BH Balanced Hackmons

[Champion Leon]

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Sunsteel Strike

Simply effective, I appreciate the unique typing that Bisharp provides, allowing it to maintain an immunity to Prankster Topsy Turvey, Strength Sap, Encore shenanigans, while sporting STAB Sunsteel Strike vs all else. Immunity to Poison/Toxic (Baneful Bunker), Psychic, and a multitude of resistances lets it hit hard, while Dynamaxing lets you hit with Dark moves on turn 1. Sunsteel offers +Def, which can boost Power Trip as well.

While I am not encouraging Dynamaxing, I am listing the perks if you are backed into a corner (like having to hit Focus Sash Dragapult with Max Dark, on the switch in, and KO the next turn with Max Steel for the Defense boost - so it will not Entrain, if you don't have time to Shell Smash after you used Spore). The Speed boost will grant it gradual power boosts, which would have accumulated by the time you have used Spore + 3 Dynamax turns (having a 150 base power Power Trip, and reducing the need for Shell Smash for power). Further, if you have used Max Steel just 1x (like finishing off Focus Sash Dragapult), by the time Dynamax ends, you would actually have 180 base power with STAB.

Focus Sash is mainly for Imposter, and opposing Focus Sashers, and King's Shielders/Siky Shielders, so you can Spore it as you survive, Shell Smash, so you outspeed and KO.

Speed boost during the turns of Spore and Shell Smash enable it to turn Power Trip into 180 base power (by end of Turn 2)., or 270 after STAB (think V-Create). Focus Sash keeps it safe, and Sunsteel Strike breaks Unaware, Fur Coat, and Fairy types, Tyranitar, and Shedinja.

Replays-

Unfortunately, I have been getting a lot of forfeits, after I set-up, and rather short games. But the good news is, it is with my 2 Pokemon Team, so Bisharp gets as much spotlight it deserves, although Darm-Z helps in the 3rd replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034114288 (Forfeiting vs me)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034131496 (Forfeiting vs me)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034119114 (Forfeiting vs me via Timeout after I come back from a Topsy Turvey)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034141431 (Forfeiting vs me, but still a longer game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034144724 (Forfeiting vs me, but still a longer game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1034116151 - No forfeit, and a full, longer game. *Special guest appearance by Darm-Z!

I would say it wins me 75% games I played, and 90% of the games I won were due to it alone. (Again only on a 2 mon Team, so I am sure those 5 / 20 games I lost were due to lacking 4 more Pokemon).

Before people suggest Simple. I like Speed Boost so it can outspeed the switch-in after Spore, such as Dragapult, if they pack Focus Sash. Afterall, getting Entrained on the turn after you Shell Smash means you have to switch out, and lose your sweep. It also allows me to recover from Haze and Topsy Turvey (see my 3rd game above where I make return because of Speed boost).

 

[abriel]

Simply effective, I appreciate the unique typing that Bisharp provides, allowing it to maintain an immunity to Prankster Topsy Turvey, Strength Sap, Encore shenanigans, while sporting STAB Sunsteel Strike vs all else.

Ok I’ve just gotten super annoyed that you seem to bring ridiculous information up in post after post. I don’t know what 1100s ladder has done to you but no one good runs Prankster Topsy. Everyone runs Haze precisely so Dark types can’t block it.

More misinformation bc I didn’t want to quote the rest! Sash Dragapult a) afaik isn’t such a common set that you need to prep for it and b) won’t be run on Entrainment sets bc they need Ghost Memory. And Simple is an awful ability to think others should suggest, it provides little utility compared to other abilities smashers run and makes it much harder to improof.

Bisharp, NDM, etc. probably have some potential, but replays against said 1100s ladder players who clearly lack any meta knowledge and don’t use any counterplay like Imposter, Prankster, Magic Bounce, goggles, etc. doesn’t prove your point. Btw all of your sets are destroyed by prank steel resists.

This is the vanilla Shell Smasher that we needed, and quite frankly, Unaware is not even a factor, let alone Fur Coat

I’m surprised to say it but I’ve found something in an OM post I actually think is worth talking about.

a loser briefly touched on this in a previous post but I’m loving Mold Breaker as an ability on Shell Smash sweepers right now. So much counterplay to the top mons seems to be centered on ability, whether that be Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, etc., and being able to ignore those is very helpful, especially since Shed is still allowed. In particular, the Unova legends are insane sweepers with Mold Breaker.

What I’ve been running

Zekrom @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Bolt Beak
- Multi-Attack
- V-create

Reshiram @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild / Hasty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Blue Flare
- Multi-Attack
- Power Whip / Wood Hammer

Reshiram losing Judgment sucks but once you smash these guys are hard to stop. It’s basically impossible to improof once boosted, but thanks to Multi-Attack, they’re somewhat self-improofed. After one boost Imposter can only do 97 to Adamant Zekrom and 94 to Reshiram max, and you can Dynamax to live if you’ve been chipped. Pack some counterplay to the common pranksters and
-atespeeders and this should do some damage.

 

[SonOfDusk]

Work's been extremely busy (retail during the holidays ) so I haven't been able to really test as much but here's some fun stuff with varying degrees of viability.

PH Darm Z

Darmanitan-Zen @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Photon Geyser/Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
- King's Shield

IMO very viable.

A couple things changed from my Prankster set, most obviously the ability. While that set performed very well overall, it gets cleanly beat by Magic Bounce users and especially Flash Fire/Primordial Sea. You COULD replace Sub and Sap with Recover and an attacking move, but that leaves you more susceptible to strong physical attackers and status. So PH was the middle ground, giving it persistent and strong recovery, immunity to status, and freeing up a slot for an extra attack. Like any setup sweeper of course Prankster Haze stops it (and Prankster Topsy Turvy if you go that way) but that's a given, and it has utility through burns and PG hitting Shed. Earth Power can be ran to beat nearly any steel but at the cost of losing near perfect self-improofing and being beat by Shed without getting a burn. It's not quite as strong vs physical attackers (priority Sap is infinitely better vs non magic bounce, and EQ ignores King's Shield) but it's more consistent overall.

Mixed Offensive Support Lunala

Lunala@ Kasib Berry
Ability: Unaware/Fur Coat/Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Spectral Thief
- Slack Off
- Aromatherapy/Baton Pass

Niche, but maybe viable

Honestly it's kinda hard to find a (good) niche for Lunala. It's got a typing that leaves it extremely vulnerable to common types, but very bulky stats overall. What stood out to me most was stab Geyser and Thief (with good attacking stats unlike say Aegislash with SSS+Thief), making it in theory a great offensive support mon. Of course, in practice it's not that great, but it works better than I expected. Kasib berry feels like a must, though you could use a scarf on a different (fully offensive) set. Kasib>Colbur for opposing Thieves and Imposters. If it can steal a speed and atk/spatk boost, it makes great use of dynamax thanks to PG setting terrain and converting to a physical attack if you get atk boosts, plus def drops for ghost. Honestly Unaware is a hard ability to make work because there's so many extremely powerful unboosted breakers (Kyu-BW, Beak Zekrom, Rend Skew, anything with band/specs, etc) but it does what it needs to and Fur Coat or Scales are still options depending on what you want to check.

Dazzle Smash Excadrill

Excadrill@ Ground Memory
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bolt Beak/Sub
- Shell Smash/Shift Gear

Has a lot of potential

Not sure if Excadrill is the best mon for this set but man, when this gets going it's really monstrous. It needs to set up on an expected switch or a passive mon, but once it does the only real hope is Prankster Haze or Unaware/Fur Coat Thief on a not ground weak steel resist. Otherwise you need to get extremely specific like Volt Absorb Corviknight. Its self imposter proof until either 75.2% or 85.7% depending on the nature. Shift Gear works until 41.2% or 30.1%. 3rd moveslot either to beat Golisopod/Corviknight, or stop status. Magic Bounce could also work to block Wisp on setup, but you're beat by ate-speed.

For anyone using Golisopod, Steelix makes an excellent defensive partner for it. They have near perfect type synergy, and wall most each other's checks. Not to mention, they both have badass designs! Because Regenerator is my favorite ability and I do all I can to make my favorite things work even when they're not great, that's what I've been using on both. It's cute because you can switch between them any time something threatens one and heal, but Fur Coat/PH Golisopod and Ice Scales/Flash Fire Steelix is probably the way to go. Steelix also improofs and hard walls non V Create/Rend Zekrom. Here's my sets just cause:

Golisolix Steelisopod

Steelix@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Wish
- Parting Shot

Golisopod @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Scald/Crabhammer
- Nuzzle/Poison Fang
- Knock Off

EQ to kill stuff even with weak offenses cause ground stab hits a bunch of stuff. Wish+Shot+Regen let's you pivot, lower stats, and heal 2 pokemon so that's useful. Defog cause Steelix doesn't care about hazards besides spikes so who better to use it besides corviknight? Also doesn't get blocked like spin. Helmet to wear down attackers and beat Shed.

Uturn cause stab slow pivot, literally the only move every Golis bar Triage needs to run. Scald because burns or Crabhammer for strong stab, Nuzzle because paralysis or Fang for poison, Knock Off because strong utility. Vest so it has good mixed bulk.

Neither set is super optimized and again, not the best abilities but I just like sharing sets, and I can admit when it's a fun/not super viable set. Wish+Pivot+Regen is really good though, Steelix just isn't the best user of it. Maybe Melmetal for a slow pivot and high HP Wish passing?

 

[Champion Leon]

Hide

Kyurem-White @ Throat Spray
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Ice Beam / Frost Breath / Dynamax Cannon
- Imprison
- Haze

Wow!

This might literally be the best set for Kyurem-White... period.

With Imprison, you not only stop Haze, but stop Imposter. With Simple you Double the effects of Clangorous Soul, which triggers the Doubled effects of Throat Spray. Due to the universal Stat boosts and disarming of Imposter you end up with calcs

View attachment 214446

With +Defenses, you also end up with surviving priority like no big deal:

252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-White: 107-126 (23.5 - 27.7%) -- 77.9% chance to 4HKO

Overall, being at +4 SpA, while blocking Haze, not being adversely affected by King’s Shield, Baneful Bunker, or Spiky Shield, and having the option for Frost Breath to better break Scarf Imposter sets, means Kyurem-W is near unstoppable after just 2 Turns (Imprison and Clangorous Soul)

View attachment 214470

Kyurem-W has the bulk, and the power to keep even resists from trying to take it, plus it can always Dynamax to summon Hail to break Sturdy/Sash, and 2HKO through its toughest resists

+4 252+ SpA Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

You could always switch to a Dragon move since there are less Fairies, and you can KO Imposter that way. The Dynamax Cannon could also break anyything like Toxapex that tries to Dynamax to hang on:

+4 252+ SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-White Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 369-435 (121.3 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Otherwise, with Ice Beam as you Dynamax:

+4 252+ SpA Kyurem-White Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 240-282 (78.9 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (I edited it to match Dynamax at 130 base power, then add chip Hail damage).

For those who don’t know - Throat Spray: +1 SpA after using a Sound Move.

Throat Spray will be great for No Guard Pokemon that use Sing, Unburden Pokemon that need an immediate boost (think Clangorous Soul+Throat Spray), and a viable Alternative to Choice Specs for Boomburst and/or Clanging Scales sets (think a Kyurem-White without setup).

 

[SuperSkylake]

Glad you showed the flaw in your set in the post, even if it was sandwiched in between a good amount of fluff:
In order for the set to work you need two free turns to imprison and then set up, which no good player would give you. This set would beat people who have bad teams but that's really about it.

Mean stuff

We are really getting tired of your bad sets and would appreciate it if you stopped posting them. You may have noticed that a moderator deleted over 20 posts from here, many of which were yours. That's because there have been many people who hesitate to post on this thread because they know that they will get an ignorant, misinformative response from you. It seems a bit extreme to ban you from posting here, but to be honest, your posts are noticeably lowering the threads' quality, and many well-respected players want you to just stop posting.

 

[anaconja]

I don’t want to find out what that mean part is, so I assume it’s best to not click it, since you hid it.

We are really getting tired of your bad sets and would appreciate it if you stopped posting them. You may have noticed that a moderator deleted over 20 posts from here, many of which were yours. That's because there have been many people who hesitate to post on this thread because they know that they will get an ignorant, misinformative response from you. It seems a bit extreme to ban you from posting here, but to be honest, your posts are noticeably lowering the threads' quality, and many well-respected players want you to just stop posting.

 

[The Immortal]

You are not a moderator

It is I, a moderator. Kindly stop using this thread to post every single idea you think of. This is not a dumping ground for them. New players reading this thread would assume these are good sets. I trust the high level BH players when they say these are not. This is your final warning. If you continue to spam this thread with unproven sets and misinform people then you will be banned from posting here. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[SonOfDusk]

I think it's important to note that posting a different or strange set isn't inherently a bad thing. However, it's important to think about and acknowledge the flaws in your sets, as well as take all criticism into consideration if you do.

This should go without saying but there is almost never a perfect set for anything that can cover all bases and beat everything. I throw the phrase "in theory" in a good amount of sets I post because on paper something may look great but in practice it doesn't perform. For instance, one of the earliest sets I posted was Perish Body Zamazenta C. In theory it beats physical attackers, but in practice a simple U Turn throws everything off. In theory a Simple Soul Spray Set (really satisfying to say btw) that blocks haze SEEMS unbeatable. But what about Ice Scales or Unaware Spectral Thief on an ice resist? Taunt? Phasing? Even cheekier things like Topsy Turvy, or Disable. Mono attacking sweepers are hard to make work right and most people (like me) can attest to that through experience.

Using language like "the best set period" is harmful to new players looking for benchmarked, standard sets to use to understand the fundamentals of the metagame. Sure I can reach decently high on most ladders I play on, but that doesn't make me a top player nor immune to criticism. Taking criticism, especially from a top player, can help you grow and learn, and in general life it's good to learn from criticism. Anyways I'm not gonna let this post go on forever, enjoy your day everyone and happy holidays.

 

[cityscapes]

alright so obligatory "i havent played gen 8 bh yet" but OM! i read your posts last gen and you don't seem to have changed much so i'm just gonna post here.

i do not mean to be degrading with this post, instead i will simply attempt to explain what's going on.

first of all, just because i haven't used a set doesn't mean i can't tell if it's good or bad. for example:

GOD HIMSELF!!11!1!! (Arceus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Recover
- Stored Power
- Power Trip

i've never used this set myself, but even without that i can tell that it's bad. i've faced it (and every defense-boosting set) too many times on low ladder and it's never done anything of note. i am unconvinced that it can accomplish anything at all against any decent team. all it does is not die for a while, and in bh you need to do much more than that to win.

now, on to the main part of my post. this is the important part, so i would like you to read this.

the sets you use, like all those imprison sweepers and the drum slaking from last gen, are gimmicks.

let me just get this out there right away, there's nothing wrong with using gimmicks. they have potential to work in high level play and sometimes good players do make use of them. for example, i recall sugarhigh making use of a team with unburden drum dusk mane + refrigerate espeed drum mmx. that was a cool team.

the problem arises when you limit yourself to only using gimmicks rather than making use of fundamentals. this is probably because you'd like to give yourself a higher chance of beating the "good players" out there, but i think it has hurt both your overall consistency and your ability to grow as a player.

gimmicks are, at their core, inconsistent. teams built on fundamentals rely on removing options from their opponent, while the gimmicks assume these options are not there in the first place, due to player inexperience or matchup. if the opponent sees what's coming and the matchup isn't horrible, they can more than likely form a plan to avoid losing to it.

now, your fundamental skill isn't terrible, otherwise you wouldn't be beating anyone in the first place. but it still has a long way to go if you want to be really good. i would recommend building and using teams that have the goal of improving the overall position, not just winning the game in the fastest way possible. i think you will see much more consistency and potential growth if your main ways of winning don't hinge on a single turn going the way you want it to.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

I’ve kind of been wondering about whether a Clangorous Soul Throat Spray Unburden set would be any better.

Kyurem-White @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Ice Beam
- Dynamax Cannon
- Blue Flare / Earth Power

Ice Beam and Dynamax Cannon are STAB, while Blue Flare is for Levitate Steel-types, Earth Power is for Flash Fire Steels. Basically choose which one walls you. In theory, you get a one-turn setup and doubled speed from Unburden, though I’m pretty sure it’s one of those cases of “better on paper than in practice” due to being too vulnerable to Unaware mons with Spectral/Prankster Haze.

 

[SonOfDusk]

I think for anything with Unburden, it's incredibly important to know WHEN to set up. You only get 1 real chance to use it and if you're forced to switch, your sweeper is kind of neutered for the rest of the game. Unburden is a great ability and helps to imposterproof your sweeper as well, it's a case of high risk/reward and sending it in to close a game out rather than coming in and hoping to take the whole team down in one go. Taking down Prankster or Unaware checks as well as walls to your sweeper or ensuring you have means of dealing with them post-setup is crucial.

 

[Chessking345]

BH Secret Santa Teams​

All the teams have been sent in (I will send them out in a sec)! This year we had 9 participants (Magii a loser MAMP GL Volkner pileosand SuperSkylake Mega metaboss Anaconja Chessking345) and these are the teams that have been featured in this years' BHSS (arranged in no particular order).









Thanks to everyone who participated!

 

[Ren]

Thanks to whoever made the Shed Stall. It looks rly fun and I can tell a lot of thought was put into it. I hope you got a nice team as well, happy holidays to all of you :)

Also thanks Chessking for hosting again, can't imagine it was easy

 

[theritz6262]

A quick warning before a new player takes this seriously, I don't play this meta and just looked at what seems to be a statistically good set based on what I found. If people find that I'm doing what OM! did, (As in dumping all my ideas here) that's fine, I'll take this down and go play a bit to test it out.

Runerigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Electrify
- Destiny Bond
- Metal Burst
- Soft-Boiled

So obviously the main thing with this set is Prankster+Electrify to make you immune to moves. The two problems I see with this so far is that it's helpless against dark types due to Prankster and that since it's locked with using Electrify it's forced to run a completely stall oriented set. Since Serebii says electrify isn't affected by Magic Bounce, those are the weaknesses I see so far. I also looked on the usage statistics posted and only found one Dark type in the top 20, that being Tyranitar at #7, and the next one being Mandibuzz at #33, and I checked multiple times. If you wish to not use Prankster on this though, then

Silvally-Ground @ Water/Ground Memory
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Electrify
- Multi-Attack
- Spectral Thief
- Whatever

This doesn't have the weaknesses of the Prankster set, but trades them out for weaknesses with not guaranteeing that you'll get that electrify whenever possible. This is because the speed stat of Silvally isn't the best for this set, as Flygon could probably do this better, but Flygon trades 100 base attack and speed for 80 in all other stats, which I think isn't worth it. Mold Breaker is there to deal with Shedinja, Multi-Attack to deal with Imposter, Spectral Thief for stat stealing and being better than Sacred Sword, and I couldn't think of a seemingly decent fourth move. You could probably sack Mold Breaker and put Sunsteel for the fourth slot, and use something else, but that's up to whoever uses this thing.

Overall, this seems to be a good set in theory, but I'm not by any means guaranteeing it's success.

 

[Champion Leon]

I’ve kind of been wondering about whether a Clangorous Soul Throat Spray Unburden set would be any better.

Kyurem-White @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Ice Beam
- Dynamax Cannon
- Blue Flare / Earth Power

Ice Beam and Dynamax Cannon are STAB, while Blue Flare is for Levitate Steel-types, Earth Power is for Flash Fire Steels. Basically choose which one walls you. In theory, you get a one-turn setup and doubled speed from Unburden, though I’m pretty sure it’s one of those cases of “better on paper than in practice” due to being too vulnerable to Unaware mons with Spectral/Prankster Haze.

Maybe Reshiram with Blue Flare, Dynamax Cannon, Earth Power, and Clangorous Soul? Ice and Dragon are somewhat redundant, but having both Fire and Ground coverage in one set seems viable since you are using 1 for STAB.

You could also consider that Prankster/Unaware are typically weak to at least 1 of those moves: Toxapex, Aegislash, etc. However, Flash Fire Corviknight, and Ice Scales Primarina are still walls.

In this case it may be better to just use Clanging Scales, Blue Flare, Moongeist, and Earth Power with Unburden. Treat it like a Specs user, and let the item for +1 SpA trigger Unburden via Clanging Scales as the Sound attack. Moongeist Breaks Ice Scales Darmanitan-Z, while Earth Power breaks Toxapex.

Again, this isn't for making it perfect, just going with the theme of Unburden + Throat Spray, based on your idea of being walled by Steels. I would say this would make more sense on Reshiram, due to STAB.

Lastly, as I mentioned in my initial Kyurem-White post. Consider Throat Spray on a Boomburst Fridge set. You get +1 after using it, and it matters if you are going to Dynamax, so you get the +1 SpA. It also matters if you are not going to Dynamax, since you still wont be choice locked.

Maybe the best way to view the Throat Spray, is as a sub for Choice Specs, rather than a set-up sweeper. This way you don't rely on it, just view it as a more flexible bonus.

 

[avyrie]

Thanks to whoever that made the escavalier team! It’s pretty fun to use. Thanks to chessking too for arranging the event!
The 7th team was actually good, ‘new players’ can look to that (e: only saying that cuz it beat me, ok jk)
Also OM! can you stop posting so much fr, not saying ur posts r trash (sorry, 80% of them are) but every 2 posts one of them are yours. They are obviously of lower quality than other posts here, and I can tell you that it has a pretty big effect to new players. For me when I explore new metas i just look for some sets that appeal most to me, which most of them are set up sweepers like urs, and require a lot of team support in order to work. The Kyurem-White set can work, only when opposing prankster is gone, you get the perfect opportunity to dynamax, the resist to ur ice move literally can’t do anything to you, no unaware, etc. There’s so much other things that you’ve assumed they didn’t exist in your posts as aforementioned. And your posts stream can go infinitely on and on because of such a high power level in BH, unlike other metas. There are so many sweepers that can sweep the entire team, if you say they can.
As a BH player that is at least ladder top 50 (maybe I dropped don’t judge me, I was ranked 20 ok?), I hope you can stop posting any ideas that just pop up in your brain, and think twice before you post.

 

[MAMP]

thanks for arranging this chessking, and thanks to whoever built my excadrill team! and my deepest apologies to whoever sensibly requested a ph zacian team and ended up with a centiskorch

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

Maybe I should have said this earlier, but you can replace Kyurem-W with something else for the Throat Spray Clanger Unburden set.

 

[anaconja]

It is self-sufficient and uses Dynamax as a lead to avoid taking hits from hazards, or after anything has set up, and if something sets-up or straight-up attacks, it has doubled the HP to survive hits better, and has immediate protections like Psychic Terrain, and the +Speed boost so it can go first (hitting first with Max Flying as you Dynamax, then being 1st next turn using another Max move).

Offensive sets don't have to be, and usually cannot afford to be, self-sufficient (by self-sufficient I assume you mean that it doesn't need team support since it hits everything). This set is yet another gimmick because it relies on the player having Dynamax, and the Psychic/Flying attacks don't really serve a purpose after Dynamax ends (you beat Shedinja with Max Hailstorm and Toxapex with whatever dynamax ground is). Additionally, while speed is nice and whatever, you really only need to outspeed walls to be a good offensive set. TC Zekrom and Specs Kyurem-W are good examples from last gen - compared to other attackers, they're really slow, but it doesn't hurt a team in any way, it just means the team plays more defensively, focusing on slow pivots.

This lead has served me well, and is likely the best offensive set I have posted thus far in this thread.

That's not much of an achievement.

Regarding my other Kyurem-White set, I have also seen it useful, but I do own its a mono set b/c I couldn't fit coverage without giving up Imprison Haze. Again, if I only posted a standard Shell Smash set, people would say "but Prankster Haze", so that's why I thought of it. It is legit taking feedback from the post reply to my Bisharp set about Prankster Haze. So I used that reply as constructive input to prevent the same critique. It's like no matter what I post it's not good enough. A non-mono sweeper isn't good, an anti-Imposter/Hazer isn't good. What's left?

You're trying to fix the wrong thing - if weird Shell Smash sets don't work how about you start thinking of sets that bring big initial power instead of trying to cheese your way out of Shell Smash's consistent checks?

Yes, Shell Smash sets can work, and they have worked in the past. But the good Shell Smash sets beat Prankster by hitting the common Prankster users super-effectively (like SL's wack PH Xerneas set) or already have big offensive presence before setting up (like my sportcaster special's Groudon set).

Darmanitan-Zen Mode has been something I have truly tested, and proved it isn't a gimmick, and that is because it is simply that good. it doesn't fear hazards with Heavy Duty Boots, doesn't fear burns from Imposter, and can legit threaten Steels with STAB. I don't think this Pokemon, or the sets of Fur Coat, or Ice Scales are gimmicks. At the very least, it serves as a good Imposterproof for the cover legends, especially if you are using Body Press / Close Combat, Play Rough, Sunsteel Strike, etc. as it resists their STABs and can force them out, while Toxapex has to fear the more common Bolt Beak, and doesn't have anything to scare them with for actual damage.

It is much easier to accept criticism as fair and constructive, when I know people acknowledge the posts I made, which have been good. It doesn't seem accurate, and that's why I said it was an exaggeration, for seeing someone above say that my posts were not good, as if nothing was ever helpful.

Darmanitan-Z might have been niche last gen, but it was never a gimmick, and this generation it has only improved. I deserve credit for promoting legitimate sets. Not everything is a gimmick.

No one said Darmanitan-Zen was bad (this gen, at least). In fact, it just so happens to be good because of the circumstances of being a Steel, Fairy, Fighting, and Fire resist. But claiming the entire mon was your idea and demanding credit from the community just because you were arguing for it previously (when it was bad) when the odds happened to roll in its favor comes off as very egotistical.
btw no one said darmanitan was a gimmick

I also do accept criticism from others, like the feedback on my gimmicky Prankster Zekrom. Yes, dragons can switch in if I lack Dragon Darts over Fishous Rend, and yes Dazzling, and Priority -Ate Extreme Speeds do a number on it, and I owned that in my replies to it. See here:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3656408/page-5#post-8318915

Here when I slightly defend it, I still own it's failures, even ones not directly asked about, like -Ate Speed:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3656408/page-5#post-8319105

You're covering the wrong bases - Dazzling and -atespeed are not that common, and aren't the usual checks to this kind of set. The main problem you'll have is Imposter and (wow) Prankster Haze. You incorrectly postulated that you could hit them on the switch when the more likely scenario is that you Belly Drum as the opponent pivots into Prankster Haze to remove your boosts.

my posts are rarely short

no one said they weren't

I always try to show damage calculations, and/or replays, I also sometimes throw in teammates so people know what either checks it for Imposterproofing, or what works as a general ally (like slow pivoting).

this isn't saying much, many people mention what the mon checks, some have replays, and everyone should mention an imposterproof

I have legit tried to show, rather than just tell

this isnt an english class why dont you just tell people
(giving evidence is not showing)

Also, in spite of people's bias against me, I have been supportive of their sets:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3656408/page-3#post-8303345

this reminds me of ap stats where we have a peer graded quiz and my table partner doesnt know jack and writes whatever number comes to his mind and then he shows me the 100% i got and says "buddy homie my man" and winks at me while i look at the shit thats scrawled on the page. i look him in the eye and draw a 0 enough to take up the whole page just to assert my dominance.

shoutouts

the words "literally" and "legit"
heavyweapons mann for informative one-liners. very cool!

 

[MAMP]

I'd like to talk about Shedinja.

I'll cut to the chase: Shedinja is broken and should be removed from the metagame. The combination of Heavy-Duty Boots and the removal or weakening of much of the counterplay to Shedinja that existed in previous generations has pushed it way over the top, making it unreasonable to deal with both in battle and in the teambuilder. Shedinja was formerly a very high-risk/high-reward Pokemon: being unable to deal with it by keeping up hazards or by threatening to trap it with Mold Breaker Pursuit removes much of the risk, as Shedinja now requires far less team support and does not punish the user as hard for messing up. Whenever I face a good Shedinja team I feel as though I'm at a disadvantage from team preview, unless I have something like Sand Stream (which is mediocre besides killing Shed) or I have a way to kill Shedinja on nearly every Pokemon on my team. For the most part this is what people are resorting to on the high ladder: it's common to run up against teams that have 5 or 6 Pokemon that threaten Shedinja, as running a reliable hazards setter no longer cuts it and Pursuit is no longer available. This is obviously unreasonable and not conducive to a healthy metagame.

Before anyone tries it, banning Heavy-Duty Boots instead is not a good option. For one thing, the boots are a great addition to the metagame otherwise, bolstering the viability of hazards-weak defensive Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Darmanitan-Zen, and Reshiram. Furthermore, it's unclear that Shedinja would be balanced even without the boots: many believed that it was too good last generation, and for the most part it's stronger now even when Heavy-Duty Boots are not taken into account.

Every competent player I've spoken to is in agreement that Shedinja is enough of an issue to justify a quickban. I think that action should be taken on it ASAP.

 

[avyrie]

Adding to MAMP’s post, I’d like to point out that one of the most straightforward reasons people use Shedinja, is its ability to easily improof both defensive and offensive Pokemon that don’t have Mold Breaker, Will-o-Wisp, moldy moves etc. This allows Shedinja users to go near all-out attacking with their breakers/sweepers, without thinking of specific imposter proofers, like having a Volt Absorb Corviknight for Zekrom, or having to adjust their coverage so that other Pokemon can improof it.

Adding to that, I’ve observed that there has been much less moldy moves going around. I don’t exactly know the reason, but I guess that SSS is replaced by Double Hax Bash, no psychic spammers and psychic is a bad coverage type, and less special wallbreakers in this gen, which the remaining can’t fit a Moongeist Beam in their slots. This makes the ‘high-risk’ in gen7 even less. Last gen nearly every mon can run a moldy move and surprise kill my Shedinja. For defensive shenanigans that can kill Shed, most of them can be checked by a Magic Bounce user.

Last gen, having a Magic Bounce user and an Imposter are near essentials for a Shed team. While I think MBounce is still essential, imposters should be already less needed. With the less risk involved in Shed, opponents are even more incentivised to use their Shed counter move ASAP. This way it would be easier for the Shed side to bait out what the opponent has for Shed, without having to use Imposter to ‘peek’ their sets.

Also, as Shed players are preferring boots to pads now, the classic Endeavor Espeed set has become less common, replaced with the newly buffed Teleport and Pain Split, which avoids contact with Helmet, Spiky Shield etc. It also perks to pressure Magic Bounce Ghosts (I use the Spirit Shackle set aforementioned), which were one of the best checks to Shed in Gen 7. This makes Shedinja even more harder to punish by the would-be checks/counters.

I don’t know why, but overall I’ve seen less Sheds in the ladder now than in Gen 7. Due to people seeing less Sheds, they (and me) are actually preparing less for Shed when building teams. When I bring Shed out they usually realize they’ve got nothing to deal with it already. This makes Shed extremely broken rn but when it becomes more popular, people will adapt to it and bring more answers. I’ll suggest it getting suspected not quickbanned, and only after it becomes more popular.

Ok ted talk done

 

[lepton]

you can tell which team i built because there is a seismitoad in it

I completely agree with a qb of shed. right now it feels like there is almost no reason not to run a shed on your team, because bouncing is already good in this meta. having a blanket impoof to pretty much anything is unhealthy and reduces the amount of creativity in the meta. when i play a team without shed i constantly feel like im at a disadvantage to those that do. if i have to dedicate 5/6 moveslots just to one threat i think that threat is overcentralizing.

boots are definitely not the problem, i think they have (outside of shed) allowed for more varied mons as now having a rocks weakness isnt as bad.

 

[MAMP]

Centiskorch-Gmax @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Filler

Here's a cool mon I've been using lately. Fur Coat Centiskorch is a pretty niche defensive Pokemon that is often outclassed by other defensive Fire-types, but its got enough going for it to give it a place on certain teams. It takes on most of the stuff that defensive Fire-types usually beat (Zacian-C, Melmetal, Zamazenta, Kyurem-B) while having a surprising amount of offensive presence and not being weak to Ground. Centiskorch's V-Create is pretty threatening and scares out a lot of Magic Bouncers, making it good at getting hazards up. Its strong, slow U-turn is also really great for keeping up pressure and allowing it to wear down switchins. Gigantamax is funny but situational tech: Gigantamaxing gives you access to G-Max Centiferno, which traps and damages the opponent, allowing Centiskorch to kill Shedinja. It's pretty comparable to Golisopod as they cover similar stuff defensively and like to U-turn around, but Centiskorch has better special bulk, is more threatening offensively and doesn't get rinsed by Bolt Beak, in exchange for having a faster U-turn, less physical bulk, and lacking Golisopod's Water and Ground resists.

 

[Ren]

I'd like to talk about Shedinja.

View attachment 214682

I'll cut to the chase: Shedinja is broken and should be removed from the metagame. The combination of Heavy-Duty Boots and the removal or weakening of much of the counterplay to Shedinja that existed in previous generations has pushed it way over the top, making it unreasonable to deal with both in battle and in the teambuilder. Shedinja was formerly a very high-risk/high-reward Pokemon: being unable to deal with it by keeping up hazards or by threatening to trap it with Mold Breaker Pursuit removes much of the risk, as Shedinja now requires far less team support and does not punish the user as hard for messing up. Whenever I face a good Shedinja team I feel as though I'm at a disadvantage from team preview, unless I have something like Sand Stream (which is mediocre besides killing Shed) or I have a way to kill Shedinja on nearly every Pokemon on my team. For the most part this is what people are resorting to on the high ladder: it's common to run up against teams that have 5 or 6 Pokemon that threaten Shedinja, as running a reliable hazards setter no longer cuts it and Pursuit is no longer available. This is obviously unreasonable and not conducive to a healthy metagame.

Before anyone tries it, banning Heavy-Duty Boots instead is not a good option. For one thing, the boots are a great addition to the metagame otherwise, bolstering the viability of hazards-weak defensive Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Darmanitan-Zen, and Reshiram. Furthermore, it's unclear that Shedinja would be balanced even without the boots: many believed that it was too good last generation, and for the most part it's stronger now even when Heavy-Duty Boots are not taken into account.

Every competent player I've spoken to is in agreement that Shedinja is enough of an issue to justify a quickban. I think that action should be taken on it ASAP.

Adding to MAMP’s post, I’d like to point out that one of the most straightforward reasons people use Shedinja, is its ability to easily improof both defensive and offensive Pokemon that don’t have Mold Breaker, Will-o-Wisp, moldy moves etc. This allows Shedinja users to go near all-out attacking with their breakers/sweepers, without thinking of specific imposter proofers, like having a Volt Absorb Corviknight for Zekrom, or having to adjust their coverage so that other Pokemon can improof it.

Adding to that, I’ve observed that there has been much less moldy moves going around. I don’t exactly know the reason, but I guess that SSS is replaced by Double Hax Bash, no psychic spammers and psychic is a bad coverage type, and less special wallbreakers in this gen, which the remaining can’t fit a Moongeist Beam in their slots. This makes the ‘high-risk’ in gen7 even less. Last gen nearly every mon can run a moldy move and surprise kill my Shedinja. For defensive shenanigans that can kill Shed, most of them can be checked by a Magic Bounce user.

Last gen, having a Magic Bounce user and an Imposter are near essentials for a Shed team. While I think MBounce is still essential, imposters should be already less needed. With the less risk involved in Shed, opponents are even more incentivised to use their Shed counter move ASAP. This way it would be easier for the Shed side to bait out what the opponent has for Shed, without having to use Imposter to ‘peek’ their sets.

Also, as Shed players are preferring boots to pads now, the classic Endeavor Espeed set has become less common, replaced with the newly buffed Teleport and Pain Split, which avoids contact with Helmet, Spiky Shield etc. It also perks to pressure Magic Bounce Ghosts (I use the Spirit Shackle set aforementioned), which were one of the best checks to Shed in Gen 7. This makes Shedinja even more harder to punish by the would-be checks/counters.

I don’t know why, but overall I’ve seen less Sheds in the ladder now than in Gen 7. Due to people seeing less Sheds, they (and me) are actually preparing less for Shed when building teams. When I bring Shed out they usually realize they’ve got nothing to deal with it already. This makes Shed extremely broken rn but when it becomes more popular, people will adapt to it and bring more answers. I’ll suggest it getting suspected not quickbanned, and only after it becomes more popular.

Ok ted talk done

you can tell which team i built because there is a seismitoad in it

I completely agree with a qb of shed. right now it feels like there is almost no reason not to run a shed on your team, because bouncing is already good in this meta. having a blanket impoof to pretty much anything is unhealthy and reduces the amount of creativity in the meta. when i play a team without shed i constantly feel like im at a disadvantage to those that do. if i have to dedicate 5/6 moveslots just to one threat i think that threat is overcentralizing.

boots are definitely not the problem, i think they have (outside of shed) allowed for more varied mons as now having a rocks weakness isnt as bad.

These posts do a fantastic job of outlining the problems with Shed in the meta rn so I won't be adding onto them but can we get some degree of direction in here about what quickbans/suspects you guys are considering? BH open is in 2 weeks (3 including signups) so if you all wanna do something about Shed which you guys def should now is the time. I personally would want some time before the open to build but the lack of knowing what's going on really doesn't help that because I don't know what I'll be building for. I dont mean to bitch and you guys have been doing a fair job about transparency but like this is very pressing. Thanks

E4 Flint Funbot28 a loser Willdbeast

e: before some newton quotes my post and goes over why its less broken in gen 8 boots pads and goggles are all viable items and there's less ghosts and no suit so like

 

[Rumors]

Loss of Giratina, Gengar, and Moldy Pursuit, along with some other more niche options, really does sting when it comes to Shedinja. Still, I'd be a little hesitant to go after it though less because of any gameplay and more because of general mindset of the population. Has it changed enough since the failed Shedinja suspect for a quick ban a mere 1-2 months later to go through? Or are people just gonna go "lol why r we doin Shed again rofl no ban plz"?

I mean, I'm not opposed to Shedinja getting a looksie this time around since a number of the tools I argued about last gen are just... gone while Shed has picked up more options. I'm just more concerned with people having actually shifted to the Gen 8 Shed mindset.



Personally, I'd say Bolt Beak and Fiscious Rend really need to get smacked out of the meta. I mean, they're effectively 170 BP attacks with 16 PP and 100 Acc with a marginal downside that only really comes up against priority abusers. Yeah, you could outspeed and cut the power and half, but nobody in their right mind is going to be using those moves when they're going to get outsped unless they don't have any better option(s). It's spammable, synergizes super well with speed boosting (Shift Gear, Shell Smash, Choice Scarf, and plenty of more niche options), works for breaking and sweeping, and is incredibly difficult to stall out. They're also about as strong as -ate STAB Boomburst at base power. Add STAB to these moves and they hit something like BP 255. Even unstabbed though 170 BP is going to outdamage most STAB moves. Add abilities and items and nope you're dead. Oh, and they give great coverage with just the two alone.

Oh, and did I mention that, with a little finangling with Dynamax, they can give themselves Terrain/Weather boosts? It's a bit fiddly cause the three turn deal, but still worth noting since any user can pull a terrain or weather boost on demand without warning which can do junk like bypass Unaware and Spectral/Haze spammers.

Do they have checks? Yeah, kinda. Fur Coat helps and so do resists, but they still take annoying amounts of damage from breaker or sweeper sets. Bolt Beak has Ground immunities, but those can be Fished unless they have an immune ability. Speaking of, most immune abilities can be Mold Broken, if desired, and the Ground-types can usually be bopped hard with a Grass or Ice move if really desired. Shedinja stops em, unless Moldy again, and a Sash might revenge KO. I suppose you could Trick Room them, but that's a really niche strat. Paralysis helps, but won't work on the Electric-types and the Paralysis nerf last gen really works in favor for the set-up users.

Compare to V-Create (which might be overbearing this gen too anyway since Giratina, Zygarde, Primal Ogre, and many other fat resists are all gone), which does have more power at 180, sure. But it has half the PP, only 95 acc for random hax misses, and its stat drop drawback make it extremely difficult to sweep with and/or stay in and spam safely which pretty much limits it most reliable uses to wall breakers.

So yeah, I'd say please do Bolt Rend first. Having one, ideally more, resist/immunes on your team is practically mandatory or you're going to get ducked over by a good Bolt Rend user or a spam of haphazard ones. Throw V-Create in there too if you guys really want, I don't care since Bolt Rend is pretty broken.