BH Balanced Hackmons Central Resources

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#1
you know this is approved..
Balanced Hackmons Central Resources
(banner pending)

What is Balanced Hackmons?
Conceptually, BH is defined as a sandbox tier where one can use Pokemon to their fullest potential with normal restrictions being removed.

What is the Balanced Hackmons Central?
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the resources herein. To participate in BH General Discussion, join us at the [Gen 7] Balanced Hackmons Ladder Thread

Index:
Other Links:
Social:

Tournaments:
Balanced Hackmons Central Resources Staff:
E4 Flint
Funbot28 - VR, Role Compendium
motherlove - VR, Speed Tiers
ScarfWynaut - VR
Want to become involved? Contact one of us through PM on Smogon/PS and we'll evaluate you for joining the team!
Want to give feedback on the layout/formatting of this thread? PM me!
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#2
Balanced Hackmons: a Primer
Overview on popular mechanics in the Balanced Hackmons scene!

  • Since BH allows the use of anything coded in the game, unreleased Pokemon, abilities, megastones, items and moves are usable
  • Because of the caveat of being possible in a link battle, these basic mechanics must be followed:
    • the use of only 4 moves per Pokermon
    • only one manual mega evolution per battle
    • Pokemon being limited to only 510 EV points [NEW!]Pokemon are able to have max EVs in every stat in Gen 7!
  • Pokemon may begin in any form they have in game without restrictions (subject to the banlist). This includes Mega evolutions without a manual Mega Evolution and their specific Megastone, and different forms without necessary moves and/or items (such as GiratinaO, Aegislash-Blade, Rotom forms, Meloetta-P, Darmanitan-Zen and so forth)
  • Arceus, regardless of ability, cannot lose its held plate. It cannot be given a plate as well
  • Any form of Arceus can be used; however it will remain Normal-type unless it keeps the required plate and Multitype
  • Conversely, an Arceus holding a plate and having Multitype can take on any form of Arceus, but will retain its typing from the plate
  • Arceus cannot be forced to change its type; therefore it cannot use Protean. In addition, Soak will fail on it, but Forest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat will work normally
  • Hard-coded abilities designated for specific Pokemon will not work on any other. This includes Multitype, Stance Change, Forecast and Flower Gift
  • The only move hard-coded for a specific Pokemon, Hyperspace Fury, may only work on Hoopa-Unbound or its Imposter
  • You may set (nearly) any ability onto a base form of a Mega, but after a manual Mega evolution, they will retain their legal ability
  • Similarly, Pokemon with Primal Reversion, may make use of almost any ability on their base form once, before they revert and retain their legal ability. Some examples of base form abilities are Intimidate, Magic Guard, and Download
  • Items meant for specific Pokemon may work on their forms and retain their properties.
    • Mega Pokemon holding their Megastone cannot lose them via Knock Off or Trick
    • Mega Pokemon cannot Mega into themselves. This does not exclude Charizard-Mega or Mewtwo-Mega Mega Evolving to their alternate Mega form with the right stone
    • Both forms of Giratina may hold Griseous Orb. It applies its effects and cannot be removed from either one. Giratina-A will not transform into Giratina-O while holding it
    • Latios and Latias may make use of Soul Dew in both base and Mega forms
  • Furthermore, Pokemon with Imposter while holding special items retain their item's properties. This includes
    • The capability of Mega-Evolvution or Primal Reversion with the designated items
    • Stat buffs from items such as Eviolite, Soul Dew, Light Ball, Thick Club, DeepSea items and more. This excludes Ditto's special items which are coded not to work when Ditto is in a transformed state.
    • Special effects from items such Lucky Punch or Stick
to be reformatted...
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#3
Viability Rankings
Pokemon are sorted by name within their rank
This rank is reserved for special pokemon. These mons may not necessarily be the "best" in the tier in that they can be handled, but they have a marked impact on the tier, and it is impossible to really play or teambuild without considering these pokemon.
Chansey (Imposter, Fur Coat)
Chansey's immense HP and ability to receive boosts from Eviolite make it the premier Imposter user in Balanced Hackmons. Its very existence necessitates the concept of Imposter-proofing, protecting one's team against one's own offensive Pokemon to avoid a Chansey counter-sweep. Even these protections can be undone if Chansey opts for an alternative item, such as Lucky Punch or Spooky Plate. The Fur Coat set, while less common, acts as an excellent check against -ate attackers like Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie, as well as many variants of Mega Mewtwo Y and Primal Kyogre. Overall, the extreme influence that Chansey has on teambuilding makes it worthy of S-Rank.
Mega Mewtwo Y (Psychic Surge, Sheer Force, Contrary, Simple)
If the best Special Attack stat in the game, an almost unrivalled speed tier, and high-Base Power STAB moves weren’t enough, Mega Mewtwo Y is arguably the Pokemon that benefitted the most from the generation shift. The introduction of Psychic Surge removed the main way players dealt with it, namely priority attacks, by negating them entirely, while simultaneously considerably boosting its damage output. Very few Pokemon can switch in on a Psychic Terrain- and STAB-boosted Psystrike, and even fewer can tank the following Moongeist Beam or Secret Sword. To make matters worse, Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y can take on almost every Pokemon that the Psychic Surge variant struggles with, making it a really hard Pokemon to prepare for. Its presence alone greatly shifted the meta, forcing players to run Choice Scarf and Regenerator + Assault Vest users to deal with it. Balanced Hackmons without Mega Mewtwo Y would undoubtedly be very different, which is why it easily deserves a spot in the S rank.
Mega Rayquaza (Triage, Aerilate, Contrary, Quick Feet, Tough Claws, Dazzling)
Choice Specs or mixed Aerilate, mixed Contrary, Choice Banded Tough Claws, Tail Glow Triage and Dazzling Shell Smash are some of the viable sets that mega Rayquaza can be seen running in balanced hackmons to take full advantage of its stellar offensive stats and amazing typing. Because they all function differently and hit extremely hard on both sides of the spectrum, mega Rayquaza can bypass its counters by simply running unexpected sets, making it one of the hardest pokemon to prepare for in the meta. Its wallbreaking power is also coupled with very generous bulk and a great speed tier which can easily turn Mega Rayquaza into a threatening sweeper especially since it can abuse powerful priority on both sides of the spectrum. Mega Rayquaza’s introduction has considerably reshaped the meta around him, and it remains one of the most powerful wallbreakers and sweepers in Balanced Hackmons making it easily deserving of a place in the S Rank.
A+

Giratina (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Fur Coat, Mold Breaker, Prankster, Regenerator, Comatose)
Primal Kyogre (Poison Heal, Fur Coat, Regenerator)
Mega Gengar (Normalize, Dazzling, Mold Breaker, Adaptability)
Mega Mewtwo X (Contrary, Refrigerate, Mold Breaker, Tough Claws, Dazzling, Technician, Simple)
Registeel (Levitate, Flash Fire, Prankster, Regenerator, Magic Bounce)
Zygarde-C (Poison Heal, Unaware, Prankster, Regenerator, Fur Coat, Magic Bounce, Soundproof)

A

Mega Audino (Poison Heal, Unaware, Fur Coat, Magic Bounce, Prankster, Magnet Pull)
Mega Diancie (Pixilate, Contrary, Magic Guard)
Mega Gyarados (Unaware, Poison Heal, Regenerator, Simple, Fur Coat)
Regigigas (Poison Heal, Normalize, Scrappy, Mold Breaker)
Solgaleo (Regenerator, Prankster)

A-

Xerneas (Poison Heal, Contrary, Magnet Pull, Unaware, Pixilate)
Yveltal (Unaware, Poison Heal, Unburden, Regenerator)
B+

Aegislash (Prankster, Flash Fire, Levitate, Magic Bounce)
Arceus (Unaware, Poison Heal, Normalize)
Dialga (Tinted Lens, Magic Bounce, Soundproof, Steelworker, Regenerator)
Kangaskhan <Kangaskhanite> (Illusion, Simple)
Mega Tyranitar (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Sand Stream, Simple)
Shedinja (Sturdy, Magic Guard)

B

Ferrothorn (Unaware, Flash Fire, Regenerator)
Kyurem-B (Refrigerate, Dazzling, Technician)
Mega Sceptile (Contrary, Stakeout, Sheer force, Soundproof, Dazzling, Tinted)
Xurkitree (Galvanize)
Zekrom (Galvanize, Refrigerate, Tough Claws)

B-

Celesteela (Prankster, Flash Fire, Primordial Sea, Regenerator)
Deoxys-A (Psychic Surge, Contrary, Mold Breaker, Dazzling)
Garchomp-Mega (Adaptability, Poison Heal, Mold Breaker, Stakeout)
Kartana (Steelworker, Dazzling, Unburden)
Kyurem-W (Refrigerate, Sheer force, Snow Warning)
Mega Swampert (Fur Coat, Magic Bounce)
Cresselia (Prankster, Regenerator)
Deoxys-S (Mold Breaker)
Hoopa-U (Dazzling, Adaptability, Unburden, Tinted Lens, Hustle)
Lunala (Simple, Unburden)
Magearna (Magnet Pull, Flash Fire, Regenerator)
Mega Aerodactyl (Magic Guard, Mold Breaker, Sand Stream)
Mega Ampharos (Prankster, Galvanize, Regenerator)
Mega Lati@s (Contrary, Tinted Lens)
Mega Slowbro (Soundproof, Fur Coat, Regenerator, Unaware)
Mega Steelix (Regen, Unaware, Flash Fire, Prank)
Mega Venusaur (Prankster, Flash Fire)
Nihilego (Sand Stream, Levitate)
Pheromosa (Technician, Dazzling, Skill Link)
Tapu Fini (Fur Coat)
Alolan Muk (Unaware, Regenerator)
Ash Greninja (Dazzling, Simple)
Diancie (Water Absorb, Poison Heal, Sand Stream)
Ho-Oh (Magic Guard, Desolate Land, Poison Heal, Contrary)
Lugia (Prankster, Regenerator)
Mega Pidgeot (Triage)
Mega Scizor (Flash Fire)
Mega Heracross (Triage, Tinted Lens)
Pikachu (Imposter)
Reshiram (Contrary, Tinted Lens, Stakeout)
Buzzwole (Flash Fire)
Gengar<Gengarite> (Illusion): Banned
Marshadow (Normalize, Triage, Dazzling)
Palkia (Stakeout) Banned
Primal Groudon Banned
Cosmoem {pretty terrible, use Cresselia, Lugia or an actual wall that is non-Psychic}

VR Changelog
In no particular order
Promoted: Magnet Pull, Stakeout Sets

S -> A+

S -> A+

B -> A+

Added: Stakeout

Demoted: Magnet Pull

Demoted: Fur Coat, Magic Bounce

Demoted: A- -> B-

Promoted: B -> A

Promoted: B -> A-

Promoted: B -> A-

Added: B+ (Sturdy, Magic Guard)

Added: B (galvanize)

Updated: Ability reordering

Added: C (Sand Stream, Levitate)

Demoted: B- -> C

Added: C (Prankster, Regenerator)

Added: C (Fur Coat)

Added: D (Regen, Unaware, Flash Fire, Prank)

Demoted: C -> D

Demoted: C -> D

Demoted: C -> D

Updated: Flash Fire added

Added: B-

Promoted: B-
Promoted:
Ferrothorn: B- -> B
Kangaskhan: B -> B+
Mega Steelix: D -> C
Pheromosa: D -> C

Demoted:

Kyurem-B: A- -> B
Mega Slowbro: B- -> C
Mega Heracross: C -> D


Added:
Mega Swampert: UR -> B-

Removed:
Buzzwole: D -> UR
Gengar<Gengarite>: A -> UR (Banned)
Marshadow: D -> UR
Palkia (Stakeout) C -> UR (Banned)

Other:
  • Descriptions for Kyogre and \\THEGOD\\ Removed (S only)
  • Mentions of Stakeout and Magnet Pull in Strikeout to signify ban
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#4
Speed Tiers

This post is ranking speed for outspeeding; it is sorted in descending order. The format is:
<speed number> [Pokemon Images]
hide tag
  • POKEMON1 (Level) (w/ ITEM) / EVs:(+) / IVs: / (Buffs) // (MISC INFORMATION)
6048
(top speed)

  • Deoxys-Speed w/ Choice Scarf / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +6 // Swift Swim in Rain (no Tailwind)
...
1083
MegaRayquaza (statused) / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 // Quick Feet (+4 without Quick Feet)
882
Pheromosa / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
879
Lunala / EVs: 252 / 31 / +4 //
876
Deoxys-A / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
854
Sceptile-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
832
MegaMewtwoY / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
798
Ash-Greninja / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
788
Gengar-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
MegaMewtwoX / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
783
Gyarados-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +4 //
766
Marshadow / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
744
Arceus / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
723
Tyranitar-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +4 //
722
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
700
Diancie-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
682
Pidgeot-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
661
Pheromosa / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1 //
658
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
656
Palkia / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
Regigigas / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
Slaking / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
652
Yveltal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Xerneas / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
644
Lunala / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
634
Kyurem / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
634
Kartana / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
622
Garchomp-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
612
Groudon-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Kyogre-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Reshiram / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Zekrom / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
598
Ash-Greninja / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
598
Kangaskhan-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
Palkia / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
Regigigas / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
Slaking / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
594
Yveltal / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2//
Xerneas / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2//
586
Lunala / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
578
Kyurem / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
566
Garchomp-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
558
Groudon-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Kyogre-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Reshiram / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
Zekrom / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2//
541
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1//
538
Gengar-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
MegaMewtwoX / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
538
Zygod / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
522
Gyarados-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
518
Hoopa-Unbound / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2 //
508
Arceus / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
504
Deoxys-Speed / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
498
Tyranitar-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +2 //
493
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
478
Diancie-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
459
Groudon-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1//
Kyogre-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1//
Reshiram / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1//
Zekrom / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1//
458
Magearna / EVs: 252 / 31 / +2//
445
Yveltal / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1//
Xerneas / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1//
441
Pheromosa / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
438
Aerodactyl-Mega/ EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
Deoxys-Attack / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
427
Sceptile-Mega/ EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
426
Hoopa-Unbound / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1//
416
Mewtwo-Mega-Y / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
399
Ash-Greninja / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
394
Gengar-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +1 //
MegaMewtwoX / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
383
Marshadow / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
372
Arceus / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
361
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
359
Gengar-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +1 //
MegaMewtwoX / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
350
Diancie-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
341
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
339
Arceus / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
329
Rayquaza-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
328
Kangaskhan-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
Palkia / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
Regigigas / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
Slaking / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
326
Yveltal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
Xerneas / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
322
Lunala / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
Solgaleo / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
319
Diancie-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
317
Kartana / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
317
Kyurem / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
311
Garchomp-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
306
Groudon-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
Kyogre-Primal / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
Reshiram / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
Zekrom / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
299
Kangaskhan-Mega / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
Palkia / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
Regigigas / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
Slaking / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0 //
297
Yveltal / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Xerneas / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
293
Lunala / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Solgaleo / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
289
Kyurem / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
283
Garchomp-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
279
Dialga / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Groudon-Primal / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Kyogre-Primal / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Reshiram / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Zekrom / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
269
Zygod / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
261
Gyarados-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
259

Hoopa-Unbound / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Venusaur-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
249

Scizor-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
Tyranitar-Mega / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
218
Chansey/ EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//

Think we missed any? Suggest what ought to be added!
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#5
Negative Speed Tiers

This post ranks speed for underspeeding; it is sorted in descending order. The format is:
<speed number>[Pokemon Images]
hide tag
  • POKEMON1 (Level) (w/ ITEM) / EVs:(-) / IVs: / (Debuffs) // (MISC INFORMATION
202

Lugia / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Metagross-Mega / EVs: 0-/ 0 / +0//
196
Shedinja / EVs: 252+ / 31 / +0//
179
Shedinja / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0
Solgaleo / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0
166
Dialga / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Giratina / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Kyogre-Primal / EVs: 252 / 31 / +0//
157
Zygarde / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
150
Gyarados-Mega / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
148
Venusaur-Mega / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
146
Buzz/ EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
139
Scizor-Mega / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
114
Skarmory-Mega / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
112
Aegislash/ EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
94
Audino-Mega/ EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Chansey / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Diancie / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Muk-Alola / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Registeel / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
76
Shedinja / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//


58
Slowbro-Mega / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
Steelix-Mega / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
13
Shuckle / EVs: 0- / 0 / +0//
4
Shedinja Lv1 / EVs: 0- / 0/ +0 //

Think we missed any? Suggest what ought to be added!
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#6
Role Compendium

This resource lists some viable users for a specific role. This is not a conclusive list so feel free to suggest add-ons/build from here!

Note: Everything here is ordered by Name, not Viability.

General Roles:
(Offense)
Wallbreakers:
Adaptability:


Aerilate:


Galvanize:


Normalize:


Pixilate:


Refrigerate:


Sheer Force:


Stakeout: (Banned)


Steelworker:


Sturdy:


Technician/Skill Link:


Tinted Lens:


Tough Claws:
Setup Sweepers:
APS:


Contrary:


Poison Heal:


Simple:


Triage:


Unburden:
(Balance)
Stallbreakers:
Mold Breaker (Status):


Mold Breaker (Offense):


Parental Bond*:


Perish Trap:


Shadow Tag*:(Banned)

(Defensive)
Defensive Pivots:
Fur Coat:


Magic Bounce:


Poison Heal:


Regenerator:
Setup Checks
Imposter:


Prankster:


Unaware:

Specific Roles:
Gengar-Mega Checks:


Groudon-Primal Checks:


Kyogre-Primal Checks:


Psychic Checks:


Rayquaza-Mega Checks:


Zygod Checks:

Imposter-Proof Setup Sweepers:
{Multitype w/ Spooky Judgment, Normalize w/ Ghostium-Z, Poison Heal w/ Status}
{Spooky Judgment}
{Galvanize w/ Earth Judgment, Pixilate w/ Earth Judgment}
{Unburden w/ Belly Drum Sitrus Berry + Fire Attack(s)}
{Simple w/ Spooky Judgment, Unburden w/ Imprison}
{Dry Skin w/ Flame Judgment}
{APS w/ Ghost Multi-Attack, Triage w/ Ghost Multi-Attack}
{Contrary w/ Scarf, Quick Feet w/ Flame Orb}
{Poison Heal w/ Status}
{Scarf Contrary}
{Unburden w/ Imprison and White Herb}
{Galvanize w/ Draco Judgment}
{Poison Heal w/ Status}
Banned:
Primal Groudon

* Must use Megastone
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#9
Thanks:
Chloe. - virtually providing the template for these type of threads with her resource threads
Funbot28 and motherlove - doing the main processing of most of the resources
VoltDarkrai - helping in collecting sprites

The BH Community - your patience
Once again, sorry for the delay everyone. It took a long time in formatting, alphabetizing, editing and laying out the resources in a way I saw was ideal. I had a busy semester and right now I don't have internet so I am using up my hotspot data to try and get this done. Hopefully we can build on from here!
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#10
Remember guys, the purpose of this thread is to discuss any/all of the above and thus what I have posted is in no way conclusive, final or immutable. Just make sure to backup your suggestions with concise and rational backing. I would rather not have "Shedinja to S+ rank pls xD!" one-liners in here if possible. Make use of replays, logs, reasoning or anything else to backup your idea but don't write novels.
 
#12
thanks for setting up the vr! i got a few suggestions to make but it looks pretty solid apart from that.

ok for starters, there's a few relics from the wb era left: wb m-gyara, water absorb ttar, water absorb audino, water absorb xern, wb trash greninja, water absorb steela, wb palkia, water absorb magearna, water absorb diancie, and (presumably) desolate land ho-oh.

never seen soundproof dialga but it actually sounds really cool

why is kanga above gengar? both lose to offense but gengar is so good vs fat teams it's dumb. kanga can pressure them too ofc but at least you can sort of play around it with stuff like ph and shed. can't do that with gengar. for this reason i believe they should switch places

there are a few viable mons that aren't ranked, such as unburden pdon/solgaleo, nihilego, and *COUGH COUGH* some others

there's a couple weird sets that i think need some explanation: regen mega metagross, dry skin magearna, snow warning kyuw, hustle hoopa, mega sceptile in general (besides contrary), speed boost kyub, levitate steels, harvest regi. not calling these bad i just don't get what makes them viable.

again thank you for posting the vr! very nice to have bh feel complete again
 
#13
First of all, thank you for making this giant thread for all of us to finally fulfill our desire to talk about viabilities of 'mons.

To get this kicked off, I would like to express my opinions on the existing 'mons that I do not agree with:

Major thoughts:



Exile this frog to Unranked / Blacklist

I can't believe this frog is even on this list. Water Bubble has been banned, and this 'mon lost significant amount of its viability ever since, and its base stats are too awful to feature OHKO on Mega Rayquaza using Ice Beam or OHKO Zygarde-C using Sheer Force + Life Orb Ice Beam. I think the viability of Greninja-Ash has been demonstrated to most BH players during previous CLC challenge (as our leader has admitted that it was pain and near impossibility), so I am not going to mention anything further and suggest the deletion of this 'mon from the list.

Nominating to move Gengar (Gengarite) from B to an A

Gengarite is the most seriously-taken ability in BH Suspect thread at this point, and the combination of Encore + Perish Song + Shadow Tag is capable of trapping many important walls in the metagame, including but not limited to Zygarde-C, Mega Audino, Registeel (lacking Prankster Parting Shot / Baton Pass), and others. In the perspective of the player who is against Gengar with Gengarite, they always have to think twice before pressing Shore Up with Fur Coat Zygarde, Rapid Spin with their RegenVest Solgaleo, Stealth Rock with their Unaware Audino, or Switcheroo with their Choice Band Primal Groudon (although Gengar switching into this is not realistic but whatever).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-541092251
This is a replay of me vs Funbot28. I believe couple people have seen this, but this shows how a single mistake in front of Gengarite can bring tragic consequences every time.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7balancedhackmons-283300
This is a replay of jasprose vs Transcendent God Champion in semi-semi-finals in BH Open tour. Every time Lance (who I refer as TGC) presses status / recovery / hazard control moves, he always risked losing the 'mon, and he unfortunately didn't get predictions right all the time, and he lost majority of his teams against it.

I can see A rank is defined as "really good", and Flint has also admitted the increasing interest of Gengarite among members (although not enough interest to move further to polls at this point). This 'mon leaves an opponent under heavy pressure from the team preview, and strictly inhibits everything they do in the whole game. At some extent, I believe this is more than just "must prepare for", it is something "deadly that you must prepare for". I believe B rank is too low for this thing.




Suggesting to move Zygarde-C from S to A+

The first thought I had when I saw this thing being released was 'so fat'. Yes, it does have titanic HP and colossal natural bulk which makes OHKO very hard for anything without Ice-type moves. But the popularity of Zygarde-C has caused nearly every special attackers to carry Ice and Fairy-type moves which can all comfortably 2HKO or OHKO Zygarde-C, and this metagame allows anyone to access to Ice Beam / Light of Ruin and stuff.
But I know that just because Zygarde-C is a prime victim of being OHKOed by Ice-type moves does not mean the viability is hindered from it; Fur Coat set can prevail against Primal Groudon even with the ones equipped with Choice Band Ice Hammer, and with Z-Crystal, it can check next to every single physical attackers in the metagame without being crippled from Switcheroo or Trick. It is still a meta-defining wall, so I think it has to be at somewhere very high rank but as most players are used to Gen 7 at this point, the walling-capability of this 'mon has decreased a little due to its unfortunate x4 Ice-type weakness.
I understand this 'mon has many other strength that outshines its weakness from its typing and I won't have any complaints about this suggestion being rejected. Even if the suggestion is implemented, I believe some day other people will suggest to bring this back to S rank.


Minor thoughts:


I do not understand why do I not see a Magnet Pull set. Primal Groudon's both STABs potentially hit Steel-types supereffectively, and STAB V-Create OHKOes most Steel-types that does not have Flash Fire.



Although Psychic Surge outclasses most of other abilities, I think Dazzling / Queenly Majesty at least deserves a mention due to the lack of announcement of the ability and the fact that it does not restrict its team from using priority moves.

Also,
Remove all mentions about Water Bubble, since it was banned. Water Absorb, I think, has to be removed as well, due to the fact that its only viable usage was to stop Water Bubble attackers.


Thanks for reading. This is not a novel, but took a wrong time to write.
 
#15
Mega Pokemon cannot Mega into themselves. This does not exclude Charizard-Mega or Mewtwo-Mega Mega Evolving to their alternate Mega form with the right stone
That's actually wrong, it is possbible to Mega Evolve a Mewtwo-Mega x holding a Mewtwonite Y into a Mega-Mewtwo Y and vice versa, same with Charizard.

Also, Magnet Pull should be added for Groudon-Primal.

And Levitate on Registeel is just a waste of an ability slot, as thousand arrows bypass it.
 
#16
That's actually wrong, it is possbible to Mega Evolve a Mewtwo-Mega x holding a Mewtwonite Y into a Mega-Mewtwo Y and vice versa, same with Charizard.

Also, Magnet Pull should be added for Groudon-Primal.

And Levitate on Registeel is just a waste of an ability slot, as thousand arrows bypass it.
Thats what he said; it does not exclude you from mega evolving into the opposite form. Does not exclude is a double negation.
 
#18
Yah but he said "cannot". Double negation essentially means "pokemon can't mega evo into themself, this includes mmx n shit"
The cannot is in the other sentence, and thus no longer modifies it. The sentence says "these pokemon cannot do <thing>. This rule does not exclude these pokemon from doing this <other thing>"
 
#19
forgot to remove water bubble for Mega-Gyarados and possibly other Pokemon, I'll delete when this is fixed

Semako Levitate isn't a waste of an ability on Registeel. I've used it for Improof purposes like improofing things such as LO Sheer Force MMY with Earth Power / Ice Beam / Moonblast or Tbolt / Sludge Wave. That set is extremely hard to wall besides Chansey, and Levitate is useful for those purposes. Now that is a very specific example, but it isn't useless.

Flint edit: merged
 
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#20
Suggesting to move Ho-Oh from D to C

Ho-Oh might be outclassed offensively by Groudon-P and Rayquaza-M, but its definitely muuuuch better and more flexible than most of the crap in D-rank such as Alolan-Muk. (What does Muk even do outside of having unique typing?) It can run an Aerilate set and, unlike Mega-Ray, can run a STAB V-Create, Sacred Fire, or Blue Flare to muscle past Steel-types that'd wall it otherwise. It also lacks the vulnerability to Ice Ray has, meaning it's not forced out by opposing Fridge Kyurem-B. In fact, played well and running Sacred Fire, it can beat Kyu-B in a straight out slugfest. Ho-Oh also has underappreciated 103/154 special bulk, allowing it run AV Regen quite well. It can also use that bulk to run Coil sets, ideally with Unaware, to become a threatening and difficult to take down attacker.

However, alot of the top tier threats can, well, threaten in, such as Primaldon, and it won't fit on every team, so I don't think it qualifies for B- rank presently


Suggesting to move Mega Manectric from Unranked to C

Galvanize gave this thing a new life and it still has one of the best speed tiers, only notably outsped by Mewtwo-Y, Deo-S, and Aerodactyl-M without boosts. There aren't a lot of safe switches into its Boomburst that are not resistant or immune and it can run coverage moves to reliably deal with Groudon and Zygarde, who you'd think would counter, but only check at best. It's also quick enough to disable walls and offensive threats alike, though it can run set-up as well too if it gets a turn to get going. It also performs amazingly on Electric Terrain teams as an abuser. It can also run a Sheer Force set, which is less powerful overall but gives it much stronger coverage, or act as a lure with Refrigerate to take out stuff like Zygarde for another teammate.

I don't think its presence is near common enough to warrant higher than C currently, though I think it could score higher. I mean, Greninjass is in the B tier, after all. And it should be at least in par with Ampharos trading a bit of power and some bulk for speed and not needing a whole lot of support outside of a slow pivot user. However, at the very, very least put it in D if you don't feel its C-worthy.


Suggesting to move Xurkitree from Unranked to somewhere

I don't use it, so can't comment much on it. But you have it listed as a wall breaker, so it feels odd that its unranked. Is something not worthy of ranking worth listing as a viable choice for a wallbreaker? Either rank it or remove it from wall breakers.


Suggesting to move Arcanine from Unranked to S+++

Don't care about stats, its simply the best Pokemon in existence. If you disagree, you're wrong, plain and simple.


I'll look more over everything when I have more time. Too longer to type that up than I expected.
 
#21
Mega Pokemon cannot Mega into themselves. This does not exclude Charizard-Mega or Mewtwo-Mega Mega Evolving to their alternate Mega form with the right stone
After literally hours of arguing and searching (like legit two+ hours) and asking multiple people about it (some didn't answer) I have finally come to a conclusion.



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The conclusion is that I was wrong, Semako was wrong, Quantum Tesseract was wrong and everyone else was wrong except esteemed tier leader E4 Flint, the sentence is correct (depending on wether or not you consider zardX and zardY as the same mon) it's just super confusing and I think it would be a good idea to word it differently.

I would go with "Mega-Pokemon cannot mega evolve into the same mega form".
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#22
I shall settle the Great Summer E4 Flint Grammar Debate/Debacle of 2017 and will make a timeline post for significant Bh events such as suspects and this soon.

Here is the planned fix

"Mega Pokémon cannot evolve into themselves. However, if they have an alternate mega form (like charizard or mewtwo) they may mega evolve from one form to another."

E: also it is not "awfully worded" it's just worded in a concise and emphatic way >_>

E2: we can invite some GP members if needed

E3: to see the difference, look at the way I phrased imposter held items for ditto later on

I will leave it up for a while for further analysis just in case (also cause I'm on mobile for a few days).

E4:Flint
 
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Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#23
im torn on xurk tbh, its speed tier is god awful in this tier, same with its bulk, but its perhaps one of the scariest wallbreakers in the tier. electric boomburst with specs is near unwallable in the tier, and zygarde, giratina, and groudon cant hope to tank specs earth power or ice beam. i mean the fucker effortlessly 2hkos AVregen registeel with boomburst. one of the tankiest regenvesters out there. it might not be GREAT but i do agree it deserves at LEAST the lowest rank. i also support magnet pull on groudon. i dont know if i agree with moving zyggy down, as even with ice/fairy coverage, zygarde still manages to be one of the best tanks in the metagame.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#24
Announcement:
I realized in post that I had formatted an older version of the VR which is why there were some inaccuracies. I also factored some of the feedback I've seen about the "hide" tags. My intent was to make it easy to scroll past all the OPs of this thread should someone want to, but I removed the interior tags to make it easier to view the mons. Please check out the revised VR as put forward by Funbot28 motherlove and myself. Thanks!
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#25
Ok so with the Viability Rankings being updated, here are some initial nominations that the council would like you guys to discuss!

Mega Diancie: A -> A+
  • Becoming more common on ladder and tour games, Scarf/FakeSpeed Pixilate Mega Diancie is still really good in the current meta since most teams carry Pokemon that are weak to it/give it free switchins such as Zygarde-C, Giratina, and other passive threats. Solgaleo is a nuisance, but pairing it with Scarf Magnet Pull Primal Groudon usually alleviates this issue. From there Mega Diancie can wreck since it lacks many solid switchins besides Steels. Other useful sets such as Contrary and Magic Guard also provide Mega Diancie a surprise factor that can be extremely advantageous if used properly. Its weakness to common offensive types in Ground, Steel, and Water alongside its poor defensive bulk disallow it from switching in against the majority of top tier threats however.
Gengar: B+ -> A-
  • Skyrocketed in popularity and viability after the Ev Limit change, Shadow Tag Mega Gengar has cemented itself as a staple on many BH teams, acting as a great means to get rid of common defensive pivots such as Mega Audino, Registeel, Zygarde-C, and Imposter Chansey if they lack Magic Bounce / Soundproof, providing unparalleled support to offensive teammates. Its offensive sets are also quite useful as well, since its coverage moves can help deal with offensive threats such as Mega Rayquaza, Zygarde-C, Primal Groudon, and Mega Tyranitar.
Deoxys-A: A- -> B+
  • Opposed to Gengar, Deoxys-A did not appreciate the resurgence of mixed defensive walls that prevent it from obtaining the 2HKOes / OHKOes it was used to in the previous meta. Although Psychic Surge sets are still quite potent alongside Shell Smash, more teams are opting to run its counterpart in Mega Mewtwo Y due to its better specially offensive wallbreaking prowess, its more reliable natural bulk, and the general flexibility it can use between its sets.
Xerneas: B+ -> A-
  • Xerneas has also been given a fresh breath of air with the No EV limit change, allowing it to better check numerous offensive threats such as Primal Kyogre, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Rayquaza much better. Its Offensive Quiver Dance Poison Heal sets are also quite potent in the current metagame due to the prevalence of Core Enforcer as a means to check other Poison Heal sweepers. Defensive Poison Heal and Unaware sets also provide a useful blanket check to many special attacking threats due to its Fairy typing providing amazing Defensive and Offensive coverage.
Lugia: C -> D
  • Apart from Baton Pass teams, Lugia rarely sees much use in the current metagame. Although the change to EVs made it even more sturdier as a defensive wall, the numerous weaknesses to common offensive types such as Ghost, Dark, Ice, and Rock prevent it from checking the threats it needs to. It also gets outclassed as a Psychic check by defensive threats such as Solgaleo and Mega Gyarados in many cases as well, even furthering diminishing its utility as a defensive wall.
Discuss the rankings of these certain Pokemon, and changes will be made if enough support is provided within this thread. Of course discussion on other nominations is not disallowed, but we encourage the focus to be on the aforementioned points for now.

Happy Posting!
 
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