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Metagame 4v4 Doubles UU

ValiantValerie

ValiantValerie

How can I see roses, but only feel thorns?
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Metagame Resource Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
4v4 Doubles UU combines Smogon's tiering system and policies with VGC's unique format rules. This means a metagame without frustrating Pokemon like Sneasler and Miraidon, but also means a metagame without glue like Incineroar and Rillaboom. 4v4 Doubles UU will have tier shifts every 2 months to align with VGC's 4 month format length. We will be using VGC Regulation H Best of 3 1630 stats, with Pokemon at 4.52% usage and above banned. The Banned Pokemon are in the following image. Evasion Moves, Bright Powder, Commander, and Urshifu are notably community banned from every 4v4 Doubles UU format, as they bring the most overpowered and uncompetitive strategies in a doubles metagame.

1763599895986.png
/challenge gen9vgc2025regh@@@Force Open Team Sheets,Best Of = 3, -Incineroar, -Gholdengo, -Rillaboom, -Ursaluna, -Dragonite, -Sneasler, -Ninetales-Alola, -Annihilape, -Archaludon, -Basculegion, +Basculegion-F, -Volcarona, -Kingambit, -Amoonguss, -Pelipper, -Maushold, -Sinistcha, -Tyranitar, -Whimsicott, -Torkoal, -Porygon2, -Kilowattrel, -Farigiraf, -Indeedee-F, -Garchomp, -Dondozo, -Electabuzz, -Typhlosion-Hisui, -Indeedee, -Commander, -Bright Powder, Evasion Moves Clause, -Moody, -Defog

Because Regulation J is the current format on the VGC Ladder, it is also being hosted alongside Regulation H as a side-format. This is the banlist and challenge code:
1763605134146.png
/challenge gen9vgc2025regJ@@@Force Open Team Sheets,Best Of = 3, -Calyrex-Shadow-Rider, -Miraidon, -Rusted Shield, -Koraidon, -Lunala, -Calyrex-Ice-Rider, -Kyogre, -Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, -Incineroar, -Rillaboom, -Tornadus-Incarnate, -Iron Hands, -Chi-yu, -Flutter Mane, -Raging Bolt, -Farigiraf, -Amoonguss, -Chien-Pao, -Indeedee-F, -Whimsicott, -Grimmsnarl, -Landorus-Incarnate, -Ursaluna, +Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, -Smeargle, -Weezing-Galar, -Arceus-Normal, -Magearna, -Darkrai, -Volcarona, -Torkoal, -Groudon, -Annihilape, -Urshifu, -Terapagos, -Commander, -Bright powder, Evasion Moves Clause
Council:
ValiantValerie
gephicka
Nocturne Nugget
Sinnoy

VR Council:
Pengu
Fairy Juice Jay
SeaWolfMikes
thebusinesspiggy

Check out our Discord to interact further with the community! 4v4 Doubles UU Server
 
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Sample Teams:
Regulation H Sample Teams:
:Kommo-o: :Grimmsnarl: :Poltchageist: :Krookodile: :Pawmot: :Magmortar: - ClangKommo-o Screens by ValiantValerie
:Serperior: :Sneasel-Hisui: :Grimmsnarl: :Torracat: :Basculegion-F: :Comfey: - Serperior Sneasel Set-up Balance by ValiantValerie
:Bronzong: :Rhyperior: :Smeargle: :Primarina: :Baxcalibur: :Meowscarada: - Rhyperior Semiroom by gephicka
:Goodra-Hisui: :Primarina: :Glimmora: :Brambleghast: :Talonflame: :Krookodile: - Specs Hoodra HO by gephicka
:Tinkaton: :Volbeat: :Hawlucha: :Rotom-Wash: :Skeledirge: :Brambleghast: - Swagger Hawlucha by Sinnoy & thebusinesspiggy
:Meowscarada: :Primarina: :Arcanine-Hisui: :Dragapult: :Conkeldurr: :Glimmora: - Swamp Pledges BO by SeaWolfMikes
:Sylveon: :Excadrill: :Hippowdon: :Bronzong: :Tsareena: :Talonflame: - Sand Tailroom by sheepie
:Scizor: :Politoed: :Talonflame: :Glimmora: :Kingdra: :Tsareena: - Choice Specs Talonflame Rain by sheepie
:Primarina: :Metagross: :Zoroark-Hisui: :Illumise: :Brambleghast: :Clefairy: - Double Ghost Tailwind by merrypasta
:Salamence: :Tinkaton: :Basculegion-F: :Arcanine-Hisui: :Sneasel-hisui: :Smeargle: - Howl Harcanine Offense by Sizzlipede & Snom

Regulation J Sample Teams (WIP):
:Zacian: :Indeedee: :Arcanine-Hisui: :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: :Kingambit: :Iron Bundle: - Swords Dance Zacian Semiroom by SeaWolfMikes
:Zekrom: :Arceus-Water: :Gouging Fire: :Kingambit: :Ogerpon-Hearthflame: :Weavile: - Scale Shot Zekrom Offense by ValiantValerie
:Solgaleo: :Ho-Oh: :Gouging Fire: :Landorus-Therian: :Ogerpon-Hearthflame: :Ting-Lu: - WP Solgaleo + Ho Oh by Sinnoy
:Zacian: :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: :Talonflame: :Ogerpon-Wellspring: :Iron Valiant: :Indeedee: - Iron Valiant Psyspam HO by merrypasta
 
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SpritePokemonSpeedNatureEVsIVsBoosts
:Hawlucha:Hawlucha340Neutral25231+2
:Brambleghast:Brambleghast312Positive25231+2
:Excadrill:Excadrill308Positive25231+2
:Drifblim: :Shiftry:Drifblim. Shiftry290Positive25231+2
:Meowscarada:Meowscarada288Positive25231+2
:Basculegion-F:Basculegion-F286Poistive25231+1
:Brambleghast:Brambleghast284Neutral25231+2
:Excadrill:Excadrill280Neutral25231+2
:Kingdra:Kingdra274Neutral25231+2
:Houndstone:Houndstone264Positive25231+2
:Basculegion-F:Basculegion-F260Neutral25231+2
:Baxcalibur:Baxcalibur228Positive25231+1
:Staraptor:Staraptor228Neutral25231+1
:Electrode:Electrode222Positive25231+0
:Chandelure: :Gallade: :Gardevoir: :Mamoswine:Chandelure, Gallade, Gardevoir, Mamoswine217Positive25231+1
:Basculegion-F:Basculegion-F214Positive25231+1
:Dragapult:Dragapult213Positive25231+0
:Baxcalibur:Baxcalibur208Neutral25231+1
:Kommo-o:Kommo-o205Neutral25231+1
:Talonflame:Talonflame195Positive25231+0
:Dragapult:Dragapult194Neutral25231+0
:Weavile:Weavile194Positive25231+0
:Meowscarada:Meowscarada192Positive25231+0
:Cinderace:Cinderace188Positive25231+0
:Sneasel-Hisui:Sneasel-Hisui183Positive25231+0
:Serperior:Serperior181Positive25231+0
:Talonflame:Talonflame178Neutral25231+0
:Zoroark-Hisui:Zoroark-Hisui178Positive25231+0
:Mienshao: :Pawmot:Mienshao, Pawmot172Positive25231+0
:Ninetales: :Salamence: :Tauros-Paldea: :Toedscruel:Ninetales, Salamence, Tauros-Paldea-Aqua, Tauros-Paldea-Blaze, Toedscruel167Positive25231+0
:Hydreigon:Hydreigon165Positive25231+0
:Zoroark-Hisui:Zoroark-Hisui162Neutral25231+0
:Electivire:Electivire161Positive25231+0
:Arcanine-Hisui: :Brambleghast: :Torracat:Arcanine-Hisui, Brambleghast, Torracat156Positive25231+0
:Vivillon:Vivillon155Positive25231+0
:Baxcalibur:Baxcalibur152Positive25231+0
:Glimmora: :Rotom-Wash:Glimmora, Rotom-Wash151Positive25231+0
:Hydreigon:Hydreigon150Neutral25231+0
:Tinkaton:Tinkaton146Neutral25231+0
:Arcanine-Hisui: :Brambleghast:Arcanine-Hisui, Brambleghast142Neutral25231+0
:Baxcalibur:Baxcalibur139Neutral25231+0
:Smeargle:Smeargle139Positive25231+0
:Glimmora:Glimmora138Neutral25231+0
:Kommo-o:Kommo-o137Neutral25231+0
:Weezing-Galar:Weezng-Galar123Positive25231+0
:Bisharp: :Metagross:Bisharp, Metagross122Neutral25231+0
:Magmar:Magmar113Neutral031+0
:Primarina:Primarina112Neutral25231+0
:Torracat:Torracat110Neuutral031+0
:Dragapult:Dragapult106Neutral25231-2
:Tsareena:Tsareena92Neutral031+0
:Bisharp: :Metagross: :Politoed:Bisharp, Metagross, Politoed90Neutral031+0
:Skeledirge:Skeledirge86Neutral031+0
:Gothitelle: :Scizor:Gothitelle, Scizor85Neutral031+0
:Goodra-Hisui: :Grimmsnarl: :Primarina: :Weezing-Galar:Goodra-Hisui, Grimmsnarl, Primarina, Weezing-Galar80Neutral031+0
:Chandelure:Chandelure76Negative00+0
:Gothitelle:Gothitelle63Negative00+0
:Primarina:Primarina58Negative00+0
:Scrafty:Scrafty56Negative00+0
:Hariyama: :Poltchageist:Hariyama, Poltchageist49Negative00+0
:Hippowdon:Hippowdon46Negative00+0
:Hydrapple:Hydrapple44Negative00+0
:Gastrodon: :Rhyperior:Gastrodon, Rhyperior40Negative00+0
:Garganacl:Garganacl36Negative00+0
:Bronzong:Bronzong34Negative00+0
:Slowbro: :Slowking:Slowbro, Slowking31Negative00+0
:Hatterene:Hatterene30Negative00+0
:Dusclops:Dusclops27Negative00+0
:Pincurchin:Pincurchin18Negative00+0
 
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this fomrat has been quite easily some of the most fun ive had playing mons in a long time, and I'm super excited to see it become a um. massive congrats and thanks to val and geph and the whole team for putting so much effort in (even if you never listen to my very fair and unbiased ban arguments >:c). Excited for the future of the tier and I would love to contribute more to the tier.
 
Hello here, I am Mrpizzaofoz, those who are in this format know me as the middest player alive. And rightfully so, but I still remain in this format because it's the most fun format ever. Congratulation Luna and Gep stinks. I am sad I was not able to play this format much due to my ass time zone and was not able to contribute much but this step makes 4v4 Doubles UU even more accessible. As a UM this has so much potential. (now i can play 2 formats for UMFL maybe). Hopefully we get many more members join this and love this tier (and push me to irrelevancy). But this was a long time coming after so much hard work from luna and gep. 4v4 Doubles UU Deserves it. Hopefully I am able to contribute more (and not be sent this
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)

Thank you again for this amazing format and here is more to come. Also, those who are new to 4v4 Doubles UU Sinnoy has missed 13 fissures in a row, he is truly mid remember that. But yeah, again look forward to contributing more.
 
ItzS1lver said:
Silver here, ever since i joined this format, I’ve had lots of fun, even when there aren’t that many people it’s still enjoyable imo, even though I suck and I am probably the worst player in this format that is active, I still love it
(Also here is funny image cuz why not)
Click to expand...
You are not the worst player, not even close, trust me. You haven't seen me play (cause i suck so bad I don't play) using this thread to hype me up as i have the greatest comeback ever and become the best 4v4 doubles uu player
 
This is one of the most fun and enjoyable tier’s I’ve ever been lucky enough to play and has an amazing community and tier leadership to boot! This tier is super special to me because it’s by far my favorite of the new metagames I joined after getting back into competitive pokemon 2 years back, even though I’m probably one of the most mid, casual players in the format lol. Huge congratulations to Val and Geph and the rest of the council/leadership for finally getting some of the recognition you deserve and can’t wait to see even more players realize that this tier is literally so much fun!!

And Sinnoy ofc, congratulations on having more mishmakers to ping this is truly your greatest accomplishment yet
 
Congrats to Geph and Valerie for taking ~~VGC UU~~ 4v4 DUU all this way!

Just wanted to share first public team for Reg H UU

:salamence::tinkaton::basculegion-f::arcanine-hisui::sneasel-hisui::smeargle:

Basculegion is broken, slightly weaker Basculegion-M from reg VGC. Scarf Last Respects w/ Adaptability is one of the strongest clicks in the game, and is a really solid late-game cleaner.
Mence and HArc are here for speed control + double intimidate (to deal with broken Brambleghast).
Tinkaton is mainly here for the Kommo-o matchup, though this slot is easily the most flexible.
H-Sneasel is an amazing Pokemon in 4v4DUU, mainly because of its speed tier (it outspeeds Serperior by 2 points) and amazing typing, allowing it to pressure Primarina. Taunt + Coaching also allows it to function as a support tool (Coaching for AV Tinkaton / Mence / Hisui-Arcanine).

Smeargle is a running joke in the community (Smeargle Slop). iykyk
In reality, Smeargle provides a much needed check to Poltergeist Brambleghast via Follow Me + Spore pressure under Tailwind + double Fake Out allows for a lot of freedom with the rest of the team.

Join 4v4DUU Discord :)
 
sample teams & speed tiers are updated now!

wanted to go over a few trends we saw @ the recent Regulation H Weekly going into our Regionals (the password to join is "gephicka stinks"!) to wrap up the format next week

:basculegion-f:
this guy popped the fuck off, with both Swift Swim & adaptability variants placing really high. between rain & scarf it has a lot of really strong ways of boosting its speed, with CB on rain being able to pick up some nasty OHKOs & Scarf adaptability being a terrifying late-game cleaner with the perfect speed tier (hitting 143 w. max jolly allowing it to outspeed dragapult). Scarf's self sufficiency allows it to actually contest Primarina for the water-type slot, while Swift Swim in rain allows it to outdamage the majority of the tier

some basculegion replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485815540
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485771317

:torracat:
lil-incin is having its time in the sun for once— having essentially the exact same combination of utility moves that make its older brother so dominant, with comparable bulk from eviolite and an even higher base 90 speed tier, its defensive utility was essential to a lot of the balance teams that did well at this event. torracat has seen decent usage in previous regulations for its ability to check restricteds like Zacian, but in the lower-power meta of Regulation H UU it took a bit to really hit its stride

some torracat replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485818714-oamooafbv0925tx6mbe6uc009850x28pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485820464-t5obxdq2hptu826qobhfpb39e7uxj2ipw

:comfey:
this guy just has really good utility, having both tailwind and trick room in conjunction with priority floral healing makes it a really flexible support option that's able to anchor its team through healing. it's honestly a bit passive, i'm a little doubtful it'll see significant usage beyond this event but it definitely put in work.

some comfey replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regh-2485796361-sk3qbgjydwo1qtfm522grn9d5abaowgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485780627

:goodra-hisui:
with both Choice Specs and Assault vest putting up numbers, Hoodra had a great tour (told you so thebusinesspiggy). It's really able to out-stat a vast majority of the metagame, with Specs being able to damage trade really effectively & AV just serving as a sponge. Goodra is especially good for how it's able to handle all of the water type attackers in the tier & utilize its superb coverage to hit just about everything.

some goodra replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485779054-8uwkqt0mgtpi6tlectfs0snyyfhdrl4pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025reghbo3-2485778419

:talonflame: & :smeargle:
two meta-defining monsters both took a nosedive this week. Smeargle's litany of support options allows it to get almost guaranteed value. As the best spore user in the tier, it forces massive respect in the builder— with even taunt not being enough to stop Ruination sets from putting in work. Talonflame is the best priority Tailwind user in the format and thrives on offensive teams— it's a bit weak but usually uses boosting items like Life Orb or Sharp Beak to offset its middling offenses. Overall this tournament meta favored bulkier & balance structures that have a lot of tools to deal with Smeargle & Talonflame, and Smeargle especially has seen a lot of adaptations punishing the teams it usually fits on— primarily slower builds that rely on damage trades & don't usually have a lot of speed control (affectionately referred to as "smeargleslop" by the community)— have definitely fallen out of favor a bit.

i think the meta in general is favoring balances that have tools like Basculegion to accelerate the pace, allowing them to blow through both set-up and weakened teams. curious to see how the regional turns out next weekend!
 
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While there isn't a VR out yet for Reg J, I'm going to make my pitch for Iron Valiant's inclusion as the format comes to a close.
It is indeed on a sample team, one built by me in fact, but the general consensus in the community was that it is a mediocre option with some niche traits that make it leagues better than something like Raichu but not really worthy of a high ranking.
However, as of Reg J Shift 2, this has changed.
Kickoff had Iron Valiant at 2nd, piloted by me: (I don't recommend using Hypnosis.)
And the following Weekly I won, once again using Iron Valiant: (This team became the sample.)
Two other players also opted to use Iron Valiant, pairing it with Ho-Oh as a bulkier coaching recipient, kind of like Calyrex-Ice, which Iron Valiant was paired with to reach 2nd place at the 2024 World Championships in VGC.
But, admittedly, Sneasler is usually the Coaching user of choice. Iron Valiant being used more is clearly a new phenomenon that some top players like Gephicka don't agree with, at least not fully. So, what does it do that Sneasler can't?
Well, it has a few key qualities that Sneasler doesn't, which have contributed to its newfound usage.
  • It has a better design.
  • Its speed tier beats out the giants like Zacian, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Speed, Scarf Indeedee, Scarf Kyurem, Booster Speed Iron Moth, Walking Wake and so on. It is outsped naturally (or with Booster Energy) by very few things in the metagame, which makes it desirable as a support Pokemon.
  • It's able to use reliable speed control in the form of Icy Wind, allowing a partner like Zacian to outspeed those speed demons and scarf users.
  • Due to its speed stat, it also pairs best with Zacian due to the fact it's the only coaching user that can outspeed Zacian without running a slower set, using Choice Scarf, or artificially setting up, such as with Agility. Unburden Sneasler isn't horrible, but if you lead it and Indeedee, you're in a dicy situation where if you switch to Zacian, it's wide open for a whole turn, and if you don't, Sneasler is frail and likely to die. Your plan is also very telepgrahed in both scenarios, and with Iron Valiant you can just lead it and Zacian, plain and simple.
  • Unlike Sneasler, it has access to more varied support moves, like Encore, Taunt, Disable, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, Screens, and Wide Guard. Also, Hypnosis exists. I used it to commit evil acts during the Kickoff, but I don't recommend it, it's inconsistent. Regardless, you can watch a demonstration of that if you'd like. If you're horrified, you could watch a more ethical replay showcasing Skwovetboi's Encore Iron Valiant dismantling stall. There's also a game of me using Coaching Iron Valiant and Choice Band Zacian to sweep a full team, but unfortunately it wasn't saved as a replay. SeaWolfMikes saw the game, it was the semifinals of Kickoff.
  • It's a Fairy type. This isn't Gen 6, but due to the fact several old restricteds and power crept Pokemon overall are Dragon types, it doesn't hurt to have that matchup.
  • It's a mixed attacker. Intimidate can't slow it down as easily, likewise, Vessel of Ruin can't wall it either. Without investing a single point into Attack, it's taking a 2HKO into Max HP Ting-Lu, even if they invest a considerable amount (100 EVs to be precise) into physical bulk. It has the same Attack and Sneasler, however, so if you want, it's going to match it in physical damage. You could also run 252 Atk and Moonblast, as Spirit Break is weaker despite its good secondary effect.
  • It's also just cool. It deserves to be ranked. At least C tier. I'll bribe you in 100 Bad Bunny themed water bottles, Gephicka.
Anyway, my personal VR ranks it at B+, because while I think it's very good, it's not at the same level as a speed control as Iron Bundle due to not being as fast and not having STAB on Icy Wind, however I think it is better as overall support, and I can even see a justification for not running Icy Wind on it in favour of something like Encore, Expanding Force, Thunder Wave, or fucking Fleur Cannon I'm sure it's buried somewhere in that movepool. Hopefully it gets ranked. Good luck and non-binary pride.
 
Hihi used 3/4 of the Pokemon that popped off at the weekly, this is gonna be a little addition to gephicka's post on the "why". Torracat is mini Incin yes, but why did it only shine now?

I think the meta was funnily enough, more offensive before Talonflame dropped down. Partly because of Typhloison-H, and because the best Tailwinders didnt threaten to instantly nuke Brambleghast turn 1. Not to mention SWM's swamp dominated the speed control. Talonflame's priority Dual Wingbeat puts pressure on Meowscarada before it can get swamp up, and the combination of Life Orb/Sharp Beak Talonflame + Brambleghast heavily encourages teams to have an Intimidator. The Tauros forms, Hitmontop, and Scrafty were vulnerable to Talonflame, Arcanine-Hisui had a crippling lack of utility, Krookodile was threatened by Brambleghast. and a large majority of the Intimidators like Luxray and Masquerain were underwhelming Pokemon. You're left with Salamence, Arcanine, and Torracat. Now the main things that put Torracat a step ahead in my opinion, were Fake Out, Parting Shot and Taunt. A Taunt faster than Smeargle felt important with how easily it can skew games, and the ability to cycle Fake Out and Intimidate with pivoting made Torracat a natural fit on any balance structure. I think these balance structures are very strong into the meta, as they can more adequetly respond to the tier's fast tailwind threats and rely less on speed ties.

The others not much to say, I agree that Comfey had a good niche tour and won't see omnipresent success. It can work on bulky balance with specific wincons but its both in specific match ups and on specific teams. Adaptibility Basculegion is undoubtedly the best endgame Pokemon in the tier, and is a perfect fit on these rising balance structures, very good into Talonflame stuff the moment Tailwind goes down, and can obliterate slower teams if they dont tread around it carefully. The Basculegion was definitely the MVP of my run.
 
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