Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
we (council) are considering quickbanning calyrex shadow due to reasons discussed above, this is a conspiracy created by me to make my sample team more visible by making others illegal. if you guys have thoughts on this idea be sure to let us know and we will get back to you in no more than 30-60 business days
I will make a big post about the tour i participated + teams i used and general bh stuff so i use this thread.I ended with a mediocre 2-3 record,which could easily have been 5-0 or 0-5 due to games being luck reliant with matchups and crits/misses parylisys and general mons stuff so i try not dwell a lot on that.I will say im thankfull i got picked
WEEK 1 Team https://pokepast.es/1ed2cb580ec99733
I knew going to the match that poison heal mons with boost and status move are very strong ,status beats the usual standard cheks and boosting beats everything else,ph imposter is a decent answer but u need someone to slow pivot to it for longer games and that someone doesnt always take boosted hits or status moves well.Since i struggled with a consistent counter to that style i just brought 2 of these mons in palkia for its 150spa plus stab fishious since mixed sets are hard to wall and gigas is just gigas.Evio chansey was used to gain tempo 1-2 times and scout,av xern for pivoting and lack of weaknesses and bounce ferro plus wish unaware zyg for improofing plus dealing with opposing hazards/status moves my opponent uses frequently and zyg for healing others like evio chansey and an extra soft check to boosters
The game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1237784806-2rqblgbvfbndli4rl7xlprp1mcju39vpw
This one went my way,getting the correct moves on switchins and the pars when i needed,plus matchup favoured me with palkia having no good answers and opposing team letting me heal imposter.When zarude died to a risky switchin i had big advantage i could lose only to crits or me playing bad.Overall poison heal plus status plus boost worked rly well and i cant help but wonder if i would do better if i used it more since i didnt face much toxic orb imp and HO teams
WEEK 2 Team https://pokepast.es/83d3d0cb279b5055
For this one i was expecting an offensive team possibly weak to imposter pikatchu and a fast paced playstyle.Torb blissey since i didnt wana auto lose vs ph boosters,tailwind prank and pika imp could do some work,zygrade for pivoting and scouting,Etern can get a kill or 2 easily and prank corrosive gas to remove memory and drive items even before electrify is used that the imposters would have trouble to deal with.One added benefit it can have on knock off is the extra 32 pp which i handt considered prior to the game but it can be usefull for trapping sets.*Eternatus here was initally kyu-w hence the weird pikatchu set that i forgot to change :/
The game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1240451286-twt7pvexjascu0iqaf4eo6cyd9yzncppw
This one didnt go my way.I faced stall with 2 trapping mons simply not having enough heals to deal with them.My opponent made a risky play sacking chansey before scouting my sets,at this point if giratina had healing move i would win but it didnt so it was doomed with zyg dead.I could maybe get a double crit but that didnt happen so i lost.Not much to say but generally its better to lose on matchup rather than with speed tie or miss and crits.To the next one
WEEK 3 Team https://pokepast.es/b439afb0ee55addf
Here the inital idea was a ph boosting calyrex but after some calcs i thought this was the most threatening set,especially vs steel mons my opponent liked using.I chose mag as a prankster mainly to let calyrex come to punish imposter trying to heal or court change back.Modest caly was needed for better chances to 2hko zyg and phero for speed control since modest caly
The game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1247153289
This one i was kinda happy with my play.I played the early game safe trying to scout sets.Zygrade was the toughest one since i had to bounce between magearna and yveltal to deal with it.Calyrex could do some dmg if i got good predictions before mag run out of pp but mag got crit by a magma storm and then hit by it again and died.At that point zygrade would beat the long run so i tried to use the double spike i had to clean up with the breakers.After spiked got removed i tried to use chansey and yveltal to do dmg but i needed good predictions and good rng but i didnt get those so i lost in the end.Again.
WEEK 4
Sadly i dont have a paste for here.Basically i didnt prep anything,i used a ladder team with comatose for entrain shenanigans/fur coat/ice sclaes/torb/shell double imp/prank with one or 2 tweaks to better fit tour play.I was kinda losing motivation to try find cool techs plus my ladder stalls would probably auto win the last 2 games and i feel most comfortable using those so i decided to bring it.Thats pretty much it.
The game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1254679894
This was a rather sad game.My opponent probably made some mistakes i dont wana dwell on too much.For my part i considered fishious for palkia,what i didnt consider is a defensive palkia doesnt 2hko zama even with speed boost so losing yveltal was rly poor play by me.I was also lucky to dodge a v create that could make me lose if it hit but if i switched then zama could get impostered and that would be rly bad for my team.Overall how this game came down to misses and imposter speed ties is kinda disenheartening.At least i got back to 2-2 and didnt wana end up with a negative score.
WEEK 5 https://pokepast.es/a55c9b12f20a018d
This team was based on an idea i had before week 1 of the tour,but at that point i felt it was too risky and cheesy and didnt want my game to be decided like this so ended up not using it.In the end i rly felt obliged to test it so i brought it for the tiebreaker game.I struggled a bit with the items,initially etern was HDB gira and goon was lefovers regigigas and calyrex item was a questionmark.Ended up with etern since it removes tspikes,its imposter is scared by calyrex more and goon to not have to mind guess between haze and topsy.Calyrex could get lefties to deal with wisp or hdb to deal with hazards but those get revealed which i didnt like.Lum and mental herb were considered but i dont think they would see value,leppa was considered to outpp haze but the 10 pp is rarely gonna matter,ended up with brightpowder.If sth with u trn or spectral gets trapped u still play guessing games the turn u baton pass.Brightpowder with 3 plus evasion gives you above 50% percent dodge to swap normalize back and bp safely with spectral being a normal move again.Goon also fakely seems like a tinted calyrex improof which gave me an edge to use him.Prank dbond and the pika/zacc core can deal with teams if the baton chain fails,and the prank dbond can at least trade 1 for one if it cant sweep.Volc is just and improof
The game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1259024468
*For starters i wanna say i remaked that game to make it public,and we had done that with my opponent week 3 as well,not week 2 as i wrongly claimed
Another terrble game by me.Teleport gigas with protect move was very threatening.In retrospect etern or volc should have an ability removal.Gigas lacked a boosting move which meant i didnt auto lose.I should protect zacian hp and yet i got it spectraled twice.The bp chain was probably not gonna work vs that gigas so i should try get him with dbond and try win with zacian nuzzle pars and pika wining speed ties but i tunneled.At least i brought my wacky idea to a serious game avoiding any potential what ifs
Overall thought about the meta,myself and tour play
Feeling rather confident and excited initially,the positive emotins gradually started weakening.The meta is weird.Ph mons are too strong right now.Their best counters are using HO teams with gambit and belly drum spam.If poison heal was gone then spore and paralysis would be more broken and games would be even uglier.Stall is also in a bad spot due to being unable to take numerous volt/utrns without runing out of recovery pp.So even with stall game is decided by 50/50 guesses what is the choiced mon gonna click.Tour play isnt very rewarding.Too little games and too much rng and luck deciding the outcome rather than actual play and teambuilding.Maybe a ladder tour would be a better form of skill expression but i doubt many ppl would want to participate in one.On the positive side i feel there are more unexplored strategies in bh and ppl are scared to use in tours or dont wana bother inovating.We still got some of them at least.This should be all for now,maybe i will address more stuff later
Description: Disable while denting, Disarm with walling, open up several forms of passive damage, all while maintaining momentum as you sweep their weakened and statused remaining last resorts. *Gulp*
How to Use: Inspired by another user's non-optimal version (wrong form, not the best moves), I upgraded to Cramorant-Gorging to achieve an unremovable ability that both deals 25% damage and paralyzes any foe that deals (even non-contact) damage; while contact moves receive 41.66% flat damage before you even use an attack. . Typically if you aren't using Endure, Flip Turn allows you to pivot the turn you leave your foe around 1/2 health, keeping up your momentum and an easy KO / forced switch the following turn. With your check safely pivoted in, you can decide between your switch-in likely being Pheromosa to maintain momentum via U-Turn, or ensuring their switches are not free with Eternatus to easily set-up hazards. Being able to send in Cramorant when your foe sends in a Rapid Spin user can easily double-up on the status and passive damage delivered, and means pivoting to Pheromosa allows you to easily dent to gradually wear down the foe's team, be it HO or defensive. Pheromosa's Glacial Lance secures its 1HKO on Zygarde-C, Wicked Blow's 1HKOs Calyrex-S. and Close Combat will force out non Fur Coat Zamazenta-C.
While keeping momentum is key, so is reducing your foe's own momentum, which is why Anchor Shot Doublade, and Thousand Waves Prankster Zygarde-C can easily trap. Zygarde-C also benefits from he massive PP of Haze, while both can prevent Rapid Spin either via Ghost-type or by a speedy Court Change before the Rapid Spin can happen, waiting to return hazards back once the Rapid Spinner cannot remove it. Eternatus becomes an effective tank, resisting many physical moves (V-Create, Bolt Beak, Fighting, Fishous Rend, etc.), while Ice Scales makes it surprisingly effective at taking even super effective hits, with Core Enforcer and Volt Switch removing ability effects before pivoting. Lastly, Yveltal can work wonders to mixed sweep, and potentially trap Imposter if the foe gets greedy, while hitting common defensive options like Zygarde-C, Giratina, and opposing Yveltal with its coverage. Doublade and Yveltal have excellent synergy, as does Zygarde-C, making them great switch-ins to their teammates' counters. Ultimately you focus on racking up status and early passive damage, tanking any opposing set-up, and HO, then trapping and gradually leaving dents for Yveltal or Pheromosa to finish off their now slower, and weakened team.
Weaknesses: Glacial Lance threatens members of the team, nevertheless, Doublade handles it well, although it can get threatened by V-create and Wicked Blow. Pheromosa can defeat Normalize Calyrex-S, but it may have trouble pivoting in, unless its coming from Cramorant-Gorging, which blocks Entrainment, and punishes any attacks. Anchor Shot on Doublade can threaten, and trap Xerneas, with Ice Scales proving useful against even its Fire / Ground coverage, and steal set-up with Spectral Thief, but -Ate Boomburst does threaten Zygarde-C and Yveltal, while Extreme Speed can handle Pheromosa. Zacian-C can be a threat to Yveltal, and Zygarde-C, but Doublade can Spectral Thief, Phermosa can finish off chipped ones in mid-late game, and Cramorant-Gorging can simply come in, and paralyze / dent, while pivoting to set-up Yveltal to KO with Power Trip. Lastly, Zygarde-C can remove boosts and use Thousand Wavesto prevent it from switching non-pivots, and Eternatus can take V-Creates. and Bolt Beaks, resists it and can Shore Up stall, and set-up Spikes, before it pivots to its preferred check of choice.
Effectiveness: This team has an 12/15 win ratio, and doesn't fail to maintain wins even against the same foes in rematches. The key here is everyone has a unique role, and no Pokemon feels too similar to its teammates, while momentum is key in keeping you one step ahead of the opponents. I have to say Cramorant-Gorging is the best use of a sacrificial switch-in, and if it can deal paralysis, 25% damage (or 41.67% with Rocky Helmet) at least twice, and can deter HO from even wanting to use an attack move (including pivots), it leaves them in a state of flux, and has served its purpose well. From here, once they feel forced out, I can begin the hazards setting, and pivoting damage to gradually wear down their offensive and defensive options. The opponent usually has the best chance to win early on in the game, but by mid-game, it tilts in my favor, as I meticulously wear down, and force switches, leaving the foe in a compromised position. Goal - be patient, don't feel rushed, take your time, and slowly let their panic be their downfall.
Thoughts on Calyrex-SR: I would support the council in quick banning it. It puts a significant amount of pressure at the team builder level, and the checks to it are numbered. This forces many team to have a similar build style as you'll frequently find yourself building similar style teams because you have to support similar mons (Yveltal). There are very few regenvest pokemon which can eat a neutral Astral Barrage, with AV Zyg being literally the only one which can do this (AV Registeel gets 2hkoed which is ridiculous) and then we have Moongeist Beam which just bypasses Ice Scales forcing the use of either dark or normal scales pokemon. Normalize and Electrify sets can be seen frequently to break through its normal checks, which forces a team to have a secondary check to these other sets, which further strains team building. And personally for me, this one pokemon genuinely makes dislike the current state of BH. With it gone, I feel like the variety of teams we will see will greatly increase and the meta will become more healthy.
Sample Team Submission:
Team Name: Lets Dance
Description: Balanced team, with two complementary anti-meta special breakers(Blacephalon & Xerneas), solid defensive backbone to soft check the majority of the meta(AV Zygarde, Eviolite Imposter, prank Registeel), and solid longevity with pheal Calyrex-Ice and AV Zygarde)
How to Use: In the early a solid rule of thumb is to scout sets with Imposter Chansey, and Zygarde, while searching for switchins to safely get in either Blacephalon and Xerneas frealy. Generally you should be clicking Volt-Switch early on to scout, unless going for a hard read. After sufficient scouting, try to safely activate Calyrex-Ice's toxic orb. Calyrex-Ice should be used to put pressure on defensive walls by wearing them down, setting up spikes to allows Xerneas and Blacephalon to score 2hkoes or OHKoes on incoming pokemon. Once the opposing team has been properly scouted, you should make it your priority to keep momentum, by keeping Blacephalon and Xerneas in the game as much as possible, spamming Volt Switch with them, and fishing for opportunities to KO. Choice Scarf Blacephalon should be used to offensively pressure Calyrex-SR and Zacian-Crowned. Xerneas is used as the primary breaker. Against stall, you should abuse Calyrex-Ice's crazy high pp to put a lot of pressure, and against offense try to slow down the opposition with Imposter and Zygarde to get one of the breakers in for free. Note: Calyrex-Ice is used to 2hko Zamazenta-Crowned and Regigigas with Low Kick. (try to burn Zamazenta-Crowned before comitting to Low Kick though)
Weaknesses: The team is weak to teams with a Regenvest + Scales core, as well as teams with strong Poison heal cores. Ho-Oh can give the team some trouble but Diamond Storm on Xerneas with minimal chip is used to KO it. Poison Heal Xerneas is a massive pain for the team, as it makes progress against it very effectively. A combination of Calyrex-Ice, Zygarde, and Registeel can soft check, but it will still often put work against it. Zacian-Crowned can also make progress against this team. Generally a combination of Imposter and Blacephalon is used to win late game against it. Other than that the team is relatively solid, and is pretty flexible to suit most play styles.
Effectiveness: I have gone around 20-0 with this team on ladder as it took me from 82% GXE --> 90.2% GXE. I have beaten others using omwc teams with it but have also lost to a couple omwc teams. I have had general success with it in the Daily Ladders, and challenging friends with it, but it does lose every once in a while against strong teams, though as a ladder team, it was extremely successful and due to how flexible it is and the cushioning Prankster + Imposter provides I believe it should be relatively easy to use.
Replays: vs skylake vs dimrah (omwc team he used against willdbeast) vs champleon vs Onyx Onix stall vs Damflame (shows how a team w/ a strong regen core can give my team a lot of trouble, almost broke through but pheal Xern in the endgame was too much) vs Dragonillis
Considering that this year's BH Open is in less than a week, I would suggest that a quickban on Calyrex-Shadow should be made asap. A lot of voices in the community has already spoken out to prove it rather unhealthy for the current meta game, and with the new emergence of Techno Blast Normalize sets plus the less explored danger of Electrify sets, I think my opinion on it has also become more stronger for a ban. (I made a post a while ago saying that I would lean towards no ban on Calyrex-SR, but a suspect test should be held.)
The fact that its two most popular sets, Specs and Normalize, have entirely different checks/ cover each other's checks extremely well is the main factor that makes me change my opinion recently. Not to mention that Specs itself kinda require 2 mons to check it already. Moreover, the inability to figure out which set it is on preview just makes it worse, and if you don't have a protect move to scout, it can easily dent a hole on your team for predicting its set incorrectly.
I will use this team, which has been pretty consistent on ladder, as an example. I rely on AV Zygarde to check Specs Calyrex, which is able to avoid a 2HKO from all Calyrex except sets with Ice Beam, threaten with Nuzzle/ Thief, and U-turn to Phero if it decides to stay in. However if I hard switch into a Normalize Calyrex using Entrainment, I'm forced to switch into Zamazenta to Corrode away its Drive before hard switching again to Giratina to fully wall that set. For Electrify sets, I have to either pp stall with Groudon or Zamazenta, and not having Teleport to bring in Pheromosa is a big downside to this team. Ho-Oh can also live a hit if needed, and KO back with LO Thief. I'd like to think that my team fares decently vs Caly, having protect to scout, prank corrosive gas, av pivot, speed control and an emergency tank, though you can see that literally 5 of 6 slots have been dedicated/ altered to check it well (I can run lefties entrain on zama, zacc over phero, etc).
In general, Specs beats nearly all Prankster Gas and Bounce checks to Normalize, while Normalize beats all Ice Scales, RegenVest and PHeal (soft) checks to Specs. I think Calyrex-Shadow is just way too restrictive both in the builder and preview rn, with its unparalleled SpA and Spe, there's still so much to explore behing these two sets. Since the Open is around the corner, once again, some tiering measures against Calyrex-Shadow should be taken.
Will make another post for sample hopefully soon. I've lost a lot faith on the above team compared to when I first made it, unfortunately (it's still decent).
I truly could never find a good reason as to why imposter chansey has been banned. It is by far the most restrictive mon in the entire metagame and forces players to design pokemon for the sole person of taking it out. There has already been precedent that a single pokemon that force other teams to built around/for it are too restrictive on the meta game and should be banned. Many counters require some form of set up or have trouble finding any use other then just defeating imposter chansey, not to mention how a lot of imposter chansey teams are prepared to defeat your counters.
It has made the meta unhealthy and restrictive where even if you make the right plays you can still lose. I see no reason why it is not being suspect tested and banned already
I truly could never find a good reason as to why imposter chansey has been banned. It is by far the most restrictive mon in the entire metagame and forces players to design pokemon for the sole person of taking it out. There has already been precedent that a single pokemon that force other teams to built around/for it are too restrictive on the meta game and should be banned. Many counters require some form of set up or have trouble finding any use other then just defeating imposter chansey, not to mention how a lot of imposter chansey teams are prepared to defeat your counters.
It has made the meta unhealthy and restrictive where even if you make the right plays you can still lose. I see no reason why it is not being suspect tested and banned already
This question has been addressed in every single iteration of the "why hasn't this been banned" discussion yet. It boils down to the fact that you build the sets, and you completely control everything that the imposter can do. This puts BH teambuilding into a unique position that isn't really commonly thought about in any other format, where you need to make sure that your own team is balanced enough to deal with the rest of your mons as imposters (imposter-proofing, or commonly improofing). At this point, imposter has been around for the entirety of the competitive BH metagame ever since Gen 5, and because of its trait at only doing what your mons can do, on top of the fact that you can easily prepare for its options because you yourself brought them into the battle, it is commonly seen as one of the largest balancing agents in BH.
Flint (the old tier leader) posted about it in this post here with the same sentiment. Imposter is one of BH's largest constants, and players need to be aware of this nuance in teambuilding if they're expecting to build competitive and consistent teams. The thing to remember is, as much as BH is a sandbox meta, it is nowhere near unlimited, and there need to be checks on common brokens and building styles for the meta to be healthy.
edit: I forgot to add, Imposters are also extremely limited. They want to do too many jobs that their item slot and 5pp limitation doesn't allow them to do. They're extremely consistent, but they will almost always have exploitable flaws depending on their item choice. For example, eviolite gives them more bulk while sacrificing the ability to switch out without being trapped and always being at risk for speed ties. Choice scarf guarantees outspeeding the opponent, but they are locked into 1 move and more easily exploitable. Shed shell gives them the option to switch out no matter what at the cost of bulk and speed. Toxic Orb helps with their poison heal matchup, but hurts everywhere else. Pikachu and other non-chansey line imposters are frail as fuck. All imposters eat shit vs bellyburdens and other self improofs unless they're running extremely niche sets. The list goes on and on.
Description: imo a solid defense against the current meta. Team makes use of stall tactics to cripple and counter opposing teams with Attack Titan (regigas) n Armoured Titan (zamazenta c) being the main strikeforce.
How to use your team: Your lead depends on the opponents team, if you suspect they have imposter, lead with the Cart Titan (umbreon) n knock off n glare then teleport to a poison healer. If the team looks physically threatening or has regifleki or zacian, lead with the Armoured Titan as he handles all non stab V creates well n from ho oh.
Slow n steady, feel out your opponent's team, look out for mons that set up hazards or boosts. Armoured Titan is best for this for just 1st turn clicking taunt to prevent setup, healing, imprison n teleport while locking the enemy in place n giving it some swift kicks. In this heavy meta, all those kicks do big damage.
Cart Titan is a Godsend against most if not all calyrex movesets, with glare to bring it down to your speed. Spread glares n use teleport to add pressure with the switching normally beong gigas or zam.
Beast Titan (Giratina) lives non specs attacks from calyrex n is there to stop stat boosting or lock mons into a move. Female Titan (Tapu fini) is the reshiram n pheal xern answer n spinner. Hint: rapid spin increasing speed actually makes her a bit threatening.
Jaw Titan (solgaleo) was a late addition as i was having trouble with pixilate xern and wanted rocks to deter frequent switches(in the replays I had toxic). He can trap itself n the Female Titan.
The Attack Titan is very standard n needs no explanation, just don't stay in on opposing zam Cs, swicth to the Armoured or Beast Titan to handle those
Weaknesses: Mixed attackers like palkia n reshiram n the odd extreme speed pixilate xern. Ive been thinking of adding flash fire ferrothorn to deal with it but haven't gotten around to it, probably replace either solgaleo or tapu fini for it.
Some mold breaker sets. Encore n taunt are key here.
Spore on Armoured, Beast or Cart Titan can really tilt the balance heavily in your opponent's favour. Abosrb as much as possible with the Female n Attack Titan.
Effectiveness: The team is very effective giving me a 36 Win streak and consistent wins. Keep your key defensive mons relatively healthy as if you lose 1, it will be difficult to get back. Tbh the Armoured Titan is the selling point of the team with its taunt that just shuts down teams.
Replays: I stopped saving replays but here they are
This question has been addressed in every single iteration of the "why hasn't this been banned" discussion yet. It boils down to the fact that you build the sets, and you completely control everything that the imposter can do. This puts BHteambuilding into a unique position that isn't really commonly thought about in any other format, where you need to make sure that your own team is balanced enough to deal with the rest of your mons as imposters (imposter-proofing, or commonly improofing). At this point, imposter has been around for the entirety of the competitive BH metagame ever since Gen 5, and because of its trait at only doing what your mons can do, on top of the fact that you can easily prepare for its options because you yourself brought them into the battle, it is commonly seen as one of the largest balancing agents in BH.
Flint (the old tier leader) posted about it in this post here with the same sentiment. Imposter is one of BH's largest constants, and players need to be aware of this nuance in teambuilding if they're expecting to build competitive and consistent teams. The thing to remember is, as much as BH is a sandbox meta, it is nowhere near unlimited, and there need to be checks on common brokens and building styles for the meta to be healthy.
edit: I forgot to add, Imposters are also extremely limited. They want to do too many jobs that their item slot and 5pp limitation doesn't allow them to do. They're extremely consistent, but they will almost always have exploitable flaws depending on their item choice. For example, eviolite gives them more bulk while sacrificing the ability to switch out without being trapped and always being at risk for speed ties. Choice scarf guarantees outspeeding the opponent, but they are locked into 1 move and more easily exploitable. Shed shell gives them the option to switch out no matter what at the cost of bulk and speed. Toxic Orb helps with their poison heal matchup, but hurts everywhere else. Pikachu and other non-chansey line imposters are frail as fuck. All imposters eat shit vs bellyburdens and other self improofs unless they're running extremely niche sets. The list goes on and on.
My main issue here is that the amount of item choices that you have mentioned. Yes they exploitable but there is no way of telling until they have already played their cards, forcing me to guess not to mention how imposter, espeically imposter chansey or blissey to me is simply just too polarizing. The idea that the outcome of a match can come down to a speed tie constantly or I don't know if its scarf not is simply just not fun and it makes it more about luck. Of course it not impossible to defeat, I am rather high in the ladder myself but I simply just dislike how much of a stranglehold it has on the meta. In the post you sent, they also discuss sturdy shedninja, a mon that people also argued was healthy cause it has players plan more carefully when making teams, which was later banned for a similar reason. It was too restrictive and players were forced to guess which set it was running. Different shedninja sets had different weakenesses but you couldn't tell what set it was running until it was too late. Obviously imposter is not on the same level but I feel like arguing that its existence is a healthy part of team building because it has the player make very careful team choices is rather far fetched when so many others mons have been banned for a similar reason. We both clearly agree that its restrictive to some extent but it seem the disagreement comes from if its healthy or not for the meta.
It's an astoundingly weak point to complain about Imposter's unpredictability in items despite you controlling everything else when the rest of the meta has unpredictability in not just items, but the ability slot and move slot as well. If unpredictability is something you struggle with, BH isn't the meta for you. Your improofs should be able to answer imposter regardless of the item as well, that's what makes teams good against Imposter.
It's an astoundingly weak point to complain about Imposter's unpredictability in items despite you controlling everything else when the rest of the meta has unpredictability in not just items, but the ability slot and move slot as well. If unpredictability is something you struggle with, BH isn't the meta for you. Your improofs should be able to answer imposter regardless of the item as well, that's what makes teams good against Imposter.
It seems you have completely missed the point. No one is complaining about unpredictability, the main issue here is that counters to imp sets can usually be defeated by just the same set but different items. things that should counter it can end being hurt by something as simple as an item change. The problem here is that its hard to prepare for every set and matches will sometimes be decided off of which set your opponent brought in rather then any sort skill. Plus you are only responding to one minor point when my main focus was discussing the restrictiveness and how its unhealthy for the meta, if you're going to ignore the rest of that then I see no reason to keep talking.
Well, sometimes they sorta can, but those are much rarer and mostly apply to self improofing, like a chill drive Chansey beating a normalize Calyrex or a toxic orb chansey beating PH mons, and it’s entirely predictable what sets can be beaten like this and this should have a backup check on the team for.
My main issue here is that the amount of item choices that you have mentioned. Yes they exploitable but there is no way of telling until they have already played their cards, forcing me to guess not to mention how imposter, espeically imposter chansey or blissey to me is simply just too polarizing. The idea that the outcome of a match can come down to a speed tie constantly or I don't know if its scarf not is simply just not fun and it makes it more about luck. Of course it not impossible to defeat, I am rather high in the ladder myself but I simply just dislike how much of a stranglehold it has on the meta. In the post you sent, they also discuss sturdy shedninja, a mon that people also argued was healthy cause it has players plan more carefully when making teams, which was later banned for a similar reason. It was too restrictive and players were forced to guess which set it was running. Different shedninja sets had different weakenesses but you couldn't tell what set it was running until it was too late. Obviously imposter is not on the same level but I feel like arguing that its existence is a healthy part of team building because it has the player make very careful team choices is rather far fetched when so many others mons have been banned for a similar reason. We both clearly agree that its restrictive to some extent but it seem the disagreement comes from if its healthy or not for the meta.
First of all, to address one of the larger misconceptions in this post, shed was banned coming into the new gen because of the addition of new and extremely viable options that pushed it over the edge (namely boots and players learning how to absolutely exploit it to the best of its potential at the end of the gen, see cityscapes' 2k elo bounce spam + shed team, sugarhigh's shed + gambit spam, BMOC style gars + sheds, etc). In that aspect, that post is out of date because the meta and strategies revolving around shed completely flipped on their head. However, the meta and strategies revolving around imp have mostly stayed constant, aside from the change in usage percent of shed shell and scarf maybe instead of the overwhelming majority of imps being eviolite.
Second, as much as I hate to say it, the majority of the BH community has the "we're used to it" bias and arguments like this aren't productive when imposter has been one of the most solid pillars of BH since its inception. Playing thousands of games between all of us throughout the last 4 gens, we have gotten used to the consistency offered by imposter, and the metagame would be more or less turned completely on its head with an imp ban. The consistency here is the main point as to why imp hasn't been banned in the past: from the lowest of low ladder to the most prestigious tournament finals, BH is one of the least predictable metas across this entire website. Imposter acts as counterplay to these extremely unpredictable situations, allowing you to scout your opponent's sets and adding another layer of depth to teambuilding and play to a format that would be akin to trying to hit a 90mph fastball with your eyes closed without it. Imposter is one of the largest counters to snowballing and the consistency it offers is unparalleled
It's an astoundingly weak point to complain about Imposter's unpredictability in items despite you controlling everything else when the rest of the meta has unpredictability in not just items, but the ability slot and move slot as well. If unpredictability is something you struggle with, BH isn't the meta for you. Your improofs should be able to answer imposter regardless of the item as well, that's what makes teams good against Imposter.
I quite dislike Volk's wording here, but his sentiment is right. I feel like you (tacocat) are arguing about a much smaller point that is just a side effect of having imposter in the meta while ignoring the fact that the format would look completely different and be even more unpredictable and inconsistent without it.
It seems you have completely missed the point. No one is complaining about unpredictability, the main issue here is that counters to imp sets can usually be defeated by just the same set but different items. things that should counter it can end being hurt by something as simple as an item change. The problem here is that its hard to prepare for every set and matches will sometimes be decided off of which set your opponent brought in rather then any sort skill. Plus you are only responding to one minor point when my main focus was discussing the restrictiveness and how its unhealthy for the meta, if you're going to ignore the rest of that then I see no reason to keep talking.
I think you missed Volk's point here. By removing imposter, you are removing any semblance of predictability in the format, and that is a much larger issue than someone's team struggling vs imposter because they don't know how to prep for it. At the end of the day, I can't really think of any item choice that Imposter can run that can cause it to overcome every single one of its flaws. Period. There is ALWAYS a drawback to its item, and if the item isn't the drawback, then they only have 20 turns max of PP to use before they need to switch out and try again.
Alongside this, "its hard to prepare for every set and matches will sometimes be decided off of which set your opponent brought in rather then any sort skill" is an extremely flawed argument. First, an opponent's item choice and teambuilding is skill. They can use an item choice to overcome their own team's weaknesses. Second, you're saying you are not prepping for an option, and that option is beating you. If I built a team that completely did not account for ground types, and I lose to ground types, I can not complain about ground types beating my team. It just sounds like you haven't figured out imposterproofing yet. I don't think anyone truly has a full grasp on imposterproofing yet and some of us have been around for 6+ years. But because you can build your own team, you should know what counters it. Not doing so is simply lacking metagame skill.
pretty much this. The item is the only thing that really changes Imp's strategy, and there are much more consistent ways to improof something than going for a speed tie. I'd suggest you try and look into self-improofing sets with moves like Techno Blast or Anchor Shot.
Well, sometimes they sorta can, but those are much rarer and mostly apply to self improofing, like a chill drive Chansey beating a normalize Calyrex or a toxic orb chansey beating PH mons, and it’s entirely predictable what sets can be beaten like this and this should have a backup check on the team for.
Sets like these lack consistency in the first place and fall flat on their faces when trying to be viable in the widespread format, missing out on concrete benefits that are always active like scarf, eviolite, or shell. They can be used (we both know this) but are you really going to bring these when you can bring something infinitely more consistent?
Edit on the QT point: if you know who you’re playing against and prepping this is completely fine and I love these sets. But bringing these to ladder where you don’t know what’s coming and your best option being a speed tie or trying to outstall PP is a death sentence
With World Cup done I guess I should post some teams I worked on. Overall went 2-2 had some bad luck but I super enjoyed the building in this new meta and felt my creativity renewed with this dlc. (Btw click on the sprites for pokepast of each team!) I also feel pretty happy because I feel I definitely influenced a new style and approach to the current meta beyond just bulky pivot balance!
Final Gambit V1 H-O VS Minogod94
I really wanted to build with Final Gambit because I felt it had the most potential in this tier in the current meta. The ability to trade down and "simplify" games is something I really enjoy in Balanced Hackmons and provides an avenue for hyper offenses to shine. Essentially most people if it is there first time playing me (and don't know what I'm known for) won't expect final gambit or offense so I decided to bring this offense against Minogod. It ended up doing well as he didnt really have a gameplan for the Xerneas set and it ended up just winning nearly by itself. Overall the entire team is centered around sweeping with either gigas, zamazenta w/ unburden, or marshadow triage. The dragons are to trade in the early game and xerneas is the back up priority if things get too outta control. Overall its a solid team that has insane upside when the opponent does not know the sets.
Final Gambit V2 (Unburden Spam) H-O VS Chessking
Against Chessking I wanted to use another Final Gambit Spam but this time with Unburden as well. I reused the Zamazenta set as it wasn't revealed in the last week. I decided to add an extra layer to the Final gambit core by making the zygarde Unburden with belly drum to add a little twist. Essentially it allows Zygarde to belly drum on the switch to an imposter or weakened pokemon to absorb the final gambit and instead get a trade of atleast two pokemon. In this match it worked perfectly, as I was able to bait out the zygarde-c of his own that took the giratina final gambit and was able to break his team from there. Overall an extremely fun team with interesting offense approaches such as simple calyrex-ice and Unburden Belly Drum Ho-oH
Rain Balance VS Volknerd
I really wanted to build a rain team because I felt Palkia was potentially broken under rain as it is able to utilize a mixed set that is extremely hard to switch into unless one had a water immunity on one's team. It worked well in the beginning being able to eliminate the zygarde-c, unfortunately I was not able to capitalize as well in this match due to some unlucky paras. Though I got unlucky I definitely could have played better in this matchup. Overall I really recommend building and experimenting with rain as it is an extremely tough playstyle to play against if you are not expecting it before hand. Calyrex-Shadow can be replaced by any breaker or sweeper that is self-sufficient (no imposter prevention support) of one's choosing now that calyrex is banned!
Dragon's Maw Final Gambit VS Volknerd
I couldn't think of what to bring so I decided to balls to the wall with sticky-webs + Dragon's Maw Dragons. Unfortunately the sticky webs kinda backfired in this game. Overall the game ends up being a speed tie to decide the game which I can live with. Was a fun game and don't regret anything other than choosing to not put imprison on the palkia. Updated the team with Imprison to ensure a better imposter matchup. Overall a fun team and am fine with the result.
Bonus Teams:
Rain Gambit
This team is extremely fun final gambit spam w/ rain team. Essentially you trade down until you are left with palkia and marshadow and sweep from there. If they ever bring in their blissey or chansey to take a final gambit they will auto lose to palkia as their dragon energy will no longer do enough. Overall it is an extremely fun team that abuses final gambit to nearly its maximum potential (imo), and should generate a win if they do not know or expect what will happen. A great example of how this team works
Horses Gambit H-O
Anyways I hope any of these builds helps individuals to continue to innovate in the tier!!!
here are my teams i built for omwc, they're not very good and probably worse now calyrex is banned... but w/e. honestly i've had no idea how to make teams all gen and it's showed lol
the other teams i used stresh built or i made in 5 mins so i wont share those
https://pokepast.es/723c3b7fd18c2676
This one is kinda alright as an idea I think, except its p hard to improof moldy kyub and the team has some weird problems like xern is a huge pain if it gets impostered, ice scales calyrex ice is kinda bad and dialga needs the orb thingy to actually do its job of killing xern. Basically I thought bringing teravolt kyub would be funny cos then i could say "oh no why is this teravolt" and it's actually a pretty solid breaker with para support. Try using it with that dumb para bird or something idk. Could probably be V-create instead of pblades too if you have a better improof.
https://pokepast.es/fba36382f893d2b5
Basically at this point I'd played completely terribly 3 games in a row so I just wanted a matchup win, so I brought drum yvel in the hope he kept bringing prank topsy instead of haze but then he had haze and a fcer that beat it. Ended up being the only game I played mostly well though ironically.
Thanks to some great submissions, the Sample Teams are finally updated! This is long overdue, but was pretty tough to accomplish due to fairly constant metagame changes like the Intrepid Sword and Calyrex-Shadow bans. Congrats to cityscapes, Champion Leon, DarkRisingRay, XxSevagxX, and Onyx Onix 7 for having your teams make it! Everyone keep up the great teambuilding and feel free share a team or set you're liking in the current meta.
Oh boy, complaining about Imposter. Good to see some things never change. On another note, it is I, Churro. I'm here today to talk to you about our lord and savior, Metrosexual.
Admittedly, I haven't played too much BH since Natdex died and Gen 8 banned Caly, but I came up with this set while helping XxSevagxX teambuild, and it unironically turned out to be pretty heat. He'd wanted to use a pix set, and while his recent Specs one is pretty nice, this time around he didn't want to be choice locked. I randomly suggested Metronome, but after testing, it turned out to be a solid choice, and after more play, us and several SR members realized that it's actually dope.
The Template:
My Gay Husband When (Xerneas) @ Metronome
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Coverage/Utility
- Strength Sap
- Rapid Spin
(Espeed with -spdef instead of -atk nature is a viable option. a loser apparently posted a sample set featuring specthief in the second slot. Other solid options include beak/rend, nuzzle, scald, koff, magma storm, volt switch, thunder cage, and more. If you're not running an espeed set, pretty much every stat is too valuable to sacrifice, and the loss of power on a physical is somewhat mitigated by metronome slowly ramping up your damage.)
Strengths:
- Ability to Fortnite dance all over Ho-Oh, the main blanket answer to Xern sets. While Beak, Nuzzle, and Thunder Cage can get stuffed by the random Volt Absorb Ho-Oh running around, Rend can break through pretty easily while also being a nicely splashable coverage move in general. Additionally, while unboosted BB only deals roughly 20% to +SpDef Ho-Oh, some chip combined with a couple Metro boosts pushing you to 30% or more means that Ho-Oh will actually have to be careful with its health pool when switching in.
- Combining offense and utility is always solid, and while Gen 8 has a lot that is either lackluster or negative to many players' minds, the Rapid Spin buff in combination with Metronome enables Xern to effectively set up one Quiver Dance without actually running that move. You can clear hazards, run any of a wide selection of coverage and utility moves, and hit decently hard even with unboosted Boomburst. It's just a flexible set with a lot of adaptability.
- Pix spin not only has the nice effect of bypassing spinblocking, but in concert with metronome, can deal surprisingly decent damage in stall situations. Some random wall will try to get in your way, only to have its recover PP stalled out by Spin, and you'll come out the other end with a +6 speed Xern. Metronome also enables Boomburst to get past certain walls, especially on the switch. You'll deal 40ish% at minimum to +SpDef Zam, but when they think they can recover and eventually hit you back, Metro BB kills them with ever-increasing damage, and in this case, you'll come out with an already-boosted Boomburst ready to go.
- A not-too-trashy matchup against Imposter. Assuming you've already got off one or two Boombursts, you'll be dealing chunks to it right off the bat. They have to be careful on the switch because an unboosted BB can deal as much as 40%, so depending on the imp set, and with smart play, you might be able to just straight up dumpster them before they can hit you back. It's definitely no Normgar in terms of being self improof, but you do have a potential answer to imposter while minimizing its value since they don't have Metronome themselves.
Weaknesses:
-As with all living beings, it is weak to the absolute gigachad that is Purple Frog
- The main weakness of this Xern is a byproduct of its playstyle; since you normally want to stay in to rack up Metro boosts, you're susceptible to random status, along with koff, and since ladder can be a complete clusterfuck, this can work against you.
- Since you'll be ramping up your damage with your actual moves themselves, you may run out of PP before being able to finally break through a target, or be left without enough afterwards to have as much impact as you may otherwise want. This mostly applies to Boomburst, since it'll often be your main source of damage, but while 16 PP isn't terrible, you'll need to be smart in certain matchups
- Sometimes, Xern just isn't strong enough to bust through, but in all fairness, the more common Pheal Xern also wouldn't be able to break through in many of these cases
This isn't to say that Pheal Xern is trash or anything, as it definitely does still have its advantages and strengths. Overall, though, I've found Metronome Xern to be more flexible and useful. It's a fun set with a lot of potential, so feel free to use it yourself and see if you like it!
Metrosexual
Mama Luigi
Metro Man
1982
Ragyo
Conk and Bowl Torsion
alright, been wanting to post on these for a while but here goes:
i think it's time to get rid of the broken moves. we've been having to balance the meta around them for so long that at this point, i think it's safe to say that they are currently the main thing limiting competitiveness in the meta.
with these moves (bolt beak, fishious rend, v-create, and glacial lance), the issues can be split into 2 categories: stab users, and non stab users. typically stab users are seen as the "root of the problem" and banned quickly (refer to oras/sm pdon and now darm) due to them being the strongest attackers in the meta at no major loss of efficiency. these pokemon are relatively easily countered, but absolutely necessitate a counter (sturdy resist) and can absolutely tear through teams if one is not present, meaning they can become broken relatively easily. i would say regieleki is a good example of a modern stab user that isn't quite over the edge: has massive trouble breaking elec resists, but will screw you over if you have no resist. plus theres also sun and rain which are incredibly dumb
then we arrive at non stab users, which are imo much more problematic. the problem with this massive range of incredibly strong moves being available to every pokemon is that breaking any non-fc wall is just a matter of running the right move. any physical attacker can run bolt beak to instantly remove hooh and waters, glacial lance to take out gira/zyg, v-create to beat any steel, and rend to beat hooh and the rare rock (or just run something like rain + rend zacc which is just disgusting).
as a result, any pokemon that gets 2hkod by any of these moves off a reasonably strong attacking stat is just asking to lose to physical attackers it would otherwise beat. a good example of this is poison heal regigigas: typically any decent normal resist can wall it out, but when these moves are added into the equation it starts to get really icky. steels don't work cause of vcreate, gira/zyg don't work because of glacial lance. and keep in mind, regi still has room for dd + facade + another move (?). at this point you start wondering how you're supposed to beat this with any regularity without using omega passive mons like fc gira and getting owned by anything with status.
oh yeah also xern can run the broken moves so now hooh just does not work as a pokemon like at all. VERY cool. one time i used levitate nihilego and died to fishious rend
I agree that some moves need to go next. I think one that should be considered is Final Gambit. Gambit is super uncompetitive, as it can force the game into a more matchup-oriented state. It can come down to whether one player just happens to have the resources left when down a mon for free to compete with the remaining enemy threats, while the gambit player can build ready for this in advance.
Final Gambit is dumb, get it out of here.
alright, been wanting to post on these for a while but here goes:
i think it's time to get rid of the broken moves. we've been having to balance the meta around them for so long that at this point, i think it's safe to say that they are currently the main thing limiting competitiveness in the meta.
with these moves (bolt beak, fishious rend, v-create, and glacial lance), the issues can be split into 2 categories: stab users, and non stab users. typically stab users are seen as the "root of the problem" and banned quickly (refer to oras/sm pdon and now darm) due to them being the strongest attackers in the meta at no major loss of efficiency. these pokemon are relatively easily countered, but absolutely necessitate a counter (sturdy resist) and can absolutely tear through teams if one is not present, meaning they can become broken relatively easily. i would say regieleki is a good example of a modern stab user that isn't quite over the edge: has massive trouble breaking elec resists, but will screw you over if you have no resist. plus theres also sun and rain which are incredibly dumb
then we arrive at non stab users, which are imo much more problematic. the problem with this massive range of incredibly strong moves being available to every pokemon is that breaking any non-fc wall is just a matter of running the right move. any physical attacker can run bolt beak to instantly remove hooh and waters, glacial lance to take out gira/zyg, v-create to beat any steel, and rend to beat hooh and the rare rock (or just run something like rain + rend zacc which is just disgusting).
as a result, any pokemon that gets 2hkod by any of these moves off a reasonably strong attacking stat is just asking to lose to physical attackers it would otherwise beat. a good example of this is poison heal regigigas: typically any decent normal resist can wall it out, but when these moves are added into the equation it starts to get really icky. steels don't work cause of vcreate, gira/zyg don't work because of glacial lance. and keep in mind, regi still has room for dd + facade + another move (?). at this point you start wondering how you're supposed to beat this with any regularity without using omega passive mons like fc gira and getting owned by anything with status.
oh yeah also xern can run the broken moves so now hooh just does not work as a pokemon like at all. VERY cool. one time i used levitate nihilego and died to fishious rend
Hard agree, they all suck so bad. Half the mons in the metagame, I have to ask myself “is this Pokémon good enough to be worth getting instantly dicked if the thing I’m using it to wall has the wrong moves. Like I’d love to use Ho-Oh as my Xerneas check, but it gets fucked by bolt beak and fishious so I end up defaulting to registeel, because v-create is comparatively rarer and easier to play around. Or I want to run prankster zygarde, but lol any physical attacker can just delete it with Glance if they’ve got it so you have to play it stupid carefully. If there weren’t so many of them, it would be one thing - this is what kept v-create from being so completely dumb last gen, but with all of them available and no real way to scout if they have one besides making your imposter take a million, you’re left to pray. If I could only get rid of one of them it would probably be either glance or bolt beak, but I don’t think 1 would be enough. Dragon Energy isn’t quite as bad as all the physical ones but absolutely falls into this category too in a way that spout and eruption never did, mostly by virtue of how much better of an attacking type it is in this meta (and the comparative lack of good waters and fires relative to dragons).
Okie I have been wanting to post this team for a bit now, as it has done phenomenally, and seeing as how I have racked up forfeits due to how effective the main sweeper is, I knew I just had to include it here.
This team has very ideal synergy not just in defensive and offensive typing but utility and set up prior to finishing off the foe.
Pheromosa works as a typical lead, with a twist. It packs Mind Blown to avoid Strength Sap Steels, King’s Shield, Burns, and Fur Coat mons that think safety from High-Jump Kick means Pheromosa cannot finish it off. It also hits Calyrex-Ice, Dusk-Mane, Solgaleo for secure 2HKOs.
Tapu Fini serves as my Improof allowing Scarf Imposter to go for the Mind Blown KO on my Pheromosa only for my inevitable switch-in and Baneful Bunker as they U-Turn.
Tapu Fini works great as an easy bypass for Palkia, Reshiram, and pivot from Dragapult to Pheromosa, breaking past Normalize / Substitute thanks to Parting Shot serving as a Sound move without damage; letting Pheromosa come in for Glacial Lance threat. Tapu Fini packs Core Enforcer so it can hit Reshiram, Eternatus, and others that think they can come in easily, it can also remove Poison Heal against Regigigas in a pinch, allowing it to survive, and Baneful Bunker for healing / accumulated damage, since it cannot Spore you. Tapu-Fini also serves as a deterrent for Rapid Spin Ho-Oh thanks to Baneful Bunker and Scald, respectively. She also absorbs Knock Offs, Core Enforcers, and Ice Moves aimed at my Dragons.
Zekrom can work against the Imposter Tapu Fini as they wouldn’t gain anything from Scald, or Core Enforcer; letting me come in on their Parting Shot and Magic Bouncing myself past their momentum and sending in Zacian for the easy burn activation and Spikes / Facade first turn setup / damage. Zekrom’s Magic Bounce and Dragon Memory serves as a deterrent from Imposter healing, and permits me to continue sweeping. I typically stay at 1 Shift Gear as Electric cannot be Paralyzed, so this way I can hit Imposter for a 2HKO. Oftentimes, they go for the 2nd Shift Gear or use Strength Sap; and it only secures my damage will finish them off. Bolt Beak works great to handle Ho-Oh, which can wall Pheromosa and Zacian, while Dragon Memory Multi Attack handles Dragons not named Dialga.
Zygarde-Complete serves as the necessary Prankster Hazer, while offering the typing for Tapu Fini to avoid Bolt Bolt while still dodging Nuzzle paralysis issues, as well as immunity to being trapped by Thundercage. Zygarde adds Rapid Spin so Zacian doesn’t have to and can trap Imposter for PP stalls thanks to both Haze and Rapid Spin. Ironically, if I trap a foe and get enough Rapid Spins off it can hit over 600 speed which can allow it to outspeed and even threaten and Regiaiki for super effective Thousand Waves damage.
Zamazenta-Crowned serves as a self-Improof and really works wonders as a bulky Offensive threat and Defensive deference from set up, including Power Trip, and Belly Drum. We all knows how necessary Unaware and Spectral Thief are in those situations, especially on a bulky resistant Pokémon. As for Regigigas, Multi-Attack Fighting is a solid 2HKO.
Zacian-Base works wonders. It really lets me Burn Zacian-Crowned on the switch, and severely cripple their teams very common Zamazenta-Crowned, not to mention even the walls if I know I cannot tempt them into Baneful Bunker off of Tapu Fini. It’s fast and hits like a truck. Imagine Scarf Pixelate Boomburst Xerneas and that is identical to the damage and Speed tier Zacian Pixelate Facade puts out. Spikes adds damage while stalling out thanks to spreading Burns to increase his longevity, and it will frustrate and force switches to their hazard remover which fears Burn / Facade itself (unless it’s Ho-Oh). Easily threatens Giratina and Zygarde-Complete for 2HKOs.
I tried to have 3 Pokémon immune to Cramorant-Gorging Paralysis via their Orb / Electric Typing, and it paid off since they can threaten with either a status or a 1HKO.
I feel this team tackles many issues most other teams run into, and can be a good example of type synergy and optimized move sets from the typical Pheromosa, Zacian, and Zekrom.
Yeah cityscapes , suddenly the meta game become in a spam of those broken moves, even with my preference for a HO style those moves are just too much, also I think Prankster Copycat with 2 turns moves like Dig, Dive or the worst Shadow Force is kinda dumb since you can't use moves like perish song to stop the spam and Copycat runs a solid amount of PP.
