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LC Classic General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Hacker
- Start date
Apologies for my lack of post. I planned on doing a video breaking down the finals--once I set up a mic it is in the works--for now I'll go over some of my games from one of my series.
Here is my tiebreak series against Voltix which got me into the playoffs.
This is probably the first real few lines of me attempting to prep:
I forgot what my order of picks was--I hate DPP so the idea was to take out DPP--but he managed to take out ORAS like a champ which was a great call and honestly changes the dynamic of this series a lot. I would be a lot more confident in a series without DPP because of the stupid insane flips and calls you have to make in that tier.
Game 1: ADV
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3lc-934206
I ended up bringing things I don't usually use in ADV--my go-to so far was just old evakiyama teams from last year's LCPL but Shing gave me a team with Voltorb and Salac Anorith.
The lead played out quite nicely, I got crit on Rock Blast but it only 2-hit me. A 4-hit would be needed to kill--luckily that or the in-game crit with 3 hits did not happen--but I did have to follow up my initial HP Ground with a Thunder to actually kill the anorith so I definitely got some end of lower than 50% odds to fully win the interaction in the way I did. I immediately follow up my significant advantage by deciding to impatiently boom on his chou... as he goes Gastly to claim my sacrifice. HP Grounding was better, forcing him to pivot into possibly the same sequence later or trade HP like I want, basically anything was better than immediately booming because it was a fairly easy read for him and it just completely got me.
I go into Wailmer, and I'm not 100% sure about this play either. Sitrus doesn't activate during the turn, meaning the Water Spout I go for is not so free if he attacks; my Water Spout does basically zero damage because he chooses to attack (this is a very obvious Icy Wind play if my Wailmer has it, but I don't). What is good, though, is that TBolt from Elekid can now kill the revealed-SDef Gastly, and I get a free sub on the lileep switch. I end up freezing the lileep and low into high rolling which is the only way you 2hko, which is massively fortunate and basically seals the game up; I also hp ground the chinchou and crit it LMFAO. I go Anorith on his Snubbull switch, Swords Dance as he goes Gas, and because I can Endure to avoid the 50/50 he basically loses because Snub and the unrevealed Carvanha don't do anything to Anorith.
Game 2: DPP
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4lc-934211
The negative karma from that ADV game comes back to me pretty much immediately in the form of a confusion self-hit vs lead machop. I somehow hit Wisp through confuse vs a Gligar and my Zor can get stealth rocks up, so it seems like I've stabilized; my Koffing even tanks the Lax damage to threaten Thief and steals Oran from the burned Gligar, effectively putting me up 6-5. For some reason I just let the Koffing die to Gastly (I feel like he's done his job?). My Munch loses 1v1 to a LO gastly because wisp chips me and then I get sludge bomb crit--I'm still owed two bad events if you believe in karma but this is enough to put me in a bad position because DPP just moves so fast. I go Gligar, he goes munch on Glig to threaten ice punch, and I make the move of going Snover on Munch because Bronzor does zero to it and would probably just die while doing 20% back. I yolo by going Snover in order to protect + wood hammer and get rid of this stupid munchlax, at this point my mind does say that SD snover is one of the few things that sweeps but NONE of tthe revealed mons give it a setup turn. Him going Gastly on protect and THEN clicking sucker is so crucial to just shutting me out of the game--switching is pointless vs a priority mon in doduo because there's no lategame sweep to be had and worst case for him my snover kills itself with wood hammer on the munchlax, just minimal value to be gained. He keeps working me though by going munchlax on my bronzor switch, perhaps not necessary on his end bc I think he wins anyway but it's just a really good way to seal the game. I get the munch in snover range with psy and kill him with wood hammer. I go to the only other mon that can possibly 1v3 in Dratini but he goes Machop. +1 espeed quite easily kills doduo but I have to outrage to get rid of the machop--the game is basically lost. I try going for some weird outrage roll/crit by just straight outraging--I'm pretty sure dpunch is a roll to kill here-- but he just sacs the chou and at some point I'm forced to outrage so I'm not certain it mattered (fairly sure one of doduo or chinchou is a faster scarfer along with the later-revealed scarf chop). The scarf chop Ice Punches now that I'm in range, and sweeps. pretty dire game, despite luck he just worked me here.
Game 2: BW
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5lc-934221
This is one of his weaker gens, so I was aware that winning here would put me in quite a good position for the series, leaving us with our main tiers to duke it out, me in SS and him in SM.
my goat finally won in LCPL too. Voltix king
My lead starts out phenomenally--lead Gastly vs Foo. Even with Payback, Wisp is just too nice to click. He goes ferro and I miss the Wisp that would've given me like an insane amount of momentum/chip. Not too bad though, right? I can still chip him with HP fire...
Guess we're in for another shitshow. Every sac in a GastBra matchup is just so important that the last 40-45% of ferros's hp being gone is huge, this crit gives me a crucial advantage and keeps Rocks off the field so I can use Vullaby easier.
He goes Abra, I go vull to counter it because his strongest move against me in BW is Charge Beam. I uturn on the chou into Aipom and make a great read with Fury Swipes into the Mienfoo, almost killing it. I didn't even remember going Ferro to chip the Fake out--absolutely absurd cycle that lets the Aipom in later with Fake up to clean too. The game is basically won at this point, Fake out + vull + all the other things are just too good at beating the chou and vull and scarf Drilbur is quite decent vs the +1 speed vull to revenge kill. A combination of one really lucky moment and a good close-out with a couple of tight reads.
Game 4: SS
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8lc-934226
He goes for the fences, picking my "home" tier of sorts and leaving SM for game 5, very respectable move putting the onus on me to try to win. I use... my LCPL 13 finals team that I'd been spamming along with my week 3 team in basically the only open where I got any points for playoffs.
I lead Koffing into Abra and switch Scarf Pawniard into a Fire Punch. Not exactly an inspiring start. I Knock the Timburr switch, which is some progress, but it kind of starts a timer that most of this team has into some of his mons--my counters in Pony and Koffing either semi-let in Carv and fully let in Mareanie, or jsut get Knocked and then OHKOed by a special breaker or now 2HKOed by the physical mons respectively. I have to play fast here.
I go koff on the Knock off (it doesn't have a recovery move), and go for a pretty free TBolt into the Abra switch. This time he doesn't call the Pawniard switch, and I... Brick Break him as he stays in and Fire Punches
He still has to switch out, choosing Vull as the Dig double into Mareanie is quite menacing, and I go Omanyte to set up Rocks and take the Knock. I get SR up on the U-turn and Knock the Mareanie switch-in, so now none of the Diglett rolls or chip matter--it's a clear, easy countertrap. Vullaby blows its berry juice switching in and I pony as he brave birds (no burn this turn).
This does mean that the Pony is not knocked, which is quite crucial in these games if you are trying to beat it at all--it's not like Pony counter Carv is exactly advisable-- I think me Wisping the Carv switch could be a good or bad play. Yes, it's better than Morning Sun on the Knock if I don't Flame Body burn, but the rationale for it is to let Grookey sweep because Drain punch + grass move cleans out everything but Burr. I definitely think something like Flame Charge or Flare blitz into the vull is kind of a throw, because his only way of killing the Ponyta aside from Carv is making a read that I attack and killing me back. Either way, hard Carv is a great read understanding that I can't attack. I go Grookey at the protect--absolute heartbreaker if he IBs there as I might lose my lead--and I go for a U-turn here despite what I said earlier. My thinking here is that if I drain Punch on the vull switch, Grassy Glide doesn't kill after. This means I either 1. sack pawniard and trade evio on Pony (which can let carv in again)/HP on koff (timburr claims without him minus pony, which might be forced to wisp/morning sun letting carv in) or 2. sac one of koffing, pony, or dig (see 1. for the others but as far as dig goes, special dig doesn't 100% beat anything here but it can ohko everything and the value of sub vs carv/pawniard is insane. Killing the Pawniard probably won on the spot, my play might be too noncommittal, but the overall free flame charge into Pawniard I get is really nice. This time though, Carv puts me in a really rough situation with Grassy TErrain turns (sac into Grookey leaves 1 turn left, enjoy getting protected. this might be timer brain because I just live grookey? i'm kind of a noob with this play? sac pawniard, hello) and Voltix completely calls my Grookey switch which almost threw the game. I don't understand why he went Vull instead of protecting and claiming a free kill, but maybe he thought the Grook got too much value with 5 turns of terrain up (3 after protect + switch). He goes into vull, which I want just 45% more chip on more than anything in the world to spam Grassy Glide, and reveals protect, which didn't come into play earlier but I hadn't even considered.
At this point in the endgame, Grookey doesn't autowin. Grassy Glide on the Pawniard switch doesn't let me follow up with Drain Punch because I stupidly took an insane amount of chip. I go Pony on the Vull Knock off and recover on a Brave bird (I think I at least have a chance to live), no dice on the burn either time. I try to use pawn to revenge kill, he scouts with protect and goes to his own pawn. Here's where I start really gaming.
I have to go Grookey on the free stealth rock to keep it alive. Otherwise, it dies to rocks. I get the one HP of terrain recovery. Good prediction!
I haven't revealed Drain Punch yet, but I feel in my gut that he's just gonna sucker, because if I outplay him with Glide I barely do any damage and the terrain will eventually run out. I go Diglett.
The plan is to obviously sub at least once, because Dig has only revealed Earth Power and these special Diglett sets definitely do not mandate sub, and he suckers. I got my kill.
He goes to revenge kill with Timburr, I'm at 78% HP (14 HP) and
This didn't matter to the game at all but this was funny:
funny how this happens after I call every dpp game a coinflip lol. so many of those in this game
Really good series against a great player. At this point in the tour, I wasn't exactly confident in my SM. I know I can beat anyone, and I would've showed up to play, but I am glad I closed it out in 4 because that game 5 against one of the best SM players on the site would've been a slog.
Here is my tiebreak series against Voltix which got me into the playoffs.
This is probably the first real few lines of me attempting to prep:
I forgot what my order of picks was--I hate DPP so the idea was to take out DPP--but he managed to take out ORAS like a champ which was a great call and honestly changes the dynamic of this series a lot. I would be a lot more confident in a series without DPP because of the stupid insane flips and calls you have to make in that tier.
Game 1: ADV
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3lc-934206
I ended up bringing things I don't usually use in ADV--my go-to so far was just old evakiyama teams from last year's LCPL but Shing gave me a team with Voltorb and Salac Anorith.
The lead played out quite nicely, I got crit on Rock Blast but it only 2-hit me. A 4-hit would be needed to kill--luckily that or the in-game crit with 3 hits did not happen--but I did have to follow up my initial HP Ground with a Thunder to actually kill the anorith so I definitely got some end of lower than 50% odds to fully win the interaction in the way I did. I immediately follow up my significant advantage by deciding to impatiently boom on his chou... as he goes Gastly to claim my sacrifice. HP Grounding was better, forcing him to pivot into possibly the same sequence later or trade HP like I want, basically anything was better than immediately booming because it was a fairly easy read for him and it just completely got me.
I go into Wailmer, and I'm not 100% sure about this play either. Sitrus doesn't activate during the turn, meaning the Water Spout I go for is not so free if he attacks; my Water Spout does basically zero damage because he chooses to attack (this is a very obvious Icy Wind play if my Wailmer has it, but I don't). What is good, though, is that TBolt from Elekid can now kill the revealed-SDef Gastly, and I get a free sub on the lileep switch. I end up freezing the lileep and low into high rolling which is the only way you 2hko, which is massively fortunate and basically seals the game up; I also hp ground the chinchou and crit it LMFAO. I go Anorith on his Snubbull switch, Swords Dance as he goes Gas, and because I can Endure to avoid the 50/50 he basically loses because Snub and the unrevealed Carvanha don't do anything to Anorith.
Game 2: DPP
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4lc-934211
The negative karma from that ADV game comes back to me pretty much immediately in the form of a confusion self-hit vs lead machop. I somehow hit Wisp through confuse vs a Gligar and my Zor can get stealth rocks up, so it seems like I've stabilized; my Koffing even tanks the Lax damage to threaten Thief and steals Oran from the burned Gligar, effectively putting me up 6-5. For some reason I just let the Koffing die to Gastly (I feel like he's done his job?). My Munch loses 1v1 to a LO gastly because wisp chips me and then I get sludge bomb crit--I'm still owed two bad events if you believe in karma but this is enough to put me in a bad position because DPP just moves so fast. I go Gligar, he goes munch on Glig to threaten ice punch, and I make the move of going Snover on Munch because Bronzor does zero to it and would probably just die while doing 20% back. I yolo by going Snover in order to protect + wood hammer and get rid of this stupid munchlax, at this point my mind does say that SD snover is one of the few things that sweeps but NONE of tthe revealed mons give it a setup turn. Him going Gastly on protect and THEN clicking sucker is so crucial to just shutting me out of the game--switching is pointless vs a priority mon in doduo because there's no lategame sweep to be had and worst case for him my snover kills itself with wood hammer on the munchlax, just minimal value to be gained. He keeps working me though by going munchlax on my bronzor switch, perhaps not necessary on his end bc I think he wins anyway but it's just a really good way to seal the game. I get the munch in snover range with psy and kill him with wood hammer. I go to the only other mon that can possibly 1v3 in Dratini but he goes Machop. +1 espeed quite easily kills doduo but I have to outrage to get rid of the machop--the game is basically lost. I try going for some weird outrage roll/crit by just straight outraging--I'm pretty sure dpunch is a roll to kill here-- but he just sacs the chou and at some point I'm forced to outrage so I'm not certain it mattered (fairly sure one of doduo or chinchou is a faster scarfer along with the later-revealed scarf chop). The scarf chop Ice Punches now that I'm in range, and sweeps. pretty dire game, despite luck he just worked me here.
Game 2: BW
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5lc-934221
This is one of his weaker gens, so I was aware that winning here would put me in quite a good position for the series, leaving us with our main tiers to duke it out, me in SS and him in SM.
my goat finally won in LCPL too. Voltix king
My lead starts out phenomenally--lead Gastly vs Foo. Even with Payback, Wisp is just too nice to click. He goes ferro and I miss the Wisp that would've given me like an insane amount of momentum/chip. Not too bad though, right? I can still chip him with HP fire...
Guess we're in for another shitshow. Every sac in a GastBra matchup is just so important that the last 40-45% of ferros's hp being gone is huge, this crit gives me a crucial advantage and keeps Rocks off the field so I can use Vullaby easier.
He goes Abra, I go vull to counter it because his strongest move against me in BW is Charge Beam. I uturn on the chou into Aipom and make a great read with Fury Swipes into the Mienfoo, almost killing it. I didn't even remember going Ferro to chip the Fake out--absolutely absurd cycle that lets the Aipom in later with Fake up to clean too. The game is basically won at this point, Fake out + vull + all the other things are just too good at beating the chou and vull and scarf Drilbur is quite decent vs the +1 speed vull to revenge kill. A combination of one really lucky moment and a good close-out with a couple of tight reads.
Game 4: SS
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8lc-934226
He goes for the fences, picking my "home" tier of sorts and leaving SM for game 5, very respectable move putting the onus on me to try to win. I use... my LCPL 13 finals team that I'd been spamming along with my week 3 team in basically the only open where I got any points for playoffs.
I lead Koffing into Abra and switch Scarf Pawniard into a Fire Punch. Not exactly an inspiring start. I Knock the Timburr switch, which is some progress, but it kind of starts a timer that most of this team has into some of his mons--my counters in Pony and Koffing either semi-let in Carv and fully let in Mareanie, or jsut get Knocked and then OHKOed by a special breaker or now 2HKOed by the physical mons respectively. I have to play fast here.
I go koff on the Knock off (it doesn't have a recovery move), and go for a pretty free TBolt into the Abra switch. This time he doesn't call the Pawniard switch, and I... Brick Break him as he stays in and Fire Punches
He still has to switch out, choosing Vull as the Dig double into Mareanie is quite menacing, and I go Omanyte to set up Rocks and take the Knock. I get SR up on the U-turn and Knock the Mareanie switch-in, so now none of the Diglett rolls or chip matter--it's a clear, easy countertrap. Vullaby blows its berry juice switching in and I pony as he brave birds (no burn this turn).
This does mean that the Pony is not knocked, which is quite crucial in these games if you are trying to beat it at all--it's not like Pony counter Carv is exactly advisable-- I think me Wisping the Carv switch could be a good or bad play. Yes, it's better than Morning Sun on the Knock if I don't Flame Body burn, but the rationale for it is to let Grookey sweep because Drain punch + grass move cleans out everything but Burr. I definitely think something like Flame Charge or Flare blitz into the vull is kind of a throw, because his only way of killing the Ponyta aside from Carv is making a read that I attack and killing me back. Either way, hard Carv is a great read understanding that I can't attack. I go Grookey at the protect--absolute heartbreaker if he IBs there as I might lose my lead--and I go for a U-turn here despite what I said earlier. My thinking here is that if I drain Punch on the vull switch, Grassy Glide doesn't kill after. This means I either 1. sack pawniard and trade evio on Pony (which can let carv in again)/HP on koff (timburr claims without him minus pony, which might be forced to wisp/morning sun letting carv in) or 2. sac one of koffing, pony, or dig (see 1. for the others but as far as dig goes, special dig doesn't 100% beat anything here but it can ohko everything and the value of sub vs carv/pawniard is insane. Killing the Pawniard probably won on the spot, my play might be too noncommittal, but the overall free flame charge into Pawniard I get is really nice. This time though, Carv puts me in a really rough situation with Grassy TErrain turns (sac into Grookey leaves 1 turn left, enjoy getting protected. this might be timer brain because I just live grookey? i'm kind of a noob with this play? sac pawniard, hello) and Voltix completely calls my Grookey switch which almost threw the game. I don't understand why he went Vull instead of protecting and claiming a free kill, but maybe he thought the Grook got too much value with 5 turns of terrain up (3 after protect + switch). He goes into vull, which I want just 45% more chip on more than anything in the world to spam Grassy Glide, and reveals protect, which didn't come into play earlier but I hadn't even considered.
At this point in the endgame, Grookey doesn't autowin. Grassy Glide on the Pawniard switch doesn't let me follow up with Drain Punch because I stupidly took an insane amount of chip. I go Pony on the Vull Knock off and recover on a Brave bird (I think I at least have a chance to live), no dice on the burn either time. I try to use pawn to revenge kill, he scouts with protect and goes to his own pawn. Here's where I start really gaming.
I have to go Grookey on the free stealth rock to keep it alive. Otherwise, it dies to rocks. I get the one HP of terrain recovery. Good prediction!
I haven't revealed Drain Punch yet, but I feel in my gut that he's just gonna sucker, because if I outplay him with Glide I barely do any damage and the terrain will eventually run out. I go Diglett.
The plan is to obviously sub at least once, because Dig has only revealed Earth Power and these special Diglett sets definitely do not mandate sub, and he suckers. I got my kill.
He goes to revenge kill with Timburr, I'm at 78% HP (14 HP) and
As long as I don't get crit or 1/16 highrolled the game is over.
This didn't matter to the game at all but this was funny:
funny how this happens after I call every dpp game a coinflip lol. so many of those in this game
Really good series against a great player. At this point in the tour, I wasn't exactly confident in my SM. I know I can beat anyone, and I would've showed up to play, but I am glad I closed it out in 4 because that game 5 against one of the best SM players on the site would've been a slog.
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im a bum and never did this and its been a few months since classic now and iss asked for us to give our thoughts on the metas and so I will. TLDR overall is that all of the LC gens are good and enjoyable in their own ways, LC is alive and well with thriving and developing metagames. Thank you iss a ton for funding classic the past 2 years now, its been my favorite tour to participate in by far. Despite feeling like I missed out on an opportunity to perform to the levels I think I can, I'm proud to say I think I have improved in all the LC gens a lot now, and I will be back next year.
SWSH:
SS to me has unfortunately become one of my least enjoyable metas to actually play. This is not to say SS is a bad meta, far from it in fact, but compared to all the rest of the classic gens (except for ADV lol), I had the least amount of fun playing it. This is mainly because I think teams have become a bit stale? I cant quite put my finger on it but it feels like the creativity that you can achieve in other gens just isnt there in gen 8. Nothing really material here I just felt like complaining about it.
I did want to say that I think Grookey is still highly underrated in SS by a lot of people, I hear slander of it constantly.
This 6 has won me a lot of games and I think more people should explore grookey teams. Life Orb, Eviolite, and Swords Dance are all good options. Onix is another mon I think gets a bad rap but to me I value it more than pawn as a flying check. No more hidden power grass Vullaby and access to Dragon Dance this gen just make it something really enjoyable to use.
There has been talk about Abra being broken here, and its something I've thought as well. Despite that I think SS is just in a state that needs no action, there is nothing really overbearing despite the Abra set variety complaints.
Koffing is broken though.
SM:
Contrary to gen 8, gen 7 has become one of my favorite LC metas to play and I think it gets wayyyy too much hate. The amount of creativity you can achieve is amazing and the gameplay is good. The one "bad" thing about the tier is that sometime Z Vullaby just negates a lot of its checks and the opponent has to play on a tightrope that feels unfair at times. Despite this, I think vull is still managable a majority of the time, not to mention the defensive and glue value it brings to teams. I think that more people should give SM a fair shot, the way you can build and manuever teams in this gen is unique to other LC formats and is something that takes a bit to get used to but is worth the payoff.
As for a few thoughts on the tier itself, I think Snivy is vastly underrated by people. Scarf is possibly the scariest end game win con in the tier, just one boost negating a lot of typical resists. I think that Vullaby being forced to come in and having its Berry Juice popped is not a bad thing when playing, but just a way to build towards winning the game by letting another mon abuse vull being low or just setting up a snivy sweep later on. Additionally, having a scarfer faster than Rufflet is something i really value, meaning that you can knock or Glare Rufflet or even just kill it if it comes in after a leaf storm boost Obviously Foongus is the big roadblock to this, but I dont think it should make Snivy see as little usage as it does. Teams can be built to lure Snivy, or rely on trapping it with Diglett if it gets knocked, or just abuse a scarf Knock Off or Glare and let something else take take the mainstage in the match up. This is all without mentioning Eviolite/Berry Juice/Z Snivy which turns its checks upsides down and lets you operate as a breaker rather than a sweeper, and if it has the right Hidden Power it can just steal games.
Also shoutout to Munchlax for this being its second best gen, I really love it here.
ORAS:
ORAS cup ended up being the one where I went the furthest, making it to semifinals, despite it being my least experienced gen. If the variety in SM is something I enjoy, ORAS might have something to say about matching that. The sheer number of viable teams, sets, playstyles that I have seen in gen 6 is astonishing, I think it very clearly has the most amount of stuff running around. Porygon, Fletch, Webs, Sun, ALL FORMS OF TRAPPING (Goth Dig Pinch Scarf Pawn), Thunder Wave and paralysis being broken, Berry Juice. Compared to all the other LC gens, theres just so much here, only is missing Z moves. This makes the tier overwhelming sometimes, and I understand the hate it can get. Despite that, I think there is absolutely a good metagame here. Three weeks into ORASPL and I haven't lost my mind yet, there a lot of room the explore the meta.
My two hot takes of the tier is that we should ban Gothita and Webs. I know people call Webs bad, but I think they are degenerate and force undue pressure on teams in a format with already so much to handle. Even fletchling, the mon that ignores webs and has priority acro, is not safe into webs, as the teams are of course designed to beat Fletch if it shows up. I just do not like having webs around, I think they reduce the quality of the games played and put too much pressure on the teambuilder when it feels like there's already a lot to cover.
Goth I feel less strongly about, but the trapping in ORAS is already insane and I think Goth being gone would improve the tier. Its just an unpleasant mon to have around that is rightfully banned in Gens 7 and 8 (AND SHOULD BE IN 9 TOO). The dynamics of the gameplay when facing goth is so unfun when you have your fighting check in the back, and I want it gone!
Shoutout to Ponyta for this being its best generation, Wisp is broken as fuck.
BW:
Another metagame I really came to like in the past year, BW offers another unique experience with the gen 5 mechanics and the introduction of the LC staples in Mienfoo Vullaby Timburr and the bunch, and of course Eviolite. Gen 5 has a fun balance of defensive and offensive gameplay, where sometimes you can really long drawn out Sand games or you can get Omanyte getting a free turn and sweeping everything if you arent careful. I had a good time practicing this tier, any meta with Natu is great to me. Knock Off being prebuff makes things feel really nice and its a mechanic I kinda wish stayed around.
My hottest take in BW is that Frillish is a A tier mon or higher, I think that it performs its job as a fighting check much more consistently than Gastly does as well as being able to help check Omanyte. Taunt + Wisp alongside Recover is also really strong being able to cripple Porygons and set up for something else. On Porygon I do think its worse than others, it feels like a pokemon asking for something to go wrong and gets worn down quickly. Knock or Wisp from Gastly, hazards, Weather chip, it all racks on Porygon and just one crit when the odds are still 1/16 feels scary to me.
I did want to shout out this team I made with the help of Kaboom for Round 1 of Classic Playoffs, featuring Never Melt Ice Snover, it was an idea I felt really proud of (Even though he also thought of it in the past). Basic idea is that you cleanly 2hko 13 Speed Mienfoo, and can 2hko Ferro and Porygon after rocks or with minor chip. Was a really fun team that I'm glad worked.
For tiering I know some want Diglett or Omanyte banned, including the person I respect most on the tier, but for me I dont think I would touch the format. I would want more games before I'm ready to fully commit to that, but as I am right now I think the tier is really good and that nothing is too strong, even Oma has reasonable counterplay in my eyes, but I leave the door open to changing my views at a later date.
DPP:
The format I've played the most of, at the time of classic I had been neck deep in DPP for over 2 years. Of all the LC gens this is the one I put the most time and effort into building and try to get good at, to the point to where I'm honestly a bit burnt out from it now. I think DPP is in a great spot currently, where its still constantly developing but still has the consistency of its staple pokemon, but I've enjoyed brancing out into other gens and taking a breather on this one.
Regarding the meta itself, Scarf Wailmer to me is the defining pokemon of the tier, after Munchlax. I think its the most consistent and most dangerous win con in the entire format, with its only long term check being croagunk having its own plethora of issues. Scarf Water Spout is just deveasting to switch into, basically ensuring whatever switches in will have its Oran popped especially if rocks are up, and then Wail can just leave the field and come back later to force another mon to take Spout or Surf etc.
The core of Bronzor, Chinchou, Gastly, Munchlax, and of course Scarf Wail is to me the best style in the tier. The lead almost doesnt matter, it can be just about anything. I think that combination of pokemon facilitates a Wailmer end game really well.
Wails dominance in its scarf set opens up how good its Oran or other item sets are, as we have seen it do really well there too, just a defining mon of dpp at this point.
A few rapid fire points on the tier that I don't want to spend a lot of time on.
Duskull is underrated and should be used more, people need to calc out better spreads though.
Bronzor is a top 5 mon
Chinchou is not!
Baton pass is probably broken as fuck lol.
Rain is for the most part really bad
Porygon is a top lead in the tier i think it should be used more
Same applies to Ponyta! Life orb or oran sets both are good, its the mon I feel safest about using when I load into Machop
Cranidos is not broken stop saying it is
Machop is probably broken, its certainly lame af to have around sometimes. Wouldn't push for a ban but I wouldnt hate to see No Guard gone (not Machop itself)
Houndour is unviable.
Shout out to Munchlax again for being my favorite mon in a really good tier.
ADV:
Oh boy, to end it on ADV. I have done plenty of hating on the tier in the past, but its in a fine state right now. I do think that it is unpleasant to play overall, as I've soured on the interactions that sitrus berry produces, but with the Diglett and Abra bans the tier is at least playable. I wont say much on it other than I think Onix and Houndour are both awesome and more people should use them.
I built this for Classic Round 2, and was pretty pleased with it, featuring both Onix and Houndour. I want to highlight the Elekid set that I brought and think I invented but who knows with Shing around.
Elekid @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 12 Atk / 240 SpA / 236 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Substitute
Petaya Elekid is already probably the best win con in the tier, threatening OHKOs on a ton of things when at +1, and HP Ground Elekid is a set that already sees use, but I had never seen anyone else combine them. This lets you get the benefits of both the game winning potential of Petaya and coverage to threaten Electric types that Hp Ground gives you. Voltorb and Elekid already see a ton of mirrors when trying to check each other, this set being able to chunk them and retain the wincon of the pinch berry is really cool to me. Only downside is losing out on a boosted hp grass vs Chinchou, but Ground still threatens reasonably well.
If ADV didn't change at all moving forward I think the tier would be fine. Boring and unpleasent to play mostly yes, but still just fine. I do that however that looking into a Sitrus ban and then a Porygon unban would be good for the tier (Can explore other unbans if needed). I've talked about it a lot in the ADV server in the past so I won't rehash it here but I think a lot of the negatives of ADV that we have seen stem from Sitrus being broken.
Just a final shoutout to all of my friends and those who helped me along the way. I would't have stuck around or learned as much as I have without you all the past few years.
SWSH:
SS to me has unfortunately become one of my least enjoyable metas to actually play. This is not to say SS is a bad meta, far from it in fact, but compared to all the rest of the classic gens (except for ADV lol), I had the least amount of fun playing it. This is mainly because I think teams have become a bit stale? I cant quite put my finger on it but it feels like the creativity that you can achieve in other gens just isnt there in gen 8. Nothing really material here I just felt like complaining about it.
I did want to say that I think Grookey is still highly underrated in SS by a lot of people, I hear slander of it constantly.
This 6 has won me a lot of games and I think more people should explore grookey teams. Life Orb, Eviolite, and Swords Dance are all good options. Onix is another mon I think gets a bad rap but to me I value it more than pawn as a flying check. No more hidden power grass Vullaby and access to Dragon Dance this gen just make it something really enjoyable to use.
There has been talk about Abra being broken here, and its something I've thought as well. Despite that I think SS is just in a state that needs no action, there is nothing really overbearing despite the Abra set variety complaints.
Koffing is broken though.
SM:
Contrary to gen 8, gen 7 has become one of my favorite LC metas to play and I think it gets wayyyy too much hate. The amount of creativity you can achieve is amazing and the gameplay is good. The one "bad" thing about the tier is that sometime Z Vullaby just negates a lot of its checks and the opponent has to play on a tightrope that feels unfair at times. Despite this, I think vull is still managable a majority of the time, not to mention the defensive and glue value it brings to teams. I think that more people should give SM a fair shot, the way you can build and manuever teams in this gen is unique to other LC formats and is something that takes a bit to get used to but is worth the payoff.
As for a few thoughts on the tier itself, I think Snivy is vastly underrated by people. Scarf is possibly the scariest end game win con in the tier, just one boost negating a lot of typical resists. I think that Vullaby being forced to come in and having its Berry Juice popped is not a bad thing when playing, but just a way to build towards winning the game by letting another mon abuse vull being low or just setting up a snivy sweep later on. Additionally, having a scarfer faster than Rufflet is something i really value, meaning that you can knock or Glare Rufflet or even just kill it if it comes in after a leaf storm boost Obviously Foongus is the big roadblock to this, but I dont think it should make Snivy see as little usage as it does. Teams can be built to lure Snivy, or rely on trapping it with Diglett if it gets knocked, or just abuse a scarf Knock Off or Glare and let something else take take the mainstage in the match up. This is all without mentioning Eviolite/Berry Juice/Z Snivy which turns its checks upsides down and lets you operate as a breaker rather than a sweeper, and if it has the right Hidden Power it can just steal games.
Also shoutout to Munchlax for this being its second best gen, I really love it here.
ORAS:
ORAS cup ended up being the one where I went the furthest, making it to semifinals, despite it being my least experienced gen. If the variety in SM is something I enjoy, ORAS might have something to say about matching that. The sheer number of viable teams, sets, playstyles that I have seen in gen 6 is astonishing, I think it very clearly has the most amount of stuff running around. Porygon, Fletch, Webs, Sun, ALL FORMS OF TRAPPING (Goth Dig Pinch Scarf Pawn), Thunder Wave and paralysis being broken, Berry Juice. Compared to all the other LC gens, theres just so much here, only is missing Z moves. This makes the tier overwhelming sometimes, and I understand the hate it can get. Despite that, I think there is absolutely a good metagame here. Three weeks into ORASPL and I haven't lost my mind yet, there a lot of room the explore the meta.
My two hot takes of the tier is that we should ban Gothita and Webs. I know people call Webs bad, but I think they are degenerate and force undue pressure on teams in a format with already so much to handle. Even fletchling, the mon that ignores webs and has priority acro, is not safe into webs, as the teams are of course designed to beat Fletch if it shows up. I just do not like having webs around, I think they reduce the quality of the games played and put too much pressure on the teambuilder when it feels like there's already a lot to cover.
Goth I feel less strongly about, but the trapping in ORAS is already insane and I think Goth being gone would improve the tier. Its just an unpleasant mon to have around that is rightfully banned in Gens 7 and 8 (AND SHOULD BE IN 9 TOO). The dynamics of the gameplay when facing goth is so unfun when you have your fighting check in the back, and I want it gone!
Shoutout to Ponyta for this being its best generation, Wisp is broken as fuck.
BW:
Another metagame I really came to like in the past year, BW offers another unique experience with the gen 5 mechanics and the introduction of the LC staples in Mienfoo Vullaby Timburr and the bunch, and of course Eviolite. Gen 5 has a fun balance of defensive and offensive gameplay, where sometimes you can really long drawn out Sand games or you can get Omanyte getting a free turn and sweeping everything if you arent careful. I had a good time practicing this tier, any meta with Natu is great to me. Knock Off being prebuff makes things feel really nice and its a mechanic I kinda wish stayed around.
My hottest take in BW is that Frillish is a A tier mon or higher, I think that it performs its job as a fighting check much more consistently than Gastly does as well as being able to help check Omanyte. Taunt + Wisp alongside Recover is also really strong being able to cripple Porygons and set up for something else. On Porygon I do think its worse than others, it feels like a pokemon asking for something to go wrong and gets worn down quickly. Knock or Wisp from Gastly, hazards, Weather chip, it all racks on Porygon and just one crit when the odds are still 1/16 feels scary to me.
I did want to shout out this team I made with the help of Kaboom for Round 1 of Classic Playoffs, featuring Never Melt Ice Snover, it was an idea I felt really proud of (Even though he also thought of it in the past). Basic idea is that you cleanly 2hko 13 Speed Mienfoo, and can 2hko Ferro and Porygon after rocks or with minor chip. Was a really fun team that I'm glad worked.
For tiering I know some want Diglett or Omanyte banned, including the person I respect most on the tier, but for me I dont think I would touch the format. I would want more games before I'm ready to fully commit to that, but as I am right now I think the tier is really good and that nothing is too strong, even Oma has reasonable counterplay in my eyes, but I leave the door open to changing my views at a later date.
DPP:
The format I've played the most of, at the time of classic I had been neck deep in DPP for over 2 years. Of all the LC gens this is the one I put the most time and effort into building and try to get good at, to the point to where I'm honestly a bit burnt out from it now. I think DPP is in a great spot currently, where its still constantly developing but still has the consistency of its staple pokemon, but I've enjoyed brancing out into other gens and taking a breather on this one.
Regarding the meta itself, Scarf Wailmer to me is the defining pokemon of the tier, after Munchlax. I think its the most consistent and most dangerous win con in the entire format, with its only long term check being croagunk having its own plethora of issues. Scarf Water Spout is just deveasting to switch into, basically ensuring whatever switches in will have its Oran popped especially if rocks are up, and then Wail can just leave the field and come back later to force another mon to take Spout or Surf etc.
The core of Bronzor, Chinchou, Gastly, Munchlax, and of course Scarf Wail is to me the best style in the tier. The lead almost doesnt matter, it can be just about anything. I think that combination of pokemon facilitates a Wailmer end game really well.
Wails dominance in its scarf set opens up how good its Oran or other item sets are, as we have seen it do really well there too, just a defining mon of dpp at this point.
A few rapid fire points on the tier that I don't want to spend a lot of time on.
Duskull is underrated and should be used more, people need to calc out better spreads though.
Bronzor is a top 5 mon
Chinchou is not!
Baton pass is probably broken as fuck lol.
Rain is for the most part really bad
Porygon is a top lead in the tier i think it should be used more
Same applies to Ponyta! Life orb or oran sets both are good, its the mon I feel safest about using when I load into Machop
Cranidos is not broken stop saying it is
Machop is probably broken, its certainly lame af to have around sometimes. Wouldn't push for a ban but I wouldnt hate to see No Guard gone (not Machop itself)
Houndour is unviable.
Shout out to Munchlax again for being my favorite mon in a really good tier.
ADV:
Oh boy, to end it on ADV. I have done plenty of hating on the tier in the past, but its in a fine state right now. I do think that it is unpleasant to play overall, as I've soured on the interactions that sitrus berry produces, but with the Diglett and Abra bans the tier is at least playable. I wont say much on it other than I think Onix and Houndour are both awesome and more people should use them.
I built this for Classic Round 2, and was pretty pleased with it, featuring both Onix and Houndour. I want to highlight the Elekid set that I brought and think I invented but who knows with Shing around.
Elekid @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 12 Atk / 240 SpA / 236 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Substitute
Petaya Elekid is already probably the best win con in the tier, threatening OHKOs on a ton of things when at +1, and HP Ground Elekid is a set that already sees use, but I had never seen anyone else combine them. This lets you get the benefits of both the game winning potential of Petaya and coverage to threaten Electric types that Hp Ground gives you. Voltorb and Elekid already see a ton of mirrors when trying to check each other, this set being able to chunk them and retain the wincon of the pinch berry is really cool to me. Only downside is losing out on a boosted hp grass vs Chinchou, but Ground still threatens reasonably well.
If ADV didn't change at all moving forward I think the tier would be fine. Boring and unpleasent to play mostly yes, but still just fine. I do that however that looking into a Sitrus ban and then a Porygon unban would be good for the tier (Can explore other unbans if needed). I've talked about it a lot in the ADV server in the past so I won't rehash it here but I think a lot of the negatives of ADV that we have seen stem from Sitrus being broken.
Just a final shoutout to all of my friends and those who helped me along the way. I would't have stuck around or learned as much as I have without you all the past few years.
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Not sure this is the perfect thread to talk about my LC Classic run from the Cup, and my involvement in the playoffs, but it'd be a nice excuse to post builds and talk about some of the games that I cared about. Anyway, the LC Classic this year for me was painfully more stressful, and that's how it should be when people are fighting for money. But I've never worked my ass off to develop ADV LC, especially how annoying Abra was and made me feel like I was crashing out. Along with playing the greedy invitational and the ADV LC tour I hosted, this has definitely been where I pushed myself hardest, with good and bad outcomes that affected me irl and smogon use.
I'll skip DPP, SM, and ORAS as I lost way too early there, though I am thankful for everyone who gave me teams.
BW and SS are the tiers I'd enjoy the most, as I've personal enjoyment of longer, drawn-out games, as it reminds me a bit of the main tiers. As for drawn games... I've no idea how I won this SS game specifically like, goddamn, that lasted 104 turns, and idt that's normal at all lol. Then I lost to Huargensy, which proceeded to win the whole SS LC Cup, so I accept the loss. In BW, I enjoyed the sets, but unfortunately I think I struggled to win in r4 because of limited knowledge and intuition to win oldgen tiers. With that said, I had fun, and I'd give a huge shoutout to the LCCL team server, specifically Regggy and Rahul for the builds and quick help, and then Fille and Kaboom for the BW part. Not sure if I can find something innovative in SS, but I'd want to invest BW LC in the future whenever the time and motivation come to the part :)
Now for the ADV LC Cup... I'll keep this one as far from irl-related as possible before starting. I spent more time on this cup helping other people than on caring too much about my run. Obviously, as I got into playoffs, I do care a good amount to try it again, and earning money would be nice for the effort I've put in. It's just much more satisfying to help others, as it made me smile, even if I felt the stress building up each week. My preparation was essentially trying to be 3-4 steps ahead and build in the most solvable way possible, but also having a strong flowchart so most people I gave it to could pivot without too much technicality, as at that point I wanted to improve my building in a way that other players could come and pivot it as a self-goal. It was hilariously funny when I saw my own team that was used back in the previous ADV LC Cup, as I posted so many of them in public(and Reggg was not having it when he tried to collect every one of them lmao) when it came to preparing for it. For my preparation for my opponent, I definitely took scouting on the replays and figuring out who gave my opponent the teams, or if they repeat the teams from older replays. With all that + LCCL happening, I think I built like 5-10 teams each week, not counting on "variations". Which means I'll not fucking release all of my teams I gave to and categories it on each round, like there were like 6+ ppl with the same or some with specific teams versus the opponent, like Feen vs Heyups R3, and I honestly lost count at this point. But I'll go and post the teams I played vs my opponent, and maybe make some comments on it.
R2 vs Alder ST
Since this was an extension, we also played against each other for LCCL in the same week, so I'd not be surprised if Alder didn't take this one too seriously to avoid me making extreme preparations vs him.
R3 vs Lighthouses
R4 vs Cielau
This was some of the most intense sets I've played in my whole ADV LC career. I've no idea how I even won in G4 except for a lack of game knowledge from Cielau as the main explanation. With that said, Cielau was someone that not only far in the bracket, but also destroyed Shreyashhy, so I was super locked in to prepare against them. I've no idea who built for Cielau or if they built for themself, but holy moly, they had some mad teams there, goddamn. I'll say the teams from me were most likely too outta pocket due to motivation getting burned out, esp on G3 where I didn't have Explosion on Gastly and tried to play as possible to avoid losing. But I'm pretty happy how I won the last game even if I got a bit bailed out due to Cielau playing the tier a few times. Great opponent and massive respect to them as a player.
R5 vs Fernanch
I don't have the Rapid Spin Staryu team I used on G1, which makes sense because I specifically built these two to ct your repeats lmao. Honestly, I was a little paranoid since you were Zcarlett's team partner in LCCL while she was mine at ADVPL at the same time, so I assumed she snitched you the builds, and you got building help or used Evaki/Shrey's builds, so I went a bit tryhard with some mad fishing. I'll say that I wished you didn't bring the same teams because you got me lowkey stressed by these outside factors I created for myself.
R6 vs Baoba.....
My mentality was so down bad in this set. One more round to get the guaranteed money, a week and a half for school exams, and the fact that Baoba was in Evaki + Shrey's team, I was tweaking with this bullshit. I had the assumption that Evaki was gonna build at least one team and Baoba was gonna mix up with his reuse a little bit, so I came prepared but tried to have some fun along with it. I'm gonna be real tho, this set was extremely avoidable to lose, especially in G3 where I literally have the team scouted in my builder and I just didn't utilize it, or I made some errors on assumptions. Either way, a very avoidable loss, and I was pretty upset here considering I was very aware of him as a player in past rounds. Super annoying, but that was a lesson I took to my heart to say it at least.
I'm pretty sure if I won this cup, I'd have been able to qualify just barely, and losing here secured the tiebreaker for Voltix vs Kingler. But that's just how things go sometimes. But to end this, I'll mention how many people I supported from R1, and mention new people in the next round who asked me for help in the ADV LC Cup series.
R1: Reggg, Tycarter(not sorry Eric), Fille, Leni
R2: Coconut, Feen, Gali, Zcarlett(or was it in r3), mielke, Noname, Laroxyl
R3: Justfranco(Right after my L vs him in ORAS)
R4: Nineveh
R6: One Last Kiss
I mentioned these people because I just wanna give a fun thank you for asking me to build, especially if there was any feedback or you did the scout for me. Most of the reasons why I supported them were because many of them were on the same team server from different team tours, friends, or I either gave it to them or they were in DMs and asked me personally. As much as I tell myself how stressed I am, I get a big smile whenever people ask me for help, especially when every one of them was nice to me. Thank you once again to everyone I mentioned above.
Before I stop, though, I'll tell you a lil stupidly funny one about what happened in R6 where Laroxyl and Justfranco fought against each other. Some context on how I met Justfranco in the R3 period: after losing to him, I tend to give ADV LC teams to people, especially if they are nice to talk to and are motivated to get far. But I left the BIGS server sometime and accidentally closed the chatbox, so it ended up that I had no way to see the chatbox atm. So when the R6 was up, I informed Laroxyl that I gave him some teams a long time ago, and since I made some mad changes on the same team I gave to them, they technically had a different team due to a different moveset. This was where I was grimy af, as I admit, because you can technically open the message box to someone you chatted with, but only if you can find the user and click on their profile. Justfranco did not share the servers I had, so I actually went on a hunting spree to figure out Smogon servers he was in, eventually found in RUcord, and opened the msg chat to see the build and give it to Laroxyl. You know what's funnier? Like 10 minutes later, I got a friend request from Justfranco, and my god, the fuck was that timing LMFAOOOOOO
Well, it seems that Justfranco also wanted some teams, so I did tell him I helped Laroxyl, and well, it's to be expected when he responds with "x"
I told Laroxyl pretty much that Justfranco knows I am building for Laroxyl at the same time and such. Unfortunately, this was not over, as Justfranco did not schedule, and Laro was gonna take the act on Friday if not, which is reasonable af. The thing both of them were thinking was to do an RFN-ish, as they were playing pretty much after this, and I was literally the messenger between these two :sob:
I'm only saying this because this was hilariously goofy that happened, and lowkey both of you two got me a lil tight since this also happened at midnight. Justfranco with scheduling so late, and Laroxyl asking for solid teams right away, so I couldn't even use my time to build new good teams for him, so it became reused teams lmao. It was just absurdly funny to see this unfold in these few hours LOL
Besides that, I accomplished my goal to see Laroxyl get in the playoffs, happy to see One Last Kiss and Justfranco get top 4, and had overall a lot of fun conversations with many new people. The cool part with LC Classic Cups is to meet old and new people, and the conversations always make it worth it for me haha! It helps with the rep I have in this tier as well, and I know I'm privileged with this strength. Alright, so since this post is getting pretty long, I got permission from Hacker to double-post so my involvement in Classic Playoffs will be in the next post :)
I'll skip DPP, SM, and ORAS as I lost way too early there, though I am thankful for everyone who gave me teams.
BW and SS are the tiers I'd enjoy the most, as I've personal enjoyment of longer, drawn-out games, as it reminds me a bit of the main tiers. As for drawn games... I've no idea how I won this SS game specifically like, goddamn, that lasted 104 turns, and idt that's normal at all lol. Then I lost to Huargensy, which proceeded to win the whole SS LC Cup, so I accept the loss. In BW, I enjoyed the sets, but unfortunately I think I struggled to win in r4 because of limited knowledge and intuition to win oldgen tiers. With that said, I had fun, and I'd give a huge shoutout to the LCCL team server, specifically Regggy and Rahul for the builds and quick help, and then Fille and Kaboom for the BW part. Not sure if I can find something innovative in SS, but I'd want to invest BW LC in the future whenever the time and motivation come to the part :)
Now for the ADV LC Cup... I'll keep this one as far from irl-related as possible before starting. I spent more time on this cup helping other people than on caring too much about my run. Obviously, as I got into playoffs, I do care a good amount to try it again, and earning money would be nice for the effort I've put in. It's just much more satisfying to help others, as it made me smile, even if I felt the stress building up each week. My preparation was essentially trying to be 3-4 steps ahead and build in the most solvable way possible, but also having a strong flowchart so most people I gave it to could pivot without too much technicality, as at that point I wanted to improve my building in a way that other players could come and pivot it as a self-goal. It was hilariously funny when I saw my own team that was used back in the previous ADV LC Cup, as I posted so many of them in public(and Reggg was not having it when he tried to collect every one of them lmao) when it came to preparing for it. For my preparation for my opponent, I definitely took scouting on the replays and figuring out who gave my opponent the teams, or if they repeat the teams from older replays. With all that + LCCL happening, I think I built like 5-10 teams each week, not counting on "variations". Which means I'll not fucking release all of my teams I gave to and categories it on each round, like there were like 6+ ppl with the same or some with specific teams versus the opponent, like Feen vs Heyups R3, and I honestly lost count at this point. But I'll go and post the teams I played vs my opponent, and maybe make some comments on it.
R2 vs Alder ST
Since this was an extension, we also played against each other for LCCL in the same week, so I'd not be surprised if Alder didn't take this one too seriously to avoid me making extreme preparations vs him.
R3 vs Lighthouses
R4 vs Cielau
R5 vs Fernanch
I don't have the Rapid Spin Staryu team I used on G1, which makes sense because I specifically built these two to ct your repeats lmao. Honestly, I was a little paranoid since you were Zcarlett's team partner in LCCL while she was mine at ADVPL at the same time, so I assumed she snitched you the builds, and you got building help or used Evaki/Shrey's builds, so I went a bit tryhard with some mad fishing. I'll say that I wished you didn't bring the same teams because you got me lowkey stressed by these outside factors I created for myself.
R6 vs Baoba.....
My mentality was so down bad in this set. One more round to get the guaranteed money, a week and a half for school exams, and the fact that Baoba was in Evaki + Shrey's team, I was tweaking with this bullshit. I had the assumption that Evaki was gonna build at least one team and Baoba was gonna mix up with his reuse a little bit, so I came prepared but tried to have some fun along with it. I'm gonna be real tho, this set was extremely avoidable to lose, especially in G3 where I literally have the team scouted in my builder and I just didn't utilize it, or I made some errors on assumptions. Either way, a very avoidable loss, and I was pretty upset here considering I was very aware of him as a player in past rounds. Super annoying, but that was a lesson I took to my heart to say it at least.
I'm pretty sure if I won this cup, I'd have been able to qualify just barely, and losing here secured the tiebreaker for Voltix vs Kingler. But that's just how things go sometimes. But to end this, I'll mention how many people I supported from R1, and mention new people in the next round who asked me for help in the ADV LC Cup series.
R1: Reggg, Tycarter(not sorry Eric), Fille, Leni
R2: Coconut, Feen, Gali, Zcarlett(or was it in r3), mielke, Noname, Laroxyl
R3: Justfranco(Right after my L vs him in ORAS)
R4: Nineveh
R6: One Last Kiss
I mentioned these people because I just wanna give a fun thank you for asking me to build, especially if there was any feedback or you did the scout for me. Most of the reasons why I supported them were because many of them were on the same team server from different team tours, friends, or I either gave it to them or they were in DMs and asked me personally. As much as I tell myself how stressed I am, I get a big smile whenever people ask me for help, especially when every one of them was nice to me. Thank you once again to everyone I mentioned above.
Before I stop, though, I'll tell you a lil stupidly funny one about what happened in R6 where Laroxyl and Justfranco fought against each other. Some context on how I met Justfranco in the R3 period: after losing to him, I tend to give ADV LC teams to people, especially if they are nice to talk to and are motivated to get far. But I left the BIGS server sometime and accidentally closed the chatbox, so it ended up that I had no way to see the chatbox atm. So when the R6 was up, I informed Laroxyl that I gave him some teams a long time ago, and since I made some mad changes on the same team I gave to them, they technically had a different team due to a different moveset. This was where I was grimy af, as I admit, because you can technically open the message box to someone you chatted with, but only if you can find the user and click on their profile. Justfranco did not share the servers I had, so I actually went on a hunting spree to figure out Smogon servers he was in, eventually found in RUcord, and opened the msg chat to see the build and give it to Laroxyl. You know what's funnier? Like 10 minutes later, I got a friend request from Justfranco, and my god, the fuck was that timing LMFAOOOOOO
Well, it seems that Justfranco also wanted some teams, so I did tell him I helped Laroxyl, and well, it's to be expected when he responds with "x"
I told Laroxyl pretty much that Justfranco knows I am building for Laroxyl at the same time and such. Unfortunately, this was not over, as Justfranco did not schedule, and Laro was gonna take the act on Friday if not, which is reasonable af. The thing both of them were thinking was to do an RFN-ish, as they were playing pretty much after this, and I was literally the messenger between these two :sob:
I'm only saying this because this was hilariously goofy that happened, and lowkey both of you two got me a lil tight since this also happened at midnight. Justfranco with scheduling so late, and Laroxyl asking for solid teams right away, so I couldn't even use my time to build new good teams for him, so it became reused teams lmao. It was just absurdly funny to see this unfold in these few hours LOL
Besides that, I accomplished my goal to see Laroxyl get in the playoffs, happy to see One Last Kiss and Justfranco get top 4, and had overall a lot of fun conversations with many new people. The cool part with LC Classic Cups is to meet old and new people, and the conversations always make it worth it for me haha! It helps with the rep I have in this tier as well, and I know I'm privileged with this strength. Alright, so since this post is getting pretty long, I got permission from Hacker to double-post so my involvement in Classic Playoffs will be in the next post :)
Attachments
Before the playoffs, I was involved in the ADV department for Kingler for the tiebreaker vs Voltix. Me and Kingler has already encountered each other in NFE, where he used my team to win an NFE SSNL when I helped other teams in NFEPL. So I've already gotten an understanding of how Kingler works, so for this set I gave him Corkscrew's team vs Raichy at Greedy's invitational, with my adjustments to fit in the post-abra meta. Since it belongs to Corck, I won't post the team, and it's up to him if he ever wants to release it to the public. As for the match, I think it's just that Kingler gets a bit too carried away with clicking so fast and being reactive, but I'm happy he still won that regardless.
Now for the playoffs, I'll categorize the players I was involved in supporting for each round.
Top 16
Kingler(W) vs Cielau and Hybone(W) vs Sammy
Idr exactly know how I prepped here, but I knew Kingler prefers hard-hitting and straightforward offense, so I brought these along with some techs like Sub Staryu, Adamant Snubbull, and Endure Anorith to take advantage of the spikes. I actually like this team even nowadays, although If I would change it to make Elekid set max SpAtk, as there are some notable rolls, such as vs Trapinch, for example. Either way, he won it, although that game may have gone cleaner. But it is what it is.
Hybone also asked me earlier than Sammy, so that was one of these "You're too slow" moments unfortunately. Hybone originally had a team he was planning to use, but eventually decided to use the team I gave to him since he trusts me and liked the team, I guess. For him vs Sammy in ADV was pretty much a one-sided matchup as he's better vs Sammy in every aspect in that tier. I'm not sure even if I helped Sammy would have helped vs Hybone due to Hybone's nasty pivoting and positioning that requires experience to play around.
Reggg and Laroxyl were the players I previously helped, so I was adamant about rejecting both of them in ADV pretty hard.
TheFranklin(W) vs JustFranco
TheFranklin contacted me earlier than JustFranco, and I've a strong bias toward him due to playing SS NFE with strong fundamentals as I think he's one of the strongest pkmn players in terms of skills, and I helped him before in the previous LC Classic, sorry JustFranco. Now for the prep, I didn't really change much besides Exeggcute > Treecko from ADVPL semifinals vs Rineko. Now what I was adamant about was him doing the scouts and preparation, and basically gave him all the info on teams JustFranco could've gotten aka Gawain and Souji/Akumu builds from ADVPL. So JustFranco was hella screwed from the ADV LC aspect either way, as the builds were something Franklin had on the tabs.
Top 8
Kingler(W) vs Hybone
Prioritized with Kingler and rejected Hybone immediately. As for the team, it was just a reuse from me vs Shrey at ADVPL. In this week, I was pretty occupied, and Kingler just wanted to bring something brute force, which meant this was an obvious pick. I will say that Kingler got bailed again, especially not calcing, kinda throwing mons away. Was a bit annoyed by that, but whatever; I was not in the mood to be mad at it lmao.
Reggg(W) vs Anakaios
Reggg mainly built his team with some feedback from me, so I'm not posting the team. I'll say it went as expected, but I also lowkey feel bad for kinda cockblocking Anakaios from winning ADV since I've been lowkey prepping vs him so much as he faces players I support for LMAO.
I did not give Michaelder that team I used vs Alder at LCCL semifinals tf... Someone must have leaked it, and I would believe it's Eric. As for the MU, I mean that team he used was designed for the Abra meta, and it could have a chance to win, but the MU looked way too tricky where Anorith can kinda harass on Cacnea and Koffing rip. It is what it is.
TheFranklin(L) vs Raichy
This team was probably a bit too technical for Franklin to use. Even despite turn 1, I think there was a possibility on T18 if he switched to Houndour, as I assume he didn't expect Houndour to die like that. Either way, this was a very rushed team, and I took more caution for the next round.
Top 4
Kingler(W) vs Raichy
Now this is one of my most favourite teams ever. Ponyta lead is Offensive, but the twist is the Double Kick + HP Grass. Double Kick lets it bypass Flash Fire weakness, while hitting Lileep, Magnemite, and Snubbull, breaking Sub. Everything else is a normal FWG balance, with Oddish being 12 in speed to speed creep 11 Speed Exeggcute lol. This is a super odd Sun team due to the team synergy not being standard, and very anti-meta team. I knew Raichy, or well Ecat had some out-of-meta builds, so I wanted to bring something that responded the same vs them, but also find some wallbreakers that bypass their synergy to catch them off guard. Very happy with this build and huge thanks to Kingler for winning this raw ass team.
MichaelderBeste2(W) vs anankaios
At this point, I've actually just helped people against Anankaios on ADV and prevented him from getting a win on this tier, and I'm such a dick for that. For this team, this is an old team I don't even remember using until Michaelder pointed out it was for vs MZ at LCCL, but Snubbull over Abra. Since Doduo + Onix is such a baller combo, I accepted it pretty quickly, and I ended up liking the team a ton. It's not the most optimal team to cover matchups, but it has its insane wallbreaker that's not normal to see in this tier, so it's a cool af team that Iand Reggg like a lot. Also, yes HB Bug Elekid is mandatory, or else endgame Exeggcute is a pain in the ass lol. As for the match, uh goddamn Anankaios got kicked super hard yikes, but a big W for Doduo + Onix combo team.
Finals
Kingler(W) vs MichaelderBeste2
Kingler wanted another rain team, but a bit more optimized and less gimmicky than the CB Wailmer lead. At first I was hesitant with the amount of offense he liked to bring, but eventually I went through a team I ended up liking a TON. This isn't like straightforward offense, but more so a bit of balance with the goal of getting rid of the water mons as much as possible. Snubbull was brought there for the lead MU, but it also invited in Lileep, Koffing, and Duskull, which Magnemite and, to some degree, Wailmer could take advantage of. And Magnemite is an innovative set I want to talk about quickly.
Magnemite @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic
It's a fast and bulkier set in trade for the power, which gives it the capability to sub behind Lileep without its sub being broken, doesn't give a fuck about Gastly sets bar HP Ground like on most mons mentioned. Like, I'll admit one of the reasons why you have HP Ground on so many mons besides on Chinchou, and 20 Electrics, is because mons like Magnemite have that insane typing that can be difficult to break in. It's kinda like treating Snover with HP Fire, Ferroseed with HP Fire, etc type shit. Everything else is pretty normal, but I'll mention that Gastly used to have Rain Dance over Thief, but I rejected that to give it more favour vs Chinchou and thief mindgames.
As for how the match went, I think Kingler did accordingly until the endgame, with Bagon potentially sweeping. But that is my fault for informing him that Horsea Ice Beam OHKO's Bagon, as Careful Bagon exists, and I didn't inform him that Snubbull also destroys Bagon as well. I think the MU could have been close, but those early turns where Michaelder got vibe checked and got off Anorith so early sealed the game IMO.
As you can see, I've been incredibly involved in ADV LC tours more than you think. And I know I'm a pain in the ass, so I can only say sorry for that. But otherwise, while my performance for ADV LC in the past tours has felt so lackluster, I'm extremely happy to be able to improve by making teams that are compatible with the user. It's always been a thing where I've built so many teams, but it's often too complex or less beginner-friendly to most people, and I'm glad I'm making progress on that. Either way, it's 5 AM right now, as I had such an urge to write 3 long posts for ADV LC today, and I need to go to sleep despite not feeling tired :X
Anyway, thank you for reading, and big shoutout to everyone that I've collaborated with in playoffs. Made my time worth it and gave me some push to build while having some fun conversations. I've really grown a lot in this community even if it's a short amount of time <3
Now for the playoffs, I'll categorize the players I was involved in supporting for each round.
Top 16
Kingler(W) vs Cielau and Hybone(W) vs Sammy
Idr exactly know how I prepped here, but I knew Kingler prefers hard-hitting and straightforward offense, so I brought these along with some techs like Sub Staryu, Adamant Snubbull, and Endure Anorith to take advantage of the spikes. I actually like this team even nowadays, although If I would change it to make Elekid set max SpAtk, as there are some notable rolls, such as vs Trapinch, for example. Either way, he won it, although that game may have gone cleaner. But it is what it is.
Hybone also asked me earlier than Sammy, so that was one of these "You're too slow" moments unfortunately. Hybone originally had a team he was planning to use, but eventually decided to use the team I gave to him since he trusts me and liked the team, I guess. For him vs Sammy in ADV was pretty much a one-sided matchup as he's better vs Sammy in every aspect in that tier. I'm not sure even if I helped Sammy would have helped vs Hybone due to Hybone's nasty pivoting and positioning that requires experience to play around.
Reggg and Laroxyl were the players I previously helped, so I was adamant about rejecting both of them in ADV pretty hard.
TheFranklin(W) vs JustFranco
TheFranklin contacted me earlier than JustFranco, and I've a strong bias toward him due to playing SS NFE with strong fundamentals as I think he's one of the strongest pkmn players in terms of skills, and I helped him before in the previous LC Classic, sorry JustFranco. Now for the prep, I didn't really change much besides Exeggcute > Treecko from ADVPL semifinals vs Rineko. Now what I was adamant about was him doing the scouts and preparation, and basically gave him all the info on teams JustFranco could've gotten aka Gawain and Souji/Akumu builds from ADVPL. So JustFranco was hella screwed from the ADV LC aspect either way, as the builds were something Franklin had on the tabs.
Top 8
Kingler(W) vs Hybone
Prioritized with Kingler and rejected Hybone immediately. As for the team, it was just a reuse from me vs Shrey at ADVPL. In this week, I was pretty occupied, and Kingler just wanted to bring something brute force, which meant this was an obvious pick. I will say that Kingler got bailed again, especially not calcing, kinda throwing mons away. Was a bit annoyed by that, but whatever; I was not in the mood to be mad at it lmao.
Reggg(W) vs Anakaios
Reggg mainly built his team with some feedback from me, so I'm not posting the team. I'll say it went as expected, but I also lowkey feel bad for kinda cockblocking Anakaios from winning ADV since I've been lowkey prepping vs him so much as he faces players I support for LMAO.
I did not give Michaelder that team I used vs Alder at LCCL semifinals tf... Someone must have leaked it,
TheFranklin(L) vs Raichy
This team was probably a bit too technical for Franklin to use. Even despite turn 1, I think there was a possibility on T18 if he switched to Houndour, as I assume he didn't expect Houndour to die like that. Either way, this was a very rushed team, and I took more caution for the next round.
Top 4
Kingler(W) vs Raichy
Now this is one of my most favourite teams ever. Ponyta lead is Offensive, but the twist is the Double Kick + HP Grass. Double Kick lets it bypass Flash Fire weakness, while hitting Lileep, Magnemite, and Snubbull, breaking Sub. Everything else is a normal FWG balance, with Oddish being 12 in speed to speed creep 11 Speed Exeggcute lol. This is a super odd Sun team due to the team synergy not being standard, and very anti-meta team. I knew Raichy, or well Ecat had some out-of-meta builds, so I wanted to bring something that responded the same vs them, but also find some wallbreakers that bypass their synergy to catch them off guard. Very happy with this build and huge thanks to Kingler for winning this raw ass team.
MichaelderBeste2(W) vs anankaios
At this point, I've actually just helped people against Anankaios on ADV and prevented him from getting a win on this tier, and I'm such a dick for that. For this team, this is an old team I don't even remember using until Michaelder pointed out it was for vs MZ at LCCL, but Snubbull over Abra. Since Doduo + Onix is such a baller combo, I accepted it pretty quickly, and I ended up liking the team a ton. It's not the most optimal team to cover matchups, but it has its insane wallbreaker that's not normal to see in this tier, so it's a cool af team that I
Finals
Kingler(W) vs MichaelderBeste2
Kingler wanted another rain team, but a bit more optimized and less gimmicky than the CB Wailmer lead. At first I was hesitant with the amount of offense he liked to bring, but eventually I went through a team I ended up liking a TON. This isn't like straightforward offense, but more so a bit of balance with the goal of getting rid of the water mons as much as possible. Snubbull was brought there for the lead MU, but it also invited in Lileep, Koffing, and Duskull, which Magnemite and, to some degree, Wailmer could take advantage of. And Magnemite is an innovative set I want to talk about quickly.
Magnemite @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic
It's a fast and bulkier set in trade for the power, which gives it the capability to sub behind Lileep without its sub being broken, doesn't give a fuck about Gastly sets bar HP Ground like on most mons mentioned. Like, I'll admit one of the reasons why you have HP Ground on so many mons besides on Chinchou, and 20 Electrics, is because mons like Magnemite have that insane typing that can be difficult to break in. It's kinda like treating Snover with HP Fire, Ferroseed with HP Fire, etc type shit. Everything else is pretty normal, but I'll mention that Gastly used to have Rain Dance over Thief, but I rejected that to give it more favour vs Chinchou and thief mindgames.
As for how the match went, I think Kingler did accordingly until the endgame, with Bagon potentially sweeping. But that is my fault for informing him that Horsea Ice Beam OHKO's Bagon, as Careful Bagon exists, and I didn't inform him that Snubbull also destroys Bagon as well. I think the MU could have been close, but those early turns where Michaelder got vibe checked and got off Anorith so early sealed the game IMO.
As you can see, I've been incredibly involved in ADV LC tours more than you think. And I know I'm a pain in the ass, so I can only say sorry for that. But otherwise, while my performance for ADV LC in the past tours has felt so lackluster, I'm extremely happy to be able to improve by making teams that are compatible with the user. It's always been a thing where I've built so many teams, but it's often too complex or less beginner-friendly to most people, and I'm glad I'm making progress on that. Either way, it's 5 AM right now, as I had such an urge to write 3 long posts for ADV LC today, and I need to go to sleep despite not feeling tired :X
Anyway, thank you for reading, and big shoutout to everyone that I've collaborated with in playoffs. Made my time worth it and gave me some push to build while having some fun conversations. I've really grown a lot in this community even if it's a short amount of time <3
Personally, I'm very grateful to iss for continuing to fund the LC Classic tournament. I think this prize money has played a huge role in keeping LC Classic so competitive — it draws both LC specialists and generalist players who are simply just very skilled, and I personally really enjoy that feeling of everyone showing off their own strengths.
Let me start with my story. Before the 2025 LC Classic, my experience with LC was basically limited to Gen 6 and Gen 7, where I'd just mess around on the LC ladder casually. At the time, very few people in China played LC, so everyone basically knew I was playing it. Around Gen 7 and Gen 8, I briefly taught some Chinese LC players Shou Dui and Duguo and Suwa_yriafelc— who were still new players at the time — how to play competitive Pokémon, and I kept playing LC or other formats with them. As for earlier-generation LC, and SS with Vullaby allowed, my knowledge was basically zero. Even for ORAS and SM, the teams I enjoyed using back in the day were mostly "have fun" teams.These teams once played more than 90gxe on ladder so I once used those teams in LCWC and got completely destroyed.Though it may because I'm not playing well, I start not particularly confident in them. So because I wanted to take this tournament seriously, I decided to put everything aside and relearn LC from scratch. Precisely because I didn't have much real experience before the tournament, and because I thought these tiers should be probably already fairly mature with little potential for major new developments, I basically just found a few well-known veteran players I could recognize, watched their replays, and copied their teams. I have my theory of how to quickly learn a new meta and the main part is try to refine my own understanding by observing the teams of top players. Almost all of my tournament teams were copied from somewhere, so I don't really have any teams to share（That may be improper if I do despite most of these teams are my rebuild). That's exactly why I never knew what to say, and only now do I feel like writing something. I've also been playing LC tournaments for quite a while now, and I do feel like I've developed some understanding, so I'll just casually share some thoughts on these metas.
**SS**
In 2025, because I had too little experience, I lost early in most of the other gens. Since I happened to survive into the later rounds in SS, I decided to focus most of my energy on SS, because I looked at the point system and realized that sticking with one tier all the way would score higher. This was also pretty much the first gen I learned in depth. Since this gen has no Hidden Power, it's basically the most stable of all the LC gens — when conventional teams face off, you have to play slowly and maneuver for a while before you can punch a hole in the opponent's team.
There was once some discussion about whether Abra should be banned, so let me briefly talk about it. Personally, I don't think it has particularly absurd breaking power. Currently there are two very effective ways to handle Abra, and they only require the most popular Pokémon. The first is Eviolite Diglett — as long as you're a bit careful not to take a Life Orb Energy Ball, you can directly switch in and trap and kill Abra. Abra carrying Shed Shell sacrifices too much strength, and honestly I've barely seen anyone play it that way recently. The second is to invest more Special Defense on your mandatory Vullaby, so it can switch into Stealth Rock and take non-LO Dazzling Gleam, or take LO Dazzling Gleam at full HP. Considering how hard it is for Abra to get on the field, this basically gives you more than enough room to handle it.
Also, Grookey has clearly performed better recently. I think it's a Pokémon that requires some patience and plays the long game. It can't just instantly break the opponent's team, because there are many popular Pokémon (Vull, Koffing) it simply can't hurt much, but its advantage is that it can keep wearing things down with U-turn and Knock Off until eventually no one on the opposing team can stop it anymore. The straight-up sweeper playstyle isn't really suitable overall, though the SD + Mega Kick set is genuinely very threatening — it's just that the accuracy is an issue.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I think, is Koffing. It's a defensive core while also applying huge offensive pressure, and honestly very few teams actually have a Pokémon well-suited to wall it. Also, if you're facing a slower Regenerator Pokémon and think it's going to switch out, you can consider directly switching in Koffing to block its Regenerator. I personally really enjoy that kind of playmaking feel.
**SM**
In this year's LC Classic, although my situation in the other gens was much better than last year, I still lost a lot early on due to carelessness and needed a higher score to make playoff, so I had to at least get runner-up in SM to qualify. But even though I won the tour this time, I still feel I haven't fully grasped the whole picture of this meta. There are so many Pokémon you can use in this mode, and I think the secret to playing this tier well is to try as many different Pokémon as possible, or try different sets of the same Pokémon, while also trying to understand roughly what some niche Pokémon do, so you don't get caught off guard by a lack of information.
Compared to Gen 8, Gen 7's style clearly has more uncertainty, which basically comes from its diversity— but that's also its charm. My theory is that a meta's diversity and stability are generally mutually exclusive: as soon as diversity goes up, stability won't be too high. But as long as one of the two is high, it can be considered a good meta.
Foongus is arguably one of the foundational Pokémon of this gen. Basically every team has to consider how to deal with Spore, and because it has HP Fire, you can't just solve it simply with Ferro like in Gen 8. The ways to handle Spore can be very creative, which I find really interesting. More conventionally, you can just bring a Ferro plus something that can instantly kill Foongus, or just bring Foongus itself. You can also sacrifice general strength by choosing Overcoat Vullaby or Chespin, which might be the option with the highest Foongus resistance. You can also give some defensively capable Pokémon Sleep Talk, like Foo and Alolan Grimer. You can even just throw out any Pokémon to take the Spore and later wake it up with Heal Bell. The funniest is Mirror Coat Snivy — switch it in on the Spore first, then Mirror Coat directly handles Foongus against Sludge Bomb.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I'll pick Rufflet, because in other gens it's either banned or not very usable. Rather than the conventional Choice Scarf, I'd rather talk about the Bulk Up set. Its bulk is surprisingly high — after a Bulk Up, it can comfortably stand up to Onix. I once lost to this set in the finals of a Chinese community LC individual tournament during gen7, so it left a deep impression on me.
**ORAS**
Although this is the gen I first encountered LC in, the current environment feels very unfamiliar to me. The most obvious difference I can feel is that back then people really loved using Sturdy + Berry Juice combos, whereas today Onix seems to have shifted to Weak Armor like in Gen 7, and Magnemite to Scarf Magnet Pull / Analytic. I can understand that this pattern needs hazard removal and is genuinely hard to pilot, but I'm still quite surprised there's such a big stylistic difference. Also, since this gen has no hhp, Ponyta used to be underrated here, but recently I've seen people use Fire Blast + HP Grass + Will-O-Wisp sets, and it genuinely causes quite a bit of trouble for many popular Pokémon. I really haven't studied this gen much, so I can't say anything more useful.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I think, is Gothita. Although it's also usable in Gen 9, I feel its team-building is richer in this gen and possibly stronger too. Fletch is also something of a signature Pokémon — if you specifically invest in bulk it's much tankier than you'd expect, and Swords Dance can easily sweep, though if the opponent has enough resistances it struggles and may not accomplish much.
**BW**
I don't know why, but I've been assigned to this gen in both LCPLs. At first I thought this gen was the most cancerous, with Pokémon like Clamperl and Riolu that just straight-up win games, but later I thought about it more carefully and realized the cost of not completely losing to Riolu doesn't seem that high. I haven't studied Clamperl much yet, but I think its potential is very high.
If you set aside these straight-up sweep factors, BW's pace is much slower than other gens, mainly because Knock Off is very weak in power, so people won't just throw it on whenever they have the chance. Some Pokémon are hard to Knock Off, which makes their bulk very high. Permanent weather is also an interesting mechanic — I personally really like Hippopotas and Snover (aesthetically speaking), and it's nice to see them play some kind of role.
As for whether to ban Dig or Oma, I personally wouldn't touch it either. I don't think Diglett performs noticeably better in this gen than in others, and as for Oma, in the games I've watched or played I've almost never seen a sufficiently braindead Oma Shell Smash sweep, so I guess it's probably acceptable.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I'll give to Gastly. Although it's also strong in other gens, only in this gen does it show defensive value, which elevates it to an S-tier Pokémon. Even so, if Gastly's opponent is dead set on removing it, it's still easy to trap and kill with Pursuit. I personally think that since Gastly is such an important Pokémon, Pursuit users are currently rated a bit too low.
**DPP**
I think this is my favorite gen. After Melon won the DPP Cup, they posted some thoughts on this tier, and after reading them I played according to what melon said in empty tours, and I just kept winning — until Eeveeto eventually beat me in a very tense and close finals Bo7 and showed me a completely different team style. He also shared his teams afterward, and from then on, in order to learn his style, I only played his teams, and I've barely ever lost with them in various roomtours and casual play. The teams are indeed much more solid than I initially imagined. I find it quite amazing that in a meta with almost mandatory Pokémon, there can be two such different successful styles — I really like that feeling.
The most unique interaction of this gen, I think, is the one between Bronzor and Wynaut. Bronzor is a very strong Pokémon, but when it tries to use Stealth Rock, the opponent can switch in Wynaut and use Encore, then keep using Tickle until Bronzor's Defense is minimized, wait for Encore to end, hit it with another one, and then bring in a Pursuit user to trap and kill it. However, a Bronzor with a strong will to survive can choose to invest a lot of Speed and use Skill Swap to escape the trap, or it can just switch out first to test whether the opponent has Wynaut. In 2025 classic playoffs , I successfully survived from reggg's Wynaut with a regular Bronzor.I think I played an impressive game.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I'll choose Gligar, since after all you can't use it in other gens. In a sense, Gligar is similar to the SS Grookey I mentioned earlier — a pivot-type Pokémon that needs to patiently wear down the opponent's HP until they suddenly realize they can't stop you anymore.
**ADV**
Because of 30 HP Sitrus, I think this is the most unique gen. I believe the key to winning this mode is eating as many Sitrus Berries as possible. Although its effect is very powerful, a lot of the time you actually can't eat it: you might just get killed outright, or the Sitrus gets stolen, or the opponent cleverly uses a small move plus a big move to kill you without triggering Sitrus. So I think the key to this gen is wisely using switches to eat as many berries as possible — these berries can sometimes be used as a free switch-in opportunity. At the same time, you can also try to attack away the opponent's Sitrus, trying to deny their berries using the methods above. Another style is to use more Attack-boosting setup (or berries) to just sweep directly — since you're aiming to OHKO the opponent, once you succeed you can ignore Sitrus entirely.
For historical reasons, everyone's impression of ADV is basically that it's the Sitrus gen. So personally I don't want to see Sitrus banned, because this item brings a whole new way of playing the game, and that way isn't particularly absurd.
The signature Pokémon of this gen would be Anorith. This Pokémon's playstyle is basically about preventing the opponent from eating its berry: first, it's one of the few Pokémon that can learn Knock Off; second, its Swords Dance playstyle can also directly knock out the opponent to stop it from eating the berry. While being offensively strong, its defensive attributes are also decent. The only downside is that Rock Blast is far too unreliable — it screws over both the opponent and yourself.
Finally, thanks to all the friends I've met here. Special thanks to Smogon for hosting Chinese PL and to the people who helped push this tournament forward — if not for this tournament, I probably wouldn't have come back to the game and started actively playing Smogon tournaments.
Let me start with my story. Before the 2025 LC Classic, my experience with LC was basically limited to Gen 6 and Gen 7, where I'd just mess around on the LC ladder casually. At the time, very few people in China played LC, so everyone basically knew I was playing it. Around Gen 7 and Gen 8, I briefly taught some Chinese LC players Shou Dui and Duguo and Suwa_yriafelc— who were still new players at the time — how to play competitive Pokémon, and I kept playing LC or other formats with them. As for earlier-generation LC, and SS with Vullaby allowed, my knowledge was basically zero. Even for ORAS and SM, the teams I enjoyed using back in the day were mostly "have fun" teams.These teams once played more than 90gxe on ladder so I once used those teams in LCWC and got completely destroyed.Though it may because I'm not playing well, I start not particularly confident in them. So because I wanted to take this tournament seriously, I decided to put everything aside and relearn LC from scratch. Precisely because I didn't have much real experience before the tournament, and because I thought these tiers should be probably already fairly mature with little potential for major new developments, I basically just found a few well-known veteran players I could recognize, watched their replays, and copied their teams. I have my theory of how to quickly learn a new meta and the main part is try to refine my own understanding by observing the teams of top players. Almost all of my tournament teams were copied from somewhere, so I don't really have any teams to share（That may be improper if I do despite most of these teams are my rebuild). That's exactly why I never knew what to say, and only now do I feel like writing something. I've also been playing LC tournaments for quite a while now, and I do feel like I've developed some understanding, so I'll just casually share some thoughts on these metas.
**SS**
In 2025, because I had too little experience, I lost early in most of the other gens. Since I happened to survive into the later rounds in SS, I decided to focus most of my energy on SS, because I looked at the point system and realized that sticking with one tier all the way would score higher. This was also pretty much the first gen I learned in depth. Since this gen has no Hidden Power, it's basically the most stable of all the LC gens — when conventional teams face off, you have to play slowly and maneuver for a while before you can punch a hole in the opponent's team.
There was once some discussion about whether Abra should be banned, so let me briefly talk about it. Personally, I don't think it has particularly absurd breaking power. Currently there are two very effective ways to handle Abra, and they only require the most popular Pokémon. The first is Eviolite Diglett — as long as you're a bit careful not to take a Life Orb Energy Ball, you can directly switch in and trap and kill Abra. Abra carrying Shed Shell sacrifices too much strength, and honestly I've barely seen anyone play it that way recently. The second is to invest more Special Defense on your mandatory Vullaby, so it can switch into Stealth Rock and take non-LO Dazzling Gleam, or take LO Dazzling Gleam at full HP. Considering how hard it is for Abra to get on the field, this basically gives you more than enough room to handle it.
Also, Grookey has clearly performed better recently. I think it's a Pokémon that requires some patience and plays the long game. It can't just instantly break the opponent's team, because there are many popular Pokémon (Vull, Koffing) it simply can't hurt much, but its advantage is that it can keep wearing things down with U-turn and Knock Off until eventually no one on the opposing team can stop it anymore. The straight-up sweeper playstyle isn't really suitable overall, though the SD + Mega Kick set is genuinely very threatening — it's just that the accuracy is an issue.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I think, is Koffing. It's a defensive core while also applying huge offensive pressure, and honestly very few teams actually have a Pokémon well-suited to wall it. Also, if you're facing a slower Regenerator Pokémon and think it's going to switch out, you can consider directly switching in Koffing to block its Regenerator. I personally really enjoy that kind of playmaking feel.
**SM**
In this year's LC Classic, although my situation in the other gens was much better than last year, I still lost a lot early on due to carelessness and needed a higher score to make playoff, so I had to at least get runner-up in SM to qualify. But even though I won the tour this time, I still feel I haven't fully grasped the whole picture of this meta. There are so many Pokémon you can use in this mode, and I think the secret to playing this tier well is to try as many different Pokémon as possible, or try different sets of the same Pokémon, while also trying to understand roughly what some niche Pokémon do, so you don't get caught off guard by a lack of information.
Compared to Gen 8, Gen 7's style clearly has more uncertainty, which basically comes from its diversity— but that's also its charm. My theory is that a meta's diversity and stability are generally mutually exclusive: as soon as diversity goes up, stability won't be too high. But as long as one of the two is high, it can be considered a good meta.
Foongus is arguably one of the foundational Pokémon of this gen. Basically every team has to consider how to deal with Spore, and because it has HP Fire, you can't just solve it simply with Ferro like in Gen 8. The ways to handle Spore can be very creative, which I find really interesting. More conventionally, you can just bring a Ferro plus something that can instantly kill Foongus, or just bring Foongus itself. You can also sacrifice general strength by choosing Overcoat Vullaby or Chespin, which might be the option with the highest Foongus resistance. You can also give some defensively capable Pokémon Sleep Talk, like Foo and Alolan Grimer. You can even just throw out any Pokémon to take the Spore and later wake it up with Heal Bell. The funniest is Mirror Coat Snivy — switch it in on the Spore first, then Mirror Coat directly handles Foongus against Sludge Bomb.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I'll pick Rufflet, because in other gens it's either banned or not very usable. Rather than the conventional Choice Scarf, I'd rather talk about the Bulk Up set. Its bulk is surprisingly high — after a Bulk Up, it can comfortably stand up to Onix. I once lost to this set in the finals of a Chinese community LC individual tournament during gen7, so it left a deep impression on me.
**ORAS**
Although this is the gen I first encountered LC in, the current environment feels very unfamiliar to me. The most obvious difference I can feel is that back then people really loved using Sturdy + Berry Juice combos, whereas today Onix seems to have shifted to Weak Armor like in Gen 7, and Magnemite to Scarf Magnet Pull / Analytic. I can understand that this pattern needs hazard removal and is genuinely hard to pilot, but I'm still quite surprised there's such a big stylistic difference. Also, since this gen has no hhp, Ponyta used to be underrated here, but recently I've seen people use Fire Blast + HP Grass + Will-O-Wisp sets, and it genuinely causes quite a bit of trouble for many popular Pokémon. I really haven't studied this gen much, so I can't say anything more useful.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I think, is Gothita. Although it's also usable in Gen 9, I feel its team-building is richer in this gen and possibly stronger too. Fletch is also something of a signature Pokémon — if you specifically invest in bulk it's much tankier than you'd expect, and Swords Dance can easily sweep, though if the opponent has enough resistances it struggles and may not accomplish much.
**BW**
I don't know why, but I've been assigned to this gen in both LCPLs. At first I thought this gen was the most cancerous, with Pokémon like Clamperl and Riolu that just straight-up win games, but later I thought about it more carefully and realized the cost of not completely losing to Riolu doesn't seem that high. I haven't studied Clamperl much yet, but I think its potential is very high.
If you set aside these straight-up sweep factors, BW's pace is much slower than other gens, mainly because Knock Off is very weak in power, so people won't just throw it on whenever they have the chance. Some Pokémon are hard to Knock Off, which makes their bulk very high. Permanent weather is also an interesting mechanic — I personally really like Hippopotas and Snover (aesthetically speaking), and it's nice to see them play some kind of role.
As for whether to ban Dig or Oma, I personally wouldn't touch it either. I don't think Diglett performs noticeably better in this gen than in others, and as for Oma, in the games I've watched or played I've almost never seen a sufficiently braindead Oma Shell Smash sweep, so I guess it's probably acceptable.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I'll give to Gastly. Although it's also strong in other gens, only in this gen does it show defensive value, which elevates it to an S-tier Pokémon. Even so, if Gastly's opponent is dead set on removing it, it's still easy to trap and kill with Pursuit. I personally think that since Gastly is such an important Pokémon, Pursuit users are currently rated a bit too low.
**DPP**
I think this is my favorite gen. After Melon won the DPP Cup, they posted some thoughts on this tier, and after reading them I played according to what melon said in empty tours, and I just kept winning — until Eeveeto eventually beat me in a very tense and close finals Bo7 and showed me a completely different team style. He also shared his teams afterward, and from then on, in order to learn his style, I only played his teams, and I've barely ever lost with them in various roomtours and casual play. The teams are indeed much more solid than I initially imagined. I find it quite amazing that in a meta with almost mandatory Pokémon, there can be two such different successful styles — I really like that feeling.
The most unique interaction of this gen, I think, is the one between Bronzor and Wynaut. Bronzor is a very strong Pokémon, but when it tries to use Stealth Rock, the opponent can switch in Wynaut and use Encore, then keep using Tickle until Bronzor's Defense is minimized, wait for Encore to end, hit it with another one, and then bring in a Pursuit user to trap and kill it. However, a Bronzor with a strong will to survive can choose to invest a lot of Speed and use Skill Swap to escape the trap, or it can just switch out first to test whether the opponent has Wynaut. In 2025 classic playoffs , I successfully survived from reggg's Wynaut with a regular Bronzor.I think I played an impressive game.
The signature Pokémon of this gen, I'll choose Gligar, since after all you can't use it in other gens. In a sense, Gligar is similar to the SS Grookey I mentioned earlier — a pivot-type Pokémon that needs to patiently wear down the opponent's HP until they suddenly realize they can't stop you anymore.
**ADV**
Because of 30 HP Sitrus, I think this is the most unique gen. I believe the key to winning this mode is eating as many Sitrus Berries as possible. Although its effect is very powerful, a lot of the time you actually can't eat it: you might just get killed outright, or the Sitrus gets stolen, or the opponent cleverly uses a small move plus a big move to kill you without triggering Sitrus. So I think the key to this gen is wisely using switches to eat as many berries as possible — these berries can sometimes be used as a free switch-in opportunity. At the same time, you can also try to attack away the opponent's Sitrus, trying to deny their berries using the methods above. Another style is to use more Attack-boosting setup (or berries) to just sweep directly — since you're aiming to OHKO the opponent, once you succeed you can ignore Sitrus entirely.
For historical reasons, everyone's impression of ADV is basically that it's the Sitrus gen. So personally I don't want to see Sitrus banned, because this item brings a whole new way of playing the game, and that way isn't particularly absurd.
The signature Pokémon of this gen would be Anorith. This Pokémon's playstyle is basically about preventing the opponent from eating its berry: first, it's one of the few Pokémon that can learn Knock Off; second, its Swords Dance playstyle can also directly knock out the opponent to stop it from eating the berry. While being offensively strong, its defensive attributes are also decent. The only downside is that Rock Blast is far too unreliable — it screws over both the opponent and yourself.
Finally, thanks to all the friends I've met here. Special thanks to Smogon for hosting Chinese PL and to the people who helped push this tournament forward — if not for this tournament, I probably wouldn't have come back to the game and started actively playing Smogon tournaments.
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