Challenge 4th Generation Battle Facilities Discussion and Records

[YHN_HGSS]

What's the best EV Spread for Trick Latias? Gengar I'm guessing is 6 HP 252 SpA 252 Spe
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Hooo. Breeding a Garchomp for the Tower was quite a bit of work. Surprisingly, it was pretty fun. Except for the final push, I wanted to get an Outstanding Garchomp with Jolly nature, as I had one but with Adamant nature. I had to settle for Relatively Superior Jolly Garchomp, but honestly the difference should be negligible, that was just me being whimsical.
Then comes the rest of the team. I really like Gengar, unfortunately there was (probably) no way for me to obtain him. Fortunately for me, I already had two Gengars in my box from 16 years ago. Unfortunately for me, none of them were Timid. Fortunately for me, one of them is Rash, which I can work with. Unfortunately for me... I would have to grind EV reducing Berries. Not really hard but a bit annoying. Fortunately for me, I had at least one Berry of each type.
And the last one.
Latias. This one is a bit of a sore spot... Did you really have to be Sassy? It's one thing to not hit the 1/25 for the nature I want, but do you really have to hit the 1/5 that actively hinders me? At least Sp Def is useful, could always be worse...
But oh well, can't complain too much, Latias has served me well, even with a supbar moveset, hindering nature and randomly spread EVs.
Taking them to the tower, I had to settle for Dragon's Claw and Dig on my Garchomp while I grinded for Outrage (there's no way I'm grinding for EQ so Dig will have to do). I grinded out the BP for Outrage and it's night and day.
Latias is running Charm, Recover, Trick and Surf. At first I was running Protect, as my plan was to swap that for Thunderwave after I got ebough BP, but I really didn't like running zero damaging moves. Could have went with Psychic for STAB... but it was quicker to boot up Surf in my back over flying to Blackthorn. Heh. Besides, Surf gives some nice coverage.
Garchomp really is strong. Swords Dance, Outrage. Boom, if they're not dead, they're about to be. He's so strong that.. it's kind of unfun really. But I'm not stranger to optimizing a bit of fun out of the game.
Gengar is the opposite. He's so fun to play with, mainly because of Destiny Bond.
Latias makes for some really funny and interesting rounds. From Trick Scarfing a dragon pokémon into sweeping my team with their dragon move, to funny interactions with the Taunt move, spamming Recover until they Struggle and more. Only downside is that Trick Scarfing is really strong but really makes some games take a looot longer...

I managed to go on a 46 win streak on my first serious attempt, after I ironed out some kinks. The second part of the tower, after Palmer 1, is way more fun than the first. The first one is just a mindless slog.
Obviously, I didn't manage to get to Palmer 2, I got demolished by a Bronzong a bit before that. So far it feels doable, as that was with a subpar Gengar and Latias that I can still improve slightly. But I know the tower gets even harder later on.
Oh, and as a last note, Sneasel absolutely demolishes my team. Ice annihilates Garchomp and Latias, dark annihilates Gengar. He outspeeds my whole team, Tricking him is a death sentence either way. If I have Latias first, she's toast. If I have Garchomp first, I can't even Swords Dance, I have to open with raw Outrage.
That thing is really scary.

Well, with that out of the way, this was the team

The Crew

Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry (if Gengar has Focus Sash)
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 6 HP /252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 12/29/24/15/26/28
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Dig
- Outrage

Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: ????
Sassy Nature
- Charm
- Trick
- Surf
- Recover

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash (if he goes first)
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: ????
Rash Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

I usually go with Garchomp first, then switch to Latias first after I beat first Palmer. Sometimes I take Gengar first but that's more 4fun than anything.

 

[straightouttatwinleaftown]

What's the best EV Spread for Trick Latias? Gengar I'm guessing is 6 HP 252 SpA 252 Spe

You usually want Latias to be at least faster than base 80s after Trick and then you invest the other EVs in HP and Defense. Yours will never be that fast, so you should probably find another speed landmark and make her as bulky as possible.
Also, I guess you really have no reason not to run 252 SpA/252 Spe on a Gengar, even if it's kind of subpar.

I had to settle for Relatively Superior Jolly Garchomp, but honestly the difference should be negligible, that was just me being whimsical.

You were not whimsical at all. Jolly Garchomp operates in a totally different speed tier compared to an Adamant one. Yours speed-ties with 252 EV +speed base 100s, which is at least better than being slower than them lol

Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry (if Gengar has Focus Sash)
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 6 HP /252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 12/29/24/15/26/28
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Dig
- Outrage

I know you didn't ask for advice about the sets, but I think I may be helpful.
Just a couple of things about Chomp. First: you can find the EQ TM via the Pickup ability if you can stand grinding. Second: in order to benefit as much as possible from Substitute, you should run 8 EV in HP (on this one).

Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: ????
Sassy Nature
- Charm
- Trick
- Surf
- Recover

Try to go for T. Wave instead of Surf and for Flash over Recover. Also, for this kind of strategy, a Choice Scarf is more optimal.

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash (if he goes first)
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: ????
Rash Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Really nothing wrong here. Just don't underestimate Energy Ball as an option.

 

[YHN_HGSS]

You were not whimsical at all.

The whim was on the IVs, not the Nature. I had my Relatively Superior Jolly Garchomp ready for a bit, but I also had an Outstanding one with Adamant Nature, so I attempted to breed an Outstanding Jolly Garchomp for a bit but I decided to just take the Relatively Superior because I had already spent way too much time breeding and it likely would not matter, as both Attack and Speed IVs were already good. The Adamant Garchomp had 29 in HP, if I could get 29/29/24/15/26/28, now THAT would be nice. But we take what we can get.

You usually want Latias to be at least faster than base 80s after Trick and then you invest the other EVs in HP and Defense. Yours will never be that fast, so you should probably find another speed landmark and make her as bulky as possible.

Guess I'll have to bruteforce some math to look for breakpoints. Or I could just put all in Speed then split the rest into HP/DEF.

First: you can find the EQ TM via the Pickup ability if you can stand grinding

Huh, that's neat to know. Depends on how much grinding we're talking here, but I'm not stranger to it so I'll look it up.

Try to go for T. Wave instead of Surf and for Flash over Recover. Also, for this kind of strategy, a Choice Scarf is more optimal.

As I mentioned, I really didn't enjoy running Latias with no damaging moves. But I'll figure it out as I progress through the Tower.
Why is Choice Scarf more optimal? My Latias is already rather slow, making the opponent even faster seems... counterproductive. Besides, Choice Specs puts my Latias' nasty SP Def to good use.

 

[straightouttatwinleaftown]

The whim was on the IVs, not the Nature.

Well, IVs are pretty important for a mon with such a peculiar speed stat as Garchomp.

Or I could just put all in Speed then split the rest into HP/DEF.

For sure. With 31 IV and a max speed investment you'd be faster than base 75s after Trick.

As I mentioned, I really didn't enjoy running Latias with no damaging moves. But I'll figure it out as I progress through the Tower.
Why is Choice Scarf more optimal? My Latias is already rather slow, making the opponent even faster seems... counterproductive. Besides, Choice Specs puts my Latias' nasty SP Def to good use.

By tricking a Choice Specs you'll basically make some opponents stronger, even if more predictable. On the other hand, if you trick a Scarf and then paralyze them, you'll just nerf them.
Btw I guess an attacking move like Surf may have a niche.

 

[Brucolac]

Well, IVs are pretty important for a mon with such a peculiar speed stat as Garchomp.

For sure. With 31 IV and a max speed investment you'd be faster than base 75s after Trick.

By tricking a Choice Specs you'll basically make some opponents stronger, even if more predictable. On the other hand, if you trick a Scarf and then paralyze them, you'll just nerf them.
Btw I guess an attacking move like Surf may have a niche.

Also some faster threats just may just outspeed and OHKO a specs Latias. With Scarf at least Latias gets a move off

 

[Cars234]

Hello Gen 4 gamers I am here to report my 2nd streak past 100 but my 1st one posted here and my 1st one with a team I technically made. I first reached 105 on my retail platinum file with the jumpman team (trick scarf Mesprit, acupressure drapion, Garchomp) and it was a tough but rewarding experience. Most recently however I decided to 100% my soul silver file and figured that it would be a fun challenge to reach a 100 win streak with a team consisting of only johto pokemon. Here is the ramshackle team that I came up with:

Girafarig @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Trick
- Flash
- Light Screen

Behold, dollar store Mesprit/Uxie. This slot took the most effort to find a johto equivalent, since many did not have every move I wanted or were lacking in other areas. Xatu baits electric moves which this team hates, Slowking is too slow to trick scarf effectively, Espeon lacks thunder wave. I was considering swapping this out for a fast Porygon2 but I tried breeding for one for a few areas and wasn’t having any luck so I stuck with this thing. What I can say is nice about girafarig is that it baits dark and bug moves pretty well, which could sometimes secure an easier setup for Scizor or a decent setup for Suicune. If for whatever reason you decide to use this team yourself, try and have your girafarig have a lower defense rather than special defense so things like download Porygon-Z give you less trouble, since that was a problem mon.

Scizor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Roost

This is much more standard compared to my last pick, mostly cause it’s just a good core with Suicune and priority bullet punch is nice. Could help drain the PP of strong dragon or bug moves in a pinch, get free setup if girafarig locks an enemy into a poison move, and it made the real early battles go by much faster. Superpower or Bug bite over something might be better for breaking though bulky waters, along with potentially some speed investment but I was doing this with just what I could get ingame relatively easily an didn’t have super optimized IVs.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Rest
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

This was the main cleaner of the team for pretty obvious reasons. Titanic bulk, pressure to force choice locked mons to struggle, as well as other dangerous moves, easily took away at least 10 hours of my time on this earth just using the dang thing but if it works, it works. Water Absorb and dry skin mons look like they would be problems and they definitely could be, but with pressure and stall tactics it wasn’t usually too hard to come out on top anyway, either forcing them to struggle or have nothing left to stop Scizor.

My biggest pain in this run was probably around like, battle 64 I think idr exactly, but I was trying to setup Suicune on one of the Lucario sets with aura sphere, but it ended up critting at enough terrible times to where Suicune died and it was all on Scizor. It wasn’t in range of two bullet punches but Scizor the goat dodged the aura sphere crit on the first round and got a bullet punch crit of its own to secure the dub and some precious hours. It probably took like less than 10 attempts to fully do this but I had a loss at 70 and 63 respectively which set me back a lot.

Biggest problem mons were lead strong fast fightings, other scarfers, and electrics, particularly Electivire and Magnezone. Tyranitar 4 was also a bit of an awkward lead to play against at times cause I’d have to dodge crunch defense drops with Scizor while setting up a few times.

All in all I can’t say this run was amazingly fun, PP stalling with Suicune 80% of the time is boring, especially when one wrong move can set me back a few hours. But it was pretty fun to plan a team with the limited options of Gen 2 pokemon and I’d be interested to see more generation themed runs from people. Shoutout to Magpielabs for his frontier content for teaching me everything I know about this stuff, and if nothing else I’m probably one of a handful of people to take Girafarig to 100 wins, so at least I have that going for me.

-Daniel Gaming 234 aka Cars234

 

[Led Zeppelin]

For Battle Factory, if going for a gold print, is it easier to try on open level or level 50? I am reading conflicting reports on the forums

 

[potatobagel]

Hello,

I've updated CastleAssistant again: https://echen52.github.io/battle-castle-assistant/

The key feature added was 'Reverse Trainer Search' for the IV=31 case. Previously, for IV=31, to scout all 3 Pokemon would require 'Summary' (2 CP x 3). However, it is known that many trainers (25 groups) only carry one instance. Refer to the attached trainer_instances.txt/csv for a list of groups that are one instance vs multi-instance. After searching for 2 Pokemon, one can narrow down what groups of trainers they belong to by inverting the Trainer->Pokemon search in FacilitiesAssistant.

For the one-instance case, you can get the exact instance match just by spending 1 CP for Search 3 by using 'Check' instead of 'Summary' after selecting the trainer group correctly (or even semi-correctly, so long as it's not selecting a multi-instance Trainer). Even in the multi-instance case, you can narrow down to around 4 sets with 'Check', and with an HP filter down to 2-3 in most cases. Averaged out, perfect scouting in the Castle for IV=31 should be around 5.5 CP per round instead of 6 as it was before, which is as optimized as it can get.

Please see the attached screenshots for examples of the new feature. If after doing 'Trainer Search', you feel uncomfortable with too many Trainer groups with multi-instance, you can still undo the feature and go back to traditional 'Summary' search.

Screenshots

More details are on the ReadMe. Thank you for reading!

 

[chris.txt]

For Battle Factory, if going for a gold print, is it easier to try on open level or level 50? I am reading conflicting reports on the forums

Lv.50 since it's easier to tell what sets you're facing against.

 

[straightouttatwinleaftown]

Hello,
submitting a streak of 455 in the Battle Tower (Doubles). On retail.

Team

I used Magpie's team, which is based on Jheisin's one. Namely: Bronzong, Smeargle, Slowbro, Machamp.

Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Heatproof
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 22 HP / 31 Atk / 25 Def / x SpA / 28 SpD / 7 Spe
- Explosion
- Iron Head
- Trick Room
- Earthquake

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 1
Impish Nature
IVs: Unkown. Def low enough to make the stat lower than SpD, despite the Impish nature (very important against P-2 and P-Z)
- Protect
- Endeavor
- Destiny Bond
- Fake Out

Slowbro @ Life Orb
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 20 HP / x Atk / 26 Def / 31 SpA / 25 SpD / 1 Spe
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower
- Trick Room

Machamp @ Iron Ball
Ability: No Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 22 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / x SpA / 28 SpD / 9 Spe
- Dynamic Punch
- Fling
- Stone Edge
- Protect

I won't say much about the team, since I didn't invent it and especially since TR setter + low level bait in the lead is a largely known archetype.
I'll just leave a few comments.
First of all, I deny what I said in the post about my older Doubles streaks. Heatproof is the better ability, period. Having an ability which is known by the AI when the battle starts, in this specific case, makes way easier to set up TR.
Also, I would say Smeargle is a better bait than Togetic/kiss. It doesn't grant Zong an almost complete EQ immunity, but Fake Out and Destiny Bond are so useful in so many scenarios. Though, it's more difficult to use it correctly.
This specific team is really broken and I'd say it can lead any goodish player to at least over 200 wins pretty easily.
My streak is actually average, but a better and more dedicated player would have really few problems to reach a better score, as Magpie already proved. It would be nice to try a new pb in the future, but all I can say rn is that I feel like I really couldn't stand another Doubles long run on hardware (lol). Also, I'm pretty satisfied with what I managed to reach.

Loss

Turn 1. Bronzong + Smeargle vs Gengar-2 + Raichu-2. TR + protect. Gengar SBall Bronzong (Hypnosis + DE have a strange AI).
Turn 2. Endeavor + Iron Head on Raichu, since a single IH wouldn't kill Gengar. Gengar SBall Zong. I trade Bronzong (against a Ghost type specialist) for Raichu, but I still have a full life Smeargle.
Turn 3. I switch in Machamp and the opponent switches in a not more specifically known Dusknoir. I kill Dusknoir with Fling but Gengar puts Machamp asleep.
Turn 4. The opponent switches in Mismagius-4. Here the safe play would be: switch Machamp out for Slowbro, so that Dream Eater fails, and click a first DB with Smeargle. Then T5 would be an easy double kill with Psychic on Gengar and another DB on Mismagius. But I instead leave Machamp on the field because I'm totally sure that DE will be always a OHKO and so Slowbro will still have a free switch in. What happens next? Machamp survives with a bunch of HP. And here's where I lose a match I was in full control of.
Turn 5. Machamp clearly doesn't wake up and gets killed by another DE, while Smeargle and Mismagius faint together because of DB.
Turn 6. TR fades away and my poor Slowbro gets a SBall in the face, while it says its final goodbye to the streak and maybe to the Tower Doubles in general.

Some videos

Some footage. Battle 301, battle 400 and battle 450.

And last but not least, I submit a streak of 59 in the Battle Tower (Multi - Human Partner).
Some months ago I mentioned in a post that I would try some Multi runs with a friend of mine. Sadly, the free time we can spend together is limited, but we still managed to get a fun Tower run. Now we'll probably try to work on a Multi Factory streak.

Team

My side:

Kingdra @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 HP / x Atk / 13 Def / 30 SpA / 12 SpD / 23 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Rain Dance

Azelf @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 7 HP / x Atk / 31 Def / 26 SpA / 10 SpD / 23 Spe
- Grass Knot
- Psychic
- Thunder
- Signal Beam

My friend's side:

Ludicolo @ Wide Lens
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: Unknown
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
- Fake Out

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: Unknown
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Waterfall
- Superpower

Long story short. We agreed we both wanted to play a rain team and we agreed that the best Gen 4 rain team is something like Kingdra, Ludicolo, Latios/Raikou, Scizor. So we agreed to build something more "exotic".
Though the lead is nothing new, we wanted some fun B-tier choices in the back, so we went for Azelf (which is basically a mini-Latios) and Kabutops (which is a faster but generally worse Scizor's substitute).
The plan is as simple as it looks. Turn 1: Fake Out + Rain Dance. And then you basically sweep everything.
We opted for a couple of inaccurate moves (my beloved "Missy Water" above all) just to see how things would go. You'll see in the next paragraph (lol).
Btw I seriously think Rain teams still have a lot to offer and are kind of underlooked. I won't say whoever builds the perfect Rain team will be the next WR holder, but he'll surely reach some great results.

Loss

I think the video speaks for itself. Even if you don't understand Italian, I'm sure you'll find it very funny.

 

[Wavy Seels]

For Battle Factory, if going for a gold print, is it easier to try on open level or level 50? I am reading conflicting reports on the forums

Probably comes down to personal preference, each format has easier and hard parts depending on the position of the streak. If you want an idea, here's a few bullet points:

Level 50 Pros:

• Easier/quicker Round 1
• More impactful elevations can help give you an edge in Battles 8 - 13, Battles 15 - 20, and Rounds 5 - 6
• Ability to identify which set every trainer uses up to Thorton 2 based on trainer tier
• Health bars drain faster (retail only, emulator can fast forward)
• Easier Thorton 2 on Platinum only

Open Level Pros:

• Easier Thorton 1 (HGSS uses Set 1 mons, but even in Platinum, Group 2 mons in level 100 can hang with Thorton a lot easier than Group 1 mons in Level 50, especially if you have to pull from Set 1 Group 1 mons)
• Don't have to play around elevations so you don't have to swap constantly early on
• First 4 sets don't have smart AI (a lot of Set 2 - 4 mons become more manageable when they click random moves)
• Even though you can pull meme sets in your drafts past round 5, the opponent can also draft meme sets as well
• Could help give you more familiarity with Group 2 mons, which can help some decision making in Level 50

In general I think it boils down to how much you want to learn Factory. Level 100 can clear Thorton 1 a lot more reliably IMO, while having a more luck dependent gold print (especially if you don't keep track of items and scout sets), while Level 50 has more of a clear progression towards Gold print. Level 50 can be consistently difficult, but as you learn it, it does become more consistent.

 

[Led Zeppelin]

Thanks all. I've been going for level 50. Mostly because it feels like there's more guides out there, and I can pretty easily breeze through the first 2 rounds at this point.

I find it the most frustrating challenge so far in a pokemon game! I got all gold prints in Emerald, and while that was a hard challenge, I felt like there were enough tools and guides online where I could figure it all out eventually.

In Platinum, I have all the gold prints except the battle factory. Highest I've gotten is a streak of 42. I did not find the other facilities all too difficult once I got the team building right. The battle factory is just so unforgiving and requires so much knowledge and luck! It's overwhelming.

 

[RoadRunnaRico]

Thanks all. I've been going for level 50. Mostly because it feels like there's more guides out there, and I can pretty easily breeze through the first 2 rounds at this point.

I find it the most frustrating challenge so far in a pokemon game! I got all gold prints in Emerald, and while that was a hard challenge, I felt like there were enough tools and guides online where I could figure it all out eventually.

In Platinum, I have all the gold prints except the battle factory. Highest I've gotten is a streak of 42. I did not find the other facilities all too difficult once I got the team building right. The battle factory is just so unforgiving and requires so much knowledge and luck! It's overwhelming.

From what I learned from trial and error and also beating it is that you always wanna switch out of Pokémon so in the later round to get better ones and then after you beat the silver print that’s when you start playing defense over offense. Example always having immunities or resistances for the Pokémon that you pick. Couple tips I can give you is if you’re doing level 50 Smart AI kicks in around the 22nd or 23rd. If you are doing open level Smart AI kicks in around 29 or 30. So basically all the way until you reach those rounds play speed and offense, then you play strategy and defense when smart AI kicks! Open Lv is easier imo because of equal footing, Lv 50 Thorton 1 is too hard especial using group 3 mons vs group 4 mons. Here’s my run showcasing everything I said

. I also disagree with the battle factory being unforgiving because BW Super Multi is 10x worse than the battle factory.