3v3 Hazard Discussion

[flarz]

We have all expiremented with hazards before, don't lie. While not as good as they are in the 6v6 meta, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web can have their niche. This thread is basically to discuss what those niches maybe and how we can use these moves to our advantage! Be sure to check out the poll while you're at it!

Rules:
#1: Absolutely no criticizing strategies!!!! Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't good.

#2: Know what you're saying. Don't post without thinking it through.

#3: Look to learn something! Be open to all suggestions, and just have fun with it!

 

[cant say]

Stealth rock is bar far the best imo. Focus sashes are everywhere and the ability to neuter Talonflame and Charizard, as well as taking away Dragonite's multiscale is crazy good. A lot of the popular 'mons atm are flying/levitating so they avoid all the other hazards. Even though rapid spin / defog is pretty much non-existant, it's nearly impossible to keep toxic spikes up with the abundance of Venusaur, Mega-Gengar and the occasional Scolipede. I haven't tried it yet but it's actually what I want to build a team around; Sticky Web could prove interesting, being able to drop most things down a few speed tiers could make a few more thing more viable. Of course all the non-grounded 'mons still outspeed you but it's not like outspeeding is going to help against Talonflame anyway smh...

 

[Hulavuta]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with cant say on this one. Although I'd say the significance of Stealth Rock in 3v3 drops from something you should have to just something useful. You don't really need to have a Stealth Rock user like in 6v6, but it does help a ton when you're up against stuff like Talonflame, Dragonite, Charizard, etc. It also breaks Focus Sashes and nobody really uses Rapid Spin or Defog.

I personally have not used Sticky Web, but I can see it being useful. However, I'm struggling to think of what it hurts in particular...just looking at the top 12, I don't think many of these Pokemon except for Garchomp really care that much about being slowed down. Greninja's not in the top 12 anymore but it would be seriously hurt by this, as well as Infernape which is a bit less common. I think it's useful to just guarantee to outspeed most grounded Pokemon.

Toxic Spikes I think can be useful if you're up against something like Porygon2 that is extremely hard to kill. Since it's 3v3 with team preview, you can just leave the Toxic Spiker behind if they have Venusaur or Gengar, or if they don't really have any extremely bulky Pokemon. I think it's very niche but could come in handy.

I want to say that Spikes are not worth using, but I've faced a few teams that used Spikes pretty well. It's extremely reliant on team matchup, but when you get Skarmory or Klefki in on something that can't really hurt it, you can set up some Spikes. If you get a really good team matchup you can just force your opponent to switch over and over to take Spikes damage. It's not really useful most of the time, but it can work. At least it's less stupid than using Skillkeys =_=

 

[Ares]

So far in my experience in battle spot hazards have been non existent. The few times I have seen them it has been stealth rocks. I voted for stealth rocks which I think is by far the best hazard across the board whether in battlespot or 6v6. I also agree with the points stated above so won't repost my same exact thoughts.

However the one thing that wasn't mentioned was the fact that in such a short battle setting up hazards can be a wasted move. Unless you lay rocks on the field specifically for talonflame or charizard I find that my opponent usually ends up wasting a turn that either lets me kill off the rock setter or power up punch on it and then kill next turn leaving me with a +2 Kahn ready to sweep their team. So my thoughts are that unless you have a specific mon in mind while laying the hazards down it isn't worth it because the switching is usually at a minimum.

 

[Deleted User 220884]

You're actually wasting a turn when setting up SR, in BS. Legit, even I had a TF and Zard Y on my team and this guy still went for SR. Thinking I brought both. I only bring T-flame due to raw power of revenge killing. I still won the battle with my Talonflame after taking 2 of his pokemon out. Surviving with 8 HP.

SR, is the best since it hinders pokemon and breaks sturdy/sashs, but I'd tell you it's better to fight and attack, then setting up entry hazards.

 

[Deleted User 220884]

Finally got my 3DS, back. For some reason i still have my battle touch, and heres an interesting battle on why not to set up hazards on 3v3:
KLNG-WWWW-WWW9-68P9

this guy totally got wrecked. Setting up stealth rocks is a waste a time for the most of time as I said before. I had a team consisting of: Dragonite, Talonflame, Zapdos, Bisharp, Gengar(M), and mamoswine. It seems SR would be smart to set up, but it ended for a loss for him.

 

[Tunaface]

Of all the hazards evident in nowadays game play, Spikes is considered by many (myself included) to be the worst. This is due to the fact that it only does 25% of the opponents HP at MAX. Some people may think that this is good damage, but the fact that this takes 3 turns to set up could easily result in the fact that you would lose. The fact that this is battle spot makes this point even stronger. Assuming that 1 first Pokemon stays in, there are only 2 Pokemon this can affect, and it is likely one of them will be immune.

Another main factor that limits their usefulness is the fact that Spinners like Blastoise and Excadrill, and Defoggers like Lati@s and Zapdos are all to common, and can literally blow away your attempt to lower HP. Although Spinblockers can be used to stop the first 2, Defog is near unstoppable outside of Taunt, so you might as well have just skipped 3 turns.

This leads me to my last point on Spikes. So many Pokemon can avoid Spikes. In the team showed in the above post there are 4 Pokemon who would avoid Spikes. These 3 turns can be completely useless if it turns out your opponent isn't effected by them.

Now I'm not saying that they are completely terrible (although they are close enough) teams focused on Stall Phazing can see these Spikes as a blessing. Combinations of Hippowdon and Skarmory are great examples of this. Hippo sets up Rocks, Skar sets up Spikes, and between them they continuously Whirlwind the opponents, allowing for the gradual damage (including Sandstorm) to weather the opponents down.

 

[NOVED]

Personally, I don't think Battle Spot games last enough turns normally to warrant the use of hazards. They're not always completely useless but you're better off without them most games. I could see sticky web being useful but there's a huge lack of viable sticky web users that would have a viable role besides a suicide lead. And since you have a small amount of mons to bring each game in singles/doubles/rotations, having one mon as a dedicated suicide lead isn't really wise.

 

[Tunaface]

Like all the others have said, I personally think that Stealth Rock is the only useful one (at best) as it is one turn, and can be used to vastly damage Talonflame and Charizard. The only good Sticky Webber is Galvantula, but even that is mediocre at best, its defenses falling to Pokemon like Garchomp and Mega Kangaskan. Rotom-Heat renders it almost useless.

 

[a0161613]

My point has already been mentioned, surely hazards benefit from a phasing strategy. This could also be helpful in a meta containing a number of set up sweepers.

Also, while it may not be so viable in 3v3, could it be more worthwhile in Triples?

 

[NOVED]

Also, while it may not be so viable in 3v3, could it be more worthwhile in Triples?

It's even less viable in triples imo. There's not enough switching in triples to warrant rocks or spikes. The only hazards that might be decent at best in triples are toxic spikes and sticky web. That's only because those have a longer lasting effect on the battle and even then it won't affect a whole half or 2/6 of the team potentially. It would also have to be set up first turn to really have a good impact in the match. And like I've said before I don't think using a mon as a dedicated hazard lead is a good idea, especially in triples where you'd want to switch up your leads a lot depending on the team matchup, and that hazard lead may not be the best option first turn if you're facing a team with some good fake out support which is extremely common in triples.

 

[Shyfire]

ummm hazzards i think are kinda of a waste in battle spot. Matches don't last that long (20 turn at the very most) but if i had to say SRs. Stealth Rock helps break focus sashes (witch suprising because hazzards are rare as crap). And take away 50 percent of the health From the likes of talonflame, Mega zards x and y, and give some chip damage. takes away Dragonite's multiscale and more. Next i would say Sticky web could be used to some extent. It slows down incomming mons and netrulize choice scarfs. However there are a lot of viable mons immune to sticky webs. On top of that there aren't any viable mons who can learn sticky webs. Overall i don't think hazzards should be used in 3v3 but they have niches and moments.

 

[HydreigonIsOP]

Definatly Sticky Web. Being able to outspeed pokemon is a huge deal, and it takes away a lot of the strength of fast, glass-canon pokemon. SR are nice 2, but SW is my favourite.

 

[EnGarde]

Sticky web not only costs a moveslot, but a whole teamslot: none of the pokemon that get sticky web are particularly suited for battle spot. I'd prefer rock tomb over sticky web, personally.

 

[Age of Kings]

Better alternatives to Sticky Web (and also more reasons not to run it):

1. Thunder Wave - Better distribution and better effect, one turn of being fully paralyzed often decides games. Sticky Web is better against Manectric and Garchomp but the Sticky Web mons don't do well against them; Flying types and Levitators are everywhere and far outweighs that small niche situation.

2. Tailwind - a more aggressive move because you're not twiddling your thumbs hoping your opponent will switch and benefits all of your Pokemon. Not as great in singles as it is in Doubles/Triples, but it's just infinitely better than Sticky Web because of the immediate threat it poses to your opponent and being good for almost everything sans TR/Ferrothorn

3. Rock Tomb / Icy Wind: Rock Tomb is mainly singles Garchomp filler but is one of the factors that make it difficult to switch into. I've become particularly fond of Icy Wind for speed control, but these are good offensive options for speed control that may also serve a secondary purpose for coverage

All of the above have good distributions amongst meta Pokemon, unlike Sticky Web that forces you to sacrifice a teamslot just for its sparse distribution that isn't worth it imo.