BH Balanced Hackmons

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Ok with the Zamazenta and Zacian (Crowned form) changes I feel the metagame has shocken up quite a bit since those two mons were undeniably the best threats in the metagame without the item / ability restriction. While I still think they will have their niches as just powerful defensive / offensive threats especially with their already amazing base stats and useful natural abilities, I feel this change opens the door for some other threats to shine.


Dragapult @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Shift Gear
- Bolt Beak / Substitute
- Entrainment

One of the best threats hands down right now. Magic Bounce / Ghost Memory Zamazenta-C used to be able to handle Normalize shenanigans from this mon but now with the form change implemented there are a select few of viable ways to really counteract Dragapult from supressing and sweeping the opposing team . I really been liking Bolt Beak for coverage since it can target any Ghost resist / immune for immense amount of damage and also has added benefit in hitting Magic Bounce Corviknight and Mandibuzz hard after Entrainment is redirected. I definitely can see this monster being one of the biggest threats in the teambuilding stage especially with mons in Zacian-C dropping in usage, however a weakness to -atespeed can at least keep it somewhat in check thankfully.


Zamazenta @ Leftovers / Ghost Memory
Ability: Magic Bounce / Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Cotton Guard
- Spectral Thief / Multi-Attack
- Recover

Basically a knock off version of it's previous crowned form sets, I can still see this set put in some work despite the worse defenses and loss of Steel-typing. This mon is usually my primary way of dealing with opposing Dragapult and can also provide some utility in checking dangerous threats such as Zekrom and Kyurem-B with the FC set. It sucks cause losing it's Crowned form really did impact the meta a lot since that version of this set idea really handled a lot of threats much better but hey at least this can still somewhat work.


Zacian @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Coil
- Will-O-Wisp / Pyro Ball / Bolt Beak
- Earthquake

Basically the idea of using PH Coil Xern the previous gen and apply it to a way more physically powerful and faster threat. The loss of Tarrows is huge as you can't just hit the entire metagame with two coverage slots anymore but it can at least make things easier when it comes to improofing this set (as imp can still potentially rkill if Zacian is heavily weakened). FF Corvikinght can really be a pain but can be dealt with with coverage like Bolt Beak.

I am gonna play the metagame a bit more to give some opinions on some other mons I think can perform well but ye these are my thoughts rn, not sure how I feel about more questionable abilities such as Intrepid Sword and stuff like Fishious Rend yet.
 
BH Secret Santa
Copied from last year
Last year's went pretty well so here it is again! Hopefully this will also promote metagame exploration and growth.

The BH Secret Santa will work like standard Secret Santas, where you anonymously give and receive a gift. However, instead of gifts, you will request a BH team built around a certain Pokemon or core that you choose. If you are interested and would like to participate, PM me on Smogon (not on anything else such as Discord or PS) and describe what core you would like someone to build around for you. Once the signup deadline has been reached, I will PM you back describing the core someone else has requested that you'll need to build around. When you're finished, you will PM me back the team and I will send it to the receiver.
Rules

  • Requests must be sent to me via PM here on the Smogon Forums, I will also send you the request for you in the same PM, and you will send me your team also in the same PM.
  • Don't tell anyone what request you have received nor what you have given until the team submission deadline.
  • You may send or edit your request at any time, until request signups are over. Once the deadline is reached, you will no longer be able to edit it. However, please try to minimize the editing, as I may miss your edit and end up sending the old request.
  • DO NOT sign up if you cannot guarantee you can finish the team in time.
  • Please finish the team before the team submission deadline.
  • Submissions shouldn't be overly memey, and if you are submitting a core remember that a core is made up of 2-3 Pokemon. You can also request one specific Pokemon, or even ask for a specific playstyle. If you want, you can ask for an open team.
  • Don't be afraid to join in because you are uncertain of your teambuilding ability! If you want, I can try to help you (I'm not a particularly good teambuilder myself though)
Sign-ups and Request Deadline: December 15th, 11:59 PM, PST
Sign-ups are now closed!


Team Submission Deadline: December 24th, 9:00 PM, PST
 
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Presenting the great wannabe arceus

Big Drag (Silvally-Grass) @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Multi-Attack
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock

a very nice utility mon in the current metagame to add to your defensive core if it is vulnerable to weather or Ground moves. It does the following:
* severly hampers offensive sand/sun teams by changing their weather and also can switch into Resh and Zekrom, both common weather abusers' most common moves. Even Resh's specs Dynamax Cannon won't OHKO, letting it safely scout choice locked:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Reshiram Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Silvally-Grass: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
* Easily walls Zekrom (watch out for Dragon Darts), as it can outspeed Bolt Beak and limit it to 85 bp, and outheal even Poison Heal into Spiky Shield with Multi Attack (it does about 40%), though you may want to watch out for Baneful Bunker poison
* Is one of the few mons who can't be tricked or Knocked thanks to the memory
* can switch into normalize Dragapult and 2hKO it with Multi Attack while even a supereffective +2 Multiattack won't ohko (it does 95%)
* can lead against mold breaker Spore leads and set up its own hazards alongside them, Multi Attack also deals about 35% to Eternitus which can get you a leg up
* can switch into mons with fire/earth/electric coverage no problem, or check choice-locked mons locked into those moves

Cons:
* Multiattack is unstabbed which means that neutral hits won't do much
* Can easily be worn down because no leftovers, loses to most boosting PH users and sweepers; hates sandstorm, all status and all entry hazards
* requires magic bounce teammate to improof
* unable to hit sturdy shed
* Loses to offensive Rain teams as Fisheous from any mon is an easy 2hko
* loses to most steels


This mon isn't designed to work on its own but instead glue together a defensive core.

THis may be the gen where defensive grass types actually are good! Have suggestions for a better grass type in this slot? Let me know!
Replays: I keep forgetting to save the good ones!
 
Just a few sets I've been using that I like.

Trojan Horse (Zekrom) @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash

I like this set a lot, and I've been using it since very early on (carried over from Gen 7 with a couple changes). It's sort of imposter proof (whyyyyy doesn't Galvanize make no memory Multi Attack electric D:), but you have to be at 80% or more if they imposter you at +2 and win the speed tie or have a scarf. Aside from that, this thing is an amazing late game sweeper/wincon. Prankster Aegi has become a common answer to setup, but you can easily 2HKO with +2 Espeed>Espeed to beat Haze>Recover. Burns mean nothing when Boomburst can still destroy tons of mons at +2. Most non resists/AV mons get crushed by Boomburst. It's worked very well for me but I have to stress that it's important to keep it healthy for the late game. Sending it in too early and trying to sweep can screw you hard.

Firewall (Eternatus) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Lava Plume
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Poison Fang

Etern is insanely bulky with a vest and bold nature. It isn't too threatened by imposter Wob due to it's high HP and vest (doesn't beat them though), and it's insanely persistent with Regen. It can spread status with Plume and Nuzzle/Fang, or spin hazards away. I suggest having something with Heal Bell to prevent imposters from crippling you with Nuzzle if you run that, plus Bell is just a really good move right now. I do wish it could run ALL the listed moves but hey nothing is perfect. It's a very consistent pokemon and it's put in major work in a majority of games I've played with it.

Ransomware (Solgaleo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability/Tinted Lens/Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Photon Geyser
- Double Iron Bash
- Spectral Thief/V-Create/Shift Gear(?)
- Switcheroo

Solgaleo has an interesting combination of strong defensive typing, good bulk, and solid speed/attack for the tier. It's stabs are bad however, so Adapt or Lens can help it hit harder against some would be switchins. You can also run Intrepid Sword but eeehh it gets really susceptible to Spectral Thief. Unaware plus Thief for 3rd slot is kinda neat but inconsistent since Sol is bulky but not BULKY and still gets fried by unboosted Blue Flare or V Create. Switcheroo is really good when defensive and stall-esque pokemon are everywhere. Shift Gear is a gimmicky way to let Solgaleo sweep after a Switcheroo, but if you're a sucker for surprise like I am, you'll have fun with it. Others can do a similar thing with Quiver dance but again, it's a gimmicky thing. This set is not gonna be good once BH goes back to Crowned mon hell with the changes getting reverted, but it was fun while it lasted and perhaps if Zac gets banned it will be decent and have a niche.
The other sets on my team I'm not super confident in yet (though Regen Parting Shot Wish Seismitoad has worked way better than I ever expected). I'll share more as I test, or if something is so wild and out there that I just need to share it lol. BH is crazy and less legendaries means you have to get weird to find exactly what you're looking for. Also I'm happy we're getting Darm Z back
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Just a few sets I've been using that I like.

Trojan Horse (Zekrom) @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash

I like this set a lot, and I've been using it since very early on (carried over from Gen 7 with a couple changes). It's sort of imposter proof (whyyyyy doesn't Galvanize make no memory Multi Attack electric D:), but you have to be at 80% or more if they imposter you at +2 and win the speed tie or have a scarf. Aside from that, this thing is an amazing late game sweeper/wincon. Prankster Aegi has become a common answer to setup, but you can easily 2HKO with +2 Espeed>Espeed to beat Haze>Recover. Burns mean nothing when Boomburst can still destroy tons of mons at +2. Most non resists/AV mons get crushed by Boomburst. It's worked very well for me but I have to stress that it's important to keep it healthy for the late game. Sending it in too early and trying to sweep can screw you hard.

Firewall (Eternatus) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Lava Plume
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Poison Fang

Etern is insanely bulky with a vest and bold nature. It isn't too threatened by imposter Wob due to it's high HP and vest (doesn't beat them though), and it's insanely persistent with Regen. It can spread status with Plume and Nuzzle/Fang, or spin hazards away. I suggest having something with Heal Bell to prevent imposters from crippling you with Nuzzle if you run that, plus Bell is just a really good move right now. I do wish it could run ALL the listed moves but hey nothing is perfect. It's a very consistent pokemon and it's put in major work in a majority of games I've played with it.

Ransomware (Solgaleo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability/Tinted Lens/Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Photon Geyser
- Double Iron Bash
- Spectral Thief/V-Create/Shift Gear(?)
- Switcheroo

Solgaleo has an interesting combination of strong defensive typing, good bulk, and solid speed/attack for the tier. It's stabs are bad however, so Adapt or Lens can help it hit harder against some would be switchins. You can also run Intrepid Sword but eeehh it gets really susceptible to Spectral Thief. Unaware plus Thief for 3rd slot is kinda neat but inconsistent since Sol is bulky but not BULKY and still gets fried by unboosted Blue Flare or V Create. Switcheroo is really good when defensive and stall-esque pokemon are everywhere. Shift Gear is a gimmicky way to let Solgaleo sweep after a Switcheroo, but if you're a sucker for surprise like I am, you'll have fun with it. Others can do a similar thing with Quiver dance but again, it's a gimmicky thing. This set is not gonna be good once BH goes back to Crowned mon hell with the changes getting reverted, but it was fun while it lasted and perhaps if Zac gets banned it will be decent and have a niche.
The other sets on my team I'm not super confident in yet (though Regen Parting Shot Wish Seismitoad has worked way better than I ever expected). I'll share more as I test, or if something is so wild and out there that I just need to share it lol. BH is crazy and less legendaries means you have to get weird to find exactly what you're looking for. Also I'm happy we're getting Darm Z back
Me too! I know it’s all because 420LegitShucks did a great job researching the matter. You can view that here. I initially didn’t want to spoil the announcement but I feel like some people would want the context for the acknowledgement, in case The Immortal has wanted to be seen first.

Ultimately, I feel it will be they both will be the great check (offensively Galar), and counter (defensively Unova) to the doggos bc it can either KO, or single-handledly resist all of their STABs, while threatening with its own STAB.

I hope to put them to good use.

Lastly, I like your sets. For someone who recently joined us, I am glad you came up with helpful and very strong utility even against Imposter.

Externatus with RegenVest doesn’t just seem to work well, it makes very good sense, as the fall of Psychic attackers & attacks, weakening of Ground moves, and high Speed allow it to escape very well without coming in on a hit and being afraid of going last to tank 1 too many (like if the foe has a surprise coverage move).

For Solgaleo maybe a good set would be Prankster / Magic Bounce:
Spectral Thief, Roost, Anchor Shot, Entrainment / Poison Fang.

This allows you to Imposterproof your Zekrom, if it fell below 80% HP, as they Multi-Attack on your switch, which you resist. When they try and Boomburst, they get Entrained so you resist that too (and they lose STAB). Spectral Thief disarms their Shell Smash, and works off of Solgaleo’s workable Attack.

Otherwise I would consider for a Magic Bounce set - Poison Fang for accumulating damage while a foe are trapped. Roost keeps you safe, while Magic Bounce also blocks Hazards, Status attacks, etc. Magic Bounce still stops Entrainment.

This also works well if Imposter switches into it, (you can trap and wear down their PP until they struggle), and can play a major role on a team in general. Solgaleo doesn’t need to be offensive, it can take the offensive boosts away as a defensive check and then bring the power from Spectral Thief.

This also works well as a stop to Dragapult’s Normalize shenanigans. You Entrain first via Prankster as they try and Entrain, and if they try and set up you can Spectral for super effective damage. Since it is a Ghost, you cannot trap, so when they switch out you can Poison Fang their switch-in, only for them to have a 50% chance of being Toxic Poisoned. ;)

Once they see you have Spectral Thief, the will avoid sending in set uppers that are not the Normal-type, and if you have Magic Bounce they cannot try and use status moves or hazards. Be careful of Scald, though, still you handle most things while resisting SRocks, and being immune to Toxic Spikes.
 
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a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
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This also works well as a stop to Dragapult’s Normalize shenanigans
252 Atk Dragapult Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 254-302 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I wouldn't advise using a Psychic-type to check something with Ghost STAB. Prankster Entrainment or Magic Bounce coming from Solgaleo will not concern Dragapult whatsoever. In general, I've found that Prankster Entrainment is not effective at checking Dragapult and that Prankster status like Will-o-Wisp or Toxic are much more effective at crippling it in the long run.
Just a few sets I've been using that I like
Zekrom definitely has a lot of potential this gen. I've found that Runerigus can easily improof Multi-Attack sets as it is immune to imposter Zekrom's STABs without needing an ability (assuming imposter is not holding a memory).

As for the Solgaleo set, I think Adapt Scarf is the most effective one listed. It is neat because it can surprise outspeed Zacian-Crowned and Dragapult and 2HKO both of them with Double Iron Bash while potentially getting the flinch hax. However, it risks being OHKO'd by +1 V-create from Zacian-C if it doesn't get the flinch. You also can out speed and OHKO base Zacian and Zamazenta with super effective STAB, which is something.

For Tinted Lens, this is better suited on Necrozma Dusk-Mane since it has a higher Attack stat. The proposed set below would be more effective at taking out walls like Melmetal (a 3HKO with STABs) rather than revenge killing fast mons like Solgaleo. Tinted Lens on Scarf Solgaleo loses a lot of power that Adaptability gives it and no longer picks up the kills listed above unless you get really lucky with flinch hax.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- V-create
- Filler
I would not recommend running Unaware on Solgaleo for reasons you stated (roasted by Fire coverage) and I would doubly not recommend running an Unaware mon with a Scarf and no healing moves.

Other thoughts on the meta:
Mold Breaker seems like a great offensive ability right now. The prevalence of ability-reliant walls to stop current meta threats is something that can be taken advantage of. Notable abilities used on walls include Flash Fire, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Sturdy, Levitate, and more niche options like Volt/Water Absorb or Unaware. I've used and seen mons like Zekrom and Reshiram blow past would-be checks by ignoring their abilities. Its worth noting that offensive Mold Breakers are harder to improof without limiting their coverage, using Multi-Attack, or using potentially niche mons with type based immunities.

I also find that V-create, Bolt Beak, and Fishious Rend are very restricting on teambuilding. Such high-powered moves in a meta with limited walls almost forces you to have Fur Coat or Flash Fire on every team in hopes to check them. Its possible to check one or two of them but can be tricky to prep for all three of them.
 
I was already considering Runerigus as a physically bulky support mon but I somehow never even considered the fact that it hard walls imposters that come in on Zekrom. Thank you a loser. I was lurking a lot in Gen 7 but I want to actually contribute stuff this gen so it's nice to see I'm getting decent feedback, and I appreciate all feedback in general.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
252 Atk Dragapult Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 254-302 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I wouldn't advise using a Psychic-type to check something with Ghost STAB. Prankster Entrainment or Magic Bounce coming from Solgaleo will not concern Dragapult whatsoever. In general, I've found that Prankster Entrainment is not effective at checking Dragapult and that Prankster status like Will-o-Wisp or Toxic are much more effective at crippling it in the long run.

Zekrom definitely has a lot of potential this gen. I've found that Runerigus can easily improof Multi-Attack sets as it is immune to imposter Zekrom's STABs without needing an ability (assuming imposter is not holding a memory).

As for the Solgaleo set, I think Adapt Scarf is the most effective one listed. It is neat because it can surprise outspeed Zacian-Crowned and Dragapult and 2HKO both of them with Double Iron Bash while potentially getting the flinch hax. However, it risks being OHKO'd by +1 V-create from Zacian-C if it doesn't get the flinch. You also can out speed and OHKO base Zacian and Zamazenta with super effective STAB, which is something.

For Tinted Lens, this is better suited on Necrozma Dusk-Mane since it has a higher Attack stat. The proposed set below would be more effective at taking out walls like Melmetal (a 3HKO with STABs) rather than revenge killing fast mons like Solgaleo. Tinted Lens on Scarf Solgaleo loses a lot of power that Adaptability gives it and no longer picks up the kills listed above unless you get really lucky with flinch hax.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- V-create
- Filler
I would not recommend running Unaware on Solgaleo for reasons you stated (roasted by Fire coverage) and I would doubly not recommend running an Unaware mon with a Scarf and no healing moves.

Other thoughts on the meta:
Mold Breaker seems like a great offensive ability right now. The prevalence of ability-reliant walls to stop current meta threats is something that can be taken advantage of. Notable abilities used on walls include Flash Fire, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Sturdy, Levitate, and more niche options like Volt/Water Absorb or Unaware. I've used and seen mons like Zekrom and Reshiram blow past would-be checks by ignoring their abilities. Its worth noting that offensive Mold Breakers are harder to improof without limiting their coverage, using Multi-Attack, or using potentially niche mons with type based immunities.

I also find that V-create, Bolt Beak, and Fishious Rend are very restricting on teambuilding. Such high-powered moves in a meta with limited walls almost forces you to have Fur Coat or Flash Fire on every team in hopes to check them. Its possible to check one or two of them but can be tricky to prep for all three of them.
That’s a good point. I thought of what utility it brought to most balanced teams overall, and thought of its ability to outspeed Entrainment as a last resort surprise.

The Calcs prove otherwise, as your point is right; but I could still see it as a check for Zekrom with its Entrainment Prankster set, while being able to stop certain Pokemon like Poison Healers, Regenerators, etc. that heavily rely on their ability.

I like you’re thinking though, CBand Tinted Lens is a safe bet, and for filler I would suggest a Flying move, so if you ever decide to Dynamax, you can get +1 Speed, which will help it alongside the Psychic Terrain, and Sunny weather it would have if it uses all 3 turns.

Once those Dynamax turns wear off, it goes back to Choice Band on top of the weather and Terrain Boosts for some serious sweeping.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
I've been playing a lot of SwSh BH over the last couple weeks and I think it's a really fun, interesting metagame. Here's some thoughts and observations on the current state of the meta.

The reduced range of viable offensive threats is overall a positive change. In previous generations, there were so many powerful threats which required very specific defensive counterplay that the range of viable defensive cores was pretty limited. The defining trait of effective BH teams was role compression; there was so much to prepare for that you needed every single one of your Pokemon to do as much as possible, which often made it difficult to justify running more niche Pokemon and kinda homogenised the metagame at higher levels. A lot of stuff that got banned might not have been so problematic if there wasn't so much other stuff to deal with. For instance Psychic Surge was overbearing, but that was in large part because it was so hard to fit dedicated counterplay to it onto teams. Games last gen frequently felt like they were decided at team preview by whoever had something that their opponent couldn't deal with, but in SwSh I feel like this isn't the case. This tier is a lot less volatile overall, and teambuilding feels a lot less restricted. Stuff that would've been really busted last gen, like Bolt Beak or Double Iron Bash, feels far more reasonable because it's easier to justify running niche defensive stuff to deal with it.

1576576623519.png

The only thing in the meta right now that feels clearly unhealthy to me is Shedinja. Heavy-Duty Boots make Shed so hard to pressure and massively loosen the teambuilding restraints that it used to impose. Additionally, lots of the counterplay to it that existed in previous generations is more difficult to fit onto teams. There are fewer good, splashable Ghost-types in this generation, making it harder to find room for an Endeavor switch-in. Pursuit doesn't exist anymore, Sunsteel is largely outclassed by DiB besides hitting Shed and Photon Geyser and Moongeist Beam are worse (their STAB abusers are weaker/less common and they aren't really relevant coverage), and Sand Stream sucks because there's no Shore Up, only 1 decent Rock-type, and its outclassed by Ice Scales anyway. Shed teams at the moment are still very unoptimised, but Shed already places a tremendous amount of pressure on teambuilding. I would like to see it quickbanned if possible, or if not I would like to see it as the first suspect of the new metagame.

Other than that, stuff to consider suspecting in future is Bolt Beak, Double Iron Bash, Shell Smash, and maybe Fishious Rend, but currently I think all of these are fairly manageable. The metagame is still very much in its early stages, and its very possible that my views on this will change as the meta develops.

Dynamaxing is weird and hard to get used to. It's been quickly proven to be pretty broken in most other tiers but it's not so obviously powerful in BH. BH teams already run good anti-setup measures, making the spiraling Dynamax setup sweepers far more manageable. Additionally, stuff in BH is far bulkier than in other tiers and BH mons are already usually running very high BP moves, so Max Moves aren't as dangerous for allowing Pokemon to get through walls they otherwise wouldn't. It's also a really effective defensive measure: I've stopped so many dangerous sweepers and wallbreakers by Dynamaxing something like Melmetal or Rhydon, eating the hit and KOing them in return. One of the biggest impacts of Dynamax is that it makes Imposter-proofing a lot more difficult, but that's overall balanced out by Imposter being worse this gen anyway. Dynamax really threw me off at first, but once I got used to it I've come to the conclusion that it's a healthy addition to the metagame. BH has the defensive tools to handle it and it adds a really interesting dynamic to the tier. The fact that some of the best Pokemon in the metagame can't Dynamax and that BH has no good abusers of the best Dynamax types (Fighting, Poison, Flying) definitely helps.

Imposter being frailer overall has a lot of subtle little impacts on the metagame. It means that you can get away with having your defensive mons not be improofed so well, because Imposter is rarer, runs Scarf a lot more often, and is easier to pressure regardless: letting it heal freely is less of a big deal when it struggles to switch into a lot of wallbreakers without getting 2HKOd. I think a lot of people, myself including, are kinda still building around Imposter as though it's Gen 7. It'll take some time for the meta to truly adapt to a weakened Imposter; this might secretly be one of the most impactful changes from the last generation.

It's been weird getting used to the way that the relative power level of different types is so much different in this gen than the last. Ice was one of the best and most common coverage types last gen, but it's pretty useless now. Ground, a pretty decent typing last gen, is incredible now both offensively and defensively. I definitely misevaluated a lot of Pokemon at first because I was judging their typings on the standards of the previous generation, particularly Zacian and Golisopod.

Knock Off is really good as a general utility move. Poison Heal is less common, Z-Crystals/Mega Stones/Red Orb don't exist, and there aren't a lot of good dark resists. Knocking off Shedinja's boots make it way easier to deal with, and you can support your own Shedinja by removing opposing Rocky Helmets. The move provides a huge amount of utility and a lot of teams find it difficult to switch into. I've often been just slapping it on my defensive Pokemon when they have a filler slot available and it always puts in work.

Similarly, Spectral Thief is also great. Only really relevant normals are Snorlax and Type:Null and they're usually defensive, and Intrepid Sword/Dynamax means your opponent will often have incidental boosts to nab.

Intrepid Sword is very powerful, but it's far more balanced than I expected. It's very difficult to Imposter-proof, especially with Dynamax in the mix, and gets messed up by Prankster, Spectral Thief, and Unaware. I was concerned at first that this would be broken, but it's definitely not, although it's still probably the best ability for most physical attackers.

Lovely Kiss not existing is lowkey the most blessed thing about this gen, Safety Goggles being legitimate reliable counterplay to sleep is so good.

Thoughts on some individual mons:

1576576406744.png

Eternatus is very unexplored and has the potential to be one of the best mons in the tier, especially with Zacian-Crowned being nerfed. Its typing and stat spread is so good (literally bulkier than pex) that it can do almost anything, but so far I've mainly seen just defensive sets, Specs, and Sheer Force. I think there's a lot that can be done here and I'm keen to see what kinds of new sets people come up with for it.

1576576399223.png

Zacian (not crowned) is not as good as I expected. Fairy was an excellent typing last gen, both offensively and defensively, but that's not the case in SwSh. The tier is full of excellent Fairy resists, and I find that my teams have 2 or 3 without even really trying. Its weaknesses to Steel and Poison are both relevant, and its resistances are not as common as they used to be. It's still good of course, just not the metagame-shaping threat that I had imagined. The sets I've tried are Poison Heal, Choice Band Intrepid Sword, Pixilate, and some defensive sets, which all felt good but not outstanding.

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Dragapult is super overrated. I was really worried about it at first, seeing that it was a super fast Ghost-type with Revelation Dance and Judgment gone and with very few Ghost resists in the metagame. I initially though of it as like Normgar from last gen but faster and with a smaller range of available counterplay. But I underestimated the impact of its poor offensive stats and lack of versatility: Normgar was so threatening because it also just threatened to 2HKO most of the meta and if you guessed the set wrong you might catch a Specs Adaptability Moongeist. Counters to it not only needed to not get shut down by Entrainment, but also had to have either really good special bulk or a ghost resist. Dragapult on the other hand just doesn't hit particularly hard, meaning the range of Magic Bouncers and Comatose mons that can switch into it is way broader. Even Prankster mons with decent physical bulk can stall it out, and offensive Multi Attack mons like Zekrom are reasonable counterplay to it. Its sets besides Normalise are pretty underwhelming too, again due to its low power. I've played around a bit with a Choice Band Intrepid Sword set and some Imposter-proof Shell Smash sets, but they seem middling at best.

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Melmetal is deceptively good and is easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier. He's extremely versatile, obnoxiously bulky, and hits like a truck, making him a really solid glue mon for a lot of different teams. I've had success with Choice Band sets and a range of defensive sets, particularly Flash Fire and Ice Scales. I feel that this mon is very unexplored at the moment as well.
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Mewtwo is another Pokemon that I expected to be better than it is, but its speed tier is a bit underwhelming, its poor physical bulk is crippling, and the meta is infested with Steel types and Ice Scales nonsense. I've tried/seen Specs Psychic Surge, Shell Smash sets, Sheer Force, and Poison Heal, and none of them feel that great to me. Maybe someone will figure out a good set for this at some point, but for now I'm not confident in it being more than a niche pick.

There are all kinds of interesting weird defensive Pokemon that would have never been viable last gen, but which find a place in the meta now due to the tier's lower overall power level and the restricted range of offensive threats. Pokemon like Torkoal, Mandibuzz, Golisopod, Celebi, Hippowdon, Silvally, Snorlax, and Mantine are all viable options, and I think that's really cool.

Some sets that I like:

1576576101238.png

Zekrom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Knock Off / Dragon Darts
- Shift Gear
- Spore / Will-o-Wisp

This is one of the most dangerous Zekrom sets, as it beats Imposter and can wear down Fur Coat mons over the course of the game, which is what a lot of teams rely on to beat Zekrom normally. It has a pretty easy time setting up due to its surprising bulk and ability to force switches and it beats a lot of Pranksters through Spore + Knock. This gets way worse if Ferrothorn gets more popular (which it should, Ferro is so good atm).

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le fish (Barraskewda) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Drizzle / Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Bolt Beak / Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Sunsteel Strike

Thank god Barraskewda is slower than Zacian and Zamazenta. There's a lot of options for coverage on this mon, but it doesn't really matter that much: the only important move here is that first one. Skewda is stupid fast and really difficult to switch into, but it unfortunately falls just a couple points short of the dogs and dies to just about anything. Intrepid Sword is very difficult to Imposter-proof also. This set loves rain support.

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Solgaleo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake / V-Create
- Double Iron Bash

I've also been using Scarf Solgaleo, and I really love it, it's an excellent set. After some experimentation I've come to believe that this is the best build for it. The extra power from Intrepid Sword > Adaptability lets you hit a number of important power benchmarks, particularly OHKOing Melmetal and opposing Solgaleo with V-Create, guaranteeing the OHKO on Zamazenta with Photon Geyser, and OHKOing Dragapult with Double Iron Bash after Stealth Rock. This set can be difficult to Imposter-proof: with Earthquake I've used Prankster Corviknight and with V-Create I used Flash Fire Melmetal.

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Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Earthquake / Fishious Rend
- Sunsteel Strike / Fishious Rend
- U-turn / Fishious Rend

Zeraora is super underrated and I've barely seen anyone using it on ladder. This outspeeds everything relevant except Zacian-C and hits dummy hard. Really fun mon but suffers from people preparing so hard for Zekrom because it loses to all the same stuff.

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Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Anchor Shot
- Recover
- Spectral Thief / Filler

Everyone falls for this. Every single one of the dozens of times I have brought this in against a Zekrom they have instantly clicked the funny yellow move and gotten trapped for it. This is also a great check for a bunch of other random mons, a good improof for your own Zekrom/Zeraora, and a slow pivoter that can still trap Imposter.

I'm glad Psychic Surge was unbanned (although it's weird that this was not announced on this thread at all), and I think it's perfectly balanced at the moment. Later, once the metagame has settled down, I hope we can reconsider some other things on the banlist which are not obviously broken anymore, particularly Contrary (Fleur Cannon and Psycho Boost don't exist, no abusers on the level of MMY/MMX/Mega Ray) and Moody (doesn't boost evasion anymore, still struggles hard against Imposter, Prankster, Spectral Thief).

I'm having a lot of fun with the tier so far! It's balanced, dynamic, pretty fast-paced, and really rewards experimentation and tight teambuilding. Keen to work on resources for this metagame once it all shakes out.
 
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MAMP

MAMP!
look mum im double posting

Let's talk about Ground types. Ground is maybe the single best type in the tier at the moment. There are very few relevant Flying types or Ground resists, and so so many of the best Pokemon in the metagame are weak to Ground: Reshiram, Zekrom, Eternatus, Crowned dogs, Solgaleo/Dusk Mane, Melmetal, Aegislash, Toxapex, etc. It's also great defensively, as the immunity to Electric makes them some of the best defensive answers to Zekrom, and their weaknesses are somewhat uncommon. This makes Ground-types extremely valuable to a wide range of teams. However, all of the great Ground-types from previous generations are gone, and none of the ones that remain have a particularly impressive BST. If something like Groudon was around it'd run the show, but in the absence of anything like that we have a dozen or so decent Grounds, each with their own little pros and cons. I'll go over all of the Grounds that I think have a niche and explain what sets them apart from the others and what sorts of sets they can run.
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Hippowdown - Ground - 108 / 112 / 118 / 68 / 72 / 47

Hippo is sorta the baseline for bulky Grounds. Great physical bulk, middling special bulk, respectable Attack. Hippo is bulky enough to usually handle Zekrom without needing to run Fur Coat (although it should be wary of Fishious Rend), giving it the option of running abilities like Poison Heal, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Ice Scales etc instead, giving it far more general utility.

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Silvally-Ground - Ground - 95 / 95 / 95 / 95 / 95 / 95

Silvally's advantages over its Ground-type brethren are its Special Defense and Speed. The Speed is particularly notable, as it gives Silvally the jump on Zekrom and Reshiram, making it far less passive against them and less afraid of Zekrom's Fishious Rend. Needs to run Fur Coat to handle Zekrom, so it's not very flexible.
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Gastrodon - Water / Ground - 111 / 83 / 68 / 92 / 82 / 39
Seismitoad - Water / Ground - 105 / 95 / 75 / 85 / 75 / 74

These two are lumped together here because they're ultimately very similar. Gastrodon has significantly better special bulk but is a bit frailer physically, and Seismitoad hits harder from both sides. The secondary Water typing is incredible, making them neutral to Fishious Rend and Kyurem-B's Ice STAB, and granting them excellent resists to Steel and Fire. With Fur Coat, this makes them effective answers to mons like Refrigerate Kyurem-B and various Zacian-C and Melmetal sets, on top of being very effective Zekrom counters. Whiscash is potentially worth considering as well. It's bulk is almost identical to Seismitoad's, but it has lower attacking and speed stats. If you're running a set that doesn't really care about its attacking stats, Whiscash's slower pivots may make it the better choice over Seismitoad.

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Runerigus - Ghost / Ground - 58 / 95 / 145 / 50 / 105 / 30

Runerigus is not as bulky as many of the alternatives, particularly on the special side, but the Ghost-typing grants some helpful immunities, particularly to Shedinja's Endeavor, Zamazenta's Fighting STAB, and miscellaneous Body Presses. Being immune to Memory-less Multi-Attack makes this great for Imposter-proofing Multi-Attack Zekrom sets as well. Being weak to the fairly common Knock Off and Spectral Thief can make Runerigus easy to wear down.

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Rhydon - Rock / Ground - 105 / 130 / 120 / 45 / 45 / 40
Rhyperior - Rock / Ground - 115 / 140 / 130 / 55 / 55 / 40

Rock comes with a bunch of awkward weaknesses, but Rhydon makes up for it by being the overall bulkiest Ground in the metagame thanks to Eviolite, as well as having very respectable offensive presence. Rhydon can run a bunch of sets effectively, including Magic Bounce, Ice Scales, Prankster, and Water Absorb. Rhyperior's only real niche I think is Poison Heal sets (which are OK at best), as otherwise it's just outclassed by its far bulkier pre-evolution.

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Steelix - Steel / Ground - 75 / 85 / 200 / 55 / 65 / 30
Stunfisk-Galar - Steel / Ground - 109 / 81 / 99 / 66 / 84 / 32

Steelix's insane physical bulk and Dragon resist make it probably the most effective Zekrom counter in the metagame, and a solid check to a range of physical attackers beyond that. It can run a pretty solid Ice Scales set, but it should be noted that Steelix's Electric immunity is basically its only niche over Melmetal. Stunfisk-Galar is a weird Pokemon, with much worse physical bulk than Steelix but a fair bit more special bulk. To be honest I'm not sure if Stunfisk-G is viable, I think it would require a pretty specific team to want to run it.

1576652734714.png

Excadrill - Steel / Ground - 110 / 135 / 60 / 50 / 65 / 88

A more offensive Steel/Ground, Excadrill's power and great STABs make it legitimately difficult for many teams to switch into while also providing decent defensive utility. I've had some success with a Scarf Intrepid Sword set on this, although it annoyingly speed ties the uncrowned dogs if you run Adamant.

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Mamoswine - Ice / Ground - 110 / 130 / 80 / 70 / 60 / 80

Mamoswine is an odd one. It's surprisingly physically bulky, and its Refrigerate set makes for a really solid offensive check to Zekrom, Dragapult, Eternatus, and other miscellaneous threats. This faces very stiff competition from Kyurem-B (and probably Darmanitan-G-Z when that gets freed) but sets itself apart by being able to switch into Zekrom in a pinch, not being weak to rocks (making it a better spinner), and having an easier time getting through Steel-types thanks to its Ground STAB. Not all that great defensively compared to other Grounds due to the many weaknesses that Ice gives it.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
That was fun. Lets do it again, but with Ghost-types! Ghosts are not as useful this generation mainly because there is not a great Fighting STAB abuser like MMX was previously and even less so now that Body Press is no longer bugged. However, Shedinja is still around and is easily the best Ghost-type (although its typing isn't really its selling point in BH). MAMP already discussed some good points on Shedinja's impact this generation and it is certainly going to have a huge presence. This generation has buffed Shedinja in many ways, along with removing two of the best Ghost-types in Giratina and Mega Gengar. Its always nice to have a reliable switch-in to Endeavor, so I'll discuss some of the Ghost-types I see as viable or potentially viable for this generation.

Shedinja

Shedinja remains a potent threat in the meta, serving as a wall, pivot, and breaker in one. The addition Heavy Duty Boots and Teleport as a pivot move along with the removal of Moldy Pursuit are greatly appreciated by Shedinja. However, this meta is very physically oriented so far and has led to many teams opting for Rocky Helmet to punish physical contact. This indirectly hurts Shedinja, who is busy trying on his new kicks. Adapting to this, many Shed builds have opted for non-contact moves like Pain Split, Baton Pass, Stealth Rock, and Spirit Shackle to avoid stray helmets. I've even seen some Sheds acting as the hazard remover or even a cleric. These builds are not near as effective at breaking as the Endeavor + Extreme Speed combination, though. I agree that Shed teams are not optimized yet, but in time we will see its full effect on the meta. I think that Protective Pads is still a great item choice for Shed as long as it has the right team support.

Physical Attackers

The buff to Multi-Attack has made physical Normalize threats the new normal. While this sounds great for fans of physical Ghost-types, the good news pretty much stops there. Dragapult is certainly speedy and makes for an annoying Normalize mon, but its lack of raw power and versatility compared to last gen's Mega Gengar makes it much easier to handle without going out of your way to prep for it. That being said, if you bring no counter-play to Normalize you will definitely have trouble with Dragapult. Shedinja can also pretty easily stall out Normalize sets as long as it has healthy teammates. Other than Normalize, Dragapult can opt for less effective lure sets like Dazzling or Tough Claws with Close Combat to nail unsuspecting Ttar switch-ins. Marshadow is an interesting mon this gen as it packs more power than Dragapult at the cost of having a lackluster speed tier. Fighting STAB along with Ghost Multi-Attack means it can be fully improof all while having a very nice offensive STAB combination. I've had some success running a Mold Breaker set with Ghost Memory and Low Kick. Its self-improof, handles Shedinja, 2HKOs Fur Coat Steels not named Steelix while unboosted, and can be even more threatening if it gets a chance to setup.

Special Attackers

Special Attacking Ghosts have taken a huge blow this generation with the removal of Judgment. Not having Judgment or Z-moves practically eliminates the possibility of having an effective special Normalize threat. The lack of Judgment is also bad news for Shedinja though, as Moongeist Beam is the best STAB option now. No longer having the ability to self-improof certainly hurts their viability, but the blow is softened by having weaker Imposter users that take big damage from Ghost STAB. While the pool of viable mons is very small, they do boast some of the highest available special attacking stats and interesting type combinations. Lunala's speed tier lets it run scarf sets to out pace notable offensive threats like Zacian-C and Dragapult, even with a Modest nature. Necrozma Dawn-Wings surprisingly has the second highest special attack stat this generation. Since its speed tier doesn't let it do anything notable with a scarf, I could see specs sets having some potential. Chandelure has a great STAB combination but is in an awkward speed tier and has poor bulk, unlike Lunala and Dawn-Wings. I've seen scarf sets as well as Chlorophyll, with neither being optimized, but I think this mon has potential to be a niche special breaker.

Walls

Aegislash has the best mixed bulk of all Ghost-types this gen even after the unsought nerf. It generally plays the same roles as last gen, which were Flash Fire or Prankster. But its typing and stats allow it to serve different roles depending on team needs, like Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Fur Coat, etc. Runerigus has decent bulk, but definitely leaves you wanting more. As said by others and myself, it does have a nice niche in improofing Multi-Attack Zekrom all while picking from any ability it wants. Jellicent has a nice typing but lacks the physical bulk it really needs to be an effective wall. This can be mitigated with Poison Heal + Will-o-Wisp and/or King's Shield sets that I've seen on the ladder, though. I haven't seen any Gourgeist on the ladder, but its Super forme has decent 85/122/75 bulk and an interesting typing. I could see it serving as a niche Primordial Sea or Prankster user if Spore ever picks back up in usage. It depends on the set of course, but most of these mons carry something to pester Shedinja, like status, partial trapping, or Leech Seed.

Eviolite Users

What goes best with an item-dependent mon? A weakness to an item-removing attack! Knock Off is a very useful and common utility move so far, which does not bode well for Eviolite wielding Ghost-types. However, with a Knock Off sponge as team support (ex. Poison Heal), these guys have some impressive bulk and decent utility. The downside is they are fairly predictable and usually restricted to abilities like Prankster, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, or Magic Bounce. The Body Press fix also removed the small niche they had of firing off high-powered attacks. These guys are also all extremely slow, which can leave them in a bind to heal up after racking up chip damage if they are not Prankster. Lastly, they usually have no great way of punishing Imposter, which can come in and PP stall for a while.

Miscellaneous

Bad. There is little to no reason to use these mons. Drifblim can play imposter if you really hate Spikes or need to improof something wack like Ice Memory Mamoswine. Otherwise, its outclassed. Gengar has less bulk than all of the special Ghosts mentioned above and is weaker than all of them. The only thing setting it apart is a little more speed and a secondary STAB that half the meta is immune to. I haven't seen or tried the G-Max move, but I doubt its useful or good enough to set it apart from the other special Ghosts. If you really hate phazing, then Mimiyku is the mon for you. Magic Bounce lets it stop Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, and Circle Throw all in one mon! But this is the only "niche" it has. Otherwise, it has pretty terrible stats and no reason to see usage (unless for some unknown reason, you need a Kommo-o improof).
 
Sorry for the messy formatting, and I'm sure this set has been put out before but

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Zekrom @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Fishious Rend
- Dragon Darts
- V-Create/Trick/U-Turn





Beak to kill everything by pushing a button. Dragon Darts for other dragons, fish for ground types. Trick to cripple passive mons. It really does OHKO nearly every non-resist or ground on switch in. Even Fur Coat is usually 2HKO.




Melmetal:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 424-501 (89.4 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Melmetal: 658-776 (138.8 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO




Fur Coat Aegislash:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash: 217-256 (71.3 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom V-create vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash: 306-362 (100.6 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bolt Beak obviously OHKO's any non-fur coat aegis




What's better is that if you don't know if Corviknight is volt absorb or flash fire... Fire off a bolt beak anyways. You can always dynamax and kill with the V-create.




Not even Fur Coat seismitoad can switch in:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 220-259 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery




Fur Coat Runerigus:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Runerigus: 282-332 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO




FF ferro:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 226-267 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



Primordial Sea Grass Silvally:

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Silvally-Grass in Heavy Rain: 311-366 (78.9 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Then you can max to snag the KO after they recover.




This tends to do poorly against the faster mons like the dogs and other gen 5 box legendaries, due to adamant nature being outsped, but jolly misses out on a lot of vital damage. I'm imposter-proofinf this with shed, but flash fire ferro also works. Overall a very solid wallbreaker, if a little reliant on prediction.
 
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MAMP

MAMP!
Is it kay to mention Type: Null? As an Eviolite user? Plus, as an Eviolite Imposter - none other than Mr. Munchylax. AKA Snor Jr.

I feel that a good normal type, like Type: Null is helpful due to the lack of several weaknesses and general utility. It’s basically as bulky as Arceus but without the option for Leftovers, or Poison Heal Toxic Orb shenanigans.

On another note, I like MAMP and your thorough analysis for these types, as I think it will be key to use some of these ideas for the VR.

Speaking of which, I always wanted to confirm, which is better Corsola-Galar or Dusclops? Same type, matching item in Eviolite. Isn’t 1 strictly better?
I view Dusclops as better, especially for Fur Coat sets bc of its stronger Body Press (higher base Defense), plus it can better abuse Strength Sap (having a lower base HP helps it in this regard).

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 168-198 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Did I answer my own question?

Even a neutral nature on Dusclops is barely worse off than +Def Nature Corsola:

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 186-218 (65.4 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Why Corsola?
Dusclops is pretty much strictly better than Corsola. It's bulkier on both sides and hits harder. A little bit slower too for slower pivots.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Is it kay to mention Type: Null? As an Eviolite user? Plus, as an Eviolite Imposter - none other than Mr. Munchylax. AKA Snor Jr.
Sure I guess, but I was exclusively mentioning Ghost-types in my post.

Also, as mentioned in my last post, Body Press is no longer as broken as we thought it was. It is no longer boosted by Fur Coat or Eviolite, making it significantly less threatening. This pretty much invalidates having Body Press on mons that don't gain STAB, especially Ghost-types since they are prone to Spectral Thief. Stat boosts like Dauntless Shield and Cotton Guard still boost damage, but the loss of power that Fur Coat and Eviolite gave makes this move much easier to play around. That being said, there is still potential for sets to try Body Press + Cotton Guard with alternative abilities. These sets could make for an interesting setup sweeper, but still are prone to Haze, Spectral Thief, Topsy-Turvy, and other similar anti-setup strategies.
 
I'm kinda bouncing around on things and trying to find a playstyle I wanna pursue this generation. Haven't really sunk my teeth into it well yet since... holidays + retail. But some interesting things I've tooled around with are below. This is also early starting point investigations, so bear in mind this stuff is hardly optimized. I'm also not expecting much, if any, of it to become mainline options, but who knows? Regardless, interesting stuff, but try them out with a few grains of salt.


Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

Basically a poor man's Mega-Manectric. Alternatively, a rich man's Gen V Jolteon. While is is strictly weaker than the niche-mega from last Gen, it also super appreciates the fact that the overall offensive metagame is a lot slower and Zygarde, Giratina, and Primal-Groudon have all been benched which, in turn, gives it a lot fewer common walls. Also, unlike Mega-Mane, it can get its own Terrain Support with Dynamax shenannigans. It competes with Zekrom for the role, who hits harder and is bulker, but Jolteon is faster and can get the jump on some quicker opponents, especially ones with (Special) Attack natures. I ran this with terrain support although the the rest of the team is otherwise bad, so I won't discuss it. Not expecting this to be a mainline set either way unless Zekrom gets booted for some reason and probably may appreciate different moves or abilities. No Guard Zappy might be a lot better this time around for fast, hard-hitting paralysis. The coverage on the set is still pretty wimpy though, which was Mega-Mane's big problem, and it may want Water or Ground moves this gen instead of Ice.


Solgaleo @ Leftovers
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Strength Sap
- Double Iron Bash

This is straight up my hazard-setting Solgaleo from Gen VII with a slight move update from Gear Grind to Double Iron Bash. Its power is actually pretty decent this go around with the much lower bulk and it is also much higher in the speed tiers too, which is great for moldy Taunt. Main downside to this particular version is Toxapex and Eternus steal Toxic Spikes, so T.Spikes might not be the best option (and is fairly team specific anyway).


Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Recover
- Spiky Shield
- Foul Play
- Will-o-Wisp / Toxic

With Yveltal, Ttar, and Mega-Gyarados all gone, Umbreon steps up as the bulkiest Dark-type in the meta once more rather than merely sharing the title. It lacks all of their offensive prowress, unfortunately, it's also incredibly happy that Xerneas, Mega-Diancie, Margerna, and MMX have all gotten the boot. The crowned doggos and Body Press all getting mechanics nerfed is super sweet icing on the cake. Hence, many of its arch-nemesis are cleared out and it actually has potential to make a splash. Unaware Umbreon is pretty darn bulky, gets STAB Foul Play to make physical attackers really cry. and a great answer to set-up sweepers although is a little susceptible to wall-breakers on this set. I've not gotten around to them, but Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and potentially AV Regen might all be viable or better options before we even try out some new abilities. Definitely needs some more investigation, but this is a starting place.


Mandibuzz @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Circle Throw
- Knock Off
- Baneful Bunker
- Spectral Thief

A straight port of a Gen VII Yveltal set, although it's not pulled quite as much weight. I think the set is perfectly fine and is still a big pain in the rear, but it might need a different user especially with Bolt Beak running around. Seriously, Bolt Beak and Fishous Rend are both really, really stupid. They're almost like V-Create except without the drawbacks.




And these are mons that kinda show promise but haven't quite worked for me yet. I'm not showing full sets to save my self from being shamed by the badness I created with them but I think the mons themselves might be able to find a niche somewhere.


Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Recover

Although its lost bulk this gen, Prankster Venusaur seems like it might have some potential. Although, outside of tricking, the set I've run so far has been pretty super crap so far, so I'm not including it to save myself the shame. Although it still takes irritating amounts of damage from Bolt Rend stupidity if you don't use a priority move. Might also function with other abilities too. Really funny to send against Normalize Dragapult!


Arcanine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-Create or Pyro Ball?
- U-turn

Arcanine shows some promise as a somewhat bulky Fire-type without Reshiram's Dragon-weakness or Darm-Z's Dark and Ghost weaknesses while having decentish power. Fishous Rend will probably force it to be Water Absorb or Fur Coat though I'm betting. I don't think there's quite a need for a defensive pure-Fire-type at the moment with all the Water and Ground moves flying around, but I think sooner or later it might have a shot at a niche option somewhere.


Musharna
Ability: Uhhhh
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Some Nature
- Moves

Bottom of the usable barrel I've messed with so far. Been trying it out as a Cresselia replacement by running some of its old sets but so far the bulk has been pretty disappointing. I have very low hopes for this mon and I feel like I'm overlooking a better option, but including it here just because it might be able to do something. In the mean time, feel free to point at it, laugh at it, and sell its children to Team Plasma.


I've not tried it yet, but Sylveon's on my radar of Pokemon worth investigating. It was quite usable in BH UU historically as either a Regenvest or Pixilate user so I imagine it must have some viability this go 'round.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Sure I guess, but I was exclusively mentioning Ghost-types in my post.

Also, as mentioned in my last post, Body Press is no longer as broken as we thought it was. It is no longer boosted by Fur Coat or Eviolite, making it significantly less threatening. This pretty much invalidates having Body Press on mons that don't gain STAB, especially Ghost-types since they are prone to Spectral Thief. Stat boosts like Dauntless Shield and Cotton Guard still boost damage, but the loss of power that Fur Coat and Eviolite gave makes this move much easier to play around. That being said, there is still potential for sets to try Body Press + Cotton Guard with alternative abilities. These sets could make for an interesting setup sweeper, but still are prone to Haze, Spectral Thief, Topsy-Turvy, and other similar anti-setup strategies.
I was focused on the heading.

Darmanitan-Zen Mode Galar and Unova are now free! #FreeTheZ!

My new favorite set:

Zekrom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bolt Beak
- Fishous Rend
- Copycat

Bluff Unburden, hit on their switch to a Prankster Hazer, then double the damage and hit first with Copycat. Fishous is for Grounds, Bolt Beak is for STAB, and Belly Drum is because you are a “Turn 1 and done” set up kinda sweeper.

If you thought Zekrom was in need of a way to always go first, at maximum potential, you got it. If you want an Electric Terrain Boost, Dynamax can work when timed appropriately.


Darmanitan-Zen @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Lava Plume
- Parting Shot
- Defog / Stealth Rocks

I have been using it to counter Mewtwo, Refrigerate Kyurem-W (and Imposterproof the set I listed in my prior Kyurem-W post), as well as handle Specs Reshiram, and Eternatus. It takes a good hit, and softens the blows via Parting Shot. I see many Darm-Z in teams, and I am quite impressed that it was a temp banned Pokemon that people quickly used right after it was unbanned (without announcement). So proud!

I have been seeing a lot of Sniper Draco Meteor sets in Kyurem-W and Reshiram, which can 2HKO even Calm Ice Scales, but then again, only a few Steels can switch into those regardless. My point being, RegenVest isn’t cutting it like it used to, as Parting Shot, TopsyTurvey and Haze wont save you. I see Ice Scales and Fur Coat becoming mainstays and middle grounds like RegenVest being replaced as we just don’t have enough bulky Pokemon to use it with.
 
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I was focused on the heading.

Darmanitan-Zen Mode Galar and Unova are now free! #FreeTheZ!

My new favorite set:

Zekrom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bolt Beak
- Fishous Rend
- Copycat

Bluff Unburden, hit on their switch to a Prankster Hazer, then double the damage and hit first with Copycat. Fishous is for Grounds, Bolt Beak is for STAB, and Belly Drum is because you are a “Turn 1 and done” set up kinda sweeper.

If you thought Zekrom was in need of a way to always go first, at maximum potential, you got it. If you want an Electric Terrain Boost, Dynamax can work when timed appropriately.


Darmanitan-Zen @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Lava Plume
- Parting Shot
- Defog / Stealth Rocks

I have been using it to counter Mewtwo, Refrigerate Kyurem-W (and Imposterproof the set I listed in my prior Kyurem-W post), as well as handle Specs Reshiram, and Eternatus. It takes a good hit, and softens the blows via Parting Shot. I see many Darm-Z in teams, and I am quite impressed that it was a temp banned Pokemon that people quickly used right after it was unbanned (without announcement). So proud!

I have been seeing a lot of Sniper Draco Meteor sets in Kyurem-W and Reshiram, which can 2HKO even Calm Ice Scales, but then again, only a few Steels can switch into those regardless. My point being, RegenVest isn’t cutting it like it used to, as Parting Shot, TopsyTurvey and Haze wont save you. I see Ice Scales and Fur Coat becoming mainstays and middle grounds like RegenVest being replaced as we just don’t have enough bulky Pokemon to use it with.

Hm doesn't that Zekrom set get beaten by other Zekroms carrying Dragon Darts?

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Zekrom Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 280-336 (69.3 - 83.1%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO at 75% health

Also both kyurems can outspeed, survive a bolt beak, and destroy this thing. Good for defensive teams though, like you said, with prankster haze/topsy.

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 400-471 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO


Also how would a sniper set work? I'd love to take a look at something 2HKOing through ice scales and steel resists.
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Hm doesn't that Zekrom set get beaten by other Zekroms carrying Dragon Darts?

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Zekrom Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 280-336 (69.3 - 83.1%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO at 75% health

Also both kyurems can outspeed, survive a bolt beak, and destroy this thing. Good for defensive teams though, like you said, with prankster haze/topsy.

+4 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 400-471 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO


Also how would a sniper set work? I'd love to take a look at something 2HKOing through ice scales and steel resists.
Yep, I just figured I wouldn’t sent it in on Kyurem-B/W anyways since you cannot beat Extreme Speed without Dazzling, and they might pack Boomburst (W) or EQ (B) or another move that can threaten Zekrom anyways.

Fishous Rend can be replaced by Dragon Darts, but at that point it does less nuetrally.

For Sniper, they have used Scope Lens, Draco Meteor, Focus Energy, Ice Beam/Blue Flare, Earth Power coverage. This allows them to not get Hazed and bypass the -2 SpA from Draco. It is a wall breaker set since they lack the speed for sweeping. It was a tough thing to counter, and sometimes they pack Moongeist/Photon for Shedinja. But I think the battle I faced Kyurem-W showed Photon, I assumed for Dynamax psychic terrain
 
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Yep, I just figured I wouldn’t sent it in on Kyurem-B/W anyways since you cannot beat Extreme Speed without Dazzling, and they might pack Boomburst (W) or EQ (B) or another move that can threaten Zekrom anyways.

Fishous Rend can be replaced by Dragon Darts, but at that point it does less nuetrally.

For Sniper, they have used Scope Lens, Draco Meteor, Focus Energy, Ice Beam/Blue Flare, Earth Power coverage. This allows them to not get Hazed and bypass the -2 SpA from Draco. It is a wall breaker set since they lack the speed for sweeping. It was a tough thing to counter, and sometimes they pack Moongeist/Photon for Shedinja. But I think the battle I faced Kyurem-W showed Photon, I assumed for Dynamax psychic terrain

My bad my calcs were at +4 not +6 but yeah your points still stand. I'm pretty sure you can live a extreme speed from kyurem-w and OHKO in return with bolt beak. Against Kyurem-b you're hosed.

How would you improof your prankster Zekrom and sniper Kyurem sets?

I can see shed for non-photon geyser variants of kyurem, but what else could counter?
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
My bad my calcs were at +4 not +6 but yeah your points still stand. I'm pretty sure you can live a extreme speed from kyurem-w and OHKO in return with bolt beak. Against Kyurem-b you're hosed.

How would you improof your prankster Zekrom and sniper Kyurem sets?

I can see shed for non-photon geyser variants of kyurem, but what else could counter?
Well, the other issue becomes if they outspeed you from Extreme Speed then you actually KO them with Copycatted Extreme Speed, since it is a Normal-type neutral move and becomes the most recent move used.

Kyurem-Black can KO Zekrom due to Fake-Out and. high Atk, but Kyurem-White was

252 Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-White Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And if it is Specs:

252 Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-White Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 206-246 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Assuming a -Def Mild or Hasty Nature, Zekrom can KO with minor chip damage:

+6 252+ Atk Zekrom Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Kyurem-White: 400-471 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

While Kyurem-Black KOs especially since Zekrom is at 75% after Sitrus and Belly Drum:

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zekrom: 354-416 (87.6 - 102.9%) -- OHKOs Zekrom at 75%

Overall, if you can survive Ky-White Specs Extreme Speed you can KO back after SR, but at that point they could outpredict in a rematch and aim for Boomburst while you Copycat your last move in Bolt Beak.

Anyways, for Improofing: Shedinja works for all, while Unaware/Fur Coat Ferrothorn works for Zekrom, and I don’t use Sniper on them but if I did then Ice Scales Water Starter from Gen 7, (you can also impact your own Kyurem-W such as using Blue Flare so it is resisted by Primarina, instead of Earth Power). Remember, the opposing Imposter lacks Scope Lens, so it will not have a 100% chance to Critical Hit. If they are Scarfed, then it’s easier to handle once you know what they are locked into. But don’t forget Dynamax relieves them of Scarf, so they can still switch moves if they want to... and if you have Blue Flare then they can summon Sun under Dynamax.

So Ice Scales Primarina Vs Blue Flare, Draco, Ice Beam, Focus Energy Otherwise Heavy Duty Boots Shedinja to survive Stealth Rocks - but replace Blue Flare with Earth Power so they can not Burn Shedinja, and so that they cannot summon Sun under Dynamax.

Blue Flare is to KO Steels and use Primarina; while Earth Power is for consistency Vs Flash Fire and to Improof with Shedinja.

Otherwise Critical Hit chance prevention Abilities, Lol.

Edit: Meant to add, they can Dynamax and use Ice Beam to summon Hail to kill Shedinja, so be careful. I suggest Blue Flare and Primarina for this reason alone. Plus Blue Flare threatens more like the Box Covers for a solid 1HKO.

Calcs:

FE826835-7B67-4C3F-9440-951702184F3A.png
I noticed that Ice Scales does not halve damage in the calc:
2941304F-FFF2-4C18-9065-E32E3C6969BD.png

As the damage is the same regardless of ability. (This is is for both critical and non critical hits).

I also noticed that Light Screen shows as working in the calc if it is a non-critical hit:
AF315333-DBB2-48D0-B434-5B58B459A0A8.png

I assume these are errors.

So you would have Focus Energy where Earth Power would be, I am just showing how even a neutral unSTABBED 90 base power Earth Power be too much, if it didn’t have Ice Scales - so Blue Flare is mandatory so you can KO Steels (Aegislash, Zacian-Crowned, Corviknight, etc. are too neutral to Fighting to suggest Aura Sphere, so although it wouldn’t be as overwhelming as Earth Power bc it’s resisted, it’s too weak for your Kyurem-W to use).
 
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Ren

i swore lips were made for lies
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Ground types and Ghost types got a review, so let's give Electric types one too!

What's Changed:
They got an accurate physical attack that's effectively 170 BP almost whenever it wants to be and still respectable power when it isn't, all while still being able to freely pick between an ability and an item.

Verdict:
Electrics are broken. Thank you and good night.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Ground types and Ghost types got a review, so let's give Electric types one too!

What's Changed:
They got an accurate physical attack that's effectively 170 BP almost whenever it wants to be and still respectable power when it isn't, all while still being able to freely pick between an ability and an item.

Verdict:
Electrics are broken. Thank you and good night.
And Water-types. The only issues are Priority of any kind removes their power boost completely if you lack a priority ability, so in a way you may have to consider abilities that help, like Prankster.

Lately, I have been debating whether it’s better or worse than Water-Type Fishous Rend because it doesn’t have a type-immunity, while Water immune abilities are rarely used, plus it can be partnered with Flying STAB in Gyarados, so during Dynamax it can get a +Speed boost while attacking, and doesn’t need to setup, as it can also trigger Rain with a Fishous Rend during Dynamax. It just goes more in sync with its dual STAB, plus it’s STAB Flying compliments it, so it can handle would-be Grass-type switch-ins like Silvally.

Overall, I use Zekrom for now, but I keep thinking Fishous Rend Gyarados can Dynamax to take advantage of both of its STABs, gaining +Speed and not fear getting blocked by Dazzling, or Ground-types...

Using both together means Dragons and Grass block them each, so it can be somewhat difficult to fit them both in the same moveset.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
great posts lads

Here's some sets I've tried:

1576900536193.png

Primarina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Recover
- Filler (pivoting, Knock Off, hazards, shield, Defog, Spectral Thief, Gastro Acid, )

I've really been liking Primarina lately. Solid Sp. Def + good resists let this set take on most Reshiram and Kyu-W sets, and some other miscellaneous stuff like Bolt Beak-less Kyurem-B, PH Zamazenta, and Eternatus without poison coverage. It's also surprisingly hard to switch into repeatedly as it has good Sp. Atk, not much resists its STABs and it can spread around burns with Scald. Unfortunately its bulk overall is not that great: it gets 2HKOd by Specs Kyu-W Boomburst, cops a ton from Volt Switch, and can't take on physical attackers at all. It kinda needs to run Recover to stay healthy enough to do what it needs to, making it way less Imposter-proof. Solid set overall.

Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Filler

Trades some of the longevity and general utility of the previous set to be one of the best Zekrom counters in the tier. Volt Absorb is also really cool to slurp up Volt Switches, which is great against choiced Kyu-W sets. This also takes on Kyu-B a lot better than the PH set as you can't get murked by Bolt Beak. The team I'm using this on takes advantage of its ability to improof both Kyu-W and Zekrom in one slot.
1576900753740.png

Zamazenta @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- U-turn

(other options: Extreme Speed, Bolt Beak, Spectral Thief, Knock Off, Photon Geyser)

A lot of teams on ladder aren't packing very good fighting resists right now, so Zamazenta is really well-positioned as a wallbreaker. The speed and bulk on this make it really easy to get it in and force stuff out, and give it a lot of utility against offense. Intrepid Sword can be hard to improof without sacrificing coverage, but the loss in power with Tough Claws is pretty noticeable, especially for Earthquake against Eternatus and Aegislash. Big shame that this can't Dynamax, because getting to use Max Knuckle would be dope.

1576900558746.png

Golisopod @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp / Nuzzle / Spore
- U-turn
- Obstruct / Spiky Shield
- Spikes / Filler

Golisopod @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce / Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Slack Off
- Filler
- Filler

Golisopod is deceptively good. With PH or Magic Bounce it gets momentum so easily vs bulky teams, its U-turns are threatening, and it can wall a range of physical attackers. The Volt Absorb set takes on pretty much every Zekrom, Zeraora, Kyu-B, and Barraskewda set and stops Kyu-W from coming in and clicking Volt Switch on it for free. Really sick mon, definitely recommend trying this one out. I think there's a lot of room for experimentation with this guy as well, I could see more offensive PH sets with Shift Gear + Fishious Rend being solid.

1576900619299.png

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Mold Breaker / Tinted Lens / Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Bolt Beak / Earthquake

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- V-create
- Fake Out / Earthquake / Rapid Spin
- Bolt Beak / Earthquake / Rapid Spin

Absolutely cursed mon. This is one of the hardest things to wall in the entire tier because V-create is a very silly move, and its great speed/fridge Espeed gives it utility in a lot of different matchups. Has lots of space to switch up coverage and abilities on the CB set to hit different stuff and enable different improofs, making it tricky to prep for. Being able to use Max Hailstorm to kill Shed without having to use up a moveslot on Sunsteel is so good for this mon as well. Requires quite a bit of team support to keep rocks off, get him in safely and improof him but it's absolutely worth it.

1576900670860.png

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power / Eruption / Trick

This set is ok but it's really hard to justify running over Reshiram. The advantages of Chandelure are that it can switch into Endeavor, resists Ice and Fairy and is a bit better at breaking a handful of specific mons, like Flash Fire steels, ghosts, and Mewtwo. That's all nice but usually doesn't make up for having overall worse stats, not outspeeding Zac-C and being far worse against Eternatus, Zekrom, Kyurems and Reshiram. Defensive Chandelure sets could be interesting, but for this Scarf set I think it would take a very specific team to want this instead of Reshiram.
1576900719407.png

Celebi @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spiky Shield
- Filler (Spectral Thief, Teleport, hazards, Defog, etc)

Celebi @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat / Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Filler
- Filler
- Filler

An ok Zekrom counter that can also take on some Barraskewda, Zamazenta, and Mewtwo sets. Fur Coat is its best set overall I think, because Celebi absolutely cops it from U-turn otherwise. Actually kinda outclassed by Silvally-Grass a lot of the time, Celebi's extra weaknesses really suck and the marginal extra bulk and speed don't usually matter that much. Photon Geyser is a lot better on this than it looks. It allows Celebi to better take advantage of its speed and pick off weakened Zekroms and Reshirams and such, and being able to proactively pressure Eternatus, Zamazenta, and Shedinja is really great. It also makes Celebi a lot more threatening when it Dynamaxes.

1576900764389.png

Escavalier @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Roost
- V-Create
- Sunsteel Strike

Escavalier kinda underperformed for me. On paper it's great: no weaknesses, good offensive presence, strong slow STAB U-turn, checks Darm-G-Z, Kyu-B, and offensive steels. In practice, it's just not quite bulky enough to take on the stuff that you want it to, and I think it's largely outclassed by Melmetal, Ferrothorn, and Solgaleo. This offensive set is a ton of fun and can be quite difficult for some teams to switch into, but it might just be worse than a defensive set with Will-o-Wisp and Defog or whatever. Not a bad mon, but I don't think I'd use it unless I needed it to Imposter-proof something specific.

1576906481892.png

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful / Impish Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Haze
- Slack Off
- Filler

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire / Volt Absorb / Magic Bounce / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful / Impish Nature
- Recover
- Anchor Shot / pivoting
- Filler
- Filler

Corviknight is a solid, flexible defensive Pokemon despite its lackluster bulk; like Celesteela last gen, this mon is completely carried by Steel / Flying being a stupid good defensive typing. It's even better this gen than last as Ground coverage is very popular and Thousand Arrows doesn't exist. This improofs a lot of mons really effectively, and can be tailored to deal with a really wide range of offensive threats. Really cool mon overall, I've found myself running this on a lot of different teams.

1576901610709.png

Goodra @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Volt Switch
- King's Shield
- Lava Plume

Goodra @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles
Ability: Fur Coat / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold/Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Roost
- Earth Power / Blue Flare
- Filler

Unfortunately, Goodra is kinda cheeks. At first glance its great Sp. Def, resistances to Water and Electric and reasonable offensive presence made it look decent, but in practice it just doesn't really do anything. It's special bulk is completely squandered by the fact that every relevant special attacker hits it super effectively with STAB, or in the case of Mewtwo just runs Psystrike. It also doesn't really wall anything physically despite resisting Bolt Beak and Fishious Rend: its physical bulk just isn't good enough, and even with Fur Coat Zekrom can bust through with Dragon moves. A bit disappointing because I've been trying to make Goodra work in BH for quite a while. I think this is almost entirely outclassed by Eternatus.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
An intersection of Casual Play and Methodical Research, I have actually, literally, and truly created something uniquely viable in the Balanced Hackmons metagame.

This, is, it;

Coined “Debz-OG” (Because every hit song she makes is critical):

Debz-OG AKA O’Jesus (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Ground Memory
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Shell Smash
- Double Iron Bash / Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser / Psychic Fangs
- Multi-Attack


Brave Nature so you don't impact any more valuable stat, as +2 Speed outspeeds everything besides Ninjask :mehowth:, and so you can go 2nd on the turn you Shell Smash, letting you dodge some Spectral Thief attacks, and ultimately preserve your bulk as they hit you before -1 Def and -1 SpD.

The goal is to break the common checks: Darmanitan-Z, Aegislash / Doublade, and Priority, such as Topsy-Turvey, and Galvanize / Prankster Copycat Zekrom.

I personally prefer DIB + Photon Geyser, so if you are King's Shielded, Burned, Strength Sapped, etc. you can just use Photon Immediately. I also like it for breaking Fur Coat / Unaware Toxapex, and not triggering King's Shield since it isn't a contact move, which is an asset of its own.

With Tough Claws boosting Multi-Attack to 156 base power, Double-Iron Bash to 234 base power, and Psychic Fangs to 165 base power, I find it solves many of its own problems, while being Imposterproof:

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Wobbuffet: 576-678 (98.6 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Mind you, I have not even factored in the -Def from Shell Smash, this means even if Imposter comes in after you have used Max Steel to recover your -1 Def, you can KO it. (See my replay below)

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 384-452 (81 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Double Iron Bash being Imposter's strongest move :

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Wobbuffet Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 216-254 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If everyone has -1 Defense, you are sure to KO them, and they still cannot KO you (under 66.7% damage)

If you Dynamax, you completely avoid all Flinching, and double your survivability... so you are safe.

Dynamax Perks:

1. Dynamaxing on its Psychic move removes the worry for Priority like Topsy-Turvey, and boosts Psychic moves.
2. Dynamaxing on its Steel move boosts Def and can negate the -1 Defense from Shell Smash.
3. Dynamaxing on its Ground move (Multi-Attack), ensures it reduces the foe's Speed, which can be useful, in general.
4. No Flinch! Double HP. Bypass Protect moves.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1033528332

Calcs on its typical checks:

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 310-366 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Darmanitan-Zen: 300-354 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (If it doesn't have Heavy Duty Boots, its likely a KO on Stealth Rocks). *It pains me to see this, but I have to be fair ;(

Corviknight itself is 2HKO'd and has to pray that it doesn't get Flinched, and while Haze Prankster is an option, sometimes it uses Volt Absorb, Flash Fire, and other abilities:

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 224-264 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is the vanilla Shell Smasher that we needed, and quite frankly, Unaware is not even a factor, let alone Fur Coat except on Darm-Z and a couple of others that resist STAB. #MoldyMoves

Oh, and for those interested in discovering Debz-OG here:
 

Storm Eagle

Banned deucer.
Been trying out Gen 8 BH for the past week. Surprisingly fun despite some of the cut legendaries. I think so far, the meta is starting to settle, and is fairly balanced outside of an oddball or two. I'd like to give my own thoughts on things.

New Pokemon

Zacian-C

This mon is hugely centralizing. It's like Game Freak took everything they said about balancing the game, threw it aside, and shit out a new Mega Mawile as a result. Except Zacian-C is better than Mega Mawile in almost every single way. It's broken in basically every single format its currently in. It's faster than every single Pokemon there is except for Ninjask, and is tied for highest Attack stat with Kyurem-Black (if you don't count Intrepid Sword...). Like, what the fuck? Even it's STABs are nigh god-tier. Play Rough isn't the best move due to its 90% accuracy, but it's more than made up for with it having STAB Sunsteel, Double Iron Bash (bonus points if you hax your way through a check), and even the Behemoth moves. It's Steel-type STAB is extremely reliable, and more powerful than Play Rough. The one downside this Pokemon is supposed to have, being forced to hold a useless item is hardly relevant in a metagame where items as a whole have less of an impact due to mons basing most of their strength in their movesets and abilities. And Zacian's ability, Intrepid Sword, is already meta and used on various Pokemon as it is. I almost feel hindered by not having this Pokemon on my team, and I feel like I need dedicated checks/counters to it just to be able to win games.

I frankly don't see this Pokemon staying in the tier for very long before getting suspected.

Dragapult

I'm not going to dance around with my words here. This Pokemon is increasingly standing out to me as a shitmon that people use because they want a replacement for their normgar sets. Looking at Dragapult, this Pokemon is the exact opposite of Zacian-C. Whereas Zacian-C has almost no downsides, a great type, and great STAB, Dragapult has absolutely nothing notable about it other than being a fast Ghost-type. What good is high speed if its incapable of breaking past even moderately bulky things, let alone the stuff it does outspeed? 120 base Attack is pretty mediocre. People already complain how weak Marshadow is, and Marshadow has a better offensive type and a slightly higher base Attack (125). This Pokemon doesn't even have the luxury of being bulkier than Mega Gengar. It has slightly better Defense, but slightly worse Special Defense. Otherwise, basically identical bulk wise. That weakness to Fridge and Pixilate mons sure is helping Dragapult here too.

What made Mega Gengar good was it's amazing base 170 Special Attack that allowed it to actually threaten things instead of moderately annoying your opponent by forcing them to switch to a wall only to PP stall Dragapult. Mega Gengar could entrain mons then set up to become a legitimate force to be reckoned with, meanwhile Dragapult needs to set up to even be threatening. Have a Pokemon with Haze or Strength Sap, and it's more than likely a counter to Dragapult. This mon should be ranked low on the VRs when it is implemented.

Darmanitan-Galar-Z

Darmanitan-GZ is a fast Pokemon done right. It's a hard hitting Fire-type, and Ice-type is great offensively too. This Pokemon can run a Scarf to completely body Zacian-C and various other Steel-types with V-create, and its versatile enough that it can serve as either a breaker or a revenge killer. It's not terribly hard to improof either. Completely unused on ladder as far as I see, and it's honestly a shame. This Pokemon would probably be used over most Fire-types except for Red Orb Groudon if it were in Gen 7...

I've had good success with Darmanitan-GZ and I honestly think it's viable and underestimated by most ladder players.

Dusk Mane / Solgaleo

Dusk Mane: Why use dusk mane when you can use the bad fairy doggo lmao

In all seriousness I had originally used it as a bulky pivot, but even in that regard it wasn't very good. Psychic-types seem underwhelming, and it doesn't have anything over other Steel-types except for STAB Photon. Which Solgaleo also gets, and Solgaleo is a better wall already. Even as a slow Steel-type it's outclassed, Melmetal exists...

It's not good. But it's not bad either. I don't really have much more of an opinion on it.

Solgaleo: Still a great wall, arguably even better in Gen 8 BH. While it lost it's exclusive Z-Move, and Z-Moves in general, its not too bothered by that. Flash Fire Solgaleo is still solid, and it's a pretty good overall wall. It stands out from Melmetal by having extra Special Defense and being a lot faster.

Much better than Dusk Mane in Gen 8...

Melmetal
1200px-809Melmetal.png
From the very moment Let's Go released, I saw his signature move and base stats and I knew this Pokemon would easily find a spot in Balanced Hackmons, and it's signature move would be one of the best there is. Double Iron Bash is a 120 BP move that can break sashes and has a 30% chance to flinch each hit. I don't know what the fuck Game Freak was smoking when they made Let's Go, but Melmetal hasn't changed since its inception in Let's Go, and it's a fantastic Pokemon in Gen 8 BH. I will admit I underestimated it when I first saw it. I almost lost multiple games because this Pokemon carries the weight of others. Its got respectable Attack and titanic Defense in Gen 8 BH standards. This Pokemon can and will wall Zacian-C, and is one of the few Pokemon capable of doing it. It's slow enough to be one of the best pivots there is, and I even saw someone using it in Trick Room effectively in mid latter.

Melmetal will likely be A-tier in the VR at the absolute minimum, S-tier even.

Shedinja

Somehow Game Freak gave it yet another toy to play with in the form of Heavy Duty Boots. As if Goggles in Gen 6 and Pads in Gen 7 weren't enough, now Shed has another item it can use. That's not the worst part about Shedinja. It's the fact that there's basically no good checks to it any more. Dragapult needs a turn to entrain Shed to even attack it since Moongeist is Normal-type with Normalize and Dragapult can't switch in safely since it has paper defenses. Lunala is in an even worse situation with a 4x weakness to Ghost. There's Aegislash, but Aegislash is growing steadily less appealing to me, even without its nerf considered. Dusclops is a passive mon who does absolutely nothing beyond tank, set/clear hazards, pivot, and maybe spread status. Neither Aegislash nor Dusclops will beat Shedinja without Will-o-Wisp, which sucks especially if it misses or the opponent switches in a Magic Bouncer (because let's be real, what is Aegislash/Dusclops going to do besides use status moves?).

A new buff in the form of Heavy Duty Boots with Giratina and Mega Sableye not being in the tier, it's not hard to see why Shedinja is clearly in a better spot even when it was already good in Gen 7. I won't be surprised if Shedinja gets suspected at one point.

I don't really have any other opinion on any other Pokemon. I know Corviknight is good. Kyurem-Black is the same old mon we know and love. Zekrom is a dominant force in the metagame now. Other than that, the meta isn't developed enough for gimmickier Pokemon to rise up and find niches like in Gen 7 yet. We will just have to wait for that. And I need more experience with the metagame to have a more solid insight on things. I already know most people here know better than I do about Gen 8 BH.

Quick thoughts on new abilities and such:
Intrepid Sword: probably overpowered, would not be surprised if it gets banned.
Ice Scales: the ability BH didn't think they wanted until now. the special defense version of fur coat, amazingly good in use of improofing.
Perish Body: while others might see this as useless or gimmicky, I think it has potential with suicide leads. lead a perish body mon, sack it down the line to a Zacian-C or something and put that on a timer. now you can come in and start setting up as the opponent switches out.
Punk Rock: i've seen people interested in it. just seems like a more generalized -ate ability that's easier to improof.

Dynamax Cannon: a decent replacement for core enforcer minus the 8 PP.
Dragon Darts: finally, it took Game Freak this fucking long to make a good reliable physical Dragon-type move for BH.
No Retreat: worse than I originally thought, do not use this
Bolt Beak and Fishious Rend: completely meta defining moves. even as neutral coverage they hurt hard with most Pokemon that have half a decent physical attack.
Body Press: i admit i don't really understand this move well enough to know how good it is, and prefer using Close Combat because of that.
Pyro Ball: pretty good coverage move for those who don't want to run V-create or Flare Blitz for their downsides.
Behemoth moves: They're alright I guess, I still prefer Sunsteel Strike over them, and Double Iron Bash is situationally better than both.

Overall, I like the meta, but I feel like there might end up being less options to use in Gen 8 due to the dex cut. There's still a lot of unexplored stuff, and I'm sure some people here could find use in mons that are overlooked.
 
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