-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS OU .
- Thread starter Ramses
- Start date
Just a few ideas, although this a brilliant team. Serperior might want HP [Fire], Glare, Taunt, Synthesis as fillers for other slots. Miracle Seed might be a bit better as 1.2x on Giga Drain and Leaf Storm is still good, and no 10% HP Drop is worth it. 244 Speed on Heatran to outspeed that variant and use Earth Power and give it a smack. A Defogger would be nice but anyway. Sorry if the thoughts are all over the place, but I'm in a rush so yeah! Great job
EDIT: Thundurus is missing a move in importable
EDIT: Thundurus is missing a move in importable
Hi KidMagic, so although you have two boosting 'Mons, I presume this team is more about luring the right 'Mons w/ Thund, Azu, n' Serp to set up a nice clean with either Hoopa vs. Offense or Medicham vs. balance w/ Heatran as support, so the changes I make will be based on this assumption and your team building process.
I think you should go with Prankster > Defiant and Thunder Wave > Knock Off on Thundurus. Your team has numerous ways of dealing with Lati@s as it is (especially with TauntTrapTran), and honestly I don't think Defiant is doing much for you here with Fighting/Dark as your physical coverage. Thunder Wave allows you to check set-up sweepers that really give your team trouble, like Charizard-X, Altaria (Jolly Altaria, a pretty prevalent set, can get a boost on Serperior, Hoopa, or Thundurus, OHKO Azumarill after Rocks and outspeed Hoopa, and sweep the rest of your team), Mega Gyarados, Mega Ttar, etc. Also, TWave allows you to threaten Alakazam and Aerodactyl, two Pokemon that outspeed Hoopa and can run through your team if Azumarill is chipped.
To remedy the offensive pressure lost with Knock Off, I would use Toxic > Flash Cannon on Heatran. Flash Cannon with almost no SpAtk investment isn't making much of a difference against Fairies here. I assume you're currently using it to hit Clefable, which is beaten by Taunt + Magma Storm already, and doesn't have much room to set up given all the offensive pressure you already pack on this team. Faster/boosting Fairies such as Altaria and Diancie typically pack coverage to beat Heatran regardless, and Taunt + Toxic beats all the bulky Refresh/CG Altaria sets anyway. Toxic allows Heatran to check other boosting threats such as Charizard-X and Volcarona, putting timers on them. It helps a ton though with bulky Pokemon such as Hippo, Slowbro, Cress, SpDef Talonflame, Mew, and Tyranitar, which really helps your heavy hitters (Hoopa, Thundurus, Medicham) break through opposing bulky balance teams. Also, I'd just run max speed on Heatran; the difference in damage output is negligible and sometimes getting the faster Taunt on opposing Heatran (preventing Rocks n' stuff!) could be worth it in certain situations.
As a nitpick, I'd heavily consider going max speed on Hoopa, since getting the jump on ScarfTran is awesome, as well as being able to at worst speed tie with +1 Altaria, which can grab a boost on a number of Pokemon and sweep your team (it OHKOs Azumarill after Rocks). This isn't really as relevant though if you implement the next change I'm suggesting, but it's a real change of pace from the original build so I understand if that's like, not something you're into.
Finally, I'd suggest a change of Slowbro > Azumarill. While this makes your team weaker to Weavile (although given Poison Jab Azu can be a shaky Weavile check as it is), Slowbro really helps out your team in terms of giving you a Scald absorber (a really solid Keldeo switch-in, which you currently lack), a physical weather check (meaning Excadrill, Kabutops and Swampert don't run through your team), and a Fighting switch-in (to opposing 'Mons like Medicham and Lopunny, which you basically rely on Hoopa just to RK). It gives you an easier time against some other physical threats like opposing Azumarill, Altaria, and Jolly Talonflame, especially since Heatran can be chipped easily, and generally helps your Pokemon by spreading residual damage through burns. You can run Fire Blast > Psyshock since Keldeo still doesn't break you any time soon, and this gives you a much more direct way of luring Ferrothorn, rather than having to find a chance to BD and then Knock Off with Azumarill. Fire Blast also allows you to handle Weavile to an extent, sponging a Knock Off and then KOing it after Rocks + LO damage. Although since you can smack Weavile w/ TWave, I'd also suggest keeping Psyshock and throwing on HP Fire > HP Rock on Serperior, since Thund is gonna be your main weapon vs. ZardY and Slowbro + Heatran can handle Flying-types well enough so that Serperior can sweep with a bit more ease (and also prevent Bisharp from setting up, which is big!). Just having the better coverage overall is awesome pretty nice imo.
^ With this change you can keep Knock Off on Thundurus, although you'll still lose out to some stuff like Alakazam if you don't keep Hoopa healthy
Anyway, there are some things I didn't really address, like a Bisharp weakness, but I think these changes will make your team more consistent and ultimately better support your heavy hitters to comfortably clean late game.
TL;DR -
(set)
(set)
->
I think you should go with Prankster > Defiant and Thunder Wave > Knock Off on Thundurus. Your team has numerous ways of dealing with Lati@s as it is (especially with TauntTrapTran), and honestly I don't think Defiant is doing much for you here with Fighting/Dark as your physical coverage. Thunder Wave allows you to check set-up sweepers that really give your team trouble, like Charizard-X, Altaria (Jolly Altaria, a pretty prevalent set, can get a boost on Serperior, Hoopa, or Thundurus, OHKO Azumarill after Rocks and outspeed Hoopa, and sweep the rest of your team), Mega Gyarados, Mega Ttar, etc. Also, TWave allows you to threaten Alakazam and Aerodactyl, two Pokemon that outspeed Hoopa and can run through your team if Azumarill is chipped.
To remedy the offensive pressure lost with Knock Off, I would use Toxic > Flash Cannon on Heatran. Flash Cannon with almost no SpAtk investment isn't making much of a difference against Fairies here. I assume you're currently using it to hit Clefable, which is beaten by Taunt + Magma Storm already, and doesn't have much room to set up given all the offensive pressure you already pack on this team. Faster/boosting Fairies such as Altaria and Diancie typically pack coverage to beat Heatran regardless, and Taunt + Toxic beats all the bulky Refresh/CG Altaria sets anyway. Toxic allows Heatran to check other boosting threats such as Charizard-X and Volcarona, putting timers on them. It helps a ton though with bulky Pokemon such as Hippo, Slowbro, Cress, SpDef Talonflame, Mew, and Tyranitar, which really helps your heavy hitters (Hoopa, Thundurus, Medicham) break through opposing bulky balance teams. Also, I'd just run max speed on Heatran; the difference in damage output is negligible and sometimes getting the faster Taunt on opposing Heatran (preventing Rocks n' stuff!) could be worth it in certain situations.
As a nitpick, I'd heavily consider going max speed on Hoopa, since getting the jump on ScarfTran is awesome, as well as being able to at worst speed tie with +1 Altaria, which can grab a boost on a number of Pokemon and sweep your team (it OHKOs Azumarill after Rocks). This isn't really as relevant though if you implement the next change I'm suggesting, but it's a real change of pace from the original build so I understand if that's like, not something you're into.
Finally, I'd suggest a change of Slowbro > Azumarill. While this makes your team weaker to Weavile (although given Poison Jab Azu can be a shaky Weavile check as it is), Slowbro really helps out your team in terms of giving you a Scald absorber (a really solid Keldeo switch-in, which you currently lack), a physical weather check (meaning Excadrill, Kabutops and Swampert don't run through your team), and a Fighting switch-in (to opposing 'Mons like Medicham and Lopunny, which you basically rely on Hoopa just to RK). It gives you an easier time against some other physical threats like opposing Azumarill, Altaria, and Jolly Talonflame, especially since Heatran can be chipped easily, and generally helps your Pokemon by spreading residual damage through burns. You can run Fire Blast > Psyshock since Keldeo still doesn't break you any time soon, and this gives you a much more direct way of luring Ferrothorn, rather than having to find a chance to BD and then Knock Off with Azumarill. Fire Blast also allows you to handle Weavile to an extent, sponging a Knock Off and then KOing it after Rocks + LO damage. Although since you can smack Weavile w/ TWave, I'd also suggest keeping Psyshock and throwing on HP Fire > HP Rock on Serperior, since Thund is gonna be your main weapon vs. ZardY and Slowbro + Heatran can handle Flying-types well enough so that Serperior can sweep with a bit more ease (and also prevent Bisharp from setting up, which is big!). Just having the better coverage overall is awesome pretty nice imo.
^ With this change you can keep Knock Off on Thundurus, although you'll still lose out to some stuff like Alakazam if you don't keep Hoopa healthy
Anyway, there are some things I didn't really address, like a Bisharp weakness, but I think these changes will make your team more consistent and ultimately better support your heavy hitters to comfortably clean late game.
TL;DR -
Last edited:
While this works, you may want to consider the safer play of getting a +2 Leaf Storm boost off the Talonflame switch-in, then tanking a Brave Bird with Coba Berry for the guaranteed OHKO, even against SpDef variants (provided it's Brave Bird and not Acrobatics). While predicting the switch-in works, it loses to SpDef variants anyways after 1 BB and 2 rounds of LO damage. Coba allows it to keep the dream going against its most common revenge-killer, and allows you to free up your Giga Drain slot for something else, if you choose to.
Again, predicting the switch-in works fine, but it's far more dangerous against SpDef Talonflame, which can reasonably tank the hit (especially with Leftovers).
I think you should change the Hoopa-U Moveset to LO/Lefties as it gets punished by better scarfers like Lando-T regardless, while the LO set is slower than Volcarona It still cant do much to it anyways, plus it gets locked in one move, which is bad (Uses gunk shot on a Fairy, Fairy switches to Heatran, forced switch). Try this set
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch/PuP
- Zen Headbutt/Psychic/Pup
Why: The 224 IV's Outspeed Jolly Mega Scizor's U-turn and OHKO with Fire Punch, and can kill a weakened Rotom-W before the Volt Switch/Will-O. The Max Attack make its attacking moves stronger. Focus Blast is not a great option since it tends to miss quite a lot, and does not take out Scizor in one hit (252+ SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 160-189 (56.9 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) Fire Punch can be replaced with Power-Up Punch to Counter Heatran, and gain Attack, but Scizor become a prominent threat with Hoopa-U, because if you switch to Tran It can kill with Superpower (252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Hoopa: 269-317 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO, so no risks there). Zen Headbutt allows it to move the Sp.Attack EV's to HP, and make it a Adamant nature. Psychic Hits Defensive walls Like Skarm, even Though Fire Punch deals more Damage, it is used to get around the Rocky Helmet. Power-Up-Punch lets you set up and Wall Break Even Harder. Hyperspace fury is for Stab and hitting through Protect abusers, while Gunk Shot decimates any fairy types in its path.
Note: If Altaria-M is a problem, Running a Jolly (Hasty if Running Psychic) Nature outspeeds Adamant Max Speed M-Altaria and Speed Ties with Jolly M-Altaria
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch/PuP
- Zen Headbutt/Psychic/Pup
Why: The 224 IV's Outspeed Jolly Mega Scizor's U-turn and OHKO with Fire Punch, and can kill a weakened Rotom-W before the Volt Switch/Will-O. The Max Attack make its attacking moves stronger. Focus Blast is not a great option since it tends to miss quite a lot, and does not take out Scizor in one hit (252+ SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 160-189 (56.9 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) Fire Punch can be replaced with Power-Up Punch to Counter Heatran, and gain Attack, but Scizor become a prominent threat with Hoopa-U, because if you switch to Tran It can kill with Superpower (252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Hoopa: 269-317 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO, so no risks there). Zen Headbutt allows it to move the Sp.Attack EV's to HP, and make it a Adamant nature. Psychic Hits Defensive walls Like Skarm, even Though Fire Punch deals more Damage, it is used to get around the Rocky Helmet. Power-Up-Punch lets you set up and Wall Break Even Harder. Hyperspace fury is for Stab and hitting through Protect abusers, while Gunk Shot decimates any fairy types in its path.
Note: If Altaria-M is a problem, Running a Jolly (Hasty if Running Psychic) Nature outspeeds Adamant Max Speed M-Altaria and Speed Ties with Jolly M-Altaria
Last edited: