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Format Discussion Past Gens Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter A Cake Wearing A Hat
- Start date
It is one of the core principles of Random Battles, as set by Zarel from the start. It's not changing.
I've played over 8000 gen 3 random matches and have to say that the balancing is pretty good. My only complaint is when an attack fails to break a substitute (Move was neither super effective or not-very effective.) Without specific examples, the admins obviously can't do anything. But now that I know this thread exists, I'll share more examples in the future.
I second others ideas in the thread for more experimentation of move sets and monsters. I love that vigoroth and pikachu are in gen 3 randoms. I wouldn't mind seeing dragonair and onix added.
Oh... since it just popped to mind... I want to see a shuckle with the moveset Toxic, Swagger, Protect and Rest. Swagger lets it attack stuff like gengar and other special attackers. It works well in less competitive formats.
I second others ideas in the thread for more experimentation of move sets and monsters. I love that vigoroth and pikachu are in gen 3 randoms. I wouldn't mind seeing dragonair and onix added.
Oh... since it just popped to mind... I want to see a shuckle with the moveset Toxic, Swagger, Protect and Rest. Swagger lets it attack stuff like gengar and other special attackers. It works well in less competitive formats.
From your perspective, what should Dragonair and Onix specifically be added to the format?
The way I see it, Vigoroth and Pikachu both have very clear cases for being in the Pokemon pool:
- Vigoroth is the pre-evolution of a Pokemon that has an utterly crippling ability, so Vigoroth is how a Pokemon in that evolutionary line can be used without being hindered by this ability.
- Pikachu has access to an item no other Pokemon does, and this item gives it immense immediate hitting power which far surpasses that of its evolution.
So what about Dragonair and Onix?
- Dragonair simply lacks one of the types that its evolution has. That's it. By that reasoning, should we also add Charmeleon? Nidorina/Nidorino? Poliwhirl? etc. Personally, I'd say no on all of these. I see no reason for Dragonair to be added. Please explain why you believe that Dragonair should be included and how it'd be distinct from Dragonite. Also, do you believe the aforementioned examples or other examples in the same category should also be included? If not, why? What makes Dragonair in particular special?
- On Onix, I'm slightly warmer. One of its types is fully replaced upon its evolution, which is a bigger change than simply having a new type added. Also, one of its base stats is higher than that of its evolution, so that strengthes the argument that Onix might have a unique niche to offer to the format. Can you provide some examples sets that prove Onix can viably be something fully distinct from Steelix, instead of just Steelix-lite?
Late reply, but I just like playing with the sprites so I suppose nostalgia is a factor here. I would make Onix similar to Luvdisc. It doesn't have high attacking power so being a toxic staller could be the way to go. I would have also suggested giving it Roar, but with baton pass now banned, there might not be a need for it as much anymore. I do wish they had added more roar and whirlwind to the format before banning baton pass. I don't mind conceding the point that dragonair is pointless, but maybe making it into a special attacker with thunder wave could be interesting.
Can spiky eared pichu be added to gen 4 rands as it's an FE by technicality? (Asking for someone)
i think everyone would prefer if this did not happen, it would be really bad
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3randombattle-2673684239
My opp and I agree on reporting this shiftry set. It wasn't either chlorophyll, nor early bird rest
My opp and I agree on reporting this shiftry set. It wasn't either chlorophyll, nor early bird rest
Gsc rands: having setup + bp + heal in a mon is too much, when the other team might just be getting toxic / resttalk breakers. Even more so with a typing like psychic which is hard to hit se with common coverage. Espeon also isn't that much low-leveled, so wtf. (I had the espeon, i'm complaining bc my poor opp deserved better).
Setup is necessary imo bc it shakes up a bit what otherwise would be resttalk fests. But i strongly oppose having healing with it (in this case, morning sun?! Even more op).
(Even tho setup passing to a resttalker is strong af, rn I won't argue for that too)
Setup is necessary imo bc it shakes up a bit what otherwise would be resttalk fests. But i strongly oppose having healing with it (in this case, morning sun?! Even more op).
(Even tho setup passing to a resttalker is strong af, rn I won't argue for that too)
the team would prefer keeping early bird on shiftry (which does have use for sleep absorption) than having it always be chlorophyll just in case the opponent rolls a groudon.
as for your other post, i beg you to read the OP:
I don't see how it's a subjective complain, instead of
"- Suggestions on moves or items to add to (or remove from) Pokemon, backed by good reasoning."
My suggestion is to remove healing on setup passers, and that was my reasoning. It's not a simple bad odds complain, it's unwinnable in a lot of mu's.
Fine, brought your demand to the council. If a majority of them deem it necessary to purposefully nerf several pokemon then that'll happen. Otherwise we don't do that.
(The gen8 thread’s last comment said to post here for gen8 randbats as it is an old gen now). Recommendation: (remember--I'm pretty sure I heard a moderator or some official PS person say--we are trying to make each pokemon's moveset as good as possible for that pokemon, not make it in any way 'worse to make the meta more balanced'.) Make haxorus be not just always lum berry but either life orb or lum berry (I suggest a high probability to be life orb and I'm thinking make it life orb 50% to 100% of the time). Life orb boosts it 1.3x with and without dynamax (scarf and band do not, at least in one strong technical sense, help with dynamax as they do not increase speed/attack while dynamaxed but life orb greatly helps); life orb boosts attack massively when dynamaxing and good players frequently both want to dynamax and do in fact dynamax haxorus right after 1 dragon dance (with life orb, after 1 dragon dance STAB wymrwind goes from BP315 to BP409.5 on top of a naturally massive base attack stat of 271 so it's basically OHKO'ing everything (obviously I am talking probabilistically--your opponent only gets 6 mons and doesn't get to choose them, but nothing wants to go against something faster with massive attack damage and massive coverage that has to come in when it is already set up) or putting them in range of max knuckle or reducing their attack stat so they do little damage back, and max quake from 130 to 169, etc.--because higher attack damage numbers compound higher and higher on each other multiplicatively instead of just linearly when you stack life orb on high base attack on dynamax increased base power of moves--and if you add iron head to the moveset--which by the way should replace poison jab on the moveset as it also deals with fairies and max steel gives a defense boost instead of the special attack boost from dynamax poison that does not help haxorus and the good 30% iron head flinch chance from a haxorus, especially after 1 dragon dance which it frequently gets off easily, is basically deadly/game-winning in some situations (with a massive offensive threat like haxorus) and can also scare opponents enough to want to dynamax just to avoid getting flinched and losing the game by being finished off the next turn, as dynamax prevents flinching, and also steel has no immunities unlike poison jab so your opponent cannot as easily switch around or gets punished more often--then you go from a mere base 120 for iron head after 1 dragon dance to max steel at BP253.5 after 1 dragon dance with life orb as max steel is BP130 or BP195 after dragon dance vs max ooze from poison jab is only BP90 or BP135 after dragon dance). Life orb is great for sweeping teams and/or forcing opponents to waste their dynamax to try to defensively stop haxorus (the same argument applies to adding iron head over poison jab) and life orb even helps counteract status conditions (to argue against lum berry) because after 1 dragon dance there is no one (ok, maybe a few mons out of the hundreds that you won't have on your team probabilistically, so the haxorus-user would be foolish to be scared of a 5% or so chance and not set up and dynamax right after if they know the meta very well and have a good feel for the probabilities of the opponent having counters) fast enough without prankster or tanky enough to give a status condition to haxorus when it outspeeds and OHKO's with huge coverage and damage with life orb (and dynamax), and prankster moves (which the opponent frequently does not have anyway) are often inaccurate (stun spore, thunder wave) and dragon dance boosts speed and attack anyway to help counteract paralysis and burn but honestly I almost never worry about haxorus getting statused because it just comes in strategically on sticky web users and a large number or even a majority of mons in the meta (with its defensive pure-dragon typing) and sets up in front of them as they have no reliable status moves besides ineffective elemental attacks like thunderbolt or fire blast or non-stab earthquake etc. (the opponent often has no access to status anyway on the turn hidden haxorus is suddenly unexpectedly brought in strategically or maybe only on 1 mon that is already fainted or cannot afflict haxorus without being OHKO'd by it first; also static and effect spore and flame body etc. don't affect dynamax mons (lum berry is less needed); also, even if the opponent somehow burns haxorus (which I feel rarely happens... who wants to click scald or discharge on a dragon type and lose the game when you do no damage and don't get the 30%?), it still has life orb to help counteract it. It has such good coverage and high attack stat and life orb and dynamax boosting its attacks that it is quite impractical to even try to status it on any turn it does not set up--and you can't status it anyway on that turn as it is brought in strategically--as you get OHKO'd before being able to). Life orb haxorus is something that instantly puts fear in any opponent (even if you make life orb the only item haxorus ever gets) and it would also be very scary to fight a haxorus while having to guess if it is 50% lum or 50% life orb because you can instantly lose the game or be put very far behind if you guess wrong (argument in favor of 50/50 lum/orb). Life orb is a haxorus item that arguably always has very high value in every game whereas lum is more situational and often may not help haxorus. The life orb attack boost compounds with dynamax rather than competing with it like other items (even lum to an extent). Life orb recoil is also reduced while dynamaxing (even more dynamax synergy). Also as I recall haxorus in gen8 randbat previously (always?) had life orb as I believe its only item (and it was a real menace, as I recall, with that item--actually it may have been a mix of life orb and band and scarf a long time ago, but I would not recommend band or scarf, as aforementioned). (ps: also max quake boosts spdef and max steel boosts def and max wyrmwind drops the opponent's attack = why it is one of the best offensive mons in the meta, as it can boost its own tankiness by dynamaxing while being hyper offensive at the same time. Also, in fact, I think life orb needs to be put more often on a lot more super strong offensive+fast mons in the meta in general)
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