BH Balanced Hackmons

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#1
thanks E4 Flint for the banner
What is Balanced Hackmons?
From a technical standpoint, Balanced Hackmons (BH) is an Other Meta that allows you to use nearly anything possible that you can battle with in a local battle between players, in the most current cartridge.

Conceptually, BH is defined as a sandbox tier where one can use Pokemon to their fullest potential with normal restrictions being removed.

Note:
To jump to playing Pokemon with no restrictions but what is limited to the mechanics of the game, visit the ANYTHING GOES thread

What makes it Balanced?
The removal of abilities, moves or Pokemon that focus the meta only around their use.

Highlights of BH Mechanics:
Here is but a sample of the cool things you can do in BH and nowhere else!
Note: The following is subject to the current banlist

  • Start in Mega, Primal, Alternate, Origin, Heat, Zen, or any other form you choose! No manual evolution, item, ability requirement necessary! Have as many of them as you like on your team!
  • Make use of as many of the same mon on your team! Free yourself from the species clause
  • Add (nearly) any moves of your choice into your moveset! Fulfill your dreams of Hydro Cannon Magikarp at last!
  • Augment your Mons with your favorite abilities! Magic Bounce, Prankster, Illuminate and everything in between!
  • NEW: Add Z-Moves into your moveslot which can be used without their item! This includes the exclusive Z-moves!
  • NEW: Returning now, make use of maxed EV'd Pokemon after the removal of the EV Limit
Clause and Ban List:
Sadly, to get the "Balanced" in Balanced Hackmons, some things have to be removed. The following is the current banlist:
(Click to view)

Important Links:
Previous Gen(s):
Tier Leader:
E4 Flint
Welcome to the new meta, everyone! I am really glad to be leading us into this new gen​
 
Last edited:

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#2
Sample Teams
Note: Teams built for previous banlists in HIDE tags
Current Meta:
(Images link to pastes)

1) E4 Flint's Twin Sunbursts
Link: http://pokepast.es/f42aa9499f4494a6
Updated: https://pokepast.es/36cf2917a310668a (with Giratina instead of Zygarde)
Desc:Deal maximum damage by confusing opponents with different Rays that provide complementary coverage. Ground mAttack for AV sol, audino checks the Tinted Ray's Imposter.
(Note: Giratina with nearly the same set or with SR can also provide a good substitute to Zygarde, if Groudon and Shedinja are posing too much of a threat (Link above))
Link to experience

2) Smogon Genie's Sand Volt-Turn
Link: https://pastebin.com/RJ1DEcBN

Desc: Wear the opponents team down with Sand damage + Hazards to eventually clean up late game with the two choiced mons; Specs Hoopa's great dual STAB's and Tinted Lens Primal Groudon's fast powerful attacks. Gyara imposter proofs Hoopa-U and FC Giratina imposter proofs Primal Groudon. Despite not getting the SpD boost from sand like Regirock, Mega Steelix has a much better defensive typing and for the most part ends up lasting longer throughout the battle. Solgaleo is a pretty standard regenvester with great ways of supporting the team.

Experience:
BH Open R1 match vs. Haund: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-559469642
BH Open R2 match vs. Zugubu Royale: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-565946336
High ladder play (warning long match): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-569242434

3) badlighter's Contra MMY
Link:https://pastebin.com/9Mna8DFv

Desc: Smash through opposing mons using mmy's combination of contrary and spore. Mewtwo is strong enough to 2hko most unaware walls and can defeat avest users through spore. Mray is there to revenge kill weakened mons and can provide sr support. Use celes to improof mray and ttar to improof mmy.

4) highlighter's noob Mguard Pdon
Link: https://pastebin.com/GvBpY0mJ
Desc: Break most walls using kyub's excellent offensive typing and its massive coverage. Find an opportune chance to setup with pdon to easily sweep through most teams. After a shell smash, LOR will ohko both tina and zyg, unless theyre unaware or avest. Make sure to scout for those beforehand. Use celes to improof pdon and chans to improof kyub. Darkinium Z can be used on Giratina as a good alternative item

5) Silver_Lucario42's dragon of delusion
Link: https://pastebin.com/raw/K3Spp2Dq

Description: lure in xurkitree's usual counters with illusion mega rayquaza to allow it to break more stuff. prankster haze zyg supports the team by taking most attacks from boosters

6) aki0s' Surge MMy / Illusion M-Ray / PH TTar
(Team in hide tag below)
The team is premised around illusion M-Ray opening up holes for PH-Ttar & MMy. TTar hates fur coat mons, the most common of which are Giratina / Zygod and MMy hates regen-vest mons - Ray takes care of both of these pretty well.

Defensively:
Regenvest Solgaleo offers a general sponge for the meta and checks MMy. Revelation dance allows the team some leeway against normalize M-ggar (but it's still somewhat of an issue). Prank aud is a panic button against most things and knock is useful to bluff meme purify sets or magic bounce. Giratina is standard fur coat with dark-z parting shot to re-heal threats. M-Ray can be checked by TTar and TTar can check itself as long as you don't go to above +1 with imposter still around.

Problems the team faces:
The team struggles against FF steels (I've added earth plate judgment to mitigate on MMy - but it's still a problem) and contrary / smash spammers. It can also struggle to break through defensive mons if you lose M-Ray too early on in the game. The team can handle normalize M-ggar to some extent, however it still poses problems. PH mons can get out of hand as well and require a bit of creative playing with Aud / Gira to handle as this team lacks core enforcer.
There's probably some other major problems i'm missing as well, but overall the team has done well for me. Also I should probably note that i've been using this team with 2 crystals, which is probably not the best way to go per se, but it works for me; if you don't want to use two crystals you can change dragonium-z on Ray to expert belt.
Machiavelli (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Psystrike
- Moonblast
- Tail Glow / Shell smash

Rise above (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Dragonium Z / Expert Belt
Ability: Illusion
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Moongeist Beam

Bow to the king (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shift Gear

Starburst (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Revelation Dance
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

Cleopatra (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Destiny Bond
- Haze
- Knock Off
- Roost

Spectre (Giratina) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Tail
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-587124900 v Duckomo Senior
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-587551139 v Anna Says hi
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-588894208


Archive

EV Limit
1) PinkDragonTamer's Dragon-Steel-Fairy Balance
Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Solgaleo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thousand Arrows
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Ice Hammer
- U-turn

Rayquaza-Mega @ Sky Plate
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Earth Power

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Skill Swap
- Baton Pass
2) MAMP's "OOGH" Fat Balance Team
OOGH (Dialga) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Nuzzle

OOGH (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Shore Up
- Dragon Tail
- U-turn

OOGH (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Trick

OOGH (Yveltal) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Shore Up
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

OOGH (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
- Fake Out

OOGH (Kyogre-Primal) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Quiver Dance
- Taunt
1) RNGIsCancer's Primal Cancer Team
DumbAss Real Dreamer (Kyurem-White) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Draco Meteor
- Secret Sword
- Moongeist Beam

Ass Gore Violence (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Bonemerang
- V-Create
- Switcheroo

SWERVE Ending (Kyogre-Primal) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Spectral Thief
- Moongeist Beam
- Volt Switch

Anti Homo Undyne (Buzzwole) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 236 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Strength Sap
- Defog
- Leech Seed
- U-turn

Toriel's Cream Pie (Audino-Mega) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Rapid Spin
- Shore Up
- U-turn

Chara (Giratina) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Shore Up
- Spikes
- Metal Burst

2) Silver_Lucario42's Xurkipod team
Xurkitree @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 248 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Earth Power
- Sunsteel Strike
- Ice Beam

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Bolt Strike
- Knock Off

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Dragon Tail
- Heal Order

FREE FROM BLACKLIST (Golisopod) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- U-turn
- Liquidation

Drifblim @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- U-turn
- Metal Burst
- Moongeist Beam
- Recover

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 248 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Final Gambit
- Recover
- Roar

3) Funbot28's Deadly Dragons
Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Shell Smash
- Spore

Zekrom @ Draco Plate
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 200 Atk / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Mild Nature
- Judgment
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash

Groudon-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Copycat
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- V-create

Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 4 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Dialga @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Core Enforcer
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Nuzzle

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Shore Up
- Encore
- U-turn

4) motherlove's Kartana Offense
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Close Combat
- Trick

Xerneas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Refresh
- Haze
- Soft-Boiled

Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thousand Arrows
- Milk Drink
- U-turn
- Haze

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 100 Atk / 252 SpA / 156 Spe
Mild Nature
- Boomburst
- Head Charge
- Spike Cannon
- Extreme Speed

Solgaleo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike

Sceptile-Mega @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 Def / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Seed Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Focus Blast

Maxed Out EV's
Magnet Pull Teams made by RNGIsFatal & Semako
(importable in HIDE tag)
Importable:
https://pastebin.com/QjBs5rTC

Description:
Choice Specs + Psychic Surge MMY hits ridiculously hard, and it will Volt Switch against Steel-types, letting Magnet Pull Pdon take care of what happens next. Normalize Gengar with Sub-Seed is very underestimated stallbreaker, and the rest 3 of party are Fur Coat Giratina to Imposterproof Pdon, Magic Bounce Mega Audino to keep Impostered Giratina from messing around, and Prankster Registeel that checks my own MMY.
Ladder performance: 21st @ 1674 (verified)

(importable in HIDE tag)
Chain Chomp (Gyarados-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Power Trip
- Recover
- Baton Pass

Bowser (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- Switcheroo

Princess Peach (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash

Power Star (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Core Enforcer

Bob-omb Buddy (Blissey) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy

Luigi's Nightmare (Giratina) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Defog
- Parting Shot
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
Experience: Peaked at about 1750 elo (verified)

Additional: OM Team Bazaar (General Team Dump of OMs including Balanced Hackmons)
 
Last edited:

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#3
To get the discussion kicked off I want to start off with my new favorite toy

The killer:

Yveltal @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip​

Pretty basic set that I theorymonned on the fly but it really takes advantage of old and new mechanics in the following ways
  • A rare self-contained Imposter proof set not named Gengar
  • Power Trip for massive damage
  • Sunsteel simultaneously takes care of fairies, shed and unaware
  • Extremely effective switch in for Psychic Terrain Psychic mons that can take advantage of disabled priority
  • New built-in immunity to Prankster targeting effects including parting and topsy

Also everyone who hates the Z-Move Assist newly developed strategy, feel free to throw the blame at me lol
 
Last edited:

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#4
Ok so I will also post soem good sets I have been using/seeing on ladder so far:



Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Terrain Extender / Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Genisis Supernova
- Psystrike
- Earth Power / Moongeist Beam
- Quiver Dance


This set basically allows Mega Mewtwo Y to avoid the most common form of counterplay towards it in priority attacks. Psychic Terrain also allows it to boost its Psychic type attacks and makes it avoid Prankster Haze and Topsy-Turvy as well. This set is truly threatening and should be accounted for on every team.


Zygarde-Complete @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 104 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Knock Off
- King's Shield / Will-O-Wisp
- Shift Gear

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb / Mold Breaker / Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Heal Order


The new face of Sun and Moon Balanced Hackmons, Perfect Zygarde is an absolute monster in this metagame. 216 HP is almost Chansey level bulk which in itself is already impressive. It also has great Dragon / Ground defensive and offensive typing which allows it to run a plethora of offensive and defensive sets. There are plenty of other sets I could list but I don't want this post to be too long. Complete Zygarde is really good enough to be used on any team at this point due to versatility it has. Thus meaning that it really needs to be considered when teambuilding as of now.


Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption / Scald
- Moongeist Beam
- Quiver Dance
- King's Shield


This is basically PH Quiver Dance Primal Kyogre on steroids lol Water Bubble allows this thing to absolutely demolish practically anything due to the x2 boost to its Water type moves. The introduction of Moongeist Beam also means that it no longer gets walled by Sturdinja as well which is truly terrifying. This is why accounting for a Water Absorb mon (usually Primal Groudon) is really recommended so that you do not get absolutely swept by this monster.


Groudon-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Stealth Rock
- Heal Order
- U-turn

Groudon-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
- Thousand Arrows
- Sacred Fire
- Shift Gear
- Synthesis


These two Primal Groudon sets are meant to counter Primal Kyogre mainly while still being amazing defensive pivot and offensive sweeper respectably. These sets are from ORAS BH so I wont go too in depth anyways as they are pretty starighforward if u played during primal gen 6 BH era.



Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore
- Substitute Moongeist Beam (ya u dont rlly need sub anymore due to Traige, thks motherlove for pointing out)
- Tail Glow


Due to the Gail Wings nerf, I thought that Tail Glow Mega Ray would be unviable again, but Traige was introduced and makes TG sets even better. It basically gives Oblivion Wing +3 priority which means that it can now outprioritize even -ates which is really important. I still feel that Prankster sets will also be good to be a better Imposter proof variant, but Psychic Surge/ Dazzling kinda stops that set and this one as well which is why running that ability is also important to deal with Mega Ray now.


Solgaleo @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Haze
- U-turn
- Recover


I feel Solgaleo will replace Registeel when it comes to the defensive pivot Steel type role this generation due to its massive 137 HP and great additional Psychic typing. Prankster Haze allows it to beat Contrary and setup sweepers in general this gen due to Unaware no longer being able to wall Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam. I have also been seeing RegenVest sets which are also very good as well.

The SuMo BH meta seems to be very interesting so far and I can't wait to see it develop even more as time goes on!
 
Last edited:

Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
#5
In ORAS, I used Kyurem-Black with Glaciate Choice Band Espeed, and I am hoping to use it again this meta. I know it's very early in, but is there anything new that could pose a threat? I've found that Toxapex can, but I haven't seemed to identify anything else.
 
#6
Ok so I will also post soem good sets I have been using/seeing on ladder so far:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore
- Substitute
- Tail Glow


Due to the Gail Wings nerf, I thought that Tail Glow Mega Ray would be unviable again, but Traige was introduced and makes TG sets even better. It basically gives Oblivion Wing +3 priority which means that it can now outprioritize even -ates which is really important. I still feel that Prankster sets will also be good to be a better Imposter proof variant, but Psychic Surge/ Dazzling kinda stops that set and this one as well which is why running that ability is also important to deal with Mega Ray now.
Yeah I don't think monowing triage ray is really good at all, the main use of sub in the original set was to protect from priority which is not needed in this case. Monogale is walled and actually set up bait by queenly majestic or dazzling mons and can't do anything in psychic terrain.
Replace sub with either moongeist beam or some other kind or coverage. The set I've been seeing the most personaly is owin / moongeist beam / secret sword which hits almost everything relevant.
 

bp scrub

rub a dub dub one scrub in a tub
#7
you should probably have some kind of speed boosting move on Triage Ray (Smash, Quiver Dance) or Sub bc otherwise, the psychic surge mewtwos revenge kill so easily
In ORAS, I used Kyurem-Black with Glaciate Choice Band Espeed, and I am hoping to use it again this meta. I know it's very early in, but is there anything new that could pose a threat? I've found that Toxapex can, but I haven't seemed to identify anything else.
Both Psychic Surge and Dazzling grant immunity to Extreme Speed and Solgaleo is physically bulkier than Registeel
 
#9
0 Atk Primal Kyogre Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 184-217 (38.4 - 45.3%)
0 Atk Primal Kyogre Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel in Heavy Rain: 138-163 (37.9 - 44.7%)

252 SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 268-316 (56 - 66.1%)
252 SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Heavy Rain: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%)

Where d'yall get the Solgaleo calcs from?

Hm okay, thanks for the feedback!
Also Owing Rayquaza outprioritizes Kyurem's Espeed.
 
#10
Wrote this up earlier (on phone so don't expect much):

From a theoretical point of view, I think an interesting part of BH this gen will be terrain battles. Psychic Terrain seems like the go-to terrain, but if that's the other team's only answer to priority, then a different Terrain can easily force a switch or threaten with priority. On the other hand, if the other team only uses Dazzling or Queenly Majesty, then not all Pokémon will be protected, making priority users force switches.

It's currently seeming to me like a sort of Weather Wars meta could develop, but based off of terrains rather than actual weather. Needing to keep Psychic Terrain up could prove to be a hassle, but not having any terrain leaves you vulnerable to the terrain of the opponent. For example, the Psychic Surge MMY set could be a liability if it's the only Psychic Surge Pokémon on the team.

Do any of the other terrains hold enough merit for this to happen? I personally believe so; Grassy Terrain has its own variant of Shore Up and (EDIT: I'm stupid and can't read move descriptions) Electric Terrain has Surge Surfer and a new tool in Galvanize. Not sure if it will develop, but I'm looking forward to the new tools Gen VII offers.
 
Last edited:

Yoshizilla315

Tournament Banned
#11
0 Atk Primal Kyogre Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 184-217 (38.4 - 45.3%)
0 Atk Primal Kyogre Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel in Heavy Rain: 138-163 (37.9 - 44.7%)

252 SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo in Heavy Rain: 268-316 (56 - 66.1%)
252 SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Heavy Rain: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%)

Where d'yall get the Solgaleo calcs from?

Also Owing Rayquaza outprioritizes Kyurem's Espeed.
Ah you are right, thanks for the feedback as well!
 
#12
Alright, here are some sets I'm using:

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Shift Gear
- Substitute
- Thousand Arrows
- Ice Punch

This is really, REALLY tanky:
252 Atk Zekrom Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 208-248 (32.7 - 38.9%) -- 6.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 204-240 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Lugia Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 415-490 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming an Extreme Evoboost)
+3 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 258-304 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming a Tail Glow)
+3 252 SpA Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 312-367 (49 - 57.7%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


It can also return good damage after just one Shift Gear:
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zekrom: 248-294 (72.7 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 270-318 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 195-229 (55.2 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 324-384 (92.3 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO



This is a bulky special attacker against physical moves:

Venusaur-Mega @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Venoshock
- Leech Seed
- Topsy-Turvy

Just use Baneful Bunker when the opponent uses a physical attack so they get poisoned, then use Venoshock for a 130 BP critical hit.
(This can be used on Gengar-Mega for a more offensive presence)
I know this may be situational but it works well for me.

And then there's this THING:



Rayquaza-Mega @ Sky Plate / Silk Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Aerilate / Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pulverizing Pancake
- Copycat
- Spore
- Shift Gear / Swords Dance / Extreme Evoboost

252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Kyogre-Primal: 684-805 (169.3 - 199.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Lugia: 226-267 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Solgaleo: 300-354 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Arceus help us all.

252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 433-511 (97.5 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Nevermind, then.

Here's my anti-setup cannon fodder:


Wailord @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker

(It really doesn't matter what moves it has, it just needs to die)

So if some Mewtwo-Mega-Y or anything that has less than 170 base Health tries to set up on you, you send this out before they attack. Then this thing dies (due to its amazing 85/95 defenses) and explodes, killing the enemy. If it can't then you Shell Smash and do a Close Combat, doing reasonable damage to ensure that you die.

What do you guys think?
 
#13
Some cool sets I been using:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe OR 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Nature's Madness
- Night Shade
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire / Taunt / Shore Up

Pretty much the greatest wallbreaker/lure of all time. Disguise this as some offensive mon, when they switch in their counter you mega evolve and do a juicy clean 75% with Nature's Madness. After Nature's Madness nothing can survive Night Shade. Extreme Speed gives you a very solid priority move, and you can run pretty much whatever in the last slot, the moves I've got listed above are just a few of the myriad viable options. I haven't figured out whether its better to run Attack or HP investment on this, I think both are good and it probably ultimately depends on how much you need a powerful Extreme Speed. I went up against this one stall team with this and it got like 4 kills, its almost impossible for slower teams to deal with, and it's really phenomenal at punching holes in defensive cores to support sweepers like Triage Mega Rayquaza.

RISING TIDES (Kyogre-Primal) @ Mystic Water
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance / Shell Smash / Tail Glow
- Steam Eruption
- Water Shuriken
- Taunt / Shore Up / King's Shield / Substitute / coverage (Moongeist Beam is the best coverage option on this I think)

This is the Water Bubble P-Kyogre set that I prefer. Should be pretty self-evident how this works. Steam Eruption is an absolute nuke, Water Shuriken is really good priority, boosting move sometimes just wins games on the spot, and the last slot is filler pretty much, it's got so many good options for the 4th move. I prefer Mystic Water as the item because it gets some pretty key OHKOs and 2HKOs that you miss out on if you aren't running a boosting item, tho I forget the specifics.

with anticipation (Groudon-Primal) @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Shore Up
- Earth Power
- Judgment

Sets like this existed in ORAS but the prevalance of Water Bubble P-Kyogre and the introduction of big Zygarde give it a new lease on life. This is a pretty straightforward Quiver Dance sweeper that can lure in two of P-Groudon's best counters -- Giratina and Complete Zygarde -- and blow them away with a boosted Icicle Plate Judgment. It's also a fantastic check to Primal Kyogre and Mega Diancie. This pairs really well with a Water Bubble mon -- not only does this anti-Imposter the Water Bubble mon really effectively, but it also lures in Giratina which is one of the most common checks to Water Bubble.
 
#14
I just tested Shell Bell (item) + Triage (ability) on Showdown to get to know if the damage-healing effect of Shell Bell would count for purpouse to receive +3 priority, but it failed.

Can someone test this in-game just to be sure that's how the mechanics work?

It would be interesting to see Mega-Rayquaza replacing Oblivion Wing for Dragon Ascent.
Re-posting my question from the other thread to ask ih8ih8sn0w if he could test this. I actually doubt it will work, but if i'm wrong this means any damaging attack affected by Shell Bell also could be affected by Triage.

Another question: how much Battle Bond increases the damage of Ashninja's Water Shuriken? If it's above x2 then might be worth over Water Bubble Pogre lol

Also, since Harvest + Leppa Berry works on Z-Moves, then Guardian of Alola could find some use instead of Parental Bond + Nature's Madness. I mean with PB you have to stuck with Kangaskhan while with Leppa Harvest you could go for Perfect Zygarde or something.
 
#15
Moongeist beam and Sunsteel strike are threatening sturdy Shedinja for sure. I built a team but I have mostly used old sets, with this being the only new toy

RoolThirtyFawr (Deoxys-Attack) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psystrike
- Spectral Thief
- Magma Storm
- Extreme Speed

Since those moves that ignores abilities exists and prankster has that annoying restriction against dark types, unaware/prankster + topsy turvy seemed a little bit unconsistent in some scenarios, so I wanted to try Spectral thief and came up with a stats stealer or a revenge killer depending on the situation. Also I think it works against a Psychic Terrain boosted mon, I don't know if the terrain disables prankster since I didn't have the opportunity to test it out but I think it does
 
#16
I'm new to BH, but I came up with a set that's been working for me.

Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Topsy-Turvy
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Great counter to the mmy set posted above. The point of the set it to check set-up sweepers. Take a hit from a set-up Pokémon, and topsy-turvy them. Then, priority recover next turn. Triage instead of prankster to help deal with psychic terrain mons and dark types. The last two moves are filler and can be a variety of things, but I like rapid spin for team support and knock off so you're not taunt bait. I hope my noobness hasn't shown through in this post and you have a nice day.
 

Uselesscrab

tide slack, summer low, sunlight catch the golden narrows
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#17
I'm new to BH, but I came up with a set that's been working for me.

Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Topsy-Turvy
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Great counter to the mmy set posted above. The point of the set it to check set-up sweepers. Take a hit from a set-up Pokémon, and topsy-turvy them. Then, priority recover next turn. Triage instead of prankster to help deal with psychic terrain mons and dark types. The last two moves are filler and can be a variety of things, but I like rapid spin for team support and knock off so you're not taunt bait. I hope my noobness hasn't shown through in this post and you have a nice day.
Not really sure why you're using Triage on this when you could just use Prankster and give priority to both Recover and Topsy Turvy. It's solid otherwise, though.

So that this isn't a one liner, here's an adjusted version of my Kartana set from the Gen 7 Discussion thread again since people are posting sets.

Kartana @ Fire Memory
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Multi-Attack


Things I realized when I actually used this set instead of simply theorymonning it:
  • It doesn't really beat Imposter as I would have hoped with Shell Smash. Therefore, I've been using Shift Gear and 248 HP / 8 Def, which makes Sunsteel Strike a 3HKO and ensures that you can "safely" 2HKO with Multi-Attack. This is only guaranteed to work from full health.
  • It's still a good idea to run an auxiliary Steel-type to wall Imposters just in case, preferably one with a phazing move.
  • Zygarde-Complete is incredibly common and just walls this thing completely, as does Giratina. Mega Diancie is a great partner for that reason; it also beats Yveltal, which I've seen a lot of.
  • Flash Fire Mega Scizor should have stayed back in pre-EV limit XY where it belonged. sigh.
 
#18
Not really sure why you're using Triage on this when you could just use Prankster and give priority to both Recover and Topsy Turvy. It's solid otherwise, though.
I'm going to be taking it a step further and recommend that you use Haze over Topsy Turvy if you use Prankster. Simply put, the Prankster nerf in Generation 7 can be problematic. A lot of new sets are emerging with Dark Type Pokemon that aren't affected by Prankster status moves with a target. Furthermore, Psychic Terrain is an issue for when you are using a priority status move with a target, and it isn't like this terrain is uncommon. That's where Haze comes in.

Haze has no target. As such, you cannot block this move with anything except Taunt because the two ways of stopping Topsy Turvy only stop priority moves with a target that isn't yourself. Prankster allows you to have a better chance of reverting the changes - If a 'mon is set up enough for your Yveltal to be one-shot, you can erase this setup faster unless they have some sort of priority (I guess I'd recommend Psychic Terrain users as a partner just to buffer your chances of removing the setup.)
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#19
its time for me to claim my set before others think of it :^)

Zygarde-Complete @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief

so, i was thinking to myself "Zygarde sure is tanky...why not run it as a offensive pivot? and here we are. regenvest zygarde. this thing is INSANELY bulky. like...look at some of these calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Mega Mewtwo Y Psychic vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 313-370 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO this represents 185 psychic terrain boosted psychic move that psychic surge mm2 tends to run. cant really factor in life orb...but this gives a good idea on its bulk.

252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 426-504 (66.9 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO super effective moves? slightly more probematic...the problem with the calc atm, is that its actually a 1.2 boost, and theres no way of accounting for that without doing math...so imagine that number slightly lower.

so u-turn is obviously for momentum, and tarrows hits everything neutrally barring grass and bugs, who are either uncommon, or hit neutrally due to their secondary typings. core enforcer is ran over moongeist/sunsteel because not only does it remove defensive abilities...it removes OFFENSIVE ones too. goodbye PH, fur coat, and refridgerate! not to mention this set is designed to be slow, so the "having to go last" doesnt matter much, and lastly, core enforcer has a suprisingly decent PP of 16, quite a bit for such a good signature. spectral theif is perhaps one of the best moves in the meta. so some fun trivia for those who dont know: spectral theif can go through substitutes AND only steals positive stat changes, meaning using shell smash on this guy is a death sentence for you. :P all in all this is perhaps my favorite zygarde set so far, and i encorage you to use it.

also this set does have problems with chansey, but hes so weak and similar to chansey its not even that BIG of a problem.
 
#20
Hi I'd like to post my team here:

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Strength Sap
- U-turn
- Heal Bell
- Haze
I replaced Registeel with this since I was lacking a fighting resist, and it fits the bill well. Strength Sap is by far the best recovery move in the game, and boosted by Triage not even Dark types can stop it. Using Triage does mean I miss out on prankster haze or heal bell, but I think it's worth the cost.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Steam Eruption
- Spore
This is a standard ORAS set replacing Gale Wings with Triage, which allows it to outprioritize slower Fake Outs, such as from Kyurem-B. Steam Eruption is used over some other coverage to beat some Primal Groudon which still rules this meta. Finally, spore can disable something, allowing free setup. Impostor Chansey still beats my entire team if it sets up to +3, since even Arceus is defeated by Spore.

Arceus-Water @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Psystrike
- Psychic Terrain
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
This is my check against priority and second defense against stat boosters. With the combination of Unaware and Spectral Thief, I can stop almost every setup mon in the meta. I must watch out for random fighting coverage though; since it's specially defensive, many physical fighting attacks such as 137 ATK non-STAB Close Combat simply KO. Shore up has increaesd recovery in a sandstorm, which works extreemly well with Tyranatar. Finally, Psychic terrain protects against priority attacks and also powers up Psystrike.

Tapu Koko @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Spore
- Bolt Strike
- Pursuit
Tapu-Koko is one of the fastest Electric types in the game. I originally tried to play it as a Galvanize user, but its attack is just too low to do that. It was added to counter Primal Kyogre, which it does admirably. Its Bolt Strike is an OHKO, and it has the added utility of being able to get off a quick Spore. Play Rough hits Dragon, Fighting and Dark types for fair damage, landing a 3HKO even on the bulky Complete Zygard. Finally, Pursuit keeps Sturdy Shedinja honest. And if an Impostor tries to come in, Spore will keep it down for a few rounds, allowing me to switch to a counter.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Frustration
- Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike
Mega Mewtwo-x is my -ate user of choice. It has the highest attack stat in the game, and arguably the best offensive -ate ability that hits Dragon and Flying mons, both of which are quite common, for super effective damage. The set is designed to be completely Impostorproofed by Arceus which can easily take two priority attacks before setting up Psychic terrain. The Ghost z-move does 90+% to Solgaleo and heavily dents bulky Steel types that can take Fakespeed. Add to that it's quicker many mons at base 130, and Mewtwo-x is still arguably the best Refrigerate user in the game. It's physical bulk is actually pretty good for such a powerhouse too!

Tyranitar-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Beak Blast
- Knock Off
- Diamond Storm
Tyranatar is a great mixed tank and also an excellent pivot. Sand Stream and Assault Vest increase its special defense to a staggering 621, allowing it to take only 80% from even fully invested Mega Mewtwo-y's Aura Sphere. Its 359 defense takes neutral hits like a champ too, though it's important to keep it away from fighting attacks or it will probably die in a single hit. Rapid Spin keeps annoying rocks off the field, while Beak Blast burns physical attackers who try to mess with it and can allow it to go down with the last laugh by crippling the physical attacker that killed it. Knock Off and Diamond Storm are both very useful, especially Diamond Storm with its chance to double defense to 718.
 
#21
Might as well claim a set I am wanting to try out as well...

Yveltal @ Lum Berry / Leftovers / Life Orb / Sky Plate / Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Tail Glow
- Substitute / Spiky Shield / King's Shield
- Moongeist Beam / Magma Storm / Earth Power


My original idea was to use something that isn't mega ray for the triage set. With the dark type buff, it is immune to prankster status, allowing it to setup safer (besides haze, but that isn't really a threat since it can just setup again in 1 turn). Oblivion Wing is it's main stab and move to spam due to triage giving it +3 priority. Tail glow is it's main setup move and it is better than Quiver Dance because it allows you to imposterproof yourself to an extent. Substitute is also for imposterproofing and to keep you alive longer against non sound based moves and Infiltrator. It can be swapped out for Protection though if you want that, although results might not be as great. I chose lum berry for non-prankster status on the switch, but other items are probably better options. Moongeist Beam gives it great coverage while still ignoring abilities, and hitting walls like Giratina and Aegislash hard.

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 384-452 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 326-384 (100.6 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Magma Storm allows you to kill steels which are specially invested. While still trapping them and killing Sturdy Shedinja.

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Registeel: 108-128 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 18.2% chance to 3HKO
+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Registeel: 216-256 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Earth Power is another great coverage move as it can hit Flash Fire pokemon and Primal Groudon.

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 418-494 (103.4 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Some more calcs for thought.

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 361-426 (102.8 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Rayquaza Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 169-201 (37 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar: 344-406 (85.1 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (standardish ttar set)
4 Atk Tyranitar Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Yveltal: 288-342 (63.1 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Moongeist Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 344-406 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 406-478 (89 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+3 252+ SpA Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 286-337 (69.7 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Other possible checks and counters:

-ate: Do I need to explain this?

Mega Diancie: If you do not have sub up and it is not pixilate, you are also dead.

Queenly Normal types: These are immune to Moongeist Beam and Oblivion wing, forcing the switch unless you are running Earth Power or Magma Storm.

Psychic Terrain: This removes the usage of it's main stab for 5-8 turns, forcing it to rely on it's secondary move and removing non passive health recovery means.

Special Unaware walls: This set has no means of harming something specially bulky and with unaware on its own.

Zygarde-c: Regenvest forces the switch out. Nothing at +3 can deal more than 35% to zygarde.


This set isn't the best and in no way will replace M-Ray as the main triage user, but with the lack of speed, it can be used as a bulkier triage sweeper and it weakening prankster users is a bonus. I have no idea how this will play out due to the ladder still being nearly unplayable (the team I built around this uses mechanics which are currently incorrect on PS compared to in game).

edit: as for testing triage and shell bell, I will have to hold off on that today because I broke my Moon installs... It's complicated and I will hopefully have them working tomorrow.
 
#22
I know there is already a PH Zygarde set posted above but I just wanna claim this set as my own :)



Zygarde-Complete @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Taunt

with this set, Zygarde can phase and beat any giratina that doesn't have Spectral Thief or Magic Bounce and a boost-neutralising move such as Haze, Heart Swap, etc. Even if Giratina does steal the boosts it will be phased immediately afterwards anyways so you don't have to worry about it Baton Passing it to another mon. This set will never really sweep since Zygarde's attack is awful by BH standard however after a boost it can threaten the 2HKO on most offensive mons which is enough since Zygarde's bulk is simply incredible. This Zygarde is best paired with hazards to weaken the whole team via phasing and with another late game cleaner to sweep after everything has been weakened. Through the combination of Taunt and Dragon Tail most walls without Magic Bounce won't be able to deal with Zygarde.
 
Last edited:
#23
its time for me to claim my set before others think of it :^)

Zygarde-Complete @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief

so, i was thinking to myself "Zygarde sure is tanky...why not run it as a offensive pivot? and here we are. regenvest zygarde. this thing is INSANELY bulky. like...look at some of these calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Mega Mewtwo Y Psychic vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 313-370 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO this represents 185 psychic terrain boosted psychic move that psychic surge mm2 tends to run. cant really factor in life orb...but this gives a good idea on its bulk.

252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Mega Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 426-504 (66.9 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO super effective moves? slightly more probematic...the problem with the calc atm, is that its actually a 1.2 boost, and theres no way of accounting for that without doing math...so imagine that number slightly lower.

so u-turn is obviously for momentum, and tarrows hits everything neutrally barring grass and bugs, who are either uncommon, or hit neutrally due to their secondary typings. core enforcer is ran over moongeist/sunsteel because not only does it remove defensive abilities...it removes OFFENSIVE ones too. goodbye PH, fur coat, and refridgerate! not to mention this set is designed to be slow, so the "having to go last" doesnt matter much, and lastly, core enforcer has a suprisingly decent PP of 16, quite a bit for such a good signature. spectral theif is perhaps one of the best moves in the meta. so some fun trivia for those who dont know: spectral theif can go through substitutes AND only steals positive stat changes, meaning using shell smash on this guy is a death sentence for you. :P all in all this is perhaps my favorite zygarde set so far, and i encorage you to use it.

also this set does have problems with chansey, but hes so weak and similar to chansey its not even that BIG of a problem.
Have you considered thousand waves? I saw that you were using it as a PH Ogre counter and with waves you can take it out instead of just force it out. Same for other PH users like Ttar and such.



Anyway, let me introduce you to my new favourite toy in BH.



Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Close Combat / V-create
- Bullet Punch

This thing's power is absolutely ridiculous, people switch their Zygod or Celesteela thinking they can take a hit... they can't. There really isn't much that Sunsteel Strike can't 2HKO in the Current meta, bar like bulky Primal Don and Max defence Poison Heal Kyogre, both of which can be taken down with Power Whip. The other 2 moves are just kinda there I never really clicked them, but they're theoretically useful.

Anyway no matter how it may sound on paper, I can assure you that so far, this set has been amazing in practice. Just the satisfaction of thinking "who dying?" everytime it enters the field is worth it.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-480411987 Kartana killing PrimaDon and PhisDef Giratina.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-480907987 Kartana killing Zygod and Celesteela.

Kartana @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Sacred Fire / Close Combat
- Power Whip
- Belly Drum

Slightly more gimmicky but still a pretty good set, the thing is that in SuMo there's a lot less priority flying around so even on non-dazzling mons, a set up set becomes more viable. Add that to the fact that Kartana can surprisingly survive some priority, virtue of its good typing and solid defence stat, and you have a pretty decent Belly Drummer at your hands.

Sunsteel Strike is such a great move, not only is it a solid stab but it also ignores unaware, fur coat and sturdy which would otherwise stop it dead in its tracks. Sacred Fire / CC can deal with imposter Chansey, netting a clean OHKO. Power Whip the secondary stab and deals with Groudon, Kyogre and stuff, but it's also really useful to net an OHKO on Kyogre without boosting.

The EVs outspeed 252 speed EVs base 90 meaning you outspeed most relevant kyogres in the meta considering they either run 148+, 252 or 0. Max atk for obvious reasons and the rest in HP for moar balk, thought 4 EVs have been moved in defence to have an even amount of HP.

252 Atk Pixilate Mega Diancie Head Charge vs. 148 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 117-138 (39.5 - 46.6%)
252+ Atk Zap Plate Galvanize Zekrom Head Charge vs. 148 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 147-174 (49.6 - 58.7%)

You can run this with Psychic terrain support, it's probably better, idk I never tried but yeh, theoretically it should work, lol.

I had a good replay for this one but it says the replay is private or smt and I don't even know what private replays mean so I guess I won't share it, you'll just have to trust me that this set isn't trash ok?

Kartana @ Leftovers
Ability: Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Shift Gear

Yeah this is basically UC's set except not imposterproof, but I always had trouble dealing with imposter with UC's set anyway and substitute came in handy a bunch of times already so I thought I might share this. Same spread as above which is enough for a sub to survive thousand arrows from uninvested Zygod. The rest is pretty self explanatory, sub on a switch, use the opportunity to set up and hopefully sweep.

Here's a good replay where Kartana essentially killed the entire team, thought it does come with 70 turns of (necessary) stalling at the beginning so be warned: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-479524647

I'll also leave this calcs here hoping that someone might build a grassy terrain Kartana team.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon in Grassy Terrain: 550-648 (136.1 - 160.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Zygarde in Grassy Terrain: 590-696 (92.7 - 109.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



EDIT:
Alright, here are some sets I'm using:

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Shift Gear
- Substitute
- Thousand Arrows
- Ice Punch

This is really, REALLY tanky:
252 Atk Zekrom Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 208-248 (32.7 - 38.9%) -- 6.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 204-240 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Lugia Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 415-490 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming an Extreme Evoboost)
+3 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 258-304 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming a Tail Glow)
+3 252 SpA Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 312-367 (49 - 57.7%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


It can also return good damage after just one Shift Gear:
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zekrom: 248-294 (72.7 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 270-318 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 195-229 (55.2 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 324-384 (92.3 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO



This is a bulky special attacker against physical moves:

Venusaur-Mega @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Venoshock
- Leech Seed
- Topsy-Turvy

Just use Baneful Bunker when the opponent uses a physical attack so they get poisoned, then use Venoshock for a 130 BP critical hit.
(This can be used on Gengar-Mega for a more offensive presence)
I know this may be situational but it works well for me.

And then there's this THING:



Rayquaza-Mega @ Sky Plate / Silk Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Aerilate / Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pulverizing Pancake
- Copycat
- Spore
- Shift Gear / Swords Dance / Extreme Evoboost

252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Kyogre-Primal: 684-805 (169.3 - 199.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Lugia: 226-267 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Solgaleo: 300-354 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Arceus help us all.

252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Pulverizing Pancake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 433-511 (97.5 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Nevermind, then.

Here's my anti-setup cannon fodder:


Wailord @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker

(It really doesn't matter what moves it has, it just needs to die)

So if some Mewtwo-Mega-Y or anything that has less than 170 base Health tries to set up on you, you send this out before they attack. Then this thing dies (due to its amazing 85/95 defenses) and explodes, killing the enemy. If it can't then you Shell Smash and do a Close Combat, doing reasonable damage to ensure that you die.

What do you guys think?
Some interesting concepts here man, but I can't help but wonder why none of your defensive mons are running any kind of reliable recovery. Uninvested Zygod at +1 still does very negligeable damage against any mon that has some kind of bulk so recover or something could allow you to more easily switch into things and set up multiple times in the course of the battle.
Thought at least Zygod is insanely bulky, but I can't really picture that Venusaur lasting for a very long time if it needs to rely on leech seed as its only form of recovery.

Aerilate Pancake is insane, but I'm pretty sure it's a bug that has yet to be fixed (un)fortunately, thought it's still good for the time being.

Innards out Wailord is super annoying to face, but I do feel like you miss on some utility by running Wailord instead of other huge HP mons.
The main problem with wailord is that it's too damn obvious from team preview what it's gonna be. And unless you want to use this fact to play some mind games (which I wouldn't really recommend) Chansey does basically the same thing except it bluffs another set in team preview and has more HP, meaning you can potentially get rid of Zygod or an opposing imposter Chansey by sacking your own. Chansey without Eviolithe and minimal investment has pretty mediocre bulk anyway, Psystrike or Secret Sword from mmy easily OHKO it.
Also even thought it's a deadweight set that's just there to die, I'm pretty sure there are better movepool options. Stealth rocks for one would be an obvious choice and I've faced a few hazard stacking innards out Blissey on the ladder. Final Gambit is another option for when your opponent knows your set and is avoiding to Kill you or smt.
Another mon that could feel this role is Guzzlord which has more HP than Zygod, but also has a pretty decent offensive presence if you run it with Malicious Moonsault. Up to you thought.
 
Last edited:
#24
Some stuff I've been using lately:


-5- (Solgaleo) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Earth Power
- Spore
- Shell Smash

Solgaleo is a pretty good shell smash sweeper & combined with dazzling it doesn't care about prankster (except prankster haze) / e-speed, Fake out etc, after the shell smash. Spore is there to provide set-up against walls without safety goggles. Stored power is great after a shell smash, letting Solgaleo muscle through unaware walls.
I've combined this set with the following Yveltal set to take care of imposter Chansey;


-4- (Yveltal) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 184 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Heart Swap
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

This set hard walls any coverage my imposter'd Solgaleo has, whilst trapping it, stealing the boosts & eliminating imposter Chansey for the other sweepers on my team. The ev's are there to provide some measure of backup against M-Gengar (although I haven't seen much of these lately).

Example of how the strategy works (although my Solgaleo did not have the opportunity to set up)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-480988903
 
Last edited:
#25
Some interesting concepts here man, but I can't help but wonder why none of your defensive mons are running any kind of reliable recovery. Uninvested Zygod at +1 still does very negligeable damage against any mon that has some kind of bulk so recover or something could allow you to more easily switch into things and set up multiple times in the course of the battle.
So should I run Shore Up instead of Substitute?

Innards out Wailord is super annoying to face, but I do feel like you miss on some utility by running Wailord instead of other huge HP mons.
The main problem with wailord is that it's too damn obvious from team preview what it's gonna be. And unless you want to use this fact to play some mind games (which I wouldn't really recommend) Chansey does basically the same thing except it bluffs another set in team preview and has more HP, meaning you can potentially get rid of Zygod or an opposing imposter Chansey by sacking your own. Chansey without Eviolithe and minimal investment has pretty mediocre bulk anyway, Psystrike or Secret Sword from mmy easily OHKO it.
Also even thought it's a deadweight set that's just there to die, I'm pretty sure there are better movepool options. Stealth rocks for one would be an obvious choice and I've faced a few hazard stacking innards out Blissey on the ladder. Final Gambit is another option for when your opponent knows your set and is avoiding to Kill you or smt.
Another mon that could feel this role is Guzzlord which has more HP than Zygod, but also has a pretty decent offensive presence if you run it with Malicious Moonsault. Up to you thought.
Okay, so now I have this:
Chansey @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Entrainment
- Soft-Boiled
- Final Gambit

16 Def means that this thing will die.

I can also have this:

Guzzlord @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Malicious Moonsault
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Final Gambit

I was also thinking of replacing Venusaur-Mega with this suicide lead:
Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Genesis Supernova
- Catastropika
- Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike
- Explosion

Basically you lead with this and do as much damage as you can before finally just exploding.
Use Genesis Supernova to summon Psychic Terrain and make sure that no one uses priority before killing or at least to some serious damage.
 
Last edited: