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Man though, talking about the Bane. Fuck that shit broke my heart. He was basically used his entire life and he had no choice, he never grew up past being a little child (in maturity). And like he was prophesied too, so even before he was born people were already deciding what he was going to be. It's so sad man, and freaking dark for a kid's book to have the most dangerous thing alive to be basically a giant baby.

- a giant baby who dies and never gets a shot at redemption despite really being an innocent victim. That's what makes it dark. I guess that's why I wanted him to decide that he really did want to be evil. Because how it turned out, he died and was never truly evil, just unsure of himself and just doing what others told him he should be. Usually children's books are filled with messages of "be what you want to be, nobody can tell you who you are" which means bad guys who aren't really bad guys, just being manipulated, usually get redeemed. Happens in almost every children's story, even Star Wars. But it didn't happen here.

i will now discuss divergent. Already it won some big points with me by creating a world similar to hunger games, where we have an alternate future america, but it's actually getting along fine rather than in HG where it's pure dystopia. Tris is just a girl that wants to follow the rules, she wants to conform rather than rebel. Instead of being put in a situation where rebellion is the prime option (katniss, as in "I need to kill these 24 people or else i die, lol", btw tangent time the lines when katniss talks about killing are actually fairly good, like when she killed the guy that kills prim out of revenge, she says she doesn't even remember what he looked like), but yeah instead of being PUT in the situation, Tris really makes her own choice. She's selfish and chooses dauntless over her family, then again adapts to conform. Trying your hardest to conform when you might not be the best at it is a lot stronger than trying to rebel, because imo it' smore difficult. It's pretty easy to be different for the sake of it (I would know I do it all the time with popular stuff LOL). So tris is a much stronger character.

The close supporting characters are so strong. I forget their names :( but her circle of people is balanced with strong personalities. Plus, tris + four's romance is really well done. Not only that, but it's kept consistent throughout the entire series. Love is a very central motivation in serveral characters, and it's not forgotten in book 3.

I really enjoy the fantasy aspect of facing your own fears. Tris is precise, and her Special Dystopia Power of being able to recognize simulations is actually pretty accurate rather than just being super archer or super person (as other dystopias do).

Now onto a topic that I feel is actually one of the strognest points of the series, and her character. Blending the above issue with female empowerment here: one of tris's 5 fears is sex/rape, but not in the traditional sense. Due to her background of the Monk Clan sex/reavealing clothes are bad. But one of her fears is specifically intimacy with her boyfriend, as in him not respecting her boundaries. But instead of the..."traditional??" 'fear of rape', in the fear simulation it's more just normal sex that she's afraid of at first. The response from her (quoted as I can remember) is something liek "oh, of course. THIS is the fear." like that makes sense. Her response to it is realizing it's not real and being all "we are NOT going to have sex in a simulation" and shutting the program down (but with the implication that they are definitely going to have sex later when they're down with it). Basically I believe that understanding your flaws and moving past them makes you an incredibly strong human being. Tris comes from a sex-negative background/culture and adjusts herself at her own pace. I have rambled on this for far too long,,,,, lmaoo, it's slightly creepy BUT I feel that this is something that NO OTHER Female Dystopian First Person Young Adult Novel did, and I REALLY applaud it for being strong and unique in this regard. As a man, of course, I have no opinion on the matter but lol.

Moving on, I find that the villain of Divergent is a lot more complex of a character. Not too much to say here. But now the caveat: I think divergent went SERIOUSLY downhill as the series went on. It just tried to get too "out there". Idk if you've read the 3rd book, but i felt the big twist was a really shitty reveal. That said, I think SPOILERS SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS the way she sacrificed herself was really strong and fit her character perfectly SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS.



On a related note: I think the movie adaptation of divergent was VERY hurtful. It took a LOT of artistic liberties that totally ruined some core mechancis, like the whole fear simulation thing was changed. And book 2 was swapped a LOT, which was super stupid, and her resisting interrogation by the villain in 2's movie was so stupid. But i think stylistically it was a great interpretation of the book. So i think it's "better than average" for book-to-movie adaptations, but it was VERY unfaithful to the actual book. So it's a complicated opinion. But I still like it more than hunger games move, which also did some stylistic things i didn't like, because I think divergent is just THAT good.

And the build up to The Bane too, oml. Like you hear about him in Book 2 and you're on this journey with Gregor and you're ready for this epic fight and then it's like "nope, we're not having a climax! it's actually this baby!"

and then like bam, he's out of the story. Book 3 doesn't have him at all, in book 4 he's around again in like 2 or 3 scenes, and you can see him start to fall in with the wrong crowd. then in book 5 bam he's full blown main villain and then you finally get the fight. Collins wrote it so brilliantly, like just the reservation and build up to it so that's it's this huge thing that was such a long time coming. So good.

fuck man this convo is too long

this is my favorite FDFPYAN: Starters

"Callie lost her parents when the Spore Wars wiped out everyone between the ages of twenty and sixty. She and her little brother, Tyler, go on the run, living as squatters with their friend Michael and fighting off renegades who would kill them for a cookie. Callie's only hope is Prime Destinations, a disturbing place in Beverly Hills run by a mysterious figure known as the Old Man.

He hires teens to rent their bodies to Enders—seniors who want to be young again. Callie, desperate for the money that will keep her, Tyler, and Michael alive, agrees to be a donor. But the neurochip they place in Callie's head malfunctions and she wakes up in the life of her renter, living in her mansion, driving her cars, and going out with a senator's grandson. It feels almost like a fairy tale, until Callie discovers that her renter intends to do more than party—and that Prime Destinations' plans are more evil than Callie could ever have imagined. . . ."

Matched is also fucking hilarious lmaooo, ahven't read it though so it could be interesting. Hunger Games basically replaced the entire teen romace genre. Some are really good and explore new though, like unwind and city of bones.

agreed, the bane as a central plot instrument is fantastically well done. Book 3 is probably my favorite though, as usually that's when writers wind up getting better (like harry potter or artemis fowl), but that's probably cause as a kid i thougth plague was super creepy. I think book 5 is my favorite if I look back now and think about it though.

man if i knew you didnt read hunger games then I could have saved so much time. grr. But imo you should check both them out, i'd like to see some of your thoughts as well. Overall they're both great stories.

I clearly said in the 4th message in this thread that I never read The Hunger Games.

And I read the beginning of Divergent and didn't really like it so I stopped. The movie just seemed very average and unambitious to me. Just very by-the-numbers.

I do like to read the author's blog once in a while though, she puts some nice stuff on there.

how am i that blind, hahahahah

This is a good thread tho, I'm fairly certain my Sharp Art Analysis abilities are what got me cleared to write for jap

Japan?

Yes

Really?

100 percent sure

what do you do