BH Balanced Hackmons

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Community Leader
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What is Balanced Hackmons?
From a technical standpoint, Balanced Hackmons (BH) is an Other Meta that allows you to use nearly anything possible that you can battle with in a local battle between players, in the most current cartridge.
Conceptually, BH is defined as a sandbox tier where one can use Pokemon to their fullest potential with normal restrictions being removed.

What makes it Balanced?
The removal of abilities, moves or Pokemon that focus the meta only around their use.

Highlights of BH Mechanics:
Here is but a sample of the cool things you can do in BH and nowhere else!
Note: The following is subject to the current banlist. Some mechanics may not be finalized on PS
  • Mix and match mons in any of their usable forms in the game directly!
  • Use (nearly) any Pokemon, Ability, move or item of your choice! If it's coded in the game, you can use it!
  • Make use of as many of the same mon on your team!
  • Make use of Pokemon with maxed out EV's!
Clause and Ban List:
The banlist keeps the"Balanced" in Balanced Hackmons. Here's our interim banlist for the beta BH8 Ladder (this will eventually move to a BH8 Suspects and Bans Thread):

Pokemon
<Nothing to see here>

Moves
  • Chatter
  • OHKO Moves
Abilities
  • Wonder Guard
  • Pure / Huge Power
  • Parental Bond
  • Protean / Libero
  • Shadow Tag/Arena Trap
  • Moody
  • Water Bubble
  • Innards Out
  • Magnet Pull
  • Stakeout
  • Psychic Surge
  • Illusion
  • Contrary
  • Neutralizing Gas (Initial Banlist)
  • Gorilla Tactics
History:
DateAction
Nov 18, 2019[Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons goes live on PokemonShowdown! Initial Banlist Decision Breakdown here
Nov 24, 2019Creation of the Balanced Hackmons Council here
Nov 30, 2019Gorilla Tactics QuickBanned here
Clauses

  • ComaTalk Clause: Sleep Talk can't be run on a Pokemon with the Comatose ability
  • Endless Battle Clause: Forcing an endless battle is banned, similar to the rest of PS
  • Evasion Moves Clause: No moves that can increase Evasion are allowed. This does not include abilities or items that may modify Evasion passively such as Sand Veil or Brightpowder
  • Sleep Clause: Only one Pokemon on the opponent's team can be put to sleep at a time. This excludes self-inflicted sleep or Comatose
Items
<Nothing to see here>

Note: Anything that is included in Gen 7's banlist that wasn't carried over into Gen 8 will be treated as "dormant banned" unless otherwise stated i.e. if these are to return, they will be automatically banned before going forward with new discussion.

Important Links:
<TBA>

Previous Gen(s):
Council:
E4 Flint (TL)
a loser
Funbot28
Willdbeast
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Community Leader
Balanced Hackmons: a Primer
Overview on popular mechanics in the Balanced Hackmons scene!

(construction ongoing - will be moved to BH8's Central Resources)​

  • BH allows the use of anything that is coded in the game. This allows players to use unreleased mons, moves, abilities and items
    • This does not allow the player to use mechanics that were available only in previous gen games
  • The above also means the player can only use 4 moves per Pokermon
  • Pokemon are able to have maxed out EV's
  • Pokemon must abide by their original conditions to acheive their alternate forms
    • For example, the Crowned Forms (Zacian and Zamazenta revert to their original form without their item held) as does Darmanitan-Zen-Galar if you try to set it
    • Also Eternatus-Eternamaxed cannot be used(game crashes if it is put on a player's team)
    • Kyurem forms are usable without any special conditions
  • Hard-coded abilities designated for specific Pokemon can be used on other mons but will not have any effect on them. This includes RKS System, Stance Change, Zen Mode, Forecast, Flower Gift and so forth
  • Some moves are hard-coded for a specific Pokemon (or their Imposters), such as Dark Void and Hyperspace Fury
  • Pokemon that change their forme during battle due to their item can utilize any ability in their base form, but this will be overriden with their new forme's ability
  • Silvally Mechanics: Silvally can be used in any of its forms. Without RKS system it will take on that form's typing, otherwise it will be normal type. See the following:
    • Silvally-Grass with RKS System without Grass Memory -> Normal Type
    • Silvally-Grass with RKS System with Grass Memory -> Grass Type
    • Silvally-Grass with any other ability with any item -> Grass Type
  • Pokemon with Imposter while holding special items retain their item's properties. This includes
    • Stat buffs from items such as Eviolite, Soul Dew, Light Ball, Thick Club, DeepSea items and more
    • Special effects from items such Lucky Punch or Stick
    • Note that this excludes Ditto's special items which are specifically coded to not work when Ditto is in a transformed state.
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Community Leader
Hello everyone. As BH8 is still very much in the beta phase in ironing out final mechanics, we shall be using this thread primarily for all of our discussions until I will create corresponding Gen 8 versions of the Suspects and Bans thread, and the Central Resources thread.
 

GL Volkner

see me rise, sky may fall
is a Tiering Contributor
First thoughts on the generation:

Zacian-Crowned in SWSH BH is far more insane than Primal Groudon in SM BH. Considering that Steel types aren't that amazing (Melmetal and Zamazenta being the main ones since the Aegi nerf) it isn't really that difficult to just straight up win games with this mon, and it doesn't really help that not only is it also able to stay in on Imposter with some sets, but also Imposter in general is a lot less bulky this gen so it can't always switch in. If I'm being honest I'd have my doubts about this mon being legal even in unlimited dex BH. Fuck Zacian.

Dragapult is the new Gengar, yes - But the issue with it is that it's not Zacian lol. Let's be honest, Zacian can run p much whatever the hell it wants, and it has bulk to boot. With Trick or even just "unsets" (as if those exist) like Pixilate or Intreprid Sword w Bullet Punch, Dragapult will have a lot to worry about.

People need to use Zekrom more - but again, it's not Zacian. It needs Terrain support, and takes full damage from Stealth Rock and has to take Toxic Spikes. Even so, the mon w Bolt Beak and Surge Surfer is fucking nuts. There aren't that many good grounds and dragons can't really answer Zekrom that well.

Gyarados isn't awful in rain. The main problem is that with stuff like Zekrom and Eternatus in the meta it has a really hard time getting the OHKOs it wants with Fishious Rend, but neither of these things can switch in unless Prankster.

Court Change is overrated, here's why. Suppose rocks are up on your side. You Court Change. You've only just put rocks up on the opp's side, and you'll just have to deal with them again later. You may not be able to remove them. Court Change is best ran with Defog, but at that point why do you have it?

Eternatus is solid. Or it would be if Zacian wasn't here LOL but Tinted Specs has shown to be good and it removes TSpikes. Defensive sets are fine too.

One last thing before I close out this post - Ability clause just got deleted. Personally I don't think this means much for the meta, but I've been trying to create a multi-Imposter team for shits and giggles so once that's done I'll probably post saying how it went.

That's me byebye

e: ban dynamax
 
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Meet our new Normalize Ghost GL Volkner alluded to, Dragapult:

Dragapult @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Entrainment
- Multi-Attack
- Shift Gear
- Fishious Rend

Man, does Mega Gengar wish it had this guy's speed tier.

Ideally, this guy Entrainments the ability off the opponent fast enough, so I figured I'd go with Fishious Rend instead of a Moldy move. If they've got Magic Bounce, at least Water has no type immunities, unlike Bolt Beak's Electric.

Watch this guy eat Magic Bounce Knock Off, among other things.

On another note, I got to watch some lower-ladder BH games, and even there, No Retreat needs to be paired with a switch-out move, or you're going to eat a Spectral Thief/Topsy-Turvy and screw yourself over. Clangorous Soul looks great with Poison Heal or maybe recovery, though.
 
at least Water has no type immunities, unlike Bolt Beak's Electric.
With normalize its going to be normal type anyway no matter what is the base type. I wouls also argue about putting taunt instead since it can block a few things the set can struggle with.
Edit: lol I didnt read the 'if entrained' Inore thsi part.

Anyway having only ghost as ofensive move is not that bad since (until now) no good normal type is running in the meta and just a few dark types, anyway one of the main dark types (the old gold tyranitar) is resistant to normal type in case extra offensive move given to dragapult
 
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I’m rather sad: all the nicest pokes were removed. Especially my favourite PixilateESpeed MDiancie.
Speaking of which Mega Evolutions and Z-moves are not allowed here as well, right?
 
  • Love
Reactions: OM!
That is correct, we will be sticking to what is coded in the game.
Lame. Sticking with whats in the game in a meta that isn't even playable in game. Why reduce potential metagame variety just because GameFreak decided to limit the dex? Its one thing if this was a real meta, that is based directly on coded information, like OU, but it isn't, so why should this meta retain those limitations?
 
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1574267117856.png

This doggo might be the first dog that needs to go.

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike / Double Iron Bash
- V-create / Play Rough
- Bolt Beak / Precipice Blades / Photon Geyser / Close Combat
- Trick / Stealth Rock / What else does this even need?

Well, the dog doesn't really need to go but I couldn't resist the pun. But Gorilla Tactics, as fun as it is to use, is incredibly restricting on this brand new meta that lacks the choice of walls the previous generation had.

The premier choice of walls for this set include but aren't limited to Zamazenta, Melmetal, and Toxapex. The first two prefer to run Fur Coat to have a shot at walling sets that don't use V-create as coverage while Toxapex prefers to run Prankster.

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zamazenta-Crowned: 328-386 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Melmetal: 330-390 (69.6 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 223-264 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 402-474 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Bolt Beak (85 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Assuming Pex moved first with Prankster Strength Sap)

If you want other ways to wall this mon, you can opt for things like Volt Absorb/Levitate Toxapex, Fur Coat/Volt Absorb Golisopod, or Levitate/Fur Coat Reshiram or Zekrom, but each of these can still be defeated by the right coverage. Either Pex set loses to Thousand Arrows or Photon Geyser and Fur Coat Golisopod takes 81.9 - 96.6% from Bolt Beak and is even a 2HKO by V-create after any chip. Levitate Reshiram and Zekrom also hate Thousand Arrows and are 2HKO and OHKO by Play Rough, respectively. Fur Coat Resh/Zek are both 2HKO at best by the right coverage. Not to mention that each of these options outside of Reshiram aren't doing much back to Zacian other than fishing for a Scald burn or hoping to chip Zacian some before it just switches out.

Imposter users can force Zacian out if they happen to come in safely, but that doesn't happen often from what I've seen in this meta other than on turn one. Imposter users most definitely cannot safely switch in to an incoming attack, though. Wobbuffet is cleanly OHKO by V-create and cleanly 2HKO by Sunsteel Strike. Eviolite Munchlax is also cleanly OHKO by V-create, is cleanly 2HKO by Precipice Blades, and has a 42.2% chance to be 2HKO by Sunsteel.

Basically, this mon is extremely fast and either 2HKOs or OHKOs the entire meta fairly easily and causes a panic each time it gets a free turn, which is often. Without Gorilla Tactics, it will still be a very dangerous threat while also being much less restricting on the meta. Intrepid Sword is another conversation to have, but it at least can be hazed, sapped, or stolen.

1574270069400.png

Gorilla Tactics Zacian also severely limits its doggo counterpart, Zamazenta, to basically one set in Fur Coat. While this set is great already and is also imposing on the meta with Body Press, this mon is almost forced to run it and be present on every team. It takes away from other potential sets Zama could run with its choice of almost any other defensive (or offensive) ability.
 
Sleep still exists without a clause on the ladder and that needs to go ASAP.

I think v-create is actually a huge problem since it hits almost all mons above 600 BST SE and close to one shots everything else. If I really wanted to I could probably make a sun team around gorrila tactics vcreate and completely tear through pretty much any stall team in the meta.

Body press is insanely hard to stop because it deals >50% to nearly all defensive mons I have tried even unboosted. It basically mandates any stall team has aegislash because haze is completely inadequate to deal with it and many fur coat users still struggle with it. Burn is completely ineffectual at stopping it and its really hard to take down a mon with cotton guard and fur coat up so I have spent many games just trying to pp stall it which is honestly ridiculous. You know its bad when people are running soak zamazenta.

Gorilla Tactics and Intrepid Sword are unbelievably broken. pls stop.

I really dislike banning mons on principle but i can see the argument for why Zacian needs to go. It's kind of stupid honestly.

Bolt beak- why is this allowed?



If I had to choose which of these to ban first there is no question in my mind that it is body press. I have seen teams with 6 mons running body press and peaking and there is a reason for that. It is almost impossible to check when your opponent can just run a bunch of fur coat and scrappy zazmantas and it completely centralizes team building. I've played about 100 games on the ladder so far and in those games these threats have been the ones that have obviously stood out to me as bannable
 
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Thoughts on the meta rn:

actually burn does halve the damage body press users do to you, and I run prankster WoW on my prankster users to get it activated. At least that's how it works on the simulator. I've also tried out eviolite prankster Doublade which has even better physical bulk than Aegi. Haven't found much use for special bulk rn on my Prank users, FF Ferro holds against most of that shit including Hydreigon, MMY with Sheer Force, Darm-Z...

I do agree about Zac. I've heard a lot about the Guerilla Tactics set, and I've also had a lot of success running Technician Shell Smash with: Bonemerang, Double Iron Bash, Shell Smash and filler. I run Knock off to give utility before I am ready to set up because Zac forces so many switches that you can just knock random stuff off.

Darm-Z-G (darmanitan-zen-galar) is a cool threat with 160 atk and 135 Spe. Pretty much a cooler Kyurem-B because Dragon/Ice is a fairly redundant typing. Fire/Ice is way better, and Darm-ZG is a lot quicker. I've been running no retreat/pyro ball/multi attack/sunsteel @ Ground Memory (sadly, this set is not self improof because Darm-ZG is ohkoed by Pyro Ball). I use FF Ferro to improof this as well, and the Ground Memory lets me hit Toxapex though Bolt Beak can do this as well. Ground Memory just hits the Prankster set harder after a haze.
But I could see a choiced Guerilla/IS set working as well, though Icicle Crash is a fairly weak move, and there are plenty of Ice resists running around rn.

Imposter: Imposter both gained and lost this meta. On the positive side, the meta is a lot more offensive which means that Imposter can often countersweep after a few shaky Improofs get removed or things get paralyzed. Pikachu @ Light Ball is very scary with support. The con is that without Chansey and blissey, it's a good deal less bulky, with people resorting to Wobbafat @ Choice Scarf or Munchlax at Eviolite. Pretty sure Scarf is just better right now.

Double Iron Bash is really tough to deal with after setup like Smash or Shift Gear, because you often have to risk your wall flinching (51% chance), unless it's Prankster, and that can be easily punished with a double. It also breaks Focus Sash, so teams can't use Sash Spectral Thief to stop sweepers using it.
 
Agreed with most of what was said, with the absence of the omnipresent walls of last gen(Gira, Registeel, POgre, Mag, MAudino etc) defensive options are a lot more limited.

A few thoughts are

1. Sleep Clause ASAP, I think it's been discussed already far too much last gen

2. Intrepid Sword and Gorilla tactics are both abilities that should be discussed, the former more than the latter, however. I'm not too sure on whether Zacian itself is the main problem in terms of being able to abuse these abilities but I'll need to play more to make a judgment.

3. With blissey and chansey being gone imposter needs to find new users so with some calcs I started to look for some replacements which come down to Wobbuffet for obvious reasons and the next best eviolite user which ends up being munchlax, unless there's a new mon I forgot about.

Using magearna to model for Zacian(gorilla tactics choice band ), Eviolite munchlax is 2hkoed by sunsteel and PBlades

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Magearna Sunsteel Strike vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 237-279 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Wobbufet is 2hko'd too and potentially dies to Pblades
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Magearna Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 354-417 (60.6 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Magearna Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 566-668 (96.9 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

but can OHKO back
+1 252+ Atk Magearna Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 378-446 (97.4 - 114.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
so just bringing up that idk if you know this yet, but turns out just because a move has a description aside from "delete asap" doesn't mean its usable.


guy hacks in darkrai, ominous wind provides the "Delete asap" message, dark void does not, both are not usable.

basically, id bring ALL moves with no learners onto the table. some exaples of big staples that might go missing: Geomancy, V-create, diamond storm, tail glow, to name a few. another thing to note, is darkrais move data still applies to the pikachu-darkrai hybrid. so dark void should still treat it as a darkrai, thus, allow it to use the move.
 
I would say that in its current state the meta is nearly unplayable. BH has a history of having really long suspects but I think it's at the point where so much stuff needs to get fixed that we should look at the option of quick banning several things so the meta can actually be somewhat serviceable.
 
sword and shield really changed the metagame a lot.......all the good mons gone but i do have a few suggestions for substitution. (lol its gonna be worse)

NormGar to Dragapult: both ghosts are super fast, as Dragapult is even faster, I think it does a better job on spamming entrainment on low ladder. however as it got a damn 100 spA from 170 it's gonna boost quite a bit before it can efficiently sweep. Also as this gen introduces the overpowered Zacian-crowned and its still faster than our ghostly dragon it's not gonna be as useful as u thought.

Prankster/Mbounce/FlashFireSteel/Fur Coat: These are basically on mons that got huge sheer bulk, exact mon depends on yr team, but same again LOTS of those have been removed. ones that remain include Golisopod, Snorlax, Melmetal, Zamazenta, Hippowdon???, Solgaleo, Steelix (poor no mega), Toxapex and...idk

Aegislash got nerfed i kinda dont wanna use it

also ICE SCALES IS OUT BOIS so things like Melmetal, Golisopod get huge buffs in stalling. Zamazenta also get an alternative of being specially defensive if its pretending to be fur coat Steelix

I changed Reshiram for some Primogres, namely PHeal Qdance, Im not sure on RegenVest as it kinda lacks a bit bulk...

Onto the legendaries, Kyurems are 'unreleased' atm but ofc I'm spamming those refrigerators. I currently don't see anything that completely checks/walls it as they could be priority specs scarf mixed... that looks scary

Ho-Oh, Dialga, Giratina, Xerneas, Yveltal, Regigigas, all the good old mons gone rip (megas mega rip)
Zacian-Crowned is definitely gonna dominate the meta (at least for a while)

Honestly all the removed mons punched a rly big hole here, im looking forward to seeing how the gen8 bh beta will change

(Also give respect to gamefreak they didnt remove the 1hp god)
 
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6E0AF4FE-08A7-40E1-BDF9-34042B8A2B72.png

Corsola-Galar @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Roost
- Aromatherapy/whatever
- Haze

ive had a lot of success with this set so far in the early metagame. So far I’ve seen a lot of set up, and with ability ingoring Moves running around I think prank haze is really good. Walls some Zamazenta sets, and is great support. There probably is a better user for this set, but this is what ive used so far
 
I've tooled around a little bit with some silly stuff on the meta so far, mainly spamming a bad 6 Banded Intrepid Sword Zacian team because I am everything that is wrong with the world. I don't see reason to take things too seriously until the coding's all done and we're certain whether the "Delete plz" moves are usable or not. (Hoping not because I've love to see stuff like Sunsteel Strike go die in a fire.)

One note, while Cotton Guard Body Press is annoying, it's seemingly best user, currently, is Zamazenta. One super overlooked move to help deal with it is... Sacred Sword. It's been a kinda crummy move most of the time its existed in BH, but it shines against Body Press Zama since it both ignores Cotton Guard boosts and is super effective. My cancer wolves can nearly OHKO Zama with the move. I'm sure something with STAB that sets up along Zamza or runs a Sash to set up in its face could trivially OHKO.

Not saying that makes Body Press shennanigans "not broken" or not (way too early to tell), but it is an option.

There's also Chip Away, but lolChipAway.


Also, Shedinja seems to be a hard stop to any Dynamax shenannigans, or at least most. Outside of Max Ice/Rock moves weather (which it can Goggle), there aren't any normal Max moves that hurt Shedinja. There might be a G-Max move I'm overlooking, however. Dynamax regardless feels manageable currently, as Max moves are a heck of a lot easier to tank than Z-moves and the Dynamax Pokemon loses all of its utility moves, like Taunt, Recover, status, pivoting, etc. Also some mons (fairies, dragons, ice, rocks) also risk taking an effective pre-STAB, pre-item, pre-ability, pre-boost BP 400 attack from Behemoth Blade, Dynamax Cannon, and... Zama's move whose name I forget if they go giant. Ouch!
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
sword and shield rly changed the metagame a lot.......all the good mons gone but i do hv a few suggestions for substitution. (lol its gonna be worse)
btw we can use 'unreleased' mons currently, like reshiram but they technically arent in SwSh... can someone confirm if it is a bug thx


NormGar to Dragapult: both ghosts are super fast, as Dragapult is even faster, I think it does a better job on spamming entrainment on low ladder. however as it got a damn 100 spA from 170 it's gonna boost quite a bit before it can efficiently sweep. Also as this gen introduces the overpowered zacian-crowned and its still faster than our ghostly dragon it's not gonna be as useful as u thought.

Prankster/Mbounce/FlashFireSteel/Fur Coat: These are basically on mons that got huge sheer bulk, exact mon depends on yr team, but same again LOTS of those have been removed. ones that remain include golisopod, snorlax, melmetal, zamazenta?, hippowdon????, solgaleo, steelix (poor no mega), toxapex (im not saying its good in gen7 ok) and...idk

Aegislash got nerfed i kinda dont wanna use it

also ICE SCALES IS OUT BOIS so things like Melmetal, Golisopod get huge buffs in stalling. Zamazenta also get an alternative of being specially defensive if its pretending to be fur coat Steelix

I changed Reshiram for some Primogres, namely PHeal Qdance, im not sure on RegenVest as it kinda lacks a bit bulk...

Onto the legendaries, Kyurems are 'unreleased' atm but ofc I'm spamming those refrigerators. I currently don't see anything that completely checks/walls it as they could be priority specs scarf mixed... that looks scary

Ho-Oh, Dialga, Giratina, Xerneas, Yveltal, Regigigas, all the good old mons gone rip (megas mega rip)
Zacian-Crowned is definitely gonna dominate the meta (at least for a while)

Honestly all the removed mons punched a rly big hole here, im looking forward to seeing how the gen8 bh beta will change

(Also give respect to gamefreak they didnt remove the 1hp god)
resh, zek, kyurem, bulbasaur line, squirtle line, celebi, mew, mewtwo, jirachi, the muskateers+keldeo, rowlette line, popillio line, and litten line, cosmog, solgaleo, lunala, necrozma, and melmetal line (lol we almost thought they weren't in the game) have been confirmed to be in the games code, likely being stuff you can bring over from pokemon home/ obtain via event. if we can hack them in via gameshark-like-methods, we can use them in BH.
 
some exaples of big staples that might go missing: Geomancy, V-create, diamond storm, tail glow, to name a few.
notably v-create and accelerock are both 100% functional
i think this is already in showdown? but not sure
EDIT: I want to share a set that I used to really good success in BH Beta, but hasn't been working with the bulkier current meta - Unburden Darm!
1574478655248.png
Darmanitan-Zen-Galar @ Psychic Seed / Normal Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs / Earthquake / Bolt Beak / Fake Out
- Spore / Lovely Kiss / Bolt Beak

V-Create isn't strong enough to OHKO Zam without sun boost (or Etern without Psysurge Max Psychic Fangs) - but dynamaxed Darm-Z-G is real strong. Dynamaxed Darmanitan-Z-G notably survives a +2 DIB from Zacian (without Rocks) and proceeds to OHKO. Get Unburden up, then sweep teams with a weakened defensive core. Speed Boost is probably better - but Unburden is improofed. Also, Photon Geyser turns into a special move if dynamaxed (at least on showdown) so Psychic Fangs are prefrered.
Anything that resists V-Create can take on this set, so a partner like Mold Breaker Scarf Darm-Z-G or Zacian is preferred. This set may not even need Unburden if on a Webs team, outspeeding Zacian without the ability.
 
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I've tooled around a little bit with some silly stuff on the meta so far, mainly spamming a bad 6 Banded Intrepid Sword Zacian team because I am everything that is wrong with the world. I don't see reason to take things too seriously until the coding's all done and we're certain whether the "Delete plz" moves are usable or not. (Hoping not because I've love to see stuff like Sunsteel Strike go die in a fire.)

One note, while Cotton Guard Body Press is annoying, it's seemingly best user, currently, is Zamazenta. One super overlooked move to help deal with it is... Sacred Sword. It's been a kinda crummy move most of the time its existed in BH, but it shines against Body Press Zama since it both ignores Cotton Guard boosts and is super effective. My cancer wolves can nearly OHKO Zama with the move. I'm sure something with STAB that sets up along Zamza or runs a Sash to set up in its face could trivially OHKO.

Not saying that makes Body Press shennanigans "not broken" or not (way too early to tell), but it is an option.

There's also Chip Away, but lolChipAway.


Also, Shedinja seems to be a hard stop to any Dynamax shenannigans, or at least most. Outside of Max Ice/Rock moves weather (which it can Goggle), there aren't any normal Max moves that hurt Shedinja. There might be a G-Max move I'm overlooking, however. Dynamax regardless feels manageable currently, as Max moves are a heck of a lot easier to tank than Z-moves and the Dynamax Pokemon loses all of its utility moves, like Taunt, Recover, status, pivoting, etc. Also some mons (fairies, dragons, ice, rocks) also risk taking an effective pre-STAB, pre-item, pre-ability, pre-boost BP 400 attack from Behemoth Blade, Dynamax Cannon, and... Zama's move whose name I forget if they go giant. Ouch!
Spectral Thief trumps Sacred Sword. Now you are a wall to it, and to the next Physical threat on their team... Also (Sniper/Technician) Critical Hits off of Storm Throw is way better than Sacred Sword because if you have -Atk from King’s Shield, Strength Sap, Topsy Turvey, you can bypass negative nerfs on your Pokémon’s stats. (Throh, naturally, learns this move in Gen 8 via leveling-up).

Even without a boosting ability, it matches the power of Sacred Sword.
View attachment 207637
Corsola-Galar @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Roost
- Aromatherapy/whatever
- Haze

ive had a lot of success with this set so far in the early metagame. So far I’ve seen a lot of set up, and with ability ingoring Moves running around I think prank haze is really good. Walls some Zamazenta sets, and is great support. There probably is a better user for this set, but this is what ive used so far
I thought of this Pokemon, but I still think it’s too weak in bulk due to low HP. Keep in perspective how Eviolite Type: Null is about = to Arceus in bulk, but vulnerable to Knock Off, Trick, etc. plus it cannot use the item slot to use Poison Heal, Safety Goggles, etc.

Consider this:

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Diamond Storm
- Spectral Thief
- Shift Gear

With Eviolite 414 HP, 508 Defense, 310 SpD

With Dynamax on Diamond Storm, due to triggering Sandstorm - it doubles HP, it gains 50% SpD, and boosts Shore Up to 66.67% recovery, not to mention the weather damage handles Shedinja.

So 828 HP, 508 Defense, 465 SpD

Outside of Dynamax, Diamond Storm doubles Def.

414 HP, 1016 Def, 465 S

Here is the raw base stat:

105 HP / 120 Atk / 130 Def / 45 Spe

Consider Ice Scales, which doesn’t double SpD, but rather cuts your opponent’s SpA. In either case, damage is half, so I may as double SpD to 930 SpD.

All without breaking a sweat.

Rhydon is probably the top non-Imposter Eviolite and can tank Fire, Rock, Poison, Normal, Flying, and Electric.

——————

Also— Zacian... who?

I assume you picked Kyu-B here for its equal base Attack to Zacian, but this calc is not relevant in the current meta. Zacian will likely be Choice Band with Gorilla Tactics or Intrepid Sword, or boosted to +2 with Shell Smash. All of these equal a 2HKO for FC Doublade. This puts it in the same boat is Melmetal and Zamazenta.

Also, the Gen 8 forum opened up here so you could probably move the discussion to it now.
Hey! I didn’t want to consider the abilities bc they are on the watchlist to be banned...

Still, Choice Band and Shell Smash are a factor.

——————

Omg! I just realized! The best counter is STANDARD Darm-Z! Fur Coat and it blocks Fire, Steel, Fighting, Fairy, and packs STAB Fire in return. I guess it takes an old favorite to wall a new “over-powered”.

Put that sword down Zacian! Darm-Z has got a bottle of L’Oréal for its thick Fur Coat, and it isn’t getting brushed aside!

You got a crown? Darm-Z will still take you down!

View attachment 207934

Ya it’s a 93.3% for a 4HKO, with Sunsteel, Hustle, Life Orb.

Darm—Z was a Z before Zacian!

As for Hustle Choice Band... a guaranteed 3HKO on Sunsteel. Talk about PP stalling.

View attachment 207938

No wonder it has a cousin in the Galar region, Darm-Z ain’t scared of nobody! It’s staying in Zen Mode!

Hustle = Gorilla Tactics/Intrepid Sword. Ya, now I considered Band and potentially banned abilities. I got that on but Darm-Z just chilling like it don’t care.

P.S. Yes, I did change it’s type, look at the screenshot closely ;). We done? Cuz Zacian got toasted!

Speaking of toasted, look at this calc:

252 SpA Darmanitan-Zen Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyurem-Black: 320-380 (82.4 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Recoil off Life Orb just ended this whole Box Legend man’s career.

No Thank You! Zacian!

Nneexxtt!

Yes Tank You! Darm-Z.

A new King of Walls has emerged! And that King of Swords is dethrowned!
 
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With Dynamax on Diamond Storm, due to triggering Sandstorm - it doubles HP, it gains 50% SpD, and boosts Shore Up to 66.67% recovery, not to mention the weather damage handles Shedinja.
Apparently, "Shore Up does not exist in Gen8."
"Bonemerang does not exist in Gen 8."
"Steam Eruption does not exist in Gen 8."
can anyone give a full list of the updated moves? im begging that it is a bug

EDIT: is ice face exclusive to Eiscue like disguise to Mimikyu does? it didn't specify like "If Eiscue", and changing Eiscue's form involves a stat change
 
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1015139775

Why is it that someone who can copy a mon 6 times can beat someone who has an actual team? Pretty much sums up how awful gen 8 is.

Can we at least consider banning forms of setup. Like I mean last gen we decided to go after shed (which went extremely well I hear) and now this gen they took away all the walls with base stat totals above 600 and crammed a bunch of OP breakers and moves down our throats. The problem is if anything multiple times worse than it was in the (already bad) last gen.
 
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