BH Balanced Hackmons

I made this I dunno if it's good:psyduck::
Leechsola (Corsola-Galar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Bad Dreams
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Infestation
- Leech Seed

Igloo (Darmanitan-Galar-Zen) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn

Bork (Zamazenta-Crowned) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Behemoth Bash
- High Jump Kick

Tyranilinks (Tyranitar) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Substitute
- Power Trip
- Stored Power

Woof Souls (Zacian-Crowned) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Spirit Break
- Fishious Rend
- U-turn

ImGonnaSwing (Chandelure) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fusion Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Shell Smash
- Clear Smog

PokePaste
 
I've been playing around with the meta a bit and used the following to some good:

black days (Umbreon) @ Mail
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Baton Pass
- Soft-Boiled

It hard walls dragapult and its natural bulk + typing makes it a good pivot (similar to Yveltal). I tried Mandibuzz before using Umbreon, but Mandi felt a bit off in testing. Mail is the only thing I know of this gen that prevents trick.

jellybaby (Jellicent) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Spite / Filler
- Baton Pass
- King's Shield

Jellicent isn't too terrible. The water/ghost typing helps it immensely. It can take most Zacian, but needs a bit of help usually to wall it completely. The best working set I've found so far is PH.

Zacian is really over-centralizing though, to play the broken record again.
 
For Rhydon I would suggest a Rock move like Stone Edge or Rock Tomb to lower Speed on foes, for Sandstream under Dynamax, with Fur Coat or Ice Scales. 508 Defense after Eviolite with a neutral nature is just bulky enough off of 414 HP to not require Fur Coat, which means that 310 SpD from Eviolite (+ Sandstream = 465) is very much going to make a huge difference for whether you want to use Ice Scales or Fur Coat.

Special Attackers are pretty limited this generation, so I think Fur Coat works better. Plus, if you need Special Defense, you can just summon Sandstream via Dynamax and keep Fur Coat.

My tip is to consider its typing. Technically, you could also run Prankster and Electrify to block Zacian, and Zamazenta from using moves against it as it’s a Ground-type.
I'm using it similarly to Rhyperior RN

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Accelerock
- Earthquake
- Recover
- U-turn

Prankster+Electrify tho is not useful imho. Yeah, I block their moves, but the second I try to do something else i get bopped, since Rock dies to Steel (and Fighting, damned body press XD)
Ice Scales is almost useless. There are like 4 special mons in the meta. Reshiram, Mewtwo (with psystrike), Eternatus. And Darmanitan-Zen that mainly uses special attacks to counter Zacian. But they are really not in every team, so I found that IS is useless like 4 times out of 5.

I think I won't try to create a decent team until Zacian (and possibly Zamazenta?) get out of the meta. So many mons and strategies are literally useless with 2-6 Z-doggos in the enemy team.
 
While there is much to consider in this early meta, the council has been discussing some of the more prominent threats and has decided to ban Gorilla Tactics.

This “Choice Band” ability combined with a Choice Band allows some of the strongest physical attackers in the meta to blow past would be checks with high powered STAB and coverage moves. Most abusers opt for Fire- and/or Ground-type coverage to take advantage of the common Steel- and Poison-type walls. This ability practically mandates Fur Coat be run to have a chance at stopping it or forces a guessing game to check it with abilities like Flash Fire or Levitate. Would-be checks are easily removed if the wrong move is guessed. We find that the ability itself is banworthy rather than its abusers, with Zacian-Crowned being the most popular at the moment.

We are still discussing taking action on things like Double Iron Bash, as it is mainly uncompetitive with its coin flip rate of flinching along with having high base power, as well as Intrepid Sword, which is similar to Gorilla Tactics but can at least be removed with things like Haze, Spectral Thief, and Strength Sap.

Tagging The Immortal to implement this.
 
My questions instead will be why not banning Zacian Crowned, lol. Not because it abused GT, but because it is the only mon worth using. I mean, 6 Zacian Crowned are literally a viable tactics, and it makes the meta so flat.
I can see why GT was removed. Rip all my teams HAHAHAHA
Yeah, Intrepid Sword has MUCH more counterplay than GT.
Also, I thought that Double Iron Bash was already banned and finding it on the ladder was a bug HAHA! That also has to go, relying this much to rng is bad for any meta.
 
After messing around in BH this meta I brainstormed and tested a few sets I thought were interesting and/or anti-meta. This is my first forum post here so go easy on me lol. Of course, suggestions are appreciated.

Darmanitan-Zen @ Leppa Berry/Charcoal/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare/Lava Plume
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
- Strength Sap

Basically hard walls both Zac and Zama, can SSap to survive a quake from Zac/Darm-ZG or to heal, stall DMax with subs+avoid Imposter (which it can stall out with the Leppa Berry if they switch in before sub is out) and can wall opposing special attackers with QD and sweep. Timid to outspeed Jolly Zac at +2. Reshiram is another pokemon I used with this set but it isnt as good of a switch in to Body Press or Fairy moves and struggles vs Eternatus, but is better against other non-dragon pokes. Chandelure is less bulky than both but has the best typing for sure. Of course the item is super up for debate as it's a bit situational but it's the only way I can run the full moveset without screwing myself by running out of PP, unless you run flamethrower instead. Once it gets going it's extremely hard to stop though, especially since the meta isn't as prepared for a special attacker like this.
EDIT: Lava Plume is what I use now. 24pp/100acc makes it super reliable, but that scald burn chance is the real deal. The power loss can be made up for slightly with Charcoal. or you can run Rocky Helmet to supplement the burns and Saps. Added all to the set options.

Also a set that I think can counter most physical attackers on paper, but probably needs some experimentation before it really does anything substantial.

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Shed Shell
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Body Press
- Strength Sap
- King's Shield

In theory, any physical attacker that can't 2HKO should die. and one that can't OHKO should still lose because sap+shield, but both Body Press Fur Coat/Prankster Zama and V Create do a number to this set. Perhaps Doublade or Pex would work better, but I chose Zama cause it has better speed for SSap. Shell to escape opposing trappers and Imposter, but again very up for debate, and not needed if you use Blade>Zama. I have yet to see discussion regarding PBody but it's an ability thats crazy enough to warrant discussion IMO. The problem is once they know the set, they will know not to use physical attacks on it, but with the centralization around physical attackers, its easier said than done and needs to always be on the opponents mind, especially with BPress allowing it to not be passive and still attack.

Finally a meme set that I didn't think would work but does? Featuring the most loved/hated doggo and is my lead most of the time

Zacian-Crowned @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Dynamic Punch
- Zap Cannon
- Court Change

Fastest mon besides Ninjask (lol) so who better than Zac to abuse paraflinch? Anything slower you just go for DPunch into Bash. Faster ones or opposing Zacs you ZCannon and Dpunch or Bash. Court change to stop opposing leads that set up hazards. Pretty straightforward but really dumb set that works extremely well when it does, but is kinda luck dependent. Still rather uncompetitive though, tbh. Lum Berry for imposter of course, in case you couldn't tell how over-prepared I am for it.
 
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So I think I found something that will change Balanced Hackmons...
Just to test if this actually worked, I genned in 3 mons: a permanent Zacian-Crowned, a permanent Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, and an Eternatus-Eternamax, and I did a local battle with my friend to test them out.
The results: not only did all of those mons show up as their normal forms, ie. regular Zacian, regular Darmanitan-Galar, and regular Eternatus in the PC where I genned them to, but they showed up like that in a local battle, which means that these forms cannot exist outside of battle. I understand Eternamax Eternatus cannot exist outside of battle period, but I didn't expect the other mons to not show up.
Do with this what you will, but if we're going to keep Balanced Hackmons to what's usable in game, we should prevent these mons from being used in Balanced Hackmons, just like Eternamax Eternatus.

From my tests, the forms are hard-coded to specific conditions. Someone in another thread was asking for a screenshot, so here's one comparing my results in PKHeX to my results in-game:

pkhex in game comparison.png

as you can see, the mons in pkhex have their busted forms (the small black circle in eternatus is eternamax btw), but in game, they appear as their regular forms. the zacian that was supposed to have pure power has intrepid sword, and the zen galar darm has gorrila tactics and keeps that in game. eternamax has pressure so no bs there.

basically i think gf put in some kind of mega hack check that instantly reverses any specific circumstance form to their original form.
sword and shield doggo still can use their busted forms, but they need to hold the sword/shield respectively, which means no band/scarf/sash/etc.

eternamax is probably specifically meant for that one battle and has no backsprite at all, so even if you could use it, the game would most definitely crash once it got sent out

also for silvally, silvally's type only changes if it has a memory and rks system, otherwise it will be pure normal, no matter what type it looks like. wishiwashi can stay in its baby form above level 20 if it doesnt have schooling, however schooled washi wont work as shown by sword doggo and a n g e r y snowman.

ill get back with some testing on morpeko and cramorant

edit: okay back with some more mons, genned in a lot this time for testing purposes
2019120114202600-B8FAEF4816CAC2B76D11869B05CA7601.jpg

no pkhex comparison cus the first image basically sums up everything
basically its confirmed, in battle forms cannot be genned in and battled with unless they meet a certain condition. i also found out that zacian and zamazenta can have whatever ability they want in game, but the item basically locks you into intrepid sword/dauntless shield which sucks if intrepid sword is getting banned cus that means sword doggo gotta go

another really interesting thing i found is that silvally actually can use different types without rks system
i had a normalize entrainment set on silvally-ghost without rks system or ghost memory and used entrainment on a wild mon to give it normalize
every move it used had no effect. so that confirms that silvally can use different types and they stay that type even without rks system/memory
someone should tag The Immortal and get that changed right away because that could be huge.

so tl;dr, no perma zacian/zamazenta crowned, need item and is forced to use intrepid sword/dauntless shield, no permanent out of battle forms like permanent megas in gens 6/7 and silvally can be any type without a memory or rks system.

just remember that all this only applies to swsh, usum oras bw all that stuff this new info does not apply to! just making sure were all on the same page okay
 
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Absolutely agree with gorilla tactics being banned; there's a fur coat user on every good team at the moment. Even despite that, physical wallbreakers are running rampant and I've been abusing them myself.
Would also agree with a double iron bash ban if we're not going to just ban zacian-crown. The flinch rate on that move is simply too good and should have been left in let's go
 

The Immortal

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So I think I found something that will change Balanced Hackmons...
Just to test if this actually worked, I genned in 3 mons: a permanent Zacian-Crowned, a permanent Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, and an Eternatus-Eternamax, and I did a local battle with my friend to test them out.
The results: not only did all of those mons show up as their normal forms, ie. regular Zacian, regular Darmanitan-Galar, and regular Eternatus in the PC where I genned them to, but they showed up like that in a local battle, which means that these forms cannot exist outside of battle. I understand Eternamax Eternatus cannot exist outside of battle period, but I didn't expect the other mons to not show up.
Do with this what you will, but if we're going to keep Balanced Hackmons to what's usable in game, we should prevent these mons from being used in Balanced Hackmons, just like Eternamax Eternatus.
This has been confirmed and will be implemented as soon as possible.

Also, please stop using this thread for mechanics questions. Use the OM Index or the mechanics thread in Orange Islands.
 
I feel like we should talk about Dragapult, the black horse of Gen 8 Balanced Hackmons.

If you've played BH at all in the past, you'd probably know about the reign of Normalize Mega Gengar. Well, Dragapult replaces it now while boasting even more Speed, marginally more bulk, and a suitable replacement to Spooky Plate + Judgement with Ghost Memory + Multi-Attack. It's a Pokemon that every team and player has to know about or risk being completely steamrolled by due to how difficult it is to take out through normal means.

Oh yeah, speaking of which: Not only is Pursuit inaccessible in Generation 8 to more easily dispose of this set, but Foresight as well. Fun times await.



Normal Lock @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Entrainment
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Multi-Attack

This set is essentially the tier's new Mega Gengar, except this time it's arguably better. The set works by passing Entrainment to the opponent with your nearly-unmatched Speed, forcing all of their attacks to fail against you. After that, you set up to gain a Speed boost so that the opponent cannot attempt to outspeed you with the likes of Scarf or x2 Speed effects while you continue the loop. Shell Smash gives the best boosts at the cost of some of your Defense and SpDef, which shouldn't matter so much if you can keep the loop going. Substitute is a perfect tool for Dragapult to use, as it blocks the opponent's attempts in trying to cheese out the set through unprepared means such as Choice Scarf or priority. The move is so valuable and good that you don't even need recovery or Leftovers to use it on the set. Multi-Attack along with Ghost Memory is most often mandatory for the set. With it, you have an offensive win condition under your belt from all of the boosting and your set is almost completely Imposter-proof. It is also required so that you can effectively hit opposing Ghost types with your Normalize ability, especially Shedinja, without being forced to switch out and ditch all of your momentum. This does, however, mean you cannot touch Normal types, but that shouldn't typically be an issue.

The EVs are pretty obvious; max out on Speed to ensure that you'll start off the Normalize lock first. 248 HP EVs is used instead of 252 EVs so that the Substitutes you make are not divisible by 4, meaning you can make 4 Substitutes per sitting instead of 3 assuming you're at full health. Ghost Memory is required to turn Multi-Attack into a STAB Ghost move even under Normalize.


Other Options

While the set is mostly set in stone, there are some alternative options for the moves listed, but are still mostly niche. Shift Gear can be used over Shell Smash as a more conservative option that doesn't lower your defenses, but at the cost of less PP and gives less power per use. Spectral Thief is also a useful tool to capitalize against opponents that think they can boost up against you and/or try to wall you out with Substitute or a Normal type. Knock Off or Fishious Rend are also options to run over Substitute for utility or immediate raw power,and also allow you to hit Normal types that want to stop your sweep. Boomburst is always a viable choice for a special attacking coverage option with the added bonus of bypassing Substitutes, but is generally unnecessary given the tools it already has. Octolock is also an interesting tech choice to gain free setup opportunities on a Normalized opponent, but it's hard to make room for.

You aren't necessarily forced to run Ghost Memory on this set. In fact, you can mix and match Memory types with Multi-Attack, such as FIghting, Water, Dark, Dragon, or more, to better suit what you're looking for; it's just mostly recommended to run Ghost Memory for its better overall effectiveness than most of the other type coverage options. You could run Leftovers and replace Multi-Attack with another offensive tool if you really want the healing for your Substitutes, but being unable to hit opposing Dragapults or Shedinja is much less acceptable than being unable to hit Normal-types.


Counters

As seemingly-impossible to overcome as this set looks on paper, it has several forms of counterplay. The set absolutely HATES Magic Bounce and Comatose more than anything. The fact that they prevent Normalize from working means they can easily attack you while you need to kill them first or boost up before doing anything significant. Entry hazards and Rocky Helmet forces damage on Dragapult even while behind its Substitute and hinders future Substitute plays, meaning you get more room to pressure it until it can't take anymore. It's possible to indirectly outstall the set with good pivoting if you built your team well enough. Special mention should go to Type: Null and Tyranitar, who wall Multi-Attack and can shrug off its coverage options, but can still be prone to Normalize.

Dragapult becomes much easier to deal with once its Substitute is down. Priority attacks, such as Extreme Speed and Fake Out from Pixilate and Glaciate users, turn Dragapult into a free kill. If Dragapult couldn't boost fast enough, Zacian or Choice Scarf users can capitalize off an open target and force a bad play. Opposing Memory holders with Multi-Attack can bypass Normalize's effects and hit Dragapult where it hurts. Prankster makes Dragapult's life miserable as it doesn't care about Dragapult's blistering Speed and can become debilitated by a random priority status move. Even with a Substitute up, they can reset if not shut off the set in one go with moves like Perish Song, Haze, or Encore. Also remember that non-attacking moves can hit you just fine, even when put under Normalize, so be sure to keep a Substitute up.

In reality, the best way to take out Dragapult is to take it by surprise and before it can get the chance to set up. Much like how difficult it is to beat with just any ordinary set, this isn't a set that you can just blindly throw out and expect to easily win most games with.
 
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Nice write up. Should mention how fur coat zamazenta out stalls this thing and soft counters it when combined with prankster haze/encore
 
well we should also bear in mind that crowned formes are getting removed, making dragapult the second fastest in the entire game other than the somewhat irrelevant ninjask. zacian-crowned being faster than dragapult was a big con

also the most common dragapults dont run sub. they run fishous rend or bolt beak so when they get magic bounced they dont get walled by something like ttar.
little ppl run comatose as they dont even know it blocks entrainment. with dragapult only needing 1 single entrainment turn to set up become almost impossible to defeat, by the time you switched to your comatose/ prankster mon it's already at least at +2, which require specific bulky checks to avoid getting 2HKOed on the switch (you cant slow pivot unless u got parting shot, or u gotta sack a mon).

also i rarely see anyone running FakeSpeed, im so confused as zacian and kyub exists

when dragapult forces a switch it goes 842 speed, where the fastest scarf, ninjask, only reaches 690 so scarf revenge kill is nearly impossible

also fur coat zamazenta cant outstall as they just remove your fur coat and boost up until you get 2HKOed

while you can technically stall them out with toxic or w-o-w haze or perish song, you hv to sack quite a bit or protect until you panic so hard

as this mon makes good teams run specific counters just for stopping it, (just like i used volt absorb to specifically stop zekrom abuse) imo, this (and zekrom yeah (which is easier to stop as they all run band)) should rly be suspected or at least be discussed.

i only managed to stop a +6 dragapult with predictions between fur coat and shed and opponent making so many mistakes

even if you managed to stop dragapult from sweeping, it will surely be punching a big hole in your team if you arent using the specific counters. I really hope that more people can read these posts and make fakespeed or comatose more popular or dragapult will disrupt the ladder
 
Crowned form mons aren't going to be removed; they'll just have to hold their signature item similar to Groudon running Red Orb to use its primal form last gen. So that means that Zac-C will still be able to naturally outspeed Dragapult before boosting.

I do believe that Dragapult is a powerful threat this gen because of the self-improofness, and the fact that it can bluff Normalize to run other sets and moves. That means it's really easy for it to actually get a Shell Smash off. However the typing isn't nearly as good as Mega Gengar's as it has a whole bunch of weaknesses that Mega Gengar doesn't, especially to Fakespeed (both Pixilate and Refrigerate will do severe damage). I've seen a few alternative sets running around, such as Simple Smash + 3 attacks, and I'm not quite sure which one is best yet. All of them lose to Fur Coat mons, especially Spectral Thief ones. Keep an eye on Dragapult though; it does have some good potential!

On the entrainment set, I also think that Substitute is objectively a worse move to run, and that one of Fishious Rend or Close Combat are both much better. The reason is that you are walled by normal types. The summary post shrugs this off, but Unaware Normals will probably become more common, and being able to hit them hard will put a lot more pressure on them. It also means that you can beat Imposter Munchlax easily because you don't have a Substitute up, which means they will transform into Dragapult and get killed by Multi Attack. You are of course more vulnerable to things like status moves, Leech Seed, and Strength Sap this way, but those can be more easily shrugged off than a gigantic gap in your coverage which can render Dragapult virtually useless.

Here's another set I've been having great success with on the ladder. It should get even better when the mechanic changes are implemented:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Octolock
- Stealth Rock

This set is a great anti-bulkymon set, able to switch into most bulky mons and bounce back their status moves. It can also catch switches with Octolock, which will force the ones without pivot moves to eat progressively stronger scalds that will run them out of recover PP. By revealing that it has Stealth Rock, Toxapex can lure in Magic Bounce mons so that they can be worn down by Octolock + Scald and burns. Octolock also means that Toxapex is mostly self-improof, though it of course would rather not be burnt and will have to use 4 or 5 recover PP healing itself up. After bouncers are dealt with, Toxapex can reliably get Stealth Rock up over and over.

Toxapex can work as an Improof to something like Zamazenta-C, walling Fire and Fighting types it doesn't want to take on while it dissuades hazards that Zam-C wouldn't want to deal with. It can also improof offensive Darm-GZ sets that forgo Ground coverage, and use Fighting coverage to hit Steel-types instead. Knock Off support can help Toxapex wear down enemies faster with burn damage.
 
Crowned form mons aren't going to be removed; they'll just have to hold their signature item similar to Groudon running Red Orb to use its primal form last gen. So that means that Zac-C will still be able to naturally outspeed Dragapult before boosting.

I do believe that Dragapult is a powerful threat this gen because of the self-improofness, and the fact that it can bluff Normalize to run other sets and moves. That means it's really easy for it to actually get a Shell Smash off. However the typing isn't nearly as good as Mega Gengar's as it has a whole bunch of weaknesses that Mega Gengar doesn't, especially to Fakespeed (both Pixilate and Refrigerate will do severe damage). I've seen a few alternative sets running around, such as Simple Smash + 3 attacks, and I'm not quite sure which one is best yet. All of them lose to Fur Coat mons, especially Spectral Thief ones. Keep an eye on Dragapult though; it does have some good potential!

On the entrainment set, I also think that Substitute is objectively a worse move to run, and that one of Fishious Rend or Close Combat are both much better. The reason is that you are walled by normal types. The summary post shrugs this off, but Unaware Normals will probably become more common, and being able to hit them hard will put a lot more pressure on them. It also means that you can beat Imposter Munchlax easily because you don't have a Substitute up, which means they will transform into Dragapult and get killed by Multi Attack. You are of course more vulnerable to things like status moves, Leech Seed, and Strength Sap this way, but those can be more easily shrugged off than a gigantic gap in your coverage which can render Dragapult virtually useless.

Here's another set I've been having great success with on the ladder. It should get even better when the mechanic changes are implemented:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Octolock
- Stealth Rock

This set is a great anti-bulkymon set, able to switch into most bulky mons and bounce back their status moves. It can also catch switches with Octolock, which will force the ones without pivot moves to eat progressively stronger scalds that will run them out of recover PP. By revealing that it has Stealth Rock, Toxapex can lure in Magic Bounce mons so that they can be worn down by Octolock + Scald and burns. Octolock also means that Toxapex is mostly self-improof, though it of course would rather not be burnt and will have to use 4 or 5 recover PP healing itself up. After bouncers are dealt with, Toxapex can reliably get Stealth Rock up over and over.

Toxapex can work as an Improof to something like Zamazenta-C, walling Fire and Fighting types it doesn't want to take on while it dissuades hazards that Zam-C wouldn't want to deal with. It can also improof offensive Darm-GZ sets that forgo Ground coverage, and use Fighting coverage to hit Steel-types instead. Knock Off support can help Toxapex wear down enemies faster with burn damage.
I think a huge issue is Beak Bolt. I use Beak Bolt for Darm-Z-G bc it pairs well with Ice STAB, and hits threats like Dusclops, Toxipex, etc.
Beak Bolt also pairs with the crowned Dogs for additional coverage as waters wall Steel and Flying walls Fighting.

Darm-Z-G’s biggest wall will actually be Darm-Z bc it doesn’t have the electric weakness.

Regardless, Toxapex is a legit wall and with your set I feel it carves out a specific niche, plus it can absorb TSpikes that may have been laid out before it came in. Regardless, I think Octolock is an interesting and useful move more walls should consider.

Thanks.
 
I am 100% that set!

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Soak
- Pain Split
- Octolock

Imposterproof, traps other Ghosts after Soak, removes foe's STAB, and lets you multi-task as you trap, heal while dealing damage with Pain Split, and Body Press after those 2 turns when they are at -2 Defense.

If Imposter uses Soak, you can Pain Split, and then switch to an Improof (like mine is Darm-Z with Blue Flare). Pain Split works even better against Dynamax. Also functions as way around Entrainment Dragapult. You Soak as they Entrain. Suddenly Body Press gets 20% more power, which helps compensate for losing Fur Coat. They lose STAB on Multi-Attack, so that helps, and you still have Eviolite for Body Press' damage, and removes the ability for it to switch out of its own Jaw Lock. Obstolock the 2nd turn in for trapping, and suddenly you can check your "counters".
 
also the most common dragapults dont run sub. they run fishous rend or bolt beak so when they get magic bounced they dont get walled by something like ttar.
Fishious Rend/Bolt Beak doesn't help with either of these. TTar couldn't care less about them because of Normalize, and unless you happen to be up against a Normal type (which you aren't doing much damage to either way), you might as well either boost under a Sub, try for Multi-Attack, or just switch out against Magic Bounce.

As for the Normal types in general, I can only think of two or three Normal types you would probably see in BH as opposed to several numerous sets designed to beat Dragapult that you would absolutely see. Besides, you're unlikely to beat most Normal types 1v1 anyway as they're designed to pose problems for Dragapult; you might as well either stall them out or keep yourself safe from surprise attacks that every team will run just to take you down.

I did mention this in the Other Options portion, but I didn't slash it in because it doesn't solve any notable problems. You COULD run Fishious Rend or the like to cover Normal types instead of Substitute, but you'll rarely beat down Normal types (mainly Type: Null) 1v1 with it anyway without a substantial amount of boosting, would rather force a stalemate with Normalize, or just switch out and try again later if neither of those are applicable. At that point, why stay in?

It's worth using Substitute over coverage because Normal types are surprisingly rare in Gen 8 BH, and sets that can circumvent the set without Substitute are much more common and should be considered more than the latter.

Speaking of which:

I am 100% that set!

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Soak
- Pain Split
- Octolock

Imposterproof, traps other Ghosts after Soak, removes foe's STAB, and lets you multi-task as you trap, heal while dealing damage with Pain Split, and Body Press after those 2 turns when they are at -2 Defense.

If Imposter uses Soak, you can Pain Split, and then switch to an Improof (like mine is Darm-Z with Blue Flare). Pain Split works even better against Dynamax. Also functions as way around Entrainment Dragapult. You Soak as they Entrain. Suddenly Body Press gets 20% more power, which helps compensate for losing Fur Coat. They lose STAB on Multi-Attack, so that helps, and you still have Eviolite for Body Press' damage, and removes the ability for it to switch out of its own Jaw Lock. Obstolock the 2nd turn in for trapping, and suddenly you can check your "counters".
See this? Sets like this is why you run Substitute on Dragapult. Otherwise effective out-of-nowhere sets like this flip the entire strategy over its head and you lose your Dragapult because you didn't prepare for it. Losing a portion of your health is a fair cost to being immune to numerous surprise cheese strategies that would make the set useless otherwise and come up more often than Normal type treats.
 
I've been having some success with an alternative dragapult set:

Ability: Tough Claws
- Shell Smash
- Multi Attack
- Close Combat
- Recover / Blue Flare


Bluff Normalize to get a switch, set up and start clicking. CC catches Mega Tar for an easy kill as well as stuff like Zam-C (Non-FC or Unaware takes about 80), Zac-C dies to 2+2 Multiattack, and you can run Recover to keep your health up. Blue Flare lets you smack prankster Steels and physical walls really hard, 2hkoing Melmetal. Of course, this is mostly a lure for anti-normalize answers rn. Try it out though, the power boost is definitely nice!
 
Can you all stop posting and suggesting terrible sets? Most of these look like sets people from ladder hell use and I don't know why people are still mentioning Darm-Z like its relevant when its leaving soon and wasn't very good in the first place.
Normal Lock @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Entrainment
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Multi-Attack
Yeah mono-attack is just not good. Substitute is completely outclassed by Fishous Rend which actually gives you coverage against resists and immunities because guess what you don't have 170 offenses like MGar so stuff like prank darks just outstall you even if they can't touch you.
Fishious Rend/Bolt Beak doesn't help with either of these. TTar couldn't care less about them because of Normalize, and unless you happen to be up against a Normal type (which you aren't doing much damage to either way), you might as well either boost under a Sub, try for Multi-Attack, or just switch out against Magic Bounce.
They can't touch you unless they have Magic Bounce where you hit them with SE Fishous or Comatose which is an unset.
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Soak
- Pain Split
- Octolock
What the heck is this. A wall without reliable recovery. A mon with mono-attack non-STAB non-utility. A mon that offers hardly any utility since no hazards no defog doesn't check anything relevant. A mon that is easily taken advantage of by any pivot mon. Congrats. This set is so bad.

Regarding the QBs would look forward to ISword, DIB, and maybe shed getting qbed, the 170 BP moves and shed could use a suspect.
:sm/shedinja:
Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Teleport
- Pain Split
- Stealth Rock
- Spirit Shackle / Baneful Bunker

The best Shed set in the meta IMO. Immunity to hazards lets you play much more aggressively. Spirit Shackle is useful for chipping ghosts and finishing off mons after a couple rounds of pain split. Main problem are the rock and ice dynamax moves but you can cover that with a Prim Sea mon and stall out dynamax using your own Max Guard. This mon is actually broken and really difficult to account for unless you run SunGeist Geyser or Knock Off/Trick on every offensive mon.
Actually Pain Split is incredibly bugged rn so run something else on it for now.

:sm/kyurem-white::sm/mewtwo::sm/eternatus:
Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch

Mewtwo / Eternatus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Bolt Strike / Filler (Blue Flare, Focus Blast, Seed Flare, Shadow Ball, Moonblast, Sludge Wave, Bug Buzz, Spikes, Agility?)

These two are really solid offensive mons for Shed teams as special isn't super accounted for in the meta rn. Kyu-W needs Naive to outrun base 90s and ESpeed helps against Dragapult and weakened Zacian-C until that leaves the meta. I haven't tried Mewtwo yet but it looks like its a really solid offensive threat too. Of course if your opponent has an Ice Scales mon then most of the time these mons don't do anything so...
 
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I thought it had been discussed on here already but I guess not. Imposter is still relevant in this meta. Imposter will be seen in any meta where it can have more than base 48 HP. Scarf Imposter is still handy for taking on offense.

Wobbuffet has by far the highest base HP available so it is ideal for Scarf Imposter or even niche items like Shed Shell, Leftovers, or a memory for Multi-Attack.

Munchlax has the highest available base HP that can hold Eviolite, but it doesn't really compare to Chansey's utility from last generation.

Light Ball Pikachu imposter is a solid improof breaker still and can be threatening with paralysis support.

Other imposter options include Wailord, Snorlax, and Drifblim. These are mainly for flavor, since Wobbuffet is ugly. But Snorlax could actually have some use if it doesn't transform and can phase out Substitute Dragapult. Drifblim is immune to spikes, if you're into that, but being weak to rocks is lame.
 
Yeah mono-attack is just not good. Substitute is completely outclassed by Fishous Rend which actually gives you coverage against resists and immunities because guess what you don't have 170 offenses like MGar so stuff like prank darks just outstall you even if they can't touch you.
...you mean the whopping TWO viable Dark-type Prankster abusers in BH being Tyranitar and Umbreon? (Yeah others can run it but they're mostly unsets) The only one of those you're hitting for relevant damage with that is Umbreon, and you can't even 2HKO it without a boost and/or Stealth Rock. Outside of that, only Type: Null is the primary Normal type target to use Fishious Rend against, and good luck killing that with anything less than a +4 boost under your belt.

At that point, if that's all you're realistically hitting with Fishious Rend, you might as well be safer against a wider margin of counterplay with Substitute.


**EDIT** Whoops forgot that Entrainment --> Magic Bounce turns Normalize into Magic Bounce.


I've been having some success with an alternative dragapult set:

Ability: Tough Claws
- Shell Smash
- Multi Attack
- Close Combat
- Recover / Blue Flare


Bluff Normalize to get a switch, set up and start clicking. CC catches Mega Tar for an easy kill as well as stuff like Zam-C (Non-FC or Unaware takes about 80), Zac-C dies to 2+2 Multiattack, and you can run Recover to keep your health up. Blue Flare lets you smack prankster Steels and physical walls really hard, 2hkoing Melmetal. Of course, this is mostly a lure for anti-normalize answers rn. Try it out though, the power boost is definitely nice!
Well yeah, it's not like the set I gave was all Dragapult could do. It can set up hazards effectively, try to be a sweeper, stallbreak, spread status... it's got other uses aside from the one I gave, so go nuts.
 
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I am 100% that set!

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Soak
- Pain Split
- Octolock

Imposterproof, traps other Ghosts after Soak, removes foe's STAB, and lets you multi-task as you trap, heal while dealing damage with Pain Split, and Body Press after those 2 turns when they are at -2 Defense.

If Imposter uses Soak, you can Pain Split, and then switch to an Improof (like mine is Darm-Z with Blue Flare). Pain Split works even better against Dynamax. Also functions as way around Entrainment Dragapult. You Soak as they Entrain. Suddenly Body Press gets 20% more power, which helps compensate for losing Fur Coat. They lose STAB on Multi-Attack, so that helps, and you still have Eviolite for Body Press' damage, and removes the ability for it to switch out of its own Jaw Lock. Obstolock the 2nd turn in for trapping, and suddenly you can check your "counters".
Fur Coat and Eviolite do not boost Body Press. It's the same way as when you're using Foul Play, the opponent having Huge Power (which ostensibly raises their attack stat even higher) doesn't result in extra damage, but if you have that ability, it does. Stat stages are still drawn from defense, but if you want to get a boost from the ability or item slots, they need to boost attack even when the move you're using is Body Press.
 

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