SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword & Shield Pre-Release SPOILERS - Check Post 2!

[Marcelloc2]

The first thing I'm going to do once Showdown implements gen 8 is run a stall team with 6 HDB mons. Go ahead, use Stealth Rocks.

Lol.
Some mons just got way more viable, like carracosta and crustle with sturdy+Shell smash.
No, wait. Just crustle. Lol.

 

[JackHammer360]

The legendary birds would have loved these boots. Zapdos less than the others, but having Roost makes forgoing Leftovers a lot easier on them. Moltres might see some more usage in Nat Dex OU, with it already being (slightly) usable this gen. If hail stall somehow makes the rise that people are predicting, Articuno with boots might be that penguin's best friend.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I have some bad news for you

To use the late Volcarona as an example:

I know. You don't need to squeeze even more lemon juice onto the wound.

 

[Project_Mars]

Do we have any information regarding Dragapult's hidden ability, or if it even has one?

edit: I am actually quite fond of clear body on dragapult, honestly.

The only two abilities we know are Clear Body and Infiltrator, but we don’t know if Infiltrator is HA or not considering the Rental Duraludon has its HA.

I have some bad news for you

I know. You don't need to squeeze even more lemon juice onto the wound.

There’s always the National Dex Meta that Smogon is doing.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Now that I've had some time to think it over, I really think that Heavy Duty Boots will benefit pivot and defensive Pokemon much more than the 2x or quad-weak set-up mons. The main benefit of hazards, after all, is to wear down Pokemon that love to switch in and out, which frail set-up mons are loathe to do. Volcarona, Gyarados, and now Frosmoth don't really need the HP to sweep as long as they get a chance to pull off a DD or QD, which you can really only do for free a few times per battle, after which they are likely to stay in and punch holes till they die. There's also the downside of running the Boots over another, maybe prefered item, like Lum Berry/HP restoring Berry or Life Orb.

Instead, let's look at a pokemon like Reuniclus. HDB allow it to run Regenerator over Magic Guard, while still getting alot of the benefits of the latter. From there you can run a defensive utility set. Another few Pokemon that might benefit from HBD would be Unaware Quag, Regen Pex (though it might still prefer shed shell or sludge), Sand Stream Hippo (especially with what will amount to a new weather war with Dynamax), and Shuckle.

Mons that dont need to rely on left overs for recovery are my biggest thought for this item. Togekiss is looking like an attractive user of it, especially since togekiss can be a great utility bulk mon if needed or if you have a hyper offensive team and wanna do a wall breaker nasty plot set and dont have room for defog or spin togekiss would greatly appreciate the rock protection.

Especially considering togekiss is probably jumping up to ou judging by the fairies we have. Togekiss got a lot of utility and survivability not really present on anything other than clefable (and maybe hatterene).

I wouldn't sleep on it this gen at least.

 

[Charisma]

It will be interesting to see how National Dex OU compares to Sword and Shield OU in regards to the health of both metas.

 

[Bombkirby]

Now that I've had some time to think it over, I really think that Heavy Duty Boots will benefit pivot and defensive Pokemon much more than the 2x or quad-weak set-up mons. The main benefit of hazards, after all, is to wear down Pokemon that love to switch in and out, which frail set-up mons are loathe to do. Volcarona, Gyarados, and now Frosmoth don't really need the HP to sweep as long as they get a chance to pull off a DD or QD, which you can really only do for free a few times per battle, after which they are likely to stay in and punch holes till they die. There's also the downside of running the Boots over another, maybe prefered item, like Lum Berry/HP restoring Berry or Life Orb.

Instead, let's look at a pokemon like Reuniclus. HDB allow it to run Regenerator over Magic Guard, while still getting alot of the benefits of the latter. From there you can run a defensive utility set. Another few Pokemon that might benefit from HBD would be Unaware Quag, Regen Pex (though it might still prefer shed shell or sludge), Sand Stream Hippo (especially with what will amount to a new weather war with Dynamax), and Shuckle.

Volcano a definitely wants it. QD boosts its bulk and you’re wasting that aspect of the mob if you start at half HP.

 

[Sazoon]

I kinda hope aegislash is able to stay in ou. Fun mon to use with a cool concept. Plus all the good counters like hippo and mandi are in and checks like bisharp, excadrill, hydreigon and kinda ttar? Pen can also just sit there and bore him out if he doesn’t have sd lol. Also some new mobs could do a number on him like the impadimp line not being weak to ghost fighting coverage and the new pseudo legendary if he gets that juicy ghost stab. Would be a lot of fun seeing him back in but I doubt it with this power recession.

 

[Kami42]

I kinda hope aegislash is able to stay in ou. Fun mon to use with a cool concept. Plus all the good counters like hippo and mandi are in and checks like bisharp, excadrill, hydreigon and kinda ttar? Pen can also just sit there and bore him out if he doesn’t have sd lol. Also some new mobs could do a number on him like the impadimp line not being weak to ghost fighting coverage and the new pseudo legendary if he gets that juicy ghost stab. Would be a lot of fun seeing him back in but I doubt it with this power recession.

We'll see in a few months, when the tiers are going to be build c:
Personally, I'm looking forward to competetive this gen

 

[Sirya]

I kinda hope aegislash is able to stay in ou. Fun mon to use with a cool concept. Plus all the good counters like hippo and mandi are in and checks like bisharp, excadrill, hydreigon and kinda ttar? Pen can also just sit there and bore him out if he doesn’t have sd lol. Also some new mobs could do a number on him like the impadimp line not being weak to ghost fighting coverage and the new pseudo legendary if he gets that juicy ghost stab. Would be a lot of fun seeing him back in but I doubt it with this power recession.

Hippowdown isn't a counter. No one is a counter. It's the Aegi.

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Hippowdon: 227-269 (54 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 185-218 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You have to run fully SpD. defensive to have a chance against it, also Shadow Ball has a chance to ruin your SpD. "Oh but that is theorymon" I'd accept that if Aegislash were a new mon, but it isn't, we all know very well how its shenanigans work. King's Shield alone is half the reason for it to be banned, that shit creates SO many 50/50 situations it's not even funny and the worst is we've seen it in real scenarios. It can run Shadow Plate, Physical SD, has priority, pursuit, leftys, abnormal stats in both forms, SpA. sets that hit like a truck...

In fact, no one of the Pokémon you've said can switch in reliably. 3 of them get fuck by Sacred Sword, hippo gets rekt by shadow ball or toxic stall (toxic sub kings...)

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 106-126 (39.1 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is without hazards and running leftys. Then Bisharp can do basically 3 things: pursuit, knock off, swords dance. If aegi gets the king's shield in pursuit or knock off GG. Even Tox gets eventually rekt by subs aegi. He cant stand the Shadow Ball spam with potentially SpD drops and scald does shit.

 

[Charisma]

Aside from a few mons that I'm still salty about not making the cut, I am looking forward to a less volatile meta (I.E would be counters losing to Z-moves). And as Aim pointed out, having a go to team that can generally handle most teams will be nice again.

 

[LordHelix]

Who says you can't do both and use the boots to make a defensive pivot out of a mon whose otherwise good typing is hampered by a hazard weakness? To use the late Volcarona as an example:

Volcarona @ Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp / Defog
- U-turn / Defog
- Flamethrower

My guys all saying volcorana is dead but did yall forget abt natdex ou? Its still gonna be a thing guys and heavy boots moltres and this volcorana set will be flames. They have such a goood defensive typing that can finally be abused now

Edit: rotom heat can abuse its resistances as well now and wont get chipped

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

I kinda hope aegislash is able to stay in ou. Fun mon to use with a cool concept. Plus all the good counters like hippo and mandi are in and checks like bisharp, excadrill, hydreigon and kinda ttar? Pen can also just sit there and bore him out if he doesn’t have sd lol. Also some new mobs could do a number on him like the impadimp line not being weak to ghost fighting coverage and the new pseudo legendary if he gets that juicy ghost stab. Would be a lot of fun seeing him back in but I doubt it with this power recession.

For a while maybe but I wouldn't bank on it we had all those coulnters the past two gens and it was still too threatening, hell last gen we had more checks even. Lando and chomp for instance. Sucker punch and good earthquakes aren't enough to keep that monster in check.

I dont understand why people think its going to suddenly be checked enough this gen when we have LESS to deal with it with.

 

[inc0gnito]

Hippowdown isn't a counter. No one is a counter. It's the Aegi.

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Hippowdon: 227-269 (54 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 185-218 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You have to run fully SpD. defensive to have a chance against it, also Shadow Ball has a chance to ruin your SpD. "Oh but that is theorymon" I'd accept that if Aegislash were a new mon, but it isn't, we all know very well how its shenanigans work. King's Shield alone is half the reason for it to be banned, that shit creates SO many 50/50 situations it's not even funny and the worst is we've seen it in real scenarios. It can run Shadow Plate, Physical SD, has priority, pursuit, leftys, abnormal stats in both forms, SpA. sets that hit like a truck...

In fact, no one of the Pokémon you've said can switch in reliably. 3 of them get fuck by Sacred Sword, hippo gets rekt by shadow ball or toxic stall (toxic sub kings...)

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 106-126 (39.1 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is without hazards and running leftys. Then Bisharp can do basically 3 things: pursuit, knock off, swords dance. If aegi gets the king's shield in pursuit or knock off GG. Even Tox gets eventually rekt by subs aegi. He cant stand the Shadow Ball spam with potentially SpD drops and scald does shit.

Toxapex still has a fair shot.. It can Haze away Aegi's SD boosts, and King's Shield PP can be abused. Heck, even Haze alone can win the PP war. And if not running Sub, Aegi will risk getting burned so you auto win <wink>

 

[inc0gnito]

My guys all saying volcorana is dead but did yall forget abt natdex ou? Its still gonna be a thing guys and heavy boots moltres and this volcorana set will be flames. They have such a goood defensive typing that can finally be abused now

Edit: rotom heat can abuse its resistances as well now and wont get chipped

Knock Off will be even better this gen

 

[dodiabla]

Blunder Policy is also interesting because it allows you to use high-powered attacks, that even if they fail to do damage, give you a boost.

Now the question is, does this item synergize with Hustle?

Because if it does, a certain fairy, ant, and alolan rat are going to be really happy with it.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Blunder Policy is also interesting because it allows you to use high-powered attacks, that even if they fail to do damage, give you a boost.

Now the question is, does this item synergize with Hustle?

Because if it does, a certain fairy, ant, and alolan rat are going to be really happy with it.

The question is, is the benefit of it going to out way the situational nature of it? And is an agility when you want damage going to be worth giving up life orb or other item option the mons using it will likely want more.

If a protected attack counts tho itll be dope in vgc.

 

[Sirya]

Toxapex still has a fair shot.. It can Haze away Aegi's SD boosts, and King's Shield PP can be abused. Heck, even Haze alone can win the PP war. And if not running Sub, Aegi will risk getting burned so you auto win <wink>

Problem is not SD Aegi, thats the reason i haven't even mentioned it in the tox scenario, problem is Tox, unlike AV Tan, do not have the raw power to pull it through aegi's subs in 1 hit while in shielded form.

SD Aegi has nothing to do against The Tox because its greatest hit is Head Smash (lool...), and its viable options are shadow claw, shadow sneak and iron head. The tox just haze + scald burns and you already know how this ends. But SpA. Shadow Ball spam is a totally different story. Scald does break standard SpA. Aegi in sword stance, but it receives 30 to 35% in exchange (in a real scenario that should be around 28% after leftys recovery) and, if for some reason it gets a -1 in SpD, Shadow Ball begins to look like this

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

44 to 52% is a range in which you'll be doing recover most of the time, so, it's not impossible by any means to stop it, what I mean is it's not a confortable situation.

 

[peng]

For a while maybe but I wouldn't bank on it we had all those coulnters the past two gens and it was still too threatening, hell last gen we had more checks even. Lando and chomp for instance. Sucker punch and good earthquakes aren't enough to keep that monster in check.

I dont understand why people think its going to suddenly be checked enough this gen when we have LESS to deal with it with.

Its unlikely to be the case but you can definitely argue that in a restricted format, having fewer threats to try and cover means that you can commit more resources on your team to improving your match-up against the remaining stuff.

Not a perfect example, but on a really real basic level, in old gens if you choose to run hippo + mandibuzz / Bisharp then you’re committing a disproportionate amount of resources to beating aegi and probably end up super weak to other stuff. Its possible that in SwSh that Hippo, mandibuzz and bisharp all end up being S/A+ mons that naturally end up being partnered without making you weak to other stuff, because theres comparatively not much else to be weak to.

Its definitely very unlikely, but this kind of thing does happen. Case-in-point, theres several examples of mons that are good in OU (although not high enough usage to be tiered there) but near useless in lower tiers, so fester in NU. This is because cutting out the 50 best pokemon in a generation is occasionally enough to make something completely change in viability.

Won’t know unless we test. I agree that Aegis is probably busted but its certainly possible that teams naturally gravitate to fit in 3+ good checks to it without having to scrimp in other places.

 

[stage7_4]

While this gen seems pretty kind to ice types in general, I want to point out that the pokedex order is usually influenced by the encounter order. So #72 to 81 and #96, 97 all being ice types means this might be the first pokemon game to avert the "ice types come at the end" format by giving you 4 family lines to work with rather early in the game. And Delibird.

Well, I guess Unova sort of counts, but Vanillite and Cubchoo at Gym 5 isn't much to celebrate.

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

Blunder Policy is also interesting because it allows you to use high-powered attacks, that even if they fail to do damage, give you a boost.

Now the question is, does this item synergize with Hustle?

Because if it does, a certain fairy, ant, and alolan rat are going to be really happy with it.

Don't see any reason it wouldn't, as it only specifies misses as its trigger clause

 

[Siggu]

Unless it works on similar conditions to Stomping Tantrum, I doubt Blunder Policy will have many applications. Unless you are willing to run one of the 50% accuracy moves, its activation would be very unreliable.

 

[Alex Rose]

Expanding to the Nat Dex, I nominate Ho-Oh for best Hazard Boots user. It's already an upper-tier Uber when it has to worry about 50% rocks, and it's going to be a complete menace when it can switch around with impunity.

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

Unless it works on similar conditions to Stomping Tantrum, I doubt Blunder Policy will have many applications. Unless you are willing to run one of the 50% accuracy moves, its activation would be very unreliable.

I don't think the point of the blunder policy is to actively try and get it's speed boosts, but it creates a situation where a pokemon has a win/win in using a move.

 

[Project_Mars]

Yeah, Aegislash is still Aegislash and will likely be banished to Ubers. Heck, it’s gonna even be an interesting problem child in VGC and I can see quite a few games coming down to getting rid of the Aegislash counters to win.