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Gen 4 [Gen 4 OU] #1 Ladder Team - Lead Kingdra Offence (Peaked 1751)

LifeOnEnceladus

Ladder Screenshot:

Screenshot 2026-06-02 161652.png


Team-building process:

:kingdra:
The inspiration for lead DD Kingdra came from a ladderer I faced named dia azul.

:kingdra: :azelf:
Azelf as a mid-game rocker came into mind, as it could live almost any hit with a Colbur berry and set up Rocks against almost anything once the opponent's lead is dealt with. If the opponent decides to boom Kingdra straight away, the game essentially restarts from scratch, except it's a 5v5 and I have a fresh Azelf lead.

:kingdra: :azelf: :magnezone:
Scarf Magnezone can trap and revenge KO Steel types which are likely to end Kingdra's run. Removing the right steels can also support the rest of the setup sweepers I decide to employ.

:kingdra: :azelf: :magnezone: :gyarados:
DD Gyarados appreciates Kingdra weakening its common answers like Zapdos and Suicune.

:kingdra: :azelf: :magnezone: :gyarados: :tyranitar:
DD Tyranitar can setup against Pokemon like scarfed Rotom and Latias which are common revenge KOers.

:kingdra: :azelf: :magnezone: :gyarados: :tyranitar: :jirachi:
Superrachi completes the team nicely with its coverage, and can clean up a weakened team with ease.

:kingdra: :metagross: :magnezone: :gyarados: :tyranitar: :jirachi:
Aristrea gave me the idea of using the more conventional Metagross over Azelf. It flows nicer as I can set up Rocks against either an opposing Dragon or Steel that ends Kingdra's run.

:kingdra: :metagross: :magnezone: :gyarados: :tyranitar: :latias:
With Metagross, Jirachi would give me too many type weaknesses, so I replaced it with a similar Calm Minder, Latias.

This new version of the team was slightly more effective, and with good luck got me to #1 on the ladder.

Breakdown:

kingdra.png


Gae Bulg (Kingdra) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sniper
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Substitute

Kingdra is an effective DD lead. It's typing makes it so it's only ever OHKO'd by rare Dragon leads and Explosion, so it will almost always get to use Dragon Dance or force a trade. Kingdra's ambiguity also means leads with Taunt will be afraid to use it on a potential Specs attack. Against a favourable lead matchup, an opponent must tread extremely carefully, as if they guess wrong and switch into a dead weight like Blissey, a set up Kingdra will dent their team early.

Waterfall and Outrage are Kingdra's best STABs and only needed attacks, hitting all unresisted except Empoleon. Substitute is a perfect last move that absorb's an opposing lead's Explosion after Dragon Dance, and anything's attempt to status Kingdra. A Lum Berry breaks Kingdra out of Outrage confusion or allows Kingdra to setup in the face of status.

The speed investment gets Kingdra to 264, allowing it to naturally outspeed lead Skarmory and full speed Heatran, Gyarados and Dragonite, outspeed Aerodactyl at +1, and Scarf Latias at +2. A slightly bulkier spread of 88 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 164 Spe can also be used, getting Kingdra to 247. This naturally outspeeds Tyranitar and bulkier base 100s like Jirachi, Azelf and Starmie at +1, and Scarf Flygon and Jirachi at +2. Sometimes the added bulk can be the difference between a Body Slam breaking a Substitute or a revenge KO Thunderbolt coming short. Sniper is the ability on this set, so that a lucky critical hit can decimate an opponent trying to bait Outrage by switching through their resistances. A lead Kingdra will likely never see Rain to take advantage of Swift Swim.

Kingdra is about surprise, so when setting up, don't reveal your other moves when you don't need to. For example, you are up against a defensive Starmie. Let your Lum Berry take the Thunder Wave for a free setup turn, then reveal Substitute to block the next Thunder Wave (or scout the potential switch). From there, it's only attacking move might be Surf, and even if they have Thunderbolt or Ice Beam, they're desperately in a position to switch out, so don't commit to Outrage to KO the Starmie; play composed and use Waterfall.

metagross.png

Robo (Metagross) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Metagross is here to set up Stealth Rocks against many of Kingdra's revenge KOers, and absorb Clefable and Jirachi's paralysis. It functions normally with standard Meteor Mash and Earthquake coverage and keeps the offense going with a well-timed Explosion.

The speed lets Metagross outspeed Nidoqueen, uninvested Heatran and most opposing Metagross. The defence investment with a Shuca berry is needed to help Bandaid the team's Flygon weakness and improve the Metagross mirror match.

If Metagross is still healthy and hasn't eaten it's Shuca berry, it can be kept around if you expect your opponent to have a DDer like Tyranitar or Gyarados. But once Stealth Rocks are up and Metagross is withered after weakening a Steel, it's job can be considered done, so Metagross should explode.

magnezone.png


Blaster (Magnezone) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Explosion

Magnezone is essential on this type of team to remove Steels like Skarmory, Scizor and Empoleon, which can bring setup sweeps to a screeching halt, and revenge KO weakened exploders like Metagross, Heatran and Bronzong, which prevent setup with the threat of Explosion. Because Metagross is your primary Steel, Magnezone should only be revealed on the turn you are using it to trap an enemy Steel.

Thunderbolt and HP Fire hit the trap targets. Note that I use HP Ground on the Azelf variant of the team, as to trap a slightly weakened Heatran for Superachi. Thunder Wave creates sitting ducks for other setup sweepers, but can be replaced with Flash Cannon if you value damage against Latias and Tyranitar. Like with Metagross, a well-timed Explosion can be used once Magnezone has done it's job.

Being a choice scarfer, Magnezone also has cleanup and revenge KOing potential against non-Steels, and it's Thunder Wave or Explosion can thwart a threat like CM Latias while keeping momentum. Post-trap, Magnezone is still a useful tool to support your sweeps, so it's a good idea to save it for later.

gyarados.png


Daedalus (Gyarados) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Taunt

Gyarados thanks Kingdra for weakening bulky Waters like Swampert and Suicune by carrying the torch. And thanks to Steel-weakeners Kingdra and Metagross, and trapper Magnezone, Gyarados can afford to drop Earthquake and use it's most powerful move, Bounce. With these two STABs, Gyarados really has all the attacks it needs, so it uses Taunt to double down on the stall matchup and make Shed Shell Skarmory users shit the bed. Leftovers comboes nicely with the 2-turn Bounce and the productive Taunt turn. Other moves like Stone Edge and Thunder Wave can also be used based on preference.

If your Gyarados is forced in early, it is usually better to scout your opponent's answer by using an attack instead of setting up. If this doesn't happen, bring your Gyarados in and set up once you see the sweep. Like with Kingdra, Gyarados' moveset is ambiguous. Play with the element of surprise in mind and don't reveal moves you don't need to.

tyranitar.png


EX Red King (Tyranitar) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 184 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

DD Tyranitar is a well-known, synergistic partner of DD Gyarados on hyper offensive teams.

On this team, it's usually the only thing that wants to switch into defensive Rotom's Will-O-Wisp, so Tyranitar holds a Lum Berry and knows Crunch. Because this means Tyranitar might be forced in early, it's coverage includes Earthquake and Fire Punch, as sometimes it will have to threaten healthy Steels. Other viable options are Stone Edge, Aqua Tail and Ice Punch based on preference.

I run a little HP to slightly improve bulk against Rotom's Thunderbolt and Latias' Draco Meteor. The attack investment still gives Tyranitar enough power, especially at +1.

If Tyranitar isn't forced early and sand isn't up, try set up with Gyarados first so it can enjoy the fruits of Leftovers.

latias.png


Saber (Latias) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Recover

CM Latias is usually the last attempt at game. She can also come in earlier to Swampert and Electric attacks, and is the team's best answer to Infernape, but it's best to not reveal Calm Mind until the sweep attempt.

Latias doesn't need HP Fire for Steels as Magnezone should have handled them by this point. While it seems unusual on a team with two Water-types already, Surf is actually the preferred option for Tyranitar and Heatran. Draco Meteor is an option over Dragon Pulse if you feel the damage output is too weak. Because the team doesn't lure in Tyranitar well, it is hard to weaken it before it answers Latias. For this reason, a Colbur berry is used so Latias can escape a Pursuit trap, otherwise, she has good odds of a 2HKO on Max HP Tyranitar with +1 Surf after two rounds of Stealth Rock damage. The Colbur berry is also useful for disguising Latias' item if she switches in early.

Because Latias has excellent bulk, she can set up against defensive teams easily without worrying about strong attacks (but she still should care about status). That said, her damage output isn't very high, so against offensive teams, she makes use of the fact her threats are removed or weakened before sweeping.

Final Team & Comments:

https://pokepast.es/394644a3ecd413fc
https://pokepast.es/cf09b0865d19c2fb (Older Azelf ver.)

I think the Metagross version is better, but I like to switch it up with the Azelf version from time to time. Both versions of the team have a great merit in that all moves on the setup sweepers are 100% accurate bar Gyarados' Bounce, and some of their moves also have great secondary effects like Waterfall's flinch, Bounce's paralysis and Crunch's defence drop. The team can also be considered immune to Toxic Spikes if Tyranitar or Kingdra don't switch back in.

The team's natural speed isn't very good (the fastest mon is Scarf Magnezone), so it doesn't enjoy playing vs. very fast scarfers like Flygon and Latias, which revenge KO easily. Flygon especially, even if not scarf, is very annoying to play into as it's set is ambiguous, it isn't whittled by sand and can keep its momentum with U-Turn. Opposing leads Empoleon, Flygon and Latias put this team, which is all about momentum, instantly on the back foot. The team can also lose vs. rogue sweepers like Raikou.

This is an RMT and definitely not a brag post so I'd love feedback. After all, I'm not the best player in the world.

Replays:

Stall/Defense - The team isn't foolproof in this matchup, but the right sweeper at the right time can easily disassemble a defensive core.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2607035678-9966acws45n29pwuk4m8a8eyjh1ajempw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2598296268

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2621520912

Balance/Offense

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2620712597-t5qc1e35lsa998suj5w97w4w8s2if3dpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2618180238-6rxfifgydwerb390rk3ctwd6lt4s6fgpw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2617579593-l6tx22w7x90mxbjgx7fuyrjdmde9a82pw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2600876341-s8v8gggl2ln54vj740girxgtdcmenvfpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2606962990-aymec021r2yituvo7yx74ripbe1ah9kpw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2599669440?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2598961044

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2622580278

(Azelf Version)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2620453540-kofmoog44f063gq87ktlai3pj2cwsa1pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2617458636-oo8cx21fts2997he6j79o4xrfv5h3sopw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2613852735-udbcov0nkadmj6x7hhs81jw8scxc2fupw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2614943866-wpr6jwy6ejrpqu33f5bwq9w5ghc6v7ppw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2617709743-4tf1xi6006qew50jap04hdf9wf54kawpw

Kingdra Sweeping From Turn 1

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2600814358-312m3lb7u4j2sqmsxgmlhgudej4jkblpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2618985698-pv43xsu602on4mwoifpg708js9j2j34pw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2618974153-cywm2atxbl60a6lm3r7xkoo92qjut3cpw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2618493906-s1yjv17bdvmv4419nu2om4ijlilyf91pw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2617103566-s8ibum8urudo0xpqf645hr5ni6at9cbpw?p2

Bonus Cool Replay

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2614739198-49xiisotq8uglildphu9pcb89pl3e11pw
 
Interesting team, I did make a similar team, but I gave Kingdra lefties, had Special Pert, & Shuca Agil Emp as my finisher with Banded Tar.

Though I usually run a Knock offer with Mag, but you're running Scarf Mag so no harm no foul.

Interesting to see Magnezone as your only scarfer, could get risky if someone got a DD up, I like to run Expert Belt on DD Tar just to apply greater pain on Shed Shell Skarm. (So long as I have a Healing Wish user in the back like Latias for instance.)

I tip my hat to you for beating a Shed Shell Skarm team, you deserve #1.
 
You could try magneton with scarf on this team with hp ice to have extra insurance against scarf gon locked and another way to RK DD Gyara and DD Ttar somewhat weakened with flash cannon if Metagross is also gone and make Latias mixed with EQ, DM and 2 of recover / t bolt or thunder / g knot hp fire or even outrage. Or just regular special attacker e belt with GK / Hp Fire / DM or Pulse / Surf since you’d be getting rid of hp fire zone if Hp ice magneton and this way can still lure and kill scizor.

You can use life orb or e belt, draco plate or just Colbur too.

Have used similar structures and typically I don’t like using zone as sole scarfer on pure offense but that just may be me so I usually use magneton and have another mon in the back to help further with steels and bulky grounds that annoy DDers on the team.

Another option can be to try Trick Zong over Metagross as well to help against shed shell skarm with either lagging tail or iron ball. With IB you get some help with fat rotom / rest talk rotom as well cutting down how useful it is. But trick + SR + having to pick between two of payback, eq, gyro and explosion may make it a bit much to compress, though you can always use lagging tail to preserve that ground immune and force opposing Metagross to boom itself as well.

Keep in mind i play this game very casually mainly only on ladder these days, it has been 17 years for me after all… so apologies if I am out of the loop of very very high level play lol. Just giving you other options.

Solid lead though and fun team.
 
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afterburn said:
You could try magneton with scarf on this team with hp ice to have extra insurance against scarf gon locked and another way to RK DD Gyara and DD Ttar somewhat weakened with flash cannon if Metagross is also gone and make Latias mixed with EQ, DM and 2 of recover / t bolt or thunder / g knot hp fire or even outrage. Or just regular special attacker e belt with GK / Hp Fire / DM or Pulse / Surf since you’d be getting rid of hp fire zone if Hp ice magneton and this way can still lure and kill scizor.

You can use life orb or e belt, draco plate or just Colbur too.

Have used similar structures and typically I don’t like using zone as sole scarfer on pure offense but that just may be me so I usually use magneton and have another mon in the back to help further with steels and bulky grounds that annoy DDers on the team.

Another option can be to try Trick Zong over Metagross as well to help against shed shell skarm with either lagging tail or iron ball. With IB you get some help with fat rotom / rest talk rotom as well cutting down how useful it is. But trick + SR + having to pick between two of payback, eq, gyro and explosion may make it a bit much to compress, though you can always use lagging tail to preserve that ground immune and force opposing Metagross to boom itself as well.

Keep in mind i play this game very casually mainly only on ladder these days, it has been 17 years for me after all… so apologies if I am out of the loop of very very high level play lol. Just giving you other options.

Solid lead though and fun team.
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Thank you so much for this suggestion! I tried it for one game, and I think I prefer having Latias as a Expert Belt pivot instead of a CMer, just due to the way I play and the instant damage output. Magneton's extra speed is also nice, but it's subpar bulk is something I will have to get used to. It's good that I listened to the voice of experience on this one.
 
Personally, since this is an offensive team, I think a Latias LO or Colbur would be a better fit here. The question is whether to go with a HW build, which makes sense, while keeping DM, Surf, and Recover.

By the way, you’re so brave using Bounce on Gyarados. I’m afraid of giving away free turns or even missing.

I feel like DD Taunt Tyranitar or TPunch Metagross might fit better in a team with Azelf. That way you free up SR, and with Tyranitar you can get more free turns on DD against Wow Rotom or TWave Latias... Anyway, it’s hard to change things that already work. The only thing is if you consider a small change to Latias, as others have already mentioned.

Grats.
 
Metagross' base 135 Defense stat is good enough to check physical threats, especially if it has a shuca berry. You should give your Meta more SpD so that your team has a more robust answer to Latias and Gengar.

Afterburn suggested Trick-IB Zong, but you could even run Trick-IB Meta. The set would be MM | Eq | Sr | Trick. Dropping Explosion sucks, but the utility of Trick-IB can make up for it somewhat by slowing things down, taking Leftovers, and grounding mons like Zapdos, Rotom, Skarmory, Bronzong for you to Eq. For example, you could run

Metagross @ Iron Ball
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 20 Def / 152 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock

This Ev spread came from the strategy dex, and the explanation for it is "Should Metagross be required for pivoting purposes, a spread of 252 HP / 64 Atk / 20 Def / 152 SpD / 20 Spe offers a comfortable switch-in to Latias's Draco Meteor and check to Dragon Dance Tyranitar, as it survives +1 Tyranitar Earthquake and OHKOes Tyranitar back after Stealth Rock." This is a minor suggestion as the 3 Att Meta that you are already running is perfectly fine.

Sweepers usually go max-max because they want all the power and speed they can get to be as threatening as possible. I don't think taking so many evs out of Ttar's attack is worth it. If you want, some people go with 8 Hp | 248 Att | 252 Spe to be able to take one more Stoss from Clef. It also slightly improves rolls from Breloom's Mach Punch and Scizor's Bullet Punch.

If you want to stick with Mag, then I second Afterburn's suggestion of trying Magneton + all out attacking Latias. I once ran a set with Ebelt + Draco | Surf | Hp Fire | Healing Wish, which I enjoyed. 4 attacks is still a good option though if you want Grass Knot or Thunderbolt to pressure certain threats.

Edit: I didn't realize TTar has Ice Punch. You could def try running it with a Shuca Berry to be better against Flygon.
 
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:dp/kingdra: (how did you make these Shiny?)

See, this… this conflicts me. On one hand, I despise this Pokémon and anyone who uses it (in single player playthroughs, I must clarify!) (referring to NPCs), but on the other hand, this amount of research and ladder proof to go with your success using this of all Pokémon is actually pretty impressive, I’ll be completely honest. This thing has stolen more Pokémon battles from me over the years than I can count, and like you said, the surprise factor is a very strong aspect of Kingdra’s game. The only reason I haven’t lost to this thing more is specifically because I hate seeing it and actively try to avoid anything involving battling one, but if you’re okay with it, I might even consider giving this team a try myself, though I don’t want to take credit for your work in the builder. I’ll take anything I can get at this point if it means I can look at Kingdra in a positive light in any capacity.

also you replaced jirachi with a colbur berry latias, never mind you’re based
 
robertshortgrass said:
Metagross' base 135 Defense stat is good enough to check physical threats, especially if it has a shuca berry. You should give your Meta more SpD so that your team has a more robust answer to Latias and Gengar.

Afterburn suggested Trick-IB Zong, but you could even run Trick-IB Meta. The set would be MM | Eq | Sr | Trick. Dropping Explosion sucks, but the utility of Trick-IB can make up for it somewhat by slowing things down, taking Leftovers, and grounding mons like Zapdos, Rotom, Skarmory, Bronzong for you to Eq. For example, you could run

Metagross @ Iron Ball
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 20 Def / 152 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock

This Ev spread came from the strategy dex, and the explanation for it is "Should Metagross be required for pivoting purposes, a spread of 252 HP / 64 Atk / 20 Def / 152 SpD / 20 Spe offers a comfortable switch-in to Latias's Draco Meteor and check to Dragon Dance Tyranitar, as it survives +1 Tyranitar Earthquake and OHKOes Tyranitar back after Stealth Rock." This is a minor suggestion as the 3 Att Meta that you are already running is perfectly fine.

Sweepers usually go max-max because they want all the power and speed they can get to be as threatening as possible. I don't think taking so many evs out of Ttar's attack is worth it. If you want, some people go with 8 Hp | 248 Att | 252 Spe to be able to take one more Stoss from Clef. It also slightly improves rolls from Breloom's Mach Punch and Scizor's Bullet Punch.

If you want to stick with Mag, then I second Afterburn's suggestion of trying Magneton + all out attacking Latias. I once ran a set with Ebelt + Draco | Surf | Hp Fire | Healing Wish, which I enjoyed. 4 attacks is still a good option though if you want Grass Knot or Thunderbolt to pressure certain threats.

Edit: I didn't realize TTar has Ice Punch. You could def try running it with a Shuca Berry to be better against Flygon.
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Thanks for your suggestions. I can tweak the EVs on Metagross and Tyranitar a bit, but I think Iron Ball is geared more towards balance teams; it neuters threats but doesn't really help you set up. Plus I'm scared of potentially tricking the wrong blind target. I think that's a skill issue on my part though...
 
bdt2002 said:
:dp/kingdra: (how did you make these Shiny?)

See, this… this conflicts me. On one hand, I despise this Pokémon and anyone who uses it (in single player playthroughs, I must clarify!) (referring to NPCs), but on the other hand, this amount of research and ladder proof to go with your success using this of all Pokémon is actually pretty impressive, I’ll be completely honest. This thing has stolen more Pokémon battles from me over the years than I can count, and like you said, the surprise factor is a very strong aspect of Kingdra’s game. The only reason I haven’t lost to this thing more is specifically because I hate seeing it and actively try to avoid anything involving battling one, but if you’re okay with it, I might even consider giving this team a try myself, though I don’t want to take credit for your work in the builder. I’ll take anything I can get at this point if it means I can look at Kingdra in a positive light in any capacity.

also you replaced jirachi with a colbur berry latias, never mind you’re based
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https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/gen4-shiny/
Here's the index for those shiny sprites.
 
won vs ladder #1 w/ a variant of your team - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2658546322-d5bv9bhnd1vvkij6n68lt5th6ustb6rpw
*lee is suprisingly good against azelf leads
- stone edge turn one
- sucker punch turn two
- mach punch for priority
- limber prevents twave
*scarf magikarp w/ bounce can work as a lead like - https://pokepast.es/c462d9df9a78e6da (for some reason this team has weirdly good flow)

another variant - https://pokepast.es/dd142face0d051f5 - my favorite gastrodon team
- a little weak to toxic spikes, but tar and gyara can cover over gastrodon in these situations

one more variant - https://pokepast.es/0ea1bb48cbc2195a *maybe wacan or lum or still taunt on gyara

one last variant - https://pokepast.es/fadd14f3f6361fbd (this is a good variant)

this may work too - https://pokepast.es/8a5463dc5e51ce05 or this - https://pokepast.es/88de1244bebd51e6

or this - https://pokepast.es/7d5375030b7a0844 - this is a cool variant

variant - https://pokepast.es/b1a3da56eac70139

variant - https://pokepast.es/f7b9f6a81345b3a7

variant - https://pokepast.es/0e11899f79786bb7 *maybe jolly/ice punch over adamant/explosion on gross or swap scizor w/ another strong pokemon like cb flygon or some variant of latias

dragmag variant - https://pokepast.es/b135dfac18cbcac6 or https://pokepast.es/a286e6afd9cf0a51*maybe lo on latias w/ sucker punch over trick or this - https://pokepast.es/b0ff335ea626771b or this - https://pokepast.es/8d293514436349b6 (or stick with scarf on dnite on this last team)
*i like the kingdra last pokemon team the best
*also i like putting sd lickilicky in the lead spot like - https://pokepast.es/4f0947a7a2105f2b

(possibly max out def on jirachi to help vs eqs) also maybe swap metagross with iron ball zong to trick
 
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For that Zapdos set you guys were talking about, I would personally slot Roost over Protect and Discharge over Thunderbolt especially if you’re changing to Life Orb. Roost is going to be very important in making sure Zapdos can heal off weaker and/or resisted hits and passive damage (specifically Stealth Rock, Leech Seed and your own Life Orb) and IIRC Life Orb Discharge hits harder than a regular Thunderbolt anyways while still allowing you have that higher paralysis rate for situations where you want a paralysis on a check but Thunder Wave isn’t optimal. Depending on how any of your guys’ games go with this Zapdos, I could see a bulkier U-Turn + Roost set with Discharge and maybe Heat Wave working too if this team needs a central pivot (unfortunately this set lacks Static in Gen 4, but it’s still decent).

The main reason I would keep Protect on Zapdos is for residual healing with Leftovers, but this ultimately seems team dependent and Protect does have utility against Choiced threats that you lose out on with LO Roost so there’s that, too.

mackie said:
a variation of your team that ive been having some good matches with on the ladder -

https://pokepast.es/6de4ce8e2ca87c29

edit - i feel like u can run sd scizor over the asian, you'll just be more nape weak (maybe run the quick attack version), also maybe life orb on zapdos to secure OHKOs on swamperts and hit hippos harder
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Cool team variation no jirachi or kingdra = double based but just out of curiosity, how do you deal with hazards? I imagine some combination of Magnezone trapping Skarmory/Forretress + Taunt Gyarados but I could be wrong.
 
bdt2002 said:
For that Zapdos set you guys were talking about, I would personally slot Roost over Protect and Discharge over Thunderbolt especially if you’re changing to Life Orb. Roost is going to be very important in making sure Zapdos can heal off weaker and/or resisted hits and passive damage (specifically Stealth Rock, Leech Seed and your own Life Orb) and IIRC Life Orb Discharge hits harder than a regular Thunderbolt anyways while still allowing you have that higher paralysis rate for situations where you want a paralysis on a check but Thunder Wave isn’t optimal. Depending on how any of your guys’ games go with this Zapdos, I could see a bulkier U-Turn + Roost set with Discharge and maybe Heat Wave working too if this team needs a central pivot (unfortunately this set lacks Static in Gen 4, but it’s still decent).

The main reason I would keep Protect on Zapdos is for residual healing with Leftovers, but this ultimately seems team dependent and Protect does have utility against Choiced threats that you lose out on with LO Roost so there’s that, too.


Cool team variation no jirachi or kingdra = double based but just out of curiosity, how do you deal with hazards? I imagine some combination of Magnezone trapping Skarmory/Forretress + Taunt Gyarados but I could be wrong.
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since its offensive we dont need too much hazard control... idk didnt notice hazards too much while playing
 
bdt2002 said:
For that Zapdos set you guys were talking about, I would personally slot Roost over Protect and Discharge over Thunderbolt especially if you’re changing to Life Orb. Roost is going to be very important in making sure Zapdos can heal off weaker and/or resisted hits and passive damage (specifically Stealth Rock, Leech Seed and your own Life Orb) and IIRC Life Orb Discharge hits harder than a regular Thunderbolt anyways while still allowing you have that higher paralysis rate for situations where you want a paralysis on a check but Thunder Wave isn’t optimal. Depending on how any of your guys’ games go with this Zapdos, I could see a bulkier U-Turn + Roost set with Discharge and maybe Heat Wave working too if this team needs a central pivot (unfortunately this set lacks Static in Gen 4, but it’s still decent).

The main reason I would keep Protect on Zapdos is for residual healing with Leftovers, but this ultimately seems team dependent and Protect does have utility against Choiced threats that you lose out on with LO Roost so there’s that, too.


Cool team variation no jirachi or kingdra = double based but just out of curiosity, how do you deal with hazards? I imagine some combination of Magnezone trapping Skarmory/Forretress + Taunt Gyarados but I could be wrong.
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In all fairness, I get Protect Zap to scout for any Boom from lead Gross/Zong, but not having Roost on Zap that isn’t choice locked feels too ADV coded.
 
Yo Lifeonenceladus, Joey just posted a video on your RMT! You managed to get him back to playing DPP OU, proud of ya!
 
Any reason you chose Magnezone over Magneton? Since it’s already scarfed I figure Magneton would give you the added bonus of being able to check Dd dragonite and Gyarados.

Dd lead Kingdra is such a cool idea, I see it a lot now and it’s always stressful to deal with
 
sweetlou357 said:
Any reason you chose Magnezone over Magneton? Since it’s already scarfed I figure Magneton would give you the added bonus of being able to check Dd dragonite and Gyarados.

Dd lead Kingdra is such a cool idea, I see it a lot now and it’s always stressful to deal with
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Lucario, offers more power, can act as a 2nd Rachi check, & can kill Scizor more reliably.

Only issue is you def need better speed control, which is why I’ve tweaked this team with Scarf Latias. Also bc Healing Wish support is crucial for DDers
 
Jhall99 said:
Lucario, offers more power, can act as a 2nd Rachi check, & can kill Scizor more reliably.

Only issue is you def need better speed control, which is why I’ve tweaked this team with Scarf Latias. Also bc Healing Wish support is crucial for DDers
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I laddered with this team quite a lot (peaked at #12 without even noticing while I was playing) and definitely agree that this lati is a weak point.

Colbur is funny, but it doesn't exactly flip the TTar matchup. Scarf tar is still outspeeding and 2HKOing with sand, meanwhile you most likely fail to 2HKO even if you manage to +1 surf it on the switch. You're not coming close to 2HKOing a band tar with a little HP bulk. I think the best matchup might be a dd tar, which you have a slightly favorable roll to 2HKO with rocks, making our uncommon upside outcome a +1/1 lati at ~30% health, sans any chip from whatever you switched it in on.

And for what? TTar isn't exactly resilient against this team's waterfalls and meteor mash. Often, the first time I encounter the opposing ttar is when lati comes in. I guess it inhibits a late magnezone sweep, but how often does that happen? It seems like a fools errand to try to make your lati hardened against ttar when you aren't even weak to it or relying on the lati to sweep.

I considered HP fighting over surf. Surf is nice for heatran, but HP fighting isn't that much worse (and heatran usually is either running or booming, anyway). Bonks clef a little harder, too. Problem is, you'd need a lot of SpA investment to make it have a chance to OHKO a zero-bulk tar after rocks. If the ttar has eaten a 'zone tbolt, though, the extra power over surf lets it kill. You lose a speed IV and so would need to re-optimize EVs accepting not competing for those speed ties vs lati, gengar, maybe infernape.

What'd you run exactly? Timid 252/252 with DM/Tbolt/HW/trick?
 
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