to Anorith and Voltorb is Voltorb. Hit hard and fast, steal items, blow the fuck up. Ended up winning this by the skin of my teeth thanks to Larv.
Very cool team. I think lead chou is pretty good just because of the amount of things it can hit for a ton of damage. You'll notice that we have Blizzard on this which is to hit lead Cacnea. If you're a true gambler, you can run Thunder to get rid of max spdef Wailmer lmao. Endure Salac Houndour is great for living an Explosion against Gastly or trapping it better since you can outspeed. Band Trapinch is something I've grown very fond of since it's able to outspeed and kill standard Snubb, which opens up the star of the show, Larvitar. Larvitar is a very straightforward mon. Get one DD up, sweep pretty much everything in the entire tier. Phys def Wailmer is there to not lose to Anorith and Voltorb is Voltorb. Hit hard and fast, steal items, blow the fuck up. Ended up winning this by the skin of my teeth thanks to Larv.
:mankey::voltorb::horsea::lileep::houndour::wailmer: vs Click>Think (W)
I'm fond of this one. Band Mankey is a demon. 80 base attack + Band + 100 BP Stab move is enough to destroy like 99% of the mons in this tier. Spdef Wailmer is just incredibly good and gives us something that can somewhat handle opposing water types. Houndour traps Gastly and Duskull so Mankey doesn't struggle much. Voltorb can set up rain here and if you're feeling risky, can run Splash Plate to OHKO Trapinch with a rain boosted HP Water. Horsea takes advantage of the rain and is just an incredible breaker and sweeper. Lileep is here to help with the electrics and waters. Mirror Coat is a fun move on it that can make your opponent scared to chip you down. Won this one as well, very proud of this team. Maybe the best I built this tour.
I'm fond of this one. Band Mankey is a demon. 80 base attack + Band + 100 BP Stab move is enough to destroy like 99% of the mons in this tier. Spdef Wailmer is just incredibly good and gives us something that can somewhat handle opposing water types. Houndour traps Gastly and Duskull so Mankey doesn't struggle much. Voltorb can set up rain here and if you're feeling risky, can run Splash Plate to OHKO Trapinch with a rain boosted HP Water. Horsea takes advantage of the rain and is just an incredible breaker and sweeper. Lileep is here to help with the electrics and waters. Mirror Coat is a fun move on it that can make your opponent scared to chip you down. Won this one as well, very proud of this team. Maybe the best I built this tour.
:staryu::grimer::wailmer::houndour::elekid::gastly: vs ElectricityCat (L)
I think this was also an amazing team. We've got light screen Staryu which I hold in high regard. In a metagame that revolves so heavily around Sitrus Berry, high damage mitigation like Light Screen on fast mons can throw off your opponent's sequences in a very devastating manner. Staryu also just happens to be a great lead as well. Grimer is here to deal with the electrics and has one of the coolest niches in the entire metagame. It's a Sticky Hold mon. Completely immune to being thieved or knocked off. This makes it one of the best mons in the meta to deal with electric types since it can shrug off the damage, not care about Thief from Torb or Elekid and hit them with a powerful Sludge Bomb or HP Ground. I really think this mon has a lot of potential and I hope to see it used more. Wailmer is here cause it's a great mon, helps with dangerous phys threats like band Doduo or Anorith. Salac Houndour is once again here to make our sun mu winnable and trap Gastly. Elekid is also here to help our overall speed here a bit and hit everything pretty hard with the Boltbeam + HP Grass coverage. Gastly is here to soak up damage from the waters and threaten them with a strong Tbolt or Giga Drain. It can also blow up, which is also good. Sadly, I did end up losing this one due to a devastating crit through Light Screen, but that's the game we play.
I think this was also an amazing team. We've got light screen Staryu which I hold in high regard. In a metagame that revolves so heavily around Sitrus Berry, high damage mitigation like Light Screen on fast mons can throw off your opponent's sequences in a very devastating manner. Staryu also just happens to be a great lead as well. Grimer is here to deal with the electrics and has one of the coolest niches in the entire metagame. It's a Sticky Hold mon. Completely immune to being thieved or knocked off. This makes it one of the best mons in the meta to deal with electric types since it can shrug off the damage, not care about Thief from Torb or Elekid and hit them with a powerful Sludge Bomb or HP Ground. I really think this mon has a lot of potential and I hope to see it used more. Wailmer is here cause it's a great mon, helps with dangerous phys threats like band Doduo or Anorith. Salac Houndour is once again here to make our sun mu winnable and trap Gastly. Elekid is also here to help our overall speed here a bit and hit everything pretty hard with the Boltbeam + HP Grass coverage. Gastly is here to soak up damage from the waters and threaten them with a strong Tbolt or Giga Drain. It can also blow up, which is also good. Sadly, I did end up losing this one due to a devastating crit through Light Screen, but that's the game we play.
:anorith::larvitar::exeggcute::wailmer::elekid::ponyta: vs PoseidonWrath (W)
This team has insane offensive presence, very happy with this team. Lead ano set matches up well into lead Snubb, you live +1 HP Steel and knock off cripples it forever, making it very easy for your Larvitar to sweep. The Larvitar here is HP Bug, which matches better into Lileep. If you'll notice, the Egg set here is very peculiar. This isn't all too common since Eggy is almost always used as sun sweeper but I think there's tons of merit in using it as a defensive check against the various electric and water types in the metagame. Stun Spore is obscenely powerful, twave was banned for a reason. You already know what physdef Wailmer and Elekid do. Ponyta here serves as a powerful breaker that can setup on even water types since it lives hydro from Staryu and Chou in Sun. HP Ground is nice coverage for opposing fire types. Won this match in a very convincing manner, Larv never even hit the field.
This team has insane offensive presence, very happy with this team. Lead ano set matches up well into lead Snubb, you live +1 HP Steel and knock off cripples it forever, making it very easy for your Larvitar to sweep. The Larvitar here is HP Bug, which matches better into Lileep. If you'll notice, the Egg set here is very peculiar. This isn't all too common since Eggy is almost always used as sun sweeper but I think there's tons of merit in using it as a defensive check against the various electric and water types in the metagame. Stun Spore is obscenely powerful, twave was banned for a reason. You already know what physdef Wailmer and Elekid do. Ponyta here serves as a powerful breaker that can setup on even water types since it lives hydro from Staryu and Chou in Sun. HP Ground is nice coverage for opposing fire types. Won this match in a very convincing manner, Larv never even hit the field.
:doduo::gastly::trapinch::mankey::wailmer::elekid: vs Fragments (L)
I'll be honest, this is absolutely not one of my finest teams. And it's a shame it came in such an important week. That being said, I think there are fixes you can make to this that should make it somewhat good. Band Doduo is an absolute demon, I think people don't respect it as much nowadays which is pretty crazy. That Gastly set is HORRIBLE and one of the main reasons I lost. I've made a better version of it since, just run the standard Gastly set with HP Water, don't run that abomination lmao. It's taking unnecessary risks that you don't need to take. Standard Trapinch set, speedcrept a little bit for opposing 8 speed mons. I do believe 3A Thief Mankey has some merit since it can act as an amazing Anorith check. Absolutely explore this idea if you can. Wailmer and Elekid, once again just great mons, add speed and bulk to our team. Quite a few rolls went against us this match but I do think it was my fault for not just running a better Gastly. Live and learn
I'll be honest, this is absolutely not one of my finest teams. And it's a shame it came in such an important week. That being said, I think there are fixes you can make to this that should make it somewhat good. Band Doduo is an absolute demon, I think people don't respect it as much nowadays which is pretty crazy. That Gastly set is HORRIBLE and one of the main reasons I lost. I've made a better version of it since, just run the standard Gastly set with HP Water, don't run that abomination lmao. It's taking unnecessary risks that you don't need to take. Standard Trapinch set, speedcrept a little bit for opposing 8 speed mons. I do believe 3A Thief Mankey has some merit since it can act as an amazing Anorith check. Absolutely explore this idea if you can. Wailmer and Elekid, once again just great mons, add speed and bulk to our team. Quite a few rolls went against us this match but I do think it was my fault for not just running a better Gastly. Live and learn
Aaaaaaaaaaand, that's all. That's all the games I played in LCPL. Yep, that's it.
Enjoy using these teams, I know I had a lot of fun making them. Do note that some of these are very non-standard but they're great teams all the same. LCPL was a very fun experience even though it didn't quite pan out the way I thought it would. Shoutout rineko and xonks for helping with quite a few of these, I think I really expanded my ADV LC skillset working on these with you. Also Shing for being the most goated council member I've met, he's amazing to be around and play/talk ADV LC with. Thank you for everything you've done for this metagame dawg <3
I'm looking forward to all the new shit that gets discovered with the increased activity!
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Sample Teams
The sample teams in the original post have been updated! Thank you to: PoseidonWrath, evakiyama!, shreyashhy, Celdanami, Zcarlett, and especially rineko and Shing for their teams.
The sample teams in the original post have been updated! Thank you to: PoseidonWrath, evakiyama!, shreyashhy, Celdanami, Zcarlett, and especially rineko and Shing for their teams.
:Wailmer: :Cacnea: :Voltorb: :Elekid: :Koffing: :Bagon:
Double Electric + Bagon with Spikes by PoseidonWrath
:Staryu: :Trapinch: :Houndour: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Bagon:
Double Water + Bagon Offense by evakiyama!
:Staryu: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Elekid: :Anorith: :Exeggcute:
Fast Offense with Double Water + Sun by shreyashhy
:Anorith: :Ponyta: :Wailmer: :Chinchou: :Snubbull: :Exeggcute:
Knock Off Anorith with Double Water + Sun by Celdanami
:Cacnea: :Staryu: :Gastly: :Trapinch: :Snubbull: :Exeggcute:
Cacnea Hazard Stack + Sun by Zcarlett
:Ponyta: :Wailmer: :Chinchou: :Gastly: :Snubbull: :Elekid:
Ponyta Lead + Petaya Elekid Balance by rineko
:Doduo: :Chinchou: :Anorith: :Wailmer: :Voltorb: :Bagon:
Doduo Lead + DD Bagon Offence by rineko
:Snubbull: :Magnemite: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Voltorb: :Horsea:
Rain team with Double Electric + Snubbull Lead by Shing
:Chinchou: :Koffing: :Trapinch: :Voltorb: :Wailmer: :Elekid:
Triple Electric + Double Water balance by Shing
:Voltorb: :Trapinch: :Cacnea: :Chinchou: :Anorith: :Lileep:
Voltorb Lead + Hazard Stack Balance by Shing
Sample sets for any Pokemon on the Viability Ranking can be found on the Smogon Strategy Pokedex.
Double Electric + Bagon with Spikes by PoseidonWrath
:Staryu: :Trapinch: :Houndour: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Bagon:
Double Water + Bagon Offense by evakiyama!
:Staryu: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Elekid: :Anorith: :Exeggcute:
Fast Offense with Double Water + Sun by shreyashhy
:Anorith: :Ponyta: :Wailmer: :Chinchou: :Snubbull: :Exeggcute:
Knock Off Anorith with Double Water + Sun by Celdanami
:Cacnea: :Staryu: :Gastly: :Trapinch: :Snubbull: :Exeggcute:
Cacnea Hazard Stack + Sun by Zcarlett
:Ponyta: :Wailmer: :Chinchou: :Gastly: :Snubbull: :Elekid:
Ponyta Lead + Petaya Elekid Balance by rineko
:Doduo: :Chinchou: :Anorith: :Wailmer: :Voltorb: :Bagon:
Doduo Lead + DD Bagon Offence by rineko
:Snubbull: :Magnemite: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Voltorb: :Horsea:
Rain team with Double Electric + Snubbull Lead by Shing
:Chinchou: :Koffing: :Trapinch: :Voltorb: :Wailmer: :Elekid:
Triple Electric + Double Water balance by Shing
:Voltorb: :Trapinch: :Cacnea: :Chinchou: :Anorith: :Lileep:
Voltorb Lead + Hazard Stack Balance by Shing
Sample sets for any Pokemon on the Viability Ranking can be found on the Smogon Strategy Pokedex.
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Since I didn't deliver the team dump that I promised a week + a few days ago, and there's a ladder + RoA Swiss tournament that everyone should join, I've decided to prioritize uploading all the post-Abra teams instead of doing it in order. Originally, it was going to be my personal set compendium + an overall history of set compendium based on my knowledge and my quick VR, along with it, then my team dump from older meta-periods and so on till the post-Abra team dump, but considering I've overloaded myself, it ended up me procrastinating on them instead. So, as my apology, I'll put this much earlier than originally planned.
Week 1 vs Celdanami
To make it short, I didn't really prep properly vs Celdanami due to massive exhaustion at LCCL, LC classic, and university in combination. So I ended up using a reused team I've given others, as it had a strong matchup at lead and Cubone is one of my favourite mons overall in general. This came back to bite me as Celdanami surprised me a ton by bringing a Wailmer lead; something he didn't show a ton in the build. The insane mixup was the EQ Wailmer, which made it way too hard to come back vs him. This is why if you're bringing a mon that gets OHKO'd to Wailmer T1, you're making at least Chinchou + another mon like Gastly/Lileep, or bring the easier variation of your own Wailmer, 76 SpDef Staryu, Poliwag(lol), etc. I'll say that having Celdanami in week 1 was possibly the worst imaginable positon you could give me considering prior to that I've played and talked so much Celdanami to the point he had my resources of many teams, my structures and understanding how I build and how I approached the tier while I was on brink of overheating due to the factors above as I mentioned. I basically gave him almost everything I could tell him on how the meta functioned, and that came back to bite me extremely hard. Not super happy that I'm 0-2 against him in team tours(1-2 or 2-2 if you count individuals), but this was my fault for getting destroyed in the end, even if I have the amount of whiny excuses I could make. The team itself is fine, but I'm not sure if it approaches Celdanami's teams, as he tends to be as a player takes conditions and risk in a frustrating, but scary way, so I've to prevent him from getting absurd "unfair" positions such as bringing Sub SD Anorith, Wailmer sequences, Abra CM with some specific bulk + right coverage, sub abusing as well bc he will stay in or understand when you're feeling scared and take advantage of that over most people I know. Either way, I think Celdanami was more than likely top 2-3 player if Abra was on here just because he knows how to be cheap and punish the normal tendencies af. I did get something out of Celdanami's loss so I'm happy enough to take the loss without being so salty about it.
Week 2 vs Hacker
I enjoyed this game a lot. I don't really care about the luck because I think the mu was in my favour in a way where even if I got unlucky, I still had a good chance to win this. I'll say I didn't like how my team didn't really respond accordingly to Snubbull lead T1-T3, and a huge opportunity being missed was to SD on T18. Obviously, Rock Blast hitting and killing would've most likely given me the win, but I missed strong play that would give me the win without risking the RNG. But yeah, playing vs Hacker again was fun because he plays well enough and I have a strong bias to enjoy quality games where pivoting is a necessity instead of being forced to play this 1v1 staying. As for the team itself, I loved double electric as it was the only other viable team structure that didn't need Abra in the building, in my mind. I'm not sure if the team can be adjusted to modern meta, but if I were to make a quick adjustment, I'd have to change EVs and maybe the moveset on Anorith and Voltorb, and remove Duskull since that mon doesn't have enough meaningful progress for the team.
Week 3 vs PoseidonWrath
Lmao, who let Wrath bring Heysup teams. All I can say is that he brought awesome af teams, and I clutched that endgame with Agility Horsea with the bulk that let me tank +1 Double Edge in the end, holy... I fuck with this team a lot since Agility + Boost Berries are some of my favourite strategies to use in this meta. To understand why, +1 Horsea hits slightly harder than in rain, and HP Grass/Ice Beam does so much damage. This team is probably very wacky, but double electric + Abra has a lot of funny customization that promotes weird ass creativity in my mind.
Week 4 vs Rineko
TL;DR I've been a big Abra lead hater and most ppl know it, but considering Rineko was very prone to that, I took the opportunity for once. Ngl, I thought I won from that early game alone, but then T15 and T18 happened, and I got pretty owned. T16 I should've exploded, especially since I was hasty, but I think I just went tbolt bc I assumed they had smth immune behind there, and I may think this was timid since explosion has a roll to not kill, so uh lmao. Well, if Idt there was much help anyway bc Trapinch gets owned by 2+ Anorith, and honestly I only won this because I got bailed at the end. Second time I am getting bailed vs her like that(first one being vs Raichy w rineko support lmao), and I didn't deserve that win.
Notes: No more Abra since we gentlemanned with no Abra, and Abra went to get banned after Week 5.
Week 5 vs Shreyashhy
I wasn't originally going to play this week, but then I felt motivated to continue my win streak vs Shreyashhy and asked to be subbed to troll Evaki, and lemme tell you I built the most unhinged shit Shrey was not gonna prepare for post-abra meta LMAO. Rain was unpopular, and I was super inspired by natu 's CB Wailmer team, and wanted to brute force through Shrey. In-game, I intentionally used the timer to condition Shrey to stay in as a dirty tactic to get the play I wanted. After that, a lil lucky crit on Togepi and the classic 12 Speed Koffing I've used for the second time to troll the Exeggcute. Knowing the Elekid set was Light Screen T20, I'd argue the game was in my favour despite him having double grass sun lmao. This was definitely one of the vibe checks idt Shrey could predict based on the current knowledge he has on the tier. Also, Magby was there to win the thief wars against Gastly sequences, which is also why I think Magby has a place for this meta btw.
Zcarlett W6-W7
Short said, I didn't rlly involve as much in the weeks, and even if I did, she was the one that made it, and I'm letting her decide to post them. The week 7 team vs Alder was smth I built from after midnight btw lmfao. And that team is in the sample team for your information.
Semifinals vs Rineko
My team was already out, but I still wanted to play regardless. This team is wack, I'll admit... But I really liked how it went out for me, as this complements my knowledge and highlights the mons and sets that are personally my favourite, despite the lack of usage on them. As for the match, it is the definition of highlighting some of my tendencies, as I like to switch a lot to make reads, and Rineko was not having any of it. Somewhere on T16-T18 is where Rineko made a huge mistake of sacrificing Wailmer and not aggressively switching in Charmander, as her assumption of my Treecko set was HP Water, which is a set I've never even thought of, as my go-to move is always HP Ice for Grasses + Bagon. Because of that tho, there's a reasonable case to change HP Ice to HP Water on Treecko sets for Fire Types + Anorith. This was also a bail because she was overthinking here a bit, and I think I pretty much lost if it wasn't for that sequence there. Kinda 3-0 or 4-0 against her, but it doesn't feel right to say it atleast... But I'll say she has improved much better, even if the overall LC community doesn't take her at face value, as I see her as a top-valued ADV LC player for any team to have. I hope you get more justice in the future.
I admit I regret joining ADVPL VI as how it interfered with my irl, and forced the team to sub me for three weeks, mind you. My activity was just dogshit, and I disliked the Abra meta as it felt like I was crashing out. But I'm thankful to be in one of the bestest teams I've ever been, and god I wish I was in Finals just because everyone was so fun to talk with ;-;. Special thanks to Zcarlett for stepping in for me whenever I needed to step out.
Either way, 4-2 and only beaten by Hacker is fine enough. This tournament had four players at 4-x, but I ended with the best 4-x out of anyone in the end haha
I'll say though that I gave Feen a team on W1 that belongs to Zcarlett from W7 ADVPL VI, aka Rineko's team partner,,,,,,, I'm not sorry for that one Rineko; blame Zcarlett for that one lmfao
Week 4 Browts vs Scioncle
I don't think we did prep this one as hard, as the more I know about Click, the more I understood he liked to bring unique/less nommed mons, and I think we had Togepi mainly bc I just tested around this mon and we just played together in friendlies. It's a viable lead that can spread para while not dying to any Anorith sets(Rock Blast does not count fu) in t1 btw.
Anyway, the team is not easy to pivot and requires the player to have some experience to understand whether to respect it or not. But it give me that confidence that Togepi is a viable mon in the tier for its obscure utility. As for the match itself, I'm not gonna talk much bout it :x
The alternative team Omega lost to Gastly + Lileep core, as goddamn Alder owned me hard with that core lmfao.
Week 4 Dratinis vs Fragments
Felt like building some good ol hazard stack, while avoiding building very complicated builds for Feen. This one is a strong classic core I've used before, although the more I look at it right now Idk if it's actually aged well. Either way it was quite good vs Fragments, but unfortunately idk how to say bout the match except I was malding af in laroyxl's dms. Like how the fuck did you lose to Elekid and Trapinch in T10 and T11, BRO. Trapinch would have helped against SD HP Ghost Anorith for crying out loud bruh, I'm so mad at that match that I am not gonna continue talking bout this.
Week 5 Browts vs ElectricityCat
Posted Meowth lead teams for fun, and Click asked me how viable Meowth is, and here we are. This team was the definition of overcooking, and I'm not shocked to see Ecat win here. I'll say Modest Elekid was insanely crazy cooking wtf LOL. Should've known based on my and Raichy's conversations LOL. I will say that this was one of the instances where Click lacked the game knowledge and intuition to pivot the game, shown in a very noticeable way. Fortunately, their team won 7-3, so we're good.
Week 5 Dratinis vs Scionicle
(Snubbull was like 12 in Speed and had Rain Dance over main team)
I don't remember the prep as much on this one, but I'll say the prep was awful when you realize the best way our team could stop vs opposing Snubbull was outspeeding it with 11 speed fishing, which came to bite on our ass LMAO. Idt David could have won this one, because Evaki did an amazing job at prepping and breaking down David Watts. Admittedly, I knew we should have avoided using too much Anorith and Snubbull, but I kinda struggled at building this week, so I went with this route, and it was a very deserved loss. Sorry for that, David.
Week 6 Browts vs Dratini
Ordered how good I think teams are from top to bottom.
The scout was just what I noted from W5, lots of Anorith + Snubbull, so Click was feeling bring Pineco teams. Idk why I built 9 Pineco + Onix teams though, but it was probably because Pineco is one of the most fun mons to build with personally and Onix is quite underrated in ADV LC imo. When I saw Feen pulling that Spoink lead MU, it was like giving us the best Christmas gift you could get. Will say tho Click's issues on t17 annoyed me rlly hard, but overall I think the game was played as well as it could. At this point, prepping against David was still easy enough due to his inexperience on high-stakes team tours, and I'll admit it was nice to take revenge on him after him beating me at ADV LC Open II as grudgeful as I can be.
I didn't help Click at all in Week 7 as Browts were extremely guaranteed in playoffs, and I wanted him to build for himself to see how much he learned from the weeks. I do think I was a bit too harsh on that, as his team wasn't bad, but there were some minor adjustments that could have helped a lot going forward, such as bringing Sitrus on Cacnea on that team etc. The gameplay from Click was underwhelming to say the least, unfortunately. Sorry for just leaving you like that; hope that didn't kill your motivation for the tier itself.
Week 7 Dratinis vs Alder ST
Not sure how I can describe the scout besides Alder had such absurd usage on Elekid and other minor things I forget. But this week I wanted to try Modest Voltorb lead, inspired by Ecat's Modest Elekid but with some weird reverse engineering structure because the build is not ordinary and approaches the tier more defensively, as the team is a balance team to counteract Offense a bit more. I'll say I changed my mind a ton when I saw Feen playing the game vs Alder because he did plays I didn't think he would, and that would help me figure out how I should prep teams for Feen specifically in the finals. Regardless, I'm extremely happy with the build and how Feen played it out.
Semifinals Browts vs Dratini
Because of what happened in W7, the manager + some others took the decision to change Click to Leni. This would be such a risky decision, as Click still had a respectable score, while Leni barely played ADV LC. But if you know Leni and me, we are literally partners in crime, as I've built teams with Leni in NFE tiers and many team tournaments. Which means I know Leni more than most others do and understand how he plays and wins. Prepping vs Feen was annoying just because preparing vs myself, in like thinking ahead, is such a pain in the ass. But eventually I went with a team with Anorith + Lileep, which is an odd core that works, and I like using it a lot. The prep was kinda alright, but I didn't expect them to use Magnemite and Rain as well. The MU may be doable for Feen to win, but I think vs everything else there were a lot of questions on how the team handled vs Elekid Tbolt/HPGround/IcePunch overall. Even if Browts lost in the end, the server was such a vibe as they had all the Nordic and my goat Kaboom in there <333
Finals vs Scioncle
I was kinda tired of building, as I felt completely burnt out. But on the last day, and some discussions with David, I found a bit of fire to build once again with Chinchou lead, a lead I personally dislike or find extremely overrated/weak on Lead. Originally it was going to be a Modest Voltorb lead, but I didn't find a perfect team I could be happy with, so I went with Chinchou + Double Electric + Koffing, a core I reused from the Abra meta. Ended up really liking how the team looked, so I went deep to check if the sequences worked and to cover Scioncle's high usage on Gastly + Trapinch. As for the match, that crit on Elekid really ruined so much in the long term, and the only position I could see Scioncle win is calling out Elekid's sub-spamming on Chinchou with Anorith and getting lucky with Rock Blast. But at this point I think Scioncle was too tilted, which let Feen get a clean late game.
Despite the beef Browts and Dratini have with each other, I'm thankful you guys didn't hold any glares against me when I helped both, or for Dratini when I prioritized Browts. I enjoyed my time on both servers and wish the best to both teams in the future on this site.
To Browts, thank you for making my time on the server so enjoyable, and it was just fun to hang out with Nordics + Kaboom, like they had some of my favourite peeps to hang out on a team server. And bigger personal thanks to Quagg and Fille that has known me since the NFE days, and it was nice to just hang out together one time again...
To Dratini, despite having a bit of low activity, I thank you for being involved in some of the decisions, such as getting David Watts in the LCPL. It's also nice to help Cooper for the second time, and be involved in a team with you, Laroxyl, for the third time :). As we were together in LCBL, I'm glad y'all got the runback for LCPL; great ass job <3
There are more post-abra teams from LC classic, but I haven't made a post about it. So once I do, I'll edit this post as a link since it will be a separate one. Click here to see my post-Abra teams at LC Classic Playoffs!
ADVPL VI
Notes: Abra was legal from Week 1 to Week 5.Week 1 vs Celdanami
To make it short, I didn't really prep properly vs Celdanami due to massive exhaustion at LCCL, LC classic, and university in combination. So I ended up using a reused team I've given others, as it had a strong matchup at lead and Cubone is one of my favourite mons overall in general. This came back to bite me as Celdanami surprised me a ton by bringing a Wailmer lead; something he didn't show a ton in the build. The insane mixup was the EQ Wailmer, which made it way too hard to come back vs him. This is why if you're bringing a mon that gets OHKO'd to Wailmer T1, you're making at least Chinchou + another mon like Gastly/Lileep, or bring the easier variation of your own Wailmer, 76 SpDef Staryu, Poliwag(lol), etc. I'll say that having Celdanami in week 1 was possibly the worst imaginable positon you could give me considering prior to that I've played and talked so much Celdanami to the point he had my resources of many teams, my structures and understanding how I build and how I approached the tier while I was on brink of overheating due to the factors above as I mentioned. I basically gave him almost everything I could tell him on how the meta functioned, and that came back to bite me extremely hard. Not super happy that I'm 0-2 against him in team tours(1-2 or 2-2 if you count individuals), but this was my fault for getting destroyed in the end, even if I have the amount of whiny excuses I could make. The team itself is fine, but I'm not sure if it approaches Celdanami's teams, as he tends to be as a player takes conditions and risk in a frustrating, but scary way, so I've to prevent him from getting absurd "unfair" positions such as bringing Sub SD Anorith, Wailmer sequences, Abra CM with some specific bulk + right coverage, sub abusing as well bc he will stay in or understand when you're feeling scared and take advantage of that over most people I know. Either way, I think Celdanami was more than likely top 2-3 player if Abra was on here just because he knows how to be cheap and punish the normal tendencies af. I did get something out of Celdanami's loss so I'm happy enough to take the loss without being so salty about it.
Week 2 vs Hacker
I enjoyed this game a lot. I don't really care about the luck because I think the mu was in my favour in a way where even if I got unlucky, I still had a good chance to win this. I'll say I didn't like how my team didn't really respond accordingly to Snubbull lead T1-T3, and a huge opportunity being missed was to SD on T18. Obviously, Rock Blast hitting and killing would've most likely given me the win, but I missed strong play that would give me the win without risking the RNG. But yeah, playing vs Hacker again was fun because he plays well enough and I have a strong bias to enjoy quality games where pivoting is a necessity instead of being forced to play this 1v1 staying. As for the team itself, I loved double electric as it was the only other viable team structure that didn't need Abra in the building, in my mind. I'm not sure if the team can be adjusted to modern meta, but if I were to make a quick adjustment, I'd have to change EVs and maybe the moveset on Anorith and Voltorb, and remove Duskull since that mon doesn't have enough meaningful progress for the team.
Week 3 vs PoseidonWrath
Lmao, who let Wrath bring Heysup teams. All I can say is that he brought awesome af teams, and I clutched that endgame with Agility Horsea with the bulk that let me tank +1 Double Edge in the end, holy... I fuck with this team a lot since Agility + Boost Berries are some of my favourite strategies to use in this meta. To understand why, +1 Horsea hits slightly harder than in rain, and HP Grass/Ice Beam does so much damage. This team is probably very wacky, but double electric + Abra has a lot of funny customization that promotes weird ass creativity in my mind.
Week 4 vs Rineko
TL;DR I've been a big Abra lead hater and most ppl know it, but considering Rineko was very prone to that, I took the opportunity for once. Ngl, I thought I won from that early game alone, but then T15 and T18 happened, and I got pretty owned. T16 I should've exploded, especially since I was hasty, but I think I just went tbolt bc I assumed they had smth immune behind there, and I may think this was timid since explosion has a roll to not kill, so uh lmao. Well, if Idt there was much help anyway bc Trapinch gets owned by 2+ Anorith, and honestly I only won this because I got bailed at the end. Second time I am getting bailed vs her like that(first one being vs Raichy w rineko support lmao), and I didn't deserve that win.
Notes: No more Abra since we gentlemanned with no Abra, and Abra went to get banned after Week 5.
Week 5 vs Shreyashhy
I wasn't originally going to play this week, but then I felt motivated to continue my win streak vs Shreyashhy and asked to be subbed to troll Evaki, and lemme tell you I built the most unhinged shit Shrey was not gonna prepare for post-abra meta LMAO. Rain was unpopular, and I was super inspired by natu 's CB Wailmer team, and wanted to brute force through Shrey. In-game, I intentionally used the timer to condition Shrey to stay in as a dirty tactic to get the play I wanted. After that, a lil lucky crit on Togepi and the classic 12 Speed Koffing I've used for the second time to troll the Exeggcute. Knowing the Elekid set was Light Screen T20, I'd argue the game was in my favour despite him having double grass sun lmao. This was definitely one of the vibe checks idt Shrey could predict based on the current knowledge he has on the tier. Also, Magby was there to win the thief wars against Gastly sequences, which is also why I think Magby has a place for this meta btw.
Zcarlett W6-W7
Short said, I didn't rlly involve as much in the weeks, and even if I did, she was the one that made it, and I'm letting her decide to post them. The week 7 team vs Alder was smth I built from after midnight btw lmfao. And that team is in the sample team for your information.
Semifinals vs Rineko
My team was already out, but I still wanted to play regardless. This team is wack, I'll admit... But I really liked how it went out for me, as this complements my knowledge and highlights the mons and sets that are personally my favourite, despite the lack of usage on them. As for the match, it is the definition of highlighting some of my tendencies, as I like to switch a lot to make reads, and Rineko was not having any of it. Somewhere on T16-T18 is where Rineko made a huge mistake of sacrificing Wailmer and not aggressively switching in Charmander, as her assumption of my Treecko set was HP Water, which is a set I've never even thought of, as my go-to move is always HP Ice for Grasses + Bagon. Because of that tho, there's a reasonable case to change HP Ice to HP Water on Treecko sets for Fire Types + Anorith. This was also a bail because she was overthinking here a bit, and I think I pretty much lost if it wasn't for that sequence there. Kinda 3-0 or 4-0 against her, but it doesn't feel right to say it atleast... But I'll say she has improved much better, even if the overall LC community doesn't take her at face value, as I see her as a top-valued ADV LC player for any team to have. I hope you get more justice in the future.
I admit I regret joining ADVPL VI as how it interfered with my irl, and forced the team to sub me for three weeks, mind you. My activity was just dogshit, and I disliked the Abra meta as it felt like I was crashing out. But I'm thankful to be in one of the bestest teams I've ever been, and god I wish I was in Finals just because everyone was so fun to talk with ;-;. Special thanks to Zcarlett for stepping in for me whenever I needed to step out.
Either way, 4-2 and only beaten by Hacker is fine enough. This tournament had four players at 4-x, but I ended with the best 4-x out of anyone in the end haha
LCPL XV
I didn't help any teams from Week 1 to Week 3 because of exams, traveling back home, and moving things to the new apartment. Browts(Fille) and Dratini(Cooper) understood this, and they were hella ready to have me in their team server in Week 4. I'll say that when both of them fought, I prioritized Browts over Dratini, and there was nothing bad happened to me. Everyone was understanding and respectable so when I rejoined Dratini, they treated me well and let me focus on the tier I was helping at.I'll say though that I gave Feen a team on W1 that belongs to Zcarlett from W7 ADVPL VI, aka Rineko's team partner,,,,,,, I'm not sorry for that one Rineko; blame Zcarlett for that one lmfao
Week 4 Browts vs Scioncle
Anyway, the team is not easy to pivot and requires the player to have some experience to understand whether to respect it or not. But it give me that confidence that Togepi is a viable mon in the tier for its obscure utility. As for the match itself, I'm not gonna talk much bout it :x
The alternative team Omega lost to Gastly + Lileep core, as goddamn Alder owned me hard with that core lmfao.
Week 4 Dratinis vs Fragments
Week 5 Browts vs ElectricityCat
Week 5 Dratinis vs Scionicle
Week 6 Browts vs Dratini
Ordered how good I think teams are from top to bottom.
I didn't help Click at all in Week 7 as Browts were extremely guaranteed in playoffs, and I wanted him to build for himself to see how much he learned from the weeks. I do think I was a bit too harsh on that, as his team wasn't bad, but there were some minor adjustments that could have helped a lot going forward, such as bringing Sitrus on Cacnea on that team etc. The gameplay from Click was underwhelming to say the least, unfortunately. Sorry for just leaving you like that; hope that didn't kill your motivation for the tier itself.
Week 7 Dratinis vs Alder ST
Semifinals Browts vs Dratini
Because of what happened in W7, the manager + some others took the decision to change Click to Leni. This would be such a risky decision, as Click still had a respectable score, while Leni barely played ADV LC. But if you know Leni and me, we are literally partners in crime, as I've built teams with Leni in NFE tiers and many team tournaments. Which means I know Leni more than most others do and understand how he plays and wins. Prepping vs Feen was annoying just because preparing vs myself, in like thinking ahead, is such a pain in the ass. But eventually I went with a team with Anorith + Lileep, which is an odd core that works, and I like using it a lot. The prep was kinda alright, but I didn't expect them to use Magnemite and Rain as well. The MU may be doable for Feen to win, but I think vs everything else there were a lot of questions on how the team handled vs Elekid Tbolt/HPGround/IcePunch overall. Even if Browts lost in the end, the server was such a vibe as they had all the Nordic and my goat Kaboom in there <333
Finals vs Scioncle
Despite the beef Browts and Dratini have with each other, I'm thankful you guys didn't hold any glares against me when I helped both, or for Dratini when I prioritized Browts. I enjoyed my time on both servers and wish the best to both teams in the future on this site.
To Browts, thank you for making my time on the server so enjoyable, and it was just fun to hang out with Nordics + Kaboom, like they had some of my favourite peeps to hang out on a team server. And bigger personal thanks to Quagg and Fille that has known me since the NFE days, and it was nice to just hang out together one time again...
To Dratini, despite having a bit of low activity, I thank you for being involved in some of the decisions, such as getting David Watts in the LCPL. It's also nice to help Cooper for the second time, and be involved in a team with you, Laroxyl, for the third time :). As we were together in LCBL, I'm glad y'all got the runback for LCPL; great ass job <3
Attachments
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As I made that LCBC post, I realized I've skipped LPL 13, and due to neglect, I haven't posted the teams from ADVPL V, LCPL XIV, ADVLTL, LPL 14, and then Greedy's invitationals. Since all of these teams are invalid nowadays, and there are just so many teams to post, I'll just make a quick teamdump on all of them, as I'm impatient to wait with the mindset of posting all of them at once. I also forgot a lot of details on how the team was formed and prepped vs my opponent. If anyone mentioned here wants to hear the details on how I prepared, personally go and DM me, and I may just remember. As usual, click the pictures to get the teams, and maybe I'll make some comments if it's interesting enough.
LPL 13
W1::Staryu: :Doduo: :Pineco: :Diglett: :Magnemite: :Bagon:
:Ponyta: :Koffing: :Gastly: :Houndour: :Trapinch: :Staryu:
W2:
:Wailmer: :Trapinch: :Gastly: :Abra: :Magnemite: :Bagon:
The reason why Gastly has Sludge Bomb was that, at that time, my intuition told me that Cacnea had too many free positions to get in, and since Cacnea tends to be a strong switch-in to Gastly to set up Spikes for free, I added it there to punish that interaction. There may also be that Reggg at that did talk about offensive Cacnea, but it's been a while, so I just wanted to mention that Sludge Bomb was there for a reason.
:Chinchou: :Gastly: :Snubbull: :Voltorb: :Horsea: :Diglett:
Couldn't find the original paste, but I'd believe it was this team, but changed at the last minute before the match. Also got the idea of HP Ground bc of Reggg at one of our conversations, iirc.
:Lileep: :Staryu: :Ponyta: :Diglett: :Elekid: :Treecko:
W5:
:Magnemite: :Diglett: :Gastly: :Wailmer: :Exeggcute: :Elekid:
AM is better than me; I just get bailed vs him a lot lol
:Abra: :Oddish: :Ponyta: :Diglett: :Snubbull: :Voltorb:
W7:
:Meowth: :Koffing: :Chinchou: :Trapinch: :Wailmer: :Abra: :Elekid:
:Elekid: :Koffing: :Trapinch: :Houndour: :Wailmer: :Voltorb:
Semis:
:Pineco: :Abra: :Duskull: :Wailmer: :Voltorb: :Bagon:
I played this match just before I had to go on board the airplane, switched from my laptop to my phone, and had to play this bad matchup through some outplays and luck, and a bit of inexperience for Alder's first department of ADV LC iirc. This is definitely ingrained in my mind because when the announcer shouted my name while playing this set was one of those moments of all time.
:Koffing: :Snubbull: :Staryu: :Diglett: :Elekid: :Treecko:
:Doduo: :Cacnea: :Wailmer: :Diglett: :Gastly: :Voltorb:
LPL 14 aka Naere roasting on ADV Channel
W4: :Cubone: :Gastly: :Wailmer: :Snubbull: :Exeggcute: :Elekid:
Semifinals: :Staryu: :Anorith: :Trapinch: :Elekid: :Voltorb: :Snubbull:
Finals: :Anorith: :Snubbull: :Wailmer: :Elekid: :Diglett: :Oddish:
Finals Tiebreaker: :Voltorb: :Cacnea: :Wailmer: :Gastly: :Trapinch: :Abra:
ADVPL V
Special thanks to Colin once again for covering four weeks for me when IRL had to be prioritized; love u manW1: :Snubbull: :Gastly: :Diglett: :Wailmer: :Lileep: :Abra:
W2: :Doduo: :Cacnea: :Elekid: :Wailmer: :Diglett: :Snubbull:
Peep on that T7-11 and then T13-18 holy bangers
Colin W4: :Abra: :Koffing: :Trapinch: :Staryu: :Lileep: :Elekid:
W5: :Snubbull: :Exeggcute: :Oddish: :Gastly: :Wailmer: :Diglett:
Colin W6: :Wailmer: :Doduo: :Diglett: :Magnemite: :Gastly: :Lileep:
Colin W7: :Gastly: :Diglett: :Wailmer: :Lileep: :Houndour: :Voltorb:
Semifinals: :Houndour: :Trapinch: :Voltorb: :Wailmer: :Koffing: :Exeggcute:
If you're thinking of using this in the current meta, please don't. This is the worst build I've genuinely brought in a team tournament as it broke so many principles that I have, and it's gonna get rocked super hard in this current meta. Dogass team with fun concept though, like Sub + Protect Houndour to stall out Water Spout/Hydro Pump PPs from Wailmer.
Second time getting bailed by Rineko's builds LMAOOOOOOO. Was hella over if Rineko implemented 9 Speed on Trapinch lol.
LCPL XIV
W1: :Abra: :Diglett: :Lileep: :Gastly: :Wailmer: :Snubbull:W2: :Staryu: :Koffing: :Elekid: :Trapinch: :Voltorb: :Wailmer:
Alder fucked me so hard in this tournament, and I think I automatically lost from that Para on Elekid alone lmao rough
I think Gawain would have ultra dominated me if he brought more normal/standard sets on some of the mons like Exegg bc no Solarbeam is crazy bro....
Weird week since this was the same week I also fought against him for ADVLTL, so the prep was a bit different than usual
W6: :Wailmer: :Cacnea: :Gastly: :Horsea: :Snubbull: :Voltorb:
W7: :Seel: :Diglett: :Anorith: :Gastly: :Wailmer: :Elekid:
:Krabby: :Voltorb: :Trapinch: :Abra: :Wailmer: :Lileep:
Semifinals: :Wailmer: :Cacnea: :Anorith: :Diglett: :Abra: :Snubbull:
ADVLTL
W1: :Pineco: :Snubbull: :Wailmer: :Abra: :Diglett: :Elekid::Doduo: :Chinchou: :Trapinch: :Snubbull: :Lileep: :Voltorb:
:Oddish: :Houndour: :Trapinch: :Wailmer: :Voltorb: :Bagon:
W2: :Snubbull: :Cacnea: :Wailmer: :Diglett: :Abra: :Exeggcute:
W3: :Voltorb: :Wailmer: :Doduo: :Anorith: :Diglett: :Lileep:
W4: :Doduo: :Wailmer: :Anorith: :Diglett: :Gastly: :Ponyta:
:Cacnea: :Wailmer: :Trapinch: :Abra: :Elekid: :Anorith:
W5: :Pineco: :Staryu: :Gastly: :Diglett: :Growlithe: :Wailmer:
:Wailmer: :Anorith: :Gastly: :Abra: :Trapinch: :Larvitar:
:Wailmer: :Snubbull: :Diglett: :Taillow: :Voltorb: :Horsea:
GREEDY'S INVITATIONAL
In this tournament, you ban/strike before picking the tier, so not a shocker that most people banned ADV vs me. However, I did end up helping a decent amount of players, but I honestly forget who it was exactly. Once I figure that out, I'll edit in the post here.Vs Jake: :Anorith: :Gastly: :Lileep: :Chinchou: :Abra: :Snubbull:
Vs Corckscrew: :Bagon: :Anorith: :Elekid: :Chinchou: :Abra: :Charmander:
LCCL
Tournament was honestly disappointing performance-wise for me, but at this point with so many things happening, and then I was frustratingly annoyed with Abra-Meta, I'd have crashed out if it wasn't for a week break ngl. [EDITED] Forgot to add this in.W1: :Chinchou: :Voltorb: :Anorith: :Bagon: :Abra: :Wailmer:
W2: :Koffing: :Carvanha: :Chinchou: :Duskull: :Abra: :Voltorb:
W3: :Snubbull: :Gastly: :Wailmer: :Abra: :Elekid: :Trapinch:
W5: :Doduo: :Onix: :Abra: :Chinchou: :Snubbull: :Elekid:
Semifinals: :Wailmer: :Cacnea: :Elekid: :Voltorb: :Carvanha: :Koffing:
The SpDef investment on Carvanha is necessary in order to survive guaranteed vs Tbolt Elekid with screen support, guaranteed.
Generally, when it came to Shrey, I've often played defensively and invalidated his offensive progress as that was his main strength when progressing the tier based on my knowledge. This team here can probably work in modern meta with some tweaks, or a different water with Wailmer + Gastly > Abra as well.
Since the post isn't so long, I want to post the pastes that cover the periods before the bans occurred, from day 1 till today.
Pre Low-Acc/Twave Ban: https://pokepast.es/ae671775a1cb8cc3
Pre Porygon Ban: https://pokepast.es/e160942728c160eb
Pre Diglett Ban: https://pokepast.es/291551153d634a20
Pre Abra Ban(and some ADV LC UU teams since I'm lazy to remove em): https://pokepast.es/ffd3c68348821f46
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2026 LTL Teams:
Gonna update these as I go~
Week 1: https://pokepast.es/4b2fa04d120dac60
Week 2: https://pokepast.es/b3cce7ac732ec476
Gonna update these as I go~
Week 1: https://pokepast.es/4b2fa04d120dac60
Week 2: https://pokepast.es/b3cce7ac732ec476
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Had such an urge to talk about ADV LC sets I've adjusted/seen on tours, so let's go through them before the urge diminishes. I'll order the sets by the VR I've made right now.
With that said, time to go through the ADV LC sets I want to talk about, starting with...
:Wailmer:
This old Wailmer set is outdated and too flawed for three reasons. This has a 6.3% chance to die from CB Doduo(and I HATE 6.3%), has unfavourable rolls to die from Water Spout + HP Grass from Wailmer, and the damage output is extremely questionable outside of Ice Beam Damage vs Bagon and Spikes dmg output. I adjusted to the first set, with Abra set to take on Doduo and +1 Abra at once, while surviving against most of Wailmer's Water Spout + Hidden Power Grass combo. However, the first set still had some drawbacks besides the power output, such as not having the guaranteed survival rolls vs 200 SpA Wailmer. Therefore, I created the second set, which perfectly covers it + the Modest set in exchange for having a 6.3% chance to die vs Doduo. I'll have to tackle power output dmg again, as it's a noticeable drop in power vs smth like Snubbull, as 40 SpAtk has 68% at minroll, while 120 SpAtk has 72% at minroll, and 80% SpAtk minroll vs. near-max-SpDef Snubbull. Personally, the first set is my most preferred, but there are times when the second set is needed if I know the opponent is bringing 200 SpAtk, which is usually specific people or new beginners using the Smogdex. I have a huge preference to take EVERYTHING into account, even if Modest or 200 Bold are flawed or used less, because theoretically they can appear at any point. Never underestimate people's different mindset to bring in the game; always be ready for everything, especially for newer players.
Wailmer @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 SpA / 240 SpD / 196 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug] / Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Surf
- Self-Destruct
This set was taken from natu CB spam team, but the purpose of this is to bait in water types and remove them so Horsea could come in and sweep. 15 Speed to outspeed most Wailmer sets and Staryu, EQ + SpDef Bulk to win vs Chinchou, HP Bug for Grasses and HP Ghost for Ghosts. It's very gimmicky, but it's not easy to react to it, especially at the lead. I used it only at the lead, but you can argue to add it in behind if your game plan and preparation give you what you want.
:Snubbull:
Because of Anorith, Hidden Power Steel is one of Snubbull's staple coverage moves, which also covers vs Lileep and Larvitar at the same time. The key point is that it's impossible to be Max SpDef along with HP Steel due to IV drops exactly at SpDef. It's mandatory to have Anorith at 116 Attack in order to OHKO most Anorith sets.
Snubbull @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def
Careful / Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Return / Double Edge
- Hidden Power [Steel]
While Adamant Nature is usually an option at lead, so Double Edge / EQ + HP Steel OHKO's incoming Anorith. The only set where this doesn't apply to is the Impish Anorith. The drawback to this is that the guaranteed rolls can be susceptible, and something like Hydro Pump Rain from Horsea goes from 56% to OHKO to a whopping OHKO on Snubbull. But considering Modest Wailmer hardly exists and there's no Abra anymore, this set is one of the defining Bulk Up sets at the moment.
Another set I've also likened a lot due to the damage output has significantly weakened is running Speed on Snubbull as well. 11 Speed can act as an absurd check to 10 Speed, which also makes CB Jolly Trapinch inconsistent rip. But a fun one I've used in past metas as well is running 12 Speed Snubbull with Rain Dance + Double Edge to outspeed Chloro mons, and forcing a recoil kill to get to skip my opponent's turn. Again, Snubbull can rlly customize the speed if it rlly wants, to the point I had to take that account on the building, which is why you sometimes see 12 Speed Cacnea/Koffing on my builder.
:Elekid:
This set doesn't need a big explanation besides that it survives vs Hydro Pumps and Solarbeam guaranteed, but there's slight depth on 76 HP vs. 76 SpDef as both have almost the same strengths. The only major difference is that SpDef investment allows you to switch in vs those attacks + a spike dmg with a 93.7% chance to survive, while HP only gives you like guaranteed survival of 3 Rock Blast from Anorith. The set isn't rlly better than Ice Punch/HP Ground/Tbolt since this set gets walled by Lileep and Magnemite, but it does use the defensive utility better, to say it at least.
Elekid @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 160 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thief
- Substitute
:Anorith:
I don't have any revolutionary adjustments I created for Anorith, except for like Hidden Power Ground on CB. But I've paid attention to Alder bringing Physdef Jolly and then Shrey with Physdef Impish version in tours, and that got my attention to try that, as I assumed that set was dead for me. The biggest issue with the set both of them brought is they invest in maxed defense, which makes it impossible to fit in Hidden Power Bug due to IV drops other than the power. But the ability to survive vs +1 Snubbull's HP Steel has its worth.
Anorith @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Battle Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Def / 236 Spe
EVs: 76 HP / 116 Def / 40 SpD / 240 Spe (Impish HP Bug on 4th slot)
Jolly Nature / Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Rock Blast
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance / Aerial Ace
:Chinchou:
This 68 SpDef benchmark is critical for me to avoid Hydro Pump/Surf + Hidden Power Grass. Obviously, there are some near-max rolls where it can kill, but overall it impacts your decision to click HP Grass or not. Just some minor adjustments that have an important influence vs opposing water types.
Chinchou @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
Hidden Power: Grass
EVs: 52 Def / 152 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute / Ice Beam
:Gastly:
While Gastly will always have its 4-move struggles, it will still use its coverage to dramatically alter its coverage against its checks. I've seen HP Water to counteract against Anorith + Houndour line and no-explosion Gastly to adapt to the meta. And the craziest thing is that it works, and I've even used it myself. I haven't rlly found a definitive moveset that is universally the best since Gastly is one of the most customizable mons designed for the teams, but I'd say definitive ones are variations of Thief + Giga Drain if it wants to act as a Chinchou+Other water checks, then afterward it's a decision of adding a mixture of Explosion, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Water, and so on. I love this adorable mon, and it may be my favourite mon to use in this tier.
:Voltorb:
I labbed lead Voltorb again, especially taken from Corckscrew Offensive Voltorb lead when he asked me for help to prep for Greeditational, and I liked how it favoured against Wailmer + Anorith leads. Now it does have the roadblocks such as vs Magnemite w/o HP Ground, or Lileep and Cacnea, but it has some cool tricks even if it still has major holes as a lead.
Voltorb @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 240 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature / Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power Ground
- Substitute
- Explosion
:Cacnea:
Salac Cacnea is actually such a cheap mon lmao. It took time to get it out, but I'm glad to finally abuse it when it was needed. Destiny Bond + Encore + Spikes is such a fucked up combination if you know how to utilize it well, as it punishes switching if you don't have a Spikes-immune mon, or run any status moves. It doesn't take much to prepare for it, but it is still such an absurd mon that creates these annoying 50/50s, and you'll most likely get 1-2 spikes easily. This set makes Cacnea the clear best Spikes setter in the tier for me.
Cacnea @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Spikes
- Endure
- Encore
- Destiny Bond
:Trapinch:
There are only two sets that I think that has geniune uses in the meta. It's either full Physdef Trapinch to survive vs any Anorith sets, or it's a 9-Speed version. CB has its fun tricks, but with Snubbull's speed dynamic and people taking into account 11 speed creeps, this hurts fast CB Trapinch indirectly. Trapinch atm is suffering from being overwhelmed by the burden of handling Anorith, fast special attackers, and trapping Lileep at once, which led me to conclude that it's kinda impossible to cover all three of them at once, well, specifically especially Anorith + Lileep at the same time bc Anorith demands so much investment to avoid dying to it. It does give you a clear answer on what Trapinch set you take into account in the battle and building, and I think that's the peak of Trapinch for this meta. Maybe it can be A in the future, but for now it's the clear best A- for me.
PhysDef (Trapinch) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Quick Attack
- Endure / Rock Slide / Rest
HP Ghost forces you to drop one point on ATK or DEF, which gives you some slight dilemmas vs it if taking into account all Anorith sets.
Trapinch @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 36 Atk / 156 SpD / 116 Spe
EVs: 156 HP / 40 Atk / 160 SpD / 116 Spe (HP Bug/Ghost)
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Hidden Power [Ghost] / Hidden Power Bug
- Quick Attack
- Endure / Rest / Rock Slide
Why it's Impish here is so it can survive vs CB Anorith's HP Bug guaranteed instead of an ugly 31.3% roll.
Also, Rest is very specific, but it basically helps vs the 20 Speeders Electrics with Sub/Toxic/Thief for both sets.
:Koffing:
Running 12 Speed is possible to avoid 11 Snubbull, Cacnea, Machop, and Exeggcute, and that is very valuable. However, it comes with a cost of not being able to run 156 Atk Koffing, whose Explosion is capable of OHKOing Anorith besides the MaxDef Anorith. Besides that, I think it's an all-around mon that may have some tricky scenarios, as not having full physdef makes it vulnerable to 5-hit Rock Blast, but otherwise it's a sick ass mon on its own right :3
156 Atk Koffing Explosion vs. 76 HP / 120 Def 30 IVs Anorith: 22-26 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
156 Atk Koffing Explosion vs. 76 HP / 200 Def 30 IVs Anorith: 18-22 (81.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (lol)
:Ponyta:
Ponyta @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 240 SpA / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Hidden Power Ground Ponyta, my love... This is probably my favourite set just because of how simple, but how effective it can be to handle against Anorith + other fire types as well. evakiyama! and Alder ST have demonstrated how effective the coverage can be, but showcasing it with the Sunny Day set as well. For the last two moves, along with Overheat, I'd probably run Sub + Toxic to combat Trapinch trapping me and render it useless vs my Elekid in late game, but Rineko has also tried Body Slam + Hidden Power Ground for the Chinchou matchup. There's an argument for the 4th slot Sub to be changed to Quick Attack as well if the prep serves it well.
Another weird move combination I've used is this set that's obviously worse than above, but reminded me that kick move exist huh(team as an example)...
Ponyta @ Sitrus Berry
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Double Kick
- Toxic / Substitute
:Exeggcute:
We in the council should have changed this a year ago, aka after the Porygon ban, but we use Modest Nature nowadays, as Explosion dmg was specifically for Porygon. I've probably gone around and adjusted the investment, as Mild puts you susceptible to physical attackers like Koffing and HP Ghost Machop/Mankey. 12 Speed is perfectly viable(and 14 is lowkey insane, but there's an argument for Salac Anorith), or you could add SpDef Investment to get better survivability vs +1 Ice Punch Elekid.
:Horsea:
I've talked this before, but I like to remind you that Rain Dance isn't its only set, and I think the Agility set has still mad use. The only big
drawback is that Hydro Pump is kind of a necessity to sweep, even if Surf is alright, and Ice Beam and HP Grass have valuable worth for their own reason.
Horsea @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
- Substitute
:Magnemite:
Magnemite @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute
- Toxic
This set takes advantage of Lileep's lack of coverage, subs behind it without the sub breaking, and keeps a nice resistance vs non-hp ground 20 Electric types and Gastly. I rlly like this set so it acts a bit more defensively, but still has that wallbreaking power, although the loss of power is noticeable enough vs mons like SpDef Wailmer. I'll say that this is definitely not the definitive one, but I think the future is making it run max speed to avoid the Cubone + 14 Wailmer speed-creeps dilemma. I'd even argue Magnemite is lowkey A-, but atm it has yet to prove that this opinion is probably a controversial one due to relying heavily on theory and my speculation. Besides, it can be treated like Ferroseed with running random HP Ground, which turns around the matchup like crazy lol.
:Onix:
Running 76 HP / 156 Atk / 36 Def on Onix helps massively vs Max ATK SD Anorith, even if it's 31.3% chance to get OHKOs from Brick Break. Otherwise, it may have its awkward EV calcs, but I think it's an underrated mon to handle vs Anorith + Chinchou, and unlike Trapinch, it's able to make uncomfortable scenarios like forcing Wailmer onto it, and force a trade explosion to Onix, which it would love to have in most scenarios.
:Cubone:
Cubone @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 156 Def / 40 SpD / 160 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Bonemerang
- Ancient Power
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Swords Dance
Cubone has so many "potential" sets that can be explored, but unfortunately I ran with a very absurd bulky Cubone to have 6.3% chance to die from CB Doduo, and just have enough power for specific stuff. The problem is that it's kinda lackluster on its own right, and lacks the oppressiveness. Rock Tomb/Icy Wind sets have even more long-term potential for this meta, but it was just fun to make this one for Anorith + Grasses and Doduo lead paths.
:Togepi:
Togepi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 Def
Impish Nature
- Body Slam / Secret Power
- Encore
- Ancient Power / Shadow Ball
- Counter / Softboiled / Shadow Ball
Tl;dr: 236 Atk Choice Band Anorith Brick Break vs. 236 HP / 236+ Def Togepi: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Being able to survive vs any non-rock blast(or Adamant if u wanna be an ass) Anorith is INSANE on its own right, and gives it a viable place in the lead meta. It may lack power and damage output, but this is the most anti-offensive lead you could make out here, and that's justified enough to be mentioned for me.
There are more mons I could talk about, such as Thief Magby or Fakeout + Sub + Thief Meowth, but this is what I felt like mentioning due to my long-term interest in these sets. Just very fun to talk about the specific changes that make an impact in terms of new interactions or a bit more consistency in my mind. Either way, thanks for reading if you actually went through this <3
I'm not gonna explain each one on mons. Still, I'll tell you that my preferences come down to flexibility in the sets, counterplay to the mon and its sets in terms of sequence and positions, and overall its importance and relevance in gameplay and buildings.
To break this down as an example of what I said above, Wailmer's the only S-rank mon because it has such narrow-minded counterplay where the simplest counterplay is switching to your own Wailmer, esp on like favourable lead matchups, or switching in against Trapinch, where Snubbull has like 4+ mons that are designed for this mon while being naturally good vs the others. Snubbull + Elekid are top 3 due to their extreme importance, and giving dynamic offensive and defensive attributes makes them able to be spammed in so many teams, compared to like Anorith and Chinchou that has its weird, awkward defensive synergy that makes them not as spammable in builds, and these omnipresent counterplays such as Impish Trapinch on Anorith + being weak to water, and Chinchou losing 1v1 vs Elekid/Gastly and just doesn't beat mons in 1v1 if both are in full health. But both Ano and Chou are top 5 due to their perfect coverage and absurd offensive win-con, which makes them the perfect trading mon in that case.
To break this down as an example of what I said above, Wailmer's the only S-rank mon because it has such narrow-minded counterplay where the simplest counterplay is switching to your own Wailmer, esp on like favourable lead matchups, or switching in against Trapinch, where Snubbull has like 4+ mons that are designed for this mon while being naturally good vs the others. Snubbull + Elekid are top 3 due to their extreme importance, and giving dynamic offensive and defensive attributes makes them able to be spammed in so many teams, compared to like Anorith and Chinchou that has its weird, awkward defensive synergy that makes them not as spammable in builds, and these omnipresent counterplays such as Impish Trapinch on Anorith + being weak to water, and Chinchou losing 1v1 vs Elekid/Gastly and just doesn't beat mons in 1v1 if both are in full health. But both Ano and Chou are top 5 due to their perfect coverage and absurd offensive win-con, which makes them the perfect trading mon in that case.
With that said, time to go through the ADV LC sets I want to talk about, starting with...
Optimization on PhysDef Wailmer
| Wailmer @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Water Veil Level: 5 EVs: 196 HP / 156 Def / 40 SpA / 76 SpD / 36 Spe Bold Nature - Surf - Hidden Power [Grass] - Icy Wind - Self-Destruct | Wailmer @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Water Veil Level: 5 EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 40 SpA / 156 SpD / 36 Spe Bold Nature - Water Spout - Icy Wind - Hidden Power [Grass] - Self-Destruct |
This old Wailmer set is outdated and too flawed for three reasons. This has a 6.3% chance to die from CB Doduo(and I HATE 6.3%), has unfavourable rolls to die from Water Spout + HP Grass from Wailmer, and the damage output is extremely questionable outside of Ice Beam Damage vs Bagon and Spikes dmg output. I adjusted to the first set, with Abra set to take on Doduo and +1 Abra at once, while surviving against most of Wailmer's Water Spout + Hidden Power Grass combo. However, the first set still had some drawbacks besides the power output, such as not having the guaranteed survival rolls vs 200 SpA Wailmer. Therefore, I created the second set, which perfectly covers it + the Modest set in exchange for having a 6.3% chance to die vs Doduo. I'll have to tackle power output dmg again, as it's a noticeable drop in power vs smth like Snubbull, as 40 SpAtk has 68% at minroll, while 120 SpAtk has 72% at minroll, and 80% SpAtk minroll vs. near-max-SpDef Snubbull. Personally, the first set is my most preferred, but there are times when the second set is needed if I know the opponent is bringing 200 SpAtk, which is usually specific people or new beginners using the Smogdex. I have a huge preference to take EVERYTHING into account, even if Modest or 200 Bold are flawed or used less, because theoretically they can appear at any point. Never underestimate people's different mindset to bring in the game; always be ready for everything, especially for newer players.
Wailmer @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 SpA / 240 SpD / 196 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug] / Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Surf
- Self-Destruct
This set was taken from natu CB spam team, but the purpose of this is to bait in water types and remove them so Horsea could come in and sweep. 15 Speed to outspeed most Wailmer sets and Staryu, EQ + SpDef Bulk to win vs Chinchou, HP Bug for Grasses and HP Ghost for Ghosts. It's very gimmicky, but it's not easy to react to it, especially at the lead. I used it only at the lead, but you can argue to add it in behind if your game plan and preparation give you what you want.
:Snubbull:
Because of Anorith, Hidden Power Steel is one of Snubbull's staple coverage moves, which also covers vs Lileep and Larvitar at the same time. The key point is that it's impossible to be Max SpDef along with HP Steel due to IV drops exactly at SpDef. It's mandatory to have Anorith at 116 Attack in order to OHKO most Anorith sets.
Snubbull @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def
Careful / Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Return / Double Edge
- Hidden Power [Steel]
+1 36 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 0 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 20-24 (95.2 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 116 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 0 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 36 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 20-24 (90.9 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 116 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 22-26 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 36 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 116 Def Anorith: 18-22 (81.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 116 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 116 Def Anorith: 20-24 (90.9 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 116 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 0 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 36 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 20-24 (90.9 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 116 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 40 Def Anorith: 22-26 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 36 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 116 Def Anorith: 18-22 (81.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 116 Atk Snubbull Hidden Power Steel vs. 76 HP / 116 Def Anorith: 20-24 (90.9 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
While Adamant Nature is usually an option at lead, so Double Edge / EQ + HP Steel OHKO's incoming Anorith. The only set where this doesn't apply to is the Impish Anorith. The drawback to this is that the guaranteed rolls can be susceptible, and something like Hydro Pump Rain from Horsea goes from 56% to OHKO to a whopping OHKO on Snubbull. But considering Modest Wailmer hardly exists and there's no Abra anymore, this set is one of the defining Bulk Up sets at the moment.
Another set I've also likened a lot due to the damage output has significantly weakened is running Speed on Snubbull as well. 11 Speed can act as an absurd check to 10 Speed, which also makes CB Jolly Trapinch inconsistent rip. But a fun one I've used in past metas as well is running 12 Speed Snubbull with Rain Dance + Double Edge to outspeed Chloro mons, and forcing a recoil kill to get to skip my opponent's turn. Again, Snubbull can rlly customize the speed if it rlly wants, to the point I had to take that account on the building, which is why you sometimes see 12 Speed Cacnea/Koffing on my builder.
:Elekid:
This set doesn't need a big explanation besides that it survives vs Hydro Pumps and Solarbeam guaranteed, but there's slight depth on 76 HP vs. 76 SpDef as both have almost the same strengths. The only major difference is that SpDef investment allows you to switch in vs those attacks + a spike dmg with a 93.7% chance to survive, while HP only gives you like guaranteed survival of 3 Rock Blast from Anorith. The set isn't rlly better than Ice Punch/HP Ground/Tbolt since this set gets walled by Lileep and Magnemite, but it does use the defensive utility better, to say it at least.
Elekid @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 160 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thief
- Substitute
:Anorith:
I don't have any revolutionary adjustments I created for Anorith, except for like Hidden Power Ground on CB. But I've paid attention to Alder bringing Physdef Jolly and then Shrey with Physdef Impish version in tours, and that got my attention to try that, as I assumed that set was dead for me. The biggest issue with the set both of them brought is they invest in maxed defense, which makes it impossible to fit in Hidden Power Bug due to IV drops other than the power. But the ability to survive vs +1 Snubbull's HP Steel has its worth.
Anorith @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Battle Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Def / 236 Spe
EVs: 76 HP / 116 Def / 40 SpD / 240 Spe (Impish HP Bug on 4th slot)
Jolly Nature / Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Rock Blast
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance / Aerial Ace
:Chinchou:
This 68 SpDef benchmark is critical for me to avoid Hydro Pump/Surf + Hidden Power Grass. Obviously, there are some near-max rolls where it can kill, but overall it impacts your decision to click HP Grass or not. Just some minor adjustments that have an important influence vs opposing water types.
Chinchou @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
Hidden Power: Grass
EVs: 52 Def / 152 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute / Ice Beam
:Gastly:
While Gastly will always have its 4-move struggles, it will still use its coverage to dramatically alter its coverage against its checks. I've seen HP Water to counteract against Anorith + Houndour line and no-explosion Gastly to adapt to the meta. And the craziest thing is that it works, and I've even used it myself. I haven't rlly found a definitive moveset that is universally the best since Gastly is one of the most customizable mons designed for the teams, but I'd say definitive ones are variations of Thief + Giga Drain if it wants to act as a Chinchou+Other water checks, then afterward it's a decision of adding a mixture of Explosion, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Water, and so on. I love this adorable mon, and it may be my favourite mon to use in this tier.
:Voltorb:
I labbed lead Voltorb again, especially taken from Corckscrew Offensive Voltorb lead when he asked me for help to prep for Greeditational, and I liked how it favoured against Wailmer + Anorith leads. Now it does have the roadblocks such as vs Magnemite w/o HP Ground, or Lileep and Cacnea, but it has some cool tricks even if it still has major holes as a lead.
Voltorb @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 240 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature / Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power Ground
- Substitute
- Explosion
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Anorith: 8-10 (38 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Voltorb Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Anorith: 5-6 (23.8 - 28.5%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Anorith: 16-19 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunder vs. 36 HP / 236+ SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunder vs. 132 HP / 236+ SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (96.7 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
240 SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 80 SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (93.7 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (+Speed)
240 SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 192 HP / 160 SpD Wailmer: 27-32 (87 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (+Speed)
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 80 SpD Wailmer: 32-38 (100 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+SpAtk)
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 192 HP / 160 SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (96.7 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (+SpAtk)
0 Atk Voltorb Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Anorith: 5-6 (23.8 - 28.5%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Anorith: 16-19 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunder vs. 36 HP / 236+ SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunder vs. 132 HP / 236+ SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (96.7 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
240 SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 80 SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (93.7 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (+Speed)
240 SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 192 HP / 160 SpD Wailmer: 27-32 (87 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (+Speed)
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 80 SpD Wailmer: 32-38 (100 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+SpAtk)
240+ SpA 30 IVs Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 192 HP / 160 SpD Wailmer: 30-36 (96.7 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (+SpAtk)
Salac Cacnea is actually such a cheap mon lmao. It took time to get it out, but I'm glad to finally abuse it when it was needed. Destiny Bond + Encore + Spikes is such a fucked up combination if you know how to utilize it well, as it punishes switching if you don't have a Spikes-immune mon, or run any status moves. It doesn't take much to prepare for it, but it is still such an absurd mon that creates these annoying 50/50s, and you'll most likely get 1-2 spikes easily. This set makes Cacnea the clear best Spikes setter in the tier for me.
Cacnea @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Spikes
- Endure
- Encore
- Destiny Bond
:Trapinch:
There are only two sets that I think that has geniune uses in the meta. It's either full Physdef Trapinch to survive vs any Anorith sets, or it's a 9-Speed version. CB has its fun tricks, but with Snubbull's speed dynamic and people taking into account 11 speed creeps, this hurts fast CB Trapinch indirectly. Trapinch atm is suffering from being overwhelmed by the burden of handling Anorith, fast special attackers, and trapping Lileep at once, which led me to conclude that it's kinda impossible to cover all three of them at once, well, specifically especially Anorith + Lileep at the same time bc Anorith demands so much investment to avoid dying to it. It does give you a clear answer on what Trapinch set you take into account in the battle and building, and I think that's the peak of Trapinch for this meta. Maybe it can be A in the future, but for now it's the clear best A- for me.
PhysDef (Trapinch) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Quick Attack
- Endure / Rock Slide / Rest
HP Ghost forces you to drop one point on ATK or DEF, which gives you some slight dilemmas vs it if taking into account all Anorith sets.
+2 244 Atk 30 IVs Anorith Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def 30 IVs Trapinch: 21-25 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Note: Max ATK HP Bug does mean there are no Def EVs, which makes Trapinch HP Ghost + EQ be able to OHKO it without any Atk investment. However, there is almost no demand to force yourself to run Max Atk, which means...
0 Atk Trapinch Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Anorith: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Trapinch Hidden Power Ghost vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Anorith: 6-8 (28.5 - 38%) -- 59.1% chance to 3HKO
Note: Trapinch beats it regardless if Anorith is 76 HP/156 Atk/36 Def, which means Anorith has to commit a TON for that spread above.
Note: Max ATK HP Bug does mean there are no Def EVs, which makes Trapinch HP Ghost + EQ be able to OHKO it without any Atk investment. However, there is almost no demand to force yourself to run Max Atk, which means...
0 Atk Trapinch Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Anorith: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Trapinch Hidden Power Ghost vs. 0 HP / 120 Def Anorith: 6-8 (28.5 - 38%) -- 59.1% chance to 3HKO
Note: Trapinch beats it regardless if Anorith is 76 HP/156 Atk/36 Def, which means Anorith has to commit a TON for that spread above.
Trapinch @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 36 Atk / 156 SpD / 116 Spe
EVs: 156 HP / 40 Atk / 160 SpD / 116 Spe (HP Bug/Ghost)
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Hidden Power [Ghost] / Hidden Power Bug
- Quick Attack
- Endure / Rest / Rock Slide
Why it's Impish here is so it can survive vs CB Anorith's HP Bug guaranteed instead of an ugly 31.3% roll.
Also, Rest is very specific, but it basically helps vs the 20 Speeders Electrics with Sub/Toxic/Thief for both sets.
:Koffing:
Running 12 Speed is possible to avoid 11 Snubbull, Cacnea, Machop, and Exeggcute, and that is very valuable. However, it comes with a cost of not being able to run 156 Atk Koffing, whose Explosion is capable of OHKOing Anorith besides the MaxDef Anorith. Besides that, I think it's an all-around mon that may have some tricky scenarios, as not having full physdef makes it vulnerable to 5-hit Rock Blast, but otherwise it's a sick ass mon on its own right :3
156 Atk Koffing Explosion vs. 76 HP / 120 Def 30 IVs Anorith: 22-26 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
156 Atk Koffing Explosion vs. 76 HP / 200 Def 30 IVs Anorith: 18-22 (81.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (lol)
:Ponyta:
Ponyta @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 240 SpA / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Hidden Power Ground Ponyta, my love... This is probably my favourite set just because of how simple, but how effective it can be to handle against Anorith + other fire types as well. evakiyama! and Alder ST have demonstrated how effective the coverage can be, but showcasing it with the Sunny Day set as well. For the last two moves, along with Overheat, I'd probably run Sub + Toxic to combat Trapinch trapping me and render it useless vs my Elekid in late game, but Rineko has also tried Body Slam + Hidden Power Ground for the Chinchou matchup. There's an argument for the 4th slot Sub to be changed to Quick Attack as well if the prep serves it well.
Another weird move combination I've used is this set that's obviously worse than above, but reminded me that kick move exist huh(team as an example)...
Ponyta @ Sitrus Berry
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Double Kick
- Toxic / Substitute
HP Grass hits all of the Grass types, but Double Kick covers Houndour, Lileep, Magnemite, normals, and kind of sub mons kek.
0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Houndour: 16-20 (76.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (95.2 - 114.2% if 172 Atk)
0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 68 HP / 140 Def Lileep: 12-16 (50 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 12-16 (50 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Magnemite: 12-16 (63.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (1st Hit: 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)
0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Houndour: 16-20 (76.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (95.2 - 114.2% if 172 Atk)
0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 68 HP / 140 Def Lileep: 12-16 (50 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Snubbull: 12-16 (50 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ponyta Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Magnemite: 12-16 (63.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (1st Hit: 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)
:Exeggcute:
We in the council should have changed this a year ago, aka after the Porygon ban, but we use Modest Nature nowadays, as Explosion dmg was specifically for Porygon. I've probably gone around and adjusted the investment, as Mild puts you susceptible to physical attackers like Koffing and HP Ghost Machop/Mankey. 12 Speed is perfectly viable(and 14 is lowkey insane, but there's an argument for Salac Anorith), or you could add SpDef Investment to get better survivability vs +1 Ice Punch Elekid.
:Horsea:
I've talked this before, but I like to remind you that Rain Dance isn't its only set, and I think the Agility set has still mad use. The only big
drawback is that Hydro Pump is kind of a necessity to sweep, even if Surf is alright, and Ice Beam and HP Grass have valuable worth for their own reason.
Horsea @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
- Substitute
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hidden Power Grass vs. 36 HP / 76 SpD Staryu: 20-24 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou: 22-26 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hidden Power Grass vs. 196 HP / 76 SpD Wailmer: 23-28 (71.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hydro Pump vs. 196 HP / 120+ SpD Snubbull: 25-30 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou: 22-26 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hidden Power Grass vs. 196 HP / 76 SpD Wailmer: 23-28 (71.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 200+ SpA 30 IVs Horsea Hydro Pump vs. 196 HP / 120+ SpD Snubbull: 25-30 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:Magnemite:
Magnemite @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute
- Toxic
This set takes advantage of Lileep's lack of coverage, subs behind it without the sub breaking, and keeps a nice resistance vs non-hp ground 20 Electric types and Gastly. I rlly like this set so it acts a bit more defensively, but still has that wallbreaking power, although the loss of power is noticeable enough vs mons like SpDef Wailmer. I'll say that this is definitely not the definitive one, but I think the future is making it run max speed to avoid the Cubone + 14 Wailmer speed-creeps dilemma. I'd even argue Magnemite is lowkey A-, but atm it has yet to prove that this opinion is probably a controversial one due to relying heavily on theory and my speculation. Besides, it can be treated like Ferroseed with running random HP Ground, which turns around the matchup like crazy lol.
:Onix:
Running 76 HP / 156 Atk / 36 Def on Onix helps massively vs Max ATK SD Anorith, even if it's 31.3% chance to get OHKOs from Brick Break. Otherwise, it may have its awkward EV calcs, but I think it's an underrated mon to handle vs Anorith + Chinchou, and unlike Trapinch, it's able to make uncomfortable scenarios like forcing Wailmer onto it, and force a trade explosion to Onix, which it would love to have in most scenarios.
:Cubone:
Cubone @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 156 Def / 40 SpD / 160 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Bonemerang
- Ancient Power
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Swords Dance
Cubone has so many "potential" sets that can be explored, but unfortunately I ran with a very absurd bulky Cubone to have 6.3% chance to die from CB Doduo, and just have enough power for specific stuff. The problem is that it's kinda lackluster on its own right, and lacks the oppressiveness. Rock Tomb/Icy Wind sets have even more long-term potential for this meta, but it was just fun to make this one for Anorith + Grasses and Doduo lead paths.
:Togepi:
Togepi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 Def
Impish Nature
- Body Slam / Secret Power
- Encore
- Ancient Power / Shadow Ball
- Counter / Softboiled / Shadow Ball
Tl;dr: 236 Atk Choice Band Anorith Brick Break vs. 236 HP / 236+ Def Togepi: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Being able to survive vs any non-rock blast(or Adamant if u wanna be an ass) Anorith is INSANE on its own right, and gives it a viable place in the lead meta. It may lack power and damage output, but this is the most anti-offensive lead you could make out here, and that's justified enough to be mentioned for me.
There are more mons I could talk about, such as Thief Magby or Fakeout + Sub + Thief Meowth, but this is what I felt like mentioning due to my long-term interest in these sets. Just very fun to talk about the specific changes that make an impact in terms of new interactions or a bit more consistency in my mind. Either way, thanks for reading if you actually went through this <3
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Yo, ADV OU mainer here huuh you could say mid level I guess. I've played like 50 games of gen3 lc on ladder this month and i've grown to like the format. So i'd like to share my observations and opinions, not with the pretention of being right about anything, but rather to hear u guys opinions.
First i'd like to talk about building principles, as i have experienced them with the sample teams and as I have read about them in this thread.
It seems to me that wailmer is no less than mandatory in every team as a check to physical threats. Likewise, elekid and/or voltorb cannot be pass on, as they offer the most efficient speed control in the tier. One has to play around trapinch of course but i feel they are mandatory nevertheless. Elekid in particular, as he has a greater spatk and moveset variety.
I really am not convinced about the use of weather in this tier. Playing it or against it i noticed it can easily fire back to the user and so it lacks consistency imo. Maybe on late games situations when most of the opp team is known, idk. But it feels too circumstancial to me.
I'm also not convinced about spikes. The mons who use it take a slot that most of the time could be better use by a better mon, and the chip damage doesn't seem to have that much importance to me. I'd like to experiment with destiny bond cacnea tho, as laying spikes and trading mons seems indeed appealing, if consistently possible. But the pinecos i faced never managed to do anything else than one layer without finding the opportunity to explode, as it is too slow and frail, and snorunt's movepool, though interesting, doesn't have a trading option that I think a spiker needs in this tier.
That being said, i'd like to talk about the structures that I believe are good. The first one is what I would simply called "good stuff", a balance team with good mons all around, that if piloted well, will give you an opportunity to get the win in most match ups. Thx for the input Jimmy i know lol.
Secondly, i think boosting with pinch berries or moves is the best way to manage late games situations in the tier. Petaya Elekid and DD Bagon in particular are just amazing at checkmates scenarios. As such i'm currently working on setup possibilities on other mons, as well as the use of CB. I would love to hear your experiences on that matter.
All that being said, the sample teams I vibed the most with, the ones which are the most in line with these building principles, were by far Rineko's, who from the little i saw, in the samples and in his posts, seems to be the best builder in this format. I've already began to tweak other teams to emulate his style. I have yet to building a team myself from the ground up and I think i will do so experimenting with setup mons, as I said before.
Finally i'd like to talk random shit about particular mons. I don't believe in the utility of houndoor, as duskull and gastly are no gengar (even tho i love both of them equally <3) and are easy to manage without a dedicated trapper whose fire type is detrimental in a tier full of waters.
Koffing is good. Spoink can be a fucking menace i'd like to work on him too. And I dont get water spout on wailmer, if someone would have the kindness to explain it to me. By the way do u know where i can find shared sets list ? I searched in the thread and the discord but didn't found anything ordered.
Also the viability ranking seems off to me, is it updated ? Maybe I just don't agree with it idk.
So yeah, thanks to everyone who worked on the available ressources, and thanks in particular to Shing, who i met on ladder and was really nice to me (tartinaxxx2), and rineko, for the teams and the building inspiration.
I'd like to finish by sharing some random sets to have you guys opinions on them. Thx again !
PS : no harsh feeling but can someone explain why the fuck the three times i faced celdanami on ladder they forfeited almost immediatly ? I'm a nice guy i swear play me lmao
Spoink @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 40 HP / 76 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
• Psychic
• Calm Mind
• Reflect
• Thief
Machop @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Atk / 40 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
• Rock Slide
• Brick Break
• Hidden Power [Ghost]
• Bulk Up
Ponyta @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SpA / 196 Spe
Naive Nature
• Double-Edge
• Quick Attack
• Overheat
• Hidden Power [Steel]
First i'd like to talk about building principles, as i have experienced them with the sample teams and as I have read about them in this thread.
It seems to me that wailmer is no less than mandatory in every team as a check to physical threats. Likewise, elekid and/or voltorb cannot be pass on, as they offer the most efficient speed control in the tier. One has to play around trapinch of course but i feel they are mandatory nevertheless. Elekid in particular, as he has a greater spatk and moveset variety.
I really am not convinced about the use of weather in this tier. Playing it or against it i noticed it can easily fire back to the user and so it lacks consistency imo. Maybe on late games situations when most of the opp team is known, idk. But it feels too circumstancial to me.
I'm also not convinced about spikes. The mons who use it take a slot that most of the time could be better use by a better mon, and the chip damage doesn't seem to have that much importance to me. I'd like to experiment with destiny bond cacnea tho, as laying spikes and trading mons seems indeed appealing, if consistently possible. But the pinecos i faced never managed to do anything else than one layer without finding the opportunity to explode, as it is too slow and frail, and snorunt's movepool, though interesting, doesn't have a trading option that I think a spiker needs in this tier.
That being said, i'd like to talk about the structures that I believe are good. The first one is what I would simply called "good stuff", a balance team with good mons all around, that if piloted well, will give you an opportunity to get the win in most match ups. Thx for the input Jimmy i know lol.
Secondly, i think boosting with pinch berries or moves is the best way to manage late games situations in the tier. Petaya Elekid and DD Bagon in particular are just amazing at checkmates scenarios. As such i'm currently working on setup possibilities on other mons, as well as the use of CB. I would love to hear your experiences on that matter.
All that being said, the sample teams I vibed the most with, the ones which are the most in line with these building principles, were by far Rineko's, who from the little i saw, in the samples and in his posts, seems to be the best builder in this format. I've already began to tweak other teams to emulate his style. I have yet to building a team myself from the ground up and I think i will do so experimenting with setup mons, as I said before.
Finally i'd like to talk random shit about particular mons. I don't believe in the utility of houndoor, as duskull and gastly are no gengar (even tho i love both of them equally <3) and are easy to manage without a dedicated trapper whose fire type is detrimental in a tier full of waters.
Koffing is good. Spoink can be a fucking menace i'd like to work on him too. And I dont get water spout on wailmer, if someone would have the kindness to explain it to me. By the way do u know where i can find shared sets list ? I searched in the thread and the discord but didn't found anything ordered.
Also the viability ranking seems off to me, is it updated ? Maybe I just don't agree with it idk.
So yeah, thanks to everyone who worked on the available ressources, and thanks in particular to Shing, who i met on ladder and was really nice to me (tartinaxxx2), and rineko, for the teams and the building inspiration.
I'd like to finish by sharing some random sets to have you guys opinions on them. Thx again !
PS : no harsh feeling but can someone explain why the fuck the three times i faced celdanami on ladder they forfeited almost immediatly ? I'm a nice guy i swear play me lmao
Spoink @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 40 HP / 76 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
• Psychic
• Calm Mind
• Reflect
• Thief
Machop @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Atk / 40 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
• Rock Slide
• Brick Break
• Hidden Power [Ghost]
• Bulk Up
Ponyta @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SpA / 196 Spe
Naive Nature
• Double-Edge
• Quick Attack
• Overheat
• Hidden Power [Steel]
I probably just didn't mean to queue LC. Hit me up and we can play some friendlies :]
H
Hehe noted
The "Unofficial" ADV LC Set Compendium
Rineko and I made an ADV LC set compendium together. I personally asked her to do it with me, as I've some personal guilt for not updating the resources thoroughly from last year. This is unofficial, as it's not 100% decided as standard sets and it's mainly based on our knowledge together. These are sets that have been used in the tournaments, and some notes that can help your teambuilding as well. Check it out: https://pokepast.es/1c8018e9a56c8687Tiering Council Announcement
naere and I are stepping down from the council and leaving the tier in the hands of the wonderful rineko evakiyama! QuinnNaere has had a waning interest in the tier(and Pokémon in general) as time has gone by. We are thankful for the time and involvement you've used to be on the council, and a personal thank you from me for all the help you've provided whenever I asked you at the weirdest possible times. Thank you again from all of us, and best wishes on your future endeavors. As for myself, I'll shortly post a thorough post after this. But for those who want it short, life currently has given me other real-life priorities that I personally cannot balance with this, and my dissatisfaction with the usage of Smogon, along with unintended investment in competing to win, has led to my decision to step down. Thank everyone who has been a part of the experience, whether you're a tournament player who asked me for help or new beginners who asked me about ADV LC in my DM's and played the games as well. I can only hope the effort I've put in gives you the opportunity to play and enjoy the tier in the upcoming years, just like I had.
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...Where do I even begin with this? Well, I can say that if you noticed my absurd ADV LC postings in the past weeks, this is pretty much the reason. I'm not only resigning from the council, but I've decided to leave Smogon and competitive singles along with it for now. I've been feeling and planning this since April/May, and I feel the same from then to now with the desire to leave. Not sure how soon I'll leave, but the university starts for me tomorrow, so it's close. I'll mention that I'll still pay up for ADVLTL 2, and if you want to secure the money being paid, I'll ask Goldmason/others to take care of it. But yeah, do I have any plans of coming back? I'd be lying if there aren't some opportunities I could play, like in the summer after around two years, when I've graduated from my bachelor's degree. But I'd be happier if I won't appear here for a much longer time, and at that point I've found a competitive game I've established myself in to be passionate about. I'll say that ADV LC and the tiers I've played as a metagame have very little involvement in my decision, and more so where I've put myself in the competitive scene on this site.
To make it short, what happened in the whole early half year was the nail of my biggest concerns shoving up to my face. I've been rapidly playing and building teams for the tournaments, helped others in tournaments that asked me, and focused on developing the metagame with the intent of winning. This period was specifically noticeable as it was where ADV LC has its strongest competition at its state. I enjoyed a good side of the process on my actions and am proud of where I've ended up, but the problem was the time management and strong imbalance with IRL responsibilities. The strong lack of balance between IRL studies and games that are huge investments is one of my biggest personal flaws I've struggled to deal with as a person for so long. I'd hate to admit it, but the half year was a big reason for me failing to clear all the subjects of this second semester. It's embarrassing and a bit too personal for me to say this, but I feel like this is the best way to explain to everyone that I have been with instead of being so vague about it. This isn't anyone's fault but mine, and that's where it also leads me to make a decision to stop this from continuing. It's also why this year has been a bit of a lackluster one for me, as my preparation and performance have been weak. Everyone who has had me in the team tours knows my preparation has been uncompetitively late, the number of breaks I've taken in LCCL, ADPL, and ADVPL, and how my performance has always been a bit questionable. For that, I'm sorry, as I've been so sloppy to the point of reusing teams at some in ADV LC and hella hard on DPP/NFE, and it led me to be disappointed, especially when the teams are suspectable and my performance is mid.
When it comes to Competitive Singles/Smogon/Mons, I've always treated it with the mindset of a small-time, side hobby, only interested in learning about the tiers I enjoy with a mixture of casual and competitive interest. It's basically picking up tiers that have my favourite mons or other friends that play it, but the competitive interest is the enjoyment of the eventual metagame I want to further develop out as hard as I possibly can, without being on that level to play to win too much. Just learning about things from competitive games, from the metagame, the playerbase's skills with how people play the game, and just understanding more of the fundamental part of playing the game is what makes the time worth it and mainly why I'm still here. But as time goes on, I've lost most of the motivation, as I feel like I've accomplished most, if not all, of the things I desired to learn about due to high exposure to high/top tournament experience in the past years, besides the obvious studies. Now what happened in recent times is that I've become very aware of my strong rep(which I have mixed feelings about due to past experiences in NFE), with the combination of strong tournament performance and results, commitment on the tier, and helping other players. I became too important in a side hobby that's only supposed to be small-time, ending up overcommitting with a lack of control. I guess there's just being passionate, enjoying talking about the tier, and not saying much no does put me in the position where I'm at haha. As for the last one, I don't enjoy using half of my day to be on Smogon and Showdown. It's become so tedious to go to school/job, then use my time to sit on the laptop and play/talk mons. Too much time has been used for that, and I struggle to balance it around IRL; a bit of a burden of responsibilities and people asking me a lot in DMs. I don't want to miss my time to hang out with people IRL and want to spend my time on here, as I've just not enjoyed it nowadays.
I'll not let this end on a sour note, though. Despite all the high commitment that wasn't intended to begin with, I'm extremely proud of my accomplishments on this tier. I've been playing ADV LC for 3 years, and so much has been happening. I'm glad to see where I've pushed myself in metagame development, and I'm quite proud of the tournament results with a tournament score W/L score of 42/15 overall, missed playoffs only at LPL11 and ADVLTL 1, and my only negative tournament score is ADVLTL 1 of 1-4, but overall I've been averaging x-2 at most. Maybe it's a bit of boasting on my ego here, as some games don't feel like it counts due my opponent already won, but sometimes I can't stop smiling at the achievements I've made. I don't think I've gotten any acts as well in team tours, so this has been all hard gaming for me. I wish I did more as a council member, such as updating the resource frequently and especially not letting the Smogdex have outdated sets since the Porygon ban, but I'm glad I made up some of it by posting things on forums to say it at least. My time on the Council has been short; I'll admit, as it lasted for almost two years. But personally, it's a huge improvement over other tiers I've been in on the Council that often last 3-6 months lol. The experience I've gotten around as a council member will be cherished along with this tier as a whole. It's been fun, and I couldn't do this without the whole council being there with me.
To end this post, I'll do the final shoutouts.
I'll start with Tack as the main reason I found this tier. I originally had the intent of the tier to troll her latest tiers she played at, and this tier had Duskull and Cubone, which I adored. I didn't expect to stay in, and the LC/ADV LC community is a strong reason why I decided to continue this tier. But without her, I'd not be here to begin with. Thank you, Tack, for being one of my closest and oldest friends online as a whole, as much as I've said it before, but your appearance matters to me so much more than you'd realize. We will still talk occasionally, even if it's not mons, but you're one of my goats for so many reasons I could list. Good luck in BWPL and your journey here, mate.
reggg summer islands Kaboom you guys are noticeably the ones that kept my competitive mindset as sharp as possible and one of the strong ones that kept me playing the tier, despite all of you not playing the tier anymore.
Reggg, it's been fun to actively push the tier along with you, and I'd be lying if I didn't take most of my offensive approaches/progress from you conceptually in LC fundamentals-wise to level up the building aspect. You really were the best ADV LC player before you stopped playing the tier. Summer Islands, aka Cawil/Mac for me, our friendly games on ADV LC and other tiers shaped my mindset on how people play and structure their builds, and I still find use from our games, despite the limited time. Thank you for the humour you've given me and for helping me in the process of getting better. I always enjoy someone who tries to push me and forces me to be uncomplacent in mons overall.
Kaboom, we may have had a recent friendship compared to most people, but I'm happy we got to talk, as there are so many things I've been thinking because of your replays/ideas. There are a lot of principles I've just gotten by watching your games and your comments that have carried me up here in the tier. Admittedly, I'm super ass at talking in long conversations, but I'm glad I met you. Not sure what will happen afterward, but I only wish the best for you in your mons/irl journey, as you've got that talent and strong experience. Take care!
naere you were truly my strongest rival out of anyone. We played so much together, even in playoffs, like twice. Idk who is truly the better player, as we are 4-4 against each other, but you could argue that the guaranteed win at LCBC gave you less of a reason to take it seriously, so it's favoured to you lol. Regardless, your optimization and how senseful your builds and plays made me have to constantly push myself to the max whenever I met you in the tournament. I'll definitely miss facing you, as our games were so fun, as we had a good amount of respect against each other and we played so precise af. But I wish the best of whatever you're doing; thanks for the intense matches!!
Alder ST Alder Alder Alder... My man, we've played a lot and known each other for so long. Despite our player-vs-player record, you've always been someone I've had to be aware of, especially the insane improvement you've been making as a player for not only ADV LC, but other tiers like UUBL, as your game sense, intuition, and long-term plays are drastically different from the past to now. While it was hard to understand your words sometimes, I truly felt like I understood the game whenever I played vs you, and I still remember the losses I took extremely hard on LCPL. Whatever you do, make sure to give them hell. You're a better player than you realize, and the results are not always the truth when it comes to performance. Good luck on your future bro, from a uni student myself, and you'll get what you want eventually.
shreyashhy I'm not sure where you are heading at, but since we also played so much against each other in such a short time, you deserved a shoutout along with Naere and Alder for the most amount of ADV LC games I've played vs the same opponent. You may not have beaten me directly, but you've definitely beaten me indirectly by me helping David Watts, Genisu, and Tandaman and taking money from me kek. With that said, you're finally getting the exposure you needed in the competitive scene, and whenever you still play ADV LC or focus on other tiers more, I want you to push yourself to get recognized and get rewarded in a deserving way with the effort you're bringing overall.
evakiyama! rineko Quinn I categorized you all in here as all of you are both the council members and my competitors, simply said.
Eva, once I played vs you at our first game at LCBC, I knew you were something special with these insane plays you did at Turn 19 - 22. What I didn't really take into account was that I had to deal with many of your builds in the future, especially in the LC Classic run where Baoba took my money with your builds, goddammit. I've even taken two losses in a row vs you; despite the context of the situation, I still got pretty owned, as our friendlies were favoured more towards you. I think at some point, we shared very similar ideas on what to build and bring, like at this point both of us LOVES using Gastly with many different sets and HP Ground Ponyta without telling each other directly, bc that is not a coincidence. Keep doing what you're doing in the tier; you're succeeding, and I've seen you cooking so much in other team tournaments. Hopefully you're not getting too burned out, as you do deserve breaks, but you do play for the love of the game alrighty. I'll admit that you were definitely the scariest opponent to face. Don't care about your inconsistent results early on; the fact that you gave me such an impression probably gave me a bit of a mental block lowkey lmao. You'd probably beat me harder than I would do vs you, as you and Celdanami are some of the few that make me a bit too uncomfortable enough that I don't have a strong answer. It seems like you may dominate here, but Shrey and many other future competitors will give you a challenge in the long term ;)
rineko I'm ngl, I didn't know you played ADV LC back in the 2010's until really late, when I went to lurk through the forums, so I felt like I really underestimated your influence on the tier. With that said, thank you for all the 2025-2026 inspirations of trying to build the tier in a way "out-of-the-box," as your ideas and talks have influenced me in a way that I do that with stronger intent and intuition combined. As a competitor, I wish we had more games against each other, as the LC community is brutally putting you on the support board with strong players, with you not getting so much spotlight until recently. It does speak itself on your support and the number of times your team has been in the playoffs. You may have a slower grind to get better as a player, but just to let you know is that you're getting better to the point you may give others a pain in the ass not only once, but as a consistent threat. I'll be able to help or discuss anything ADV LC to you if you ever need to catch up in DMs as you've so much ADV LC knowledge that rivals mine. Best wishes on the tier and managing the council along with the others and getting new ones; you're getting outright respect and decades of thanks from me.
Quinn Our relationship is weird. We don't usually talk a lot together, and we have only fought against each other once. I'll say though, once we do, we do have mad funny ones. From talking bout T-wave Snubbull lead abusing to you being my LPL14 manager and letting me play DPP LC against strong players, and then the funny one where you won a Slugma Plush from me in that Mix n Mega LC tournament lmao. So you've given me a very unique experience compared to most others. While your activity in the council has been on and off, I still appreciate your actions in the council, and I hope everything will go well for you and your Slugma gang. I'll say that your teams did cook me directly and indirectly in LCCL and LCPC this year,ngl lol, but overall ggs and thanks for the fun times we had.
There are more people I could mention, like Gawain, PoseidonWrath, Celdanami, Kurt, Colin, Plague, David, Raichy, Ecat, etc, but at this point this post is so long, and it'd be too much. If you've been involved with me and want a message similar to the above before I leave, dm me on Discord, please :)
Lastly, there's only one last person I want to mention, and it's none other than grape tylenol!
I've said some of my piece to her last year, but I've never gone in deep and kept it as short. I can't really put much into words, as thank you isn't enough for you reviving the tier after Aerow/Captain Levi's work in 2016. You've given the tier such a strong start that it ended up being a stabilized tier for LC overall for however long it will be; that is an accomplishment that's difficult to do. I'm so lucky that I was playing ADV LC when you were on the council, and I'll admit I've missed you a lot since your department. Your activity on the Discord is something I miss dearly, as I remember using that server as my daily to talk about anything. I know your ass was not happy with me, and others were building for dishonest bullshits tho haha, but besides my antics, I remember them fondly, and that gave me so much respect for you as a person. I still have the funny fanart you gave me, and keeps watching your art on Bluesky, even if you're very busy at your job as a software engineer atm. I hope what I did as a council member and a player did give enough positivity, I suppose, even if it's awkward for me to say it here like now. But there's always just self-doubt on myself, I suppose. Tycarter does often remind me how much I undervalue my influence on others overall. With that said, thanks once again. As I've said many times, I'll still continue being thankful for the 3 years I've put my time into the tier.
As far as it can, farewell, and I hope to see you another time!
To make it short, what happened in the whole early half year was the nail of my biggest concerns shoving up to my face. I've been rapidly playing and building teams for the tournaments, helped others in tournaments that asked me, and focused on developing the metagame with the intent of winning. This period was specifically noticeable as it was where ADV LC has its strongest competition at its state. I enjoyed a good side of the process on my actions and am proud of where I've ended up, but the problem was the time management and strong imbalance with IRL responsibilities. The strong lack of balance between IRL studies and games that are huge investments is one of my biggest personal flaws I've struggled to deal with as a person for so long. I'd hate to admit it, but the half year was a big reason for me failing to clear all the subjects of this second semester. It's embarrassing and a bit too personal for me to say this, but I feel like this is the best way to explain to everyone that I have been with instead of being so vague about it. This isn't anyone's fault but mine, and that's where it also leads me to make a decision to stop this from continuing. It's also why this year has been a bit of a lackluster one for me, as my preparation and performance have been weak. Everyone who has had me in the team tours knows my preparation has been uncompetitively late, the number of breaks I've taken in LCCL, ADPL, and ADVPL, and how my performance has always been a bit questionable. For that, I'm sorry, as I've been so sloppy to the point of reusing teams at some in ADV LC and hella hard on DPP/NFE, and it led me to be disappointed, especially when the teams are suspectable and my performance is mid.
When it comes to Competitive Singles/Smogon/Mons, I've always treated it with the mindset of a small-time, side hobby, only interested in learning about the tiers I enjoy with a mixture of casual and competitive interest. It's basically picking up tiers that have my favourite mons or other friends that play it, but the competitive interest is the enjoyment of the eventual metagame I want to further develop out as hard as I possibly can, without being on that level to play to win too much. Just learning about things from competitive games, from the metagame, the playerbase's skills with how people play the game, and just understanding more of the fundamental part of playing the game is what makes the time worth it and mainly why I'm still here. But as time goes on, I've lost most of the motivation, as I feel like I've accomplished most, if not all, of the things I desired to learn about due to high exposure to high/top tournament experience in the past years, besides the obvious studies. Now what happened in recent times is that I've become very aware of my strong rep(which I have mixed feelings about due to past experiences in NFE), with the combination of strong tournament performance and results, commitment on the tier, and helping other players. I became too important in a side hobby that's only supposed to be small-time, ending up overcommitting with a lack of control. I guess there's just being passionate, enjoying talking about the tier, and not saying much no does put me in the position where I'm at haha. As for the last one, I don't enjoy using half of my day to be on Smogon and Showdown. It's become so tedious to go to school/job, then use my time to sit on the laptop and play/talk mons. Too much time has been used for that, and I struggle to balance it around IRL; a bit of a burden of responsibilities and people asking me a lot in DMs. I don't want to miss my time to hang out with people IRL and want to spend my time on here, as I've just not enjoyed it nowadays.
I'll not let this end on a sour note, though. Despite all the high commitment that wasn't intended to begin with, I'm extremely proud of my accomplishments on this tier. I've been playing ADV LC for 3 years, and so much has been happening. I'm glad to see where I've pushed myself in metagame development, and I'm quite proud of the tournament results with a tournament score W/L score of 42/15 overall, missed playoffs only at LPL11 and ADVLTL 1, and my only negative tournament score is ADVLTL 1 of 1-4, but overall I've been averaging x-2 at most. Maybe it's a bit of boasting on my ego here, as some games don't feel like it counts due my opponent already won, but sometimes I can't stop smiling at the achievements I've made. I don't think I've gotten any acts as well in team tours, so this has been all hard gaming for me. I wish I did more as a council member, such as updating the resource frequently and especially not letting the Smogdex have outdated sets since the Porygon ban, but I'm glad I made up some of it by posting things on forums to say it at least. My time on the Council has been short; I'll admit, as it lasted for almost two years. But personally, it's a huge improvement over other tiers I've been in on the Council that often last 3-6 months lol. The experience I've gotten around as a council member will be cherished along with this tier as a whole. It's been fun, and I couldn't do this without the whole council being there with me.
To end this post, I'll do the final shoutouts.
I'll start with Tack as the main reason I found this tier. I originally had the intent of the tier to troll her latest tiers she played at, and this tier had Duskull and Cubone, which I adored. I didn't expect to stay in, and the LC/ADV LC community is a strong reason why I decided to continue this tier. But without her, I'd not be here to begin with. Thank you, Tack, for being one of my closest and oldest friends online as a whole, as much as I've said it before, but your appearance matters to me so much more than you'd realize. We will still talk occasionally, even if it's not mons, but you're one of my goats for so many reasons I could list. Good luck in BWPL and your journey here, mate.
reggg summer islands Kaboom you guys are noticeably the ones that kept my competitive mindset as sharp as possible and one of the strong ones that kept me playing the tier, despite all of you not playing the tier anymore.
Reggg, it's been fun to actively push the tier along with you, and I'd be lying if I didn't take most of my offensive approaches/progress from you conceptually in LC fundamentals-wise to level up the building aspect. You really were the best ADV LC player before you stopped playing the tier. Summer Islands, aka Cawil/Mac for me, our friendly games on ADV LC and other tiers shaped my mindset on how people play and structure their builds, and I still find use from our games, despite the limited time. Thank you for the humour you've given me and for helping me in the process of getting better. I always enjoy someone who tries to push me and forces me to be uncomplacent in mons overall.
Kaboom, we may have had a recent friendship compared to most people, but I'm happy we got to talk, as there are so many things I've been thinking because of your replays/ideas. There are a lot of principles I've just gotten by watching your games and your comments that have carried me up here in the tier. Admittedly, I'm super ass at talking in long conversations, but I'm glad I met you. Not sure what will happen afterward, but I only wish the best for you in your mons/irl journey, as you've got that talent and strong experience. Take care!
naere you were truly my strongest rival out of anyone. We played so much together, even in playoffs, like twice. Idk who is truly the better player, as we are 4-4 against each other, but you could argue that the guaranteed win at LCBC gave you less of a reason to take it seriously, so it's favoured to you lol. Regardless, your optimization and how senseful your builds and plays made me have to constantly push myself to the max whenever I met you in the tournament. I'll definitely miss facing you, as our games were so fun, as we had a good amount of respect against each other and we played so precise af. But I wish the best of whatever you're doing; thanks for the intense matches!!
Alder ST Alder Alder Alder... My man, we've played a lot and known each other for so long. Despite our player-vs-player record, you've always been someone I've had to be aware of, especially the insane improvement you've been making as a player for not only ADV LC, but other tiers like UUBL, as your game sense, intuition, and long-term plays are drastically different from the past to now. While it was hard to understand your words sometimes, I truly felt like I understood the game whenever I played vs you, and I still remember the losses I took extremely hard on LCPL. Whatever you do, make sure to give them hell. You're a better player than you realize, and the results are not always the truth when it comes to performance. Good luck on your future bro, from a uni student myself, and you'll get what you want eventually.
shreyashhy I'm not sure where you are heading at, but since we also played so much against each other in such a short time, you deserved a shoutout along with Naere and Alder for the most amount of ADV LC games I've played vs the same opponent. You may not have beaten me directly, but you've definitely beaten me indirectly by me helping David Watts, Genisu, and Tandaman and taking money from me kek. With that said, you're finally getting the exposure you needed in the competitive scene, and whenever you still play ADV LC or focus on other tiers more, I want you to push yourself to get recognized and get rewarded in a deserving way with the effort you're bringing overall.
evakiyama! rineko Quinn I categorized you all in here as all of you are both the council members and my competitors, simply said.
Eva, once I played vs you at our first game at LCBC, I knew you were something special with these insane plays you did at Turn 19 - 22. What I didn't really take into account was that I had to deal with many of your builds in the future, especially in the LC Classic run where Baoba took my money with your builds, goddammit. I've even taken two losses in a row vs you; despite the context of the situation, I still got pretty owned, as our friendlies were favoured more towards you. I think at some point, we shared very similar ideas on what to build and bring, like at this point both of us LOVES using Gastly with many different sets and HP Ground Ponyta without telling each other directly, bc that is not a coincidence. Keep doing what you're doing in the tier; you're succeeding, and I've seen you cooking so much in other team tournaments. Hopefully you're not getting too burned out, as you do deserve breaks, but you do play for the love of the game alrighty. I'll admit that you were definitely the scariest opponent to face. Don't care about your inconsistent results early on; the fact that you gave me such an impression probably gave me a bit of a mental block lowkey lmao. You'd probably beat me harder than I would do vs you, as you and Celdanami are some of the few that make me a bit too uncomfortable enough that I don't have a strong answer. It seems like you may dominate here, but Shrey and many other future competitors will give you a challenge in the long term ;)
rineko I'm ngl, I didn't know you played ADV LC back in the 2010's until really late, when I went to lurk through the forums, so I felt like I really underestimated your influence on the tier. With that said, thank you for all the 2025-2026 inspirations of trying to build the tier in a way "out-of-the-box," as your ideas and talks have influenced me in a way that I do that with stronger intent and intuition combined. As a competitor, I wish we had more games against each other, as the LC community is brutally putting you on the support board with strong players, with you not getting so much spotlight until recently. It does speak itself on your support and the number of times your team has been in the playoffs. You may have a slower grind to get better as a player, but just to let you know is that you're getting better to the point you may give others a pain in the ass not only once, but as a consistent threat. I'll be able to help or discuss anything ADV LC to you if you ever need to catch up in DMs as you've so much ADV LC knowledge that rivals mine. Best wishes on the tier and managing the council along with the others and getting new ones; you're getting outright respect and decades of thanks from me.
Quinn Our relationship is weird. We don't usually talk a lot together, and we have only fought against each other once. I'll say though, once we do, we do have mad funny ones. From talking bout T-wave Snubbull lead abusing to you being my LPL14 manager and letting me play DPP LC against strong players, and then the funny one where you won a Slugma Plush from me in that Mix n Mega LC tournament lmao. So you've given me a very unique experience compared to most others. While your activity in the council has been on and off, I still appreciate your actions in the council, and I hope everything will go well for you and your Slugma gang. I'll say that your teams did cook me directly and indirectly in LCCL and LCPC this year,ngl lol, but overall ggs and thanks for the fun times we had.
There are more people I could mention, like Gawain, PoseidonWrath, Celdanami, Kurt, Colin, Plague, David, Raichy, Ecat, etc, but at this point this post is so long, and it'd be too much. If you've been involved with me and want a message similar to the above before I leave, dm me on Discord, please :)
Lastly, there's only one last person I want to mention, and it's none other than grape tylenol!
I've said some of my piece to her last year, but I've never gone in deep and kept it as short. I can't really put much into words, as thank you isn't enough for you reviving the tier after Aerow/Captain Levi's work in 2016. You've given the tier such a strong start that it ended up being a stabilized tier for LC overall for however long it will be; that is an accomplishment that's difficult to do. I'm so lucky that I was playing ADV LC when you were on the council, and I'll admit I've missed you a lot since your department. Your activity on the Discord is something I miss dearly, as I remember using that server as my daily to talk about anything. I know your ass was not happy with me, and others were building for dishonest bullshits tho haha, but besides my antics, I remember them fondly, and that gave me so much respect for you as a person. I still have the funny fanart you gave me, and keeps watching your art on Bluesky, even if you're very busy at your job as a software engineer atm. I hope what I did as a council member and a player did give enough positivity, I suppose, even if it's awkward for me to say it here like now. But there's always just self-doubt on myself, I suppose. Tycarter does often remind me how much I undervalue my influence on others overall. With that said, thanks once again. As I've said many times, I'll still continue being thankful for the 3 years I've put my time into the tier.
As far as it can, farewell, and I hope to see you another time!
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Tiering Council Announcement
Following the departure of Shing and naere from ADV LC Council, we would like to welcome aboard Alder ST and shreyashhy! Both players are highly accomplished within the metagame and have been consistently active; they more than deserve their spot on the tiering council!
Following the departure of Shing and naere from ADV LC Council, we would like to welcome aboard Alder ST and shreyashhy! Both players are highly accomplished within the metagame and have been consistently active; they more than deserve their spot on the tiering council!
I just want to shout you out as the undisputed goat of ADV LC, and thank you personally for taking the time to make this game fun and accessible. I know I'm not alone when I say you're a big part of why this metagame and players like myself have been successful.
For real, thank you so much, and have fun touching grass :]
A little late to respond here, but I have really hardly seen someone put as much effort and care on this site into a specific tier like Shing did for this one. We wish you the best of luck Shing, and thanks a lot for what you have done here.
With that said, there is a greater demand for more people here to try and keep that very same passionate attention honed in on this tier that we love––myself included. There are a lot of really great, thoughtful people that are involved in ADV LC, and I am happy with the council additions, but I just want to reaffirm that the ball is now in our court in terms of making sure the activity of the tier stays lively and consistent. It is safe to say, if you look through the activity on Discord and in this thread, that this was one of the best things Shing brought to the tier, and not many other tiers receive that same sort of attention. Many people like to trash on ADV LC––sometimes for legitimate reasons––but the tier does still offer a striking amount of uniqueness and creative possibility that we as a playerbase can't allow to get muddied or lost.
Thanks again Shing. A lot of people playing ADV LC, myself certainly, would not be here without your leadership. Congrats also to the new council/tier leaders, you guys deserve it. There is still a lot of this tier to be played and discussed together, and I am looking forward to it.
You may have noticed that the some of the sample sets on the SmogDex have been updated, that's something we have been working on, and we've been primarily taking from the set compendium me and Shing posted earlier. Additionally, we aim to update the viability rankings around when ADVLTL concludes.
More importantly though, we have usage stats from last month's RoA Spotlight Ladder! Thanks to Marty and PS! staff for compiling all the usage stats! Hope everyone had fun trying out the ADV LC ladder!
More importantly though, we have usage stats from last month's RoA Spotlight Ladder! Thanks to Marty and PS! staff for compiling all the usage stats! Hope everyone had fun trying out the ADV LC ladder!
Code:
Total battles: 4182
Avg. weight/team: 1.000
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Wailmer | 52.66619% | 4405 | 52.666% | 3573 | 52.210% |
| 2 | Elekid | 51.25538% | 4287 | 51.255% | 3392 | 49.565% |
| 3 | Anorith | 35.78431% | 2993 | 35.784% | 2435 | 35.581% |
| 4 | Gastly | 34.66045% | 2899 | 34.660% | 2381 | 34.792% |
| 5 | Chinchou | 33.71593% | 2820 | 33.716% | 2447 | 35.757% |
| 6 | Trapinch | 31.59971% | 2643 | 31.600% | 2097 | 30.642% |
| 7 | Doduo | 31.55189% | 2639 | 31.552% | 2167 | 31.665% |
| 8 | Voltorb | 24.90435% | 2083 | 24.904% | 1792 | 26.185% |
| 9 | Snubbull | 24.65328% | 2062 | 24.653% | 1667 | 24.359% |
| 10 | Ponyta | 23.37398% | 1955 | 23.374% | 1558 | 22.766% |
| 11 | Bagon | 20.79149% | 1739 | 20.791% | 1248 | 18.236% |
| 12 | Staryu | 19.52415% | 1633 | 19.524% | 1444 | 21.100% |
| 13 | Cacnea | 13.53419% | 1132 | 13.534% | 1057 | 15.445% |
| 14 | Houndour | 13.39072% | 1120 | 13.391% | 882 | 12.888% |
| 15 | Lileep | 12.14730% | 1016 | 12.147% | 841 | 12.289% |
| 16 | Exeggcute | 12.00383% | 1004 | 12.004% | 758 | 11.076% |
| 17 | Larvitar | 11.17886% | 935 | 11.179% | 672 | 9.820% |
| 18 | Koffing | 11.08321% | 927 | 11.083% | 777 | 11.354% |
| 19 | Spoink | 9.43329% | 789 | 9.433% | 696 | 10.170% |
| 20 | Onix | 8.57245% | 717 | 8.572% | 609 | 8.899% |
| 21 | Cubone | 8.44094% | 706 | 8.441% | 606 | 8.855% |
| 22 | Magby | 8.16595% | 683 | 8.166% | 501 | 7.321% |
| 23 | Magnemite | 7.05404% | 590 | 7.054% | 505 | 7.379% |
| 24 | Horsea | 6.80297% | 569 | 6.803% | 450 | 6.576% |
| 25 | Pineco | 6.19321% | 518 | 6.193% | 501 | 7.321% |
| 26 | Duskull | 5.22477% | 437 | 5.225% | 382 | 5.582% |
| 27 | Mankey | 4.86609% | 407 | 4.866% | 335 | 4.895% |
| 28 | Treecko | 3.86179% | 323 | 3.862% | 264 | 3.858% |
| 29 | Meowth | 3.52702% | 295 | 3.527% | 281 | 4.106% |
| 30 | Krabby | 3.37159% | 282 | 3.372% | 211 | 3.083% |
| 31 | Snorunt | 3.22812% | 270 | 3.228% | 259 | 3.785% |
| 32 | Baltoy | 2.95313% | 247 | 2.953% | 210 | 3.069% |
| 33 | Togepi | 2.88140% | 241 | 2.881% | 225 | 3.288% |
| 34 | Aron | 2.65423% | 222 | 2.654% | 168 | 2.455% |
| 35 | Poliwag | 2.35533% | 197 | 2.355% | 160 | 2.338% |
| 36 | Charmander | 2.27164% | 190 | 2.272% | 130 | 1.900% |
| 37 | Lotad | 2.22382% | 186 | 2.224% | 152 | 2.221% |
| 38 | Grimer | 2.14012% | 179 | 2.140% | 154 | 2.250% |
| 39 | Oddish | 2.12817% | 178 | 2.128% | 137 | 2.002% |
| 40 | Azurill | 2.11621% | 177 | 2.116% | 133 | 1.943% |
| 41 | Drowzee | 1.94883% | 163 | 1.949% | 137 | 2.002% |
| 42 | Bulbasaur | 1.78144% | 149 | 1.781% | 123 | 1.797% |
| 43 | Kabuto | 1.74558% | 146 | 1.746% | 113 | 1.651% |
| 44 | Clamperl | 1.67384% | 140 | 1.674% | 119 | 1.739% |
| 45 | Bellsprout | 1.63797% | 137 | 1.638% | 117 | 1.710% |
| 46 | Growlithe | 1.41081% | 118 | 1.411% | 103 | 1.505% |
| 47 | Carvanha | 1.29125% | 108 | 1.291% | 89 | 1.301% |
| 48 | Chikorita | 1.17169% | 98 | 1.172% | 86 | 1.257% |
| 49 | Machop | 1.14778% | 96 | 1.148% | 82 | 1.198% |
| 50 | Wooper | 1.14778% | 96 | 1.148% | 90 | 1.315% |
| 51 | Sandshrew | 1.13582% | 95 | 1.136% | 72 | 1.052% |
| 52 | Natu | 1.12386% | 94 | 1.124% | 59 | 0.862% |
| 53 | Taillow | 1.12386% | 94 | 1.124% | 79 | 1.154% |
| 54 | Surskit | 1.12386% | 94 | 1.124% | 62 | 0.906% |
| 55 | Cyndaquil | 1.09995% | 92 | 1.100% | 76 | 1.111% |
| 56 | Phanpy | 1.09995% | 92 | 1.100% | 75 | 1.096% |
| 57 | Smoochum | 1.07604% | 90 | 1.076% | 69 | 1.008% |
| 58 | Rhyhorn | 1.07604% | 90 | 1.076% | 78 | 1.140% |
| 59 | Tentacool | 1.05213% | 88 | 1.052% | 73 | 1.067% |
| 60 | Venonat | 0.99235% | 83 | 0.992% | 69 | 1.008% |
| 61 | Ekans | 0.81301% | 68 | 0.813% | 54 | 0.789% |
| 62 | Remoraid | 0.80105% | 67 | 0.801% | 65 | 0.950% |
| 63 | Psyduck | 0.80105% | 67 | 0.801% | 51 | 0.745% |
| 64 | Shellder | 0.74127% | 62 | 0.741% | 45 | 0.658% |
| 65 | Barboach | 0.72932% | 61 | 0.729% | 47 | 0.687% |
| 66 | Tyrogue | 0.66954% | 56 | 0.670% | 38 | 0.555% |
| 67 | Teddiursa | 0.58584% | 49 | 0.586% | 47 | 0.687% |
| 68 | Geodude | 0.56193% | 47 | 0.562% | 33 | 0.482% |
| 69 | Slowpoke | 0.56193% | 47 | 0.562% | 33 | 0.482% |
| 70 | Dratini | 0.52606% | 44 | 0.526% | 39 | 0.570% |
| 71 | Torchic | 0.51411% | 43 | 0.514% | 25 | 0.365% |
| 72 | Shuppet | 0.49020% | 41 | 0.490% | 34 | 0.497% |
| 73 | Cleffa | 0.41846% | 35 | 0.418% | 27 | 0.395% |
| 74 | Mudkip | 0.41846% | 35 | 0.418% | 31 | 0.453% |
| 75 | Rattata | 0.40650% | 34 | 0.407% | 33 | 0.482% |
| 76 | Goldeen | 0.35868% | 30 | 0.359% | 21 | 0.307% |
| 77 | Gulpin | 0.34672% | 29 | 0.347% | 27 | 0.395% |
| 78 | Corphish | 0.34672% | 29 | 0.347% | 25 | 0.365% |
| 79 | Numel | 0.32281% | 27 | 0.323% | 23 | 0.336% |
| 80 | Ralts | 0.31086% | 26 | 0.311% | 19 | 0.278% |
| 81 | Hoppip | 0.27499% | 23 | 0.275% | 19 | 0.278% |
| 82 | Skitty | 0.25108% | 21 | 0.251% | 17 | 0.248% |
| 83 | Eevee | 0.25108% | 21 | 0.251% | 14 | 0.205% |
| 84 | Paras | 0.23912% | 20 | 0.239% | 18 | 0.263% |
| 85 | Nincada | 0.23912% | 20 | 0.239% | 11 | 0.161% |
| 86 | Zubat | 0.23912% | 20 | 0.239% | 18 | 0.263% |
| 87 | Magikarp | 0.22716% | 19 | 0.227% | 16 | 0.234% |
| 88 | Totodile | 0.20325% | 17 | 0.203% | 15 | 0.219% |
| 89 | Vulpix | 0.20325% | 17 | 0.203% | 17 | 0.248% |
| 90 | Pichu | 0.17934% | 15 | 0.179% | 11 | 0.161% |
| 91 | Spheal | 0.17934% | 15 | 0.179% | 15 | 0.219% |
| 92 | Makuhita | 0.17934% | 15 | 0.179% | 15 | 0.219% |
| 93 | Swablu | 0.16738% | 14 | 0.167% | 13 | 0.190% |
| 94 | Squirtle | 0.16738% | 14 | 0.167% | 10 | 0.146% |
| 95 | Mareep | 0.11956% | 10 | 0.120% | 10 | 0.146% |
| 96 | Hoothoot | 0.11956% | 10 | 0.120% | 8 | 0.117% |
| 97 | Caterpie | 0.10760% | 9 | 0.108% | 9 | 0.132% |
| 98 | NidoranF | 0.10760% | 9 | 0.108% | 9 | 0.132% |
| 99 | Pidgey | 0.09565% | 8 | 0.096% | 7 | 0.102% |
| 100 | Spinarak | 0.09565% | 8 | 0.096% | 6 | 0.088% |
| 101 | Seedot | 0.08369% | 7 | 0.084% | 6 | 0.088% |
| 102 | Shroomish | 0.08369% | 7 | 0.084% | 6 | 0.088% |
| 103 | Wurmple | 0.07174% | 6 | 0.072% | 4 | 0.058% |
| 104 | Electrike | 0.07174% | 6 | 0.072% | 6 | 0.088% |
| 105 | Slugma | 0.05978% | 5 | 0.060% | 5 | 0.073% |
| 106 | Wingull | 0.05978% | 5 | 0.060% | 4 | 0.058% |
| 107 | Spearow | 0.05978% | 5 | 0.060% | 5 | 0.073% |
| 108 | Igglybuff | 0.05978% | 5 | 0.060% | 3 | 0.044% |
| 109 | Whismur | 0.05978% | 5 | 0.060% | 2 | 0.029% |
| 110 | Weedle | 0.04782% | 4 | 0.048% | 2 | 0.029% |
| 111 | Feebas | 0.04782% | 4 | 0.048% | 4 | 0.058% |
| 112 | Swinub | 0.04782% | 4 | 0.048% | 4 | 0.058% |
| 113 | Beldum | 0.03587% | 3 | 0.036% | 3 | 0.044% |
| 114 | Ledyba | 0.03587% | 3 | 0.036% | 1 | 0.015% |
| 115 | Seel | 0.02391% | 2 | 0.024% | 2 | 0.029% |
| 116 | Sunkern | 0.01196% | 1 | 0.012% | 1 | 0.015% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
There haven't been any tier lists posted since the Abra ban and I fluked my way to 2nd in the ROA Spotlight so I'm gonna use that as an excuse to inflict my bad takes on y'all.
Tiers are ordered but below B+ they get increasingly fuzzy.
Overall I think the tier is in a fun spot. It does have a lot of hax, but to a certain extent that's probably unavoidable when everything is as fragile as it is in LC, and at least the speed ties are at a minimum and if you do get haxxed, the game will be over quickly.
:Chinchou: Incredible into so much of the meta. Sometimes being a Jack of all trades is actually pretty nice. Reasonably bulky, deals a decent amount of damage, good coverage, decent speed. I probably overuse it, but it's so far ahead of 2nd place in my usage I can't justify putting it anywhere else. I will note that I expect most people would put Wailmer and Elekid ahead of Chinchou.
:Elekid: The superior of the two fast electrics imo, Ice Punch is such great coverage, which makes Petaya Elekid a genuine sweeping threat in a way that Voltorb just isn't. Might be #1 if Trapinch didn't exist. Static is also a massive potential punish against Quick Attack and Thief.
:Wailmer: Call me a bit of a Wailmer skeptic. It's got a pretty mid speed tier, it's "bulky" but still seems to get one-shot a lot, there are a LOT of thunderbolts being thrown around in this tier, it's got the funny button but how often do you actually get to click Water Spout at full HP into a non-resist? I can't disrespect it by putting it lower than 3 though, that would be crazy.
:Snubbull: Bulky. Hits hard. Has intimidate. If it didn't have a speed tier usually reserved for sloths and potted plants, this thing would be broken as all hell. Bulk Up can also absolutely win games, although personally I think people click it too often -- just attacking is often enough when things are as fragile as they are in this tier.
:Voltorb: Elekid but you get Explosion instead of Ice Punch, which you'd think would be better, but it doesn't seem that way. Can enable sweepers with Rain Dance, Light Screen, and/or a boom at the right time. Also has static, but tends to take fewer contact hits, so a bit less relevant.
:Anorith: Hate this guy. Rock Blast being 80% makes it so unreliable, but the ability to beat subs is generally worth the 10% accuracy less than Rock Slide. Also can steal games by getting the 5-hit. Undeniably the best of the Salac sweepers though: the speed makes it a lot more reliable to sub down, and the normal resist means Quick Attack can only pick you off if it's from a CB Doduo. You also need to respect CB Anorith. <- person who did not respect CB Anorith
:Elekid: The superior of the two fast electrics imo, Ice Punch is such great coverage, which makes Petaya Elekid a genuine sweeping threat in a way that Voltorb just isn't. Might be #1 if Trapinch didn't exist. Static is also a massive potential punish against Quick Attack and Thief.
:Wailmer: Call me a bit of a Wailmer skeptic. It's got a pretty mid speed tier, it's "bulky" but still seems to get one-shot a lot, there are a LOT of thunderbolts being thrown around in this tier, it's got the funny button but how often do you actually get to click Water Spout at full HP into a non-resist? I can't disrespect it by putting it lower than 3 though, that would be crazy.
:Snubbull: Bulky. Hits hard. Has intimidate. If it didn't have a speed tier usually reserved for sloths and potted plants, this thing would be broken as all hell. Bulk Up can also absolutely win games, although personally I think people click it too often -- just attacking is often enough when things are as fragile as they are in this tier.
:Voltorb: Elekid but you get Explosion instead of Ice Punch, which you'd think would be better, but it doesn't seem that way. Can enable sweepers with Rain Dance, Light Screen, and/or a boom at the right time. Also has static, but tends to take fewer contact hits, so a bit less relevant.
:Anorith: Hate this guy. Rock Blast being 80% makes it so unreliable, but the ability to beat subs is generally worth the 10% accuracy less than Rock Slide. Also can steal games by getting the 5-hit. Undeniably the best of the Salac sweepers though: the speed makes it a lot more reliable to sub down, and the normal resist means Quick Attack can only pick you off if it's from a CB Doduo. You also need to respect CB Anorith. <- person who did not respect CB Anorith
:Doduo: It's got the same type of funny delete button as Wailmer but it actually has the speed tier to take advantage of it. CB STAB Quick Attack is also a really nice tool to have in a tier where there are so many pinch berries. CB Doduo is the only (Tyrogue is not real) mon that can do enough priority damage to kill a Anorith after a Salac proc. Sub Flail Doduo is also good fun. On the other hand, if the opponent is ready for it, it's often just a momentum loss.
:Staryu: Fast. Good movepool. Wish it did more damage.
:Trapinch: Mortal enemy of Elekid. Sometimes feels a bit matchup-fishy, but it's also good into Voltorb, Ponyta, and Anorith, so it'll usually have something to target. At the very least, Quick Attack is good to have. I'm skeptical about CB on Trapinch. You don't need the power boost to OKHO your primary targets, you give up the ability to play endure mindgames with Voltorb, and if your opponent figures out you have CB it's a severe momentum loss.
:Ponyta: Big ball o' stats, mildly unfortunate typing. Even with the speed tier, I usually like running quick attack on it for insurance vs sweepers. The best fire moves have miss chance, which sucks. Sunny day is also an option.
:Gastly: Feels like it should be better than it is, but it's frail, and no STAB means it doesn't do that much damage. Still, ghost is a great type, and it has good (albeit prediction reliant) tools like Destiny Bond, Explosion, and Will-o-Wisp. Thief is also nice on such a fast mon.
:Staryu: Fast. Good movepool. Wish it did more damage.
:Trapinch: Mortal enemy of Elekid. Sometimes feels a bit matchup-fishy, but it's also good into Voltorb, Ponyta, and Anorith, so it'll usually have something to target. At the very least, Quick Attack is good to have. I'm skeptical about CB on Trapinch. You don't need the power boost to OKHO your primary targets, you give up the ability to play endure mindgames with Voltorb, and if your opponent figures out you have CB it's a severe momentum loss.
:Ponyta: Big ball o' stats, mildly unfortunate typing. Even with the speed tier, I usually like running quick attack on it for insurance vs sweepers. The best fire moves have miss chance, which sucks. Sunny day is also an option.
:Gastly: Feels like it should be better than it is, but it's frail, and no STAB means it doesn't do that much damage. Still, ghost is a great type, and it has good (albeit prediction reliant) tools like Destiny Bond, Explosion, and Will-o-Wisp. Thief is also nice on such a fast mon.
:Lileep: I gather it's not as good as it used to be, but it's still super bulky. Struggles a bit with passivity but it's surprisingly easy to build a team that has no Lileep answer.
:Onix: Did you know that with max HP and a +Def nature, Onix guaranteed lives a +2 Anorith Brick Break? Now you do! Completely invalidates physical attackers, at the low, low cost of a 4x weakness to Grass and Water. Luckily, nobody clicks attacks of those types, right?
:Bagon: Typing and reasonable bulk allows it the safest setup of all the setup sweepers. Unfortunately even after a DD it still struggles to get OHKOs on things. Even 2 DDs sometimes isn't enough. No STAB and low base power coverage sucks. Can still absolutely sweep you if you aren't careful.
:Horsea: The best weather sweeper. Unfortunately has negative special bulk so getting the opportunity to set rain is nontrivial. Voltorb Rain Dance -> Boom is often your best bet, but then you only have 3 turns of rain left. Also will struggle to KO Water resists. Inconsistent but if you don't have a water resist then goodnight.
:Cubone: It's terrifying to have this guy on the field in front of you, there are absolutely no good switch-ins. Bonemerang is also a funny move to use on an Elekid (or other mon, but it's usually Elekid) that just subbed as you switched in. However, it's slow and frail-ish and there are a lot of water and grass moves flying around.
:Spoink: Very bulky, can be a huge nuisance with Thief.
:Cacnea: I've seen a lot of people get rolled by this thing. I certainly did the first time I saw it. Even afterwards, it's still a good mon. Good stats, good typing, Spikes, Encore, Destiny Bond. Spikes are way less good than in other formats, but the upside of them being so rare is almost no one carries Rapid Spin. P.S. If you run sandstorm on this, no one likes you.
:Exeggcute: Time for our favorite minigame: is it sunny day? Is it stun spore? Can be really annoying to deal with. Both types of Eggy have very high ceilings. Unfortunately, they also have low floors. Stun Spore is 75% accurate and blocked by Sub. Eggy is bulkier than Horsea but has enough weaknesses that getting a window to set up sun is still nontrivial, and Voltorb doesn't get Sunny Day so it's gotta set it up itself.
:Machop: Fighting-type Snubbull without Intimidate. Generally Snubbull is significantly better but sometimes you want the type difference. Machop can also usually (depends on EVs) OHKO Snubbull through intimidate (or Bulk Up) with Cross Chop. Major downside though is your STAB is Brick Break (which just misses on a lot of important KOs) or Cross Chop (which just misses 20% of the time).
:Houndour: Pursuit is a lot less useful with Abra gone, and now Ponyta's amazing speed tier, better bulk, mixed attacking potential, and access to Quick Attack mean a ton of Houndour's niche is gone. It still does have endure-reversal shenanigans going for it, though.
:Onix: Did you know that with max HP and a +Def nature, Onix guaranteed lives a +2 Anorith Brick Break? Now you do! Completely invalidates physical attackers, at the low, low cost of a 4x weakness to Grass and Water. Luckily, nobody clicks attacks of those types, right?
:Bagon: Typing and reasonable bulk allows it the safest setup of all the setup sweepers. Unfortunately even after a DD it still struggles to get OHKOs on things. Even 2 DDs sometimes isn't enough. No STAB and low base power coverage sucks. Can still absolutely sweep you if you aren't careful.
:Horsea: The best weather sweeper. Unfortunately has negative special bulk so getting the opportunity to set rain is nontrivial. Voltorb Rain Dance -> Boom is often your best bet, but then you only have 3 turns of rain left. Also will struggle to KO Water resists. Inconsistent but if you don't have a water resist then goodnight.
:Cubone: It's terrifying to have this guy on the field in front of you, there are absolutely no good switch-ins. Bonemerang is also a funny move to use on an Elekid (or other mon, but it's usually Elekid) that just subbed as you switched in. However, it's slow and frail-ish and there are a lot of water and grass moves flying around.
:Spoink: Very bulky, can be a huge nuisance with Thief.
:Cacnea: I've seen a lot of people get rolled by this thing. I certainly did the first time I saw it. Even afterwards, it's still a good mon. Good stats, good typing, Spikes, Encore, Destiny Bond. Spikes are way less good than in other formats, but the upside of them being so rare is almost no one carries Rapid Spin. P.S. If you run sandstorm on this, no one likes you.
:Exeggcute: Time for our favorite minigame: is it sunny day? Is it stun spore? Can be really annoying to deal with. Both types of Eggy have very high ceilings. Unfortunately, they also have low floors. Stun Spore is 75% accurate and blocked by Sub. Eggy is bulkier than Horsea but has enough weaknesses that getting a window to set up sun is still nontrivial, and Voltorb doesn't get Sunny Day so it's gotta set it up itself.
:Machop: Fighting-type Snubbull without Intimidate. Generally Snubbull is significantly better but sometimes you want the type difference. Machop can also usually (depends on EVs) OHKO Snubbull through intimidate (or Bulk Up) with Cross Chop. Major downside though is your STAB is Brick Break (which just misses on a lot of important KOs) or Cross Chop (which just misses 20% of the time).
:Houndour: Pursuit is a lot less useful with Abra gone, and now Ponyta's amazing speed tier, better bulk, mixed attacking potential, and access to Quick Attack mean a ton of Houndour's niche is gone. It still does have endure-reversal shenanigans going for it, though.
:Togepi: Serene Grace Body Slam is the most reliable way to spread para in a tier where everything is running substitute. Not actually bulky, but much bulkier than it looks. Runs counter.
:Koffing: If you want Onix that trades its speed and some of its physical bulk for losing its 4x weaknesses. Personally, I rather prefer Onix. Koffing does have Wisp, which can make it harder to switch into. Koffing also has Memento, if you can find a use case for that.
:Mankey: Machop except fast and not bulky. Unfortunately "fast" in this case is only 17 speed which is less fast than you'd hope. Can also do salac berry reversal shenanigans. I think Doduo fills that niche better since it's one speed higher, which makes it easier to get subs off, and since everyone expects CB so there's more surprise value.
:Sandshrew: The second-best Swords Dance Salac Sweeper. Anorith is usually better because it has the speed to actually reliably sub down, but Sandslash has STAB EQ, so that's something. Because of the slow starting speed, Endure is generally more reliable than Sub to get your Salac proc, which does make it a bit prediction reliant.
:Magnemite: It's a strong electric type, but it's slow and there are three other strong electric types. It's a normal resist, but there's a lot of normal-resists that don't come with a 4x physical weakness.
:Pineco: Spikes + Explosion is really good on paper. It also has screens. In practice not only are spikes not the most impactful in this tier, it's a little too easy to kill and a little too straightforward. Cacnea is usually the better spiker.
:Magby: Ban confuse ray pls. Not broken, but is annoying. Also has Sub-punch. Otherwise outclassed by Ponyta.
:Larvitar: "Fragile" and "Multiple Common 4x Weaknesses" are tough attributes for a setup sweeper, but at least you get a good reward if you do manage to set up, with dual Physical STAB and a resistance to Quick Attack.
:Meowth: Fast normal type. Has Fake Out.
:Duskull: Kinda like Spoink with a better type and more physical bulk, at the cost of speed, damage, and a bit of special bulk. I haven't actually used this mon, so I don't have a great feel for where it should go.
:Koffing: If you want Onix that trades its speed and some of its physical bulk for losing its 4x weaknesses. Personally, I rather prefer Onix. Koffing does have Wisp, which can make it harder to switch into. Koffing also has Memento, if you can find a use case for that.
:Mankey: Machop except fast and not bulky. Unfortunately "fast" in this case is only 17 speed which is less fast than you'd hope. Can also do salac berry reversal shenanigans. I think Doduo fills that niche better since it's one speed higher, which makes it easier to get subs off, and since everyone expects CB so there's more surprise value.
:Sandshrew: The second-best Swords Dance Salac Sweeper. Anorith is usually better because it has the speed to actually reliably sub down, but Sandslash has STAB EQ, so that's something. Because of the slow starting speed, Endure is generally more reliable than Sub to get your Salac proc, which does make it a bit prediction reliant.
:Magnemite: It's a strong electric type, but it's slow and there are three other strong electric types. It's a normal resist, but there's a lot of normal-resists that don't come with a 4x physical weakness.
:Pineco: Spikes + Explosion is really good on paper. It also has screens. In practice not only are spikes not the most impactful in this tier, it's a little too easy to kill and a little too straightforward. Cacnea is usually the better spiker.
:Magby: Ban confuse ray pls. Not broken, but is annoying. Also has Sub-punch. Otherwise outclassed by Ponyta.
:Larvitar: "Fragile" and "Multiple Common 4x Weaknesses" are tough attributes for a setup sweeper, but at least you get a good reward if you do manage to set up, with dual Physical STAB and a resistance to Quick Attack.
:Meowth: Fast normal type. Has Fake Out.
:Duskull: Kinda like Spoink with a better type and more physical bulk, at the cost of speed, damage, and a bit of special bulk. I haven't actually used this mon, so I don't have a great feel for where it should go.
:Treecko: Fast Overgrow Petaya sweeper. I'm not 100% sold on its viability but there are a lot of good players using it so I might be ranking it too low.
:Azurill: Cubone if it was weaker and had no coverage. The item slot is nice, but not quite nice enough.
:Venonat: Compoundeyes Stun Spore is really really good now that twave is gone. Unfortunately, being slow and fragile makes it a bit tough to use, especially since Substitute just completely shuts you down and Sub is everywhere. I'd recommend sticking to Togepi or Eggy for your para needs.
:Oddish: Eggy just seems so much better.
:Teddiursa: Similar to Sandshrew, but ranked lower since there's a lot more competition in the big normal type damage niche.
:Grimer: Sticky Hold makes it a Thief switch-in (vital niche, I know). Has Boom and decent stats.
:Lotad: I'm very unsold on Lotad as a Swift Swim sweeper, it's numbers are just so low. You can enter on Wailmer which is nice, but then what? They probably have an answer and if they don't they can always just boom you. Which is good value for a Lotad I guess but still.
:Drowzee: You may have seen me running around with a Drowzee. Apparently Spoink just strictly outclasses Drowzee at the role I was using it in. Oops!
:Azurill: Cubone if it was weaker and had no coverage. The item slot is nice, but not quite nice enough.
:Venonat: Compoundeyes Stun Spore is really really good now that twave is gone. Unfortunately, being slow and fragile makes it a bit tough to use, especially since Substitute just completely shuts you down and Sub is everywhere. I'd recommend sticking to Togepi or Eggy for your para needs.
:Oddish: Eggy just seems so much better.
:Teddiursa: Similar to Sandshrew, but ranked lower since there's a lot more competition in the big normal type damage niche.
:Grimer: Sticky Hold makes it a Thief switch-in (vital niche, I know). Has Boom and decent stats.
:Lotad: I'm very unsold on Lotad as a Swift Swim sweeper, it's numbers are just so low. You can enter on Wailmer which is nice, but then what? They probably have an answer and if they don't they can always just boom you. Which is good value for a Lotad I guess but still.
:Drowzee: You may have seen me running around with a Drowzee. Apparently Spoink just strictly outclasses Drowzee at the role I was using it in. Oops!
:Poliwag: Fast Belly Drum is very scary. Unfortunately, not only is surviving the turn you click it nontrivial, if your opponent is running either fast electric you do nothing.
:Swablu: Fluffy.
:Swablu: Fluffy.
Overall I think the tier is in a fun spot. It does have a lot of hax, but to a certain extent that's probably unavoidable when everything is as fragile as it is in LC, and at least the speed ties are at a minimum and if you do get haxxed, the game will be over quickly.
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