wha- oh, i guess i did play this a bit for wcor. i'll take a crack at it and see what i can do.
i think rocks deserves a sus the way monai said, community input is absolutely key and the main reason bw and dpp saw a change so sudden was because of wcor being around the corner, now these formats've had a slight bit more time to marinate and people can take their thoughts in. as for me? ehhh i'd keep rocks banned, mainly cuz rocks are able to, to put it in a word, "skew" the levels of pokemon based on how weak or resistant they are to it, articuno was an example brought by council but i can also see volcarona, yanmega, or charizard, all of them actively hindered by their quad-rock weakness becoming a 50% damage expense just for switching in, where they don't get to do very little, whereas in games where the stones can't be set at all, they get to thrive and often become the main threats for their games, it's a difficult power imbalance and you can't make a pokemon the same level as you'd do without them existing, because if rocks get set up you're playing a 5v6, not fun when you or your opponent gets to click a move at any moment in any turn of the game and it gets to actively demolish your team little by little, stone by stone.
anyways, sleep, something i might need at this point as i am writing this post at 5 in the morning. but my own sleep deprivations aside, let's focus on that.
something that a lot of tiers like to do regarding sleep when it becomes too overtly problematic is to ban the inaccurate/more widely spread ones.
here's a good example: sleep powder is pretty common on a ton of pokemon, rlly good move yk 75% accurate, some people would go as far as to run a wide lens so it becomes 82% all of that is an issue immediately in the adverb followed by an adjective, "pretty common", and now that we've established the issue, let's see how we can come to fix it.
if we think, as a community, that sleep-inducing moves are an issue, i think it's in our best interest to start looking at the least accurate ones, see if they cause issues, and move up the ladder of accuracy until you see it's no longer an issue.
| Moves | Accuracy |
| Yawn | --% (recieves the Drowsy status condition before falling asleep at the end of the next turn) |
| Spore | 100% |
| Dark Void | 80% |
| Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss | 75% |
| Hypnosis | 60% |
| Sing, Grass Whistle | 55% |
| Relic Song | 10% (20% with Serene Grace) |
yawn is an exception here, since it is learned by a wide variety of pokemon. however you don't get affected by sleep from it, you get affected by a completely unique condition exclusive to yawn, so it is clearly a different case.
all of these are worth looking into, this is bw sleep we're talking about, the gen that resets your sleep turns after switching out, so of course sleep will be something that is worth looking into.
the conclusion
the main thing i want ppl to draw from this are the stats from sleep and the argument against rocks, which i don't feel like recalling because it is 6 in the morning. if i were to do this on my own i would
keep stealth rock banned, alongside banning sleep powder, hypnosis, sing, grass whistle, dark void, and maybe yawn. i don't consider any other moves problematic on their own in a vacuum, however things can change as the format progresses. the main idea is we get to keep sleep to only a handful of pokemon:
:smeargle::breloom::amoonguss::parasect: with spore, and
:jynx::meloetta: with their signatures (i kept darkrai out of the list cuz it'd be busted if it was the only mon out of like seven to get a sleep move).
anyway i think that's it, spoke ab this mainly with
As de Corazones so if you have any complaints you know who to talk to.
