BH Balanced Hackmons

Fur Coat and Eviolite do not boost Body Press. It's the same way as when you're using Foul Play, the opponent having Huge Power (which ostensibly raises their attack stat even higher) doesn't result in extra damage, but if you have that ability, it does. Stat stages are still drawn from defense, but if you want to get a boost from the ability or item slots, they need to boost attack even when the move you're using is Body Press.
Is the sim running based on this information? Because at the moment, it really seems like Body Press is being boosted by Fur Coat. Its definitely boosted by defensive boosts, but that makes more sense.

I just ran some quick tests on PS and it looks like Fur Coat is boosting Body Press. Check out the replay below. All Ferrothorns are 252 HP / 252+ Def with Flash Fire.
  • The first Zama I send out is 252+ Def with Fur Coat and 0 Atk EVs.
  • The second Zama is 252+ Def with Fluffy and 0 Atk EVs and it only does 49% (while the damage calc is showing 44.3% as the max roll for this because it doesn't consider the +Def nature).
  • The third Zama is +Def with Fur Coat and 252 Atk EVs. This damage looks to fall into the 88.6 - 104.5% range, same as the first Zama without Atk EVs.
  • The fourth Zama is 252+ Def with Comatose and 252 Atk EVs. This Zama appears to have the same damage as the Fluffy one without Atk EVs.
  • Lastly, I have Hakamo-o with 252+ Def with Fur Coat, Eviolite, and 252 Atk EVs. Hakamo-o cleanly OKHOs the first Ferrothorn it sees, but after its Eviolite is knocked off, he only does 83% damage (which isn't a possible roll if Eviolite didn't matter since the first attack was a OHKO).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1024482911
 
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Fur Coat and Eviolite do not boost Body Press. It's the same way as when you're using Foul Play, the opponent having Huge Power (which ostensibly raises their attack stat even higher) doesn't result in extra damage, but if you have that ability, it does. Stat stages are still drawn from defense, but if you want to get a boost from the ability or item slots, they need to boost attack even when the move you're using is Body Press.
I based it off experience, not theorymonning. I don’t think I would have used the set if it didn’t work, and I literally discussed it earlier.

Nevertheless, I appreciate your post, if they decide to change it based on if a mechanic is meant to be the way you describe then it makes sense.

Still, I think your argument doesn’t make sense, in both cases the user has to have the ability for it to work, so using Fur Coat matters on the user of it.
Can you all stop posting and suggesting terrible sets? Most of these look like sets people from ladder hell use and I don't know why people are still mentioning Darm-Z like its relevant when its leaving soon and wasn't very good in the first place.

Yeah mono-attack is just not good. Substitute is completely outclassed by Fishous Rend which actually gives you coverage against resists and immunities because guess what you don't have 170 offenses like MGar so stuff like prank darks just outstall you even if they can't touch you.

They can't touch you unless they have Magic Bounce where you hit them with SE Fishous or Comatose which is an unset.

What the heck is this. A wall without reliable recovery. A mon with mono-attack non-STAB non-utility. A mon that offers hardly any utility since no hazards no defog doesn't check anything relevant. A mon that is easily taken advantage of by any pivot mon. Congrats. This set is so bad.

Regarding the QBs would look forward to ISword, DIB, and maybe shed getting qbed, the 170 BP moves and shed could use a suspect.
:sm/shedinja:
Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Teleport
- Pain Split
- Stealth Rock
- Spirit Shackle / Baneful Bunker

The best Shed set in the meta IMO. Immunity to hazards lets you play much more aggressively. Spirit Shackle is useful for chipping ghosts and finishing off mons after a couple rounds of pain split. Main problem are the rock and ice dynamax moves but you can cover that with a Prim Sea mon and stall out dynamax using your own Max Guard. This mon is actually broken and really difficult to account for unless you run SunGeist Geyser or Knock Off/Trick on every offensive mon.
Actually Pain Split is incredibly bugged rn so run something else on it for now.

:sm/kyurem-white::sm/mewtwo::sm/eternatus:
Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch

Mewtwo / Eternatus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Bolt Strike / Filler (Blue Flare, Focus Blast, Seed Flare, Shadow Ball, Moonblast, Sludge Wave, Bug Buzz, Spikes, Agility?)

These two are really solid offensive mons for Shed teams as special isn't super accounted for in the meta rn. Kyu-W needs Naive to outrun base 90s and ESpeed helps against Dragapult and weakened Zacian-C until that leaves the meta. I haven't tried Mewtwo yet but it looks like its a really solid offensive threat too. Of course if your opponent has an Ice Scales mon then most of the time these mons don't do anything so...
The Twins:
Darm-Z was an ideal wall for the Crowned Dogs because it didn’t worry about SunSteel Strike, while it could handle Bolt Beak - unlike Toxapex, and threatened with Blue Flare. Heavy Duty Boots removed its hazard weakness, negating its SR issues and lack of Toxic Spikes immunity that gave Toxapex a niche over it.
Darm-Z-Galar was the Ice type that didn’t rely on priority, and had good dual STAB with Fire coverage for Steels, while Ice covered Dragon resists.
Both had a place in the meta due to their unique typing and well distributed stats. No one can deny that.

I recently discovered they are limited due to the way Zen Mode and other transformation abilities are impacted by Gen 8 mechanics, but before that implementation - I wouldn’t say they weren’t good. Fan of them or not, they were good at their job.

Doublade -

Pain Split, I find, with something as high Def but low HP bulk as Doublade, actually heals more than Recover due to the Max EVs nature of BH where people can max HP and Defenses, and oftentimes it can stay in longer. Many people use Strength Sap, which is also considered less reliable than Recover, bc it can force switches, similar to Pain Split. Pain Split keeps your foe on a timer if they lack Recovery, and grants you free turns and extra healing when they pack Recovery. Pain Split works on this set in my practice.

Having over 1300 Defense, without set-up, on Turn 1 more than makes up for a lack of STAB. I view Eviolite as giving it the 50% boost equivalent of STAB, and Fur Coat giving it the 100% boost of a Super Effective move. Partner that with base 150 Def, and that deals a lot of damage. AKA, with Eviolite factored in to make up for lack of STAB, it does more than Fur Coat Zamazenta-Crowned as it has 150 base Defense while Zamazenta-Crowned only has 145, as Zamazenta can’t use a +Def item. Plus Zamazenta likes +Spe nature’s for breaking Speed ties and new Speed tiers, while Doublade can afford to go +Def, widening the gap even more...

Further, it perfectly handles Imposter, while Zamazenta-Crowned fears STAB super effective Body Press.

So... literally, you think the strongest viable Body Press user in the game is not strong? That’s not logical. That’s just sad.

It even surpasses Imposter Pikachu since Pikachu doesn’t pack Eviolite and thus doesn’t get any boosts. Even if you face Eviolite Imposter, you can Pain Split them as they use Soak, and have effectively prevented them from healing much back all at once.
Also: Since crowned forms require the hold item now, so can’t even hold Black Belt to catch up...

Taken advantage of by pivot mons? I think the low Speed allows it to underspeed many pivot mons to trap the incoming Pokemon the pivot tries to switch into.

I see how it doesn’t seem appealing on paper, in practice it does quite well. Yes, Substitute and Magic Bounce block Soak, but that can be said for some utility moves like W-o-w or even Strength Sap, that you see on a regular wall set. You don’t want to drain your HP due to Magic Bounced burns, or heal your foe due to Strength Sap bounces.

The set is more like an offensive physical wall - it takes hits, dishes them out, and traps them to weaken foes by stats, and HP with Pain Split.

If you try it out, you will get a better sense of how it can be surprisingly more effective than it looks on the surface.

Shoutout to a loser for actually testing the mechanics before forming an opinion on my, or any future Fur Coat sets. :blobthumbsup:
 
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Fur Coat and Eviolite do not boost Body Press. It's the same way as when you're using Foul Play, the opponent having Huge Power (which ostensibly raises their attack stat even higher) doesn't result in extra damage, but if you have that ability, it does. Stat stages are still drawn from defense, but if you want to get a boost from the ability or item slots, they need to boost attack even when the move you're using is Body Press.
I may as well emphasize this post again--we have posts in the Research thread indicating that Choice Band and Hustle boost Body Press while Eviolite doesn't in the games:
I don't have time for a better empirical test, but it seems Eviolite does NOT boost Body Press's damage.

I caught an Onix and taught it Body Press. Then I had it use Body Press on two different wild Noctowl.

Both with Eviolite and without it, it did around 50% damage.
はじめまして!
ボディプレスの調査をしました。

Nice to meet you!
I researched Body Press.

■ Choice Band was working.
【Def】114 Duraludon Lv.50 Choice Band
【Pow】80 Body Press
【Def】78 Gastrodon
【Damage】67,68,69,71,74,75,76,79

■ Hustle was working.
【Def】114 Duraludon Lv.50 Hustle (Entrainment)
【Pow】80 Body Press
【Def】78 Gastrodon
【Damage】67,69,70,71,74,75,76,77,79

 
Can we just take a moment to talk about the fact that unreleased Pokémon are still labeled as banned and are thus unsearchable by pre-existing stats and such? I didn't even know Zekrom was a part of BH until it popped up on the ladder and started wreaking havoc on my team! I could've used the ol' reliable tanky black dragon if only it appeared near the very top when I sorted all the available mons by ATK in descending order.

Even with the Dexit in effect, it's still crowded. I hope that Smogon will update the search lists somehow, even if the stats and abilities need to be updated upon the official releases.
 
White (Kyurem-White) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Rash Nature
- Hurricane / Aeroblast
- Photon Geyser / Psystrike / Psychic
- Blizzard/Ice Beam
- Earth Power / Blue Flare

Last week I tried to use Dynamax for the + Speed boost, Psychic Terrain for anti-ate Speed, Prankster Topsy-Turvey (Speed boost), and Hail (in that order) so I can use Blizzard over Ice Beam on it for 100% accuracy with Sheer Force and Life Orb (post-Dynamax) for raw damage output, without the recoil. Hail also works well to discourage Shedinja while Dynamax is in effect, while Photon Geyser can work after Hail wears off.

1st Slot Options - I not only want the max base power damage while transformed for the Max Flying move, but so Sheer Force + Life Orb can boost it afterwards if it is your best type-option. Life Orb still works during Dynamax, although Sheer Force won’t because the effects are guaranteed.

2nd Slot Option - Photon Geyser can break Shedinja, while Psystrike benefits for mixed coverage, still, Psychic becomes a raw 117 base power from Sheer Force for overall damage output. Nevertheless, they all gain a pseudo STAB under Psychic Terrain, which really takes advantage of the Speed boost from the Max Flying move.

3rd Slot Option - Ice Beam is secondarily slashed, if you pack Blue Flare for power, which changes weather under Dynamax. I prefer Blizzard getting 4/5 Hail turns post Dynamax as very effective, and can break past many teams. Imposter with Eviolite is often still threatened due to the sheer power of Blizzard and it 2HKOed whether it be Eviolite or Scarf -
Timid Nature
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 196-231 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Rash Nature
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252- SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 239-282 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

By using a +SpA, -SpD nature, I can secure a 2HKO against Eviolite Imposter, and deal as much to Scarf Imposter as it deals back:

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252- SpD Wobbuffet: 359-422 (61.4 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sheer Force Wobbuffet Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252- SpD Kyurem-White: 276-325 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Overall, boosting all of its 3 other moves, while being able to call Hail for chip damage, without being locked into a move, blocking priority, and outspeeding the entire metagame (if Timid), or at least a majority of it (if Rash), really takes advantage of Dynamax.

4th Slot options: Earth Power is for reliability, while Blue Flare is for pure damage output and to KO the Steels that can threaten it back
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 320-377 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash: 252-299 (123.5 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 390-460 (100.5 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem-White Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 460-543 (118.5 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Blue Flare under Dynamax, also calls the Sun, so you need to be careful not to remove Hail, unless you find that the extra power is worth it. At which point, Ice Beam might be the preferred choice for your STAB.

Vs Refrigerate;

Bear in mind that if you opt for Refrigerate, you cannot use your Ice moves under Dynamax, as they originally counted as normal (similar to a Z-move), so if you need to survive a hit and Dynamax for taking the damage, you lack STAB completely. Also an opponent can use Dazzling to block your Extreme Speed, while with +1 Speed and Psychic Terrain, you block Extreme Speed while outspeeding the foe anyways. Lastly, Choice items are nullified during Dynamax, while Life Orb prevails. The Refridgerate set is walled, and thus checked, by Shedinja completely.

100% That Replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1025063372

Edit: In Dynamax, Life Orb only shows as dealing 5% recoil (since HP is doubled), which means the original form base HP is still 10% lower after it wears off.
 
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Simple ability should be banned due to no retreat and clangorous soul. Just think about a zamazenta with these 2 moves, simple ability, baton pass and some heal.
How much does Simple really buff No Retreat, though? Even on low ladder, I've seen No Retreat get Spectral Thiefed all the time, and I believe I've seen it get Topsy-Turvyed once.
 
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Zacian-Crowned (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover
- Toxic

Zamazenta-Crowned (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Sunsteel Strike
- Roost

Zamazenta (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spectral Thief
- Spiky Shield

Zacian-Crowned (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Substitute
- Copycat
- Destiny Bond

Zamazenta-Crowned (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spectral Thief
- Soft-Boiled

Zacian-Crowned (F) @ Steel Memory
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Rapid Spin
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic
With all the recent changes to this meta this team is no longer functional, but I wanted to share it here anyway because it was a lot of fun to use. I typically don't use species spam as a strategy but it was almost too good not to use at the beginning of this meta since Zacian and Zamazenta were just that good. This team isn't quite what you'd expect from team preview, but it was very effective on the ladder, helping me get two alts into the top 10 without much trouble. It took a slight anti-meta approach with some different sets like Corrosion and Prankster Copycat Zacian-Crowned.

Basically I would lead with Corrosion Zacian and try to poison their lead either with Baneful Bunker or Toxic. Lum Berry helped me to stay in on an imposing Imposter lead or leads like Nuzzle Aegislash and poison them. Otherwise, I would lead with Poison Heal Zama to make sure my orb was activated. After this, it was basically dancing around any opposing threats with the combination of Flash Fire and Levitate Zamazenta and the surprising bulk and longevity of PH Zama. With multiple Will-o-Wisp setters and two Toxic users, I could pretty much status whoever came my way to rack up useful chip damage. I added extra chip with Rocky Helmet and Spiky Shield. I did run into a lot of teams with Aromatherapy, but these could still be stalled out of PP or I could just take out the healer.

Two of my favorite sets were the Corrosion and Prankster Zacians. I already discussed Corrosion, but Substitute and Prankster combined with Double Iron Bash and Copycat led to some fun sequences (for me, but not the opponent). Copycat made up for Double Iron Bash's limited PP and also gave me a +1 priority move with a 49% to flinch the opponent. This helped me outpace and hax-to-death opposing Prankster walls trying to heal on me. This mon had a lot of role compression, helping me beat Dragapult with Substitute, flinch hax, steal recovery moves or hazards from opponents, and take out threats with Destiny Bond in a pinch.

I didn't have many replays with this team, but there are a few here that showcase some of what the team could do.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1016779168
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1017441622
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1014704470

I already miss the meta that allowed the dogs to be completely free, but I also know that its better that they are back, if you will, on their chain. Zacian still seems to be a prominent threat with its high speed and constant Attack boost but it is certainly less of a pain to deal with. One postive from this now outdated team is you can still (and should) use PH Zamazenta. It is really good and has nice bulk and utility. You could probably swap some of the moves out for things like Body Press or Knock Off, depending on what your team needs.

I'm looking forward to seeing what other mons come into the picture now that the dust is settling on the recent changes. Things like Reshiram, Kyurem, and Zekrom are already enjoying the meta even more. Now if we can just iron out some of the last wrinkles in this new meta, like Body Press seeming to be bugged, BH will have a chance to balance itself and be more fun.
 
some of my favorite defensive sets:


Snorlax @ Safety Goggles/shed shell
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Metal Burst
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy/U-turn/whatever

The prankster mon I’ve been using. Walls like every special attacker in the tier and some of the physical ones. Metal burst with high HP kills things.


Mandibuzz (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Nuzzle
- Slack Off

Switches in on dragapult and uses free turn to use powerful support moves. bouncing is really good and this is a solid option


Seismitoad @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog/whatever
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn
- Roost

walls like every Common physical attacker in the tier. Water ground is an amazing typing for the meta because no one is running grass moves, steel attackers are everywhere sois zekrom, which this shuts down. Use on balance to check things and pivot into breakers.
 

Funbot28

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Ok with the Zamazenta and Zacian (Crowned form) changes I feel the metagame has shocken up quite a bit since those two mons were undeniably the best threats in the metagame without the item / ability restriction. While I still think they will have their niches as just powerful defensive / offensive threats especially with their already amazing base stats and useful natural abilities, I feel this change opens the door for some other threats to shine.


Dragapult @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Shift Gear
- Bolt Beak / Substitute
- Entrainment

One of the best threats hands down right now. Magic Bounce / Ghost Memory Zamazenta-C used to be able to handle Normalize shenanigans from this mon but now with the form change implemented there are a select few of viable ways to really counteract Dragapult from supressing and sweeping the opposing team . I really been liking Bolt Beak for coverage since it can target any Ghost resist / immune for immense amount of damage and also has added benefit in hitting Magic Bounce Corviknight and Mandibuzz hard after Entrainment is redirected. I definitely can see this monster being one of the biggest threats in the teambuilding stage especially with mons in Zacian-C dropping in usage, however a weakness to -atespeed can at least keep it somewhat in check thankfully.


Zamazenta @ Leftovers / Ghost Memory
Ability: Magic Bounce / Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Cotton Guard
- Spectral Thief / Multi-Attack
- Recover

Basically a knock off version of it's previous crowned form sets, I can still see this set put in some work despite the worse defenses and loss of Steel-typing. This mon is usually my primary way of dealing with opposing Dragapult and can also provide some utility in checking dangerous threats such as Zekrom and Kyurem-B with the FC set. It sucks cause losing it's Crowned form really did impact the meta a lot since that version of this set idea really handled a lot of threats much better but hey at least this can still somewhat work.


Zacian @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Coil
- Will-O-Wisp / Pyro Ball / Bolt Beak
- Earthquake

Basically the idea of using PH Coil Xern the previous gen and apply it to a way more physically powerful and faster threat. The loss of Tarrows is huge as you can't just hit the entire metagame with two coverage slots anymore but it can at least make things easier when it comes to improofing this set (as imp can still potentially rkill if Zacian is heavily weakened). FF Corvikinght can really be a pain but can be dealt with with coverage like Bolt Beak.

I am gonna play the metagame a bit more to give some opinions on some other mons I think can perform well but ye these are my thoughts rn, not sure how I feel about more questionable abilities such as Intrepid Sword and stuff like Fishious Rend yet.
 
BH Secret Santa
Copied from last year
Last year's went pretty well so here it is again! Hopefully this will also promote metagame exploration and growth.

The BH Secret Santa will work like standard Secret Santas, where you anonymously give and receive a gift. However, instead of gifts, you will request a BH team built around a certain Pokemon or core that you choose. If you are interested and would like to participate, PM me on Smogon (not on anything else such as Discord or PS) and describe what core you would like someone to build around for you. Once the signup deadline has been reached, I will PM you back describing the core someone else has requested that you'll need to build around. When you're finished, you will PM me back the team and I will send it to the receiver.
Rules

  • Requests must be sent to me via PM here on the Smogon Forums, I will also send you the request for you in the same PM, and you will send me your team also in the same PM.
  • Don't tell anyone what request you have received nor what you have given until the team submission deadline.
  • You may send or edit your request at any time, until request signups are over. Once the deadline is reached, you will no longer be able to edit it. However, please try to minimize the editing, as I may miss your edit and end up sending the old request.
  • DO NOT sign up if you cannot guarantee you can finish the team in time.
  • Please finish the team before the team submission deadline.
  • Submissions shouldn't be overly memey, and if you are submitting a core remember that a core is made up of 2-3 Pokemon. You can also request one specific Pokemon, or even ask for a specific playstyle. If you want, you can ask for an open team.
  • Don't be afraid to join in because you are uncertain of your teambuilding ability! If you want, I can try to help you (I'm not a particularly good teambuilder myself though)
Sign-ups and Request Deadline: December 15th, 11:59 PM, PST
Sign-ups are now closed!


Team Submission Deadline: December 24th, 9:00 PM, PST
 
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Presenting the great wannabe arceus

Big Drag (Silvally-Grass) @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Multi-Attack
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock

a very nice utility mon in the current metagame to add to your defensive core if it is vulnerable to weather or Ground moves. It does the following:
* severly hampers offensive sand/sun teams by changing their weather and also can switch into Resh and Zekrom, both common weather abusers' most common moves. Even Resh's specs Dynamax Cannon won't OHKO, letting it safely scout choice locked:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Reshiram Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Silvally-Grass: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
* Easily walls Zekrom (watch out for Dragon Darts), as it can outspeed Bolt Beak and limit it to 85 bp, and outheal even Poison Heal into Spiky Shield with Multi Attack (it does about 40%), though you may want to watch out for Baneful Bunker poison
* Is one of the few mons who can't be tricked or Knocked thanks to the memory
* can switch into normalize Dragapult and 2hKO it with Multi Attack while even a supereffective +2 Multiattack won't ohko (it does 95%)
* can lead against mold breaker Spore leads and set up its own hazards alongside them, Multi Attack also deals about 35% to Eternitus which can get you a leg up
* can switch into mons with fire/earth/electric coverage no problem, or check choice-locked mons locked into those moves

Cons:
* Multiattack is unstabbed which means that neutral hits won't do much
* Can easily be worn down because no leftovers, loses to most boosting PH users and sweepers; hates sandstorm, all status and all entry hazards
* requires magic bounce teammate to improof
* unable to hit sturdy shed
* Loses to offensive Rain teams as Fisheous from any mon is an easy 2hko
* loses to most steels


This mon isn't designed to work on its own but instead glue together a defensive core.

THis may be the gen where defensive grass types actually are good! Have suggestions for a better grass type in this slot? Let me know!
Replays: I keep forgetting to save the good ones!
 
Just a few sets I've been using that I like.

Trojan Horse (Zekrom) @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash

I like this set a lot, and I've been using it since very early on (carried over from Gen 7 with a couple changes). It's sort of imposter proof (whyyyyy doesn't Galvanize make no memory Multi Attack electric D:), but you have to be at 80% or more if they imposter you at +2 and win the speed tie or have a scarf. Aside from that, this thing is an amazing late game sweeper/wincon. Prankster Aegi has become a common answer to setup, but you can easily 2HKO with +2 Espeed>Espeed to beat Haze>Recover. Burns mean nothing when Boomburst can still destroy tons of mons at +2. Most non resists/AV mons get crushed by Boomburst. It's worked very well for me but I have to stress that it's important to keep it healthy for the late game. Sending it in too early and trying to sweep can screw you hard.

Firewall (Eternatus) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Lava Plume
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Poison Fang

Etern is insanely bulky with a vest and bold nature. It isn't too threatened by imposter Wob due to it's high HP and vest (doesn't beat them though), and it's insanely persistent with Regen. It can spread status with Plume and Nuzzle/Fang, or spin hazards away. I suggest having something with Heal Bell to prevent imposters from crippling you with Nuzzle if you run that, plus Bell is just a really good move right now. I do wish it could run ALL the listed moves but hey nothing is perfect. It's a very consistent pokemon and it's put in major work in a majority of games I've played with it.

Ransomware (Solgaleo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability/Tinted Lens/Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Photon Geyser
- Double Iron Bash
- Spectral Thief/V-Create/Shift Gear(?)
- Switcheroo

Solgaleo has an interesting combination of strong defensive typing, good bulk, and solid speed/attack for the tier. It's stabs are bad however, so Adapt or Lens can help it hit harder against some would be switchins. You can also run Intrepid Sword but eeehh it gets really susceptible to Spectral Thief. Unaware plus Thief for 3rd slot is kinda neat but inconsistent since Sol is bulky but not BULKY and still gets fried by unboosted Blue Flare or V Create. Switcheroo is really good when defensive and stall-esque pokemon are everywhere. Shift Gear is a gimmicky way to let Solgaleo sweep after a Switcheroo, but if you're a sucker for surprise like I am, you'll have fun with it. Others can do a similar thing with Quiver dance but again, it's a gimmicky thing. This set is not gonna be good once BH goes back to Crowned mon hell with the changes getting reverted, but it was fun while it lasted and perhaps if Zac gets banned it will be decent and have a niche.
The other sets on my team I'm not super confident in yet (though Regen Parting Shot Wish Seismitoad has worked way better than I ever expected). I'll share more as I test, or if something is so wild and out there that I just need to share it lol. BH is crazy and less legendaries means you have to get weird to find exactly what you're looking for. Also I'm happy we're getting Darm Z back
 
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Just a few sets I've been using that I like.

Trojan Horse (Zekrom) @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash

I like this set a lot, and I've been using it since very early on (carried over from Gen 7 with a couple changes). It's sort of imposter proof (whyyyyy doesn't Galvanize make no memory Multi Attack electric D:), but you have to be at 80% or more if they imposter you at +2 and win the speed tie or have a scarf. Aside from that, this thing is an amazing late game sweeper/wincon. Prankster Aegi has become a common answer to setup, but you can easily 2HKO with +2 Espeed>Espeed to beat Haze>Recover. Burns mean nothing when Boomburst can still destroy tons of mons at +2. Most non resists/AV mons get crushed by Boomburst. It's worked very well for me but I have to stress that it's important to keep it healthy for the late game. Sending it in too early and trying to sweep can screw you hard.

Firewall (Eternatus) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Lava Plume
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Poison Fang

Etern is insanely bulky with a vest and bold nature. It isn't too threatened by imposter Wob due to it's high HP and vest (doesn't beat them though), and it's insanely persistent with Regen. It can spread status with Plume and Nuzzle/Fang, or spin hazards away. I suggest having something with Heal Bell to prevent imposters from crippling you with Nuzzle if you run that, plus Bell is just a really good move right now. I do wish it could run ALL the listed moves but hey nothing is perfect. It's a very consistent pokemon and it's put in major work in a majority of games I've played with it.

Ransomware (Solgaleo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability/Tinted Lens/Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Photon Geyser
- Double Iron Bash
- Spectral Thief/V-Create/Shift Gear(?)
- Switcheroo

Solgaleo has an interesting combination of strong defensive typing, good bulk, and solid speed/attack for the tier. It's stabs are bad however, so Adapt or Lens can help it hit harder against some would be switchins. You can also run Intrepid Sword but eeehh it gets really susceptible to Spectral Thief. Unaware plus Thief for 3rd slot is kinda neat but inconsistent since Sol is bulky but not BULKY and still gets fried by unboosted Blue Flare or V Create. Switcheroo is really good when defensive and stall-esque pokemon are everywhere. Shift Gear is a gimmicky way to let Solgaleo sweep after a Switcheroo, but if you're a sucker for surprise like I am, you'll have fun with it. Others can do a similar thing with Quiver dance but again, it's a gimmicky thing. This set is not gonna be good once BH goes back to Crowned mon hell with the changes getting reverted, but it was fun while it lasted and perhaps if Zac gets banned it will be decent and have a niche.
The other sets on my team I'm not super confident in yet (though Regen Parting Shot Wish Seismitoad has worked way better than I ever expected). I'll share more as I test, or if something is so wild and out there that I just need to share it lol. BH is crazy and less legendaries means you have to get weird to find exactly what you're looking for. Also I'm happy we're getting Darm Z back
Me too! I know it’s all because 420LegitShucks did a great job researching the matter. You can view that here. I initially didn’t want to spoil the announcement but I feel like some people would want the context for the acknowledgement, in case The Immortal has wanted to be seen first.

Ultimately, I feel it will be they both will be the great check (offensively Galar), and counter (defensively Unova) to the doggos bc it can either KO, or single-handledly resist all of their STABs, while threatening with its own STAB.

I hope to put them to good use.

Lastly, I like your sets. For someone who recently joined us, I am glad you came up with helpful and very strong utility even against Imposter.

Externatus with RegenVest doesn’t just seem to work well, it makes very good sense, as the fall of Psychic attackers & attacks, weakening of Ground moves, and high Speed allow it to escape very well without coming in on a hit and being afraid of going last to tank 1 too many (like if the foe has a surprise coverage move).

For Solgaleo maybe a good set would be Prankster / Magic Bounce:
Spectral Thief, Roost, Anchor Shot, Entrainment / Poison Fang.

This allows you to Imposterproof your Zekrom, if it fell below 80% HP, as they Multi-Attack on your switch, which you resist. When they try and Boomburst, they get Entrained so you resist that too (and they lose STAB). Spectral Thief disarms their Shell Smash, and works off of Solgaleo’s workable Attack.

Otherwise I would consider for a Magic Bounce set - Poison Fang for accumulating damage while a foe are trapped. Roost keeps you safe, while Magic Bounce also blocks Hazards, Status attacks, etc. Magic Bounce still stops Entrainment.

This also works well if Imposter switches into it, (you can trap and wear down their PP until they struggle), and can play a major role on a team in general. Solgaleo doesn’t need to be offensive, it can take the offensive boosts away as a defensive check and then bring the power from Spectral Thief.

This also works well as a stop to Dragapult’s Normalize shenanigans. You Entrain first via Prankster as they try and Entrain, and if they try and set up you can Spectral for super effective damage. Since it is a Ghost, you cannot trap, so when they switch out you can Poison Fang their switch-in, only for them to have a 50% chance of being Toxic Poisoned. ;)

Once they see you have Spectral Thief, the will avoid sending in set uppers that are not the Normal-type, and if you have Magic Bounce they cannot try and use status moves or hazards. Be careful of Scald, though, still you handle most things while resisting SRocks, and being immune to Toxic Spikes.
 
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This also works well as a stop to Dragapult’s Normalize shenanigans
252 Atk Dragapult Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 254-302 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I wouldn't advise using a Psychic-type to check something with Ghost STAB. Prankster Entrainment or Magic Bounce coming from Solgaleo will not concern Dragapult whatsoever. In general, I've found that Prankster Entrainment is not effective at checking Dragapult and that Prankster status like Will-o-Wisp or Toxic are much more effective at crippling it in the long run.
Just a few sets I've been using that I like
Zekrom definitely has a lot of potential this gen. I've found that Runerigus can easily improof Multi-Attack sets as it is immune to imposter Zekrom's STABs without needing an ability (assuming imposter is not holding a memory).

As for the Solgaleo set, I think Adapt Scarf is the most effective one listed. It is neat because it can surprise outspeed Zacian-Crowned and Dragapult and 2HKO both of them with Double Iron Bash while potentially getting the flinch hax. However, it risks being OHKO'd by +1 V-create from Zacian-C if it doesn't get the flinch. You also can out speed and OHKO base Zacian and Zamazenta with super effective STAB, which is something.

For Tinted Lens, this is better suited on Necrozma Dusk-Mane since it has a higher Attack stat. The proposed set below would be more effective at taking out walls like Melmetal (a 3HKO with STABs) rather than revenge killing fast mons like Solgaleo. Tinted Lens on Scarf Solgaleo loses a lot of power that Adaptability gives it and no longer picks up the kills listed above unless you get really lucky with flinch hax.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- V-create
- Filler
I would not recommend running Unaware on Solgaleo for reasons you stated (roasted by Fire coverage) and I would doubly not recommend running an Unaware mon with a Scarf and no healing moves.

Other thoughts on the meta:
Mold Breaker seems like a great offensive ability right now. The prevalence of ability-reliant walls to stop current meta threats is something that can be taken advantage of. Notable abilities used on walls include Flash Fire, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Sturdy, Levitate, and more niche options like Volt/Water Absorb or Unaware. I've used and seen mons like Zekrom and Reshiram blow past would-be checks by ignoring their abilities. Its worth noting that offensive Mold Breakers are harder to improof without limiting their coverage, using Multi-Attack, or using potentially niche mons with type based immunities.

I also find that V-create, Bolt Beak, and Fishious Rend are very restricting on teambuilding. Such high-powered moves in a meta with limited walls almost forces you to have Fur Coat or Flash Fire on every team in hopes to check them. Its possible to check one or two of them but can be tricky to prep for all three of them.
 
I was already considering Runerigus as a physically bulky support mon but I somehow never even considered the fact that it hard walls imposters that come in on Zekrom. Thank you a loser. I was lurking a lot in Gen 7 but I want to actually contribute stuff this gen so it's nice to see I'm getting decent feedback, and I appreciate all feedback in general.
 
252 Atk Dragapult Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 254-302 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I wouldn't advise using a Psychic-type to check something with Ghost STAB. Prankster Entrainment or Magic Bounce coming from Solgaleo will not concern Dragapult whatsoever. In general, I've found that Prankster Entrainment is not effective at checking Dragapult and that Prankster status like Will-o-Wisp or Toxic are much more effective at crippling it in the long run.

Zekrom definitely has a lot of potential this gen. I've found that Runerigus can easily improof Multi-Attack sets as it is immune to imposter Zekrom's STABs without needing an ability (assuming imposter is not holding a memory).

As for the Solgaleo set, I think Adapt Scarf is the most effective one listed. It is neat because it can surprise outspeed Zacian-Crowned and Dragapult and 2HKO both of them with Double Iron Bash while potentially getting the flinch hax. However, it risks being OHKO'd by +1 V-create from Zacian-C if it doesn't get the flinch. You also can out speed and OHKO base Zacian and Zamazenta with super effective STAB, which is something.

For Tinted Lens, this is better suited on Necrozma Dusk-Mane since it has a higher Attack stat. The proposed set below would be more effective at taking out walls like Melmetal (a 3HKO with STABs) rather than revenge killing fast mons like Solgaleo. Tinted Lens on Scarf Solgaleo loses a lot of power that Adaptability gives it and no longer picks up the kills listed above unless you get really lucky with flinch hax.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- V-create
- Filler
I would not recommend running Unaware on Solgaleo for reasons you stated (roasted by Fire coverage) and I would doubly not recommend running an Unaware mon with a Scarf and no healing moves.

Other thoughts on the meta:
Mold Breaker seems like a great offensive ability right now. The prevalence of ability-reliant walls to stop current meta threats is something that can be taken advantage of. Notable abilities used on walls include Flash Fire, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Sturdy, Levitate, and more niche options like Volt/Water Absorb or Unaware. I've used and seen mons like Zekrom and Reshiram blow past would-be checks by ignoring their abilities. Its worth noting that offensive Mold Breakers are harder to improof without limiting their coverage, using Multi-Attack, or using potentially niche mons with type based immunities.

I also find that V-create, Bolt Beak, and Fishious Rend are very restricting on teambuilding. Such high-powered moves in a meta with limited walls almost forces you to have Fur Coat or Flash Fire on every team in hopes to check them. Its possible to check one or two of them but can be tricky to prep for all three of them.
That’s a good point. I thought of what utility it brought to most balanced teams overall, and thought of its ability to outspeed Entrainment as a last resort surprise.

The Calcs prove otherwise, as your point is right; but I could still see it as a check for Zekrom with its Entrainment Prankster set, while being able to stop certain Pokemon like Poison Healers, Regenerators, etc. that heavily rely on their ability.

I like you’re thinking though, CBand Tinted Lens is a safe bet, and for filler I would suggest a Flying move, so if you ever decide to Dynamax, you can get +1 Speed, which will help it alongside the Psychic Terrain, and Sunny weather it would have if it uses all 3 turns.

Once those Dynamax turns wear off, it goes back to Choice Band on top of the weather and Terrain Boosts for some serious sweeping.
 
I've been playing a lot of SwSh BH over the last couple weeks and I think it's a really fun, interesting metagame. Here's some thoughts and observations on the current state of the meta.

The reduced range of viable offensive threats is overall a positive change. In previous generations, there were so many powerful threats which required very specific defensive counterplay that the range of viable defensive cores was pretty limited. The defining trait of effective BH teams was role compression; there was so much to prepare for that you needed every single one of your Pokemon to do as much as possible, which often made it difficult to justify running more niche Pokemon and kinda homogenised the metagame at higher levels. A lot of stuff that got banned might not have been so problematic if there wasn't so much other stuff to deal with. For instance Psychic Surge was overbearing, but that was in large part because it was so hard to fit dedicated counterplay to it onto teams. Games last gen frequently felt like they were decided at team preview by whoever had something that their opponent couldn't deal with, but in SwSh I feel like this isn't the case. This tier is a lot less volatile overall, and teambuilding feels a lot less restricted. Stuff that would've been really busted last gen, like Bolt Beak or Double Iron Bash, feels far more reasonable because it's easier to justify running niche defensive stuff to deal with it.

1576576623519.png

The only thing in the meta right now that feels clearly unhealthy to me is Shedinja. Heavy-Duty Boots make Shed so hard to pressure and massively loosen the teambuilding restraints that it used to impose. Additionally, lots of the counterplay to it that existed in previous generations is more difficult to fit onto teams. There are fewer good, splashable Ghost-types in this generation, making it harder to find room for an Endeavor switch-in. Pursuit doesn't exist anymore, Sunsteel is largely outclassed by DiB besides hitting Shed and Photon Geyser and Moongeist Beam are worse (their STAB abusers are weaker/less common and they aren't really relevant coverage), and Sand Stream sucks because there's no Shore Up, only 1 decent Rock-type, and its outclassed by Ice Scales anyway. Shed teams at the moment are still very unoptimised, but Shed already places a tremendous amount of pressure on teambuilding. I would like to see it quickbanned if possible, or if not I would like to see it as the first suspect of the new metagame.

Other than that, stuff to consider suspecting in future is Bolt Beak, Double Iron Bash, Shell Smash, and maybe Fishious Rend, but currently I think all of these are fairly manageable. The metagame is still very much in its early stages, and its very possible that my views on this will change as the meta develops.

Dynamaxing is weird and hard to get used to. It's been quickly proven to be pretty broken in most other tiers but it's not so obviously powerful in BH. BH teams already run good anti-setup measures, making the spiraling Dynamax setup sweepers far more manageable. Additionally, stuff in BH is far bulkier than in other tiers and BH mons are already usually running very high BP moves, so Max Moves aren't as dangerous for allowing Pokemon to get through walls they otherwise wouldn't. It's also a really effective defensive measure: I've stopped so many dangerous sweepers and wallbreakers by Dynamaxing something like Melmetal or Rhydon, eating the hit and KOing them in return. One of the biggest impacts of Dynamax is that it makes Imposter-proofing a lot more difficult, but that's overall balanced out by Imposter being worse this gen anyway. Dynamax really threw me off at first, but once I got used to it I've come to the conclusion that it's a healthy addition to the metagame. BH has the defensive tools to handle it and it adds a really interesting dynamic to the tier. The fact that some of the best Pokemon in the metagame can't Dynamax and that BH has no good abusers of the best Dynamax types (Fighting, Poison, Flying) definitely helps.

Imposter being frailer overall has a lot of subtle little impacts on the metagame. It means that you can get away with having your defensive mons not be improofed so well, because Imposter is rarer, runs Scarf a lot more often, and is easier to pressure regardless: letting it heal freely is less of a big deal when it struggles to switch into a lot of wallbreakers without getting 2HKOd. I think a lot of people, myself including, are kinda still building around Imposter as though it's Gen 7. It'll take some time for the meta to truly adapt to a weakened Imposter; this might secretly be one of the most impactful changes from the last generation.

It's been weird getting used to the way that the relative power level of different types is so much different in this gen than the last. Ice was one of the best and most common coverage types last gen, but it's pretty useless now. Ground, a pretty decent typing last gen, is incredible now both offensively and defensively. I definitely misevaluated a lot of Pokemon at first because I was judging their typings on the standards of the previous generation, particularly Zacian and Golisopod.

Knock Off is really good as a general utility move. Poison Heal is less common, Z-Crystals/Mega Stones/Red Orb don't exist, and there aren't a lot of good dark resists. Knocking off Shedinja's boots make it way easier to deal with, and you can support your own Shedinja by removing opposing Rocky Helmets. The move provides a huge amount of utility and a lot of teams find it difficult to switch into. I've often been just slapping it on my defensive Pokemon when they have a filler slot available and it always puts in work.

Similarly, Spectral Thief is also great. Only really relevant normals are Snorlax and Type:Null and they're usually defensive, and Intrepid Sword/Dynamax means your opponent will often have incidental boosts to nab.

Intrepid Sword is very powerful, but it's far more balanced than I expected. It's very difficult to Imposter-proof, especially with Dynamax in the mix, and gets messed up by Prankster, Spectral Thief, and Unaware. I was concerned at first that this would be broken, but it's definitely not, although it's still probably the best ability for most physical attackers.

Lovely Kiss not existing is lowkey the most blessed thing about this gen, Safety Goggles being legitimate reliable counterplay to sleep is so good.

Thoughts on some individual mons:

1576576406744.png

Eternatus is very unexplored and has the potential to be one of the best mons in the tier, especially with Zacian-Crowned being nerfed. Its typing and stat spread is so good (literally bulkier than pex) that it can do almost anything, but so far I've mainly seen just defensive sets, Specs, and Sheer Force. I think there's a lot that can be done here and I'm keen to see what kinds of new sets people come up with for it.

1576576399223.png

Zacian (not crowned) is not as good as I expected. Fairy was an excellent typing last gen, both offensively and defensively, but that's not the case in SwSh. The tier is full of excellent Fairy resists, and I find that my teams have 2 or 3 without even really trying. Its weaknesses to Steel and Poison are both relevant, and its resistances are not as common as they used to be. It's still good of course, just not the metagame-shaping threat that I had imagined. The sets I've tried are Poison Heal, Choice Band Intrepid Sword, Pixilate, and some defensive sets, which all felt good but not outstanding.

1576576393438.png

Dragapult is super overrated. I was really worried about it at first, seeing that it was a super fast Ghost-type with Revelation Dance and Judgment gone and with very few Ghost resists in the metagame. I initially though of it as like Normgar from last gen but faster and with a smaller range of available counterplay. But I underestimated the impact of its poor offensive stats and lack of versatility: Normgar was so threatening because it also just threatened to 2HKO most of the meta and if you guessed the set wrong you might catch a Specs Adaptability Moongeist. Counters to it not only needed to not get shut down by Entrainment, but also had to have either really good special bulk or a ghost resist. Dragapult on the other hand just doesn't hit particularly hard, meaning the range of Magic Bouncers and Comatose mons that can switch into it is way broader. Even Prankster mons with decent physical bulk can stall it out, and offensive Multi Attack mons like Zekrom are reasonable counterplay to it. Its sets besides Normalise are pretty underwhelming too, again due to its low power. I've played around a bit with a Choice Band Intrepid Sword set and some Imposter-proof Shell Smash sets, but they seem middling at best.

1576576381381.png

Melmetal is deceptively good and is easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier. He's extremely versatile, obnoxiously bulky, and hits like a truck, making him a really solid glue mon for a lot of different teams. I've had success with Choice Band sets and a range of defensive sets, particularly Flash Fire and Ice Scales. I feel that this mon is very unexplored at the moment as well.
1576575657844.png

1576576375856.png

Mewtwo is another Pokemon that I expected to be better than it is, but its speed tier is a bit underwhelming, its poor physical bulk is crippling, and the meta is infested with Steel types and Ice Scales nonsense. I've tried/seen Specs Psychic Surge, Shell Smash sets, Sheer Force, and Poison Heal, and none of them feel that great to me. Maybe someone will figure out a good set for this at some point, but for now I'm not confident in it being more than a niche pick.

There are all kinds of interesting weird defensive Pokemon that would have never been viable last gen, but which find a place in the meta now due to the tier's lower overall power level and the restricted range of offensive threats. Pokemon like Torkoal, Mandibuzz, Golisopod, Celebi, Hippowdon, Silvally, Snorlax, and Mantine are all viable options, and I think that's really cool.

Some sets that I like:

1576576101238.png

Zekrom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Knock Off / Dragon Darts
- Shift Gear
- Spore / Will-o-Wisp

This is one of the most dangerous Zekrom sets, as it beats Imposter and can wear down Fur Coat mons over the course of the game, which is what a lot of teams rely on to beat Zekrom normally. It has a pretty easy time setting up due to its surprising bulk and ability to force switches and it beats a lot of Pranksters through Spore + Knock. This gets way worse if Ferrothorn gets more popular (which it should, Ferro is so good atm).

1576576080504.png

le fish (Barraskewda) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Drizzle / Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Bolt Beak / Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Sunsteel Strike

Thank god Barraskewda is slower than Zacian and Zamazenta. There's a lot of options for coverage on this mon, but it doesn't really matter that much: the only important move here is that first one. Skewda is stupid fast and really difficult to switch into, but it unfortunately falls just a couple points short of the dogs and dies to just about anything. Intrepid Sword is very difficult to Imposter-proof also. This set loves rain support.

1576576051853.png

Solgaleo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake / V-Create
- Double Iron Bash

I've also been using Scarf Solgaleo, and I really love it, it's an excellent set. After some experimentation I've come to believe that this is the best build for it. The extra power from Intrepid Sword > Adaptability lets you hit a number of important power benchmarks, particularly OHKOing Melmetal and opposing Solgaleo with V-Create, guaranteeing the OHKO on Zamazenta with Photon Geyser, and OHKOing Dragapult with Double Iron Bash after Stealth Rock. This set can be difficult to Imposter-proof: with Earthquake I've used Prankster Corviknight and with V-Create I used Flash Fire Melmetal.

1576576090828.png

Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Earthquake / Fishious Rend
- Sunsteel Strike / Fishious Rend
- U-turn / Fishious Rend

Zeraora is super underrated and I've barely seen anyone using it on ladder. This outspeeds everything relevant except Zacian-C and hits dummy hard. Really fun mon but suffers from people preparing so hard for Zekrom because it loses to all the same stuff.

1576576350407.png

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Anchor Shot
- Recover
- Spectral Thief / Filler

Everyone falls for this. Every single one of the dozens of times I have brought this in against a Zekrom they have instantly clicked the funny yellow move and gotten trapped for it. This is also a great check for a bunch of other random mons, a good improof for your own Zekrom/Zeraora, and a slow pivoter that can still trap Imposter.

I'm glad Psychic Surge was unbanned (although it's weird that this was not announced on this thread at all), and I think it's perfectly balanced at the moment. Later, once the metagame has settled down, I hope we can reconsider some other things on the banlist which are not obviously broken anymore, particularly Contrary (Fleur Cannon and Psycho Boost don't exist, no abusers on the level of MMY/MMX/Mega Ray) and Moody (doesn't boost evasion anymore, still struggles hard against Imposter, Prankster, Spectral Thief).

I'm having a lot of fun with the tier so far! It's balanced, dynamic, pretty fast-paced, and really rewards experimentation and tight teambuilding. Keen to work on resources for this metagame once it all shakes out.
 
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look mum im double posting

Let's talk about Ground types. Ground is maybe the single best type in the tier at the moment. There are very few relevant Flying types or Ground resists, and so so many of the best Pokemon in the metagame are weak to Ground: Reshiram, Zekrom, Eternatus, Crowned dogs, Solgaleo/Dusk Mane, Melmetal, Aegislash, Toxapex, etc. It's also great defensively, as the immunity to Electric makes them some of the best defensive answers to Zekrom, and their weaknesses are somewhat uncommon. This makes Ground-types extremely valuable to a wide range of teams. However, all of the great Ground-types from previous generations are gone, and none of the ones that remain have a particularly impressive BST. If something like Groudon was around it'd run the show, but in the absence of anything like that we have a dozen or so decent Grounds, each with their own little pros and cons. I'll go over all of the Grounds that I think have a niche and explain what sets them apart from the others and what sorts of sets they can run.
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Hippowdown - Ground - 108 / 112 / 118 / 68 / 72 / 47

Hippo is sorta the baseline for bulky Grounds. Great physical bulk, middling special bulk, respectable Attack. Hippo is bulky enough to usually handle Zekrom without needing to run Fur Coat (although it should be wary of Fishious Rend), giving it the option of running abilities like Poison Heal, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Ice Scales etc instead, giving it far more general utility.

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Silvally-Ground - Ground - 95 / 95 / 95 / 95 / 95 / 95

Silvally's advantages over its Ground-type brethren are its Special Defense and Speed. The Speed is particularly notable, as it gives Silvally the jump on Zekrom and Reshiram, making it far less passive against them and less afraid of Zekrom's Fishious Rend. Needs to run Fur Coat to handle Zekrom, so it's not very flexible.
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Gastrodon - Water / Ground - 111 / 83 / 68 / 92 / 82 / 39
Seismitoad - Water / Ground - 105 / 95 / 75 / 85 / 75 / 74

These two are lumped together here because they're ultimately very similar. Gastrodon has significantly better special bulk but is a bit frailer physically, and Seismitoad hits harder from both sides. The secondary Water typing is incredible, making them neutral to Fishious Rend and Kyurem-B's Ice STAB, and granting them excellent resists to Steel and Fire. With Fur Coat, this makes them effective answers to mons like Refrigerate Kyurem-B and various Zacian-C and Melmetal sets, on top of being very effective Zekrom counters. Whiscash is potentially worth considering as well. It's bulk is almost identical to Seismitoad's, but it has lower attacking and speed stats. If you're running a set that doesn't really care about its attacking stats, Whiscash's slower pivots may make it the better choice over Seismitoad.

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Runerigus - Ghost / Ground - 58 / 95 / 145 / 50 / 105 / 30

Runerigus is not as bulky as many of the alternatives, particularly on the special side, but the Ghost-typing grants some helpful immunities, particularly to Shedinja's Endeavor, Zamazenta's Fighting STAB, and miscellaneous Body Presses. Being immune to Memory-less Multi-Attack makes this great for Imposter-proofing Multi-Attack Zekrom sets as well. Being weak to the fairly common Knock Off and Spectral Thief can make Runerigus easy to wear down.

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Rhydon - Rock / Ground - 105 / 130 / 120 / 45 / 45 / 40
Rhyperior - Rock / Ground - 115 / 140 / 130 / 55 / 55 / 40

Rock comes with a bunch of awkward weaknesses, but Rhydon makes up for it by being the overall bulkiest Ground in the metagame thanks to Eviolite, as well as having very respectable offensive presence. Rhydon can run a bunch of sets effectively, including Magic Bounce, Ice Scales, Prankster, and Water Absorb. Rhyperior's only real niche I think is Poison Heal sets (which are OK at best), as otherwise it's just outclassed by its far bulkier pre-evolution.

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Steelix - Steel / Ground - 75 / 85 / 200 / 55 / 65 / 30
Stunfisk-Galar - Steel / Ground - 109 / 81 / 99 / 66 / 84 / 32

Steelix's insane physical bulk and Dragon resist make it probably the most effective Zekrom counter in the metagame, and a solid check to a range of physical attackers beyond that. It can run a pretty solid Ice Scales set, but it should be noted that Steelix's Electric immunity is basically its only niche over Melmetal. Stunfisk-Galar is a weird Pokemon, with much worse physical bulk than Steelix but a fair bit more special bulk. To be honest I'm not sure if Stunfisk-G is viable, I think it would require a pretty specific team to want to run it.

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Excadrill - Steel / Ground - 110 / 135 / 60 / 50 / 65 / 88

A more offensive Steel/Ground, Excadrill's power and great STABs make it legitimately difficult for many teams to switch into while also providing decent defensive utility. I've had some success with a Scarf Intrepid Sword set on this, although it annoyingly speed ties the uncrowned dogs if you run Adamant.

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Mamoswine - Ice / Ground - 110 / 130 / 80 / 70 / 60 / 80

Mamoswine is an odd one. It's surprisingly physically bulky, and its Refrigerate set makes for a really solid offensive check to Zekrom, Dragapult, Eternatus, and other miscellaneous threats. This faces very stiff competition from Kyurem-B (and probably Darmanitan-G-Z when that gets freed) but sets itself apart by being able to switch into Zekrom in a pinch, not being weak to rocks (making it a better spinner), and having an easier time getting through Steel-types thanks to its Ground STAB. Not all that great defensively compared to other Grounds due to the many weaknesses that Ice gives it.
 
That was fun. Lets do it again, but with Ghost-types! Ghosts are not as useful this generation mainly because there is not a great Fighting STAB abuser like MMX was previously and even less so now that Body Press is no longer bugged. However, Shedinja is still around and is easily the best Ghost-type (although its typing isn't really its selling point in BH). MAMP already discussed some good points on Shedinja's impact this generation and it is certainly going to have a huge presence. This generation has buffed Shedinja in many ways, along with removing two of the best Ghost-types in Giratina and Mega Gengar. Its always nice to have a reliable switch-in to Endeavor, so I'll discuss some of the Ghost-types I see as viable or potentially viable for this generation.

Shedinja

Shedinja remains a potent threat in the meta, serving as a wall, pivot, and breaker in one. The addition Heavy Duty Boots and Teleport as a pivot move along with the removal of Moldy Pursuit are greatly appreciated by Shedinja. However, this meta is very physically oriented so far and has led to many teams opting for Rocky Helmet to punish physical contact. This indirectly hurts Shedinja, who is busy trying on his new kicks. Adapting to this, many Shed builds have opted for non-contact moves like Pain Split, Baton Pass, Stealth Rock, and Spirit Shackle to avoid stray helmets. I've even seen some Sheds acting as the hazard remover or even a cleric. These builds are not near as effective at breaking as the Endeavor + Extreme Speed combination, though. I agree that Shed teams are not optimized yet, but in time we will see its full effect on the meta. I think that Protective Pads is still a great item choice for Shed as long as it has the right team support.

Physical Attackers

The buff to Multi-Attack has made physical Normalize threats the new normal. While this sounds great for fans of physical Ghost-types, the good news pretty much stops there. Dragapult is certainly speedy and makes for an annoying Normalize mon, but its lack of raw power and versatility compared to last gen's Mega Gengar makes it much easier to handle without going out of your way to prep for it. That being said, if you bring no counter-play to Normalize you will definitely have trouble with Dragapult. Shedinja can also pretty easily stall out Normalize sets as long as it has healthy teammates. Other than Normalize, Dragapult can opt for less effective lure sets like Dazzling or Tough Claws with Close Combat to nail unsuspecting Ttar switch-ins. Marshadow is an interesting mon this gen as it packs more power than Dragapult at the cost of having a lackluster speed tier. Fighting STAB along with Ghost Multi-Attack means it can be fully improof all while having a very nice offensive STAB combination. I've had some success running a Mold Breaker set with Ghost Memory and Low Kick. Its self-improof, handles Shedinja, 2HKOs Fur Coat Steels not named Steelix while unboosted, and can be even more threatening if it gets a chance to setup.

Special Attackers

Special Attacking Ghosts have taken a huge blow this generation with the removal of Judgment. Not having Judgment or Z-moves practically eliminates the possibility of having an effective special Normalize threat. The lack of Judgment is also bad news for Shedinja though, as Moongeist Beam is the best STAB option now. No longer having the ability to self-improof certainly hurts their viability, but the blow is softened by having weaker Imposter users that take big damage from Ghost STAB. While the pool of viable mons is very small, they do boast some of the highest available special attacking stats and interesting type combinations. Lunala's speed tier lets it run scarf sets to out pace notable offensive threats like Zacian-C and Dragapult, even with a Modest nature. Necrozma Dawn-Wings surprisingly has the second highest special attack stat this generation. Since its speed tier doesn't let it do anything notable with a scarf, I could see specs sets having some potential. Chandelure has a great STAB combination but is in an awkward speed tier and has poor bulk, unlike Lunala and Dawn-Wings. I've seen scarf sets as well as Chlorophyll, with neither being optimized, but I think this mon has potential to be a niche special breaker.

Walls

Aegislash has the best mixed bulk of all Ghost-types this gen even after the unsought nerf. It generally plays the same roles as last gen, which were Flash Fire or Prankster. But its typing and stats allow it to serve different roles depending on team needs, like Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Fur Coat, etc. Runerigus has decent bulk, but definitely leaves you wanting more. As said by others and myself, it does have a nice niche in improofing Multi-Attack Zekrom all while picking from any ability it wants. Jellicent has a nice typing but lacks the physical bulk it really needs to be an effective wall. This can be mitigated with Poison Heal + Will-o-Wisp and/or King's Shield sets that I've seen on the ladder, though. I haven't seen any Gourgeist on the ladder, but its Super forme has decent 85/122/75 bulk and an interesting typing. I could see it serving as a niche Primordial Sea or Prankster user if Spore ever picks back up in usage. It depends on the set of course, but most of these mons carry something to pester Shedinja, like status, partial trapping, or Leech Seed.

Eviolite Users

What goes best with an item-dependent mon? A weakness to an item-removing attack! Knock Off is a very useful and common utility move so far, which does not bode well for Eviolite wielding Ghost-types. However, with a Knock Off sponge as team support (ex. Poison Heal), these guys have some impressive bulk and decent utility. The downside is they are fairly predictable and usually restricted to abilities like Prankster, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, or Magic Bounce. The Body Press fix also removed the small niche they had of firing off high-powered attacks. These guys are also all extremely slow, which can leave them in a bind to heal up after racking up chip damage if they are not Prankster. Lastly, they usually have no great way of punishing Imposter, which can come in and PP stall for a while.

Miscellaneous

Bad. There is little to no reason to use these mons. Drifblim can play imposter if you really hate Spikes or need to improof something wack like Ice Memory Mamoswine. Otherwise, its outclassed. Gengar has less bulk than all of the special Ghosts mentioned above and is weaker than all of them. The only thing setting it apart is a little more speed and a secondary STAB that half the meta is immune to. I haven't seen or tried the G-Max move, but I doubt its useful or good enough to set it apart from the other special Ghosts. If you really hate phazing, then Mimiyku is the mon for you. Magic Bounce lets it stop Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, and Circle Throw all in one mon! But this is the only "niche" it has. Otherwise, it has pretty terrible stats and no reason to see usage (unless for some unknown reason, you need a Kommo-o improof).
 
Sorry for the messy formatting, and I'm sure this set has been put out before but

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Zekrom @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Fishious Rend
- Dragon Darts
- V-Create/Trick/U-Turn





Beak to kill everything by pushing a button. Dragon Darts for other dragons, fish for ground types. Trick to cripple passive mons. It really does OHKO nearly every non-resist or ground on switch in. Even Fur Coat is usually 2HKO.




Melmetal:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 424-501 (89.4 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Melmetal: 658-776 (138.8 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO




Fur Coat Aegislash:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash: 217-256 (71.3 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom V-create vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash: 306-362 (100.6 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bolt Beak obviously OHKO's any non-fur coat aegis




What's better is that if you don't know if Corviknight is volt absorb or flash fire... Fire off a bolt beak anyways. You can always dynamax and kill with the V-create.




Not even Fur Coat seismitoad can switch in:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 220-259 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery




Fur Coat Runerigus:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Runerigus: 282-332 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO




FF ferro:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 226-267 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



Primordial Sea Grass Silvally:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Silvally-Grass in Heavy Rain: 311-366 (78.9 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Then you can max to snag the KO after they recover.




This tends to do poorly against the faster mons like the dogs and other gen 5 box legendaries, due to adamant nature being outsped, but jolly misses out on a lot of vital damage. I'm imposter-proofinf this with shed, but flash fire ferro also works. Overall a very solid wallbreaker, if a little reliant on prediction.
 
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That was fun. Lets do it again, but with Ghost-types! Ghosts are not as useful this generation mainly because there is not a great Fighting STAB abuser like MMX was previously and even less so now that Body Press is no longer bugged. However, Shedinja is still around and is easily the best Ghost-type (although its typing isn't really its selling point in BH). MAMP already discussed some good points on Shedinja's impact this generation and it is certainly going to have a huge presence. This generation has buffed Shedinja in many ways, along with removing two of the best Ghost-types in Giratina and Mega Gengar. Its always nice to have a reliable switch-in to Endeavor, so I'll discuss some of the Ghost-types I see as viable or potentially viable for this generation.

Shedinja

Shedinja remains a potent threat in the meta, serving as a wall, pivot, and breaker in one. The addition Heavy Duty Boots and Teleport as a pivot move along with the removal of Moldy Pursuit are greatly appreciated by Shedinja. However, this meta is very physically oriented so far and has led to many teams opting for Rocky Helmet to punish physical contact. This indirectly hurts Shedinja, who is busy trying on his new kicks. Adapting to this, many Shed builds have opted for non-contact moves like Pain Split, Baton Pass, Stealth Rock, and Spirit Shackle to avoid stray helmets. I've even seen some Sheds acting as the hazard remover or even a cleric. These builds are not near as effective at breaking as the Endeavor + Extreme Speed combination, though. I agree that Shed teams are not optimized yet, but in time we will see its full effect on the meta. I think that Protective Pads is still a great item choice for Shed as long as it has the right team support.

Physical Attackers

The buff to Multi-Attack has made physical Normalize threats the new normal. While this sounds great for fans of physical Ghost-types, the good news pretty much stops there. Dragapult is certainly speedy and makes for an annoying Normalize mon, but its lack of raw power and versatility compared to last gen's Mega Gengar makes it much easier to handle without going out of your way to prep for it. That being said, if you bring no counter-play to Normalize you will definitely have trouble with Dragapult. Shedinja can also pretty easily stall out Normalize sets as long as it has healthy teammates. Other than Normalize, Dragapult can opt for less effective lure sets like Dazzling or Tough Claws with Close Combat to nail unsuspecting Ttar switch-ins. Marshadow is an interesting mon this gen as it packs more power than Dragapult at the cost of having a lackluster speed tier. Fighting STAB along with Ghost Multi-Attack means it can be fully improof all while having a very nice offensive STAB combination. I've had some success running a Mold Breaker set with Ghost Memory and Low Kick. Its self-improof, handles Shedinja, 2HKOs Fur Coat Steels not named Steelix while unboosted, and can be even more threatening if it gets a chance to setup.

Special Attackers

Special Attacking Ghosts have taken a huge blow this generation with the removal of Judgment. Not having Judgment or Z-moves practically eliminates the possibility of having an effective special Normalize threat. The lack of Judgment is also bad news for Shedinja though, as Moongeist Beam is the best STAB option now. No longer having the ability to self-improof certainly hurts their viability, but the blow is softened by having weaker Imposter users that take big damage from Ghost STAB. While the pool of viable mons is very small, they do boast some of the highest available special attacking stats and interesting type combinations. Lunala's speed tier lets it run scarf sets to out pace notable offensive threats like Zacian-C and Dragapult, even with a Modest nature. Necrozma Dawn-Wings surprisingly has the second highest special attack stat this generation. Since its speed tier doesn't let it do anything notable with a scarf, I could see specs sets having some potential. Chandelure has a great STAB combination but is in an awkward speed tier and has poor bulk, unlike Lunala and Dawn-Wings. I've seen scarf sets as well as Chlorophyll, with neither being optimized, but I think this mon has potential to be a niche special breaker.

Walls

Aegislash has the best mixed bulk of all Ghost-types this gen even after the unsought nerf. It generally plays the same roles as last gen, which were Flash Fire or Prankster. But its typing and stats allow it to serve different roles depending on team needs, like Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Fur Coat, etc. Runerigus has decent bulk, but definitely leaves you wanting more. As said by others and myself, it does have a nice niche in improofing Multi-Attack Zekrom all while picking from any ability it wants. Jellicent has a nice typing but lacks the physical bulk it really needs to be an effective wall. This can be mitigated with Poison Heal + Will-o-Wisp and/or King's Shield sets that I've seen on the ladder, though. I haven't seen any Gourgeist on the ladder, but its Super forme has decent 85/122/75 bulk and an interesting typing. I could see it serving as a niche Primordial Sea or Prankster user if Spore ever picks back up in usage. It depends on the set of course, but most of these mons carry something to pester Shedinja, like status, partial trapping, or Leech Seed.

Eviolite Users

What goes best with an item-dependent mon? A weakness to an item-removing attack! Knock Off is a very useful and common utility move so far, which does not bode well for Eviolite wielding Ghost-types. However, with a Knock Off sponge as team support (ex. Poison Heal), these guys have some impressive bulk and decent utility. The downside is they are fairly predictable and usually restricted to abilities like Prankster, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, or Magic Bounce. The Body Press fix also removed the small niche they had of firing off high-powered attacks. These guys are also all extremely slow, which can leave them in a bind to heal up after racking up chip damage if they are not Prankster. Lastly, they usually have no great way of punishing Imposter, which can come in and PP stall for a while.

Miscellaneous

Bad. There is little to no reason to use these mons. Drifblim can play imposter if you really hate Spikes or need to improof something wack like Ice Memory Mamoswine. Otherwise, its outclassed. Gengar has less bulk than all of the special Ghosts mentioned above and is weaker than all of them. The only thing setting it apart is a little more speed and a secondary STAB that half the meta is immune to. I haven't seen or tried the G-Max move, but I doubt its useful or good enough to set it apart from the other special Ghosts. If you really hate phazing, then Mimiyku is the mon for you. Magic Bounce lets it stop Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, and Circle Throw all in one mon! But this is the only "niche" it has. Otherwise, it has pretty terrible stats and no reason to see usage (unless for some unknown reason, you need a Kommo-o improof).
Is it kay to mention Type: Null? As an Eviolite user? Plus, as an Eviolite Imposter - none other than Mr. Munchylax. AKA Snor Jr.

I feel that a good normal type, like Type: Null is helpful due to the lack of several weaknesses and general utility. It’s basically as bulky as Arceus but without the option for Leftovers, or Poison Heal Toxic Orb shenanigans.

On another note, I like MAMP and your thorough analysis for these types, as I think it will be key to use some of these ideas for the VR.

Speaking of which, I always wanted to confirm, which is better Corsola-Galar or Dusclops? Same type, matching item in Eviolite. Isn’t 1 strictly better?
I view Dusclops as better, especially for Fur Coat sets bc of its stronger Body Press (higher base Defense), plus it can better abuse Strength Sap (having a lower base HP helps it in this regard).

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 168-198 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Did I answer my own question?

Even a neutral nature on Dusclops is barely worse off than +Def Nature Corsola:

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 186-218 (65.4 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Why Corsola?
 
Is it kay to mention Type: Null? As an Eviolite user? Plus, as an Eviolite Imposter - none other than Mr. Munchylax. AKA Snor Jr.

I feel that a good normal type, like Type: Null is helpful due to the lack of several weaknesses and general utility. It’s basically as bulky as Arceus but without the option for Leftovers, or Poison Heal Toxic Orb shenanigans.

On another note, I like MAMP and your thorough analysis for these types, as I think it will be key to use some of these ideas for the VR.

Speaking of which, I always wanted to confirm, which is better Corsola-Galar or Dusclops? Same type, matching item in Eviolite. Isn’t 1 strictly better?
I view Dusclops as better, especially for Fur Coat sets bc of its stronger Body Press (higher base Defense), plus it can better abuse Strength Sap (having a lower base HP helps it in this regard).

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 168-198 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Did I answer my own question?

Even a neutral nature on Dusclops is barely worse off than +Def Nature Corsola:

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 186-218 (65.4 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Why Corsola?
Dusclops is pretty much strictly better than Corsola. It's bulkier on both sides and hits harder. A little bit slower too for slower pivots.
 
Is it kay to mention Type: Null? As an Eviolite user? Plus, as an Eviolite Imposter - none other than Mr. Munchylax. AKA Snor Jr.
Sure I guess, but I was exclusively mentioning Ghost-types in my post.

Also, as mentioned in my last post, Body Press is no longer as broken as we thought it was. It is no longer boosted by Fur Coat or Eviolite, making it significantly less threatening. This pretty much invalidates having Body Press on mons that don't gain STAB, especially Ghost-types since they are prone to Spectral Thief. Stat boosts like Dauntless Shield and Cotton Guard still boost damage, but the loss of power that Fur Coat and Eviolite gave makes this move much easier to play around. That being said, there is still potential for sets to try Body Press + Cotton Guard with alternative abilities. These sets could make for an interesting setup sweeper, but still are prone to Haze, Spectral Thief, Topsy-Turvy, and other similar anti-setup strategies.
 
I'm kinda bouncing around on things and trying to find a playstyle I wanna pursue this generation. Haven't really sunk my teeth into it well yet since... holidays + retail. But some interesting things I've tooled around with are below. This is also early starting point investigations, so bear in mind this stuff is hardly optimized. I'm also not expecting much, if any, of it to become mainline options, but who knows? Regardless, interesting stuff, but try them out with a few grains of salt.


Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

Basically a poor man's Mega-Manectric. Alternatively, a rich man's Gen V Jolteon. While is is strictly weaker than the niche-mega from last Gen, it also super appreciates the fact that the overall offensive metagame is a lot slower and Zygarde, Giratina, and Primal-Groudon have all been benched which, in turn, gives it a lot fewer common walls. Also, unlike Mega-Mane, it can get its own Terrain Support with Dynamax shenannigans. It competes with Zekrom for the role, who hits harder and is bulker, but Jolteon is faster and can get the jump on some quicker opponents, especially ones with (Special) Attack natures. I ran this with terrain support although the the rest of the team is otherwise bad, so I won't discuss it. Not expecting this to be a mainline set either way unless Zekrom gets booted for some reason and probably may appreciate different moves or abilities. No Guard Zappy might be a lot better this time around for fast, hard-hitting paralysis. The coverage on the set is still pretty wimpy though, which was Mega-Mane's big problem, and it may want Water or Ground moves this gen instead of Ice.


Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Strength Sap
- Double Iron Bash

This is straight up my hazard-setting Solgaleo from Gen VII with a slight move update from Gear Grind to Double Iron Bash. Its power is actually pretty decent this go around with the much lower bulk and it is also much higher in the speed tiers too, which is great for moldy Taunt. Main downside to this particular version is Toxapex and Eternus steal Toxic Spikes, so T.Spikes might not be the best option (and is fairly team specific anyway).


Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Recover
- Spiky Shield
- Foul Play
- Will-o-Wisp / Toxic

With Yveltal, Ttar, and Mega-Gyarados all gone, Umbreon steps up as the bulkiest Dark-type in the meta once more rather than merely sharing the title. It lacks all of their offensive prowress, unfortunately, it's also incredibly happy that Xerneas, Mega-Diancie, Margerna, and MMX have all gotten the boot. The crowned doggos and Body Press all getting mechanics nerfed is super sweet icing on the cake. Hence, many of its arch-nemesis are cleared out and it actually has potential to make a splash. Unaware Umbreon is pretty darn bulky, gets STAB Foul Play to make physical attackers really cry. and a great answer to set-up sweepers although is a little susceptible to wall-breakers on this set. I've not gotten around to them, but Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and potentially AV Regen might all be viable or better options before we even try out some new abilities. Definitely needs some more investigation, but this is a starting place.


Mandibuzz @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Circle Throw
- Knock Off
- Baneful Bunker
- Spectral Thief

A straight port of a Gen VII Yveltal set, although it's not pulled quite as much weight. I think the set is perfectly fine and is still a big pain in the rear, but it might need a different user especially with Bolt Beak running around. Seriously, Bolt Beak and Fishous Rend are both really, really stupid. They're almost like V-Create except without the drawbacks.




And these are mons that kinda show promise but haven't quite worked for me yet. I'm not showing full sets to save my self from being shamed by the badness I created with them but I think the mons themselves might be able to find a niche somewhere.


Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Recover

Although its lost bulk this gen, Prankster Venusaur seems like it might have some potential. Although, outside of tricking, the set I've run so far has been pretty super crap so far, so I'm not including it to save myself the shame. Although it still takes irritating amounts of damage from Bolt Rend stupidity if you don't use a priority move. Might also function with other abilities too. Really funny to send against Normalize Dragapult!


Arcanine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-Create or Pyro Ball?
- U-turn

Arcanine shows some promise as a somewhat bulky Fire-type without Reshiram's Dragon-weakness or Darm-Z's Dark and Ghost weaknesses while having decentish power. Fishous Rend will probably force it to be Water Absorb or Fur Coat though I'm betting. I don't think there's quite a need for a defensive pure-Fire-type at the moment with all the Water and Ground moves flying around, but I think sooner or later it might have a shot at a niche option somewhere.


Musharna
Ability: Uhhhh
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Some Nature
- Moves

Bottom of the usable barrel I've messed with so far. Been trying it out as a Cresselia replacement by running some of its old sets but so far the bulk has been pretty disappointing. I have very low hopes for this mon and I feel like I'm overlooking a better option, but including it here just because it might be able to do something. In the mean time, feel free to point at it, laugh at it, and sell its children to Team Plasma.


I've not tried it yet, but Sylveon's on my radar of Pokemon worth investigating. It was quite usable in BH UU historically as either a Regenvest or Pixilate user so I imagine it must have some viability this go 'round.
 

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