Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

[Slheyas]

The only absolute counter to Talonflame that's in gen5 OU atm is Tyranitar, everything else can fail. Rotom Wash can take 2 hits sure, but if it comes already damaged, or if a crit happen, it's dead.

Heatran doesn't take much damage either, but what can it do? Start carrying Stone Edge or HP Rock?

 

[Peperonepower]

The only absolute counter to Talonflame that's in gen5 OU atm is Tyranitar, everything else can fail. Rotom Wash can take 2 hits sure, but if it comes already damaged, or if a crit happen, it's dead.

Heatran doesn't take much damage either, but what can it do? Start carrying Stone Edge or HP Rock?

How about Tyrantrum? Sorry if this was already discussed, but I usually do alright against Talonflame thanks to this guy.

Edit: Sorry, didn't noticed you were talking about gen5 OU. But even so, I think Tyrantrum is a great answer to Talonflame.

 

[Slheyas]

Tyrantrum works great against him too. But so does Rhyperior and a bunch of other rock types.

If these guys don't end up in OU I doubt they'll be seen much in the tier even if they're good at countering the bird.

 

[Thorhammer]

Sharp beak BB on -2 def 4/0 barbaracle is 59.4% - 70.1%

Shell Smash gives -1, not -2.

 

[doublenikesocks]

Been using Rotom-W quite a bit and can say it is still extremely effective. Being a good check to Talomflame is always nice. As well as being a great Volt-Turn member makes it a solid choice. There is just so much spam of various stuff weak to Lightning and Water around to cause Rotom to be a good team member. I also like its ability to spam WoW without much thought.

 

[moonbase]

Iron head genesect FTW

 

[Mood4food77]

The only absolute counter to Talonflame that's in gen5 OU atm is Tyranitar, everything else can fail. Rotom Wash can take 2 hits sure, but if it comes already damaged, or if a crit happen, it's dead.

Heatran doesn't take much damage either, but what can it do? Start carrying Stone Edge or HP Rock?

talonflame is frail as shit, it's acrobatics is a 5HKO with flying gem while heatran has a little over a 20% chance to 2HKO talonflame

choice band brave bird is the same

i'd say heatran is a pretty good counter (also, this is the straight offensive heatran with leftovers)

 

[CakeGuy]

I've been using Talonflame lately and am doing pretty well @ 1.5-1.7 3v3 ratings bracket.

He is an amazing late game sweeper and a suicide priority tailwind is a good set-up for slow burst damagers (I'm using MegaMawile)

This coupled with U-Turn also makes him a good scout, I'm not running roost though but I might switch it with U-Turn since a priority heal is always good.

The only problem tho is that since he is frail a lot of pokemon can 2hko hiim and will outdamage roost in the long run, reason as to why i run U-Turn since I don't even have to roost if I can switch instead.

I'm also thinking of exploring Tailwind Suicide Talonflame coupled with MegaBlastoise with HP/SpDef Build and Iron defense+Toxic

 

[Kriptini]

The only absolute counter to Talonflame that's in gen5 OU atm is Tyranitar

Or anything remotely offensive with a Focus Sash.

 

[Mood4food77]

if they require a focus sash, they can only revenge kill, not counter

a counter is something that can safely switch in and either beat the living pulp out of it with no worries or force it to go crying back to daddy

 

[Dave [old]]

Focus Sash isn't exactly the most reliable way of countering anything though, even if it does work.

Also someone mentioned Heatran as a counter earlier, don't put HP Rock onto it, it gets Ancientpower which has just as high a BP as Hidden Power given its nerf.

Gliscor's also a nice counter which I've used several times, even at +4 Acrobatics fails to OHKO, you can either run Stone Edge on your set or run Toxic and Roost strategically.

 

[Thorhammer]

Also someone mentioned Heatran as a counter earlier, don't put HP Rock onto it, it gets Ancientpower which has just as high a BP as Hidden Power given its nerf.

I swear, the shitstorms that will ensue if Ancientpower, Ominous Wind, and Silver Wind get a noticeable presence as alternatives to Hidden Powers of their type and start giving their random boosts...

To be fair, they have terrible PP as their one failing compared to Hidden Power.

 

[Morbidius]

I swear, the shitstorms that will ensue if Ancientpower, Ominous Wind, and Silver Wind get a noticeable presence as alternatives to Hidden Powers of their type and start giving their random boosts...

To be fair, they have terrible PP as their one failing compared to Hidden Power.

Hidden power ghost and bug are almost unused.

 

[SlaXer]

So, realistically speaking does something besides Aegislash and Talonflame has a chance at being OU?. I can see Adaptability Dragalge and Klefki working in OU, but I seriously doubt their status as actual OU pokemon. Everything else just seems incredible underwhelming imo.


Oh yeah, there's Zygarde too, I guess.

 

[CJorex]

I don't know if it has already been mentioned, but I just want to let everyone know that Azumarill will almost definitely be OU this gen. I just made a 6th gen team and slapped him on, but he just destroys everything with Play Rough and Aqua Jet. This may be because of good matchups, but half the time I get swept by CB Azumarill as well, so he is probably certain.
P.S. People who have used Togekiss in the Battle Maison have reacted positively to his new type, so OU is probably not a far stretch for him either.

 

[Blitzenith]

Oh yeah? Does he destroy Aegislash? DOES HE!?

 

[Photofluid]

Despite less common, I would like to propose #715 Noivern

First, I don't know if any of you have realised it, the once shitty ability infiltrator now bypasses substitute. This alone have checked many of the strategy currently viable, most notably protect/substitute. Unfortunately he doesn't process the many frustrating support moves blocked by substitutes, this may be a concern for other infiltrator users, but as far as I know the pool is really small, and many of them have better choices like prankster and shadow tag.

Secondly, despite having a rather pitiful 97 SpA and no access to offensive stats boost, its movepool is really deep, which involves Flamethrower /Dragon pulse /Air Slash/Dracometeor /Psychic /Shadow Ball /Dark Pulse /Solar beam(wtf?) /Focus blast for the special side.

But most importantly, it has the semi-signature Boomburst, 140BP and 100 accuracy, and U-turn, which is shared by no other dragon pokemon outside Flygon. A 123 Spd Taunt/Moonlight/Roost is also sth that should be appreciated.

 

[Talpr0ne]

So, realistically speaking does something besides Aegislash and Talonflame has a chance at being OU?. I can see Adaptability Dragalge and Klefki working in OU, but I seriously doubt their status as actual OU pokemon. Everything else just seems incredible underwhelming imo.


Oh yeah, there's Zygarde too, I guess.

Why the fuck everyone seems to forget based gods Hawlucha and Barbaracle?

 

[Kejmur]

So, realistically speaking does something besides Aegislash and Talonflame has a chance at being OU?. I can see Adaptability Dragalge and Klefki working in OU, but I seriously doubt their status as actual OU pokemon. Everything else just seems incredible underwhelming imo.


Oh yeah, there's Zygarde too, I guess.

If Tyrantrum is confirmed to get Rock Head (so far it is confirmed) pure power which STAB Head Smash brings into table is enough to bring it into OU. Choice Band hits like a nuke (and he has resistances to switch into and with Talonflame everywhere it shouldn't be hard to get in + it's fast enough to outspeed all crucial OU walls), and he can also go with Rock Polish/Dragon Dance for late game sweep/cleaning (which also fixes his speed problems) or even mid-game wallbreaking to open holes for someone else like MegaLucario or SD Garchomp.

And I wouldn't doubt Adaptability Dragalge status in OU (check this things calcs + GREAT resistances with good special bulk to switch in often). It hurts. And thanks to second Poison STAB typing Fairies aren't safe either except MMawile and Kiefki.

I know everyone is forgetting, but if stall becomes more popular (or just balanced), Eviolite Doublade is totally fine OU pick. This bulk is amazing. Looking for more defensive Steel/Ghost ? Here it is.

 

[Captain Awesome]

If Tyrantrum is confirmed to get Rock Head (so far it is confirmed) pure power which STAB Head Smash brings into table is enough to bring it into OU. Choice Band hits like a nuke (and he has resistances to switch into and with Talonflame everywhere it shouldn't be hard to get in + it's fast enough to outspeed all crucial OU walls), and he can also go with Rock Polish/Dragon Dance for late game sweep/cleaning (which also fixes his speed problems) or even mid-game wallbreaking to open holes for someone else like MegaLucario or SD Garchomp.

And I wouldn't doubt Adaptability Dragalge status in OU (check this things calcs + GREAT resistances with good special bulk to switch in often). It hurts. And thanks to second Poison STAB typing Fairies aren't safe either except MMawile and Kiefki.

everything you said in that post applies to Rock Head Aggron as well and he's far from OU

 

[Kejmur]

everything you said in that post applies to Rock Head Aggron as well and he's far from OU

Higher base attack (11 in this case really matters), better typing (no glaring x4 weaknesses like in case of Aggron), higher base speed (by 21 points, it's HUGE difference for both Dragon Dancing and Rock Polish and it also allows Choice Band to outspeed many OU walls which Aggron can't). And his bulk is workable enough. Also Aggron wishes to have access to Dragon Dance. Yeah, his weaknesses to Mach Punch/Bullet Punch sucks (but it's neutral to Aqua Jet, which is cool), but if you face Choice Band set, every single user of those priorities go in one, max two hits (120 HP Conkeldurr goes in two hits from CB Head Smash, just to say it). Scizor, Breelom and Azumarill all go in one hit.

 

[Thorhammer]

Higher base attack (11 in this case really matters), better typing (no glaring x4 weaknesses like in case of Aggron), higher base speed (by 21 points, it's HUGE difference for both Dragon Dancing and Rock Polish and it also allows Choice Band to outspeed many OU walls which Aggron can't). And his bulk is workable enough. Also Aggron wishes to have access to Dragon Dance. Yeah, his weaknesses to Mach Punch/Bullet Punch sucks (but it's neutral to Aqua Jet, which is cool), but if you face Choice Band set, every single user of those priorities go in one, max two hits (120 HP Conkeldurr goes in two hits from CB Head Smash, just to say it). Scizor, Breelom and Azumarill all go in one hit.

Tyrantrum may be powerful, but there are so many things competing for an OU spot that are just better.

 

[Mood4food77]

he's weak to aqua jet, mach punch, bullet punch, AND ice shard, the 4 most common priority attacks

although he does a great job against talonflame

 

[Todd]

he's weak to aqua jet, mach punch, bullet punch, AND ice shard, the 4 most common priority attacks

although he does a great job against talonflame

Not weak to aqua jet, he's neutral, though it probably won't matter to Azumarill either way. And mach punch will probably be less common now that Breloom has been thrown under the bus, plus the general nerf that fighting got this gen.

But just the fact that he's such a solid check, maybe even a counter to Talonflame might be enough to earn him a niche in OU

Because Talonflame is effin crazy

 

[Thorhammer]

Not weak to aqua jet, he's neutral, though it probably won't matter to Azumarill either way. And mach punch will probably be less common now that Breloom has been thrown under the bus, plus the general nerf that fighting got this gen.

But just the fact that he's such a solid check, maybe even a counter to Talonflame might be enough to earn him a niche in OU

Because Talonflame is effin crazy

I was among those lamenting Breloom's fall, but it seems Rock Tomb makes a fine substitute. Imperfect accuracy and lacks STAB, but Mach Punch gives him STAB anyway, so instead, he gets better coverage. Breloom loses out against Fairy-types, Grass-types, and on any of its Substitute sets, but my understanding is, none of those are that big of a deal. Breloom is prominent enough that it won't fall just from getting worse against two uncommon types and when using an uncommon set.

Talonflame sure is a big deal, though. Rock-types should love it.