BH Balanced Hackmons

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
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court change frameworks:

i’m not good at mons rn because i didn’t win seasonal so i can’t guarantee that i have 100% answers to things. i can however try several different frameworks and you can choose the one you like the best!

main issues with court change
  • cc makes hazard games extremely volatile and prone to wild imbalances
  • instead of being slightly helpful in a wide variety of situations, cc is extremely strong in very specific situations and useless otherwise. (even if they have hazards, cc can still be stopped by insufficient mobility if active or invalidated by imposter if passive)
  • hazard-based teams are extremely relevant in the metagame and preparing for them is extremely difficult even with court change factored in (see above point).

hazards as portfolio management
  • this framework involves each team creating a “portfolio” with hazards, spin/defog, and court change, each of which can be invested in to various extents. for example, a team might have heavy hazard investment, some spin, and no cc.
  • in general, hazards beat spin/defog, which beat court change (slightly less hard than the other matchups), which beats hazards.
  • therefore, the portfolios of two teams are extremely vital in determining the outcome of the game. for example, hazard spam will run over defog/spin. i shouldn’t even have to provide replays for that.
  • dealing with the wide assortment of possible opposing portfolios as well as the many offensive threats in the metagame is simply unrealistic. decent consistency in any playstyle is not something i’ve been able to find.

court change and tempo
  • a tempo is defined as the time it takes a player to make one move. court change results in a massive transfer of tempi between players cause you get 0 hazards and they get all of em.
  • nothing else in bh really works like this. court change actively punishes a player for making progress even if they aren’t using a hazard-invested team.
  • as a result, “progress”, especially in the sense of offensive teams, has become rather muddled as a term. how do you make progress now? set up with a broken sweeper (lil kiss)? paralyze everyone (paraspam)? nothing can really come close to how universal hazards are in their light impact but buildup over time.
  • this tempo transfer is likely to win the game on the spot for the cc user if they aren’t already lost due to hazard setters being extremely good. this is because hazard-heavy teams thrive on mobility and being able to operate without hazards impeding them, so if they can’t easily spin away the hazards (even if it’s just 1 spike) the resulting position is extremely bad.

court change vs magic bounce
  • the primary difference between cc and bounce is that bounce mons have to throw themselves in front of the hazard setter and must be played actively. court change is better played as a reaction to hazards already being on your side.
  • because of this, bounce can be consciously prepped for. covering all possible bouncers with 2 hazard setters creates a strong offensive core with many possible counterplay methods but no immediate weakness. closed (working with cycles, fighting for weird objectives, making progress by walling) and open (trading mons to gain an advantage, identifying which of several wincons is strongest, fighting for key damage to break through) lines are both common and reward skill.
  • court change allows you to technically wall out an opponent without actually having to wall them out: the reversal of progress is simply too much to handle if they commit at all to it. good teams like those made by stresh don’t commit to hazards and accept that they can simply go away.

hazards in a cc-less meta
  • hazards on defensive mons come back into fashion, and are counterbalanced by magic bounce.
  • similar to how shed and its hazard denial punished unsound hazard spam last gen, this gen we have boots as a less polarizing way to not get run over. aggression by the hazard setting side is necessary, rather than just sitting there and clicking hazards.
  • ph mons can freely run hazards again, making paraspam worse and less necessary.
  • defog returns to punish people for setting up 3 spikes, rocks, webs, and a single tspike without being ready to fully capitalize on them. it doesn’t give the other side an instant win if they’ve spent the last 6 turns doing nothing, though.

free veil
  • free veil
  • free TOWER OF POWER
  • this is my strongest point so i put it at the end
 
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For many of the reasons detailed above in city's post the bh council has decided to quick ban Court Change from Balanced Hackmons with a vote of 3 - 1.
XxSevagxXcityscapesa loserxavgb
Court ChangeBanBanDo not banBan

Court Change was seen as an unhealthy move for the Balanced Hackmons metagame due to how freely it reverses progress made through setting entry hazards and how it makes progress made through entry hazards non-linear. This means that setting up hazards can sometimes be detrimental and give the opponent the opportunity to make progress, instead of the hazards users if the opponent has the correct Court Change pokemon, or is able to get their Court Change pokemon in. Additionally, because of the presence of such non-linear play, and ability to immediately reverse progress, many teams simply stopped running hazards, and instead relied on court change to "set" hazards on their opponents team,. The fact that using hazards can get the user punished was deemed as unhealthy, and the non-linearity of hazards play in Balanced Hackmons was deemed as unhealthy for the metagame, hence the council's decision to ban Court Change.

Tagging Kris to implement and credit to a loser for making this awesome photo! We look forward to hearing your thoughts on this ban, and how it might effect the Balanced Hackmons metagame.
 
Hey so I recently came back after I left because of Cramorant-Gorging making everything impossible to play. I just came back and saw Zacian-C and now court change have also been banned alongside Cramorant-Gorging. I had an old stall team I used that was pretty good except for the power that Zacian-C had and the paralyze from gorging form slowing my only pokemon with any offensive presence. I just wanted to post it here and see what you all think of it considering it's an older team and I'm not that good at teambuilding. I was considering changing worry seed out as that was a pixilate counter and I haven't been seeing much Xern, although when she does come I could struggle considering both her abilities she usually runs (poison heal and pixilate) both make her substantially stronger but also substantially weaker without it. Let me know what you all think I should change

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Spike setter and phaser, used as a check ot alot of offensive threats, usually used as the first pokemon to die. Knock off for support against pokemon with heavy duty boots, choice items depending on the user, and eviolite. Helps tank for ho-oh and darm-zen's weakness to water

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- V-create
- Nuzzle
- Roost
- Worry Seed

Xern check and para spreader. Hits hard with VCreate and can be an great pivot for darm-zen

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderous Kick
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up

This needs to be talked about. Fur coat on urshifu rapid strike is seriously powerful. Can tank 2 hits from everything in the metagame physically. Hits hard as hell, can still be fairly speedy, and provides immense pressure with powerful supporting moves with secondary effects. Spectral thief to hit ghost types and steal boosts. Thunderous kick to help against certain defensive walls and make them switch, and predict where they will switch. rapid spin for hazard control however fischous rend is also still good as most pokemon you would use it against (groudon, zygarde-complete)

Darmanitan-Zen @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Lava Plume
- Core Enforcer
- Stealth Rock

Status wall. Good offensive and defensive pressure. Hella weakness but hella strengths. Often my lead to scount and lay rocks down. Core enforcer for most ability based pokemon and lava plume for STAB and burns.

Giratina @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Core Enforcer
- Knock Off

Boost control and wall. Very good at just staring threats down and weakening them then knock off after to get a free item knock off. Probably my least useful pokemon but when I need him he always comes through

Xerneas @ Metronome
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Strength Sap
- Blue Flare
- Rapid Spin

Wallbreaker and usually my main win condition. Rarely goes in unless all of it's checks are dead. Rapid spin into a boomburst spam is deadly thanks to the speed boost. Blue flare to deal with steel types and strength sap to heal against slower physically offensive threats.
 
Hey so I recently came back after I left because of Cramorant-Gorging making everything impossible to play. I just came back and saw Zacian-C and now court change have also been banned alongside Cramorant-Gorging. I had an old stall team I used that was pretty good except for the power that Zacian-C had and the paralyze from gorging form slowing my only pokemon with any offensive presence. I just wanted to post it here and see what you all think of it considering it's an older team and I'm not that good at teambuilding. I was considering changing worry seed out as that was a pixilate counter and I haven't been seeing much Xern, although when she does come I could struggle considering both her abilities she usually runs (poison heal and pixilate) both make her substantially stronger but also substantially weaker without it. Let me know what you all think I should change

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Spike setter and phaser, used as a check ot alot of offensive threats, usually used as the first pokemon to die. Knock off for support against pokemon with heavy duty boots, choice items depending on the user, and eviolite. Helps tank for ho-oh and darm-zen's weakness to water

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- V-create
- Nuzzle
- Roost
- Worry Seed

Xern check and para spreader. Hits hard with VCreate and can be an great pivot for darm-zen

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderous Kick
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up

This needs to be talked about. Fur coat on urshifu rapid strike is seriously powerful. Can tank 2 hits from everything in the metagame physically. Hits hard as hell, can still be fairly speedy, and provides immense pressure with powerful supporting moves with secondary effects. Spectral thief to hit ghost types and steal boosts. Thunderous kick to help against certain defensive walls and make them switch, and predict where they will switch. rapid spin for hazard control however fischous rend is also still good as most pokemon you would use it against (groudon, zygarde-complete)

Darmanitan-Zen @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Lava Plume
- Core Enforcer
- Stealth Rock

Status wall. Good offensive and defensive pressure. Hella weakness but hella strengths. Often my lead to scount and lay rocks down. Core enforcer for most ability based pokemon and lava plume for STAB and burns.

Giratina @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Core Enforcer
- Knock Off

Boost control and wall. Very good at just staring threats down and weakening them then knock off after to get a free item knock off. Probably my least useful pokemon but when I need him he always comes through

Xerneas @ Metronome
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Strength Sap
- Blue Flare
- Rapid Spin

Wallbreaker and usually my main win condition. Rarely goes in unless all of it's checks are dead. Rapid spin into a boomburst spam is deadly thanks to the speed boost. Blue flare to deal with steel types and strength sap to heal against slower physically offensive threats.
If you ever decide to build again here are some good reads
The new Viability Ranking
Why the changes
The main threats in the current meta

Really, the new threats make your team very vulnerable. Mons like Eternatus or Groudon are a must to check now and you can easily lose if you can't.
Here are some of my recommendations based on your team:

:xy/ferrothorn:
Nowadays Primordial Sea is the better Flash Fire because of Mold Breaker. The set is fine.
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet / Shed Shell
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Filler
- Filler
- Recovery

:xy/ho-oh:
Changing Ho-oh here would need other partners.
Watch out using Ho-oh. You can't do much but spread status to the appropriate mons and be walled by others. You said worry seed can be used against Pixilate Xern and unless you switch after using it, the move will be stronger; and if they're metronome / Specs it can hurt when you need to recover.
252+ SpA Metronome Xerneas Normal Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 126-148 (30.2 - 35.5%) metronome boom used 2 times against a +SPD Ho-oh
252+ SpA Choice Specs Xerneas Normal Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 134-158 (32.2 - 37.9%)

Xerneas can also run Fishious Rend or Diamond Storm.

This set is also useless against (defensive) Primordial Sea users.
I'd imagine a scenario like that: Turn 1 - A primordial sea coming in you V create, T2 using this in their favor (Spikes, knock off, Stealth rock, Anchor Shot, etc) and you using Worry Seed or Nuzzle, T3 them switching to something else and eventually repeat to PP stall.

:ss/urshifu-rapid-strike:
Urshifu Rapid spin is walled by Giratina (+ other ghost types) and Spectral thief isn't enough to beat it. You'll have to switch most of the time against it in the opponent's favor. Since Court Change just got banned, Xerneas being the only Rapid Spin is not bad to test how the meta is.
I also find Fishious Rend to be a must when using Rapid-Strike.
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Mystic Water
Ability: Fur Coat
Jolly Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Fishious Rend
- Spikes / Bolt Strike / Filler
- Recovery

:xy/darmanitan-zen:
From the late meta discussions, Darm-Zen it's not as useful now. In this case I would suggest using Tapu Fini as it can run the same set and it is paired well with Giratina.
Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Baneful Bunker
- SwitchMove
- Filler


:ss/giratina:
Classic Giratina, pairs well with Tapu Fini, and you always want to be slow when you have Core Enforcer.
Giratina @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Core Enforcer
- Knock Off / Destiny Bond / Filler

:ss/xerneas:
I like the set since Metronome Blue Flare 2 time = big damage and you have Rapid Spin + Strength Sap to help. Giving its Spin role to another poke and replacing it with a set up / offensive set also works since it's one of the top threats at the moment.
Hope this helps!
 
Hey so I recently came back after I left because of Cramorant-Gorging making everything impossible to play. I just came back and saw Zacian-C and now court change have also been banned alongside Cramorant-Gorging. I had an old stall team I used that was pretty good except for the power that Zacian-C had and the paralyze from gorging form slowing my only pokemon with any offensive presence. I just wanted to post it here and see what you all think of it considering it's an older team and I'm not that good at teambuilding. I was considering changing worry seed out as that was a pixilate counter and I haven't been seeing much Xern, although when she does come I could struggle considering both her abilities she usually runs (poison heal and pixilate) both make her substantially stronger but also substantially weaker without it. Let me know what you all think I should change

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Spike setter and phaser, used as a check ot alot of offensive threats, usually used as the first pokemon to die. Knock off for support against pokemon with heavy duty boots, choice items depending on the user, and eviolite. Helps tank for ho-oh and darm-zen's weakness to water

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- V-create
- Nuzzle
- Roost
- Worry Seed

Xern check and para spreader. Hits hard with VCreate and can be an great pivot for darm-zen

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderous Kick
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up

This needs to be talked about. Fur coat on urshifu rapid strike is seriously powerful. Can tank 2 hits from everything in the metagame physically. Hits hard as hell, can still be fairly speedy, and provides immense pressure with powerful supporting moves with secondary effects. Spectral thief to hit ghost types and steal boosts. Thunderous kick to help against certain defensive walls and make them switch, and predict where they will switch. rapid spin for hazard control however fischous rend is also still good as most pokemon you would use it against (groudon, zygarde-complete)

Darmanitan-Zen @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Lava Plume
- Core Enforcer
- Stealth Rock

Status wall. Good offensive and defensive pressure. Hella weakness but hella strengths. Often my lead to scount and lay rocks down. Core enforcer for most ability based pokemon and lava plume for STAB and burns.

Giratina @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Core Enforcer
- Knock Off

Boost control and wall. Very good at just staring threats down and weakening them then knock off after to get a free item knock off. Probably my least useful pokemon but when I need him he always comes through

Xerneas @ Metronome
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Strength Sap
- Blue Flare
- Rapid Spin

Wallbreaker and usually my main win condition. Rarely goes in unless all of it's checks are dead. Rapid spin into a boomburst spam is deadly thanks to the speed boost. Blue flare to deal with steel types and strength sap to heal against slower physically offensive threats.
Disagreeing with KabilaPok here. Blue Flare bad move. You're often going to be able to get a rapid spin off since Xern is so immediately threatening with Boomburst, so you can afford to run something like rend. Hits steels neutrally so it'll still do chunks, is more splashable thanks to higher PP, gives you mixed attack to deal with fur/scales, doesn't get walled by random Flash Fire, doesn't miss and Fairy/Water coverage is overall better than Fairy/Fire anyway.
If you really insist on running Fairy/Fire, use V-Create. It may sound counterintuitive since it's not a move that lends itself to spamming over and over, but that's oddly one of its strengths. VC is always a coverage threat on Metro Xern, but it's also one that needs to be scouted for in advance and otherwise isn't quite as expected. Utility like spikes or nuzzle, trapping with cage, or the aforementioned rend are more common, but VC allows you to delete funny non-FC steels thinking they can come in on your shit.

Volt Absorb Ho-Oh is lame but also still gets gigafucked by several other coverage moves. Diamond Storm's only benefit over Rend is being able to hit D-Land Ho-Oh, but that's hardly worth the myriad advantages Rend provides anyway. Sure, you can stuff Thunder Cage, but Metrosexual is just going to sap you to be safe and then delete you with Rend anyway, or it'll get a chance to lay spikes if it has them. The latter also applies to PH Xern, but that can also just spore you. I've mostly just used Bounce Ho-Oh as a blanket bouncer + Xern check after scouting. It loses to coverage but overall provides actual useful utility instead of just surviving Thunder Cage.

Darmanitan should be running Baneful over King's Shield since the latter doesn't stop status, and the former also has the added benefit of more permanent side effects if the enemy can be poisoned. This is a PH set, too, so ensuring you don't get statused turn 1 is even more crucial than on most mons. There's also the fact that Fini is better tbh, and while Don, Etern, Regigigas, and Xern are more or less the Elite Four of offensive threats right now, Palkia is pretty close in terms of threat level. So the fact that Fini hard stuffs 90% of Palkia sets is even better.

Ferro is kinda lame in general even if it's technically a viable mon. It's usually pretty obvious that it's gonna be FF, but if you're getting deleted by one of the most passive tanks in the game in the form of dropping to Zam-C's fighting stab, probably a stinky mon.

Disagree for the most part with their take on Xern, though. Metrosexual is a set that very much builds off each move, and being able to throw out strong hits with near impunity is made even easier by the fact that you can easily get off a +1 speed boost. More than that, spin is especially strong on this set thanks to Pixilate stopping pesky ghosts from hard stuffing you. It can also be a weirdly powerful move in its own right if you're stuck in a 1v1 vs Scales Zam and somehow let yourself get trapped, since you can just pp stall its recovers and do increasingly stupid damage just by spamming rapid spin.

Just random points on each of the sets, really. I dunno how Urshifu fares against Regi in a 1v1 (it can get spored and can't spectral, but it also has thunderous kick which may be an okay deterrent), but should be alright against most other physical mons. Aside from that, though, pretty much all the top offensive mons right now can steamroll you in one way or another. Then again, they can steamroll most teams based on matchup and play.
 
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Parting Shot

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn

Ho-Oh @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Glacial Lance
- Power Whip

Mewtwo @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Astral Barrage
- Secret Sword
- Quiver Dance

Garchomp @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Eternatus @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Scald

Has status vs walls and sturdninja, rapid spin for the average hazard team, stealth rock for focus band users.

No haze or spectral thief cause I have Chansey to copy them. Have every move type there is except dragon. Since dragon's are supposed to deal with dragons, then I guess Chansey will have to do.
 
Last edited:

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Parting Shot

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn

Ho-Oh @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Glacial Lance
- Power Whip

Mewtwo @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Astral Barrage
- Secret Sword
- Quiver Dance

Garchomp @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Eternatus @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Scald

Has status vs walls and sturdninja, rapid spin for the average hazard team, stealth rock for focus band users.

No haze or spectral thief cause I have Chansey to copy them. Have every move type there is except dragon. Since dragon's are supposed to deal with dragons, then I guess Chansey will have to do.
Hi, welcome to Smogon and thanks for coming to the BH thread!
When posting a team here, please try to give a little more detail on why you are using the mons that you chose, how the team works, what the team might struggle with, and replays are always nice to have. A couple lines on each team member is generally enough to get the idea across.

There are some neat ideas on this team, but I can see that you might not be up to date on current metagame threats. To start, Shedinja has been banned for over a year and a half. Next, it doesn't look like you've imposter-proofed your team at all. Setup mons like Mewtwo and Garchomp aren't strong enough to break through Eviolite Imposter Chansey and instead put your team at risk of being swept by Imposter users. Using Spectral Thief on your Magearna instead of Thunderbolt would be a great step in the right direction toward improofing the Mewtwo set, for example. Also, Safety Goggles can come in handy at times, no doubt, but with the Sleep Clause in place and with sleep still being somewhat rare, doubling down on goggles on your sweepers is not doing you many favors. These mons need more useful items like Life Orb, Focus Sash, and others that can help them sweep more effectively rather than dodging Spore.

Having your own Imposter Chansey does help against setup sweepers usually, but not having Spectral Thief or Haze is very risky for playing on the ladder because of moves like Belly Drum, which is usually paired with Unburden so that the user can outspeed and KO Imposters. This means that Belly Burden mons can basically win at team preview unless you happen to KO them first.

There are more comments I could make on the team but will leave it at this for now. Feel free to check out the sample teams and viability rankings to get a better idea of what is good right now, and you can also join us on discord to talk about teams and ideas in real time.
 
Here's A team thats done pretty good for me-
Lugia-Mega (Lugia) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
- Defog

Zacian-Mega (Zacian) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Soft-Boiled
- Rapid Spin
- Taunt

Swampert-Mega (Swampert) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Flip Turn
- Slack Off
- Yawn

Porygon2-Mega (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Quiver Dance
- Techno Blast
- Astral Barrage

Chansey-Mega (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Recover
- Toxic
- King's Shield

Cresselia-Mega (Cresselia) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Spore
- Night Shade
- Roost

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1429326433
 
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martinvtran

Banned deucer.
:xerneas::necrozma-dusk-mane::ho-oh::tapu-fini::zygarde-complete::chansey:
https://pokepast.es/57450b180bb64e7d

I want to share the team I built around the ladder to get voting requirements for the Sleep Suspect Test. It is based on the premise of VoltTurning with 3 incredibly strong Pokémon that can tear through entire teams, paired with a defensive core that can absorb hits.

How to Use: Inspired by the infamous Choice-Specs Mega-Diancie from SM Balanced Hackmons, Pixilate Xerneas is an extremely strong attacker that can obliterate the majority of the metagame with its 200+ BP Boomburst. Common Fairy spam counters such as Ho-Oh, Zamazenta, Eternatus, Celesteela, and Solgaleo do not appreciate being 2HKO’ed by V-Create or Fishious Rend. Hence, Xerneas should often be sent in as a lead to get immediate knock-outs or deal immense damage to the opponent’s team early-game. Extreme Speed is useful for revenge-killing weakened Pokémon and countering Normalize Dragapult. Also, Boomburst is appreciated for its power to infiltrate substitutes which Necrozma cannot do. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is a strong partner as it can clean the remainder of the opponent’s team late-game after 1 Simple-boosted Shift Gear. Precipice Blades is to pick up on remaining threats that Xerneas is uncomfortable with, namely Eternatus, Dialga, and Zamazenta-Crowned. Necrozma is also useful to check opposing Xerneas. Sunsteel Strike and Photon Geyser are to counter pesky Sturdy, Endeavor, and Extreme Speed sets which this team otherwise struggles with due to the lack of Status inflicting moves. Imposter Chansey is a brainless staple to most bulky-offense teams to check and punish opposing set-up Pokémon by stealing and outliving their attacks, which otherwise rip through the team without Tapu-Fini. By switching in on opposing Chansey, Aromatherapy is an option for emergency Cleric support and Anchor Shot is for trapping, outliving and KO'ing opposing Chansey. The defensive/volt-turn core of the team is Tapu Fini + Zygarde-Complete + Ho-Oh, each equipped with slow pivot-moves to grab momentum so offensive Pokémon can safely enter. Regenerator Assault Vest Ho-Oh is a premier Special blanket that takes almost no damage from the commonly spammed Special attacks from top-tier threats, such as Xerneas, Eternatus, Triage abusers, Reshiram, and Blacephalon. It can spread burns and damage annoying Steel-types: Zamazenta, Ferrothorn, and Dialga. Ho-Oh also has an element of Imposter-proof and set-up counter, as it can live a Stored Power and steal accumulated stat boosts from Quiver Dance, Geomancy, and Nasty Plot users through Spectral Thief. Tapu Fini is used to immediately punish set-up users through its priority Topsy Turvy, but also for breaking through walls using Nature’s Madness and pivoting into an offensive Pokémon to finish the opponent off. Zygarde is a monstrous physical wall that is used to remove entry hazards but also to reflect annoying moves such as Spore, Corrosive Gas, and Entrainment. Thousand Arrows is chosen over Precipice Blades to check Flying-types including Ho-Oh and Celesteela. This core is so powerful due to its lack of weaknesses: Zygarde can cover Ho-Oh’s blatant Electric and Rock weaknesses, while Tapu Fini can take Water-moves to a lesser extent. Likewise, Zygarde can cover Tapu Fini’s Electric and Poison weaknesses whilst Ho-Oh can easily absorb Grass-moves. Zygarde appreciates Ho-Oh to cover its Fairy and 4x Ice weakness, whilst Tapu-Fini is immune to Dragon.

What I lost to whilst laddering:

:xerneas: Opposing Xerneas can serve as a massive threat as Ho-Oh can take its Boombursts but fails to live 2 Fishious Rends. Xerneas can be KO’ed using Chansey and Necrozma, though only if they switch in safely.

:regigigas: As the team lacks Ghost-types and relies on Ho-Oh and Tapu Fini to clear opposing stat boosts, they both fail to live a +3 or more Extreme Speed. This is because Extreme Speed acts before Prankster Topsy Turvy. The only way around +4 or +6 Regigigas is through gambling for an outspeed with Chansey, but after that, a +6 Chansey can win the game.

:kyurem-black: The defensive core relies on each other to cover their weaknesses, but Pokémon with a variety of coverage can take down the core. Bolt-beam coverage is especially detrimental to this core, as all 3 Pokémon are weak to Kyurem’s Ice STAB + Bolt Strike. However, Xerneas’ Extreme Speed can take care of non-Extreme Speed variants whilst Chansey can hopefully outspeed and KO boosted Kyurem.
 
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:xerneas::necrozma-dusk-mane::ho-oh::tapu-fini::zygarde-complete::chansey:
https://pokepast.es/50c6d6d4b84d439a

I want to share the team I built around the ladder to get voting requirements for the Sleep Suspect Test. It is based on the premise of VoltTurning with 3 incredibly strong Pokémon that can tear through entire teams, paired with a defensive core that can absorb hits.

How to Use: Inspired by the infamous Choice-Specs Mega-Diancie from SM Balanced Hackmons, Pixilate Xerneas is an extremely strong attacker that can obliterate the majority of the metagame with its 200+ BP Boomburst. Common Fairy spam counters such as Ho-Oh, Zamazenta, Eternatus, Celesteela, and Solgaleo do not appreciate being 2HKO’ed by V-Create or Fishious Rend. Hence, Xerneas should often be sent in as a lead to get immediate knock-outs or deal immense damage to the opponent’s team early-game. Extreme Speed is useful for revenge-killing weakened Pokémon and countering Normalize Dragapult. Also, Boomburst is appreciated for its power to infiltrate substitutes which Necrozma cannot do. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is a strong partner as it can clean the remainder of the opponent’s team late-game after 1 Simple-boosted Shift Gear. Precipice Blades is to pick up on remaining threats that Xerneas is uncomfortable with, namely Eternatus, Dialga, and Zamazenta-Crowned. Necrozma is also useful to check opposing Xerneas. Sunsteel Strike and Photon Geyser are to counter pesky Sturdy, Endeavor, and Extreme Speed sets which this team otherwise struggles with due to the lack of Status inflicting moves. Imposter Chansey is a brainless staple to most bulky-offense teams to check and punish opposing set-up Pokémon by stealing and outliving their attacks, which otherwise rip through the team without Tapu-Fini. By switching in on opposing Chansey, Aromatherapy is an option for emergency Cleric support and Anchor Shot is for trapping, outliving and KO'ing opposing Chansey. The defensive/volt-turn core of the team is Tapu Fini + Zygarde-Complete + Ho-Oh, each equipped with slow pivot-moves to grab momentum so offensive Pokémon can safely enter. Regenerator Assault Vest Ho-Oh is a premier Special blanket that takes almost no damage from the commonly spammed Special attacks from top-tier threats, such as Xerneas, Eternatus, Triage abusers, Reshiram, and Blacephalon. It can spread burns and damage annoying Steel-types: Zamazenta, Ferrothorn, and Dialga. Ho-Oh also has an element of Imposter-proof and set-up counter, as it can live a Stored Power and steal accumulated stat boosts from Quiver Dance, Geomancy, and Nasty Plot users through Spectral Thief. Tapu Fini is used to immediately punish set-up users through its priority Topsy Turvy, but also for breaking through walls using Nature’s Madness and pivoting into an offensive Pokémon to finish the opponent off. Zygarde is a monstrous physical wall that is used to remove entry hazards but also to reflect annoying moves such as Spore, Corrosive Gas, and Entrainment. Thousand Arrows is chosen over Precipice Blades to check Flying-types including Ho-Oh and Celesteela. This core is so powerful due to its lack of weaknesses: Zygarde can cover Ho-Oh’s blatant Electric and Rock weaknesses, while Tapu Fini can take Water-moves to a lesser extent. Likewise, Zygarde can cover Tapu Fini’s Electric and Poison weaknesses whilst Ho-Oh can easily absorb Grass-moves. Zygarde appreciates Ho-Oh to cover its Fairy and 4x Ice weakness, whilst Tapu-Fini is immune to Dragon.

What I lost to whilst laddering:

:xerneas: Opposing Xerneas can serve as a massive threat as Ho-Oh can take its Boombursts but fails to live 2 Fishious Rends. Xerneas can be KO’ed using Chansey and Necrozma, though only if they switch in safely.

:regigigas: As the team lacks Ghost-types and relies on Ho-Oh and Tapu Fini to clear opposing stat boosts, they both fail to live a +3 or more Extreme Speed. This is because Extreme Speed acts before Prankster Topsy Turvy. The only way around +4 or +6 Regigigas is through gambling for an outspeed with Chansey, but after that, a +6 Chansey can win the game.

:kyurem-black: The defensive core relies on each other to cover their weaknesses, but Pokémon with a variety of coverage can take down the core. Bolt-beam coverage is especially detrimental to this core, as all 3 Pokémon are weak to Kyurem’s Ice STAB + Bolt Strike. However, Xerneas’ Extreme Speed can take care of non-Extreme Speed variants whilst Chansey can hopefully outspeed and KO boosted Kyurem.
You've got a fairly solid set-up there, however your Imposter and set-up counterplay is looking a bit squishy. What happens if an Imposter Chansey switches in on to your own Xerneas or Necrozma as it's setting itself up? Based on what I'm seeing here Imposter will likely claim a kill every time it enters the field on one of your offensive pokemon, and get free healing every time it turns into a defensive pokemon. With regards to Tapu Fini it can just be stopped from healing at all since it's reliant on Strength Sap for recovery. Not having reliable recovery is a bit problematic especially since you are relying on Tapu Fini to stop set-up. Here are a few suggestions you might want to consider:

Xerneas @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Fishious Rend - - -> Volt Switch
- V-create

Ho-Oh @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lava Plume
- Spectral Thief
- Anchor Shot - - -> Nuzzle
- U-turn

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature - - - > Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nature's Madness - - - > Milk Drink
- Topsy-Turvy
- Flip Turn - - - > Parting Shot
- Strength Sap


Zygarde-Complete @ Soft Sand
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Thousand Arrows - - -> Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
- U-turn - - - > Volt Switch

Explanations:
1. Since your team is using regen Ho-Oh as a fairy resist Fishious Rend is a bad idea because then Imposter can just KO your team, thus I recommend swapping that to Volt Switch since it can hit opposing Ho-Oh's for reasonable chip while ensuring your on Ho-Oh doesn't run the risk of getting knocked out by Imposter.

2. While Anchor Shot is useful for the chip, Nuzzle really fits better since you can punish Imposter for staying as Xerneas, and for trying to switch in on Ho-Oh for the recovery. Additionally since you have Zygarde you won't get paralyzed yourself.

3. While Nature's Madness is certainly pretty neat, Tapu Fini really needs reliable recovery to do it's job effectively. Additionally I strongly suggest a Bold Nature since it allow Tapu Fini to reliably survive a +2 Sunsteel from an Imposter Necrozma (
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 271-319 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
and stop it with Strength Sap and Toppsy Turvy.

4. For Zygarde the ability to trap targets with decently powerful ground moves is generally better than the utility offered by Thousand Arrows, additionally Thousand Wave + Volt Switch makes it easy to trap and KO Imposters.
 
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martinvtran

Banned deucer.
You've got a fairly solid set-up there, however your Imposter and set-up counterplay is looking a bit squishy. What happens if an Imposter Chansey switches in on to your own Xerneas or Necrozma as it's setting itself up? Based on what I'm seeing here Imposter will likely claim a kill every time it enters the field on one of your offensive pokemon, and get free healing every time it turns into a defensive pokemon. With regards to Tapu Fini it can just be stopped from healing at all since it's reliant on Strength Sap for recovery. Not having reliable recovery is a bit problematic especially since you are relying on Tapu Fini to stop set-up. Here are a few suggestions you might want to consider:

Xerneas @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Fishious Rend - - -> Volt Switch
- V-create

Ho-Oh @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lava Plume
- Spectral Thief
- Anchor Shot - - -> Nuzzle
- U-turn

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature - - - > Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nature's Madness - - - > Milk Drink
- Topsy-Turvy
- Flip Turn - - - > Parting Shot
- Strength Sap


Zygarde-Complete @ Soft Sand
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Thousand Arrows - - -> Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
- U-turn - - - > Volt Switch

Explanations:
1. Since your team is using regen Ho-Oh as a fairy resist Fishious Rend is a bad idea because then Imposter can just KO your team, thus I recommend swapping that to Volt Switch since it can hit opposing Ho-Oh's for reasonable chip while ensuring your on Ho-Oh doesn't run the risk of getting knocked out by Imposter.

2. While Anchor Shot is useful for the chip, Nuzzle really fits better since you can punish Imposter for staying as Xerneas, and for trying to switch in on Ho-Oh for the recovery. Additionally since you have Zygarde you won't get paralyzed yourself.

3. While Nature's Madness is certainly pretty neat, Tapu Fini really needs reliable recovery to do it's job effectively. Additionally I strongly suggest a Bold Nature since it allow Tapu Fini to reliably survive a +2 Sunsteel from an Imposter Necrozma (
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 271-319 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
and stop it with Strength Sap and Toppsy Turvy.

4. For Zygarde the ability to trap targets with decently powerful ground moves is generally better than the utility offered by Thousand Arrows, additionally Thousand Wave + Volt Switch makes it easy to trap and KO Imposters.
Aww thank you for taking the time to write this. I definitely agree that relying just on Ho-Oh as Imposter counterplay is unreliable. I have always been super careful about setting up with Necrozma whilst the opposing Chansey is still present, however, if I really do need to, then I can sack one Pokémon and go into Tapu Fini. It definitely takes a team effort to deal with Imposter Chansey that is unique to whatever it transforms into. I have changed Fishious Rend to Volt Switch so Xerneas can join the VoltTurn core, because Fishious Rend was honestly used just to combat Ho-Oh and Heatran, which are not the most common Pokémon and Ho-Oh sometimes carries Desolate Land anyway.

I think Nuzzle is a great addition to Ho-Oh, but I lose the capability of trapping + killing. Is it worth it to replace Lava Plume with Magma Storm since I will be using paralysis instead of burn?

I don't know how I feel about Milk Drink and Strength Sap on the same set, but when I use Tapu Fini, Strength Sap is sooooo good. I normally heal 75%+ HP and the Attack drop is so valuable. Also, when I lose Nature's Madness, I feel like Tapu Fini becomes too passive because I relied on Nature's Madness in a lot of matches where I struggle to break through some Pokémon such as Zamazenta-Crowned. Thank you for suggesting the Bold nature, there is no need for more Special Defensive walls when Ho-Oh is so amazing at soaking up Special hits anyway.

I also had some experimentation with Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, and Precipice Blades on Zygarde. Though I found that without grounding Flying Pokémon, I struggle against that typing as a whole. I have no other way of beating opposing Ho-Oh. :blobsad: And is there any benefit of Volt Switch over Teleport, Parting Shot and U-turn? I feel like Volt Switch is the most blockable pivot move.

I have implemented the changes and updated the link, thank you so much!!!
 
Aww thank you for taking the time to write this. I definitely agree that relying just on Ho-Oh as Imposter counterplay is unreliable. I have always been super careful about setting up with Necrozma whilst the opposing Chansey is still present, however, if I really do need to, then I can sack one Pokémon and go into Tapu Fini. It definitely takes a team effort to deal with Imposter Chansey that is unique to whatever it transforms into. I have changed Fishious Rend to Volt Switch so Xerneas can join the VoltTurn core, because Fishious Rend was honestly used just to combat Ho-Oh and Heatran, which are not the most common Pokémon and Ho-Oh sometimes carries Desolate Land anyway.

I think Nuzzle is a great addition to Ho-Oh, but I lose the capability of trapping + killing. Is it worth it to replace Lava Plume with Magma Storm since I will be using paralysis instead of burn?

I don't know how I feel about Milk Drink and Strength Sap on the same set, but when I use Tapu Fini, Strength Sap is sooooo good. I normally heal 75%+ HP and the Attack drop is so valuable. Also, when I lose Nature's Madness, I feel like Tapu Fini becomes too passive because I relied on Nature's Madness in a lot of matches where I struggle to break through some Pokémon such as Zamazenta-Crowned. Thank you for suggesting the Bold nature, there is no need for more Special Defensive walls when Ho-Oh is so amazing at soaking up Special hits anyway.

I also had some experimentation with Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, and Precipice Blades on Zygarde. Though I found that without grounding Flying Pokémon, I struggle against that typing as a whole. I have no other way of beating opposing Ho-Oh. :blobsad: And is there any benefit of Volt Switch over Teleport, Parting Shot and U-turn? I feel like Volt Switch is the most blockable pivot move.

I have implemented the changes and updated the link, thank you so much!!!
IMO that Flare Blitz > Lava Plume or Magma Storm as it has 24pp and relatively higher damage. Trapping moves for RegenVest isn't good as you cannot heal without switching out.

Strength Sap on Tapu Fini will be blocked by Magic Bounce or Dark Type users so adding Milk Drink would be more reliable for healing. Maybe you could add Scald/Moonblast on it by replacing Flip Turn/Strength Sap if you are worrying that it will become too passive.


Thousand Wave on Zygarde can trap imposter or other Pokemons, imposter cannot switch out with Volt Switch so it can be self-improofed. IMO Zygarde is not a good offensive mon that you can rely on it to deal damage to Flying Type.
 

martinvtran

Banned deucer.
IMO that Flare Blitz > Lava Plume or Magma Storm as it has 24pp and relatively higher damage. Trapping moves for RegenVest isn't good as you cannot heal without switching out.

Strength Sap on Tapu Fini will be blocked by Magic Bounce or Dark Type users so adding Milk Drink would be more reliable for healing. Maybe you could add Scald/Moonblast on it by replacing Flip Turn/Strength Sap if you are worrying that it will become too passive.


Thousand Wave on Zygarde can trap imposter or other Pokemons, imposter cannot switch out with Volt Switch so it can be self-improofed. IMO Zygarde is not a good offensive mon that you can rely on it to deal damage to Flying Type.
thank you both!! changes implemented :blobwizard:
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
to add to the above post, blaziken’s fighting stab is not super relevant in bh cause you won’t see many rock types. most of the time you’ll run into resists like etern, fini, and giratina, which cc is doing dismal damage to. blaziken is also really slow compared to entei and victini who outrun xern and the base 90 gang.
 
Further adding to the posts above, keep in mind that this is regular Blaziken as opposed to Mega, thanks to gen 8. Band tinted chicken in gen 7 was a disgusting wallbreaker that was nearly unwallable, but not only did it have 40 attack over regular Blaziken, it had a base 100 speed stat as well, which isn't exactly fast but does outspeed neutral nature mons.
Mega Blaziken would probably still fare pretty well in gen 8 based off sheer firepower alone; faster offensive threats are hard pressed to find an opening on it, and defensive/slower offensive mons would be obliterated by tinted STAB. The issue is that its non-mega form is both too weak and too slow to have much of an impact.
 
Tinted lens V-Create in the sun is beautiful




Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- V-create
- Roost /Morning Sun
- U-turn/Extreme Speed

Obviously run a flash fire / primordial sea partner in case of imposter.

Just a fun tactic, really takes a lot people by surprise. Will 2/ohko a lot of things but obviously very weak to rocks, fur coat dragons, 4x resists, and sometimes requires a turn of setup.

New to the forum. Pleased to meet you all o/

Other Tinted Lens mons I like:
- Banded Skewda in the rain
- Nasty Plot Mewtwo in Psychic Terrain
 
Tinted lens V-Create in the sun is beautiful




Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- V-create
- Roost /Morning Sun
- U-turn/Extreme Speed

Obviously run a flash fire / primordial sea partner in case of imposter.

Just a fun tactic, really takes a lot people by surprise. Will 2/ohko a lot of things but obviously very weak to rocks, fur coat dragons, 4x resists, and sometimes requires a turn of setup.

New to the forum. Pleased to meet you all o/

Other Tinted Lens mons I like:
- Banded Skewda in the rain
- Nasty Plot Mewtwo in Psychic Terrain
I take it that u have something to setup the sun?
 
I take it that u have something to setup the sun?
Yeah, I run a comotose, defog, sunny day, teleport, nuzzle lead. Gives me an opportunity to scout, paralyse something or defog away hazards. It's very one dimensional but it's fun xD

This is my Lugia lead

Lugia @ Heat Rock
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunny Day
- Nuzzle
- Teleport
- Defog
 
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AH thanks for the replys another question How could physical sheer force work like moves like Shadow Bone,Sacred Fire (Not boosted by Tclaws),and Bolt strike or maybe even a mixed Sf set on a mon like Palkia or Blacephalon

There isn't much use for sheer force on Palkia. Running an ability like adaptability, swift swim, tinted, etc is much more useful. Especially with adaptability; 2x STAB on dragon/water coverage that ALSO hits physical and special mons is already more than enough power for most cases. Tapu Fini is honestly the one thing in this meta that really screws Palkia up.

Haven't tried blace but I'm pretty sure adaptability is better on that mon as well. Fire/ghost coverage is insane and blace hits like a truck. All you really need for blacephalon is good speed control or to pivot it into something really slow so it can get a nuke off regardless.
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
well the thing with sheer force this gen is it isn’t 100% outclassed but it can be really hard to fit on mons. if we had an elec poison physical attacker i’d say hell yeah slap bolt strike gunk pyro ice move on that guy and you’re good to go, but the issue is that most moves you’d want to run on your physical guy (vcreate, glance, pblades, sunsteel, cc, rend, wicked blow) are both not sf boosted and significantly stronger than the best sf alternative. basically, fc walls built to take on vcreate/glance abusers will have no problems shrugging off your pyro ball and icicle crash.

i would say the main problem with mixed sf is the existence of ice scales in this gen. in sm bh you could bring the standard 4 atks mmy, bring poison heal/imposter to punish regenvest, bring hazards for shed, and expect to have no problems breaking through. nowadays even with that same mmy, the poison heal/imposter strat doesn’t even work against scales who can trap both. to use an example actually in the game, sf xern is alright cause you can cover hooh and steela in 1 move with bolt strike (unlike other xern sets, who can’t risk hooh living fairy move into coverage and obliterating you, which is why you see rend and dstorm used). so then the obvious third move is earth power, giving amazing coverage against steels as well as fires. the problem is both of those can run scales and wall you out, and if you run pyro last move then a) you click x against scales darm and some other scales users b) you have no recovery, no setup, no hazards, and you die to status and knock c) despite not being “walled” by zamac you are still outsped and take 50 on your mon with no recovery.

so even with what’s considered to be one of the best mixed attackers, going for the “universal wallbreaker” strat leaves you with a mon that is just bad. fortunately that’s not the only way to use sheer force. etern, for example, can screw around with sludge wave/focus blast/hazard (probably rocks)/filler and here you have a wonderful adaptive mon that can work with the needs of its team and exploits the lack of preparation for focus blast. the big difference here is this mon actually works around scales by itself with the hazard idea and can punish passive play especially combined with a xern or other good mon. etern is the only one i could think of but i’m sure there are other cool sf sets out there.
 

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