Format Discussion Past Gens Random Battle Sets

gen 4 kricketune can pull sd/x-sci/brickbreak/return, this set literally gets walled by any ghost type, i wouldnt say having return benefits it by having neutral coverage much since having night slash means you can hit almost anything with dark/fighting/bug, especially when fairy doesnt exist
literally 2 pokemon in gen 4resist d/f/b coverage in toxicroak and heracross, compared to norm/bug/fight coverage being resisted by 11 (and can't hit shedinja)
even without a ghost type normal provides only neutral coverage, no super effective
15 pokemon resist bug/normal/dark,
11 pokemon resist bug/normal/fight,
2 pokemon resist bug/fight/dark.
normal is consistently the worst performing move in terms of coverage, and this checks out for me in battle where i find myself rarely clicking return over x-scissor when the other move (nslash or bb) usually does the job to the bug resist
there is no need for "strong neutral coverage" when having night slash and brick break means x-scissor hits everything else neutrally harder than return, and can be boosted by swarm when kricketune gets low from LO recoil

having dark as a PT would be nice, but that would mean 3/4 of kricketune's moves would be guarenteed. IMO kricketune is quite linear in what it does, perhaps a banded set would be nice, making sd not forced? lvl100 banded probably hurts, and would be nice as some variation to the sd sweeper with a very mediocre speed tier.
removing return to get the fighting/dark coverage every time would also be nice, but leaves kricketune even more linear which could be solved by giving it the second set so its not always the same 3 attacks + sd
a new role could be nice for it, perhaps Fast Attacker to get either band or scarf?
scarf probably feels lackluster with base 85 Attack, so maybe wallbreaker to force band could be nice
also i may be missing that kricketune cant pull band or something because if its base stats? im tired af if its that sorry

also not really a suggestion but just a thought, having an extra HP type that unown could pull would be nice so you dont mindlessly switch into the psychic type that you have and actually thing twice about how to scout it, especially given you dont immediately know between HP fight and the other HP because neutrally they would do the same amount of damage.
dark/fighting/psychic is an unresisted type combo by any pokemon too, and neither is ghost/fight/psy so both of those might be nice to have
apologies for bad structure as usual
 
gen 4 kricketune can pull sd/x-sci/brickbreak/return, this set literally gets walled by any ghost type, i wouldnt say having return benefits it by having neutral coverage much since having night slash means you can hit almost anything with dark/fighting/bug, especially when fairy doesnt exist
literally 2 pokemon in gen 4resist d/f/b coverage in toxicroak and heracross, compared to norm/bug/fight coverage being resisted by 11 (and can't hit shedinja)
even without a ghost type normal provides only neutral coverage, no super effective
15 pokemon resist bug/normal/dark,
11 pokemon resist bug/normal/fight,
2 pokemon resist bug/fight/dark.
normal is consistently the worst performing move in terms of coverage, and this checks out for me in battle where i find myself rarely clicking return over x-scissor when the other move (nslash or bb) usually does the job to the bug resist
there is no need for "strong neutral coverage" when having night slash and brick break means x-scissor hits everything else neutrally harder than return, and can be boosted by swarm when kricketune gets low from LO recoil

having dark as a PT would be nice, but that would mean 3/4 of kricketune's moves would be guarenteed. IMO kricketune is quite linear in what it does, perhaps a banded set would be nice, making sd not forced? lvl100 banded probably hurts, and would be nice as some variation to the sd sweeper with a very mediocre speed tier.
removing return to get the fighting/dark coverage every time would also be nice, but leaves kricketune even more linear which could be solved by giving it the second set so its not always the same 3 attacks + sd
a new role could be nice for it, perhaps Fast Attacker to get either band or scarf?
scarf probably feels lackluster with base 85 Attack, so maybe wallbreaker to force band could be nice
also i may be missing that kricketune cant pull band or something because if its base stats? im tired af if its that sorry
Bug/Fighting/Normal is resisted by Ghost, while Bug/Dark/Normal is resisted by Steel. Bug/Fighting/Dark isn't walled by any one type, but without Return your strongest attack against Fighting, Fire, Flying, and Poison types is 75/70 BP. I'm not fully convinced removing Return is the right move, given that.

Choice Band sounds alright to me.
also not really a suggestion but just a thought, having an extra HP type that unown could pull would be nice so you dont mindlessly switch into the psychic type that you have and actually thing twice about how to scout it, especially given you dont immediately know between HP fight and the other HP because neutrally they would do the same amount of damage.
dark/fighting/psychic is an unresisted type combo by any pokemon too, and neither is ghost/fight/psy so both of those might be nice to have
apologies for bad structure as usual
If anything, I'd rather remove HP fighting and return Unown to HP psychic only. HP fighting's addition has not helped it, except in gen 3 where it's boosted by choice band.
i cant find the screenshot, but in gen 3 forretress can generate a choice band set if it doesnt pull any hazards, is there any way to prevent this, perhaps with some sort of clause that prevents choice band being selected if rapid spin is a move?
maybe choice band forretress can be good with banded explosion but given how precious hazard removal is, even in a gen without stealth rocks, i would rather my spinner not be choice locked
Choice Band Forretress will be removed with the next update.
 
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Bug/Fighting/Normal is resisted by Ghost, while Bug/Dark/Normal is resisted by Steel. Bug/Fighting/Dark isn't walled by any one type, but without Return your strongest attack against Fighting, Fire, Flying, and Poison types is 75/70 BP. I'm not fully convinced removing Return is the right move, given that.
yeah i get that, on second thought maybe return is better because they cant instantly go to a ghost type / steel type because they dont know what coverage it is, and they get punished if they guess wrong
even the slight ambiguity is nice sometimes

If anything, I'd rather remove HP fighting and return Unown to HP psychic only. HP fighting's addition has not helped it, except in gen 3 where it's boosted by choice band.
not sure if i agree with this myself, i think unown should have at least another HP type to make it less easy to switch into at first but thats just me
was there a point where HP fighting was added, and winrates did not increase atfter that?
if so then i cant exactly argue

Choice Band Forretress will be removed with the next update.
thanks :D
 
think bw Octillery should def have LO or expert belt as an item choice considering its a coverage machine. Also scald should be in its moveset for better accuracy and utility then hydropump

edit: also kingdra not having sniper in its ability pool seems like a mistake. Its definitely its best non rain ability, especially with nerfed explosion. Id get if it was to only have swift swim in case you or the opponent has politoad or kyorge, but if mono swiftswim isn't gonna happen (and Im not saying it should) sniper should be its second ability over damp.
 
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bobomania

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think bw Octillery should def have LO or expert belt as an item choice considering its a coverage machine. Also scald should be in its moveset for better accuracy and utility then hydropump

edit: also kingdra not having sniper in its ability pool seems like a mistake. Its definitely its best non rain ability, especially with nerfed explosion. Id get if it was to only have swift swim in case you or the opponent has politoad or kyorge, but if mono swiftswim isn't gonna happen (and Im not saying it should) sniper should be its second ability over damp.
what gen are you talking about here
 
Have this set got rotten? What ya say gen4 Resttalk Dewgong with 2 attacks comparing with other sets (as reference this set lost all the 3 battles in the RBEL even in advantage), a cool change would be Between resttalk surf/ice beam and toxic
 
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bobomania

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Have this set got rotten? What ya say gen4 Resttalk Dewgong with 2 attacks comparing with other sets (as reference this set lost all the 3 battles in the RBEL even in advantage), a cool change would be Between resttalk surf/ice beam and toxic
Moves for Dewgong in [Gen 4] Random Battle:
Level: 91
Bulky Attacker
Moves: Ice Beam, Protect, Rest, Sleep Talk, Surf, Toxic
Fast Attacker
Moves: Rain Dance, Rest, Surf, Toxic
Bulky Support
Moves: Encore, Ice Beam, Rain Dance, Rest, Surf, Toxic

could you clarify what kind of change you would like to see?
 

Adeleine

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i clicked stoss with it fairly often when the format was new, but if it's changed since then idk. stoss usually outdamages iron head in my experience, especially because everything has some defense EVs. twave + iron head regi especially struggles to dent stuff that resists steel, and way more stuff resists steel than is hit SE by it. twave + iron head has some clear synergy, but twave + seismic also has synergy, because twave denies you the continual damage pressure of toxic, but seismic helps make up for that with its higher damage.

i did some back-of-the-napkin damage calcs against various gen7 mons that are neutral to iron head, and my intuition on seismic toss usually outdamaging iron head seems to be sound. i did (average of maximum damage and minimum damage, rounded down) for a hopefully reasonable approximation of average damage, and then i factored in 1/24 chance of 1.5x crit damage on top, and then rounded down again. the guys i picked are on the lower end of randbats levels and thus have lower defense, so seismic toss is probably a little higher in relative-damage than this indicates, unless i'm forgetting some other factor.

note for each that seismic always does 84 damage for registeel, assuming its level in /randbats gen7 is accurate.

107/139 L79 buzzwole: 53 <<< 84
100/100 L81 mew: 67 << 84
79/80 L80 tornadus-t: 81 ~ 84
55/65 L79 mega alakazam: 93 > 84
 
right but then you get stalled or set up on by all fairies and ghosts, mimikyu, clef, etc. getting slightly lower rolls isn't game-losing, but getting setup on is
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

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Random Battle Lead
right but then you get stalled or set up on by all fairies and ghosts, mimikyu, clef, etc. getting slightly lower rolls isn't game-losing, but getting setup on is
Code:
Generated 700 sets for Registeel in [Gen 7] Random Battle:
Approximately 0% (0 sets) had the move Seismic Toss and did not have the move Toxic.
This is not an issue.

On discussion with the development team, Seismic Toss will remain on Registeel due to having on average better damage output against Toxic targets than Iron Head. Registeel always has Toxic when it has Seismic Toss, and as such, it will always be capable of crippling the vast majority of setup sweepers. We do not plan to give its Toxic sets Iron Head always just so it has a better matchup against Clefable.

Thank you for your suggestion.
 
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