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2016/17 Soccer/Football Thread
- Thread starter Aurious
- Start date
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I remember there was a team who finished with just 11 points a few seasons ago. That was worse than Villa, imo
Was that Derby County? IIRC they also lost to Championship teams in both FA Cup and League Cup to top it off
Didn't remember which team though. But yeah, said team was really horrid to set that record
It was Derby County.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Premier_League#League_table
I know its wikipedia but can't be bothered to find different site
West Brom Numba One #Baggies
Arsenal v Everton made no damn sense.
It's our fault for not clicking anything together after our first goal in the final third and just being very average. No real intensity. Everton with a dodgy win thanks to Ozil and company with their lazy zonal marking and not challenging headers. Everton shouldn't have won that game with the quality we have and should produce, but Arsenal definitely didn't deserve the win either.
Sanchez can't be the only flair we have.
It's our fault for not clicking anything together after our first goal in the final third and just being very average. No real intensity. Everton with a dodgy win thanks to Ozil and company with their lazy zonal marking and not challenging headers. Everton shouldn't have won that game with the quality we have and should produce, but Arsenal definitely didn't deserve the win either.
Sanchez can't be the only flair we have.
Guardiola vs Wenger is a massive match for both teams who are both needing wins. As similar as their teams sometimes seem to play, this is actually quite a fundamental clash of managerial styles.
Guardiola's famous and often imitated philosophy is one that requires extreme compactness around the ball. This massive overload around the ball means that passes are naturally short which also means the ball changes position and direction quickly thus making it hard for defenders to mark. The short passes also mean if the ball is lost, there is always a large number of players around it to win it back straight away. The consequence is that it leaves an underloaded space on the opposite side of the pitch (strategically the least important area) and teams can bypass the press with a long ball out of pressure. This is where the sweeper keeper makes up for the numerical disadvantage by coming out as an outfield player and mopping up any long balls. Guardiola's teams are well drilled on the training pitch where they are explicitly taught how to achieve optimal positioning in every instance and you often see Guardiola on the touchline shouting instructions and telling his players where they need to be. When it pays off it is spectacular because of how impossibly fast the passes are.
Wenger's style is also possession orientated which naturally also requires a compact shape and a high line; however he prefers a fluid approach both to football and to coaching. Instead of telling his players what to do and where to be, he seems to prefer to teach them the fundamentals of football and then trust their football intelligence to dynamically adapt and express themselves on match day. This is why he is never on the touchline bellowing instructions even when there is something clearly wrong. Arsenal's attacks have often been disconnected with too many players taking up positions in similar areas and defensively sometimes they press together and sometimes they don't. It's all very disorganised and unpredictable for both fans and opponents alike but it does produce spectacular goals like Wilshere vs Norwich where the improvisation and individual quality all clicks into place and it's impossible for an opponent to defend.
I personally think Wenger's most inspirational trait and his greatest failing is that he is a purist in the truest sense of the word. Guardiola's positional play and counter pressing is extremely effective and he tactically tweaks every aspect of his system before a match to target the opponent's weakest areas. Wenger's teams rarely adapt tactically to anyone and he sends them out almost saying try to beat us if you can (and in most cases for Ferguson and Mourinho, and I hope not Guardiola too, they do). In that sense Guardiola and the modern coaches like Klopp, Tuschel, Conte, Mourinho are coaches focused on winning. They might have different footballing philosophies (compact around the ball, compact in the middle, compact in defence etc.) but their coaching philosophy is the same, to make sure the players are well drilled and playing in a watertight system; while, for me, Wenger is a coach focused on football. I'm sure he has the capacity to change his teams to suit the opposition but he chooses not to, instead analysing where matches have gone wrong 1 on 1 with his players AFTER the match - educating them and hoping it will increase their overall match intelligence. It might be that he has been influenced too much by English football. Continental sides have always had more tactical coaching and awareness while the English game is primarily about 1 vs 1s and individual quality. A long ball destroys all tactics about compactness and positioning and introduces an instant 1 vs 1 at the destination of the pass. This is why teams in the PL are not compact and matches are often end to end with lots of goals. Even Guardiola and Klopp are finding it difficult to keep things tight at the back despite their tactically optimal strategies because their opponents are wide open and like to stretch them that way too.
On paper I think a well drilled system should always have an advantage against an unorganised team so I am not optimistic. However Wenger has, for the first time in a long time, a group of players that he has taught and coached for many years without selling the best components. This is why I think this year is the best chance yet that Wenger has a group of players that is at the level required to win the title with the main challengers all adapting to new coaches. Conte has unfortunately surprised everyone with how well he has implemented his system so that might be down the drain already but today's match should still be a titanic clash of the purist and the pragmatist. And despite what the media and mainstream pundits might like you to believe, the pragmatist is the one with all of the titles!
Guardiola's famous and often imitated philosophy is one that requires extreme compactness around the ball. This massive overload around the ball means that passes are naturally short which also means the ball changes position and direction quickly thus making it hard for defenders to mark. The short passes also mean if the ball is lost, there is always a large number of players around it to win it back straight away. The consequence is that it leaves an underloaded space on the opposite side of the pitch (strategically the least important area) and teams can bypass the press with a long ball out of pressure. This is where the sweeper keeper makes up for the numerical disadvantage by coming out as an outfield player and mopping up any long balls. Guardiola's teams are well drilled on the training pitch where they are explicitly taught how to achieve optimal positioning in every instance and you often see Guardiola on the touchline shouting instructions and telling his players where they need to be. When it pays off it is spectacular because of how impossibly fast the passes are.
Wenger's style is also possession orientated which naturally also requires a compact shape and a high line; however he prefers a fluid approach both to football and to coaching. Instead of telling his players what to do and where to be, he seems to prefer to teach them the fundamentals of football and then trust their football intelligence to dynamically adapt and express themselves on match day. This is why he is never on the touchline bellowing instructions even when there is something clearly wrong. Arsenal's attacks have often been disconnected with too many players taking up positions in similar areas and defensively sometimes they press together and sometimes they don't. It's all very disorganised and unpredictable for both fans and opponents alike but it does produce spectacular goals like Wilshere vs Norwich where the improvisation and individual quality all clicks into place and it's impossible for an opponent to defend.
I personally think Wenger's most inspirational trait and his greatest failing is that he is a purist in the truest sense of the word. Guardiola's positional play and counter pressing is extremely effective and he tactically tweaks every aspect of his system before a match to target the opponent's weakest areas. Wenger's teams rarely adapt tactically to anyone and he sends them out almost saying try to beat us if you can (and in most cases for Ferguson and Mourinho, and I hope not Guardiola too, they do). In that sense Guardiola and the modern coaches like Klopp, Tuschel, Conte, Mourinho are coaches focused on winning. They might have different footballing philosophies (compact around the ball, compact in the middle, compact in defence etc.) but their coaching philosophy is the same, to make sure the players are well drilled and playing in a watertight system; while, for me, Wenger is a coach focused on football. I'm sure he has the capacity to change his teams to suit the opposition but he chooses not to, instead analysing where matches have gone wrong 1 on 1 with his players AFTER the match - educating them and hoping it will increase their overall match intelligence. It might be that he has been influenced too much by English football. Continental sides have always had more tactical coaching and awareness while the English game is primarily about 1 vs 1s and individual quality. A long ball destroys all tactics about compactness and positioning and introduces an instant 1 vs 1 at the destination of the pass. This is why teams in the PL are not compact and matches are often end to end with lots of goals. Even Guardiola and Klopp are finding it difficult to keep things tight at the back despite their tactically optimal strategies because their opponents are wide open and like to stretch them that way too.
On paper I think a well drilled system should always have an advantage against an unorganised team so I am not optimistic. However Wenger has, for the first time in a long time, a group of players that he has taught and coached for many years without selling the best components. This is why I think this year is the best chance yet that Wenger has a group of players that is at the level required to win the title with the main challengers all adapting to new coaches. Conte has unfortunately surprised everyone with how well he has implemented his system so that might be down the drain already but today's match should still be a titanic clash of the purist and the pragmatist. And despite what the media and mainstream pundits might like you to believe, the pragmatist is the one with all of the titles!
Not sure why this result is a disappointment, Arsenal has been the worse team in all the 'big' games this season with the exception of the 3-0 v Chelsea. This is just regression to the mean imo.
Man city got lucky with the offside decision though
Liverpool Derby always gives a chaotic show
Ref was a disgrace. It should have seen several dismissals. We deserved to win though; Neverton didn't really attack. Sturridge was quality and made the difference.
Could Liverpool or Manchester City stop Chelsea in the title race? I think defense is the biggest problem of these two teams, unlike the blues.
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