3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread [The Pentagon is back!!]

One thing I wanna talk about is Piloswine, it's a really interesting Pokemon that can be pretty good. I got wrecked by it on the ladder some time ago just because I had no idea what it did lol.

It is insanely bulky with Eviolite which makes it a more defensive Pokemon, setting it apart from Mamoswine. It's got all the tricks with Stealth Rock and Endeavor (and it doesn't need a Sash to survive because it's just that bulky lmao).

Most of its effectiveness comes from unfamiliarity but I'd dare to say it's decent enough to be a viable mainstream mon.

Example of how bulky it is:

Theorymon said:
I looked up its stats, noticed Impish was on top... and that Mega Lucario was in its TOP 6 VICTIMS LIST o_O

I did a calc and...

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Piloswine: 164-196 (79.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Click to expand...
 
Hulavuta said:
One thing I wanna talk about is Piloswine, it's a really interesting Pokemon that can be pretty good. I got wrecked by it on the ladder some time ago just because I had no idea what it did lol.

It is insanely bulky with Eviolite which makes it a more defensive Pokemon, setting it apart from Mamoswine. It's got all the tricks with Stealth Rock and Endeavor (and it doesn't need a Sash to survive because it's just that bulky lmao).

Most of its effectiveness comes from unfamiliarity but I'd dare to say it's decent enough to be a viable mainstream mon.

Example of how bulky it is:
Click to expand...

Omg, that's amazing. I definitely think Eviolite Pilo is super viable. Unlike some pre Evos that have way worse stats than their evolutions, so that they're not really bulkier than them with the Eviolite and weaker and slower with no item, Piloswine has stats that are almost as good as Mamo's, especially for bulk.

It's base Def and SpD are the same as Mamo(80/60), and it's base 100 HP is only 10 base stat points lower-not very much at all. SpA doesn't matter, and even tho base 50 Spe is slow, even Mamo's base 80 isn't all that fast unless you're Scarf(and obviously Pilo needs Eviolite.)

That leaves attacks, so it's important to see what Pilo misses out on that Mamo gets.
20+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 164 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 240-288 (128.3 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I like this spread. 236 HP/ 252 Def is the least investmnet for Lucario's CC to have only 25% to OHKO-252/244 even makes it a 37.5% chance, I guess cuz Pilo has more HP than Def. there's prolly a better spread, but I'm busy with Regice for my niche rxxpirement, and this is your brain child Hula.

Anyways, 164/4/4 is the most bulk if ever expect Heatran to run(max SpA and 84 Spe for uninvested Rotoms and stuff,) and it's clear by how much this does Tran can run way more bulk before it's really safe. Pilo also gets past Gliscor about as well as Mamo-6.3% chance to OHKO, but Ice Shard seals the deal.

+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 236 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 192-226 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Not a great chance at +2, but clearly living a hit from +1. Icicle Spear has a 75% chance to OHKO, and Ofc Ice Shard will finish it if you have both. If you just have Shard there's a 93.8% chance to 2HKO, so that's ok too.

20+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 192-252 (104.3 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

All you really need. And Ice Shard 2HKOs with room to spare, so don't fret if you lack Spear. And Pilo lives whatever from Garchomp unless it's at +4 Atk or higher-not likely at all.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 174-205 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Same chance for Spear to OHKO this Thund, except Pilo can potentially finish with Shard rather than take the 2hko if the first FB doesn't do it, which it prolly won't. Many Thund don't have FB tho, and standard electric STAB and HP Ice are Ofc useless.

I think that's enough for now. Pilo seems really cool, and still packs a punch. There are a few problems with it tho, like I don't think purely offensive Pilo makes that much sense so it needs Tixic or whatever, so no Rock Slide. But it can prolly Toxic Talon and other rock weak stuff so that's mayb not too bad. Cress seems like a really bad nice teammate, mainly for Lunar Dance and a fighting resist. Para support is really nice too cuz Pilo is slow. Thund synergizes very well, as with Mamo, and does para support and is just good in general.[/Hide]
 
I don't post here much, but I'm rated #8 for the United States in singles battle spot, rated #3 overall for all types in the United States (I am Damfee on the Global Link).

To me, singles battle spot is the most competitive and intense format there is for pokemon battling. A lot, lot of skill is needed to succeed in that format.
 
elnimio said:
I don't post here much, but I'm rated #8 for the United States in singles battle spot, rated #3 overall for all types in the United States (I am Damfee on the Global Link).

To me, singles battle spot is the most competitive and intense format there is for pokemon battling. A lot, lot of skill is needed to succeed in that format.
Click to expand...

Wow, those rankings are pretty impressive my dude. Care to share some of your teams that you use? It's always fun to analyze teams and see why they work.

It's undeniably super intense, but I've never really thought of 3v3 being the most competitive format, care you elaborate why you think that? Personally, I am very impressed with how well balanced it is.
 
Hulavuta said:
Wow, those rankings are pretty impressive my dude. Care to share some of your teams that you use? It's always fun to analyze teams and see why they work.

It's undeniably super intense, but I've never really thought of 3v3 being the most competitive format, care you elaborate why you think that? Personally, I am very impressed with how well balanced it is.
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Sorry for the delayed reply. I use a core of two Megas, Mega Venusaur and Mega Blaziken. Then I use a couple of Pokemon that create great synergy with both, Heatran and Hydreigon. I also use a Cresselia, for when I see too many hard-hitting pokemon on one team, and not necessarily stall. Then I have a Garchomp, mostly to have teams prepare for it, I almost never use it.

I would say an important distinction about my Mega Blaziken is that instead of a third attacking move, it knows Baton Pass. For example, let's say I'm facing a Suicune. Obviously, Blaziken can't do much against it, so I protect, use Baton Pass on the predicted Scald, and now have a Choice Specs Hydreigon with the equivalent of a Choice Scarf boost. Pretty hard to stop at that point.


Also, my ranking is now 1767 on singles. I'd never been past 1750 before!
 
elnimio said:
I don't post here much, but I'm rated #8 for the United States in singles battle spot, rated #3 overall for all types in the United States (I am Damfee on the Global Link).

To me, singles battle spot is the most competitive and intense format there is for pokemon battling. A lot, lot of skill is needed to succeed in that format.
Click to expand...
Yes! Finally someone that agrees too! I peaked with 1816 and i say skill is MUCH more important than the pokemon or even sets than you are using. Knowledge of pokemon types, stats, sets and abilities and knowing to read your opponent, calculating which moves give you the most chance of winning, bluffing etc. are all things people can learn and are so important in winning.
 
elnimio said:
Sorry for the delayed reply. I use a core of two Megas, Mega Venusaur and Mega Blaziken. Then I use a couple of Pokemon that create great synergy with both, Heatran and Hydreigon. I also use a Cresselia, for when I see too many hard-hitting pokemon on one team, and not necessarily stall. Then I have a Garchomp, mostly to have teams prepare for it, I almost never use it.

I would say an important distinction about my Mega Blaziken is that instead of a third attacking move, it knows Baton Pass. For example, let's say I'm facing a Suicune. Obviously, Blaziken can't do much against it, so I protect, use Baton Pass on the predicted Scald, and now have a Choice Specs Hydreigon with the equivalent of a Choice Scarf boost. Pretty hard to stop at that point.


Also, my ranking is now 1767 on singles. I'd never been past 1750 before!
Click to expand...

Considering how high you're ranked I wouldn't expect you to use two Megas ruined by the very common Talon and Megamence. Like I've used Venu and Mega Lopunny before, and that did pretty good, but that was PS.

Heatran is a good teammate for Venu...tho you compound a lot of water and ground with Blazi. Hydra takes both of those, but it's hardly a tank the way it's usually run, and it compounds a fighting weakness with Tran. What else do you use that makes you do so good?

I agree with freekhorn skill is super important, about as much as the mons used. An example is something with t-wave and Swagger against a special attacker. Assuming you outspeed, you wanna Swagger instead of t-wave to decrease the chance the for gets to hit you as much as possible.

Your Blazi is another good example of that. BP is great even without a boosting move thanks to its neat ability, and using stuff like Hydra that can make great use of the Spe boosts while also often switching in for free-ish is a great idea. Obviously your team is quite fast, even tho Venu and Tran aren't terribly fast. So I doubt you're using any t-wave mons. Do you have any status on your team, maybe a Sub, Toxic, STAB, and Protect Lefties Tran? If you don't have any reliable status spreaders(I.e. Toxic, T-Wave, Spore, and WoW. Not Scald or w/e with a chance,) do you think that's a good idea? Do the best teams tend to have little or no status? I always base my teams around status, maybe that's a bad idea.
 
Omastar68 said:
Considering how high you're ranked I wouldn't expect you to use two Megas ruined by the very common Talon and Megamence. Like I've used Venu and Mega Lopunny before, and that did pretty good, but that was PS.

Heatran is a good teammate for Venu...tho you compound a lot of water and ground with Blazi. Hydra takes both of those, but it's hardly a tank the way it's usually run, and it compounds a fighting weakness with Tran. What else do you use that makes you do so good?

I agree with freekhorn skill is super important, about as much as the mons used. An example is something with t-wave and Swagger against a special attacker. Assuming you outspeed, you wanna Swagger instead of t-wave to decrease the chance the for gets to hit you as much as possible.

Your Blazi is another good example of that. BP is great even without a boosting move thanks to its neat ability, and using stuff like Hydra that can make great use of the Spe boosts while also often switching in for free-ish is a great idea. Obviously your team is quite fast, even tho Venu and Tran aren't terribly fast. So I doubt you're using any t-wave mons. Do you have any status on your team, maybe a Sub, Toxic, STAB, and Protect Lefties Tran? If you don't have any reliable status spreaders(I.e. Toxic, T-Wave, Spore, and WoW. Not Scald or w/e with a chance,) do you think that's a good idea? Do the best teams tend to have little or no status? I always base my teams around status, maybe that's a bad idea.
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I'd assume he's pairing Blaziken + Hydreigon, or Venusaur + Heatran. He's only bringing 3 mons at a time, so if two of them don't synergize particularly well it's no problem most of the time. Hydreigon pairs with both Megas, and Cress would likely be his answer to Mence. Talonflame does literally nothing to Heatran, and Specs Hydra also blows its balls off. ParaFusion is great, I agree, but it doesn't have to be on every team. My most successful team ever peaked right after I removed my SwagPlay Klefki, lol.

Skill and prediction is important in all metas: I could go on a 3 paragraph rant for Doubles, but there isn't much reason to do so and is off topic here :P
Incorporating status into a team (ie Thundy for T-Wave) is usually a good idea but I would base a whole team around status. Paralysis is usually something you add when you have issues against fast attackers like Blaziken, WoW you add if you have issues stomaching heavy physical mons like Garchomp, Dnite, and Mienshao. Toxic is basically just used in place of a battering ram / wallbreaker like SD Haxorus.
 
ProjectTitan313 said:
I'd assume he's pairing Blaziken + Hydreigon, or Venusaur + Heatran. He's only bringing 3 mons at a time, so if two of them don't synergize particularly well it's no problem most of the time. Hydreigon pairs with both Megas, and Cress would likely be his answer to Mence. Talonflame does literally nothing to Heatran, and Specs Hydra also blows its balls off. ParaFusion is great, I agree, but it doesn't have to be on every team. My most successful team ever peaked right after I removed my SwagPlay Klefki, lol.

Skill and prediction is important in all metas: I could go on a 3 paragraph rant for Doubles, but there isn't much reason to do so and is off topic here :P
Incorporating status into a team (ie Thundy for T-Wave) is usually a good idea but I would base a whole team around status. Paralysis is usually something you add when you have issues against fast attackers like Blaziken, WoW you add if you have issues stomaching heavy physical mons like Garchomp, Dnite, and Mienshao. Toxic is basically just used in place of a battering ram / wallbreaker like SD Haxorus.
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That makes sense. But I'm not saying he needs Parafusion lol. I was just giving an example of the importance of strategy, that you Swagger special attackers before you paralyze them if you're faster since it reduces sir chance to attack more.

You're prolly right about status. I'm not sure it's good to have it be my main thing. I'll often have two users of t-wave, sometimes even three. That can be really bad sometimes when id prefer something naturally fast rather than something that needs support.
 
I agree on the fact that Bss is very competitive. Usually people underestimate this meta, swiftly assuming that is an unbalanced tier, probably because a miss calculation leads to a sweep in 3 turns.
Instead I see it like a fast chess game, you HAVE to be ahead with your mind to be successfull. I pretty much think it's very balanced, competitive and unique in his kind.
Another thing i like is that here, instead of vgc, there is a little bit bigger pool of pokemon you can use without losing too much on team power (ok, maybe not that much bigger, but it's still better to see 20 mons instead of 12.)

I apologize for my poor english, i'm still learning it.
 
freekhoorn said:
I think people are too prepared for mega mence to sweep effectively with it.
Click to expand...

I agree, and as a MegaMence user i find it very difficult to sweep vs mons like p2, cresselia, mawile, azumaril, rotom-H/W and similar, and it's true that Mence is still able to deal so much damage and can be built in so many different ways that it is always a threat, even if countered (for example SpD Facade Mence wins over rotom H/W or SpA Mence can do damage to mawile [physical variant kill Mawile with EQ if at +1 or even +2 is maw has some bulk] ), but tbh he is not the best mega so probably building a team around Kanga/Gengar/Mawile is a better idea... So yeah, probably i shouldn't be so surprised about that.

Instead what really amazes me is the big Cloyster presence. I'm a huge fan of Cloyster, exp the Scarf variant
 
I feel Salamence is being a bit undervalued. I kinda see it in the same light as Blaziken (but with recovery) in that it's insanely strong without even needing to set up, but it has the ability to set up and becomes insanely dangerous if it does. I'd say people are prepared for it insofar as they have Ice-type moves, but I don't think Salamence needs to necessarily sweep a team to have done its job. Adamant Double-Edge is stupid strong (has a 50% chance to OHKO 252 HP Azumarill), and the physical bulk is still insane. I've been able to pull off 1v3 sweeps before just because Salamence was able to set up on physical super-effective hits, so I wouldn't say it's anything less than one of the best. It's definitely not the broken mess people think it is like it was in OU, but I'd personally put right behind the big 3 Megas (Kang/Gengar/Blaze). Or at the least I'd say it's better than Mawile, I'm personally not in agreement with that thing getting as much usage as it does.
 
freekhoorn said:
Yes thats true! I think people are too prepared for mega mence to sweep effectively with it.
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Well, one could say this of MegaKhan too, no? I'm sure plenty of people use Blaziken, Rocky Helmet Cress/Hippo, and Lando-T with the intent of killing the bloody queen of all megas :P
Khan and Mence are of such omnipresence than people very much build with them in mind; but thanks to Khan's ability and extremely diverse coverage it's impossible to truly counter all forms of it. Mence, similar situation: between its amazing stat distribution and Aerilate, it can hit very hard on both offensive spectrums, while being one of the most absolutely (physically) bulkiest mons in the game on top of killer Speed and coverage. Both mons can directly pick their own counters and checks. Which yes, is the root of the convoluted fuckfest bans in OU, but eh.
 
ProjectTitan313 said:
Well, one could say this of MegaKhan too, no? I'm sure plenty of people use Blaziken, Rocky Helmet Cress/Hippo, and Lando-T with the intent of killing the bloody queen of all megas :P
Khan and Mence are of such omnipresence than people very much build with them in mind; but thanks to Khan's ability and extremely diverse coverage it's impossible to truly counter all forms of it. Mence, similar situation: between its amazing stat distribution and Aerilate, it can hit very hard on both offensive spectrums, while being one of the most absolutely (physically) bulkiest mons in the game on top of killer Speed and coverage. Both mons can directly pick their own counters and checks. Which yes, is the root of the convoluted fuckfest bans in OU, but eh.
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You are right, and on top of that, mega khan even develops to the meta: first it used more earthquake because it is not a contact move, after that when people used levitate or flying mons it used rock slide and now it uses secret power because that does not have contact a well and has a high chance of paraflinching. All these changes made my rocky helmet avalugg less and less good at countering kang and bulky aegislash is a lot more helpful now, because it tanks an unboosted earthquake. Still though, people can still run other moves on their kang than are common in the nowadays meta ofcourse. I today got swept by a special fire blastusing kangh.
 
ProjectTitan313 said:
Well, one could say this of MegaKhan too, no? I'm sure plenty of people use Blaziken, Rocky Helmet
Click to expand...

The problem with Kang is that she has so many options, that even if you have a counter it's still hard to handle. You can go with a standard attacker, a special attacker, a mixed version, an utility version with rock tomb and similar, and every attack you use will have 2 chances to proc. For example Secret power is a nightmare. 30%x2 chances to para + good STAB damage. I think Kang is overall a better mega than Mence. She is still counterable tho

Imo the most fearsome in the bss tier it's MGengar
 
Solerme said:
... and every attack you use will have 2 chances to proc. For example Secret power is a nightmare. 30%x2 chances to para + good STAB damage.
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Secret Power doesn't work like this, it has a static 30% chance to paralyse. We tested this on cart and had the PS mechanics changed to match.

The thing people like about Secret Power (I think) is avoiding Iron Barbs / Rough Skin / Rock Helmet damage, with the Scald-level chance of paralysing being a nifty extra. This means you can muscle through Cresselia without succumbing to recoil while it Moonlights in your face...
 
http://aaaapokemon.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-173.html

Let's talk about the top S16 teams. Pretty late in posting in this i think but just got back from vacation and checked aaapokemon today. Some pretty interesting teams here, i'm sure a lot of these will be really fun to try out. I think the one i'm most interested in is that Dnite/Blaziken stall team.

Cool to see so many glalie teams at the top this season, that's a playstyle i really enjoy. Nice to see it getting more results.

Also only 4 hippo teams here this season. That's significantly less than the last two seasons so that's pretty refreshing to see.
 
I was actually talking about this team earlier and Joint Cena had been using it a bit. What's funny about that team is that they don't run Tyranitar, and consider Blissey their Gengar answer thanks to Thunder Wave and Ice Beam giving it a chance to eventually win unless it's Perish Song Gengar. Then Rocky Helmet is used there and not on Skarmory because Rocky Helmet + Seismic Toss + Double-Edge recoil kills Mega Kangaskhan. Running Toxic on Blaziken is also very intuitively simple but perfect on this team in a similar way that Wisp Blaziken is so good, and kinda lets this team crush other Stall teams better.

I'm also a fan of the Mega Sharpedo team with Wobbuffet and Entei, I ran Mega Sharpedo for awhile and thought it was pretty solid so it's cool to see such a unique team up there with it.
 
Psynergy said:
I was actually talking about this team earlier and Joint Cena had been using it a bit. What's funny about that team is that they don't run Tyranitar, and consider Blissey their Gengar answer thanks to Thunder Wave and Ice Beam giving it a chance to eventually win unless it's Perish Song Gengar. Then Rocky Helmet is used there and not on Skarmory because Rocky Helmet + Seismic Toss + Double-Edge recoil kills Mega Kangaskhan. Running Toxic on Blaziken is also very intuitively simple but perfect on this team in a similar way that Wisp Blaziken is so good, and kinda lets this team crush other Stall teams better.

I'm also a fan of the Mega Sharpedo team with Wobbuffet and Entei, I ran Mega Sharpedo for awhile and thought it was pretty solid so it's cool to see such a unique team up there with it.
Click to expand...

A... fast Wobby? Why?
 
ProjectTitan313 said:
A... fast Wobby? Why?
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I have no patience to put this in a translator. Fast Wobby is just weird, tho this being a Japanese person they have a good rating anyways. I guess the point is to outspeed and Encore more stuff(also maybe Charm and Destiny Bond for sure.) In theory taking more damage is a small price to pay since it means more dealt with Counter and Mirror Coat, but Wobb don't outspeed much so weird. I guess min Aegi and Rhyperior...mayb base 50s with lots of investment. Doesn't seem reasonable to me tho.
 
Psynergy said:
I was actually talking about this team earlier and Joint Cena had been using it a bit. What's funny about that team is that they don't run Tyranitar, and consider Blissey their Gengar answer thanks to Thunder Wave and Ice Beam giving it a chance to eventually win unless it's Perish Song Gengar. Then Rocky Helmet is used there and not on Skarmory because Rocky Helmet + Seismic Toss + Double-Edge recoil kills Mega Kangaskhan. Running Toxic on Blaziken is also very intuitively simple but perfect on this team in a similar way that Wisp Blaziken is so good, and kinda lets this team crush other Stall teams better.

I'm also a fan of the Mega Sharpedo team with Wobbuffet and Entei, I ran Mega Sharpedo for awhile and thought it was pretty solid so it's cool to see such a unique team up there with it.
Click to expand...
I'd love to see a properly translated version of that. Seems interesting.
 
As Psynergy said, I was using this team on the Pokemon Showdown ladder and it did decently good on my alts olol.

My ranking for using this team: http://prntscr.com/bknytz W:38 L:15 (I know its not that high or great W/L ratio but at least I made it somewhere on the ladder haha)

It does have problem against certain stall teams mons such as Rest Calm mind Mega Slowbro since the only way to "beat" it is to pretty much Toxic stall it with Blaziken and Sub/Protect with Gliscor or by clicking X best way to beat it. Blissey can beat it buuut its gonna take 500 years to PP Stall it, probably more effective on cart than on PS.
Suicune can also be a problem that can threaten many mons on the team, however, Dragonite with Thunderpunch handles it decently surprisingly Blissey is the common switch in so you can thunder wave it and "beat it" with Seismic Toss.
Theres other threats to watch out for which I will write down later on.


There are other big threat which I note down in a few, but for now I will leave you the paste bin of the team if anyone wants to use it :)
Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Toxic
- Flare Blitz
- Protect

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Thunder Punch
- Outrage

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 212 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Guillotine

Blissey @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Iron Head
- Toxic

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 220 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off

http://pastebin.com/RQZyTtnZ

The sets and items are surprising for certain mons. Ex- Blissey holding the rocky Helmet and Skarm with Leftovers (Usually its Blissey with Leftovers and Skarm with Rocky Helmet or Safety goggles to prevent it from getting spored by Breloom and Amoongus, not that Leftovers is a bad item on Skarm by any means but I would prefer it better on Bliss) Blaziken with Toxic is pretty interesing as well and effective, the combination of Protect + Toxic is really good since it wears down anything it makes a good combination with Gliscor since you can rack up Toxic damage on the opponent by stalling it with Sub and Protect. Psy said most of it in his post as well haha.
 
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