Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

I Just want to take a whole overwiew on the meta rn bec im bored lol
GOOD MONS OR META DEFINERS (very few/none)
:dondozo: :iron valiant: :greninja: :gholdengo: :donphan: :flutter mane: :meowscarada: :Annhilappe:
first lets see dondozo it has alot of sets band,mental herb,etc it was a counter to chi yu the rampager of the meta since it was banned Its droppong of use only good mons it beats are donphan which is definetly the worst of these mons it loses to tbolt gholdengo,specs valiant it defo wins greninja the recent hottake,flutter mane the meowscarada counter and after the chi yu quick ban inferno dondozo should drop in usage but im not sure


valiant time has some sets booster speed encore disable,specs,band etc its counter gholdengo, mane are two of the best mons in ladder which is a realy hard hit on the mon asside that it beats random mons and mostly all of the above exept mane and ghold and it has a good position in the meta
oh and it also loses to scarf meowscarada


greninja is just the hottake ppl r interested in using this mon bec this mon is usable after 2gens as the national dex thingy
it has protean and basicaly just acts as a worse prim(hydro torent) thats all for grenin i bet its usage will criple after some time


gholdengo i have a seperate post for this thing im tired to talk about about this shit basicaly ban it

donphan it is used with gholdengo and valiant it beats an abundant amount of mons it is good and its the most popular mon on high lladder
it ohkos mane,grenin,50/50 ape and so on

flutter mane skipper is goated ohkos everything with booster sucks in def snarl set is hated by me gets ohkoed loses to that volcarona thingy
loses to ape

meowscarada protean is good i thought something imagine youre chi yu scarf and you overheat and meowscarda just scraf chillin waters you
and youre outraged reasonably this thing is just unpredictable



ape-idk this beats mane phan,dozo and most of all the good mons this thing is good but nt banworthy in my oppinion

at the end of the day the moral is if you ban a mon another mon gets banworthy(for ex if you ban gholdengo valiant will be suspected)
also the goat bored_glitch isnt locked on ps so hurrah
 
Arvinraj K III C said:
I Just want to take a whole overwiew on the meta rn bec im bored lol
GOOD MONS OR META DEFINERS (very few/none)
:dondozo: :iron valiant: :greninja: :gholdengo: :donphan: :flutter mane: :meowscarada: :Annhilappe:
first lets see dondozo it has alot of sets band,mental herb,etc it was a counter to chi yu the rampager of the meta since it was banned Its droppong of use only good mons it beats are donphan which is definetly the worst of these mons it loses to tbolt gholdengo,specs valiant it defo wins greninja the recent hottake,flutter mane the meowscarada counter and after the chi yu quick ban inferno dondozo should drop in usage but im not sure


valiant time has some sets booster speed encore disable,specs,band etc its counter gholdengo, mane are two of the best mons in ladder which is a realy hard hit on the mon asside that it beats random mons and mostly all of the above exept mane and ghold and it has a good position in the meta
oh and it also loses to scarf meowscarada


greninja is just the hottake ppl r interested in using this mon bec this mon is usable after 2gens as the national dex thingy
it has protean and basicaly just acts as a worse prim(hydro torent) thats all for grenin i bet its usage will criple after some time


gholdengo i have a seperate post for this thing im tired to talk about about this shit basicaly ban it

donphan it is used with gholdengo and valiant it beats an abundant amount of mons it is good and its the most popular mon on high lladder
it ohkos mane,grenin,50/50 ape and so on

flutter mane skipper is goated ohkos everything with booster sucks in def snarl set is hated by me gets ohkoed loses to that volcarona thingy
loses to ape

meowscarada protean is good i thought something imagine youre chi yu scarf and you overheat and meowscarda just scraf chillin waters you
and youre outraged reasonably this thing is just unpredictable



ape-idk this beats mane phan,dozo and most of all the good mons this thing is good but nt banworthy in my oppinion

at the end of the day the moral is if you ban a mon another mon gets banworthy(for ex if you ban gholdengo valiant will be suspected)
also the goat bored_glitch isnt locked on ps so hurrah
Click to expand...
dude i got locked again
 
Just wanted to pop in here and say that qualifying for BLT I've played this tier a number of times. And without a doubt, Iron Valiant is 100% uncompetitive and should be banned. It's Encore Disable set is stupidly good and is the most mindless strategy I've ever seen farm victories. Desperately needs a quick ban or a suspect test. Thats all I got to say!
 
justdrew said:
Just wanted to pop in here and say that qualifying for BLT I've played this tier a number of times. And without a doubt, Iron Valiant is 100% uncompetitive and should be banned. It's Encore Disable set is stupidly good and is the most mindless strategy I've ever seen farm victories. Desperately needs a quick ban or a suspect test. Thats all I got to say!
Click to expand...

Iron Valiant is a competitive Pokemon that has only seen less use as the generation goes on. It's completely balanced and doesn't warrant tiering action at all, I'm not here to change opinions but I would just like to talk abt where the Pokémon sits right now in the metagame. (At least in my opinion.)

Encore Disable, it's main set and the reason why it has garnered so much popularity has always been a useful combination of moves in 1v1 which can seem overbearing due to the fact of it locking you into struggle and then finishing you off. However, I would like to argue that the tactic isn't uncompetitive in its own right which I think you're trying to partially say here. The difference between the abuser and the actual moves is why we have Aromatisse in SS 1v1 but not Sableye and Iron Valiant in SV 1v1 but not Scream Tail.

There are many counters to the strategy: priority, switching moves (though this can not work for some Pokémon), and running less Choice items. Due to its reasonable to counter frailty, you can easily run teams which aren't even 2-0ed by the Pokémon (which i'd recommend in 1v1 due to the common appearance of top tiers, and because playing around 2-0s is never fun and can lead to an unnecessary coinflip.)

Sylveon being the renowned best Pokémon in the tier doesn't help Iron Valiant's case at all, losing to the Pokémon which I would say fits on the most teams. As well as this, general Fairy-type counters are ran which will also beat Iron Valiant. Take Corviknight, Skeledirge and Volcarona for example which gained their popularity from the absurd levels of power Fairy-types have gotten since Gholdengo's ban.

I'd like to link to the point I made in the 2nd paragraph a bit more. Unlike Scream Tail, which was a horrendously overpowered monster, Iron Valiant's flaws are more noticeable due to its lack of set variety, worse defensive typing (Even though the defensive typing is still useful) and its much lower defensive stats.




Edit:
Oh yeah, Gardevoir is seeing more use as well which furthers the point of Iron Valiant itself not being a problem. It isn't easily splashable on teams like other overpowered Encore Disablers are like SS Sableye and SV Scream Tail and therefore can be replaced for better fitting choices.
 
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Test 1604 (Iron Treads) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 144 HP / 180 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

Speed is to hit 323 to outspeed haxorus, def to hit 321 so booster energy hits speed and rest on hp for bulk for now

Just a theorymon I've been having fun with. Maybe AV set could work? is a banded version? Are the other Donphan versions are worth using over this? prolly yes to all of them. Still gonna throw my two cents out there, maybe inspire some more underrated sets and other underrated mons.
 
:sv/espathra:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-1859206420
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen91v1-1862946706

An analysis of non boosting item :volcarona: vs bulky :espathra: (assuming no boosting item on either side)
If :volcarona: spa >= 391: spamming bug buzz guaranteed wins.
If :volcarona: spa >= 362 : check speed for optimal play, but no bulk needed to win.

:volcarona: speed >= 309
Quiver Dance two or three times into bug buzz spam.
if spa <= 311: Bulk suggestion for if espathra roosts on a turn 3 bug buzz: [108 HP] OR [84 Spd].

:volcarona: speed >= 297:
Quiver dance three times into bug buzz spam.
if spa <= 311: Bulk suggestion for if espathra roosts on a turn 4 bug buzz: [248 HP and 104 Spd] OR [72 HP and 252 Spd].

:volcarona: speed < 297:
spa needs to be >= 350, quiver dance 4 times. Bulk suggestion: [36 hp or 28 Spd] so that you can ko +3 espthra at +5 if they stored power on turn 4, and to generally 2 hit them after a roost and live a +4 espathra stored power.

:volcarona: speed < 289:
run >= 391 spa to have a guaranteed winpath.

:volcarona: speed <= 247 --> asking to lose.

Quiver dancing too much makes espathra able to 2 hit volcarona through successive quiver dances, as such:

For :volcarona: with spa < 391 and speeds less than 289 where volcarona needs >= 5 quiver dances to be able to outpace espathra for two turns after speedboost, there is no guaranteed winpath for volcarona anymore as it is a bunch of 50/50s based on timing bug buzz/stored power correctly. Volcarona should still be favored however.
 
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Meowscarada doesn't have as much powerful options as the others, Cinderace has extremely powerful moves with high base power that it can make overwhelming by turning into STAB and Greninja has too much variety which makes it one of the best Pokémon on preview.

Meowscarada's physical movepool isn't so extensive, running STAB moves, Giga Impact and one of it's limited coverage as a moveset. It also uses a Substitute Leech Seed set which plays into it's Protean ability, allowing it to be a Normal-type which can be useful sometimes.

Meowscarada has limits and weaknesses. Greninja however, has way too many different type options which can make it insane on preview and Cinderace has great utility with Will O Wisp and has generally high base power moves. Think Pyro Ball, Gunk Shot, High Jump Kick.
 
1684594321764.png

tourban this guy
 
According to the recent potential banlist of 1v1 cinderace and chi yu had a relative close vote, so would they ever be tested in 1v1 or would they just be doomed forever
 
Opinion on SV post-home unhealthiness;
  • Greninja
  • Gholdengo
  • Hoopa-U
  • Meloetta
in that order.

I think getting rid of greninja first will make the meta a bit more healthy. I'm not too sold on hoopa-u being the terror of sv 1v1 it's a more "healthy" threat than gren and gholdengo. Ghold might act fall of as weeks pass but I think it's uncheesable factor makes it a fantastic mon, specially when paired with stuff that can overload the preview i.e. Hoopa-U, Regidrago, Meloetta. Ghldengo paired with these mons is actually more threatening that the mons alone. I classify it more as "unhealthy" than broken.

I think gren/ghold can cheese their checks better than Hoopa-U. Hoopa-U is held back by its speed and can get beaten it has a harder time than gren and ghold to adapt back and running a bug move isn't that restricting on some mons. I'm not saying that it can't get better but rn, its pretty good but not broken.
 
DEG said:
Opinion on SV post-home unhealthiness;
  • Greninja
  • Gholdengo
  • Hoopa-U
  • Meloetta
in that order.

I think getting rid of greninja first will make the meta a bit more healthy. I'm not too sold on hoopa-u being the terror of sv 1v1 it's a more "healthy" threat than gren and gholdengo. Ghold might act fall of as weeks pass but I think it's uncheesable factor makes it a fantastic mon, specially when paired with stuff that can overload the preview i.e. Hoopa-U, Regidrago, Meloetta. Ghldengo paired with these mons is actually more threatening that the mons alone. I classify it more as "unhealthy" than broken.

I think gren/ghold can cheese their checks better than Hoopa-U. Hoopa-U is held back by its speed and can get beaten it has a harder time than gren and ghold to adapt back and running a bug move isn't that restricting on some mons. I'm not saying that it can't get better but rn, its pretty good but not broken.
Click to expand...
"Cheese their checks" is all im taking from this, its funnier than it should be
 
Now that the new toy syndrome is starting to wear off I wanted to give my thoughts on the post-home meta. Some general thoughts are that this meta is bit of a clusterfuck right now. It might be more interesting than pre-home but it's definitely worse but that should improve over time, especially since we finally(!!!) have our first SV team tour, PL, to help speed development along. My main issue is that there's so many mons right now that demand attention that it's extremely difficult to cover them all so building feels more like trying to cover 5 mons and praying I don't get fished but mayb I just need to l2p.

pre-home mons
:iron valiant::meowscarada:
I think these 2 are the best legal pre-home mons in post-home meta currently. Encore disable valiant feels like it fell off but offensive valiant is so so good right now since it beats a lot of spammed mons like hoopa, good ursaluna mu, hoodra, decent gren mu, and so on. It's been very reliable for me these first few days. I think meow is pretty good right now mostly because it has good matchups into a lot of the mons people are calling broken. Scarf can handle hoopa and gren which is really hard to do otherwise.

SS mons of interest
:Spectrier::haxorus:
I think spect is in a weird spot because it loses to a lot of the current spam like hoopa, gren, ghold, ursaluna, drago, and melo but after that I really like its matchup spread. Draining kiss is neat and allows it to pretty reliably beat urshifu now in a similar way to what pult could do back in SS. We'll have to see how tiering goes but if some of the stuff above it gets yeeted spect could become a huge threat. Then I think band haxorus is really strong right now. First impression goes harder than ever and you beat non scarf drago which is epic. I expect hax to fall off in the future but for now it's really solid.

Home mons
:hoopa-unbound:
This mon is really good right now, buuuut i wouldn't call it super broken. What hoopa does well is it's a great blanket check to like most of the tier, but it can't work through its checks like gren can. I'd still call it the best mon in the meta even if I don't find it particularly infuriating to cover yet and I think it's pretty warping in the builder in tier filled with insane builder threats. 4.5/5 threat, Would not be opposed to a suspect on hoopa before pl.

:Greninja:
Imo gren struggles a bit with sharing the spotlight with hoopa. Hoopa in general just covers more better. Gren loses to ghold and melo while hoopa wins which is a pretty rough drawback. That being said I do find it harder to reliably cover gren than hoopa just because of the options protean allows. If hoopa ends up going I could see gren taking over the tier very quickly. 4/5 threat but only because people aren't abusing it yet

:Gholdengo:
This mon honestly feels fine to me. A lot of the new mons like lando, heatran, shifu, hoopa, ursaluna, etc are all pretty good into it. In my opinion the most annoying thing about this mon is covering it alongside hoopa, gren, regidrago, melo, etc because there isn't a ton of overlap across all those mons. Ghold itself has enough options as counters though imo, 2/5 threat.

:meloetta:
Melo is really good at the moment and very difficult to cover alongside hoopa. It has some cool options in cm sets which haven't been explored in previous generations and I think that's super cool. However, that does make it a pain in the ass to cover in the builder. I'd say just run physical mons but it does learn charm to watch out lol. That being said I think it's fine for now and a lot of the pain comes from having to cover it alongside all the other super good mons in one team. 2/5 threat

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These were just some quick thoughts for now that i wanted to get out. I hope home has been what y'all were dreaming it would be and I'm excited to see it in pl soon. That's all from me for now, but expect OTR to open up in the near future oo
 
Hoopa is pretty broken and can run a lot of sets to beat almost every mon in the meta rn well keeping its core mus.

Most of the sets I have posted will be labeled with what they beat but some are not so if you have questions about evs ask the damage calc

anti-hoopa-unbound hoopa-unbound (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 HP / 100 Atk / 152 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt

chomp band (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Punch
- Hyperspace Fury
- Zen Headbutt

both avaluggs (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Knot
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Trick

best ursa mu (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 168 HP / 72 Def / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Knot
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Trick

goodrah (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 48 SpA / 96 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast

physical scarf (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 72 HP / 104 Atk / 88 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Hyperspace Fury
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt

focus blast scarf (pao sucker punch) (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 12 HP / 8 Atk / 244 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Hyperspace Fury
- Ice Punch
- Focus Blast

anti-sturdy av (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Atk / 104 Def / 8 SpA / 76 SpD / 20 Spe
Mild Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Psychic
- Knock Off

sub breaker av (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 244 HP / 84 Atk / 180 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Punch

brazy lo(ting lu) (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 28 SpA / 40 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Gunk Shot
- Dark Pulse

cuck protect (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Punch

sub breaker + anti-sturdy (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 152 HP / 240 Def / 20 SpA / 96 Spe
Lax Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
- Skill Swap

tanga pult (fake) (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Protect
- Dark Pulse

tanga gren (fake) (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Tanga Berry
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 56 HP / 196 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Psychic
- Hyperspace Fury
 
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SwordIsBored said:
Meowscarada doesn't have as much powerful options as the others, Cinderace has extremely powerful moves with high base power that it can make overwhelming by turning into STAB and Greninja has too much variety which makes it one of the best Pokémon on preview.

Meowscarada's physical movepool isn't so extensive, running STAB moves, Giga Impact and one of it's limited coverage as a moveset. It also uses a Substitute Leech Seed set which plays into it's Protean ability, allowing it to be a Normal-type which can be useful sometimes.

Meowscarada has limits and weaknesses. Greninja however, has way too many different type options which can make it insane on preview and Cinderace has great utility with Will O Wisp and has generally high base power moves. Think Pyro Ball, Gunk Shot, High Jump Kick.
Click to expand...
thank you
 
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