Agreed. However, Garde doesn't have to lock itself onto one move to be statistically superior to Tapu Lele, which is a huge boon in its favor. Additionally, Pixilate Hyper Voice is crazy ngl, kills most non-resists. Overall, while Gardevoir-Mega doesn't effectively replace Tapu Lele, it has a niche.
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Resource National Dex Viability Rankings (Post Tera Ban)
- Thread starter Kyo
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more importantly Lele blocks priority on both sides meaning Gardevoir's got better synergy with strong priority users so it definitely deserves more than C-
Main Points
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: :Diancie-Mega:
These 2 kinda sit above everything else imo, good on HO, offense, bo, and balance. Every team needs to account for these 2 as they are critical breakers within the meta. Oger kinda does it all, sd sets are good at wallbreaking, spikes turn knock are great for making progress against every style of team. Both of them together also form a pretty OP offense core, can branch off into a lot of variations with these 2. Diancie is kinda just the do it all wallbreaker. Theres like 3-4 mons off the top of my head that can check this thing consistently, works on every style, nothing much to add. IDRC if they are S- or A+ but for the purpose of this vr they sit above A+
:Iron Crown: :Melmetal:
Im pretty high on both of these guys, crown being a good glue on offense so you dont get blown by scarf lele and diancie + gives you some momentum. Kinda duds vs glis and lu so im giving it only a B. Melmetal is pretty underused i think. Toxtect was better than i expected in testing. Vs offensive teams not many guys want to take a DIB so you can tox on their lando/zap/other guys to clear the way for something else.
:Sableye-Mega: :Dondozo: :Blissey: & :Clodsire:
Stall is a B- rank in general rn maybe more. A lot of poorly built teams just fold vs it. Clodsire specifically kinda glues it together and is mandatory. Checks a majority of threats like diancie,tornt, ghold and can lay hazs for stall. I think theres some balances it can fit on since I dont think its the most passive thing ever.
Other short notes, cress is good between cm and lunar dance sets, thundyt is busted on webs, C+ is kinda just a cluster of usable mons that have niches within the meta so take that lightly
Overall I think the meta is stable but its hard to create consistent new styles
YOU'RE UNDER SPELLS PEOPLE! We giving pity rankings to mons who don't deserve it
:kartana: to unranked
This guy just sucks. Grass coverage just sucks since flying types are so good. Scarf is unplayable, and sd sets get packed by its regular checks, and its slow asf. Free eats for za
:lopunny-mega: to C
A-??????? Ts is ass. Sealoo team got yall tricked but lop is just a za and contact punish victim. Wasting the mega slot for a mon who gets naturally checked by basically every team is nonsense.
:manaphy: to C
Be honest, when do yall be using ts?? Its not even mandatory on rain, which is already a mid style. Lets not act like the non rain sweeper sets are good, woger ended this guy.
:urshifu-rapid-strike: to C+
Choices sets are legit bad. They have nothing over zama and get super fried by birds + cress + mola + gking + woger + ghold. Only good sets are sd pads but those are fishy.
:ferrothorn: to B-
He’s NOT tuff anymore. Out of all the bulky grasses, its by far the worst at beating woger consistently. Spikes is just not as rare of a tool as it once was, and being free eats for like half the offensive metagame. Giving a free sub to torn, zama, and volc, and free setup to ghold and (often) gambit is legit cox.
:slowbro: to C
NOBODY USING HIM FOR A REASON (besides might drago cox team). When is the last time you really thought slowbro’s traits were worth using over mola or gking. Being a bulky water weak to dark, ghost AND uturn is truly ass. Future sight and port don’t make up for being a physdef water that loses to hamu and ceru.
Ok guys, time to make another proper nom AND break the VR tierlist trend.
Today, I am nominating a really underrated Pokémon that honestly deserves to be higher.
One that can tank hits while sweeping.
One that is my all-time favourite :fairy:-type.
One with access to the coveted Scald.
This Pokémon is... Primarina!
:primarina: from C --> B-
Alright, you may be thinking, "Penguin, you're only doing this so that ElectraineHeart will like your post and give you all the badges in the world!"
Why yes, I would love it if that happened, but Primarina is a genuinely great mon that doesn't get enough usage in National Dex. So today, the brand-new, OverpoweredPenguin-original series that was totally, 100% hyped by everyone on the planet, the one everyone was waiting for, National Dex VR Ranting with Penguin, premieres!
"HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
-Mario
Alright, let me talk turkey (speaking of turkey, yall better get some for Thanksgiving within the next 3 weeks, or for Canadians, ya shoulda gotten some 2 weeks ago XD) and start my yapping.
*deep breath*
Primarina... has so much more packed into it, far more than other C-tier mon. It has access to the extremely useful and coveted Scald, a deceptively strong stat spread (80/74/74/126/116/60, to be exact), and a suprisingly deep movepool. It can tank hits while threatening sweeps of its own via Calm Mind. It has reliable recovery in Draining Kiss, the 51st highest SpA of all the mon in the tier (which is also the highest of all the starters), and of course respectable bulk. Sure, it loses to :Ogerpon-Wellspring:, but everything loses to that mf, so ignore that for now. And yes, 60 Speed is a bad Speed tier, but :Primarina:'s good bulk and :water: :fairy: typing remedy that. Despite also competing with :tapu-fini: due to their similar stats, both having access to Scald, and same typing, Primarina doesn't have Taunt, which, while it loses some utility, lets it dedicate a slot to Substitute and thus set up against threats like non-Substitute :volcarona:, :choice-specs: :tapu-lele:, and more.
Alr, think that's enough calcs, now onto a set that I personally use:
:sm/primarina:
Primarina (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 192 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic Noise
- Calm Mind
192 HP gives it an odd HP value to take less chip damage, 60 Spe lets it outspeed Corviknight, and max SpA lets it murder as many things as possible. Psychic Noise lets it stop recovery moves from healing the user, making significant progress even against the toughest special walls while ignoring Substitutes and being Primarina's strongest move against Toxapex.
Alr that's a very brief explanation, let's go on to calcs.
Conclusion
Overall, Primarina is an underestimated, overlooked Pokémon that can do much more than a C tier mon, and it definitely deserves to be ranked higher. While it is rightfully overshadowed by higher-tiered mon, it still should be considered for a spot on your team nonetheless due to its great stats and Scald.
Thank you for reading this, it took far too long to write, and I hope you have a nice day!
Today, I am nominating a really underrated Pokémon that honestly deserves to be higher.
One that can tank hits while sweeping.
One that is my all-time favourite :fairy:-type.
One with access to the coveted Scald.
This Pokémon is... Primarina!
:primarina: from C --> B-
Alright, you may be thinking, "Penguin, you're only doing this so that ElectraineHeart will like your post and give you all the badges in the world!"
Why yes, I would love it if that happened, but Primarina is a genuinely great mon that doesn't get enough usage in National Dex. So today, the brand-new, OverpoweredPenguin-original series that was totally, 100% hyped by everyone on the planet, the one everyone was waiting for, National Dex VR Ranting with Penguin, premieres!
"HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
-Mario
*deep breath*
Primarina... has so much more packed into it, far more than other C-tier mon. It has access to the extremely useful and coveted Scald, a deceptively strong stat spread (80/74/74/126/116/60, to be exact), and a suprisingly deep movepool. It can tank hits while threatening sweeps of its own via Calm Mind. It has reliable recovery in Draining Kiss, the 51st highest SpA of all the mon in the tier (which is also the highest of all the starters), and of course respectable bulk. Sure, it loses to :Ogerpon-Wellspring:, but everything loses to that mf, so ignore that for now. And yes, 60 Speed is a bad Speed tier, but :Primarina:'s good bulk and :water: :fairy: typing remedy that. Despite also competing with :tapu-fini: due to their similar stats, both having access to Scald, and same typing, Primarina doesn't have Taunt, which, while it loses some utility, lets it dedicate a slot to Substitute and thus set up against threats like non-Substitute :volcarona:, :choice-specs: :tapu-lele:, and more.
VS. :volcarona:
252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 100-118 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 63.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 302-356 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
VS. :choice-specs: :tapu-lele:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 253-298 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 186-219 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(What those two calcs mean, is that if Lele switches in, it gets 2HKOed at +2, and while its Psyshock would 2HKO Primarina back, the Substitute blocks that big hit.)
VS. :ROCKIUM-Z: :ZAMAZENTA:
+1 0 SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 174-206 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Primarina: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Rockium Z Stone Edge, while NeverUsed [pardon the pun], only 2HKOes Primarina, and then again, it's only single-use lmao)
VS. :diancie-mega:
+1 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 222-264 (92.1 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
28 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Primarina: 109-130 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS. :choice-specs: :raging-bolt:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raging Bolt: 288-342 (73.6 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(The funny part is, Primarina heals off slightly more than the amount damaged, 59.3-70.6% of its HP to be exact, and if the Substitute is up, it takes no damage at all XD)
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Prim still heals off a majority of that damage, while 2HKOing Raging Bolt back!)
VS. :slowking-galar:
+2 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 96-114 (26.3 - 31.3%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Even univested, Primarina still always 3HKOes Slowking-Galar at +2, while its Sludge Bomb barely breaks Primarina's Substitute!)
252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 100-118 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 63.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 302-356 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
VS. :choice-specs: :tapu-lele:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 253-298 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 186-219 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(What those two calcs mean, is that if Lele switches in, it gets 2HKOed at +2, and while its Psyshock would 2HKO Primarina back, the Substitute blocks that big hit.)
VS. :ROCKIUM-Z: :ZAMAZENTA:
+1 0 SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 174-206 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Primarina: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Rockium Z Stone Edge, while NeverUsed [pardon the pun], only 2HKOes Primarina, and then again, it's only single-use lmao)
VS. :diancie-mega:
+1 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 222-264 (92.1 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
28 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Primarina: 109-130 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS. :choice-specs: :raging-bolt:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raging Bolt: 288-342 (73.6 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(The funny part is, Primarina heals off slightly more than the amount damaged, 59.3-70.6% of its HP to be exact, and if the Substitute is up, it takes no damage at all XD)
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Prim still heals off a majority of that damage, while 2HKOing Raging Bolt back!)
VS. :slowking-galar:
+2 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 96-114 (26.3 - 31.3%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Even univested, Primarina still always 3HKOes Slowking-Galar at +2, while its Sludge Bomb barely breaks Primarina's Substitute!)
Alr, think that's enough calcs, now onto a set that I personally use:
:sm/primarina:
Primarina (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 192 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic Noise
- Calm Mind
192 HP gives it an odd HP value to take less chip damage, 60 Spe lets it outspeed Corviknight, and max SpA lets it murder as many things as possible. Psychic Noise lets it stop recovery moves from healing the user, making significant progress even against the toughest special walls while ignoring Substitutes and being Primarina's strongest move against Toxapex.
Alr that's a very brief explanation, let's go on to calcs.
VS. :VOLCARONA:
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 408-480 (131.1 - 154.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. +1 192 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 100-118 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS. :tapu-lele:
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 186-220 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 192 HP / 4 Def Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 217-256 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Lele can't switch in.)
VS. :rockium-z: :zamazenta:
252 Atk Zamazenta Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 192 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 237-279 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 236-278 (72.6 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (50.7-59.8% recovered)
VS. :diancie-mega:
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diancie-Mega: 390-458 (161.8 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Diancie-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 192 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 211-249 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS. :CHOICE-SPECS: :RAGING-BOLT:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. +2 192 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 222-264 (63.6 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 390-458 (99.7 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
VS. :SLOWKING-GALAR:
+2 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 408-480 (131.1 - 154.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. +1 192 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 100-118 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS. :tapu-lele:
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 186-220 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 192 HP / 4 Def Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 217-256 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Lele can't switch in.)
VS. :rockium-z: :zamazenta:
252 Atk Zamazenta Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 192 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 237-279 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 236-278 (72.6 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (50.7-59.8% recovered)
VS. :diancie-mega:
+1 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Diancie-Mega: 390-458 (161.8 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Diancie-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 192 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 211-249 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS. :CHOICE-SPECS: :RAGING-BOLT:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. +2 192 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 222-264 (63.6 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 390-458 (99.7 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
VS. :SLOWKING-GALAR:
+2 252+ SpA Primarina Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
Conclusion
Overall, Primarina is an underestimated, overlooked Pokémon that can do much more than a C tier mon, and it definitely deserves to be ranked higher. While it is rightfully overshadowed by higher-tiered mon, it still should be considered for a spot on your team nonetheless due to its great stats and Scald.
Thank you for reading this, it took far too long to write, and I hope you have a nice day!
Just to clarify, this ranking is based on consistency and factors the efficacy of mons on their most suitable teams in relation to their alternatives. For example, heatran is low on this list because slotting a defensive steel type that fails to check attackers like mdia and kyu usually leads to a flawed team, and shedinja is ranked abysmally due to its inconsistency. This is also based solely on tournament play, so anything invalidated by good prep is lower.
:zapdos:- What separates zapdos from other defensive birds is its ability to act not only as a hard punish to contact attackers but also function as a win condition with volt switch spam. Hurricane and heat wave break down every ground in the tier barring gliscor and lu, forcing the opponent to avoid getting full value out of those mons. It's been shown time and again; when the ground type dies, zapdos wins
:tornadus-therian:- Most of the playerbase is tapped in by now but NP tornt is broken. Elite speed tier, insane immediate power, and great stallbreaking potential with sub/taunt
:gliscor:- I've posted my explanation for this already
:tyranitar-mega:- Rips through stall and also has incredible synergy with zapdos; nearly all of its common switch ins are contact vulnerable physical attackers. Low kick trades favorably into lu and treads, and pursuit picks gking among others. Singlehandedly tearing through stall without compromising against other teams is also huge
:hydrapple:- Been dominating the tournament scene lately, and it's legit. Awesome defensive utility+longevity combined with the insane breaking power of a +2 devastating drake is no joke
:clefable:- Super underrated on balance and bo. Hard punish to opposing fat teams that rely on hazards+knock+status spam, and it offers nice defensive utility vs ho by trading into tusk, nite, val, etc. CM flame clef+pursuit reliably lures and picks off ghold, which is a fantastic trade for bulky teams
Saw everyone else doing this so thought I'd throw in my 2 cents;
Entirely subjective personal vrs from my experiences building and playing natdex recently for various tours. There's obviously some wriggle room with ranking with a lot of these, but in general these are my opinions on how the tier shapes up compared to each other. (NOT in order within subranks)
Quickfire noms to go hand in hand, only gonna mention more significant jumps in my estimation (probably 2 subranks as opposed to 1), or the very big things at the top of the meta
Entirely subjective personal vrs from my experiences building and playing natdex recently for various tours. There's obviously some wriggle room with ranking with a lot of these, but in general these are my opinions on how the tier shapes up compared to each other. (NOT in order within subranks)
Quickfire noms to go hand in hand, only gonna mention more significant jumps in my estimation (probably 2 subranks as opposed to 1), or the very big things at the top of the meta
:zamazenta:(Best mon in the tier)
Pretty undisputed as the best mon in the tier right now (next best thing is Dengo but Zama is pretty clearly number 1). Usage stats don't lie, its remained the most used mon across tournaments for ages now and its easy to see why with how easily splashable it is on most teams + its incredible set variety
:ogerpon-wellspring: :diancie-mega:to S-
Having these in the same rank as Ghold feels weird, but having Ghold with Zama in S rank felt more inaccurate than this. Both are obviously great mons and a noticeable bit ahead of the A+ ranks, Diancie in particular has picked up even more with its very limited real checks and Molas decline.
:kyurem: :corviknight:to A
I know these are only 1 subrank, but all of these guys are really good right now, especially Corv. Corvs defensive capabilities as a proper defensive steel aren't really done by anything else as well as it, especially with its ability to decently check common mons like Chomp Tusk etc. Kyurem also feels really strong, it does what its always done in just auto-farming some matchups, and it feels teams have become more complacent into it recently.
:ferrothorn:to A-
Pretty much echoing whats been said before, just not to such an extreme extent. It is definitely the worst Grass-type Woger check and fodder for Ghold to set up on, but it still gets good value between its ability to Spike on a lot of things using its defensive profile and ability to check things like Lele and stuff well.
Pretty undisputed as the best mon in the tier right now (next best thing is Dengo but Zama is pretty clearly number 1). Usage stats don't lie, its remained the most used mon across tournaments for ages now and its easy to see why with how easily splashable it is on most teams + its incredible set variety
:ogerpon-wellspring: :diancie-mega:to S-
Having these in the same rank as Ghold feels weird, but having Ghold with Zama in S rank felt more inaccurate than this. Both are obviously great mons and a noticeable bit ahead of the A+ ranks, Diancie in particular has picked up even more with its very limited real checks and Molas decline.
:kyurem: :corviknight:to A
I know these are only 1 subrank, but all of these guys are really good right now, especially Corv. Corvs defensive capabilities as a proper defensive steel aren't really done by anything else as well as it, especially with its ability to decently check common mons like Chomp Tusk etc. Kyurem also feels really strong, it does what its always done in just auto-farming some matchups, and it feels teams have become more complacent into it recently.
:ferrothorn:to A-
Pretty much echoing whats been said before, just not to such an extreme extent. It is definitely the worst Grass-type Woger check and fodder for Ghold to set up on, but it still gets good value between its ability to Spike on a lot of things using its defensive profile and ability to check things like Lele and stuff well.
:cresselia:to B+
One of the biggest revelations of recent times, between its Lunar Dance and Calm Mind sets, Cresselia has become a real force to be reckoned with. Its defensive capabilities + access to Twave and most notably Lunar Dance make it a huge addition to a lot of more trade heavy HO teams (especially the new Glimm stuff floating around), while Calm Mind Z sets on bulkier structures can shred apart unprepared teams.
:glimmora: to B+
This may seem a bit drastic (especially given I was calling for UR Glimm a few months ago), but recent waves of Glimm HO have just been really good and consistent. Being able to near guarantee Tspikes and SR while also keeping hazards off the field is always great, and with bulkier Red Card sets becoming more popular its very easy for Glimm to force poisons and chip early on.
:hydrapple: to B
Really good right now. Not only has it found use on what is probably the tiers best stall right now, but also continues to see uses on fats. Its one of the premier checks to Woger and such, while also being a very threatening breaker with Nasty Plot and Z.
:lopunny-mega: to B+ :urshifu-rapid-strike: to B :iron valiant: to B-
Three musketeers of outclassed fighting types (less to some extent for Val as its primarily special, but that mon blows right now).
Lopunny has fared the best out of the 3, double prio sets still have merit into more offensive structures that Zama cannot really do, but its role is generally done a lot better, with Zama either not being hazard weak or packing a bigger punch thanks to an item like Z.
Scarf Shifu is AWFUL right now, you need to get every 50/50 right to do anything whatsoever and its walled by too much to really ever be in a situation it can clean games. Scarf sets lowk just switch in to a singular Kowtow and then do jack for the rest of the game. The only reason I can see this being usable ever is with SD sets, which can be pretty cool at farming some bulkier builds.
Valiant in general is just pretty bad, idk what else to say about it. Theres probably cool stuff to be done with it in terms of SD sets, but the traditional CM and Specs sets really don't do it for me right now, they feel super easy to play around most the time.
:clodsire: :blissey: :dondozo: :sableye-mega: to B-
Stall, as far as fishes go, is a very effective fish right now. I talked about it in more depth in my metagame discussion post, but its win rates in tours recently have been really high and it can punish a lot of poorly built / unprepared teams VERY effectively. Arguably it could be a subrank higher, I do think this is the best place stall has been in for a while in terms of actually being able to secure matchups efficiently and not just getting smacked by most well built teams.
One of the biggest revelations of recent times, between its Lunar Dance and Calm Mind sets, Cresselia has become a real force to be reckoned with. Its defensive capabilities + access to Twave and most notably Lunar Dance make it a huge addition to a lot of more trade heavy HO teams (especially the new Glimm stuff floating around), while Calm Mind Z sets on bulkier structures can shred apart unprepared teams.
:glimmora: to B+
This may seem a bit drastic (especially given I was calling for UR Glimm a few months ago), but recent waves of Glimm HO have just been really good and consistent. Being able to near guarantee Tspikes and SR while also keeping hazards off the field is always great, and with bulkier Red Card sets becoming more popular its very easy for Glimm to force poisons and chip early on.
:hydrapple: to B
Really good right now. Not only has it found use on what is probably the tiers best stall right now, but also continues to see uses on fats. Its one of the premier checks to Woger and such, while also being a very threatening breaker with Nasty Plot and Z.
:lopunny-mega: to B+ :urshifu-rapid-strike: to B :iron valiant: to B-
Three musketeers of outclassed fighting types (less to some extent for Val as its primarily special, but that mon blows right now).
Lopunny has fared the best out of the 3, double prio sets still have merit into more offensive structures that Zama cannot really do, but its role is generally done a lot better, with Zama either not being hazard weak or packing a bigger punch thanks to an item like Z.
Scarf Shifu is AWFUL right now, you need to get every 50/50 right to do anything whatsoever and its walled by too much to really ever be in a situation it can clean games. Scarf sets lowk just switch in to a singular Kowtow and then do jack for the rest of the game. The only reason I can see this being usable ever is with SD sets, which can be pretty cool at farming some bulkier builds.
Valiant in general is just pretty bad, idk what else to say about it. Theres probably cool stuff to be done with it in terms of SD sets, but the traditional CM and Specs sets really don't do it for me right now, they feel super easy to play around most the time.
:clodsire: :blissey: :dondozo: :sableye-mega: to B-
Stall, as far as fishes go, is a very effective fish right now. I talked about it in more depth in my metagame discussion post, but its win rates in tours recently have been really high and it can punish a lot of poorly built / unprepared teams VERY effectively. Arguably it could be a subrank higher, I do think this is the best place stall has been in for a while in terms of actually being able to secure matchups efficiently and not just getting smacked by most well built teams.
:moltres-galar: to C+
Only one subrank, but I think it probably would be one of the best mons in C+. While pretty one dimensional, Fly Z double dance can become absurdly hard to deal with when behind screens with its high natural bulk, and it has some results to back it up. Very good mon on HO rn and I'd love to see it get its flowers.
Most changes in C ranks were only 1 subrank, so just some more general points:
- Fullsun and Rain are probably equal footing right now, Arch drops further because idt its mandatory on rain, and I believe both sun setters are relatively equal footing. (I got blasted by a Qwil recently that dude is broken in the right situations)
- Some of the mons I labelled as bad were pretty harsh (Mgard, Tini, Gren) and all could very easily be C- in my eyes
- On the topic of UR mons its time to stop defending Washtom and Kart. Washtom was probably heading towards UR anw, but Kart being in C is a travesty, its basically unusable.
- I couldn't find Mdoom or Tang sprites, Mdoom probablyyyy deserves to be UR, Tang could stay C-
- Both Webs setters are equal footing at LEAST (I'm still of the opinion Bee is a better setter)
-Free Rilla and Free Mtias. Both are pretty tuff.
Only one subrank, but I think it probably would be one of the best mons in C+. While pretty one dimensional, Fly Z double dance can become absurdly hard to deal with when behind screens with its high natural bulk, and it has some results to back it up. Very good mon on HO rn and I'd love to see it get its flowers.
Most changes in C ranks were only 1 subrank, so just some more general points:
- Fullsun and Rain are probably equal footing right now, Arch drops further because idt its mandatory on rain, and I believe both sun setters are relatively equal footing. (I got blasted by a Qwil recently that dude is broken in the right situations)
- Some of the mons I labelled as bad were pretty harsh (Mgard, Tini, Gren) and all could very easily be C- in my eyes
- On the topic of UR mons its time to stop defending Washtom and Kart. Washtom was probably heading towards UR anw, but Kart being in C is a travesty, its basically unusable.
- I couldn't find Mdoom or Tang sprites, Mdoom probablyyyy deserves to be UR, Tang could stay C-
- Both Webs setters are equal footing at LEAST (I'm still of the opinion Bee is a better setter)
-Free Rilla and Free Mtias. Both are pretty tuff.
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Some mons I wanted to highlight:
:zamazenta::gholdengo::ogerpon-wellspring::gliscor:
Tier virtually revolves around them, they always pull their weight, and they run through underprepared teams, which is brutal considering how much set variety these guys have.
:garchomp:
Scale shot sets especially are super consistent and dismantle a lot of teams while Z and tank sets are still scary in their own right.
Tier virtually revolves around them, they always pull their weight, and they run through underprepared teams, which is brutal considering how much set variety these guys have.
:garchomp:
Scale shot sets especially are super consistent and dismantle a lot of teams while Z and tank sets are still scary in their own right.
:kyurem:
Still difficult to prepare for and very restrictive in building with sub letting it take advantage of a lot of defensive guys well.
:latios-mega::raging-bolt:
These mons have really good consistency in builder and in practice when played correctly
:corviknight:
I hate using this mon because taking full rocks damage + u-turn being super exploitable by rocky helmet or staying in and attacking means this mon struggles to check a lot but it's hard to overlook the value and momentum Corv gets.
Still difficult to prepare for and very restrictive in building with sub letting it take advantage of a lot of defensive guys well.
:latios-mega::raging-bolt:
These mons have really good consistency in builder and in practice when played correctly
:corviknight:
I hate using this mon because taking full rocks damage + u-turn being super exploitable by rocky helmet or staying in and attacking means this mon struggles to check a lot but it's hard to overlook the value and momentum Corv gets.
:weezing-galar:
Used this mon a decent bit and there are some matchups where this mon just completely shuts down your opponents team, cripping the offensive threats and guaranteeing easy progress into alo/pex/gliscor, but being so passive into Ghold is pretty rough.
:skarmory:
Lotta bulkier teams really appreciate having a Corviknight that gives up offensive pressure in exchange for being able to stick around and spike long-term.
Used this mon a decent bit and there are some matchups where this mon just completely shuts down your opponents team, cripping the offensive threats and guaranteeing easy progress into alo/pex/gliscor, but being so passive into Ghold is pretty rough.
:skarmory:
Lotta bulkier teams really appreciate having a Corviknight that gives up offensive pressure in exchange for being able to stick around and spike long-term.
:glimmora:
Should probably be higher lowkey but Meteor Beams sets have always felt too slow to me in practice and lead sets feel fine.
:medicham-mega:
I used to spam this guy trying to make him work but I discovered you have to invest so much support in builder because you're using a fighting with no defense utility who has to pick a top tier to lose to based on your coverage and then when you finally load it up you have to get every turn right or molt/zap just threatens to make you useless anyways or you just get chipped down way too easily.
Should probably be higher lowkey but Meteor Beams sets have always felt too slow to me in practice and lead sets feel fine.
:medicham-mega:
I used to spam this guy trying to make him work but I discovered you have to invest so much support in builder because you're using a fighting with no defense utility who has to pick a top tier to lose to based on your coverage and then when you finally load it up you have to get every turn right or molt/zap just threatens to make you useless anyways or you just get chipped down way too easily.
Well given I am bored, and I REALLY have nothing better to do, I wantzed to nominate two Pokemon who I think deserve some changes in their Viability stance:
From A- to A!
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads:
In my time, playing with Iron Treads, I think Iron Treads should step a lil' bit higher in the viability ranking, being ranked A. I see Treads as equal to Tusk to be honest: they bot are Ground types that use Rapid Spin, both use Stealth Rock (almost) always, have an ability that can only be activated by sun and electricx terrain respectively and can serve as a physical or special wall respectively. If you take a look into treads, it really isnt that different of how Great Tusk works, the only differences are that secontyping: Tusk is part Fighting and Treads is part Steel. While Treads has less HP and physically weaker by not much than Great Tusk,it IS slightly specially bulkier AND faster, which makes Treads MORE wanted than Tusk sometimes. Also the Ground/Steel typing is amazing: how do you think Excadrill was OU for the past, huh? This typing makes it resistent to Pókemon such as Tapu Koko and Raging Boklt, while not that GREAT of Pókemon, those are Pókemon you shoukd look out for. But that's not it: depending also on the set, Iron Treads can be a check or something that can go against Pókemon: Air Ballon makes you able to screw with Garchomp and Dragonite (Both who are great Pókemon, ranked A+), Specially Defensive and AV can also make you go against Mega Diancie and kill it with either STAB Earthquake (and if you are crazy enough, STAB Heavy Slam or Iron Head) and AV makes you able to tank Focus Blast from Chice Scarf Tapu Lele and Gholdengo. As for last, we have the Lead set, which makes Iron Treads have Booster Energy, making it having its speed boosted by 1.5. That gives it a great advantage to set up Stealth Rock and if you want, you can even make it special attacking, you can have a quite fast suicidal lead. Overall, I think treads should be ranked as high as Great Tusk, because Treads has factors that make it par to it in sense of role and efficience.
From A to A-!
:Terapagos-Terastal: Terapagos:
Don't get me wrong, I think Terapagos is awesome and a really great addition to the tier after the ban of Thera stalization (Thank god!), however that dpoesn't erase the fact that it stuggles quite a bit in the metagame. Allow me to explain: as a set, terapagos normally has the Rapid Spin set, which consists of STAB Rapid Spin and Terastar Storm and Coverage as of Ice Beam, Flamethrower or Earth Power. There COULD be some CM sets in Hyper Offensive teams, but overall I feel like Terapagos falls flat insome categories. At first, while it has the awesome ability of Tera Shield, which makes the first attack not very effective at full HP. However, what makes it fall flat are that its not exactly fast by this generation and also my MAIN problem is the 4MMS. Normallly, outside of STAB Rapid Spin and Terastar Storm, you use Ice Beam for Gliscor and Landorus-Therian and Flamethrower for Gholdengo, Kingambit and Ferrothorn. However it leaves it completely flat against Heatran, Ceruledge and Pecharunt. If you would want to have Earth Power, you would want to cut Flamthrower out, which makes you weak to Ferrothorn and Air Baloon Kingambit/Gholdengo. If you go cutting Ice Beam off, then you aren't an answer to Garchomp, Gliscor, Dragonite and Landorus-Therian anymore. If you are THAT despertae, you COULD just go no Terastar Storm, but you'd have no STAB Move meaning you'd lack power. Speaking of power, another con of Terapagos is, while its bulky in its merit, lacks power to put holes in teams. You could run Modest, however you won't outrun Zamazenta. Overall with all Terapagos' merits, it doesn't exactly cover everything. Its worth mentioning you really want to keeep coverage overall, meaning you wont have space for somthing like Stealth Rock of Toxic. Almost forgot to say, but normal, although not a horrible type at all, it lacks of resistances and you're neutral to everything.
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads:
In my time, playing with Iron Treads, I think Iron Treads should step a lil' bit higher in the viability ranking, being ranked A. I see Treads as equal to Tusk to be honest: they bot are Ground types that use Rapid Spin, both use Stealth Rock (almost) always, have an ability that can only be activated by sun and electricx terrain respectively and can serve as a physical or special wall respectively. If you take a look into treads, it really isnt that different of how Great Tusk works, the only differences are that secontyping: Tusk is part Fighting and Treads is part Steel. While Treads has less HP and physically weaker by not much than Great Tusk,it IS slightly specially bulkier AND faster, which makes Treads MORE wanted than Tusk sometimes. Also the Ground/Steel typing is amazing: how do you think Excadrill was OU for the past, huh? This typing makes it resistent to Pókemon such as Tapu Koko and Raging Boklt, while not that GREAT of Pókemon, those are Pókemon you shoukd look out for. But that's not it: depending also on the set, Iron Treads can be a check or something that can go against Pókemon: Air Ballon makes you able to screw with Garchomp and Dragonite (Both who are great Pókemon, ranked A+), Specially Defensive and AV can also make you go against Mega Diancie and kill it with either STAB Earthquake (and if you are crazy enough, STAB Heavy Slam or Iron Head) and AV makes you able to tank Focus Blast from Chice Scarf Tapu Lele and Gholdengo. As for last, we have the Lead set, which makes Iron Treads have Booster Energy, making it having its speed boosted by 1.5. That gives it a great advantage to set up Stealth Rock and if you want, you can even make it special attacking, you can have a quite fast suicidal lead. Overall, I think treads should be ranked as high as Great Tusk, because Treads has factors that make it par to it in sense of role and efficience.
:Terapagos-Terastal: Terapagos:
Don't get me wrong, I think Terapagos is awesome and a really great addition to the tier after the ban of Thera stalization (Thank god!), however that dpoesn't erase the fact that it stuggles quite a bit in the metagame. Allow me to explain: as a set, terapagos normally has the Rapid Spin set, which consists of STAB Rapid Spin and Terastar Storm and Coverage as of Ice Beam, Flamethrower or Earth Power. There COULD be some CM sets in Hyper Offensive teams, but overall I feel like Terapagos falls flat insome categories. At first, while it has the awesome ability of Tera Shield, which makes the first attack not very effective at full HP. However, what makes it fall flat are that its not exactly fast by this generation and also my MAIN problem is the 4MMS. Normallly, outside of STAB Rapid Spin and Terastar Storm, you use Ice Beam for Gliscor and Landorus-Therian and Flamethrower for Gholdengo, Kingambit and Ferrothorn. However it leaves it completely flat against Heatran, Ceruledge and Pecharunt. If you would want to have Earth Power, you would want to cut Flamthrower out, which makes you weak to Ferrothorn and Air Baloon Kingambit/Gholdengo. If you go cutting Ice Beam off, then you aren't an answer to Garchomp, Gliscor, Dragonite and Landorus-Therian anymore. If you are THAT despertae, you COULD just go no Terastar Storm, but you'd have no STAB Move meaning you'd lack power. Speaking of power, another con of Terapagos is, while its bulky in its merit, lacks power to put holes in teams. You could run Modest, however you won't outrun Zamazenta. Overall with all Terapagos' merits, it doesn't exactly cover everything. Its worth mentioning you really want to keeep coverage overall, meaning you wont have space for somthing like Stealth Rock of Toxic. Almost forgot to say, but normal, although not a horrible type at all, it lacks of resistances and you're neutral to everything.
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