Cherrim won't magically become viable because Garchomp isn't in the game.
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SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword & Shield Pre-Release SPOILERS - Check Post 2!
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Similar question: do we know for sure if all relevant items, such as choice items life orb lefties etc, will be present?
You talk as if current gen is the only way to play. If 800+ pokemon are so important to you, you can play on the numerous older-generation ladders or the proposed national-dex OU. Remember that smogon tiers are entirely contrived; lower tiers only exist because the pokedex had expanded to the point that there are 400+ garbage (from a competitive perspective) pokemon. There was a LOT of cruft in the full set of pokemon available in gen 7.
After the fun I had making extensive use of the Mobile PC in Let's Go, I'm going with a similar formula here.
That means a rotating team composed of:
- Intelleon
- Corviknight
- Drednaw
- Coalossal (depends - I feel it will evolve by trading)
- Appletun (or maybe Flapple if it's a branched evolution)
- Sirfetch'd
- Cramorant
- Toxtricity
- Sandaconda
- Duraludon
- Dracozolt (depends on potential exclusivity)
- Arctozolt (depends on potential exclusivity)
- Dragapult
- Eternatus (if it can be caught before the post-game)
LIST OF USUM OU VIABILITY STILL AVAILABLE:
S: Toxapex
A+: Ferrothorn
A: Rotom-W A-: Clefable, Pelipper, Reuniclus, Tyranitar, excadril
B+: Gastrodon, Weavile
B: Gyarados, Hawlucha, Hippowdon, Hydreigon
B-: Ditto, Kommo-o, Mamoswine, Pyukumuku, Quagsire
C+: Bisharp
C: Crawdaunt, Gengar, Mantine, Mimykyu
C-: Araquanid, Avalugg, Ribombee, Seismetoad
OU is gonna be a lotttt different to say the least. One thing I see is that sand is prolly going to be quite powerful since exca, Ttar, and hippo are all still around.
S: Toxapex
A+: Ferrothorn
A: Rotom-W A-: Clefable, Pelipper, Reuniclus, Tyranitar, excadril
B+: Gastrodon, Weavile
B: Gyarados, Hawlucha, Hippowdon, Hydreigon
B-: Ditto, Kommo-o, Mamoswine, Pyukumuku, Quagsire
C+: Bisharp
C: Crawdaunt, Gengar, Mantine, Mimykyu
C-: Araquanid, Avalugg, Ribombee, Seismetoad
OU is gonna be a lotttt different to say the least. One thing I see is that sand is prolly going to be quite powerful since exca, Ttar, and hippo are all still around.
Viable is such a lose term though. In 2019 VGC, Cherrim had a niche alongside Groudon, giving 50% boost to Atk and Sp.def thanks to Flower Gift.
So it's actually getting even worse of a shitmon since Groudon got cut
So the sword and shield are items that can be attached?
Cinderace, Corviknight, Copperajah, Sirfetch'd and two of Centiskorch, Coalossal, Dragapult and
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So, what exclusive are there, other than cover and the few officially revled?
That is just the thing. OU wasn't bloated with filler mons. They were in lower tiers. With 400+ mons alone in the entire game, entire communities here on Smogon are just gonna vanish. Can Ubers be considered a tier anymore, with reasonably only 4 mons naturally inhabiting it and no AG because of Mega Rayquaza's disappearance? PU and ZU is dead and maybe other tiers too. What about the years invested into those communities? Heck, the leaders / moderators are just gonna exist now?
Didn't PS! confirm that they would be doing a "national dex" format?
You all are doing thoughts about what we know until now of Pokemon, but, now we have this Dynamax versions. How do you think that it will affect to the meta or your thoughts?
An Ubers tier will exist regardless of the actual amount of mons, we have 6 just about confirmed (legendary trio, aegis, shadow taggers) and there will inevitably be some OU bans. Just look to older tier gens to see how they form. AG would still exist as a no clause tier
also, gen 3, the most comparable gen, has a ZU and PU. They’re wacky, but they exist. At worst these formats will lose tournament representation but they won’t cease to exist
Again, smogon is not beholden to the decisions of gamefreak. Smogon tiers and rulesets are themselves arbitrary definitions not found in the base games. If a 400 pokemon game is going to be as disruptive to the community as you say, then there is no reason to maintain the same restriction on the total number of pokemon available.
Personally, I think it is great that they are cutting the number of pokemon down. There was a ton of filler pokemon that were both bad competitievly and uninteresting from a design perspective. If you look at actual usage stats, you'll see that OU is by far the most popular tier, and orders of magnitude above the next closest of UU and Ubers. Aggregate usage of the lowers tiers is barely equal to that of UU, which is itself ~8 times less than that of OU. Doesn't make much sense to support tiers that are ultra niche and that won't even be replicable on cartridge.
Can’t speak for everyone, but for me, it’s a bit underwhelming since we more or less saw every returning mon before the leak. It just gave me an expectation that if they are willing to show such diversity, there’ll be more to discover. Instead, the only thing that wasn’t shown were Galarian forms and Galar mons. 400 isn’t a bad number, just one below expectation.
So nothing new has popped up since? Good, I could just make some comments:
Flygon: I'm your Garchomp now, bit**!
What I imagine is more likely to happen is that they'll expand the Pokedex via version progression through the generation.
As eaglehawk noted above, a lot of Pokemon not included are in the Sinnoh Dex. We we'll probably start with this group of 400+ mons in SwSh, then they release the Sinnoh remakes with many of the missing Pokemon (maybe including a batch of Legendaries that aren't in Sinnoh, heck since those game Legendaries are interdimentional creatures would also be an easy way to bring back the Ultra Beasts), and then SwSh2 would bring in the rest.
"I'm sorry, you cannot transfer this Farfetch'd into Pokemon HOME because it has an illegal move(s): First Impression. If you continue trying to transfer this Pokemon the illegal move(s) will be deleted. Continue this Pokemon's transfer into Pokemon HOME?"
Is there a way they could nerf Toxapex without changing its stats, like what if they replaced Recover with Aqua Ring? If the problem is Baneful Bunker, make it only affect moves that make Contact (that way Earthquake and Special Psychic-type moves will still affect it)?
GF never did like stall with VGC.
This is probably worth writing a Flying Press article about. ;)Ok so for anyone interested I did a little synposis of what the leaked dex (assuming it is correct) would mean for the new overused metagame.
1) A chart of important/relevant/semi-relevant pokemon that will NOT BE SEEN in gen8ou (ubers arent playable as well)
If the leaks stay true then we will miss an absolutely vast amount of OU-powerhouses. (yes I forgot heatran)
2) A chart of pokemon that could be relevant within the gen8ou metagame, this list consists of pokemon that technically have to potential to be good/viale/semi-viable. I tried to include as many niche-pokemon as possible without going too far into "what if.." direction.
For example: Hippowdon and Excadrill are playable -> donphan not on the list. Just an example, as you can see I still included many things
Except against a Silvally holding a Memory.
Are you sure about this one? Because with the Galarian forms of Meowth and Yamask getting a new evolution yet Persian and Cofagrigus both are still in the Dex tells me at the very least you can transfer the non-Galarian forms of these Pokemon (and maybe the Alolan forms of included Pokemon? You can have an entire team of Meowth & evos and they'll all be different!) to Galar. They may even have trades for some, like they would need a trade for at least Persian and Cofagrigus (possibly bring back the Tourist Traders that LGPE had).
Flygon Gigantamax?Looking more slowly to the chart I've noticed that Flygon is in. Do you think that this will be the time that Flygon will get his Mega?
Flygon: I'm your Garchomp now, bit**!
Yet but why would a dead Corsola keep Regenerator? I'd imagine it'll probably be replaced with something like Aftermath, Dry Skin, Mold Breaker, or Rough Skin.
Is it time we dust off the old "HOENN CONFURMED!!1!" meme and adapt it for Sinnoh?
That sounds like something Faba would do.
Look, I would love if they also had DLC, but they did say they weren't going to do DLC/patches to add more Pokemon.
What I imagine is more likely to happen is that they'll expand the Pokedex via version progression through the generation.
As eaglehawk noted above, a lot of Pokemon not included are in the Sinnoh Dex. We we'll probably start with this group of 400+ mons in SwSh, then they release the Sinnoh remakes with many of the missing Pokemon (maybe including a batch of Legendaries that aren't in Sinnoh, heck since those game Legendaries are interdimentional creatures would also be an easy way to bring back the Ultra Beasts), and then SwSh2 would bring in the rest.
Indeedee is looking like a suspicious expy of Audino...
There's also Showdown that'll not only have all the Pokemon but also Mega Evolutions, Z-Moves, and I'm guessing will try to add in Dynamax/Gigantamax once we know what the stat increases are like for it.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
It has been a long journey, everyone, but now it must come to an end. Unless those rumors about the Pokedex expanding postgame turn out to be true, this is THE. FINAL. DEX. UPDATE!!!!!!! I've also done some recounting and revisions this time around, so if some numbers look odd compared to last update there you go. Because of this, I'm also not gonna have the numbers added in parantheses in section 1. And with all that and a potential inaccuracies disclaimer thrown in, LET'S GO!!!!!!! pikachu and eevee lol
Kanto - 54 (48 original, 6 regional variants)
Johto - 34 (26 original, 5 cross-gen evolutions, 2 cross-gen pre-evolutions, 1 regional variant)
Hoenn - 42 (39 original, 2 regional variants, 1 cross-gen pre-evolution)
Sinnoh - 38 (23 original, 10 cross-gen evolutions, 5 cross-gen pre-evolutions)
Unova - 85 (81 original, 4 regional variants)
Kalos - 32 (31 original, 1 cross-gen evolution)
Alola - 36 (all original)
Galar - 81 (76 original, 5 cross-gen evolutions)
Total - 402
Percentages (Rounded down, nearest tenth for overall Galar Dex %)
Kanto - 35% of Kanto mons, 13.3% of Galar dex
Johto - 34% of Johto mons, 8.5% of Galar dex
Hoenn - 31% of Hoenn mons, 10.4% of Galar dex
Sinnoh - 35% of Sinnoh mons, 9.5% of Galar dex
Unova - 54% of Unova mons, 21.1% of Galar dex
Kalos - 45% of Kalos mons, 8% of Galar dex
Alola - 41% of Alola mons, 9% of Galar dex
Galar - 20.1% of Galar dex
Well, it's not all horrible for Hoenn fans I guess. They're still last, but at least they got above the 30% benchmark in the final stretch, right? Also, holy fucking balls the Unova representation is crazier than I could've imagined. OVER HALF of their home dex is in, and they have even edged out Galar itself for the highest proportion of the Galar Pokedex represented, taking back the crown in that area. I hope you like Gen 5...
Frankly, the Kanto representation is actually pretty mediocre considering how much love Unova (the gen with the most comparable new mons list) got and how even gens like Kalos ajnd Alola got more of their mons in, as well as considering how importing them all would've been easier thanks to the Let's Go games existing.
So, what are your thoughts on the complete Pokedex? Does it look alright, or are there glaring omissions? Are you satisfied with the number, or do you think there should've been more? Do you truly think this is it, or are you holding out hope for an expansion postgame?
Kanto - 54 (48 original, 6 regional variants)
Johto - 34 (26 original, 5 cross-gen evolutions, 2 cross-gen pre-evolutions, 1 regional variant)
Hoenn - 42 (39 original, 2 regional variants, 1 cross-gen pre-evolution)
Sinnoh - 38 (23 original, 10 cross-gen evolutions, 5 cross-gen pre-evolutions)
Unova - 85 (81 original, 4 regional variants)
Kalos - 32 (31 original, 1 cross-gen evolution)
Alola - 36 (all original)
Galar - 81 (76 original, 5 cross-gen evolutions)
Total - 402
Percentages (Rounded down, nearest tenth for overall Galar Dex %)
Kanto - 35% of Kanto mons, 13.3% of Galar dex
Johto - 34% of Johto mons, 8.5% of Galar dex
Hoenn - 31% of Hoenn mons, 10.4% of Galar dex
Sinnoh - 35% of Sinnoh mons, 9.5% of Galar dex
Unova - 54% of Unova mons, 21.1% of Galar dex
Kalos - 45% of Kalos mons, 8% of Galar dex
Alola - 41% of Alola mons, 9% of Galar dex
Galar - 20.1% of Galar dex
Well, it's not all horrible for Hoenn fans I guess. They're still last, but at least they got above the 30% benchmark in the final stretch, right? Also, holy fucking balls the Unova representation is crazier than I could've imagined. OVER HALF of their home dex is in, and they have even edged out Galar itself for the highest proportion of the Galar Pokedex represented, taking back the crown in that area. I hope you like Gen 5...
Frankly, the Kanto representation is actually pretty mediocre considering how much love Unova (the gen with the most comparable new mons list) got and how even gens like Kalos ajnd Alola got more of their mons in, as well as considering how importing them all would've been easier thanks to the Let's Go games existing.
So, what are your thoughts on the complete Pokedex? Does it look alright, or are there glaring omissions? Are you satisfied with the number, or do you think there should've been more? Do you truly think this is it, or are you holding out hope for an expansion postgame?
I see the appeal of the smaller dex for the competitive metas, but honestly, I'm really sad about how like, 60% of the old dex got cut.
This is different than the older gens with smaller dexes because we know there's a bunch of mons going to the Retirement Home.
Comp. Wise, only the RS meta (as in, before FR/LG) had something similar with all the GBC mons getting cut and only mons that got back for RS could be reused. And that's the word. Used again. The mons that you raised in Crystal stayed in Crystal. RIP.
Now that Dexit is a policy, this is going to happen every single game.
Worst part? I see no results for that cut.
But anyway, this isn't the Dexit thread. Y'all noticed that only the League city has a Move Tutor so far? Chances are it's only the good old Draco Meteor tutor again.
Fan-flipping-tastic.
This is different than the older gens with smaller dexes because we know there's a bunch of mons going to the Retirement Home.
Comp. Wise, only the RS meta (as in, before FR/LG) had something similar with all the GBC mons getting cut and only mons that got back for RS could be reused. And that's the word. Used again. The mons that you raised in Crystal stayed in Crystal. RIP.
Now that Dexit is a policy, this is going to happen every single game.
Worst part? I see no results for that cut.
But anyway, this isn't the Dexit thread. Y'all noticed that only the League city has a Move Tutor so far? Chances are it's only the good old Draco Meteor tutor again.
Fan-flipping-tastic.
RIP my $50.
Gen 3 is not a comparable gen because at the time gen 3 was released it was the most Pokemon, and most varied meta we had ever known. Gen 3 was a step forward from gen 2.
Going from gen 7 to gen 3 levels of Pokemon is a step backwards.
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