BH Balanced Hackmons

I'm kinda bouncing around on things and trying to find a playstyle I wanna pursue this generation. Haven't really sunk my teeth into it well yet since... holidays + retail. But some interesting things I've tooled around with are below. This is also early starting point investigations, so bear in mind this stuff is hardly optimized. I'm also not expecting much, if any, of it to become mainline options, but who knows? Regardless, interesting stuff, but try them out with a few grains of salt.


Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

Basically a poor man's Mega-Manectric. Alternatively, a rich man's Gen V Jolteon. While is is strictly weaker than the niche-mega from last Gen, it also super appreciates the fact that the overall offensive metagame is a lot slower and Zygarde, Giratina, and Primal-Groudon have all been benched which, in turn, gives it a lot fewer common walls. Also, unlike Mega-Mane, it can get its own Terrain Support with Dynamax shenannigans. It competes with Zekrom for the role, who hits harder and is bulker, but Jolteon is faster and can get the jump on some quicker opponents, especially ones with (Special) Attack natures. I ran this with terrain support although the the rest of the team is otherwise bad, so I won't discuss it. Not expecting this to be a mainline set either way unless Zekrom gets booted for some reason and probably may appreciate different moves or abilities. No Guard Zappy might be a lot better this time around for fast, hard-hitting paralysis. The coverage on the set is still pretty wimpy though, which was Mega-Mane's big problem, and it may want Water or Ground moves this gen instead of Ice.


Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Strength Sap
- Double Iron Bash

This is straight up my hazard-setting Solgaleo from Gen VII with a slight move update from Gear Grind to Double Iron Bash. Its power is actually pretty decent this go around with the much lower bulk and it is also much higher in the speed tiers too, which is great for moldy Taunt. Main downside to this particular version is Toxapex and Eternus steal Toxic Spikes, so T.Spikes might not be the best option (and is fairly team specific anyway).


Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Recover
- Spiky Shield
- Foul Play
- Will-o-Wisp / Toxic

With Yveltal, Ttar, and Mega-Gyarados all gone, Umbreon steps up as the bulkiest Dark-type in the meta once more rather than merely sharing the title. It lacks all of their offensive prowress, unfortunately, it's also incredibly happy that Xerneas, Mega-Diancie, Margerna, and MMX have all gotten the boot. The crowned doggos and Body Press all getting mechanics nerfed is super sweet icing on the cake. Hence, many of its arch-nemesis are cleared out and it actually has potential to make a splash. Unaware Umbreon is pretty darn bulky, gets STAB Foul Play to make physical attackers really cry. and a great answer to set-up sweepers although is a little susceptible to wall-breakers on this set. I've not gotten around to them, but Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and potentially AV Regen might all be viable or better options before we even try out some new abilities. Definitely needs some more investigation, but this is a starting place.


Mandibuzz @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Circle Throw
- Knock Off
- Baneful Bunker
- Spectral Thief

A straight port of a Gen VII Yveltal set, although it's not pulled quite as much weight. I think the set is perfectly fine and is still a big pain in the rear, but it might need a different user especially with Bolt Beak running around. Seriously, Bolt Beak and Fishous Rend are both really, really stupid. They're almost like V-Create except without the drawbacks.




And these are mons that kinda show promise but haven't quite worked for me yet. I'm not showing full sets to save my self from being shamed by the badness I created with them but I think the mons themselves might be able to find a niche somewhere.


Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Recover

Although its lost bulk this gen, Prankster Venusaur seems like it might have some potential. Although, outside of tricking, the set I've run so far has been pretty super crap so far, so I'm not including it to save myself the shame. Although it still takes irritating amounts of damage from Bolt Rend stupidity if you don't use a priority move. Might also function with other abilities too. Really funny to send against Normalize Dragapult!


Arcanine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-Create or Pyro Ball?
- U-turn

Arcanine shows some promise as a somewhat bulky Fire-type without Reshiram's Dragon-weakness or Darm-Z's Dark and Ghost weaknesses while having decentish power. Fishous Rend will probably force it to be Water Absorb or Fur Coat though I'm betting. I don't think there's quite a need for a defensive pure-Fire-type at the moment with all the Water and Ground moves flying around, but I think sooner or later it might have a shot at a niche option somewhere.


Musharna
Ability: Uhhhh
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Some Nature
- Moves

Bottom of the usable barrel I've messed with so far. Been trying it out as a Cresselia replacement by running some of its old sets but so far the bulk has been pretty disappointing. I have very low hopes for this mon and I feel like I'm overlooking a better option, but including it here just because it might be able to do something. In the mean time, feel free to point at it, laugh at it, and sell its children to Team Plasma.


I've not tried it yet, but Sylveon's on my radar of Pokemon worth investigating. It was quite usable in BH UU historically as either a Regenvest or Pixilate user so I imagine it must have some viability this go 'round.
 
Sure I guess, but I was exclusively mentioning Ghost-types in my post.

Also, as mentioned in my last post, Body Press is no longer as broken as we thought it was. It is no longer boosted by Fur Coat or Eviolite, making it significantly less threatening. This pretty much invalidates having Body Press on mons that don't gain STAB, especially Ghost-types since they are prone to Spectral Thief. Stat boosts like Dauntless Shield and Cotton Guard still boost damage, but the loss of power that Fur Coat and Eviolite gave makes this move much easier to play around. That being said, there is still potential for sets to try Body Press + Cotton Guard with alternative abilities. These sets could make for an interesting setup sweeper, but still are prone to Haze, Spectral Thief, Topsy-Turvy, and other similar anti-setup strategies.
I was focused on the heading.

Darmanitan-Zen Mode Galar and Unova are now free! #FreeTheZ!

My new favorite set:

Zekrom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bolt Beak
- Fishous Rend
- Copycat

Bluff Unburden, hit on their switch to a Prankster Hazer, then double the damage and hit first with Copycat. Fishous is for Grounds, Bolt Beak is for STAB, and Belly Drum is because you are a “Turn 1 and done” set up kinda sweeper.

If you thought Zekrom was in need of a way to always go first, at maximum potential, you got it. If you want an Electric Terrain Boost, Dynamax can work when timed appropriately.


Darmanitan-Zen @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Lava Plume
- Parting Shot
- Defog / Stealth Rocks

I have been using it to counter Mewtwo, Refrigerate Kyurem-W (and Imposterproof the set I listed in my prior Kyurem-W post), as well as handle Specs Reshiram, and Eternatus. It takes a good hit, and softens the blows via Parting Shot. I see many Darm-Z in teams, and I am quite impressed that it was a temp banned Pokemon that people quickly used right after it was unbanned (without announcement). So proud!

I have been seeing a lot of Sniper Draco Meteor sets in Kyurem-W and Reshiram, which can 2HKO even Calm Ice Scales, but then again, only a few Steels can switch into those regardless. My point being, RegenVest isn’t cutting it like it used to, as Parting Shot, TopsyTurvey and Haze wont save you. I see Ice Scales and Fur Coat becoming mainstays and middle grounds like RegenVest being replaced as we just don’t have enough bulky Pokemon to use it with.
 
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I was focused on the heading.

Darmanitan-Zen Mode Galar and Unova are now free! #FreeTheZ!

My new favorite set:

Zekrom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bolt Beak
- Fishous Rend
- Copycat

Bluff Unburden, hit on their switch to a Prankster Hazer, then double the damage and hit first with Copycat. Fishous is for Grounds, Bolt Beak is for STAB, and Belly Drum is because you are a “Turn 1 and done” set up kinda sweeper.

If you thought Zekrom was in need of a way to always go first, at maximum potential, you got it. If you want an Electric Terrain Boost, Dynamax can work when timed appropriately.


Darmanitan-Zen @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Lava Plume
- Parting Shot
- Defog / Stealth Rocks

I have been using it to counter Mewtwo, Refrigerate Kyurem-W (and Imposterproof the set I listed in my prior Kyurem-W post), as well as handle Specs Reshiram, and Eternatus. It takes a good hit, and softens the blows via Parting Shot. I see many Darm-Z in teams, and I am quite impressed that it was a temp banned Pokemon that people quickly used right after it was unbanned (without announcement). So proud!

I have been seeing a lot of Sniper Draco Meteor sets in Kyurem-W and Reshiram, which can 2HKO even Calm Ice Scales, but then again, only a few Steels can switch into those regardless. My point being, RegenVest isn’t cutting it like it used to, as Parting Shot, TopsyTurvey and Haze wont save you. I see Ice Scales and Fur Coat becoming mainstays and middle grounds like RegenVest being replaced as we just don’t have enough bulky Pokemon to use it with.

Hm doesn't that Zekrom set get beaten by other Zekroms carrying Dragon Darts?

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Zekrom Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 280-336 (69.3 - 83.1%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO at 75% health

Also both kyurems can outspeed, survive a bolt beak, and destroy this thing. Good for defensive teams though, like you said, with prankster haze/topsy.

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 400-471 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO


Also how would a sniper set work? I'd love to take a look at something 2HKOing through ice scales and steel resists.
 
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Hm doesn't that Zekrom set get beaten by other Zekroms carrying Dragon Darts?

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Zekrom Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 280-336 (69.3 - 83.1%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO at 75% health

Also both kyurems can outspeed, survive a bolt beak, and destroy this thing. Good for defensive teams though, like you said, with prankster haze/topsy.

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 400-471 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO


Also how would a sniper set work? I'd love to take a look at something 2HKOing through ice scales and steel resists.
Yep, I just figured I wouldn’t sent it in on Kyurem-B/W anyways since you cannot beat Extreme Speed without Dazzling, and they might pack Boomburst (W) or EQ (B) or another move that can threaten Zekrom anyways.

Fishous Rend can be replaced by Dragon Darts, but at that point it does less nuetrally.

For Sniper, they have used Scope Lens, Draco Meteor, Focus Energy, Ice Beam/Blue Flare, Earth Power coverage. This allows them to not get Hazed and bypass the -2 SpA from Draco. It is a wall breaker set since they lack the speed for sweeping. It was a tough thing to counter, and sometimes they pack Moongeist/Photon for Shedinja. But I think the battle I faced Kyurem-W showed Photon, I assumed for Dynamax psychic terrain
 
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Yep, I just figured I wouldn’t sent it in on Kyurem-B/W anyways since you cannot beat Extreme Speed without Dazzling, and they might pack Boomburst (W) or EQ (B) or another move that can threaten Zekrom anyways.

Fishous Rend can be replaced by Dragon Darts, but at that point it does less nuetrally.

For Sniper, they have used Scope Lens, Draco Meteor, Focus Energy, Ice Beam/Blue Flare, Earth Power coverage. This allows them to not get Hazed and bypass the -2 SpA from Draco. It is a wall breaker set since they lack the speed for sweeping. It was a tough thing to counter, and sometimes they pack Moongeist/Photon for Shedinja. But I think the battle I faced Kyurem-W showed Photon, I assumed for Dynamax psychic terrain

My bad my calcs were at +4 not +6 but yeah your points still stand. I'm pretty sure you can live a extreme speed from kyurem-w and OHKO in return with bolt beak. Against Kyurem-b you're hosed.

How would you improof your prankster Zekrom and sniper Kyurem sets?

I can see shed for non-photon geyser variants of kyurem, but what else could counter?
 
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My bad my calcs were at +4 not +6 but yeah your points still stand. I'm pretty sure you can live a extreme speed from kyurem-w and OHKO in return with bolt beak. Against Kyurem-b you're hosed.

How would you improof your prankster Zekrom and sniper Kyurem sets?

I can see shed for non-photon geyser variants of kyurem, but what else could counter?
Well, the other issue becomes if they outspeed you from Extreme Speed then you actually KO them with Copycatted Extreme Speed, since it is a Normal-type neutral move and becomes the most recent move used.

Kyurem-Black can KO Zekrom due to Fake-Out and. high Atk, but Kyurem-White was

252 Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-White Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And if it is Specs:

252 Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-White Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 206-246 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Assuming a -Def Mild or Hasty Nature, Zekrom can KO with minor chip damage:

+6 252+ Atk Zekrom Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Kyurem-White: 400-471 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

While Kyurem-Black KOs especially since Zekrom is at 75% after Sitrus and Belly Drum:

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 354-416 (87.6 - 102.9%) -- OHKOs Zekrom at 75%

Overall, if you can survive Ky-White Specs Extreme Speed you can KO back after SR, but at that point they could outpredict in a rematch and aim for Boomburst while you Copycat your last move in Bolt Beak.

Anyways, for Improofing: Shedinja works for all, while Unaware/Fur Coat Ferrothorn works for Zekrom, and I don’t use Sniper on them but if I did then Ice Scales Water Starter from Gen 7, (you can also impact your own Kyurem-W such as using Blue Flare so it is resisted by Primarina, instead of Earth Power). Remember, the opposing Imposter lacks Scope Lens, so it will not have a 100% chance to Critical Hit. If they are Scarfed, then it’s easier to handle once you know what they are locked into. But don’t forget Dynamax relieves them of Scarf, so they can still switch moves if they want to... and if you have Blue Flare then they can summon Sun under Dynamax.

So Ice Scales Primarina Vs Blue Flare, Draco, Ice Beam, Focus Energy Otherwise Heavy Duty Boots Shedinja to survive Stealth Rocks - but replace Blue Flare with Earth Power so they can not Burn Shedinja, and so that they cannot summon Sun under Dynamax.

Blue Flare is to KO Steels and use Primarina; while Earth Power is for consistency Vs Flash Fire and to Improof with Shedinja.

Otherwise Critical Hit chance prevention Abilities, Lol.

Edit: Meant to add, they can Dynamax and use Ice Beam to summon Hail to kill Shedinja, so be careful. I suggest Blue Flare and Primarina for this reason alone. Plus Blue Flare threatens more like the Box Covers for a solid 1HKO.

Calcs:

FE826835-7B67-4C3F-9440-951702184F3A.png
I noticed that Ice Scales does not halve damage in the calc:
2941304F-FFF2-4C18-9065-E32E3C6969BD.png

As the damage is the same regardless of ability. (This is is for both critical and non critical hits).

I also noticed that Light Screen shows as working in the calc if it is a non-critical hit:
AF315333-DBB2-48D0-B434-5B58B459A0A8.png

I assume these are errors.

So you would have Focus Energy where Earth Power would be, I am just showing how even a neutral unSTABBED 90 base power Earth Power be too much, if it didn’t have Ice Scales - so Blue Flare is mandatory so you can KO Steels (Aegislash, Zacian-Crowned, Corviknight, etc. are too neutral to Fighting to suggest Aura Sphere, so although it wouldn’t be as overwhelming as Earth Power bc it’s resisted, it’s too weak for your Kyurem-W to use).
 
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GL Volkner

burst into flames
is a Tiering Contributor
Ground types and Ghost types got a review, so let's give Electric types one too!

What's Changed:
They got an accurate physical attack that's effectively 170 BP almost whenever it wants to be and still respectable power when it isn't, all while still being able to freely pick between an ability and an item.

Verdict:
Electrics are broken. Thank you and good night.
 
Ground types and Ghost types got a review, so let's give Electric types one too!

What's Changed:
They got an accurate physical attack that's effectively 170 BP almost whenever it wants to be and still respectable power when it isn't, all while still being able to freely pick between an ability and an item.

Verdict:
Electrics are broken. Thank you and good night.
And Water-types. The only issues are Priority of any kind removes their power boost completely if you lack a priority ability, so in a way you may have to consider abilities that help, like Prankster.

Lately, I have been debating whether it’s better or worse than Water-Type Fishous Rend because it doesn’t have a type-immunity, while Water immune abilities are rarely used, plus it can be partnered with Flying STAB in Gyarados, so during Dynamax it can get a +Speed boost while attacking, and doesn’t need to setup, as it can also trigger Rain with a Fishous Rend during Dynamax. It just goes more in sync with its dual STAB, plus it’s STAB Flying compliments it, so it can handle would-be Grass-type switch-ins like Silvally.

Overall, I use Zekrom for now, but I keep thinking Fishous Rend Gyarados can Dynamax to take advantage of both of its STABs, gaining +Speed and not fear getting blocked by Dazzling, or Ground-types...

Using both together means Dragons and Grass block them each, so it can be somewhat difficult to fit them both in the same moveset.
 
great posts lads

Here's some sets I've tried:

1576900536193.png

Primarina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Recover
- Filler (pivoting, Knock Off, hazards, shield, Defog, Spectral Thief, Gastro Acid, )

I've really been liking Primarina lately. Solid Sp. Def + good resists let this set take on most Reshiram and Kyu-W sets, and some other miscellaneous stuff like Bolt Beak-less Kyurem-B, PH Zamazenta, and Eternatus without poison coverage. It's also surprisingly hard to switch into repeatedly as it has good Sp. Atk, not much resists its STABs and it can spread around burns with Scald. Unfortunately its bulk overall is not that great: it gets 2HKOd by Specs Kyu-W Boomburst, cops a ton from Volt Switch, and can't take on physical attackers at all. It kinda needs to run Recover to stay healthy enough to do what it needs to, making it way less Imposter-proof. Solid set overall.

Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Filler

Trades some of the longevity and general utility of the previous set to be one of the best Zekrom counters in the tier. Volt Absorb is also really cool to slurp up Volt Switches, which is great against choiced Kyu-W sets. This also takes on Kyu-B a lot better than the PH set as you can't get murked by Bolt Beak. The team I'm using this on takes advantage of its ability to improof both Kyu-W and Zekrom in one slot.
1576900753740.png

Zamazenta @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- U-turn

(other options: Extreme Speed, Bolt Beak, Spectral Thief, Knock Off, Photon Geyser)

A lot of teams on ladder aren't packing very good fighting resists right now, so Zamazenta is really well-positioned as a wallbreaker. The speed and bulk on this make it really easy to get it in and force stuff out, and give it a lot of utility against offense. Intrepid Sword can be hard to improof without sacrificing coverage, but the loss in power with Tough Claws is pretty noticeable, especially for Earthquake against Eternatus and Aegislash. Big shame that this can't Dynamax, because getting to use Max Knuckle would be dope.

1576900558746.png

Golisopod @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp / Nuzzle / Spore
- U-turn
- Obstruct / Spiky Shield
- Spikes / Filler

Golisopod @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce / Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Slack Off
- Filler
- Filler

Golisopod is deceptively good. With PH or Magic Bounce it gets momentum so easily vs bulky teams, its U-turns are threatening, and it can wall a range of physical attackers. The Volt Absorb set takes on pretty much every Zekrom, Zeraora, Kyu-B, and Barraskewda set and stops Kyu-W from coming in and clicking Volt Switch on it for free. Really sick mon, definitely recommend trying this one out. I think there's a lot of room for experimentation with this guy as well, I could see more offensive PH sets with Shift Gear + Fishious Rend being solid.

1576900619299.png

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Mold Breaker / Tinted Lens / Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Bolt Beak / Earthquake

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- V-create
- Fake Out / Earthquake / Rapid Spin
- Bolt Beak / Earthquake / Rapid Spin

Absolutely cursed mon. This is one of the hardest things to wall in the entire tier because V-create is a very silly move, and its great speed/fridge Espeed gives it utility in a lot of different matchups. Has lots of space to switch up coverage and abilities on the CB set to hit different stuff and enable different improofs, making it tricky to prep for. Being able to use Max Hailstorm to kill Shed without having to use up a moveslot on Sunsteel is so good for this mon as well. Requires quite a bit of team support to keep rocks off, get him in safely and improof him but it's absolutely worth it.

1576900670860.png

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power / Eruption / Trick

This set is ok but it's really hard to justify running over Reshiram. The advantages of Chandelure are that it can switch into Endeavor, resists Ice and Fairy and is a bit better at breaking a handful of specific mons, like Flash Fire steels, ghosts, and Mewtwo. That's all nice but usually doesn't make up for having overall worse stats, not outspeeding Zac-C and being far worse against Eternatus, Zekrom, Kyurems and Reshiram. Defensive Chandelure sets could be interesting, but for this Scarf set I think it would take a very specific team to want this instead of Reshiram.
1576900719407.png

Celebi @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spiky Shield
- Filler (Spectral Thief, Teleport, hazards, Defog, etc)

Celebi @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat / Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Filler
- Filler
- Filler

An ok Zekrom counter that can also take on some Barraskewda, Zamazenta, and Mewtwo sets. Fur Coat is its best set overall I think, because Celebi absolutely cops it from U-turn otherwise. Actually kinda outclassed by Silvally-Grass a lot of the time, Celebi's extra weaknesses really suck and the marginal extra bulk and speed don't usually matter that much. Photon Geyser is a lot better on this than it looks. It allows Celebi to better take advantage of its speed and pick off weakened Zekroms and Reshirams and such, and being able to proactively pressure Eternatus, Zamazenta, and Shedinja is really great. It also makes Celebi a lot more threatening when it Dynamaxes.

1576900764389.png

Escavalier @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Roost
- V-Create
- Sunsteel Strike

Escavalier kinda underperformed for me. On paper it's great: no weaknesses, good offensive presence, strong slow STAB U-turn, checks Darm-G-Z, Kyu-B, and offensive steels. In practice, it's just not quite bulky enough to take on the stuff that you want it to, and I think it's largely outclassed by Melmetal, Ferrothorn, and Solgaleo. This offensive set is a ton of fun and can be quite difficult for some teams to switch into, but it might just be worse than a defensive set with Will-o-Wisp and Defog or whatever. Not a bad mon, but I don't think I'd use it unless I needed it to Imposter-proof something specific.

1576906481892.png

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful / Impish Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Haze
- Slack Off
- Filler

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire / Volt Absorb / Magic Bounce / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful / Impish Nature
- Recover
- Anchor Shot / pivoting
- Filler
- Filler

Corviknight is a solid, flexible defensive Pokemon despite its lackluster bulk; like Celesteela last gen, this mon is completely carried by Steel / Flying being a stupid good defensive typing. It's even better this gen than last as Ground coverage is very popular and Thousand Arrows doesn't exist. This improofs a lot of mons really effectively, and can be tailored to deal with a really wide range of offensive threats. Really cool mon overall, I've found myself running this on a lot of different teams.

1576901610709.png

Goodra @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Volt Switch
- King's Shield
- Lava Plume

Goodra @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles
Ability: Fur Coat / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold/Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Roost
- Earth Power / Blue Flare
- Filler

Unfortunately, Goodra is kinda cheeks. At first glance its great Sp. Def, resistances to Water and Electric and reasonable offensive presence made it look decent, but in practice it just doesn't really do anything. It's special bulk is completely squandered by the fact that every relevant special attacker hits it super effectively with STAB, or in the case of Mewtwo just runs Psystrike. It also doesn't really wall anything physically despite resisting Bolt Beak and Fishious Rend: its physical bulk just isn't good enough, and even with Fur Coat Zekrom can bust through with Dragon moves. A bit disappointing because I've been trying to make Goodra work in BH for quite a while. I think this is almost entirely outclassed by Eternatus.
 
An intersection of Casual Play and Methodical Research, I have actually, literally, and truly created something uniquely viable in the Balanced Hackmons metagame.

This, is, it;

Coined “Debz-OG” (Because every hit song she makes is critical):

Debz-OG AKA O’Jesus (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Ground Memory
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Shell Smash
- Double Iron Bash / Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser / Psychic Fangs
- Multi-Attack


Brave Nature so you don't impact any more valuable stat, as +2 Speed outspeeds everything besides Ninjask :mehowth:, and so you can go 2nd on the turn you Shell Smash, letting you dodge some Spectral Thief attacks, and ultimately preserve your bulk as they hit you before -1 Def and -1 SpD.

The goal is to break the common checks: Darmanitan-Z, Aegislash / Doublade, and Priority, such as Topsy-Turvey, and Galvanize / Prankster Copycat Zekrom.

I personally prefer DIB + Photon Geyser, so if you are King's Shielded, Burned, Strength Sapped, etc. you can just use Photon Immediately. I also like it for breaking Fur Coat / Unaware Toxapex, and not triggering King's Shield since it isn't a contact move, which is an asset of its own.

With Tough Claws boosting Multi-Attack to 156 base power, Double-Iron Bash to 234 base power, and Psychic Fangs to 165 base power, I find it solves many of its own problems, while being Imposterproof:

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Wobbuffet: 576-678 (98.6 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Mind you, I have not even factored in the -Def from Shell Smash, this means even if Imposter comes in after you have used Max Steel to recover your -1 Def, you can KO it. (See my replay below)

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 384-452 (81 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Double Iron Bash being Imposter's strongest move :

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Wobbuffet Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 216-254 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If everyone has -1 Defense, you are sure to KO them, and they still cannot KO you (under 66.7% damage)

If you Dynamax, you completely avoid all Flinching, and double your survivability... so you are safe.

Dynamax Perks:

1. Dynamaxing on its Psychic move removes the worry for Priority like Topsy-Turvey, and boosts Psychic moves.
2. Dynamaxing on its Steel move boosts Def and can negate the -1 Defense from Shell Smash.
3. Dynamaxing on its Ground move (Multi-Attack), ensures it reduces the foe's Speed, which can be useful, in general.
4. No Flinch! Double HP. Bypass Protect moves.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1033528332

Calcs on its typical checks:

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 310-366 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Darmanitan-Zen: 300-354 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (If it doesn't have Heavy Duty Boots, its likely a KO on Stealth Rocks). *It pains me to see this, but I have to be fair ;(

Corviknight itself is 2HKO'd and has to pray that it doesn't get Flinched, and while Haze Prankster is an option, sometimes it uses Volt Absorb, Flash Fire, and other abilities:

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 224-264 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is the vanilla Shell Smasher that we needed, and quite frankly, Unaware is not even a factor, let alone Fur Coat except on Darm-Z and a couple of others that resist STAB. #MoldyMoves

Oh, and for those interested in discovering Debz-OG here:
 
Been trying out Gen 8 BH for the past week. Surprisingly fun despite some of the cut legendaries. I think so far, the meta is starting to settle, and is fairly balanced outside of an oddball or two. I'd like to give my own thoughts on things.

New Pokemon

Zacian-C

This mon is hugely centralizing. It's like Game Freak took everything they said about balancing the game, threw it aside, and shit out a new Mega Mawile as a result. Except Zacian-C is better than Mega Mawile in almost every single way. It's broken in basically every single format its currently in. It's faster than every single Pokemon there is except for Ninjask, and is tied for highest Attack stat with Kyurem-Black (if you don't count Intrepid Sword...). Like, what the fuck? Even it's STABs are nigh god-tier. Play Rough isn't the best move due to its 90% accuracy, but it's more than made up for with it having STAB Sunsteel, Double Iron Bash (bonus points if you hax your way through a check), and even the Behemoth moves. It's Steel-type STAB is extremely reliable, and more powerful than Play Rough. The one downside this Pokemon is supposed to have, being forced to hold a useless item is hardly relevant in a metagame where items as a whole have less of an impact due to mons basing most of their strength in their movesets and abilities. And Zacian's ability, Intrepid Sword, is already meta and used on various Pokemon as it is. I almost feel hindered by not having this Pokemon on my team, and I feel like I need dedicated checks/counters to it just to be able to win games.

I frankly don't see this Pokemon staying in the tier for very long before getting suspected.

Dragapult

I'm not going to dance around with my words here. This Pokemon is increasingly standing out to me as a shitmon that people use because they want a replacement for their normgar sets. Looking at Dragapult, this Pokemon is the exact opposite of Zacian-C. Whereas Zacian-C has almost no downsides, a great type, and great STAB, Dragapult has absolutely nothing notable about it other than being a fast Ghost-type. What good is high speed if its incapable of breaking past even moderately bulky things, let alone the stuff it does outspeed? 120 base Attack is pretty mediocre. People already complain how weak Marshadow is, and Marshadow has a better offensive type and a slightly higher base Attack (125). This Pokemon doesn't even have the luxury of being bulkier than Mega Gengar. It has slightly better Defense, but slightly worse Special Defense. Otherwise, basically identical bulk wise. That weakness to Fridge and Pixilate mons sure is helping Dragapult here too.

What made Mega Gengar good was it's amazing base 170 Special Attack that allowed it to actually threaten things instead of moderately annoying your opponent by forcing them to switch to a wall only to PP stall Dragapult. Mega Gengar could entrain mons then set up to become a legitimate force to be reckoned with, meanwhile Dragapult needs to set up to even be threatening. Have a Pokemon with Haze or Strength Sap, and it's more than likely a counter to Dragapult. This mon should be ranked low on the VRs when it is implemented.

Darmanitan-Galar-Z

Darmanitan-GZ is a fast Pokemon done right. It's a hard hitting Fire-type, and Ice-type is great offensively too. This Pokemon can run a Scarf to completely body Zacian-C and various other Steel-types with V-create, and its versatile enough that it can serve as either a breaker or a revenge killer. It's not terribly hard to improof either. Completely unused on ladder as far as I see, and it's honestly a shame. This Pokemon would probably be used over most Fire-types except for Red Orb Groudon if it were in Gen 7...

I've had good success with Darmanitan-GZ and I honestly think it's viable and underestimated by most ladder players.

Dusk Mane / Solgaleo

Dusk Mane: Why use dusk mane when you can use the bad fairy doggo lmao

In all seriousness I had originally used it as a bulky pivot, but even in that regard it wasn't very good. Psychic-types seem underwhelming, and it doesn't have anything over other Steel-types except for STAB Photon. Which Solgaleo also gets, and Solgaleo is a better wall already. Even as a slow Steel-type it's outclassed, Melmetal exists...

It's not good. But it's not bad either. I don't really have much more of an opinion on it.

Solgaleo: Still a great wall, arguably even better in Gen 8 BH. While it lost it's exclusive Z-Move, and Z-Moves in general, its not too bothered by that. Flash Fire Solgaleo is still solid, and it's a pretty good overall wall. It stands out from Melmetal by having extra Special Defense and being a lot faster.

Much better than Dusk Mane in Gen 8...

Melmetal
1200px-809Melmetal.png
From the very moment Let's Go released, I saw his signature move and base stats and I knew this Pokemon would easily find a spot in Balanced Hackmons, and it's signature move would be one of the best there is. Double Iron Bash is a 120 BP move that can break sashes and has a 30% chance to flinch each hit. I don't know what the fuck Game Freak was smoking when they made Let's Go, but Melmetal hasn't changed since its inception in Let's Go, and it's a fantastic Pokemon in Gen 8 BH. I will admit I underestimated it when I first saw it. I almost lost multiple games because this Pokemon carries the weight of others. Its got respectable Attack and titanic Defense in Gen 8 BH standards. This Pokemon can and will wall Zacian-C, and is one of the few Pokemon capable of doing it. It's slow enough to be one of the best pivots there is, and I even saw someone using it in Trick Room effectively in mid latter.

Melmetal will likely be A-tier in the VR at the absolute minimum, S-tier even.

Shedinja

Somehow Game Freak gave it yet another toy to play with in the form of Heavy Duty Boots. As if Goggles in Gen 6 and Pads in Gen 7 weren't enough, now Shed has another item it can use. That's not the worst part about Shedinja. It's the fact that there's basically no good checks to it any more. Dragapult needs a turn to entrain Shed to even attack it since Moongeist is Normal-type with Normalize and Dragapult can't switch in safely since it has paper defenses. Lunala is in an even worse situation with a 4x weakness to Ghost. There's Aegislash, but Aegislash is growing steadily less appealing to me, even without its nerf considered. Dusclops is a passive mon who does absolutely nothing beyond tank, set/clear hazards, pivot, and maybe spread status. Neither Aegislash nor Dusclops will beat Shedinja without Will-o-Wisp, which sucks especially if it misses or the opponent switches in a Magic Bouncer (because let's be real, what is Aegislash/Dusclops going to do besides use status moves?).

A new buff in the form of Heavy Duty Boots with Giratina and Mega Sableye not being in the tier, it's not hard to see why Shedinja is clearly in a better spot even when it was already good in Gen 7. I won't be surprised if Shedinja gets suspected at one point.

I don't really have any other opinion on any other Pokemon. I know Corviknight is good. Kyurem-Black is the same old mon we know and love. Zekrom is a dominant force in the metagame now. Other than that, the meta isn't developed enough for gimmickier Pokemon to rise up and find niches like in Gen 7 yet. We will just have to wait for that. And I need more experience with the metagame to have a more solid insight on things. I already know most people here know better than I do about Gen 8 BH.

Quick thoughts on new abilities and such:
Intrepid Sword: probably overpowered, would not be surprised if it gets banned.
Ice Scales: the ability BH didn't think they wanted until now. the special defense version of fur coat, amazingly good in use of improofing.
Perish Body: while others might see this as useless or gimmicky, I think it has potential with suicide leads. lead a perish body mon, sack it down the line to a Zacian-C or something and put that on a timer. now you can come in and start setting up as the opponent switches out.
Punk Rock: i've seen people interested in it. just seems like a more generalized -ate ability that's easier to improof.

Dynamax Cannon: a decent replacement for core enforcer minus the 8 PP.
Dragon Darts: finally, it took Game Freak this fucking long to make a good reliable physical Dragon-type move for BH.
No Retreat: worse than I originally thought, do not use this
Bolt Beak and Fishious Rend: completely meta defining moves. even as neutral coverage they hurt hard with most Pokemon that have half a decent physical attack.
Body Press: i admit i don't really understand this move well enough to know how good it is, and prefer using Close Combat because of that.
Pyro Ball: pretty good coverage move for those who don't want to run V-create or Flare Blitz for their downsides.
Behemoth moves: They're alright I guess, I still prefer Sunsteel Strike over them, and Double Iron Bash is situationally better than both.

Overall, I like the meta, but I feel like there might end up being less options to use in Gen 8 due to the dex cut. There's still a lot of unexplored stuff, and I'm sure some people here could find use in mons that are overlooked.
 
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Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Sunsteel Strike

Simply effective, I appreciate the unique typing that Bisharp provides, allowing it to maintain an immunity to Prankster Topsy Turvey, Strength Sap, Encore shenanigans, while sporting STAB Sunsteel Strike vs all else. Immunity to Poison/Toxic (Baneful Bunker), Psychic, and a multitude of resistances lets it hit hard, while Dynamaxing lets you hit with Dark moves on turn 1. Sunsteel offers +Def, which can boost Power Trip as well.

While I am not encouraging Dynamaxing, I am listing the perks if you are backed into a corner (like having to hit Focus Sash Dragapult with Max Dark, on the switch in, and KO the next turn with Max Steel for the Defense boost - so it will not Entrain, if you don't have time to Shell Smash after you used Spore). The Speed boost will grant it gradual power boosts, which would have accumulated by the time you have used Spore + 3 Dynamax turns (having a 150 base power Power Trip, and reducing the need for Shell Smash for power). Further, if you have used Max Steel just 1x (like finishing off Focus Sash Dragapult), by the time Dynamax ends, you would actually have 180 base power with STAB.

Focus Sash is mainly for Imposter, and opposing Focus Sashers, and King's Shielders/Siky Shielders, so you can Spore it as you survive, Shell Smash, so you outspeed and KO.

Speed boost during the turns of Spore and Shell Smash enable it to turn Power Trip into 180 base power (by end of Turn 2)., or 270 after STAB (think V-Create). Focus Sash keeps it safe, and Sunsteel Strike breaks Unaware, Fur Coat, and Fairy types, Tyranitar, and Shedinja.

Replays-

Unfortunately, I have been getting a lot of forfeits, after I set-up, and rather short games. But the good news is, it is with my 2 Pokemon Team, so Bisharp gets as much spotlight it deserves, although Darm-Z helps in the 3rd replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034114288 (Forfeiting vs me)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034131496 (Forfeiting vs me)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034119114 (Forfeiting vs me via Timeout after I come back from a Topsy Turvey)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034141431 (Forfeiting vs me, but still a longer game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034144724 (Forfeiting vs me, but still a longer game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034116151 - No forfeit, and a full, longer game. *Special guest appearance by Darm-Z!

I would say it wins me 75% games I played, and 90% of the games I won were due to it alone. (Again only on a 2 mon Team, so I am sure those 5 / 20 games I lost were due to lacking 4 more Pokemon).

Before people suggest Simple. I like Speed Boost so it can outspeed the switch-in after Spore, such as Dragapult, if they pack Focus Sash. Afterall, getting Entrained on the turn after you Shell Smash means you have to switch out, and lose your sweep. It also allows me to recover from Haze and Topsy Turvey (see my 3rd game above where I make return because of Speed boost).
 
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Simply effective, I appreciate the unique typing that Bisharp provides, allowing it to maintain an immunity to Prankster Topsy Turvey, Strength Sap, Encore shenanigans, while sporting STAB Sunsteel Strike vs all else.
Ok I’ve just gotten super annoyed that you seem to bring ridiculous information up in post after post. I don’t know what 1100s ladder has done to you but no one good runs Prankster Topsy. Everyone runs Haze precisely so Dark types can’t block it.

More misinformation bc I didn’t want to quote the rest! Sash Dragapult a) afaik isn’t such a common set that you need to prep for it and b) won’t be run on Entrainment sets bc they need Ghost Memory. And Simple is an awful ability to think others should suggest, it provides little utility compared to other abilities smashers run and makes it much harder to improof.

Bisharp, NDM, etc. probably have some potential, but replays against said 1100s ladder players who clearly lack any meta knowledge and don’t use any counterplay like Imposter, Prankster, Magic Bounce, goggles, etc. doesn’t prove your point. Btw all of your sets are destroyed by prank steel resists.

This is the vanilla Shell Smasher that we needed, and quite frankly, Unaware is not even a factor, let alone Fur Coat
I’m surprised to say it but I’ve found something in an OM post I actually think is worth talking about.

a loser briefly touched on this in a previous post but I’m loving Mold Breaker as an ability on Shell Smash sweepers right now. So much counterplay to the top mons seems to be centered on ability, whether that be Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, etc., and being able to ignore those is very helpful, especially since Shed is still allowed. In particular, the Unova legends are insane sweepers with Mold Breaker.


Zekrom @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Bolt Beak
- Multi-Attack
- V-create


Reshiram @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild / Hasty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Blue Flare
- Multi-Attack
- Power Whip / Wood Hammer


Reshiram losing Judgment sucks but once you smash these guys are hard to stop. It’s basically impossible to improof once boosted, but thanks to Multi-Attack, they’re somewhat self-improofed. After one boost Imposter can only do 97 to Adamant Zekrom and 94 to Reshiram max, and you can Dynamax to live if you’ve been chipped. Pack some counterplay to the common pranksters and
-atespeeders and this should do some damage.
 
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Work's been extremely busy (retail during the holidays :psysad:) so I haven't been able to really test as much but here's some fun stuff with varying degrees of viability.

Darmanitan-Zen @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Photon Geyser/Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
- King's Shield

IMO very viable.

A couple things changed from my Prankster set, most obviously the ability. While that set performed very well overall, it gets cleanly beat by Magic Bounce users and especially Flash Fire/Primordial Sea. You COULD replace Sub and Sap with Recover and an attacking move, but that leaves you more susceptible to strong physical attackers and status. So PH was the middle ground, giving it persistent and strong recovery, immunity to status, and freeing up a slot for an extra attack. Like any setup sweeper of course Prankster Haze stops it (and Prankster Topsy Turvy if you go that way) but that's a given, and it has utility through burns and PG hitting Shed. Earth Power can be ran to beat nearly any steel but at the cost of losing near perfect self-improofing and being beat by Shed without getting a burn. It's not quite as strong vs physical attackers (priority Sap is infinitely better vs non magic bounce, and EQ ignores King's Shield) but it's more consistent overall.

Lunala@ Kasib Berry
Ability: Unaware/Fur Coat/Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Spectral Thief
- Slack Off
- Aromatherapy/Baton Pass

Niche, but maybe viable

Honestly it's kinda hard to find a (good) niche for Lunala. It's got a typing that leaves it extremely vulnerable to common types, but very bulky stats overall. What stood out to me most was stab Geyser and Thief (with good attacking stats unlike say Aegislash with SSS+Thief), making it in theory a great offensive support mon. Of course, in practice it's not that great, but it works better than I expected. Kasib berry feels like a must, though you could use a scarf on a different (fully offensive) set. Kasib>Colbur for opposing Thieves and Imposters. If it can steal a speed and atk/spatk boost, it makes great use of dynamax thanks to PG setting terrain and converting to a physical attack if you get atk boosts, plus def drops for ghost. Honestly Unaware is a hard ability to make work because there's so many extremely powerful unboosted breakers (Kyu-BW, Beak Zekrom, Rend Skew, anything with band/specs, etc) but it does what it needs to and Fur Coat or Scales are still options depending on what you want to check.

Excadrill@ Ground Memory
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bolt Beak/Sub
- Shell Smash/Shift Gear

Has a lot of potential

Not sure if Excadrill is the best mon for this set but man, when this gets going it's really monstrous. It needs to set up on an expected switch or a passive mon, but once it does the only real hope is Prankster Haze or Unaware/Fur Coat Thief on a not ground weak steel resist. Otherwise you need to get extremely specific like Volt Absorb Corviknight. Its self imposter proof until either 75.2% or 85.7% depending on the nature. Shift Gear works until 41.2% or 30.1%. 3rd moveslot either to beat Golisopod/Corviknight, or stop status. Magic Bounce could also work to block Wisp on setup, but you're beat by ate-speed.

Sprslm768.gif
steelix.png

For anyone using Golisopod, Steelix makes an excellent defensive partner for it. They have near perfect type synergy, and wall most each other's checks. Not to mention, they both have badass designs! Because Regenerator is my favorite ability and I do all I can to make my favorite things work even when they're not great, that's what I've been using on both. It's cute because you can switch between them any time something threatens one and heal, but Fur Coat/PH Golisopod and Ice Scales/Flash Fire Steelix is probably the way to go. Steelix also improofs and hard walls non V Create/Rend Zekrom. Here's my sets just cause:

Steelix@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Wish
- Parting Shot

Golisopod @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Scald/Crabhammer
- Nuzzle/Poison Fang
- Knock Off

EQ to kill stuff even with weak offenses cause ground stab hits a bunch of stuff. Wish+Shot+Regen let's you pivot, lower stats, and heal 2 pokemon so that's useful. Defog cause Steelix doesn't care about hazards besides spikes so who better to use it besides corviknight? Also doesn't get blocked like spin. Helmet to wear down attackers and beat Shed.

Uturn cause stab slow pivot, literally the only move every Golis bar Triage needs to run. Scald because burns or Crabhammer for strong stab, Nuzzle because paralysis or Fang for poison, Knock Off because strong utility. Vest so it has good mixed bulk.

Neither set is super optimized and again, not the best abilities but I just like sharing sets, and I can admit when it's a fun/not super viable set. Wish+Pivot+Regen is really good though, Steelix just isn't the best user of it. Maybe Melmetal for a slow pivot and high HP Wish passing?
 
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Kyurem-White @ Throat Spray
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Ice Beam / Frost Breath / Dynamax Cannon
- Imprison
- Haze

Wow!

This might literally be the best set for Kyurem-White... period.

With Imprison, you not only stop Haze, but stop Imposter. With Simple you Double the effects of Clangorous Soul, which triggers the Doubled effects of Throat Spray. Due to the universal Stat boosts and disarming of Imposter you end up with calcs

View attachment 214446

With +Defenses, you also end up with surviving priority like no big deal:

252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-White: 107-126 (23.5 - 27.7%) -- 77.9% chance to 4HKO

Overall, being at +4 SpA, while blocking Haze, not being adversely affected by King’s Shield, Baneful Bunker, or Spiky Shield, and having the option for Frost Breath to better break Scarf Imposter sets, means Kyurem-W is near unstoppable after just 2 Turns (Imprison and Clangorous Soul)

View attachment 214470

Kyurem-W has the bulk, and the power to keep even resists from trying to take it, plus it can always Dynamax to summon Hail to break Sturdy/Sash, and 2HKO through its toughest resists

+4 252+ SpA Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

You could always switch to a Dragon move since there are less Fairies, and you can KO Imposter that way. The Dynamax Cannon could also break anyything like Toxapex that tries to Dynamax to hang on:

+4 252+ SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-White Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 369-435 (121.3 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Otherwise, with Ice Beam as you Dynamax:

+4 252+ SpA Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 240-282 (78.9 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (I edited it to match Dynamax at 130 base power, then add chip Hail damage).

For those who don’t know - Throat Spray: +1 SpA after using a Sound Move.

Throat Spray will be great for No Guard Pokemon that use Sing, Unburden Pokemon that need an immediate boost (think Clangorous Soul+Throat Spray), and a viable Alternative to Choice Specs for Boomburst and/or Clanging Scales sets (think a Kyurem-White without setup).
 
Glad you showed the flaw in your set in the post, even if it was sandwiched in between a good amount of fluff:
In order for the set to work you need two free turns to imprison and then set up, which no good player would give you. This set would beat people who have bad teams but that's really about it.
We are really getting tired of your bad sets and would appreciate it if you stopped posting them. You may have noticed that a moderator deleted over 20 posts from here, many of which were yours. That's because there have been many people who hesitate to post on this thread because they know that they will get an ignorant, misinformative response from you. It seems a bit extreme to ban you from posting here, but to be honest, your posts are noticeably lowering the threads' quality, and many well-respected players want you to just stop posting.
 
Glad you showed the flaw in your set in the post, even if it was sandwiched in between a good amount of fluff:
In order for the set to work you need two free turns to imprison and then set up, which no good player would give you. This set would beat people who have bad teams but that's really about it.
We are really getting tired of your bad sets and would appreciate it if you stopped posting them. You may have noticed that a moderator deleted over 20 posts from here, many of which were yours. That's because there have been many people who hesitate to post on this thread because they know that they will get an ignorant, misinformative response from you. It seems a bit extreme to ban you from posting here, but to be honest, your posts are noticeably lowering the threads' quality, and many well-respected players want you to just stop posting.
Wouldn’t I just send Kyurem-W (slow pivot) into something it forces out? Clangorous Soul on their switch to something else, as they watch me boost, and then Imprison Haze if they switch again, or Imprison Haze the same turn they use Haze (Their Prankster May outspeed but I can just Clangorous Soul again next turn

I don’t understand why people make it seem like just because it requires set up it won’t work. Not everything runs Choice items to hit turn 1.

Also, I provided insight into the item as a whole, so regardless of the set I posted, I made an informed post so other concepts can take advantage of a forgotten item that was introduced this generation.

I don’t want to find out what that mean part is, so I assume it’s best to not click it, since you hid it. Anyways, I hope you understand that if I build a team to sync with my Kyurem-W set, I would be able to enable it to set up (slow Pivot), etc.
 
I don’t want to find out what that mean part is, so I assume it’s best to not click it, since you hid it.
We are really getting tired of your bad sets and would appreciate it if you stopped posting them. You may have noticed that a moderator deleted over 20 posts from here, many of which were yours. That's because there have been many people who hesitate to post on this thread because they know that they will get an ignorant, misinformative response from you. It seems a bit extreme to ban you from posting here, but to be honest, your posts are noticeably lowering the threads' quality, and many well-respected players want you to just stop posting.
 
I don’t think that makes sense, your subjective opinions are not even necessarily accurate or fair. You are not a moderator, and there are many posts that have been liked and agreed with. I don’t think I recall having posts deleted from this thread, and it seems like at best you are exaggerating whatever point you are making.

I also think it’s strange to try and ban someone, I have playtested the sets I have been posting and I am getting good results from the replays, as you can see above.

Just because you don’t like them, and have not bothered to use them yourself, in a brand new metagame that we are all learning, which I view this as a sort of grace period for learning what works best and what doesn’t, it seems a little sudden to make this claim.

In fact, I have tried to be positive and informative, especially in prior posts explaining my sets, like with Bisharp, both in the original posts, and in the responses asking for more details on its viability.

Calling something bad because it needs to use a set up move isn’t really fair. Kyurem-W doesn’t even need to use Imprison, it could just as easily just use Clangorous Soul and attack. The only thing I added was counter measures to usual checks like Prankster Haze, and Imposter. That, if anything, makes it viable in spite of usual checks to set up sweepers...

Lastly, SuperSkylake some of your sets seem gimmicky, like Grass form Silvally, and I doubt anything has truly tested it beyond yourself. Nevertheless, I embraced your posts because it’s new metagame, you thought of the general mechanics changes of Gen 8 for it (type change without the item), etc.

Overall, many people may look at your creative and new set as non-standard and maybe unviable bc they don’t see the need for it to put in a 6 slot team when they could use something else. Point is, just bc it isn’t a new perfect idea doesn’t make the concept completely useless. Perhaps people who didn’t like the set thought it’s not an ideal, but also not bad enough to ban someone over. Please speak for yourself, and don’t try and rally other people to look down on someone. I didn’t do it to you, even when your set... and overall post, was questionable.
 
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The Immortal

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You are not a moderator
It is I, a moderator. Kindly stop using this thread to post every single idea you think of. This is not a dumping ground for them. New players reading this thread would assume these are good sets. I trust the high level BH players when they say these are not. This is your final warning. If you continue to spam this thread with unproven sets and misinform people then you will be banned from posting here. Thank you and have a nice day.
 
I think it's important to note that posting a different or strange set isn't inherently a bad thing. However, it's important to think about and acknowledge the flaws in your sets, as well as take all criticism into consideration if you do.

This should go without saying but there is almost never a perfect set for anything that can cover all bases and beat everything. I throw the phrase "in theory" in a good amount of sets I post because on paper something may look great but in practice it doesn't perform. For instance, one of the earliest sets I posted was Perish Body Zamazenta C. In theory it beats physical attackers, but in practice a simple U Turn throws everything off. In theory a Simple Soul Spray Set (really satisfying to say btw) that blocks haze SEEMS unbeatable. But what about Ice Scales or Unaware Spectral Thief on an ice resist? Taunt? Phasing? Even cheekier things like Topsy Turvy, or Disable. Mono attacking sweepers are hard to make work right and most people (like me) can attest to that through experience.

Using language like "the best set period" is harmful to new players looking for benchmarked, standard sets to use to understand the fundamentals of the metagame. Sure I can reach decently high on most ladders I play on, but that doesn't make me a top player nor immune to criticism. Taking criticism, especially from a top player, can help you grow and learn, and in general life it's good to learn from criticism. Anyways I'm not gonna let this post go on forever, enjoy your day everyone and happy holidays.
 
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alright so obligatory "i havent played gen 8 bh yet" but OM! i read your posts last gen and you don't seem to have changed much so i'm just gonna post here.

i do not mean to be degrading with this post, instead i will simply attempt to explain what's going on.

first of all, just because i haven't used a set doesn't mean i can't tell if it's good or bad. for example:

GOD HIMSELF!!11!1!! (Arceus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Recover
- Stored Power
- Power Trip

i've never used this set myself, but even without that i can tell that it's bad. i've faced it (and every defense-boosting set) too many times on low ladder and it's never done anything of note. i am unconvinced that it can accomplish anything at all against any decent team. all it does is not die for a while, and in bh you need to do much more than that to win.

now, on to the main part of my post. this is the important part, so i would like you to read this.

the sets you use, like all those imprison sweepers and the drum slaking from last gen, are gimmicks.

let me just get this out there right away, there's nothing wrong with using gimmicks. they have potential to work in high level play and sometimes good players do make use of them. for example, i recall sugarhigh making use of a team with unburden drum dusk mane + refrigerate espeed drum mmx. that was a cool team.

the problem arises when you limit yourself to only using gimmicks rather than making use of fundamentals. this is probably because you'd like to give yourself a higher chance of beating the "good players" out there, but i think it has hurt both your overall consistency and your ability to grow as a player.

gimmicks are, at their core, inconsistent. teams built on fundamentals rely on removing options from their opponent, while the gimmicks assume these options are not there in the first place, due to player inexperience or matchup. if the opponent sees what's coming and the matchup isn't horrible, they can more than likely form a plan to avoid losing to it.

now, your fundamental skill isn't terrible, otherwise you wouldn't be beating anyone in the first place. but it still has a long way to go if you want to be really good. i would recommend building and using teams that have the goal of improving the overall position, not just winning the game in the fastest way possible. i think you will see much more consistency and potential growth if your main ways of winning don't hinge on a single turn going the way you want it to.
 
I’ve kind of been wondering about whether a Clangorous Soul Throat Spray Unburden set would be any better.

Kyurem-White @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Ice Beam
- Dynamax Cannon
- Blue Flare / Earth Power

Ice Beam and Dynamax Cannon are STAB, while Blue Flare is for Levitate Steel-types, Earth Power is for Flash Fire Steels. Basically choose which one walls you. In theory, you get a one-turn setup and doubled speed from Unburden, though I’m pretty sure it’s one of those cases of “better on paper than in practice” due to being too vulnerable to Unaware mons with Spectral/Prankster Haze.
 
I think for anything with Unburden, it's incredibly important to know WHEN to set up. You only get 1 real chance to use it and if you're forced to switch, your sweeper is kind of neutered for the rest of the game. Unburden is a great ability and helps to imposterproof your sweeper as well, it's a case of high risk/reward and sending it in to close a game out rather than coming in and hoping to take the whole team down in one go. Taking down Prankster or Unaware checks as well as walls to your sweeper or ensuring you have means of dealing with them post-setup is crucial.
 

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