Well, I got bored (possibly a month ago) and was sifting through the Lati@s thread. I decided I'd go ahead and make a Latios team. Of course, I was too impatient to wait for Latios' turn to come around... so I basically just changed Latios to Latias and made one or two small changes to it. Through testing, though, only one major change has occured (come to think of it, I think that was the only change at all). Since the team is centered on Latias, the idea is to get rid of Latias counters. Even more specifically, making sure that I WILL get rid of it's counters through trapping (as well as many other Pokemon too). As a result, I often wind up playing a very fast style with this team although it feels that I shouldn't necessarily have to. Anyways,
Team at a Glance:
I don't feel like being creative so I'll just use Arkeis pictures now.
The Tanking Counters
Bronzong@Macho Brace
Levitate
252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Sassy
IVs: 0 Speed
>Trick
>Stealth Rock
>Gyro Ball
>Explosion
Bronzong is just a great, reliable lead in general. The only lead he really has problems with is Heatran, and he can still take a Lava Plume (and possibly a Flamethrower; I'm not sure and I'm too lazy to run calcs). I know it lives through a ScarfApe's Overheat from experience as well. He basically sets up Stealth Rock primarily, unless I'm up against Azelf or Aerodactyl who get Gyro Ball'ed first. Trick can be useful, especially against Gyarados who figure out that DD'ing with a Macho Brace still doesn't help too much.
I'm changing my play style with this guy a lot, as I used to play him like a suicide lead and let him die if he got to set up Stealth Rock. Then I started to get pissed off at Mamoswine, and decided that I'd play a lot more conservatively while still keeping up a fast pace. As such, I try to use Explosion only in extreme cases. When my opponent seems wary of it, too (such as using Protect randomly), I wait until there really isn't anything my opponent can do to not get smacked hard by it.
It helps Latias by setting up Stealth Rock, which helps everyone hurt stuff like Latias' counters and aiding in Latias' attacking capabilities. He also keeps Weavile and Mamoswine in check.
Currently Testing over Bronzong:
Jirachi - Choice Scarf
Iron Head
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Stealth Rock
Jolly - 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Hlth
Empoleon@Shed Shell
Torrent
252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Modest
>Hydro Pump
>Ice Beam
>Rest
>Sleep Talk
This guy used to be a RestTalking Machamp, but I decided I should change something after a Kingdra with only one DD swept my entire team. This guy can come in and wall so much stuff with its resistances to Water, Ice, Dragon, and Normal.
I chose to use Hydro Pump over Surf because RestTalk can help preserve Hydro Pump's PP, and that extra oomph can really help against certain foes. I chose to not use Grass Knot as I really do not mind Swampert that much and Latias can generally handle it with ease.
I changed the EVs of the RestTalk set so that a Salamence with 400 Attack (Naughty and 232 EVs) and a Life Orb will never OHKO with an unboosted EarthQuake (even after Stealth Rock). I, however, can OHKO it easily with Ice Beam.
I also chose Shed Shell over Leftovers because Rest works for recovery, and Magnezone will wind up Thunderbolt-ing Dugtrio then getting EQ'ed to death. Dugtrio will wind up EQ-ing Latias (or Bronzong) and then having to switch out.
He helps Latias as he can stop sweeps by Kingra cold, takes status well, and can deal with EQ-less (or Thunderbolt-less) Tyranitar very well.
The Trapping, Offensive Counters
Magnezone@Choice Scarf
Magnet Pull
20 Atk / 236 Spe / 252 SpA
Naive
IVs: 30 Speed / 30 Special Attack
>Thunderbolt
>Hidden Power [Fire]
>Explosion
>Flash Cannon
This guy must be Scizor's best friend. It can just rape it in the ass so that it won't bother my wonderful Latias anymore. It can function against Metagross... but I'd rather have Dugtrio handle that guy. Oh, it also can take care of Empoleon, the annoying Pokemon who walls Latias so handily while Ice Beam-ing it away.
I chose to use Hidden Power Fire because, obviously, it makes Scizor and Forretress exterminating quicker, as well letting me actually hit and do respectable damage to Dugtrio (that doesn't matter as much, as it will nearly always outspeed me) but especially Magnezone who comes in on me after they generally know that I'm Scarfed.
I changed the "standard" Scarf Magnezone set a little, as I didn't see the point in the 20 HP EVs or why I should take away from Explosion's power. I opted for Naive over Hasty as to deal with anything Metagross or Scizor should have to throw at me (and Lucario using something that is NOT a Fighting move).
I basically already described how it helped Latias, in that first paragraph (gets rid of Scizor, Empoleon, and somewhat Metagross).
Currently Testing over this Magnezone:
Leftovers - Timid - Magnet Pull
Thunderbolt
HP Fire
Substitute
Magnet Rise
IVs: 31Hlth, 30Att, 31Def, 30Speed, 30SpAtt, 31SpDef
EVs: 252 SpcAtt, 220 Speed, 36 Hlth.
Dugtrio@Choice Band
Arena Trap
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly
>EarthQuake
>Aerial Ace
>Stone Edge
>Sucker Punch
Another trapping Pokemon that is good at getting rid of some problematic Pokemon for Latias. What I love to do is switch in Latias for free at some point, and then straight away switch to this little guy. More often than not I get a nice free Tyranitar or Metagross KO, as with Stealth Rock this Dugtrio will almost always OHKO Tyranitar (I've yet to lose to one). Of course, the stupid Metagross who just have to carry Bullet Punch piss me off, but that's beside the point. In any case, this guy loves the easy kills Latias can get it.
I decided that I might as well not invest the 40 EVs in HP like in the analysis, just like there is very little use in investing those EVs in HP that the analysis used to recommend. I'm pretty sure that a non-boosted ExtremeSpeed from LO Jolly Lucario still will not OHKO after Stealth Rock damage.
Dugtrio can take care of Tyranitar handily, who is probably Latias' biggest menace. Metagross is a bitch to Latias, too, but Dugtrio can generally take care of it, too.
Tyranitar@Choice Band
Sand Stream
176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Adamant
>Pursuit
>Stone Edge
>Crunch
>Aqua Tail
Hey, I got to be able to deal with Latias too :). This is no longer my general first switch-in to Latias, as many hit just a bit too hard, now don't they? But in any case, Choice Band Tyranitar is a wonderful Pokemon. It is a third trapper, effectively. It's main use is in annihilating Blissey, though, as Stealth Rock + one Sandstorm + switching out from Pursuit + another Stealth Rock = almost always a KO'ed Blissey. Blissey, of course, walls Latias to no end, so in this manner Tyranitar is very useful.
The Central Sweeper
Latias@Choice Specs
Levitate
80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid
>Draco Meteor
>Thunderbolt
>Surf
>Trick/Wish (I REALLY do not want to use this)
Unless the opinion of Latias has changed drastically, I'm sure most people are thinking, "Why the hell would you use Choice Specs Latias?" Well... let's compare it to Choice Specs Salamence. They have the same base Special Attack, and Latias is slightly faster. Latias has better Special Defense, while Salamence has better physical Defense (largely due to Intimidate). Salamence gets to use the more powerful Hydro Pump instead of Surf. Salamence also gets to work with Fire Blast, which gives Salamence basically perfect coverage. However, coverage isn't necesarily as important in a Choice item user as they just try to hit stuff hard with whatever move is necessary. Being Choice Specs users, they both will be switching out a lot. Latias has mainly Pursuit to fear; Salamence has Stealth Rock. Now, which is more common of those two moves?
Draco Meteor is pretty self-explanatory; it just stings on pretty much anything like on SpecsMence. Surf gets a lot of neutrality, like Draco Meteor; Surf can last a while though. Thunderbolt was changed from Grass Knot after being suggested by darknessmalice.
Trick is my last move, and I frankly do not use it much as I don't want Latias to be in on anything that I should have to Trick Specs onto. I've been considering Wish in that spot, as I have wanted some Wish recovery on occasion; but I am afraid of what might happen if someone Tricks something I don't want onto it. I say this because whenever a Jirachi Tricks a Scarf onto Bronzong, I Stealth Rock and then must switch. I usually switch to Latias as it resists Fire Punch and it can Trick away a Macho Brace if need be. Usually Jirachi will just Fire Punch though, so I can just switch back to Bronzong freely.
I use Modest over Timid as I wouldn't keep Latias in on any Gengar, and most Latias I have encountered are not Timid either.
EDIT: I changed to Timid because of TAY's big scary Jolly Salamence. No base 100 Pokemon without a Scarf or boost or something can outspeed my Latias now. I think the power drop shouldn't be too significant, and those HP EVs should help in dealing with Fire Blasts and Close Combats.
In Conclusion, it seems that a lot of the time just playing poorly in general causes me problems. One mistake can be devastating to me, and hence unorthodox sets can cause me problems as I don't know what they will do and therefore allow me to respond appropiately. It seems that I generally need to be in control of the battle with this team. I have a feeling that that could certainly be because I have four Choice Pokemon... yeah.
Of something in particular, a DD Gyarados with DD/Waterfall/EQ/Ice Fang is a big threat as I have to hope it is not the bulky version. I hope it has a Life Orb, so that I can wear it down with Sandstorm, Life Orb recoil, and then one Sucker Punch from Dugtrio. It also is not hard at all for Gyarados to set up. There is also Scarf(Infern)Ape. It outspeeds everything, and it can OHKO everything other than Bronzong I believe (U-turn may not OHKO Latias; there may be a very miniscule chance of Empoleon surviving a Close Combat).
EDIT: As darknessmalice pointed out, it's pretty much any DDer that causes problems (besides Kingdra, or at least most likely). A DDer with Leftovers is just generally bad.
So... please help. I'm too tired to add a threat list right now and I may add one later.
Team at a Glance:
I don't feel like being creative so I'll just use Arkeis pictures now.
The Tanking Counters
Bronzong@Macho Brace
Levitate
252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Sassy
IVs: 0 Speed
>Trick
>Stealth Rock
>Gyro Ball
>Explosion
Bronzong is just a great, reliable lead in general. The only lead he really has problems with is Heatran, and he can still take a Lava Plume (and possibly a Flamethrower; I'm not sure and I'm too lazy to run calcs). I know it lives through a ScarfApe's Overheat from experience as well. He basically sets up Stealth Rock primarily, unless I'm up against Azelf or Aerodactyl who get Gyro Ball'ed first. Trick can be useful, especially against Gyarados who figure out that DD'ing with a Macho Brace still doesn't help too much.
I'm changing my play style with this guy a lot, as I used to play him like a suicide lead and let him die if he got to set up Stealth Rock. Then I started to get pissed off at Mamoswine, and decided that I'd play a lot more conservatively while still keeping up a fast pace. As such, I try to use Explosion only in extreme cases. When my opponent seems wary of it, too (such as using Protect randomly), I wait until there really isn't anything my opponent can do to not get smacked hard by it.
It helps Latias by setting up Stealth Rock, which helps everyone hurt stuff like Latias' counters and aiding in Latias' attacking capabilities. He also keeps Weavile and Mamoswine in check.
Currently Testing over Bronzong:
Jirachi - Choice Scarf
Iron Head
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Stealth Rock
Jolly - 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Hlth
Empoleon@Shed Shell
Torrent
252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Modest
>Hydro Pump
>Ice Beam
>Rest
>Sleep Talk
This guy used to be a RestTalking Machamp, but I decided I should change something after a Kingdra with only one DD swept my entire team. This guy can come in and wall so much stuff with its resistances to Water, Ice, Dragon, and Normal.
I chose to use Hydro Pump over Surf because RestTalk can help preserve Hydro Pump's PP, and that extra oomph can really help against certain foes. I chose to not use Grass Knot as I really do not mind Swampert that much and Latias can generally handle it with ease.
I changed the EVs of the RestTalk set so that a Salamence with 400 Attack (Naughty and 232 EVs) and a Life Orb will never OHKO with an unboosted EarthQuake (even after Stealth Rock). I, however, can OHKO it easily with Ice Beam.
I also chose Shed Shell over Leftovers because Rest works for recovery, and Magnezone will wind up Thunderbolt-ing Dugtrio then getting EQ'ed to death. Dugtrio will wind up EQ-ing Latias (or Bronzong) and then having to switch out.
He helps Latias as he can stop sweeps by Kingra cold, takes status well, and can deal with EQ-less (or Thunderbolt-less) Tyranitar very well.
The Trapping, Offensive Counters
Magnezone@Choice Scarf
Magnet Pull
20 Atk / 236 Spe / 252 SpA
Naive
IVs: 30 Speed / 30 Special Attack
>Thunderbolt
>Hidden Power [Fire]
>Explosion
>Flash Cannon
This guy must be Scizor's best friend. It can just rape it in the ass so that it won't bother my wonderful Latias anymore. It can function against Metagross... but I'd rather have Dugtrio handle that guy. Oh, it also can take care of Empoleon, the annoying Pokemon who walls Latias so handily while Ice Beam-ing it away.
I chose to use Hidden Power Fire because, obviously, it makes Scizor and Forretress exterminating quicker, as well letting me actually hit and do respectable damage to Dugtrio (that doesn't matter as much, as it will nearly always outspeed me) but especially Magnezone who comes in on me after they generally know that I'm Scarfed.
I changed the "standard" Scarf Magnezone set a little, as I didn't see the point in the 20 HP EVs or why I should take away from Explosion's power. I opted for Naive over Hasty as to deal with anything Metagross or Scizor should have to throw at me (and Lucario using something that is NOT a Fighting move).
I basically already described how it helped Latias, in that first paragraph (gets rid of Scizor, Empoleon, and somewhat Metagross).
Currently Testing over this Magnezone:
Leftovers - Timid - Magnet Pull
Thunderbolt
HP Fire
Substitute
Magnet Rise
IVs: 31Hlth, 30Att, 31Def, 30Speed, 30SpAtt, 31SpDef
EVs: 252 SpcAtt, 220 Speed, 36 Hlth.
Dugtrio@Choice Band
Arena Trap
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly
>EarthQuake
>Aerial Ace
>Stone Edge
>Sucker Punch
Another trapping Pokemon that is good at getting rid of some problematic Pokemon for Latias. What I love to do is switch in Latias for free at some point, and then straight away switch to this little guy. More often than not I get a nice free Tyranitar or Metagross KO, as with Stealth Rock this Dugtrio will almost always OHKO Tyranitar (I've yet to lose to one). Of course, the stupid Metagross who just have to carry Bullet Punch piss me off, but that's beside the point. In any case, this guy loves the easy kills Latias can get it.
I decided that I might as well not invest the 40 EVs in HP like in the analysis, just like there is very little use in investing those EVs in HP that the analysis used to recommend. I'm pretty sure that a non-boosted ExtremeSpeed from LO Jolly Lucario still will not OHKO after Stealth Rock damage.
Dugtrio can take care of Tyranitar handily, who is probably Latias' biggest menace. Metagross is a bitch to Latias, too, but Dugtrio can generally take care of it, too.
Tyranitar@Choice Band
Sand Stream
176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Adamant
>Pursuit
>Stone Edge
>Crunch
>Aqua Tail
Hey, I got to be able to deal with Latias too :). This is no longer my general first switch-in to Latias, as many hit just a bit too hard, now don't they? But in any case, Choice Band Tyranitar is a wonderful Pokemon. It is a third trapper, effectively. It's main use is in annihilating Blissey, though, as Stealth Rock + one Sandstorm + switching out from Pursuit + another Stealth Rock = almost always a KO'ed Blissey. Blissey, of course, walls Latias to no end, so in this manner Tyranitar is very useful.
The Central Sweeper
Latias@Choice Specs
Levitate
80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid
>Draco Meteor
>Thunderbolt
>Surf
>Trick/Wish (I REALLY do not want to use this)
Unless the opinion of Latias has changed drastically, I'm sure most people are thinking, "Why the hell would you use Choice Specs Latias?" Well... let's compare it to Choice Specs Salamence. They have the same base Special Attack, and Latias is slightly faster. Latias has better Special Defense, while Salamence has better physical Defense (largely due to Intimidate). Salamence gets to use the more powerful Hydro Pump instead of Surf. Salamence also gets to work with Fire Blast, which gives Salamence basically perfect coverage. However, coverage isn't necesarily as important in a Choice item user as they just try to hit stuff hard with whatever move is necessary. Being Choice Specs users, they both will be switching out a lot. Latias has mainly Pursuit to fear; Salamence has Stealth Rock. Now, which is more common of those two moves?
Draco Meteor is pretty self-explanatory; it just stings on pretty much anything like on SpecsMence. Surf gets a lot of neutrality, like Draco Meteor; Surf can last a while though. Thunderbolt was changed from Grass Knot after being suggested by darknessmalice.
Trick is my last move, and I frankly do not use it much as I don't want Latias to be in on anything that I should have to Trick Specs onto. I've been considering Wish in that spot, as I have wanted some Wish recovery on occasion; but I am afraid of what might happen if someone Tricks something I don't want onto it. I say this because whenever a Jirachi Tricks a Scarf onto Bronzong, I Stealth Rock and then must switch. I usually switch to Latias as it resists Fire Punch and it can Trick away a Macho Brace if need be. Usually Jirachi will just Fire Punch though, so I can just switch back to Bronzong freely.
I use Modest over Timid as I wouldn't keep Latias in on any Gengar, and most Latias I have encountered are not Timid either.
EDIT: I changed to Timid because of TAY's big scary Jolly Salamence. No base 100 Pokemon without a Scarf or boost or something can outspeed my Latias now. I think the power drop shouldn't be too significant, and those HP EVs should help in dealing with Fire Blasts and Close Combats.
In Conclusion, it seems that a lot of the time just playing poorly in general causes me problems. One mistake can be devastating to me, and hence unorthodox sets can cause me problems as I don't know what they will do and therefore allow me to respond appropiately. It seems that I generally need to be in control of the battle with this team. I have a feeling that that could certainly be because I have four Choice Pokemon... yeah.
Of something in particular, a DD Gyarados with DD/Waterfall/EQ/Ice Fang is a big threat as I have to hope it is not the bulky version. I hope it has a Life Orb, so that I can wear it down with Sandstorm, Life Orb recoil, and then one Sucker Punch from Dugtrio. It also is not hard at all for Gyarados to set up. There is also Scarf(Infern)Ape. It outspeeds everything, and it can OHKO everything other than Bronzong I believe (U-turn may not OHKO Latias; there may be a very miniscule chance of Empoleon surviving a Close Combat).
EDIT: As darknessmalice pointed out, it's pretty much any DDer that causes problems (besides Kingdra, or at least most likely). A DDer with Leftovers is just generally bad.
So... please help. I'm too tired to add a threat list right now and I may add one later.
