Singles 3v3 General Discussion

chemcoop

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Thanks. What are the situations where you would use another mega like salamence in a rain team?
Most rain teams pack a secondary mega like Mence or Scizor for the matchups in which rain is not going to be a viable pick. For example, if your opponent is running something like Ferro + Zap that Swampert is going to struggle to break, you may wish to bring a second mega + 2 other team members that can beat cores that give rain trouble.
 
I've seen a few people ask about specific spreads or sets for pokemon in various chatrooms. If you don't want to directly go through blogs to find spreads and explanations for them, you can go to yakkun:

https://yakkun.com/sm/theory/

Just search the top box with whatever pokemon you are looking for (in Japanese). Also to note is if you are ever making a GBU team and looking for spreads, this is probably one of the best places to go:

https://yakkun.com/bw/theory/
 
Question:

I am trying ou this rain team

Link: http://sskaa14.hatenablog.jp/entry/2019/01/08/054702
Placing: 9th
Archetype: Rain Hyper Offence
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/ac77bca61e107c89

But for the salamence he suggests running 92 speed, from the translation this is to outspeed mimikyu? Is this true?

I am trying EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 124 Def / 92 Spe instead of his EV which runs more defense though.
He just wants to use it as a physical tank, I guess vs. mimikyu adamant Play Rough only has one roll which it 2hkos so it can kinda be used. Im not sure about the speed evs, if it was me, Id run 100 or just go lower to 68 which would outspeed adamant mimikyu anyways. Currently it speed ties base 100s neutral nature which isn't ideal.
 
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cant say

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So I've been checking the usage and it doesn't seem to have gone up, but every Mimikyu I've run into in the last 3-4 weeks has been this:

Mimikyu @ 50% berry / Mimikium Z / Ghostium Z / Mental Herb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: ??? (4 HP / [ 252 Def OR 252 Atk ] / 252 Spe)
Timid Nature (or Jolly if running an attack)
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute
- Curse / Play Rough / Shadow Claw
- Pain Split / Play Rough / Shadow Claw
Basically these things lead and just T wave as the disguise gets broken, then spam Sub until they get a free turn, then either Pain Split or Curse depending on how much health they're at (or which one of the two they're running in favour of Play Rough), and repeat this action until the other team is so weak that something like Hex Gengar sweeps or Sub Mence sets up for free.

I've only run into attackless sets so far which are just Taunt bait, but are definitely the most annoying to face. However on discord we've been talking about how the non-Curse, Mimikium Z set seems the best since it can just SubSplit stuff until a full para happens and then kill with (Z) Play Rough, then do the same thing to the next mon. However things like Sub Gengar / Sub Mence / Sub Steela really like Curse support...

Have many other people run into this? Thunder Wave usage has been steady at 6-7% for a while now, but like I said this seems to be the only set I run into these days. Maybe it's a mid-ladder thing and I'm not often sitting there to experience it lol.
 
So I've been checking the usage and it doesn't seem to have gone up, but every Mimikyu I've run into in the last 3-4 weeks has been this:



Basically these things lead and just T wave as the disguise gets broken, then spam Sub until they get a free turn, then either Pain Split or Curse depending on how much health they're at (or which one of the two they're running in favour of Play Rough), and repeat this action until the other team is so weak that something like Hex Gengar sweeps or Sub Mence sets up for free.

I've only run into attackless sets so far which are just Taunt bait, but are definitely the most annoying to face. However on discord we've been talking about how the non-Curse, Mimikium Z set seems the best since it can just SubSplit stuff until a full para happens and then kill with (Z) Play Rough, then do the same thing to the next mon. However things like Sub Gengar / Sub Mence / Sub Steela really like Curse support...

Have many other people run into this? Thunder Wave usage has been steady at 6-7% for a while now, but like I said this seems to be the only set I run into these days. Maybe it's a mid-ladder thing and I'm not often sitting there to experience it lol.
One thing I find helpful to look at more recent trends in the top level is look what people are running on the showdown ladder rather than the cartridge ladder which contains a lot of players at a wide variety of skill levels. The lead mimikyu set with twave is about twice as common on high showdown as it is on Cart ladder. Some of the stuff you see in Nouthuca teams isn't immediately seen in the overall statistics either as it takes a bit of time to trickle down. You could see that with the rise of Snorlax and Torrent Greninja, where high showdown picks up on these trends quite a bit quicker due to it being somewhat of a training ground for some Japanese players before they go on Cart.

In terms of Mimikyu, I've felt that there has been quite a rise in focus sash mimikyu over the last month or two. I have seen dedicated lead mimikyus though for sure popping up, though it does have its share of weaknesses in the lead slot where there are certain pokemon it cannot really get its job done against.
 

Theorymon

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Yo not gonna make a big post atm, but I just want to say: Mega Lopunny is better than its ever been imo. Fake Out chipping Mimikyu has been extremely useful for me, and by god I love it when I see Mega Kangaskhan now! I've been using it on a team with Choice Scarf Tapu Fini as well, who has been quite a dark horse for me. Picking off weakened Tapu Koko and pals has been an awesome surprise factor, and Trick has made it actually not useless vs stall teams too!
 
I’ve asked in VGC but would also like to use in singles
Does anyone have a viable/competitive team comp that includes shedinja?
Thinking of the qualities that Shedinja provides, I can't see it being too viable/competitive outside of very particular tournament usage where you have clearly scouted your opponents and are using it to counter team specific things, inside of a stall build. Right now, sand, status, rocks, and coverage are just too common in BSS to have shedinja be viable. Even if you do get a situation where you have immunity against most of your opponents 3 they choose, shedinja provides so little threat that the 1 mon with a super effective move/status/sand will straight up beat the unmon.
 

cant say

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I’ve asked in VGC but would also like to use in singles
Does anyone have a viable/competitive team comp that includes shedinja?
Shedinja's niche is on stall teams since it's able to switch infinitely if you are able to abuse your opponent's coverage options, while the other team is slowly whittled down. Offensive Shedinja does not exist since it loses to nearly all the best BSS Pokemon. Also, it can't be brought without Mega Sableye since entry hazards need to be kept away and Defog is not viable.

If you click this you'll see team compositions for successful Shedinja teams recently.
 
Thanks guys for the info. I hadn’t considered the prevalence of sand in BSS as I hadn’t faced it much. Is this cos I’m low on the ladder do you think?
 
Ika, could you comment on the increasing trend of Char-X fini steel mon cores? What is particularly curious to me is that these Zards are running wisp, which is an inherent non-bo with its common partner, fini. What is the strategy behind it?

Regardless, thanks for the team dump, definitely a ton of gems here! Ika our lord and savior of BSS!
 
Ika, could you comment on the increasing trend of Char-X fini steel mon cores? What is particularly curious to me is that these Zards are running wisp, which is an inherent non-bo with its common partner, fini. What is the strategy behind it?

Regardless, thanks for the team dump, definitely a ton of gems here! Ika our lord and savior of BSS!
Rather than me explaining my personal opinion solely although it is pretty similar to what I will write below, I'll try my best to reiterate what is written in blogs about specifically Charizard X + Tapu Fini as a general pairing duo. It should be noted that there is generally a steel type in every top team due to the defensive utility of steels as Tapu Lele, Mimikyu and to a lesser extent Naganadel and Mega Salamence checks so I'll try my best to explain that later.

Whilst it is true that the abilities of Tapu Fini and Charizard X do not really mix very well, the typings themselves are very synergistic and both pokemon are naturally, especially with the bulkier EV spreads very fat and therefore able to cover each others weaknesses. Charizard X smacks grass/electric types that typically give Fini trouble (like Tapu Koko, Ferrothorn, Breloom and to a lesser extent Thundurus-T) whilst Fini deals with the Ground, rock and dragon type attacks that give Charizard trouble due to its natural bulk such as Hippowdon, Garchomp and Landorus-T. One thing in particular important in the Charizard matchup is getting rocks up, however most of the major setters (Lando, Hippo, Garchomp and Heatran) struggle heavily vs. Fini whilst Ferrothorn can be switched into and taken advantage of for free by Charizard X. In this way, setting up SR can be difficult before Zard X is already megaed, at which point SR is not as important.

Will-o-Wisp on Charizard X obviously is blocked by the Misty Terrain, but this does not occur in all cases, for example switching in Landorus-T into Zard X to apply intimidate or to threaten out with EQ, which can still be wisped. The other major case is Mega Gyarados, which prefers not to mega due to Tapu Fini existing. The second thing is, that in these sorts of compositions, it can be common to lead Zard in certain matchups and get off early wisps, for example if the opponent wants to lead Mimikyu. Bulky Zard spreads can surprisingly handle, given the right EV spreads, a lot of the typical non-ground leads such as Tapu Koko and Sash Greninja. Will-o-wisp is also very free vs. Hippowdon compositions since they have no switchin to Zard Y (if they get the mindgame wrong) other than typically Mega Salamence which hates Wisp and Zard X can roost stall Hippo EQs after a wisp relatively easily whilst Misty terrain blocks yawn.

To put it a different way, rather than using Zard X's natural strength with tough claws (though bulkier spreads use this anyways), the composition uses Zard-X's bulk and defensive typing to chip down opponents in what would probably tend towards balance rather than offence. This sort of composition also benefits off multiple mindgames, is it Zard X or Zard Y and then when you have found that out, is it SD Zard X or a bulkier variant which can make it difficult for opponents to form cohesive gameplans.

A steel type just completes the Fairy Dragon Steel core. Celesteela is generally preferred due to its ability to leech seed, punishing switches as well as its ground immunity which further neuters the likes of Scarf Landorus-T which could otherwise wreck havoc on the core.
 
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I wanted to quickly discuss a couple of lesser known EV benchmark used by top Japanese players that may come in handy when either EVing your own pokemon for cartridge ladder or understanding why others EV their pokemon the way they do. If you have translated enough Japanese teams, you have probably seen the words "16n+1" or "11n" beside certain EVs.

"16n + 1" or "8n + 1" for gliscor essentially means that the HP EVs are a multiple of 8 or 16 + 1 more hp. The reason for this is to get as much HP as possible. At 160 hp for example, you recover 10 hp back with leftovers or 20 hp with a toxic orb whereas you would recover 9hp/19hp if you were 159 hp. The extra one hp gives you an odd number which allows you to create more than substitutes since the HP for subs rounds down. This is not always the most important factor for HP evs, but it is one to consider in building when using a mon that utilises leftovers, black sludge or has poison heal.

"11n" comes into play for every stat other than HP. Every time you increase your number of EVs by 8 (at level 50), you gain an extra point towards whatever stat you put into. This is true for most stats, however if you have a positive nature towards a particular stat, then that stat actually gains 1.1 points towards it per EV. This is usually rounded down, however every multiple of 11, you will have gained an extra point in the relevant stat. This is why the attack benchmark for standard bulky mimikyu is 156 attack adamant for example. At 148 attack adamant Mimikyu has 141 attack and at 156 attack adamant Mimikyu has 143 attack. This 143 total attack is a multiple of 11. This is why benchmarks for positive natures are often done in multiples of 11.

Anyways, just a random titbit that people might find interesting.
 
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Oh yes I was wondering about excadrill. I'm planning on trying excadrill while leading with a tyranitar with a sneaky SpA trained Ice Beam to counter landorus/salamence. What would be some other good teammates? I was looking at megamanetric for the volt-switch, maybe tapu bulu for countering water.
 
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cant say

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Oh yes I was wondering about excadrill. I'm planning on trying excadrill while leading with a tyranitar with a sneak SpA trained Ice Beam to counter landorus/salamence. What would be some other good teammates? I was looking at megamanetric for the volt-switch, maybe tapu bulu for countering water.
I’ve been using Ice Beam Ttar + sand Excadrill a lot. The usual Mega for those teams is Salamence, mostly as a special attacker but mixed or even DD is good. I also really like Mega Venusaur on these teams as the bulky water check. My favourite sand team is Ttar, Exca, Venu, Mence, Fini, Steela.
 
I’ve been using Ice Beam Ttar + sand Excadrill a lot. The usual Mega for those teams is Salamence, mostly as a special attacker but mixed or even DD is good. I also really like Mega Venusaur on these teams as the bulky water check. My favourite sand team is Ttar, Exca, Venu, Mence, Fini, Steela.
After doing some testing on showdown before I attempt to assemble this team on DS, I actually think my venasaur core is stronger than excadrill for 2 reasons -> 1: it's so unexpected. Literally I've had people try to stay in on my venasaur when they get outsped. 2: I believe the best teammate for excadrill is actually hippowdown because yawn is too invaluable, excadrill is too damn squishy and very hard to get a swords dance in. However with the presence of so many mence/landorus you want that ice beam. Venasaur is usually tanky enough to take 1 hit for Growth before he starts going to town, excadrill always gets one shot. I insta kill landorus with boosted solar beam, mence with poison Z move, and can take alot of threats down with hidden power fire (which is also boosted by the sun lol). It's as anti-meta as you can get xD
 
I’ve been using Ice Beam Ttar + sand Excadrill a lot. The usual Mega for those teams is Salamence, mostly as a special attacker but mixed or even DD is good. I also really like Mega Venusaur on these teams as the bulky water check. My favourite sand team is Ttar, Exca, Venu, Mence, Fini, Steela.
Would you mind sharing a Pokepaste of your Sand team? I really enjoyed using Sand in the days of PBR but have struggled to build a decent team around it since.
 

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